Guild Wars 2

lets be honest
anet kittened up in nerfing adrenal health, why they didnt just nerf a lil bit that specific trait omfg
no
they kittened up elite spec
kitten i n g r e kitten s

Warlord.9074:

You cannot adapt to these changes with berserk spec, no sustain and no condi cleanse is not adaptable.

By “Adapt”, he meant “Give up everything you found fun to play”

Cross.3482:

what’s even funnier is you completely ignore the valid points these people point out and just go back to your basic “ugh, people complain and kitten.. get on my level and adapt”. many have said pPS was already in a kitten spot and nerfing it even more was uncalled for. people complaining over these nerf doesnt make it less true.

the only reason for the BP change is because of the #sellbreakers new adrenaline kitten and everybody knows it, anet is just a bunch of wusses who cant even say it to our faces.

I haven’t told anyone to “get on my level”, and I don’t see much in the way of valid points here either. People aren’t able to play the same way they’ve gotten used to and get the same results, so they’re losing their marbles over it.

Nerfs are rarely fun, but this emo kid doom and gloom shtick every time they happen (to every class) shows a serious lack of perspective.

As for your belief in a conspiracy to nerf warrior to sell the expansion, it’s not Anet’s style. You see, what they did with HoT was make the new specs super broken so people would feel especially motivated to buy them. Doing it before people have a channel for their outsized rage just doesn’t make sense.

Naw, this looks more like the June 2015 patch when everything was re-adjusted to accommodate the new spec mechanics in anticipation of HoT. People whined then too, some cheered, and then most people remembered they were playing a video game,gained a little perspective, and got back to having fun.

Choppy.4183:

Cross.3482:

what’s even funnier is you completely ignore the valid points these people point out and just go back to your basic “ugh, people complain and kitten.. get on my level and adapt”. many have said pPS was already in a kitten spot and nerfing it even more was uncalled for. people complaining over these nerf doesnt make it less true.

the only reason for the BP change is because of the #sellbreakers new adrenaline kitten and everybody knows it, anet is just a bunch of wusses who cant even say it to our faces.

I haven’t told anyone to “get on my level”, and I don’t see much in the way of valid points here either. People aren’t able to play the same way they’ve gotten used to and get the same results, so they’re losing their marbles over it.

Nerfs are rarely fun, but this emo kid doom and gloom shtick every time they happen (to every class) shows a serious lack of perspective.

As for your belief in a conspiracy to nerf warrior to sell the expansion, it’s not Anet’s style. You see, what they did with HoT was make the new specs super broken so people would feel especially motivated to buy them. Doing it before people have a channel for their outsized rage just doesn’t make sense.

Naw, this looks more like the June 2015 patch when everything was re-adjusted to accommodate the new spec mechanics in anticipation of HoT. People whined then too, some cheered, and then most people remembered they were playing a video game,gained a little perspective, and got back to having fun.

its not just me i can tell you that much.

here is the thing, people get that balancing happen all the time and yeah people adapt to it, but when something already considered to be bottom tier build (power zerk) gets nerfed again (and just so happens it the one thing that #sellbreaker doesnt have) its hard not to think (coz its prolly the truth) that anet is doing this with the intention of bottlenecking people into that new elite spec. else i dont see any reason for something already trash tier to get even more trashing.

sure they will prolly rebalance it in the future but why did it happen in the first place? why did something so mediocre (pre 8/8 patch pPS/p zerk)need to be touched in the first place? #sellbreakers. you have to be blind or just hating so much on complains that you refuse to see this.

p.s. my written english is not that good sorry :p

Nothing wrong with being passionate and speaking your mind.

I play other classes often, and there are other changes I disagree with. But it is this change to primal burst that absolutely needs to be complained about. There’s no gloom and doom, this is customer feedback.

ArenaNet has shown repeatedly that they struggle to balance content, particularly for pvp.

No ESL, No real comp scene, dwindling numbers….

And when they repeat the same mistakes, the people that give them money do two things. They complain, or they leave. I’d rather hold out hope that someone listens. They should be so happy as to have so many people that give a kitten.

Warlord.9074:

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Warlord.9074:

I’m not buying the expansion just because of this and am quiting the game.

Quitting a game over a balance patch? Your loss.

(not even saying it was a good one)

no gain no loss. The only person losing here is you and it will be your time, money. Instead of trying to flame me try thinking long an hard for a more witty response.

dude, that will be a stupid thing to do ahahaha, well listen carefully son.

im an elite warrior player and i can tell that with this patch ive been rocking my warrior regardless and kitten countless ppl but ofc with this patch there r a few classes that r to dificult to fight, for example condi thiefs, condi mesmers and burst mesmer that can actually 1 hit u if u get a surprise attack from them. ofc there r classes that got strong like rev and stuff but whatever, the thing anet is missing or better said forgotten is the fact that warriors DO NOT have invisibility, DO NOT have teleport, DO NOT have invulnerability (inmmune to fisical dmg AND condi dmg AND croud control all at once), DO NOT have acces to protection, etc… all we have is our stances, dodges and health but for me personally the thing that kills warriors the most is how predictable they r, the other player just have to see ur weapons and know what and how ur going to do it… at least i know, so what anet con do is balance other classes, but then again i think is going to be dificult for them… so ur best option would be to wait for expansion BUY IT and hope for the best.

If I were ANet, I’d roll this kitten back or do something like two stacks per primal. It still hurts, but at least it wouldn’t be insulting. The other Idea’s like 3 for traits on the initial burst are almost fair but still pretty harsh as its so predictable to dodge this giant glowing red activation followed by a slow arc divider or decapitate or skull grinder etc. Zerk mode doesn’t last insanely long, and a 33% flat reduction would seem to actually give a trade off between running core or zerk.

If they made the 3 stacks on entry, I would literally just wait out that zerk to pop and know that if I dodge the next big telegraph, they have 0 sustain. I think thats bad game play. Giving a flat reduction to 2 stacks at all times is like “ok, I need to actually watch my kitten around this glowing red kitten because if he keeps landing these big obvious moves he’s gonna have some sustain .”

What I want Anet To understand is that Berserker should feel strong, but if they find it to be TOO strong (and looking at some PvP usage I can’t fully back that claim), this nerf is way way way way way way way too kittening overboard.

Guys now i look into the siuation more and more not only is warrior on a bad spot also the toughness stats are more irrelevant than ever… at this point i sinceraly recomend to quit the game until expansion… there is nothing to do here… once again they killed us i regret what i sadi earlier… and also food changes were TERRIBLE insanly and patheticly TERRIBLE.

Across multiple threads I’m still just not seeing the core of this argument as justified. There’s reason being sprinkled in, but it’s being drown out by angry tantrums.
(At least WvW and PvP wise, I definitely can’t speak to PvE).

You want condi clear and heals – don’t primal burst.
You want burst – primal burst.
You still have sources of resistance and invuln.
SoF and SoR are totally legit sources of adrenaline, damage, and boons.
You’ve been given the ability to might stack for damage and passively heal and gain endurance.
You’ve been given a 900 range, 6k+ source of damage, with an evade frame, and 3 second knockdown.
You’ve been given a 4-5k damage at 900 range with cripple. (both ammo charges of axe 3).
Berserker isn’t destroyed, you just have to adjust around the changes and not rely on headbutt, meme burst, good day sir.

I haven’t tried it, but there appears to be a strong condi build to be had with the changes to Arms. Seeing as how Berserker came with torch, a clear condi weapon, and condi-centric talents, but no strong support from other talent trees this is a nice addition for condizerkers.

Everything certainly isn’t perfect, but the world is far from coming to an end.
Disc, Def, Bers still works fine if you adjust your utils and strategy. Str is now a legit option over at least two of those.

Core warrior wasn’t always just fine, the changes to Str for core warrior are significant. You now have the real option to choose Berserker to supplement a condi or power build through talents and utilities that fits the play style you prefer. You wanna primal burst, it’s gonna cost you some sustain.

Warrior’s place in the meta was never about damage or sustain it was about it’s overall utility to the group. That still hasn’t been fixed, but Spellbreaker is on the way..

Tinnel thats because you don’t know the intricacies of warrior class.

When you are a warrior You are stuck to discipline trait line. Becasue the short CDs of your skills require fast hands for rotations in PVE, and for PVP u are needing warrior sprint and fast hands as well as other traits in there to be competatiove.

If it is PVE that is not a problem because u will take Berserk and another offensive traitline.

But if its PVP or WVW than you are mandatory stuck to taking defense and discipline.

So you take berserker spec that means whenever you are not in zerk you are basically just a weaker or kitten warrior becasue you don’t have str traitline or arms or somthing offensive.

You cannot just tell a warrior then don’t activate berserk becasue without it they are nothing. The condi spam in those game modes is too high and without proper cleanising which CI has never been enough alone you cannot play.

Tinnel.4369:

Across multiple threads I’m still just not seeing the core of this argument as justified. There’s reason being sprinkled in, but it’s being drown out by angry tantrums.
(At least WvW and PvP wise, I definitely can’t speak to PvE).

You want condi clear and heals – don’t primal burst.
You want burst – primal burst.
You still have sources of resistance and invuln.
SoF and SoR are totally legit sources of adrenaline, damage, and boons.
You’ve been given the ability to might stack for damage and passively heal and gain endurance.
You’ve been given a 900 range, 6k+ source of damage, with an evade frame, and 3 second knockdown.
You’ve been given a 4-5k damage at 900 range with cripple. (both ammo charges of axe 3).
Berserker isn’t destroyed, you just have to adjust around the changes and not rely on headbutt, meme burst, good day sir.

I haven’t tried it, but there appears to be a strong condi build to be had with the changes to Arms. Seeing as how Berserker came with torch, a clear condi weapon, and condi-centric talents, but no strong support from other talent trees this is a nice addition for condizerkers.

Everything certainly isn’t perfect, but the world is far from coming to an end.
Disc, Def, Bers still works fine if you adjust your utils and strategy. Str is now a legit option over at least two of those.

Core warrior wasn’t always just fine, the changes to Str for core warrior are significant. You now have the real option to choose Berserker to supplement a condi or power build through talents and utilities that fits the play style you prefer. You wanna primal burst, it’s gonna cost you some sustain.

Warrior’s place in the meta was never about damage or sustain it was about it’s overall utility to the group. That still hasn’t been fixed, but Spellbreaker is on the way..

Condi warrior is excellent in PvE as both PS and DPS. Condi warrior is also okay in sPvP. Spellbreaker is bringing an excellent PvP build.

The core issue I have Is how the new Berserker’s Power was implemented. This is a PvE trait for Power Warrior. The Devs stated the reason for this change was to make it feel good to use a level 1 burst consecutively instead of waiting for level 3 adrenaline. However, 10 seconds is too short a duration to reach 3 stacks of Bersekers Power for more than 1 second, and it’s impossible to even consistently maintain 2 stacks. Either the duration of Berserkers Power needs to be increased or duration needs to be refreshed. Without this change, this is a nerf to Power Berserker; Spellbreaker will have a similar struggle with the trait as is. The stated design intent does not mesh with how it currently functions. That is the problem.

Tinnel.4369:

You want condi clear and heals – don’t primal burst.
At this juncture it is clear that strength is a much better option, both for damage and sustain
You want burst – primal burst.
Larger Tells, Less Damage, and as you mentioned, not worth for sustaining. Strength Hits much Harder with BP, or it hits roughly the same and makes use of MightMakesRight

You still have sources of resistance and invuln.
This is a strawman, it has nothing to do with Berserkers Primal Burst being nerfed,
any mixture of build can use these sources of EP and B. Sance

SoF and SoR are totally legit sources of adrenaline, damage, and boons.
Another blantant strawman, These are useable by core and zerk and don’t tie into the addressed problems with Primal Burst

You’ve been given the ability to might stack for damage and passively heal and gain endurance.
If you run strength, which will always logically replace Berserker. Or you are running a gimmick build and obviously won’t have the current necessities to survive competent players in this meta and power creep

You’ve been given a 900 range, 6k+ source of damage, with an evade frame, and 3 second knockdown.
Another Strawman, and the traited version of Bulls Charge, certainly isn’t in the Berserkers Tree is it? Strength, again, dwarfing the choices for power builds

You’ve been given a 4-5k damage at 900 range with cripple. (both ammo charges of axe 3).
As if you couldn’t refer any more invalid points, you bring up a weapon that is usable by both specs, that has 0 weight on the addressed issue of primal burst

Berserker isn’t destroyed, you just have to adjust around the changes and not rely on headbutt, meme burst, good day sir.
“Adjusting” is playing the build that is not absolutely gutted by poor balancing decision. The arrival is that a player should always take strength if not spell breaker, and the reliance on def and discipline is too pronounced and has been an issue for a long while. Noone will use berserker as power with as much success as running strength for a multitude of reasons. As is agreed upon by so many others, core is pretty good right now, and there is no point in taking berserker for power builds

Everything certainly isn’t perfect, but the world is far from coming to an end.
Disc, Def, Bers still works fine if you adjust your utils and strategy. Str is now a legit option over at least two of those.
Strength is the better option to take over berserker, and not the other two trees because that would create a gimmicky build, one that will be laughed at and not used by anyone with half a brain.

Core warrior wasn’t always just fine, the changes to Str for core warrior are significant. You now have the real option to choose Berserker to supplement a condi or power build through talents and utilities that fits the play style you prefer. You wanna primal burst, it’s gonna cost you some sustain.
At the same time it costs you massive amounts of sustain, it will do far less damage,
be more easy to dodge on your typical melee weapon lay out, and make no sense to take because stacking 21% damage with BP makes infinitely more sense from the strength line while also supplementing sustain and condi removal.

Without contest, this is the most unintelligible defensive position I have seen written for this nerf.

Mikeskies.1536:

Tinnel.4369:

Across multiple threads I’m still just not seeing the core of this argument as justified. There’s reason being sprinkled in, but it’s being drown out by angry tantrums.
(At least WvW and PvP wise, I definitely can’t speak to PvE).

You want condi clear and heals – don’t primal burst.
You want burst – primal burst.
You still have sources of resistance and invuln.
SoF and SoR are totally legit sources of adrenaline, damage, and boons.
You’ve been given the ability to might stack for damage and passively heal and gain endurance.
You’ve been given a 900 range, 6k+ source of damage, with an evade frame, and 3 second knockdown.
You’ve been given a 4-5k damage at 900 range with cripple. (both ammo charges of axe 3).
Berserker isn’t destroyed, you just have to adjust around the changes and not rely on headbutt, meme burst, good day sir.

I haven’t tried it, but there appears to be a strong condi build to be had with the changes to Arms. Seeing as how Berserker came with torch, a clear condi weapon, and condi-centric talents, but no strong support from other talent trees this is a nice addition for condizerkers.

Everything certainly isn’t perfect, but the world is far from coming to an end.
Disc, Def, Bers still works fine if you adjust your utils and strategy. Str is now a legit option over at least two of those.

Core warrior wasn’t always just fine, the changes to Str for core warrior are significant. You now have the real option to choose Berserker to supplement a condi or power build through talents and utilities that fits the play style you prefer. You wanna primal burst, it’s gonna cost you some sustain.

Warrior’s place in the meta was never about damage or sustain it was about it’s overall utility to the group. That still hasn’t been fixed, but Spellbreaker is on the way..

Condi warrior is excellent in PvE as both PS and DPS. Condi warrior is also okay in sPvP. Spellbreaker is bringing an excellent PvP build.

The core issue I have Is how the new Berserker’s Power was implemented. This is a PvE trait for Power Warrior. The Devs stated the reason for this change was to make it feel good to use a level 1 burst consecutively instead of waiting for level 3 adrenaline. However, 10 seconds is too short a duration to reach 3 stacks of Bersekers Power for more than 1 second, and it’s impossible to even consistently maintain 2 stacks. Either the duration of Berserkers Power needs to be increased or duration needs to be refreshed. Without this change, this is a nerf to Power Berserker; Spellbreaker will have a similar struggle with the trait as is. The stated design intent does not mesh with how it currently functions. That is the problem.

Have you not tried SoR? Days of adrenaline for me….

Warlord.9074:

Tinnel thats because you don’t know the intricacies of warrior class.

When you are a warrior You are stuck to discipline trait line. Becasue the short CDs of your skills require fast hands for rotations in PVE, and for PVP u are needing warrior sprint and fast hands as well as other traits in there to be competatiove.

If it is PVE that is not a problem because u will take Berserk and another offensive traitline.

But if its PVP or WVW than you are mandatory stuck to taking defense and discipline.

So you take berserker spec that means whenever you are not in zerk you are basically just a weaker or kitten warrior becasue you don’t have str traitline or arms or somthing offensive.

You cannot just tell a warrior then don’t activate berserk becasue without it they are nothing. The condi spam in those game modes is too high and without proper cleanising which CI has never been enough alone you cannot play.

I understand intricacies just fine. If anything I think the lack of knowledge of intricacies is what’s fueling these cries of devastation. Warriors aren’t nothing without berserk. While lackluster Def, Disc, Tactics was serviceable before. Condi is broken for everyone and warrior still has some of the best options for dealing with it, even with this change.

Tinnel.4369:

Warlord.9074:

Tinnel thats because you don’t know the intricacies of warrior class.

When you are a warrior You are stuck to discipline trait line. Becasue the short CDs of your skills require fast hands for rotations in PVE, and for PVP u are needing warrior sprint and fast hands as well as other traits in there to be competatiove.

If it is PVE that is not a problem because u will take Berserk and another offensive traitline.

But if its PVP or WVW than you are mandatory stuck to taking defense and discipline.

So you take berserker spec that means whenever you are not in zerk you are basically just a weaker or kitten warrior becasue you don’t have str traitline or arms or somthing offensive.

You cannot just tell a warrior then don’t activate berserk becasue without it they are nothing. The condi spam in those game modes is too high and without proper cleanising which CI has never been enough alone you cannot play.

I understand intricacies just fine. If anything I think the lack of knowledge of intricacies is what’s fueling these cries of devastation. Warriors aren’t nothing without berserk. While lackluster Def, Disc, Tactics was serviceable before. Condi is broken for everyone and warrior still has some of the best options for dealing with it, even with this change.

No, this thread is talking specifically about the nerf to the Berserker Elite Spec and even more specifically, Primal Burst receiving a 66% nerf to its trait affecting mechanic.

I don’t know how much more clearly this can be put for you to actually talk about that change and how you could defend that the traited effects of this skill were 66% too strong when this class and spec hasn’t been relevant in high level PvP in quite a while now.

Tinnel.4369:

Mikeskies.1536:

Tinnel.4369:

Across multiple threads I’m still just not seeing the core of this argument as justified. There’s reason being sprinkled in, but it’s being drown out by angry tantrums.
(At least WvW and PvP wise, I definitely can’t speak to PvE).

You want condi clear and heals – don’t primal burst.
You want burst – primal burst.
You still have sources of resistance and invuln.
SoF and SoR are totally legit sources of adrenaline, damage, and boons.
You’ve been given the ability to might stack for damage and passively heal and gain endurance.
You’ve been given a 900 range, 6k+ source of damage, with an evade frame, and 3 second knockdown.
You’ve been given a 4-5k damage at 900 range with cripple. (both ammo charges of axe 3).
Berserker isn’t destroyed, you just have to adjust around the changes and not rely on headbutt, meme burst, good day sir.

I haven’t tried it, but there appears to be a strong condi build to be had with the changes to Arms. Seeing as how Berserker came with torch, a clear condi weapon, and condi-centric talents, but no strong support from other talent trees this is a nice addition for condizerkers.

Everything certainly isn’t perfect, but the world is far from coming to an end.
Disc, Def, Bers still works fine if you adjust your utils and strategy. Str is now a legit option over at least two of those.

Core warrior wasn’t always just fine, the changes to Str for core warrior are significant. You now have the real option to choose Berserker to supplement a condi or power build through talents and utilities that fits the play style you prefer. You wanna primal burst, it’s gonna cost you some sustain.

Warrior’s place in the meta was never about damage or sustain it was about it’s overall utility to the group. That still hasn’t been fixed, but Spellbreaker is on the way..

Condi warrior is excellent in PvE as both PS and DPS. Condi warrior is also okay in sPvP. Spellbreaker is bringing an excellent PvP build.

The core issue I have Is how the new Berserker’s Power was implemented. This is a PvE trait for Power Warrior. The Devs stated the reason for this change was to make it feel good to use a level 1 burst consecutively instead of waiting for level 3 adrenaline. However, 10 seconds is too short a duration to reach 3 stacks of Bersekers Power for more than 1 second, and it’s impossible to even consistently maintain 2 stacks. Either the duration of Berserkers Power needs to be increased or duration needs to be refreshed. Without this change, this is a nerf to Power Berserker; Spellbreaker will have a similar struggle with the trait as is. The stated design intent does not mesh with how it currently functions. That is the problem.

Have you not tried SoR? Days of adrenaline for me….

The issue isn’t adrenaline. You can’t primal burst or level 1 burst fast enough due to cool downs to maintain 3 stacks.

CrashTheGrey.1492:

Tinnel.4369:

You want condi clear and heals – don’t primal burst.
At this juncture it is clear that strength is a much better option, both for damage and sustain
You want burst – primal burst.
Larger Tells, Less Damage, and as you mentioned, not worth for sustaining. Strength Hits much Harder with BP, or it hits roughly the same and makes use of MightMakesRight

You still have sources of resistance and invuln.
This is a strawman, it has nothing to do with Berserkers Primal Burst being nerfed,
any mixture of build can use these sources of EP and B. Sance

SoF and SoR are totally legit sources of adrenaline, damage, and boons.
Another blantant strawman, These are useable by core and zerk and don’t tie into the addressed problems with Primal Burst

You’ve been given the ability to might stack for damage and passively heal and gain endurance.
If you run strength, which will always logically replace Berserker. Or you are running a gimmick build and obviously won’t have the current necessities to survive competent players in this meta and power creep

You’ve been given a 900 range, 6k+ source of damage, with an evade frame, and 3 second knockdown.
Another Strawman, and the traited version of Bulls Charge, certainly isn’t in the Berserkers Tree is it? Strength, again, dwarfing the choices for power builds

You’ve been given a 4-5k damage at 900 range with cripple. (both ammo charges of axe 3).
As if you couldn’t refer any more invalid points, you bring up a weapon that is usable by both specs, that has 0 weight on the addressed issue of primal burst

Berserker isn’t destroyed, you just have to adjust around the changes and not rely on headbutt, meme burst, good day sir.
“Adjusting” is playing the build that is not absolutely gutted by poor balancing decision. The arrival is that a player should always take strength if not spell breaker, and the reliance on def and discipline is too pronounced and has been an issue for a long while. Noone will use berserker as power with as much success as running strength for a multitude of reasons. As is agreed upon by so many others, core is pretty good right now, and there is no point in taking berserker for power builds

Everything certainly isn’t perfect, but the world is far from coming to an end.
Disc, Def, Bers still works fine if you adjust your utils and strategy. Str is now a legit option over at least two of those.
Strength is the better option to take over berserker, and not the other two trees because that would create a gimmicky build, one that will be laughed at and not used by anyone with half a brain.

Core warrior wasn’t always just fine, the changes to Str for core warrior are significant. You now have the real option to choose Berserker to supplement a condi or power build through talents and utilities that fits the play style you prefer. You wanna primal burst, it’s gonna cost you some sustain.
At the same time it costs you massive amounts of sustain, it will do far less damage,
be more easy to dodge on your typical melee weapon lay out, and make no sense to take because stacking 21% damage with BP makes infinitely more sense from the strength line while also supplementing sustain and condi removal.

Without contest, this is the most unintelligible defensive position I have seen written for this nerf.

It’s not at all clear that Strength is a much better option for damage and sustain. Berserk still maintains access to Savage Instinct, Blood Reaction, Dead or Alive, Bloody Roar, and Eternal Champion. Tier 1, 2, and 3 bursts ~hit the same and ~clear the same.

The rest of what you’ve surmised here is that warrior is indeed not destroyed, you just have to unerstand that if you take Berserker you have to choose between burst and sustain situationally.

Mikeskies.1536:

Tinnel.4369:

Mikeskies.1536:

Tinnel.4369:

Across multiple threads I’m still just not seeing the core of this argument as justified. There’s reason being sprinkled in, but it’s being drown out by angry tantrums.
(At least WvW and PvP wise, I definitely can’t speak to PvE).

You want condi clear and heals – don’t primal burst.
You want burst – primal burst.
You still have sources of resistance and invuln.
SoF and SoR are totally legit sources of adrenaline, damage, and boons.
You’ve been given the ability to might stack for damage and passively heal and gain endurance.
You’ve been given a 900 range, 6k+ source of damage, with an evade frame, and 3 second knockdown.
You’ve been given a 4-5k damage at 900 range with cripple. (both ammo charges of axe 3).
Berserker isn’t destroyed, you just have to adjust around the changes and not rely on headbutt, meme burst, good day sir.

I haven’t tried it, but there appears to be a strong condi build to be had with the changes to Arms. Seeing as how Berserker came with torch, a clear condi weapon, and condi-centric talents, but no strong support from other talent trees this is a nice addition for condizerkers.

Everything certainly isn’t perfect, but the world is far from coming to an end.
Disc, Def, Bers still works fine if you adjust your utils and strategy. Str is now a legit option over at least two of those.

Core warrior wasn’t always just fine, the changes to Str for core warrior are significant. You now have the real option to choose Berserker to supplement a condi or power build through talents and utilities that fits the play style you prefer. You wanna primal burst, it’s gonna cost you some sustain.

Warrior’s place in the meta was never about damage or sustain it was about it’s overall utility to the group. That still hasn’t been fixed, but Spellbreaker is on the way..

Condi warrior is excellent in PvE as both PS and DPS. Condi warrior is also okay in sPvP. Spellbreaker is bringing an excellent PvP build.

The core issue I have Is how the new Berserker’s Power was implemented. This is a PvE trait for Power Warrior. The Devs stated the reason for this change was to make it feel good to use a level 1 burst consecutively instead of waiting for level 3 adrenaline. However, 10 seconds is too short a duration to reach 3 stacks of Bersekers Power for more than 1 second, and it’s impossible to even consistently maintain 2 stacks. Either the duration of Berserkers Power needs to be increased or duration needs to be refreshed. Without this change, this is a nerf to Power Berserker; Spellbreaker will have a similar struggle with the trait as is. The stated design intent does not mesh with how it currently functions. That is the problem.

Have you not tried SoR? Days of adrenaline for me….

The issue isn’t adrenaline. You can’t primal burst or level 1 burst fast enough due to cool downs to maintain 3 stacks.

This is true, I’m essentially waiting on the CD just to use 2+ preventing the use of just 1 or 2.

Do I need to dig up the team rosters for any high level tournament in the last long while?

You will notice that Warrior is completely missing.

People that understand #intricacies much more than most in this thread refuse to play this class, and one of the elite specs that was actually giving power some viability in lower level play just got nothing but a 66% nerf to its kittening class specific mechanic in multiple facets.

Now if we try really hard we can make the distinction that Strength got some positive changes, while Berserker ONLY got negative changes from where it was prior (in a not competitive state).

Bear with me dude, but would that not make BERSERKER as an elite spec even LESS viable? Can you arrive at this, that only nerfs were levied at an already underperforming spec in PvP?

There is no argument to be had as this nerf was executed without any concessions to the elite spec that got hit, an elite spec that was already not good against anyone who can read a tell and the entire competitive scene.

7.5k views, everyone saying essentially the same thing, and ANET still has nothing to say about it…

Apolo.5942:

7.5k views, everyone saying essentially the same thing, and ANET still has nothing to say about it…

last time they were in a thread was last year on the warrior sub

since then though this is the thread with the most views on the sub

Just make activating Berserk count as using a burst…. It requires 3 adren to activate, consumes those adren, should be treated as spending 3 adren on a burst imo. Leave everything else as is.

Tinnel.4369:

CrashTheGrey.1492:

Tinnel.4369:

You want condi clear and heals – don’t primal burst.
At this juncture it is clear that strength is a much better option, both for damage and sustain
You want burst – primal burst.
Larger Tells, Less Damage, and as you mentioned, not worth for sustaining. Strength Hits much Harder with BP, or it hits roughly the same and makes use of MightMakesRight

You still have sources of resistance and invuln.
This is a strawman, it has nothing to do with Berserkers Primal Burst being nerfed,
any mixture of build can use these sources of EP and B. Sance

SoF and SoR are totally legit sources of adrenaline, damage, and boons.
Another blantant strawman, These are useable by core and zerk and don’t tie into the addressed problems with Primal Burst

You’ve been given the ability to might stack for damage and passively heal and gain endurance.
If you run strength, which will always logically replace Berserker. Or you are running a gimmick build and obviously won’t have the current necessities to survive competent players in this meta and power creep

You’ve been given a 900 range, 6k+ source of damage, with an evade frame, and 3 second knockdown.
Another Strawman, and the traited version of Bulls Charge, certainly isn’t in the Berserkers Tree is it? Strength, again, dwarfing the choices for power builds

You’ve been given a 4-5k damage at 900 range with cripple. (both ammo charges of axe 3).
As if you couldn’t refer any more invalid points, you bring up a weapon that is usable by both specs, that has 0 weight on the addressed issue of primal burst

Berserker isn’t destroyed, you just have to adjust around the changes and not rely on headbutt, meme burst, good day sir.
“Adjusting” is playing the build that is not absolutely gutted by poor balancing decision. The arrival is that a player should always take strength if not spell breaker, and the reliance on def and discipline is too pronounced and has been an issue for a long while. Noone will use berserker as power with as much success as running strength for a multitude of reasons. As is agreed upon by so many others, core is pretty good right now, and there is no point in taking berserker for power builds

Everything certainly isn’t perfect, but the world is far from coming to an end.
Disc, Def, Bers still works fine if you adjust your utils and strategy. Str is now a legit option over at least two of those.
Strength is the better option to take over berserker, and not the other two trees because that would create a gimmicky build, one that will be laughed at and not used by anyone with half a brain.

Core warrior wasn’t always just fine, the changes to Str for core warrior are significant. You now have the real option to choose Berserker to supplement a condi or power build through talents and utilities that fits the play style you prefer. You wanna primal burst, it’s gonna cost you some sustain.
At the same time it costs you massive amounts of sustain, it will do far less damage,
be more easy to dodge on your typical melee weapon lay out, and make no sense to take because stacking 21% damage with BP makes infinitely more sense from the strength line while also supplementing sustain and condi removal.

Without contest, this is the most unintelligible defensive position I have seen written for this nerf.

It’s not at all clear that Strength is a much better option for damage and sustain. Berserk still maintains access to Savage Instinct, Blood Reaction, Dead or Alive, Bloody Roar, and Eternal Champion. Tier 1, 2, and 3 bursts ~hit the same and ~clear the same.

The rest of what you’ve surmised here is that warrior is indeed not destroyed, you just have to unerstand that if you take Berserker you have to choose between burst and sustain situationally.

If I take Strength, My burst skills do far more damage. They do not hit the same. Berserkers Power…. just not even close. That is not something you can argue.

While you can make an argument for the condi clear on savage instict, I urge you to take that over smash brawler, because that’s a kittening joke. Now we’re gimping one of the saving graces of these enormous cast time, giant flaming telegraphed attacks; the rate at which you pump them out. Relative to other class burst, oh boy is this trait necessary against someone that’s already taking a kitten on all of your stun attempts which are highly telegraphed.

Not only is it a horrible play feel without smash brawler, but it was necessary to even start to pressure the power creep of so many classes in this game, especially in regards to blocks and evade spam.

As I have confirmed with Obindo, you’d be mostly kittened to take anything besides eternal champ against an experienced opponent. The GM traits here are pretty good, but god kitten why would I take 10% and a small taunt over 21% kittening damage on strength? Or even the crazy ass might stacking heal/endurance synergy on Strength?

Oh wait, noone who is “adapting” is touching this elite with a 10 foot pole unless they want to kitten themselves for bragging rights. It’s a whole lot of core warrior and nothing else.

CrashTheGrey.1492:

Do I need to dig up the team rosters for any high level tournament in the last long while?
I actually would like to see this, both as evidence of your next statement and to perturb your condescending tone and see if you’ll follow through.

You will notice that Warrior is completely missing.

People that understand #intricacies much more than most in this thread refuse to play this class, and one of the elite specs that was actually giving power some viability in lower level play just got nothing but a 66% nerf to its kittening class specific mechanic in multiple facets.
No argument that reasons to play warrior have lacked, doesn’t mean some people can and do play it, functionally. These reasons are, however, extend well beyond primal burst. The change didn’t occur in a vacuum around primal burst, it’s relative to everything else.

Now if we try really hard we can make the distinction that Strength got some positive changes, while Berserker ONLY got negative changes from where it was prior (in a not competitive state).
Agreed, but this doesn’t constitute gutted, destroyed, forcing me to buy the expansion, etc. There remain many options to play power and even Berserker functionally. We can disagree all day, proof is in the pudding as they say and anecdotal evidence has no legs from either side. I just see the results I see and disagree.

Bear with me dude, but would that not make BERSERKER as an elite spec even LESS viable? Can you arrive at this, that only nerfs were levied at an already underperforming spec in PvP?
Again, it didn’t happen in a vacuum. It’s relative, the tests of which certainly haven’t been fleshed out over night or even in a few days, we’re not even in a PvP season currently.

There is no argument to be had as this nerf was executed without any concessions to the elite spec that got hit, an elite spec that was already not good against anyone who can read a tell and the entire competitive scene.
Broadly invalidating arguments does not, by virtue, invalidate arguments. Mere speculation that there was zero concession. I refer again to the vacuum comment. If you were already disgusted with the class and are now further disgusted what is it you’re after?

Warrior’s not perfect, no class is, either play the class or don’t, either play the game or don’t. Rage, threats, accusations, and speculation aren’t likely to get any results.

I can’t believe this is still going and anet hasn’t replied or give their dam reason. Because most of us here aren’t kittening satisfied with their current reasoning behind the nerf. It’s like saying they want to make trains go faster, but instead of expanding the limiter or durability of the rails to support speed and/or the aerodynamics of the train, you nerf the acceleration of the train. You go backwards with no clear good reason except saying that you want to make train go faster.

This isn’t about core warrior so people needs to stop bringing that up. This thread is just about the unnecessary nerf to primal burst being level 1 to berserker’s power and no way to sustain a 3 stacks without alacrity and even then the window for the 3 stacks is too dam small. Core warrior has always been there, and only mentioned because that’s what power warriors can only go for if they want to deal as much damage as possible.

For pve, i mainly open world or fractals, i will never touch raids because i’m too lazy to find a good raid team and commit time but that’s besides the point. I never ran a defense trait line and I relied on my ability to dodge key attacks and the healing signet to sustain while having the kill before you are killed mindset. Because of this, only a few content in open worlds are difficult for me because i can only have so many blocks and so many condi removals. Now the unreasonable nerf to berserker’s primal burst to level 1, I can’t do that anymore. I literally have to ‘almost’ or berserk twice to do something i normally would with going in one berserk mode. Because they nerfed the power damage to high heaven and gave nothing back in return.
Open world I ran str-discipline-berserker, I traded slow movement speed and a bunch of other adrenaline gains and small bleeds/some vulnerable stacks for faster movement speed and fast hands. Go slower, deal more damage, go faster deal less damage but more fluid gameplay.

In wvw I always stuck to core warrior using str-def-discipline. I can see berserker traitline being used. Again I would trade discipline for berserker trait if I opted to go with berserker, but I do not. I mostly play within the zerg. I still use as much sustains as I can but most of the sustains are given by rev’s resistance and guardian’s stabs. Running a PVT armor set as well with berserker’s stat accessories/rings/ammy. It’s not the meta build but all I plan to do for my zerg is to stun and other CCs in the frontline. So that’s where the need for defense comes in.

That’s where I stand as a warrior main. All my gear is either assassin’s or berserker’s in open world. I run as glassy as possible to maintain that mindset. However like I’ve said in my previous post, I had to switch to core warrior just to keep that mindset going. I miss using headbutt to instantly go into berserk. I miss arc divider so bad because its mainly my finisher move. But the amonut of damage I do using berserk’s arc divider and had to “ramp up” … I feels like I have a 24/7 weakness debuff and it always proccs glancing.

TL;DR Most of us just want anet’s clear explanation, not this stupid quiet they’ve been pulling for warriors. They gave a reasonable explanation for the arc divider (at least more reasonable than this primal burst nerf)
And stop comparing core warriors and berserker warriors. Core warrior has its place but this is ONLY about the changes to primal burst. because that kitten is nerfing our “amount” of adrenaline skills badly when I think its not suppose to.

Tinnel.4369:

CrashTheGrey.1492:

Do I need to dig up the team rosters for any high level tournament in the last long while?
I actually would like to see this, both as evidence of your next statement and to perturb your condescending tone and see if you’ll follow through.

You will notice that Warrior is completely missing.

People that understand #intricacies much more than most in this thread refuse to play this class, and one of the elite specs that was actually giving power some viability in lower level play just got nothing but a 66% nerf to its kittening class specific mechanic in multiple facets.
No argument that reasons to play warrior have lacked, doesn’t mean some people can and do play it, functionally. These reasons are, however, extend well beyond primal burst. The change didn’t occur in a vacuum around primal burst, it’s relative to everything else.

Now if we try really hard we can make the distinction that Strength got some positive changes, while Berserker ONLY got negative changes from where it was prior (in a not competitive state).
Agreed, but this doesn’t constitute gutted, destroyed, forcing me to buy the expansion, etc. There remain many options to play power and even Berserker functionally. We can disagree all day, proof is in the pudding as they say and anecdotal evidence has no legs from either side. I just see the results I see and disagree.

Bear with me dude, but would that not make BERSERKER as an elite spec even LESS viable? Can you arrive at this, that only nerfs were levied at an already underperforming spec in PvP?
Again, it didn’t happen in a vacuum. It’s relative, the tests of which certainly haven’t been fleshed out over night or even in a few days, we’re not even in a PvP season currently.

There is no argument to be had as this nerf was executed without any concessions to the elite spec that got hit, an elite spec that was already not good against anyone who can read a tell and the entire competitive scene.
Broadly invalidating arguments does not, by virtue, invalidate arguments. Mere speculation that there was zero concession. I refer again to the vacuum comment. If you were already disgusted with the class and are now further disgusted what is it you’re after?

Warrior’s not perfect, no class is, either play the class or don’t, either play the game or don’t. Rage, threats, accusations, and speculation aren’t likely to get any results.

Rank 55 Dragons – Thief, Ele, Engi, Mesmer, Necro
Show Dominance – Ranger, Mesmer, Rev, Ele, Necro
Struikenduiken – Engi, Ele, Mesmer, Necro, Thief

Top 3 teams class presence:
Mesmer – 3/3
Elementalist – 3/3
Necromancer – 3/3
Engineer – 2/3
Thief – 2/3
Revenant – 1/3
Ranger – 1/3
Warrior – 0/3
Guardian – 0/3

This is a small sample, you’re not worth digging up more.

I see that you are living in a world with power warrior build diversity, a lovely world where ArenaNet had the foresight not to power creep an insane amount with HoT and mandate trait lines.

Here is the reality of the “Vacuum” you’re denying exists:

SPECS 1 AND 2: Defense, Discipline. Too strong, too integral, too useful for PvP to give up with or without the current changes. If anything they were only made stronger and more flexible within. (E.G. Axe Mastery).

SPEC 3: Berserker/Spellbreaker/Strength. Berserker and Spellbreaker being physically locked, and Strength locked because Anet has not given another genuine approach to getting rid of the aforementioned. Don’t argue with me though, argue with the years of established optimization. (For Clarity, the Def/Disc might be movable for spellbreaker, but they are not for strength and berserker).

In your lovely carebear world of false build diversity, I’m glad you can agree with having kitten forced down your throat to find “functional” builds. Some of us would like to hold people accountable so things improve.

[/quote]

Some of us would like to hold people accountable so things improve.

[/quote]

Keep us posted on how that works out, everyone else will still be in game.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. I’d also say nearly 8000+ views later with hundreds of responses, that less input has caused change. (Please refer to the SPvP Icons which will be reverted after a couple threads popped up).

A true warrior masters all weapons, including the mighty keyboard. #MLGesus give me strength

Keep bending over and taking it.

Warrior is just bad right now. I like how they made core warrior stronger, but you needed beserker to be competitive and it wasn’t competitive vs equal skilled players before.

I’m profoundly disappointed by these changes. We’re once again in the gutter. Top tier changes Anet. Top tier.

CrashTheGrey.1492:

This is insane. Probably the most shameless “buy the expansion or perish” they could have pulled.

Yeah well kittenem and kitten spellbreaker, Imma roll core warrior. \m/

The worst part is that nobody is paying attention to us… they killed it so they can sell theyr expansion… is a really sad strategy from them… but im so kitten kittened at this point.

kodesh.2851:

CrashTheGrey.1492:

This is insane. Probably the most shameless “buy the expansion or perish” they could have pulled.

Yeah well kittenem and kitten spellbreaker, Imma roll core warrior. \m/

But you realize, they changed Berserkers Power to accommodate Spellbreaker, but then made it impossible for Spellbreaker and Berserker to maintain 3 stacks of Berserkrs Power. Cooldowns on burst skills make it impossible when the duration of berserkers power is only 10 seconds.

Mikeskies.1536:

But you realize, they changed Berserkers Power to accommodate Spellbreaker, but then made it impossible for Spellbreaker and Berserker to maintain 3 stacks of Berserkrs Power. Cooldowns on burst skills make it impossible when the duration of berserkers power is only 10 seconds.

It remains to be seen, but I don’t think Spellbreaker will have much difficulty maintaining 3 stacks of BP due to the minor trait Attacker’s Insight. Especially so if Counters end up counting as a burst as far as BP, AH, and CI go.

Choppy.4183:

Mikeskies.1536:

But you realize, they changed Berserkers Power to accommodate Spellbreaker, but then made it impossible for Spellbreaker and Berserker to maintain 3 stacks of Berserkrs Power. Cooldowns on burst skills make it impossible when the duration of berserkers power is only 10 seconds.

It remains to be seen, but I don’t think Spellbreaker will have much difficulty maintaining 3 stacks of BP due to the minor trait Attacker’s Insight. Especially so if Counters end up counting as a burst as far as BP, AH, and CI go.

Yes, Spellbreaker will have a much better time of it. Both the F1 burst and the F2 Counters count as bursts. You can see it on BogOtter’s video. It’s only Berserker spec that is left in the dust.

perko.8309:

Choppy.4183:

Mikeskies.1536:

But you realize, they changed Berserkers Power to accommodate Spellbreaker, but then made it impossible for Spellbreaker and Berserker to maintain 3 stacks of Berserkrs Power. Cooldowns on burst skills make it impossible when the duration of berserkers power is only 10 seconds.

It remains to be seen, but I don’t think Spellbreaker will have much difficulty maintaining 3 stacks of BP due to the minor trait Attacker’s Insight. Especially so if Counters end up counting as a burst as far as BP, AH, and CI go.

Yes, Spellbreaker will have a much better time of it. Both the F1 burst and the F2 Counters count as bursts. You can see it on BogOtter’s video. It’s only Berserker spec that is left in the dust.

That’s good, but I think 10 seconds may still be too short. Only testing will tell.

Mikeskies.1536:

That’s good, but I think 10 seconds may still be too short. Only testing will tell.

It would go like this:

1. Charge up 20 adren
2. Burst
3. Counter the very next hit
4. Burst as soon as you have another 10 adren (because the Burst CD is refreshed by the Counter)

It could all happen within the course of a couple of seconds from the first burst, seeing as even just swapping weapons (if you have Disc) will take you half way to the third burst.

And you can just keep doing that over and over, adding new stacks with each Burst and/or Counter.

perko.8309:

Choppy.4183:

Mikeskies.1536:

But you realize, they changed Berserkers Power to accommodate Spellbreaker, but then made it impossible for Spellbreaker and Berserker to maintain 3 stacks of Berserkrs Power. Cooldowns on burst skills make it impossible when the duration of berserkers power is only 10 seconds.

It remains to be seen, but I don’t think Spellbreaker will have much difficulty maintaining 3 stacks of BP due to the minor trait Attacker’s Insight. Especially so if Counters end up counting as a burst as far as BP, AH, and CI go.

Yes, Spellbreaker will have a much better time of it. Both the F1 burst and the F2 Counters count as bursts. You can see it on BogOtter’s video. It’s only Berserker spec that is left in the dust.

To achieve parity, I could definitely see Berserk mode F2 applying 2 stacks since once you use it, using the Primal Burst gives 1 stack and bottoms out your adrenaline. I could also see changes made to put more emphasis on Berserk Mode itself to hammer home its gimmick. Giving more bonuses while in Berserk mode (choosing which bonuses via the traits) seems like it’s the right thing to do to separate each spec.

Leo G.4501:

To achieve parity, I could definitely see Berserk mode F2 applying 2 stacks since once you use it, using the Primal Burst gives 1 stack and bottoms out your adrenaline. I could also see changes made to put more emphasis on Berserk Mode itself to hammer home its gimmick. Giving more bonuses while in Berserk mode (choosing which bonuses via the traits) seems like it’s the right thing to do to separate each spec.

Yeah, I see any of those as possible paths for a likely fix. I predict that they will emphasize Berserk Mode, and that they’ll give it a little love as time goes on so that people see a reason to use it again.

i went back to core war using Axe-mastery and Duel whealding at once adren builds up and, you can pump out three bar bursts fast.

Many can deal right now cause the tank of many other classes was nerfed (in wvsw at least). But when PoF hits, were gonna inevitably see another power AND tank creep. Expect dreary times ahead for these changes.

Castleguard.2498:

Just make activating Berserk count as using a burst…. It requires 3 adren to activate, consumes those adren, should be treated as spending 3 adren on a burst imo. Leave everything else as is.

Let activating berserk count as a single t1 burst. Then all ur primal bursts following that count as t1 as well. And make primal burts and berserk stack towards that 21% (like they said it should). People generally always get 2 primals out of their berserk mode minimum….so hitting 21% would be eez.

I think thats a more than fair compromise. Ur spending 3 tiers of adrenaline….so you ‘getting’ to that 21% while in berserker should be almost guaranteed after a small windup.

Cerby.1069:

Many can deal right now cause the tank of many other classes was nerfed (in wvsw at least). But when PoF hits, were gonna inevitably see another power AND tank creep. Expect dreary times ahead for these changes.

Castleguard.2498:

Just make activating Berserk count as using a burst…. It requires 3 adren to activate, consumes those adren, should be treated as spending 3 adren on a burst imo. Leave everything else as is.

Let activating berserk count as a single t1 burst. Then all ur primal bursts following that count as t1 as well. And make primal burts and berserk stack towards that 21% (like they said it should). People generally always get 2 primals out of their berserk mode minimum….so hitting 21% would be eez.

I think thats a more than fair compromise. Ur spending 3 tiers of adrenaline….so you ‘getting’ to that 21% while in berserker should be almost guaranteed after a small windup.

But those changes don’t solve the problem. Maintaining 3 stacks of berserker power is not currently possible unless you do a level 3 burst. Even if you can get to 3 rather quickly, 10 seconds is a short amount of time. Further, the Devs stated the change was to encourage power warriors to use level 1 bursts, then changed primal bursts to level 1 bursts. The implementation of the reworked trait failed to put pve power warriors back into the spot they were before the change: maintaining 20% increased damage for duration of fight. The change nerfs pve power warriors, when they are already behind pve condi warriors. The ramp up isn’t a problem. The 10 second duration is just too short.

Besides, even if you could rotate through weapons and burst, something you cant neither mathematically or realistically do in combat.
It would further increase the button mashing on a game that already has a kitten ton of button mashing.
You would not switch weapons because it is the strategic thing to do, but because you hace to keyboard dance to stay alive and do damage. kitten design if there ever was one.

Hello ArenaNet.

Input?

Yes Anet.. would gladly love to hear why this huge unnecessary nerf was required to keep this under-performing spec in well perfect balanced to what it was already capable of?

Almost 10k views and Anet won’t even respond…or did they?

noc noc, anet? still there?.

Just wanted to celebrate 10,000+ views, giving a huge shout out at the homies who destroyed this elite spec for Power, probably because elite spec Tradeoff’s don’t sell expansions.

A special mention to the guy that had to admit that they were so wildly bad at game balance that a fundamental class skill needed a 66% Nerf to its trait-ed effects in light of a new power based elite spec. Bravo.

Also wanted to remind you of all your failures in taking a game that has viable potential for Esports and fun competitive play; fast, active and streamlined PvP in an MMO setting not reliant on the trinity of old…..

I want to remind you that you had all these tools and you failed. ESL dropped this crap, whats left of the “pro” scene seems to mock your decision making at every single turn…

And you thought that the least used class in high level play needed to have its small bit of viability reduced further. You are by far the most disappointing balance team I’ve seen in any title.

I suppose there’s nowhere but up to go!

Just about as many posts as the post for guardians complaining about their loot stick, yet we’ve got allot more views. Also Anet won’t post that’d be them admitting they were wrong.

it’s obv they just want everyone to be using viper’s stat, more expansion sales.