Guild Wars 2

Medazolam.3058:

So from the looks of it about 2 people in this thread think AR is a problem? not gonna get the dev attention, time to move on, this is a non-issue

Yeah, right.
Just because this thread has been assaulted by a bunch of engineer-biased players it doesn’t mean that only 2 people think it is an issue.

Just look:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Automated-Response-Hate/first#post2450346

It’s like “guys, someone has said that probably AR is too stupid! Let’s assault the thread saying how wrong they are! So devs will think the community does not agree and we can still enjoy our 100% no-brainer immunity-from-conditions trait!”

This is sad, really.

Ouch… That thread…

That thread is one guy claiming he hates this trait because “My grenade barrage doesn’t insta kill people!”
Once again it’s not that this trait doesn’t have counter play. It just doesn’t have the counter play that people here want. (My conditions don’t rolfstomp every bunker I come across QQ!)
Melee specs like guards and warrs (one person can attest to it here) do not have a problem thanks to the leaps and movement skills by warriors and well binding blade easily deals with anyone trying to run from a guard. This has turned into three people vehemently claiming something is OP while every other person that has posted in all of these 230+ responses has said the trait is fine.

I think immunity to conditions as a trait is not ok. They should change it to 30-50% shorter condition duration when below 50% health.

jportell.2197:

That thread is one guy claiming he hates this trait because “My grenade barrage doesn’t insta kill people!”
Once again it’s not that this trait doesn’t have counter play. It just doesn’t have the counter play that people here want. (My conditions don’t rolfstomp every bunker I come across QQ!)
Melee specs like guards and warrs (one person can attest to it here) do not have a problem thanks to the leaps and movement skills by warriors and well binding blade easily deals with anyone trying to run from a guard. This has turned into three people vehemently claiming something is OP while every other person that has posted in all of these 230+ responses has said the trait is fine.

No man.
You have ignored every point people are trying to make here and pretending everyone says AR is too stupid should be a condi Necro player that want to faceroll everyone.
Well, just read the topic again and you’ll realize that you’re wrong.

Notice which people are doing their best to defend the skill. Then see how many of them have posted in the thread I’ve linked.

It has always been like that when discussing about balance. People biased towards the questioned profession come in mass to defend the skill/trait, bringing the usual poor agruments and fictional drawbacks of the skill.

nakoda.4213:

no, you have ignored everything.

the SKILL required for AR isn’t from having to push a button, it is from trying to stay BELOW 25% health WHILE staying alive IN THE FACE OF EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT A CONDITION.

Perhaps you have forgotten that there is more to this game than just conditions? June 25 did not change the game to Condition Wars 2, despite popular opinion. You know why?

Because AR counters conditions. And has done so since launch. It hasn’t changed.

The current state of “immunity” is a bug, because the way Grackle describes it of reducing condies with more than 100% duration (ie 133% dura necro bleed ought to drop to 33%) is how is is supposed to work. The skill actually got nerfed in the last patch.

Maybe your butt stings too much still for you to listen to that though?

But you, you ignore the advice of EVERYONE in this thread.

If you are on a team, in a tournament, and you are a necro who is assaulting a bunker engineer who is running AR, AND YOU ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO THROW YOUR BURST DOWN AS YOUR OPENER AND NOT BE SMART AND SAVE IT then that engineer is in a position of frenetic cleansing and healing; only so far as to remain underneath the 25% HP mark.

HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO STAY BELOW 25% HP BEFORE … ON PURPOSE?

Maybe you should, and then come back and discuss this trait.

Regardless, going back to the example WHERE YOU ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO BLOW YOUR LOAD BEFORE THE FUN STARTS, then you ought to be able to tell your team mate who isn’t a condition user to come and burn this engi down.

Or maybe that engi kills you the first time. You tell your team, “hey that bunker engie has AR, come help me neut that point.”

or are you complaining about being beaten up in the playground of hotjoin?

because if that is the case, you are even worse a player than this thread suggests. An engineer with AR in zergjoin will be spending most of her time running away.

This trait involves the a selection process that also cripples the engineer because 30 points in to the alchemy line takes away the actual functionality of the engineer.

Unlike other classes, THE ENGINEER DOES NOT BENEFIT FROM 30/30/10 BUILDS but rather 20/20/30 or 20/20/20/10 with the exception of some builds like HGH-nades … WHICH CANNOT RUN AR BECAUSE HGH AND AR ARE IN THE SAME SLOT.

An AR engie running Elixir Infused Bombs also has zero power, crit, or damage ability other than a few skills meant to put pressure on an attacker.

Have you ever played a bunker? Have you ever fought a bunker before?

What is the role of the bunker? The role of a bunker is to protect a point and not die while doing it.

So if a bunker engi takes AR and you come along tossing out conditions like a loose dog marking territory through an alley, you are going to get your leash yanked and your muzzle smacked like the ill behaved mutt that you are.

She isn’t going to die to your stupid maneuver of beating your condition drugged head against a wall, and she will be victorious, and you will continue to be the scrub who has no ability to adapt or ovecome.

Learn to play this game.

Nice rant, angry kid.
Still, in you forgot to address the main issue everyone here is pointing out: the permanent immunity, regardless how much do you have to invest in.

Why do engineer have 100% immunity to conditions which is, regardless what you think, one of the 2 main types of damage AND control AND snare in this game?
Why don’t they have a condition removals, instead of a stupid nonsense automated immunity?

Why don’t we give 100% permanent direct damage immunity to Warriors when they are under 25% health, then? It would be even less worse, since you can still snare, control (as a Necromancer, fear IS the only CC), reduce their damage output and endurance regen via weakness, reduce their heal effectiveness and pretty much everything you can do with conditions.

Because, guess what, some professions are specificly designed to have their strenght through conditions, damaging and non-damaging ones. Giving 100% immunity to any profession to something which is the only strenght of some profession is a nonsense, regardless which is the setting and what you have to invest to get that.

@Nakoda.4213 We have been over this before. Melee power builds can’t catch the engineer. This rules out the majority of power builds and their effectiveness. Not to mention the protection and weakness the engineer can use to make power useless.

you didn’t read a thing i said.

@cellulite:

if a bunker engi with AR is running away from the point to avoid being burst by the melee assisting a condi burst class, and melee cannot catch her, the point is clear for you to cap.

job done, move on.

try playing as a team.

nakoda.4213:

you didn’t read a thing i said.

@cellulite:

if a bunker engi with AR is running away from the point and melee cannot catch her, the point is clear for you to cap.

job done, move on.

If the engineer runs on the edge of a point they can still kite melee damage.

if an engi is on the point and you cant hit her with a melee attack, something is wrong with you.

all you have to do on every point except graveyard is stand relatively in the middle and turn around while the engie runs around you and you will hit her. you don’t have to move far,

if you are letting that bunker engi kite you, that bunker is doing her job. you have failed.

learn to play.

Zelulose.8695:

nakoda.4213:

you didn’t read a thing i said.

@cellulite:

if a bunker engi with AR is running away from the point and melee cannot catch her, the point is clear for you to cap.

job done, move on.

If the engineer runs on the edge of a point they can still kite melee damage.

I’ve tried to explain this to them, if you don’t have videoproof of obvious things then they won’t listen. Obviously this isn’t the cast or as much of an issue for hammer/mace warriors because stuns bypass it, but just about any other non stun-chaining melee gets totally screwed.

Honestly if you have swiftness and no cripple, and with easy timing, running through a melee warrior will cause him to almost constantly miss you. Just keep him turning around and run back and forth right to his back side.

It’s not worth arguing about anymore. They gave us all the information we need… “This is the CORNERSTONE OF OUR BUILD” “doesn’t need nerfed”. It’s pretty obvious they just don’t want their trait nerfed because it single handedly is a build-trait all of its own… If you ask me, that’s pretty ridiculous, no trait should be so powerful that you base an entire build around it to ignore 100% of what an enemy can do at times. Check this out.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defy_Pain_
“But its a GRAND MASTER TRAIT, boo hoo. Guess who Doesn’t have sustain? Warriors. Guess who has the same kitten thing but for power damage. Warriors. Guess what the difference is:
You can still be fully cced, condition damage (the most unmitigatable damage) goes through, it lasts 4 seconds, has a 60 second cooldown, and is a Grand Master in a tree that’s also “not that powerful otherwise”. Now imagine:

Defy Pain: Under 20% (because it’s a warrior, so chill your HIGHER HP POOL QQ) warriors are immune to power damage and cannot be CCed via chill, cripple, immobilize and fear. You tell me how many people would be kitten ed. Hint: A lot.

In this thread: engi are omnipotent beings with every trait and utility in any situation while the opponents aren’t able to do a single thing.

Nakoda, just avoid wasting your time trying to argue with these people. It is useless. They are here just to whine hoping devs will nerf it so they can continue facerolling people with ease.

Sure, ignore the entire post about Defy Pain and the vast difference.
I have PERSONALLY made a build that can have perma vigor/swiftness, immune to conditions under 25%, good healing, high protection uptime etc.

nakoda.4213:

you didn’t read a thing i said.

I admit it was hard to get something worth reading from that jumble of insults, anger and arrogance.

Yet, I’ve not seen an explanation on why permanent 100% immunity from conditions is balanced in some way, regardless what you have to do to get that.

Keep in mind: I’m not asking you how to deal with AR, just in case you didn’t realized it yet.

Have any of you actually played as an engi with AR?

You make it sound like once AR pops it’s all sunshine and rainbows from here on out.

No it’s not.

When playing with AR you have to be concious of:

1. The existing conditions that are on you. They will still tick despite the “immunity” to new condi’s.

2. The amount of condi cleanse you have when AR pops. If you cleanse the condi’s that are on you and heal up you will probably not be able to cleanse the next batch of condis that will be thrown at you and die regardless of your “immunity”.

3. You are not immune to burst/sustained damage. You have to be wary of other opposing players (especially thieves) in the area if you choose to sit around at 25% health. Also condi classes can still deliver decent base damage meaning you can’t just sit back and relax. With 25% health you are at the brink of death.

4. Engineers do not have no where near the best condition removal in the game. Engi condi removal is based on rng and utilities with various mid cooldowns. In other words it’s not too reliable.

5. AR is a trait that does allow skillful play with the above mentioned. When
AR pops it becomes a high stakes game of pressure and coordination. AR is not a surefire solution to deal with condis. It only presents the class an oppurtunity. Not to mention that the engi knows that they’re risking the fight with a gamble (fitting of the class/being at 25% health for an extended period of time is no joke). Your role as the condition opponent is too force/fool the engi to play his hand before he needs to.
#saveyourburst
#pokerface

6. It’s a GRANDMASTER TRAIT. A 30 point investment is build defining. You are all acting as if it’s an adept trait that activates at 50% health. It has also been nerfed already and can be bypassed nothing left to see here.

If you STILL want a change to AR. Lower AR to a grandmaster minor trait and make it a buff that lasts 5 secs when at 25% health with an internal cooldown. Replace it with something awesome.

Its balanced by its susceptibility to direct damage more importantly to people running skills/traits/runes that benifit from bonuses against X% more damage against targets under X% health. These things are also useless against a warr running defy pain where as they aren’t useless against an engi with AR

sorrow.2364:

nakoda.4213:

you didn’t read a thing i said.

I admit it was hard to get something worth reading from that jumble of insults, anger and arrogance.

Yet, I’ve not seen why permanent 100% immunity from conditions is balanced in some way.
Keep in mind: I’m not asking you how to deal with AR, just in case you didn’t realized it yet.

because it ISNT 100% immunity.

it USED TO BE, and they changed it.

the “report” in game of “immunity” over the engies head is a BUG, as is the reduction of >100% condies to 0%.

AR was nerfed in the last patch because Anet knew that it would be a hard counter to the new condi meta. the notion that they screwed it up and didn’t do that properly ought not be a surprise to you.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defy_Pain_
Grand Master, please read it.

nakoda.4213:

because it ISNT 100% immunity.

it USED TO BE, and they changed it.

the “report” in game of “immunity” over the engies head is a BUG, as is the reduction of >100% condies to 0%.

AR was nerfed in the last patch because Anet knew that it would be a hard counter to the new condi meta. the notion that they screwed it up and didn’t do that properly ought not be a surprise to you.

So, what is the difference between “immunity to newly applied conditions” and “conditions applied lasts 0 seconds”?

ronpierce.2760:

Sure, ignore the entire post about Defy Pain and the vast difference.

Sure, ignore the damage capabilities of a warrior traited kitten and the difference between those traits.
Even with AR, you still have to heal conditions or you would die anyway; that means you’ll have to spec in both toughness (to stay alive below 25% hp) and vitality (to have a decent treshhold to stay alive in).
Other builds die too fast, because their effective hp pool below that treshhold is too small to survive.

That immune, instead, would be instant – you can avoid entirely getting blocks and such things. They would just spec into vitality and then into offensive stats – cause there is no need for toughness in that case.

ronpierce.2760:

I have PERSONALLY made a build that can have perma vigor/swiftness, immune to conditions under 25%, good healing, high protection uptime etc.

And it doesn’t do anything else. How many traits related to offense can you get this way? Kits are heavily trait-dependant. You’ve spent at least 50 points for the things you’ve written about. No regen on kits. No elixir-infused bombs. No traited elixirs. No bonus damage on flamethrower and elixir gun. And you plan to run, so you won’t use the tool kit as well.
It works just for theorycrafting.
And it assume the opponent is a terribly incompetent player that is just running after you.

Oh, and “high protection uptime” is a blatant lie. You would have it if and only if you get disabled every 5 seconds. Cause there is no skill that reliably gives it in the engineer’s compartment.

Manuhell.2759:

ronpierce.2760:

Sure, ignore the entire post about Defy Pain and the vast difference.

Sure, ignore the damage capabilities of a warrior traited kitten and the difference between those traits.
Even with AR, you still have to heal conditions or you would die anyway; that means you’ll have to spec in both toughness (to stay alive below 25% hp) and vitality (to have a decent treshhold to stay alive in).
Other builds die too fast, because their effective hp pool below that treshhold is too small to survive.

That immune, instead, would be instant – you can avoid entirely getting blocks and such things. They would just spec into vitality and then into offensive stats – cause there is no need for toughness in that case.

What kind of argument is this?
If you take AR, you have 300 vitality by default.

Also, you makes it looks like picking a Soldier amulet is too hard to do.

ronpierce.2760:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defy_Pain_
Grand Master, please read it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

I can play this game too.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Response

now, if you will note the difference:

endure pain means “take no damage from incoming attacks” for up to 5 seconds, and can actually be activated at will if the endure pain utility is slotted and on the bar.

Defy Pain is like “Self Regulating Defenses” far more than it is like Automated Response.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Self-Regulating_Defenses

ar is protection from the application of new conditions below 25% hp. it does not make you immune to the damage of existing condis, it does not make you immune to any other attacks. only new condis.

a ranger auto attacking an AR engi below 25% hp will kill the engie.

if you are having problems facing an AR engie, your team comp and personal playstyle need to be addressed.

AR does not.

sorrow.2364:

Manuhell.2759:

ronpierce.2760:

Sure, ignore the entire post about Defy Pain and the vast difference.

Sure, ignore the damage capabilities of a warrior traited kitten and the difference between those traits.
Even with AR, you still have to heal conditions or you would die anyway; that means you’ll have to spec in both toughness (to stay alive below 25% hp) and vitality (to have a decent treshhold to stay alive in).
Other builds die too fast, because their effective hp pool below that treshhold is too small to survive.

That immune, instead, would be instant – you can avoid entirely getting blocks and such things. They would just spec into vitality and then into offensive stats – cause there is no need for toughness in that case.

What kind of argument is this?
If you take AR, you have 300 vitality by default.

Also, you makes it looks like picking a Soldier amulet is too hard to do.

yep, which brings the engie HP pool up to about 17k, because you aren’t going to be taking full vita gear as a bunker, you will be in power tough healing gear.

Manuhell.2759:

ronpierce.2760:

Sure, ignore the entire post about Defy Pain and the vast difference.

Sure, ignore the damage capabilities of a warrior traited kitten and the difference between those traits.
Even with AR, you still have to heal conditions or you would die anyway; that means you’ll have to spec in both toughness (to stay alive below 25% hp) and vitality (to have a decent treshhold to stay alive in).
Other builds die too fast, because their effective hp pool below that treshhold is too small to survive.

That immune, instead, would be instant – you can avoid entirely getting blocks and such things. They would just spec into vitality and then into offensive stats – cause there is no need for toughness in that case.

ronpierce.2760:

I have PERSONALLY made a build that can have perma vigor/swiftness, immune to conditions under 25%, good healing, high protection uptime etc.

And it doesn’t do anything else. How many traits related to offense can you get this way? Kits are heavily trait-dependant. You’ve spent at least 50 points for the things you’ve written about. No regen on kits. No elixir-infused bombs. No traited elixirs. No bonus damage on flamethrower and elixir gun. And you plan to run, so you won’t use the tool kit as well.
It works just for theorycrafting.
And it assume the opponent is a terribly incompetent player that is just running after you.

Oh, and “high protection uptime” is a blatant lie. You would have it if and only if you get disabled every 5 seconds. Cause there is no skill that reliably gives it in the engineer’s compartment.

My apologies, “how much into offense”? I was referring to bunkers, and I forgot that Engis are SUPPOSED to be able to kill someone attacking them while bunking but everyone else “has to call for help”.

sorrow.2364:

nakoda.4213:

because it ISNT 100% immunity.

it USED TO BE, and they changed it.

the “report” in game of “immunity” over the engies head is a BUG, as is the reduction of >100% condies to 0%.

AR was nerfed in the last patch because Anet knew that it would be a hard counter to the new condi meta. the notion that they screwed it up and didn’t do that properly ought not be a surprise to you.

So, what is the difference between “immunity to newly applied conditions” and “conditions applied lasts 0 seconds”?

really?

immunity = immunity

the poor wording of the trait makes it sound as though it fully reduces the duration of conditions.

it is meant to subtract “100%” duration (ie the base duration before buffs), thus, you could still potentially get a tick of bleed or burning off.

yes, that is bugged right now and you see “immune” in game.

sorrow.2364:

What kind of argument is this?
If you take AR, you have 300 vitality by default.

3000 hp. We have to fight below 25% hp. That means, we’ll actually use only 750 of those.
We need vit because we already know we’ll use only a quarter of it. We need toughness because with a quarter of health the direct damage you get otherwise would be too big.

sorrow.2364:

Also, you makes it looks like picking a Soldier amulet is too hard to do.

It isn’t hard to do…but you hit like a wet noodle. Fine, for a bunker that just has to stay alive. Not fine for someone with a time limit – that is, what you want for the trait.

also, keep in mind, that a SINGLE heal from even our weakest heal (a bandage) while we are within the 20-25% HP range will push us ABOVE 25% and you can condi again.

and no AR engi will take medkit anyway because it has a single condi clear every 20 seconds. they will take healing turret, which a drop’n’pop will heal for almost 7k, the initial drop alone heals for 3k.

Oops, no more AR, condi burst .. dead.

so, THINK before you come on the forums and throw a tantrum.

nakoda.4213:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

I can play this game too.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Response

now, if you will not the difference:

endure pain means “take no damage from incoming attacks” for up to 5 seconds, and can actually be activated at will if the endure pain utility is slotted and on the bar.

Defy Pain is like “Self Regulating Defenses” far more than it is like Automated Response.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Self-Regulating_Defenses

ar is protection from the application of new conditions below 25% hp. it does not make you immune to the damage of existing condis, it does not make you immune to any other attacks. only new condis.

a ranger auto attacking an AR engi below 25% hp will kill the engie.

if you are having problems facing an AR engie, your team comp and personal playstyle need to be addressed.

AR does not.

You’re right.
Ronpierce is wrong.
Those kittens are exclusive to engineer, how can he dare to compare it to a similiar immunity trait of warrior?

nakoda.4213:

yep, which brings the engie HP pool up to about 17k, because you aren’t going to be taking full vita gear as a bunker, you will be in power tough healing gear.

Yep, engineers take full healing power gear.
Just to make Elixir-Infused bombs heal for 100hp more?

Manuhell.2759:

It isn’t hard to do…but you hit like a wet noodle. Fine, for a bunker that just has to stay alive. Not fine for someone with a time limit – that is, what you want for the trait.

Did you know that Soldier amulet has power as main stat?

no, you fool.

they take healing gear for the stacking of regen from backpack regenrator, healing mist, and for increased heals on super elixir and healing turret.

your arguments seem to be coming from the place engies were in back in feb/march.

when was the last time you played this game?

did you just come back to play your FOTM necro and find out that even though you are OP to everyone else, you still have to work to win?

tool.

furthermore, why the hell SHOULD every profession have abilities that work exactly the same way?

what would be the point of having multiple professions to play?

nakoda.4213:

no, you fool.

they take healing gear for the stacking of regen from backpack regenrator, healing mist, and for increased heals on super elixir and healing turret.

your arguments seem to be coming from the place engies were in back in feb/march.

when was the last time you played this game?

did you just come back to play your FOTM necro and find out that even though you are OP to everyone else, you still have to work to win?

tool.

furthermore, why the hell SHOULD every profession have abilities that work exactly the same way?

what would be the point of having multiple professions to play?

So, according to your high knowledge of this game, an engineer can’t run with soldier amulet, even if he wants, just because you said that.

The point is, why engineer should have a 100% automated and permanent condition immunity when at under 25% health instead of a player-controlled condition removal like every other profession in this game?

nakoda.4213:

sorrow.2364:

nakoda.4213:

because it ISNT 100% immunity.

it USED TO BE, and they changed it.

the “report” in game of “immunity” over the engies head is a BUG, as is the reduction of >100% condies to 0%.

AR was nerfed in the last patch because Anet knew that it would be a hard counter to the new condi meta. the notion that they screwed it up and didn’t do that properly ought not be a surprise to you.

So, what is the difference between “immunity to newly applied conditions” and “conditions applied lasts 0 seconds”?

really?

immunity = immunity

the poor wording of the trait makes it sound as though it fully reduces the duration of conditions.

it is meant to subtract “100%” duration (ie the base duration before buffs), thus, you could still potentially get a tick of bleed or burning off.

yes, that is bugged right now and you see “immune” in game.

Except you don’t get a single tick. That’s complete garbage and its been proven with the warriors berserker stance that reduces conditions 100%. They do not get a tick and neither do engineers.

30 in inventions and Soldiers ammy+Clerics jewel (youre allowed to mix and match)
= 23.4k hp 500 HP 3k armor just letting you all know (with 4 groves+2 earth runes)

i run clerics with a soldier’s jewel and those same runes.

I have 18332 HP and 1k heals with 3k power adn 3k toughness.

bunkers do not stack vita. just because they CAN doesn’t mean they DO.

your logic is flawed.

potentiality and reality are two different things.

you need to come back to the virtual reality within which this discussion is placed

ie: the actual builds that use AR and the actual equipment AR engies take.

nakoda.4213:

i run clerics with a soldier’s jewel and those same runes.

I have 18332 HP and 1k heals with 3k power adn 3k toughness.

bunkers do not stack vita. just because they CAN doesn’t mean they DO.

your logic is flawed.

potentiality and reality are two different things.

you been to come back to the virtual reality within which this discussion is placed

ie: the actual builds that use AR and the actual equipment AR engies take.

Generally, no they don’t but when you have a trait that specifically benefits from it, you MIGHT have to think outside the box a little bit sometimes.

sorrow.2364:

nakoda.4213:

no, you fool.

they take healing gear for the stacking of regen from backpack regenrator, healing mist, and for increased heals on super elixir and healing turret.

your arguments seem to be coming from the place engies were in back in feb/march.

when was the last time you played this game?

did you just come back to play your FOTM necro and find out that even though you are OP to everyone else, you still have to work to win?

tool.

furthermore, why the hell SHOULD every profession have abilities that work exactly the same way?

what would be the point of having multiple professions to play?

So, according to your high knowledge of this game, an engineer can’t run with soldier amulet, even if he wants, just because you said that.

The point is, why engineer should have a 100% automated and permanent condition immunity when at under 25% health instead of a player-controlled condition removal like every other profession in this game?

why don’t engies have weapons?
why don’t engies have passive condi removal?
why don’t engies have signets?
why don’t engies have melee?
why don’t engies have heavy armor?
why are engi auto attacks purposefully reduced in efficacy such that a full power builds brings our autoattacks up to other classes default efficacy?

why, why, why!

mew mew mew!
the kittens go mew!

ronpierce.2760:

nakoda.4213:

i run clerics with a soldier’s jewel and those same runes.

I have 18332 HP and 1k heals with 3k power adn 3k toughness.

bunkers do not stack vita. just because they CAN doesn’t mean they DO.

your logic is flawed.

potentiality and reality are two different things.

you been to come back to the virtual reality within which this discussion is placed

ie: the actual builds that use AR and the actual equipment AR engies take.

Generally, no they don’t but when you have a trait that specifically benefits from it, you MIGHT have to think outside the box a little bit sometimes.

AHHAHahhaahHAHahAHahAHaHaHaHaHaHAHaHAHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHAHhAAHahaHAHaHAHaHaHaHaHaHAHaHAHaHAHahaHahaHAHahaHahaHaHaHahahahahahahAHahHAahhAAHahahahhaahAHah.

hooo!

i needed that.

/tear wipe

you are addressing the engi has been using the FT in PVP since february in a build that hasn’t changed much, and has until the condi “meta” loomed over the mists was entirely “outside” the box.

seriously. who are you?

ronpierce.2760:

My apologies, “how much into offense”? I was referring to bunkers, and I forgot that Engis are SUPPOSED to be able to kill someone attacking them while bunking but everyone else “has to call for help”.

They must “call for help” only if they are full condi build that aren’t able to time their condi bursts right.
With a similar build, you can’t do anything toward an opponent. It literally suppose that you are constantly moving and just doing that. In the meantime, you are subject to ranged attacks and, more important, every single control skill from the enemy – and without stability, it isn’t that hard. And we aren’t the only ones that can use swiftness, you know.
By the way, why did you ignore the part regarding the trait you proposed?
As always, when there is a counterargument that oppose your thesis, it gets ignored. Nothing new.

sorrow.2364:

Did you know that Soldier amulet has power as main stat?

Yeah. Have you ever tried using an engineer? Power alone is near useless – almost all the kits are power/condi hybrid. And if you are bunkering you’ll likely use the shield – and so, pistols. The only reason you would do so it because you count on staying alive and killing the opponent doesn’t matter. The trait as it is now help it do so. Changing it would make it useless altogether.

I’m wasting my time here.

When people are that biased towards a profession, there is no point to bring up a proper discussion.

it’s a good thing that you have no bias at all.

mew mew!

P.S. yes, you are a waste of time, but hey, it’s saturday morning and i am here to ruin your weekend.

sorrow.2364:

I’m wasting my time here.

When people are that biased towards a profession, there is no point to bring up a proper discussion.

I could say the same about you and your pals, you know.
You’ve been ignoring every single argument we’ve posted here…

What I don’t understand is since all you players claim the skill is useless why don’t you guys run your HGH builds and stop worrying about AR. I only posted this based on the fact that I could delay my death with AR long enough to heal 8k back and repeat the cycle till my enemy dies from multiple conditions. I thought it might be a bit unfair and simply want to bring it to anets attention.

Manuhell.2759:

I could say the same about you and your pals, you know.
You’ve been ignoring every single argument we’ve posted here…

I’ve not ignored your arguments. I’ve just tried to say in the whole topic that your arguments were not addressing the issue.

How can you have an argument about politics if you keep talking about music?

nakoda.4213:

it’s a good thing that you have no bias at all.

mew mew!

P.S. yes, you are a waste of time, but hey, it’s saturday morning and i am here to ruin your weekend.

Congratulations, you succeeded with your stupidity to make me lose my will.

I’m processing a video as we speak, just a duel I had with a rank 40 necromancer (yes he runs condies and flesh golem)
1. This should not happen. I don’t care WHAT you’re fighting, immunity of death to any dps type character is not “okay”… ever.
2. I proved you are wrong about how condi -100% duration works. I had him link his agony scepter, spam auto attack, not even a minor bleed even showed up. It did absolutely nothing. So just sit back and enjoy why I’m telling you this is absolutely not acceptable in an e-spot game. This isn’t sport, it’s a loophole.

Edit: this is a perfect example of why my suggested trait of removing all conditions and making your TEMPORARILY immune for about 4-8 seconds with a 60-90 second cooldown would however, be considered skillful. If you get this low, it allows you to clutch and bring yourself back up, but you’re not godmode to a type of build. If you’re SKILLFUL you will last long enough for it to come off cooldown and save you again. Otherwise, outplayed, you should rightfully die.

nakoda.4213:

i’m having fun now.

they woke the dragon.

it’s been a couple months since i’ve had a chance to vent my anger towards stupidity on the forums. I must have cleared a few infractions by now, let’s see if i can get banned for setting the house on fire again.

Please try to keep this a discussion and not slander or hate rants XD

sorrow.2364:

Manuhell.2759:

I could say the same about you and your pals, you know.
You’ve been ignoring every single argument we’ve posted here…

I’ve not ignored your arguments. I’ve just tried to say in the whole topic that your arguments were not addressing the issue.

How can you have an argument about politics if you keep talking about music?

nakoda.4213:

it’s a good thing that you have no bias at all.

mew mew!

P.S. yes, you are a waste of time, but hey, it’s saturday morning and i am here to ruin your weekend.

Congratulations, you succeeded with your stupidity to make me lose my will.

your will is no match for the d*AR*k side.

P.S. if you cannot grasp how you can argue about politics by talking about music, then you have no concept of metaphor, allegory, or mediated perspective and, frankly, suggests that you have no place in any debate about anything… ever.

nakoda.4213:

sorrow.2364:

Manuhell.2759:

I could say the same about you and your pals, you know.
You’ve been ignoring every single argument we’ve posted here…

I’ve not ignored your arguments. I’ve just tried to say in the whole topic that your arguments were not addressing the issue.

How can you have an argument about politics if you keep talking about music?

nakoda.4213:

it’s a good thing that you have no bias at all.

mew mew!

P.S. yes, you are a waste of time, but hey, it’s saturday morning and i am here to ruin your weekend.

Congratulations, you succeeded with your stupidity to make me lose my will.

your will is no match for the d*AR*k side.

^ lol’d XD

edit: 50% then uploading to Youtube, stick around.
edit2: This is me with about a total of 2.5 hours now on an engi, ever. As you can see in the video I didn’t even know all of the other passive stuff going on, but maybe it’ll give you an idea of why its an issue.

Zelulose.8695:

nakoda.4213:

i’m having fun now.

they woke the dragon.

it’s been a couple months since i’ve had a chance to vent my anger towards stupidity on the forums. I must have cleared a few infractions by now, let’s see if i can get banned for setting the house on fire again.

Please try to keep this a discussion and not slander or hate rants XD

not my fault that the ignorance behind the argument that AR is overpowered is being eschewed here faster than fat kitten from austin powers can drop a ten coiler.

i have no qualms with stating that i will vehemently argue against stupid people.

that quote (from the engie forums, for those playing the home game) is an entirely accurate statement reflecting how i feel about this thread. it is also an engi community centered comment that requires the context of having been around my posts for months and understanding how the game is played.

the context for neither of which you seem to possess.

grow some skin.

and maybe some skills.

Just you wait, good sir. I’m going to prove to you that AR is the skill-lessness we’re all referring to. 2.5 hours on an engi vs a rank 40 condi necro. Just wait. And I poked some holes in your other accusations too, like how the -100% condi time works.