Guild Wars 2

juno.1840:

The current warrior balance is required to counter the condition meta. I didn’t see these complaints about warrior before condi necros became so good. In fact warriors were generally free badges in WvW until everything moved to conditions. If power becomes the meta, then warriors will be low on the stick again.

I run mesmer and the condition builds eat me up (unless I have all my condi removal on c/d, and sometimes not even then). However I never lose to a warrior (even with HS, stuns, and HB).

That’s how rock-paper-scissors works — and it applies to 1v1. GW2 is probably in the best state it’s ever been with hard counters between professions and builds (similar to GW1).

If you run conditions, expect to be owned by a properly built power warrior in 1v1 — deal with it or change your build.

Do you run staff on your mesmer when facing warrior? a probably yes answer….
Do you think you would be able to outlast the war without the number 2 “teleport” skill of staff ? a probably no answer….

You doing decent against wars for 2 reasons:
- having the most stunbreakers/ distance keeping skills
- beeing ranged and spawning AI clones to do damage.

Now imagine what a closecombat or a ranged character(without that many stunbreaks) have to deal with against a warrior.
If they make a 1 mistake good chance they gone die.
If the war does almost everything wrong, good chance he still will be winning.

Void.4239:

Do you run staff on your mesmer when facing warrior? a probably yes answer….
Do you think you would be able to outlast the war without the number 2 “teleport” skill of staff ? a probably no answer….

You doing decent against wars for 2 reasons:
- having the most stunbreakers/ distance keeping skills
- beeing ranged and spawning AI clones to do damage.

Now imagine what a closecombat or a ranged character(without that many stunbreaks) have to deal with against a warrior.
If they make a 1 mistake good chance they gone die.
If the war does almost everything wrong, good chance he still will be winning.

You have this wrong. I don’t use staff to kill anything — it requires too heavy an investment into conditions to be useful in actually killing something. It’s mostly a defensive weapon used until your skills are off of cooldown. I run GS + scepter/X. Yes I have a stun break (blink), but so does everyone else (if you don’t bring one then don’t complain when you eat a HB). Sometimes I take two SBs, but generally just one because I need condition removal too. A Mesmer has a similar number of stun breaks as every other profession. Go count them on the wiki if you don’t believe me.

If a mesmer was a pure staff-condition mesmer, he’d get eaten by the Mace/GS warrior that’s called OP.

Regardless I think you’re mostly supporting my point which is builds have hard counters. A specific Mesmer build (power+GS) can counter a Warrior — just as I said that a specific Warrior build (Mace+GS) can counter a condi-mancer.

juno.1840:

Void.4239:

Do you run staff on your mesmer when facing warrior? a probably yes answer….
Do you think you would be able to outlast the war without the number 2 “teleport” skill of staff ? a probably no answer….

You doing decent against wars for 2 reasons:
- having the most stunbreakers/ distance keeping skills
- beeing ranged and spawning AI clones to do damage.

Now imagine what a closecombat or a ranged character(without that many stunbreaks) have to deal with against a warrior.
If they make a 1 mistake good chance they gone die.
If the war does almost everything wrong, good chance he still will be winning.

You have this wrong. I don’t use staff to kill anything — it requires too heavy an investment into conditions to be useful in actually killing something. It’s mostly a defensive weapon used until your skills are off of cooldown. I run GS + scepter/X. Yes I have a stun break (blink), but so does everyone else (if you don’t bring one then don’t complain when you eat a HB). Sometimes I take two SBs, but generally just one because I need condition removal too. A Mesmer has a similar number of stun breaks as every other profession. Go count them on the wiki if you don’t believe me.

If a mesmer was a pure staff-condition mesmer, he’d get eaten by the Mace/GS warrior that’s called OP.

Regardless I think you’re mostly supporting my point which is builds have hard counters. A specific Mesmer build (power+GS) can counter a Warrior — just as I said that a specific Warrior build (Mace+GS) can counter a condi-mancer.

scepter is condition weapon….. so you chose a power build with scepter and GS, enough said about that ….

and yeah the warriors can counter a condi mancer , but also +-80% of the other character builds to…… condi or power/crit builds .

trust me mesmers dont feel what a war can do, as much as other professions do .
you creat chaos with clones and attack from ranged against a warrior, that is best scenario there is against a warrior. And i bet it is still a hard fight.

Variety will REALLY hurt warriors.

Right now most of us are built for taking down condition specs, when they buff power back a bit up we will won’t be able to spec for both condition and power defense.

I usually destroy Warriors by going both power/condition damage hybrid

Void.4239:

JETWING.2759:

Void.4239:

JETWING.2759:

No one looks that warrior is a single and permanent target.
- No have minions.
- No have invul.
- No have stealth.
- No have teleport.
- No have blind spamm.
- No have combo fields.
- No have easy access to protection, retaliation and aegis.
- No have good heal.

This. Nerf healing signet and destroy warrior.

- endure pain , beserker stance ( sort of invuln.)

- 1skill kills, ( who needs minions when you hit everything down in 1-3 skills)

- stun aoe chains, ( its better then blind/ protection/ retaliation or aegis)

- 2 times the healing a thief has ( should other closecombat characters get a boost to healing then ?)

- movement skills that stun/or dps targets on low coolodowns + good swiffness uptime ( gs )

- and dont forget the stat advantage a heavy armor character already has. ( more toughness for free )

put it on par with the other closecombat characters , or boost the other closecombat characters .

- Endure Pain and Zerk Stance are ridiculous. Compare with Blurred Frenzy or anothers skills that provides true invulnerability for more uptime and with less cd.

- 200 extra toughness not compare with protection, stealth, invul, perma evade, teleport spamm, minions (not, they aren’t one hit kill).

- Stun AoE where? Hammer?, on of most weak weapon of warrior. One skill that requires full adrenaline to grants 2s stun. Not compare with CC spam that others classes have.

- 2x Thief heal?
Thief heal when hits. Thief heal while in stealth. Thief heal when use iniciative. Thief heals when bleeding. Thief heals when uses shadow refuge. Thief heal when breath. Thief heals with each action.

I got the strange feeling you dont pvp that much
Maybe you should try out pvp because no1 is talking about pve……….

sure you dont have top invuln uptime / you dont have top evade& stealth skills

- strong stun chains
- top healing you can have 700heals/second
- high swiffness uptime
- best damage output
- good damage mitigation ( atm can bunker almost better then guards , thanks to the healing )

and you have that while in full glasscanon spec……….

every other character type in glasscanon spec dies in 2-3 hits, cause they had to sacrifice alot to get good damage.

Yes

I don’t have time to play very much (PvP, WvW and PvE), but my build can burst condition and raw dmg simultaneously. I am successful against every class, exept Mesmers, against who i haven’t minimal chance

I am not the best, but also i am not the worse
Ha! I never use Zerk or Endure Pain

Void.4239:

scepter is condition weapon….. so you chose a power build with scepter and GS, enough said about that ….

Actually scepter is a hybrid weapon if you check the coefficients… one of the reasons it’s not very popular. However if your play style is ranged, and you want an offhand like focus or pistol, then you have no choice but to pick scepter.

If it makes you feel good, keep tossing out jabs, but it’s not relevant to the conversation.

Funny thing I’m going to ask. Do you really want access to protection, Vigor and maybe a block or two more on your warrior? Then cut your base HP about maybe 5k-6.5kk, and lower damage coefficients a bit, then I will agree for Warriors to get access to all those boons and defenses.

Psybunny.8906:

Want that “OP” warr dead?

Here you go, reroll your fotm neccys/rangers to bursters:

• S/D&D/P thief
  http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY4alYmSO3eS4E/5Ex2jeKUeqVgmdP4q8tKA-TwAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNKYVwmipFA
  (Can deal with “imba” warr 1v1 and is still overall a strong spec against every other profession in teamfights. You can also run S/D or S/P with sbow and have the same results, 30 in trickery builds work pretty ok also.)

• S/F burst ele is very strong against hammer/lbow warrs, should have no trouble against it. Same spec as usual S/D burster.

Want to survive on a neccy? Grab spectral walk, wurm, lyssa runes and stab on DS, you’ll still push out decent damage and don’t get facerolled in that 8 seconds that zerk stance lasts since you don’t bother to carry a stunbreak.

“But I’m an engineer, I need my kits, I can’t grab a stunbreak.” – NO! Be less lazy and play defensively like the rest of us! >:/

Brought to you by AdaptToMeta™.

don’t forget the ultimate warrior killer → mesmer

Lighter.5631:

Psybunny.8906:

Want that “OP” warr dead?

Here you go, reroll your fotm neccys/rangers to bursters:

• S/D&D/P thief
  http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY4alYmSO3eS4E/5Ex2jeKUeqVgmdP4q8tKA-TwAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNKYVwmipFA
  (Can deal with “imba” warr 1v1 and is still overall a strong spec against every other profession in teamfights. You can also run S/D or S/P with sbow and have the same results, 30 in trickery builds work pretty ok also.)

• S/F burst ele is very strong against hammer/lbow warrs, should have no trouble against it. Same spec as usual S/D burster.

Want to survive on a neccy? Grab spectral walk, wurm, lyssa runes and stab on DS, you’ll still push out decent damage and don’t get facerolled in that 8 seconds that zerk stance lasts since you don’t bother to carry a stunbreak.

“But I’m an engineer, I need my kits, I can’t grab a stunbreak.” – NO! Be less lazy and play defensively like the rest of us! >:/

Brought to you by AdaptToMeta™.

don’t forget the ultimate warrior killer -> mesmer

How can you even say that? Mesmers kill everything, not, not just Warriors :/ and mesmers kill other mesmers is normally how it goes.

Lucentfir.7430:

Lighter.5631:

don’t forget the ultimate warrior killer -> mesmer

How can you even say that? Mesmers kill everything, not, not just Warriors :/ and mesmers kill other mesmers is normally how it goes.

No not true in the current meta. Power mesmers are chewed up by heavy condition builds. I’ll assume you were just being funny or something.

It’s funny that peoples are talking about nerf when we just got out of the bottom and starting to be viable in some area. Ok sigil of paral might be strong but IMO the issue is more with HB. If you use it with other weapons it’s a lot more balanced. Healing signet is really great and get the job done without being OP. It might look incredible as of right now but it has an horrible scaling… IMO It just show that the other heals need some tweaks… As of right now warr need more buff/tweaks to be on equal ground with the balanced class. (You know right under necromancers.)

Why should Warrior be op? Ok, the Mace/Shield + GS noob build is too strong, but the other builds? Most of them are easy to kill, but good Players who can play a Warrior are nice fights. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. Only GS Warrior can escape, bersercer stance is a nice skill, but not op, and healing signet is well balanced. I don’t see the Problem.

I only talk about WvWvW.

juno.1840:

Lucentfir.7430:

Lighter.5631:

don’t forget the ultimate warrior killer -> mesmer

How can you even say that? Mesmers kill everything, not, not just Warriors :/ and mesmers kill other mesmers is normally how it goes.

No not true in the current meta. Power mesmers are chewed up by heavy condition builds. I’ll assume you were just being funny or something.

I should have made myself clear, I’m talking in a 1v1 sense, not Spvp/Team play environment. I’ve seen good mesmers in 1v1’s in WvW duel areas, they pretty much wreck face against most of the classes. Spvp is just lolzy right now only people there are Condi mobs of condi spammers. Spvp for warriors, atm they wreck necros because they can’t hold their load in for 8 seconds and they lack mobility/stability. Engis lack stability but they can kite pretty well, until they get stunned and wrecked. Now that I think about it, in order to even compete with the amount of Condi spamming in this meta you have to invest a crap ton in condition removal and even then it’s not enough. All other classes have to sacrifice stats and damage to be even able to compete.

Atherakhia.4086:

Warriors are very similar to Thieves where they are a fairly weak class overall but have a few very overpowered mechanics that mask their weaknesses.

There’s no way a Warrior should be able to heal 1k a second while maintaining insanely high condition damage and 30k hp. That’s absurd. But it’s the way things are. It’s much worse in WvW.

Healing Signet is insanely overpowered. <1.5 second activation time for 3.3k heal which is a easy to interrupt or b just pointless as most times youll lose the health you seek to gain.
Stun duration is insanely overpowered. mainly due to the sigil this one I give you
Warrior Regen is insanely overpowered. <warrior’s signet of healing I’ve covered adrenal health is also NOT over powered keep in mind it take adrenaline to power it which is depleted on use of a burst skill or must be built through battle or a skill.
Burn is insanely overpowered. < warrior have 2 burn skills which aer you talking about skill combustion shot which requires skill to use effectively or the 2 skill on the long bow that applies a burn for 1 second unless your at close range then it’s 3 in which case neither is op.

Might stacking is insanely overpowered. < only the greatsword trait
45k hp is insanely overpowered. not really since the only way you would acchive this is through HIGH investment in vitality infact my warrior is not even half this.

This really can’t be disputed and all need to be nerfed. And yes, we all acknowledge that the Warrior would be bottom tier when all this goes down. But until these types of things are brought into line the class will never improve.

you are wrong my good sir

Hate to tell you this, but this game will never be balanced around 1v1. That’s why there is tpvp and spvp. It’s based on groups, never 1v1.

Having said that, I’m really against hard counter builds all round. It pigeon holds people into a certain play style and build/gear. Soft counter is where it should be at. Immunities should be removed entirely. Zerker stance should be 75%. My skill playing the class and reading others should be the reason why I down a player, not simple one use win skills.

But that requires a huge change to how conditions work and are applied. Condi cleanses should make you immune to the condition removed for 3 seconds, cleanses should be specific eg signet if stamina should remove conditions that bog the class down like chill, immobilise, cripple. Only certain classes should have mass condition cleanse, and even then, it should be a one second skill for everyone in it, not 5 seconds. Should be a decision that requires good coordination.

KarlusDavius.1024:

Hate to tell you this, but this game will never be balanced around 1v1. That’s why there is tpvp and spvp. It’s based on groups, never 1v1.

Having said that, I’m really against hard counter builds all round. It pigeon holds people into a certain play style and build/gear. Soft counter is where it should be at. Immunities should be removed entirely. Zerker stance should be 75%. My skill playing the class and reading others should be the reason why I down a player, not simple one use win skills.

But that requires a huge change to how conditions work and are applied. Condi cleanses should make you immune to the condition removed for 3 seconds, cleanses should be specific eg signet if stamina should remove conditions that bog the class down like chill, immobilise, cripple. Only certain classes should have mass condition cleanse, and even then, it should be a one second skill for everyone in it, not 5 seconds. Should be a decision that requires good coordination.

Soft counter hardly ever end up working well. Rock-Paper-Scissors balance, meaning that everything has some sort of hard counter, ensures that even if something gets overbuffed there’s probably still something in the game that can beakitten To me the idea team setups would be: A condition user like Necro or Ranger (I don’t want them made worthless), a Warrior (another class could be built to do this as well) to hunt the condi user, a Mesmer or Thief to hunt the Warrior, and a Guardian (hopefully someday a Ele) as a Bunker. The last slot would be up to the team, what they pick can decide what the team focuses on and can lead to a variety of strategies. This would make it so that it comes down to who does their job the best and which team has the best communication.

Buffing other classes to fill a role on a team is much healthier than upsetting people by nerfing their class. Zerker Stance is a skill with a brief up time and if you just stay out of their reach for the duration and not waste your skills it’s not that bad. All your changes to how cleanses work would probably require a massive overhaul that I doubt ANet would want to do.

What I do agree with you on is that the game will not, and should not be balanced around 1v1. If your primary form of PvP is team based then balancing around duels doesn’t make any sense.

I really dont understand why ppl QQ about crack-100b combo , signet heal ,and stability?
everything can be countered by other classes,not counting pathetic ele ,

and as far as i know EVERY class has excess 2 sigil of nullification to debuf and sigil on swap for poison for 5sec to render that signet.

When they fix para sigil wr need bufing not nerfing ,
especialy warhorn since its only weapon in game that does 0(zero) dmg i think

deda.8302:

When they fix para sigil wr need bufing not nerfing ,
especialy warhorn since its only weapon in game that does 0(zero) dmg i think

Except it is extremely useful to groups because of the Vigor and cleanses it can provide.

Ouro.5846:

deda.8302:

When they fix para sigil wr need bufing not nerfing ,
especially war-horn since its only weapon in game that does 0(zero) dmg i think

Except it is extremely useful to groups because of the Vigor and cleanses it can provide.

so it is rager WH and lots of other OH weapons that give buffs and debufs but they still do some dmg at least on one skill…
ranger wh ahs buff – high dmg adn blast finisher and is extremely useful in groups

deda.8302:

Ouro.5846:

deda.8302:

When they fix para sigil wr need bufing not nerfing ,
especially war-horn since its only weapon in game that does 0(zero) dmg i think

Except it is extremely useful to groups because of the Vigor and cleanses it can provide.

so it is rager WH and lots of other OH weapons that give buffs and debufs but they still do some dmg at least on one skill…
ranger wh ahs buff – high dmg adn blast finisher and is extremely useful in groups

….Ranger’s Warhorn is toss up because it’s actually more harmful then good when you hit someone with retaliation(not that it’s even doing anything anymore) so you get hit for 16x, and you lose that damage when you get obstructed.Warrior’s Warhorn 4 Charge removes movement impairments in a AoE, and Warhorn 5 inflicts weakness on enemies and gives vigor AoE. traited warhorn converts conditions to boons, and Warhorn 5 is also a blast finisher. Warhorn is a utility weapon for pretty much all classes that have access to them : |