Guild Wars 2

Zanthrax.6538:

Lordrosicky.5813:

….The mesmer and ele dps is way too high. Once you remove the sword thief (ele/mesmer cant win this) and necro/ranger dominance then you will have another broken and lame meta where mesmer and ele damage is way too high for all the extra things they can provide….

@Devs I highlighted the part that I feel you need to reconsider….you mentioned ele and mesmer are in a good spot once we tone down the condi damage which counters them so, however from our experience as a PvP Playerbase we know that the moment condi damage is reduced and the specs that counter these 2 professions get toned down these 2 professions of Mesmer and Ele will become the new brokenly OP profession in the meta because of their burst capabilities.

With all due respect, if you do intend to JUST nerf condi damage etc please be ready and I sincerely mean this, be ready to roll out quick fixes of tiny changes to mesmer and ele prior to the sept 17th patch, simple tweaks like this need to happen frequently in large disparity meta games. To give an example with the Elementalist. When specs that counter them get toned down they are now in a position to run their usual fresh air s/d or s/f burst builds, the issue with said burst setup majority of it is off the global cooldown so chainable quite quickly together, and above that the cooldown for fresh air and similar burst capabilities is quite low which I don’t have a problem with but its burst damage is too high for its low cooldown and off the global cooldown capabilities.

I hope you take this advice under consideration and if you don’t I would sincerely appreciate perhaps chatting to us on SOTG why you feel ele and mesmer’s burst isn’t too much given the apparent condi nerfs etc. Thank you for your time.

Very good posting in my point of view

Zanthrax.6538:

Lordrosicky.5813:

….The mesmer and ele dps is way too high. Once you remove the sword thief (ele/mesmer cant win this) and necro/ranger dominance then you will have another broken and lame meta where mesmer and ele damage is way too high for all the extra things they can provide….

@Devs I highlighted the part that I feel you need to reconsider….you mentioned ele and mesmer are in a good spot once we tone down the condi damage which counters them so, however from our experience as a PvP Playerbase we know that the moment condi damage is reduced and the specs that counter these 2 professions get toned down these 2 professions of Mesmer and Ele will become the new brokenly OP profession in the meta because of their burst capabilities.

With all due respect, if you do intend to JUST nerf condi damage etc please be ready and I sincerely mean this, be ready to roll out quick fixes of tiny changes to mesmer and ele prior to the sept 17th patch, simple tweaks like this need to happen frequently in large disparity meta games. To give an example with the Elementalist. When specs that counter them get toned down they are now in a position to run their usual fresh air s/d or s/f burst builds, the issue with said burst setup majority of it is off the global cooldown so chainable quite quickly together, and above that the cooldown for fresh air and similar burst capabilities is quite low which I don’t have a problem with but its burst damage is too high for its low cooldown and off the global cooldown capabilities.

I hope you take this advice under consideration and if you don’t I would sincerely appreciate perhaps chatting to us on SOTG why you feel ele and mesmer’s burst isn’t too much given the apparent condi nerfs etc. Thank you for your time.

Wow someone else gets it :O Not to mention ele damage on downed players is the best there is by a mile.

IMO, a glass zerker ele should have the highest DPS in the game. It has the least survivability of any other class. Unlike thief or mes, it has no capacity to evade damage via stealth. Highest risk should yield the highest reward.

A glass ele’s only survival skill is lightning flash cantrip (assuming you haven’t already used it to land your burst), high vigor uptime, and air3 (low-CD blind). Maybe mistform/arcaneshield, but taking one of those skills cuts your burst down. The water heals on a glass ele are so low that it often isn’t worth casting them in combat. In the time it takes to cast healing trident or cleansing wave, you’d take more damage from your opponent’s autoattacks than you’d get back in healing. This is because you have almost 0 toughness and close to 0 healing).

The amount of squishiness a glass ele has cannot be overstated. A glass d/p thief will kill you with one backstab and 2-3 autoattacks. A CC warrior will kill you in one rotation if your lightning flash is on cooldown. (Swapping to earth for protection will just put you at near death so you’ll die to the next autoattack). One GS/Pistol/Sword phantasm summon will take you to 33%-40% health. Your only defense is to actively outplay your opponent by timing the blind or the dodge. If you get hit, you are dead.

Moreover, if you “shave” glass cannon ele’s burst, you’ll be nerfing the non-damage eles even harder. The base damage on the ele’s instacast skills (lightning bolt, static discharge, arcane blast/wave) have relatively low damage coefficients. The arcane blast/wave skills don’t even scale with weapon damage. These skills might be instacast, but their actual damage is on par with many other classes’ autoattacks. The only reason the ele’s burst feels so high is because the ele has sacrified everything for the sake of damage. In other words, the glass ele’s burst is in line with other glass specs.

One change I would like — which would reduce glass ele’s dps — is to change arcane blast/wave. These utility skills are just a very boring, non-strategic source of damage. I would rather they did less damage but have more utility (such as making them apply a condition based on attunement, like with the grandmaster trait).

JonathanSharp.7094:

ilr.9675:

So wait… I heard more ranger nerfs… Could you all just please instead remove the whole class from PvP isntead? That’d be a lot faster and save a lot of time (and our sanity in PvE). Thanks

Wait til you see the update! You may be making it out in your mind to be more drastic than it really is.

No offense, but haven’t you learned your lesson on this yet? Public should have a ptr and pre-release patch notes. You could get feedback before patching and tweak accordingly. Just saying.

Also, why does thief need a nerf? If anything it needs love.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Agreed on the shaving + making sure we don’t overdo it with big hits to the classes.

Also good points about making sure that we don’t take away the things “holding down” some of the strong builds. I think Mes and Ele are probably ok for the most part, as long as we tone down the conditions output from some classes, and bring the S/D Thief in line.

Chap, don’t forget to nerf mechanic in primis.

- CC lock
- Perma evades skills
- long stealth aoe (sr and combo field)

These mechanics are in more classes and are not good for the pvp game.

I’d just like to know if we’ll ever get to the point where power builds for classes actually work. Back when the game launched they were popular because people will still learning the ropes. But once bunkers took over they disappeared. That then lead to the condi meta we have now.

It would also be nice if Rangers had a real power option to choose from instead of nothing but conditions.

Nikkinella.8254:

Fishbait.6723:

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think Mes and Ele are probably ok for the most part, as long as we tone down the conditions output from some classes, and bring the S/D Thief in line.

Wow, just wow….

I know. I threw up a little in my mouth reading that. S/D thief isn’t a problem anyway. Its the only type of thief that actually is fun to fight against for me since it actually requires some semblance of intelligence to use unlike the brainless 5,2,1 spam D/P , troll stealth spam build. THAT is what needs to be brought in line. Not S/D. Are we even playing the same game here Jonathan?

Right…because 2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,33,3,3,2 isn’t “brainless”. Either way there are only 5 weapon skills and there are only so many ways they can be used.

swinsk.6410:

JonathanSharp.7094:

ilr.9675:

So wait… I heard more ranger nerfs… Could you all just please instead remove the whole class from PvP isntead? That’d be a lot faster and save a lot of time (and our sanity in PvE). Thanks

Wait til you see the update! You may be making it out in your mind to be more drastic than it really is.

No offense, but haven’t you learned your lesson on this yet? Public should have a ptr and pre-release patch notes. You could get feedback before patching and tweak accordingly. Just saying.

Also, why does thief need a nerf? If anything it needs love.

Just this… We need better communication to whats gonna happen before it actually happens. I kittens to have to look at dev tracker and go reading everything just to have some sort of idea of what the devs are thinking about balance.

As a software developer, i understand that most programmers are not very open and usually have communication issues. I was like this a few years ago. I would go to work, and try my best to focus on what i should do, and talking to other people really made me less productive in a way. But it actually was the key to succeeding in my career.

You see, people really wont get mad at you for saying things like “we wont do any balancing in class for the next 2 months because PAX is coming up. But when it ends, on 6/9 we are thinking of doing the following balance changes: ……… What do you guys think about it?”. Simply because they now have a release date when they can expect these changes to happen, instead of getting frustrated every 2 weeks, and can actually give feedback on what you are thinking of doing and feel like the game belongs to all of us. As a software developer, you guys at ANet should know the importance of shared code knowledge. Everyone in your team should be able to work in every part of the game code, because if not then teams are gonna blame each other for mistakes and wont try to help each other.

The same applies to devs vs players. If we players dont have the slightest clue as to what exaclty you guys are gonna do, when, and cant discuss them with you, them we dont feel as part of the Guild Wars 2 team. Screw that in game election, we want to be able to have polls and give direct feedback into core class mechanics. Just take a look at the forums, theres a lot of posts on new skills or skill balances. But we usually dont see a single feedback from a Dev in those kinda of posts.

To sum things up, if we dont know how things are going to go beforehand, you can be absolutely sure we will always complain every time you do ANY balance fix, no matter how small. We players feel betrayed when our build which we have been playing for months just suddenly becames bad, and you Devs get mad for not getting any recognition for doing a lot of work trying to make it better. In a nutshell: work less, and communicate more. If you guys took your time to read Lean Startup, you should know that building the right thing is way more important than building more wrong things.

They do not prerelease patchnotes, because it messes up the trading point.

It might be possible to convince me that Eles aren’t so bad, but I can’t say I see how Mesmers are “fine”. They’ve been ridiculous ever since the game launched, and even without shatters an ability like Portal is so broken even WvW and defending has to revolve around its use.

Do NOT nerf mah Mind Wrack or i will chase you until the end of time and throw rocks at you. I know most people cry about mesmers for three things, 1- izerker, 2- iDuelist (which isn’t even aoe) and 3- mind Wrack. If MW is nerfed the only real other aoe we have is iZerker and there’s rumors of nerfing fantasms… Class has no aoe! Leave mesmers alone!!!!!

Zumy.6318:

They do not prerelease patchnotes, because it messes up the trading point.

They did a very big announcement on whats going to change economy wise, which surely has messed up trading post. So i dont think they care that much about it. It also will affect the economy anyway after it a patch has been released, so its just a matter of “when” and not “if”

I agree with the most guys trying to figure out that ele & mesmer are pretty strong and needs to toned a bit, too. Even they are currently out of meta. There was a very good thread by Phantaram a couple of weeks ago how to balance out condi spam + ele & mesmer adjustions.

and @Jonathan: you said in another thread it would be great if the game pace is slowed down for more enjoyable game experience (more time for good counterplays and skillful reactions) and viewability (new players…). You should maybe revise your opinion that these 2 classes are fine right now. Nobody likes to see an insta explode of 3 guys in a teamfight because of ele, mesmer + x bursts

cheerio
wkd

@anet

pls, consider you talk with ~90% fullnoobs about balance in this forum.

better do what you think is right and dont listen to much to the forum.
most forum users camp 24/7 on forum and dont play enough to be able in give good feedback.
also the “good” players (much old mesmers) just qq around because they are not able to play the old build.

the ladder is one reason because players are not try to create new builds and test around, because much of the good players watch to much for their rank and dont whant lose any rank.
just a example how long it was need to realice that the cc warrior is so strong… just a bad joke how slowly peoples try around to find builds instead whine.

the last balance patch was not a disaster.
calling s/d thief, necro, warrior and ranger op and
speak about balanced guardian means.
oh wonder nearly each profession is op and only ele and mes have a bad spot (what not means they are to weak, they have rly huge dmg output).
so gg on balance anet.

also this to much npcs on point because spirit ranger qq is kitten.
why you guys cry about this, but you rly was ok with the old shatter mesmer npcs?

we need not much nerfs on atm working builds.
look more for new traits and skills, rework never used traits
and at least ignore this whiners…

last meta was fun, this meta is fun.

pah and stop ranger have no skill qq.
the players who play this class long time can do amazing things
and the players who just play it a bit are ~bad to watch and easy to kill when i run my ranger…

the most important thing to win is player tactic and player skill,
so keep playing/training and stop this kitten whining all the kittening time.
its a bad joke. look for another game if its now 1 yeahr no fun for you.
how you guys can cry 1 yeahr in this forum?!

i have fun playing my guardian and ranger when he is finaly viable.
its a not viable > viable > not viable > viable profession
but i have np to play him every balance patch with another build, because whiners on forum.

it would be rly better if you dont buff/nerf to much around on working stuff.
better try to make not much used skills/weapons/traits work
by improve them.
guardian is the perfect profession, alone when i play bunker guard,
there are all weaponsets useful. its so hard to pick a weapon combo out, because i always think “hm this one would be also so nice”
same on bunker guard traits.
there more then 4 different ways to play it and all are good in different situations.
THIS on all professions would be nice

JonathanSharp.7094:

Agreed on the shaving + making sure we don’t overdo it with big hits to the classes.

Also good points about making sure that we don’t take away the things “holding down” some of the strong builds. I think Mes and Ele are probably ok for the most part, as long as we tone down the conditions output from some classes, and bring the S/D Thief in line.

Yeah, you’re definitely right about that and I think most of the top level community agrees. Mesmer and Ele are by no means weak, they are just being oppressed by the current condition-heavy meta in that they don’t bring enough to a team to support a Necro’s and Ranger’s condi pressure, and you would be crazy to not run either of those in their current state. They both also run face-first into weakness and protection, both of which there are metric tons of in the current meta.

By the way, I don’t agree with others that are saying tht the game needs to be slowed down more. Coordinated bursts and fast kills are more fun to watch for a lot of people than slow, bunkery attrition matches. Look at MOBAs, people love watching those and team fights in those games rarely go beyond 10 to 15 seconds. I think the pace of the game is in the right spot, the things mainly needing toning down to make the game more watchable are some culling for particle effects in spec mode, less res utilities, and less AI in the meta.

Blimm.5028:

Rangers are the most broken op thing in the tPvP universe, no skill/risk, high reward.
This is PvP forums, and the only thing likely to be nerfed bout rangers is spirits, wich suck in PvE anyway so calm down.

Frost spirit is huge in dungeon play. Wellomancers are easier to play spirit rangers. Skill floor argument is bunk.

There’s a lot of misinformation about the Mesmer (as usual) and thus is the reason why the Mesmer has received some nerfs that were a bit heavy handed.

Now when the Mesmer is down, people want to continue to kick dirt in its face. The Mesmer hardly has the best dps. Where the hell did the OP get that information from? What data or games is he viewing?

What happened to just learning new tactics and taking time to understand what your opponent is doing?

What about guardians?

Hicci.8761:

What about guardians?

Gaurdians can remove 30 conditions aoe with shouts, spam blind, spam stability, spam knockback, and they get the line pull. But hey, guardians aren’t OP spirit rangers are. Get with the program.

cymerdown.4103:

By the way, I don’t agree with others that are saying tht the game needs to be slowed down more. Coordinated bursts and fast kills are more fun to watch for a lot of people than slow, bunkery attrition matches. Look at MOBAs, people love watching those and team fights in those games rarely go beyond 10 to 15 seconds. I think the pace of the game is in the right spot, the things mainly needing toning down to make the game more watchable are some culling for particle effects in spec mode, less res utilities, and less AI in the meta.

I don’t think they want the game to be slowed down to the point of bunkery attrition matches. The current time-to-kill is way too fast, though. An elementalist, for example, can burst someone down from 100 to 0 nearly instantly.

I’m all for coordinated bursts, but there’s a difference between a group burst lasting 5-7s, and a single player bursting another in 3-5s.

@ Cymerdown

That is what I love about Dota 2. As a player you are both looking forward to and dreading those teamfights. In close matches your heart is about to pop out of you its beating so fast. Late in a match, using Smoke of Deceit well and obliterating their team in seconds is so kittening awesome, but they can do that to you too! It freaks you out!

I agree on teamfights being faster than long, drawn out slugfests. In a way, Spirit Rangers contributed to that with the rezes. The coolest part to me about the CC – Paradigm finals was how the teams were otherworldly in their rezes. As soon as someone dropped they were right on top of their teammates getting them back up.

Individuals doing too much damage could be a problem if Ele burst isn’t touched. We all saw what Mogwow was doing in the EU invitational and if you’ve been watching PVPTV you can see what S/F is doing as well. Very hard to counter instant bursts.

Zanthrax.6538:

Lordrosicky.5813:

….The mesmer and ele dps is way too high. Once you remove the sword thief (ele/mesmer cant win this) and necro/ranger dominance then you will have another broken and lame meta where mesmer and ele damage is way too high for all the extra things they can provide….

@Devs I highlighted the part that I feel you need to reconsider….you mentioned ele and mesmer are in a good spot once we tone down the condi damage which counters them so, however from our experience as a PvP Playerbase we know that the moment condi damage is reduced and the specs that counter these 2 professions get toned down these 2 professions of Mesmer and Ele will become the new brokenly OP profession in the meta because of their burst capabilities.

With all due respect, if you do intend to JUST nerf condi damage etc please be ready and I sincerely mean this, be ready to roll out quick fixes of tiny changes to mesmer and ele prior to the sept 17th patch, simple tweaks like this need to happen frequently in large disparity meta games. To give an example with the Elementalist. When specs that counter them get toned down they are now in a position to run their usual fresh air s/d or s/f burst builds, the issue with said burst setup majority of it is off the global cooldown so chainable quite quickly together, and above that the cooldown for fresh air and similar burst capabilities is quite low which I don’t have a problem with but its burst damage is too high for its low cooldown and off the global cooldown capabilities.

I hope you take this advice under consideration and if you don’t I would sincerely appreciate perhaps chatting to us on SOTG why you feel ele and mesmer’s burst isn’t too much given the apparent condi nerfs etc. Thank you for your time.

I read through the whole topic and for gods sake finally find a person besides the OP that has actually a clue about class-balance. Sure the devs get a false impression of balance when they read through all these answers.
Again thank you!

I think somewhere on a server a guardian lost to a spirit ranger…
so that can not be…!

Lordrosicky.5813:

Zanthrax.6538:

Lordrosicky.5813:

….The mesmer and ele dps is way too high. Once you remove the sword thief (ele/mesmer cant win this) and necro/ranger dominance then you will have another broken and lame meta where mesmer and ele damage is way too high for all the extra things they can provide….

@Devs I highlighted the part that I feel you need to reconsider….you mentioned ele and mesmer are in a good spot once we tone down the condi damage which counters them so, however from our experience as a PvP Playerbase we know that the moment condi damage is reduced and the specs that counter these 2 professions get toned down these 2 professions of Mesmer and Ele will become the new brokenly OP profession in the meta because of their burst capabilities.

With all due respect, if you do intend to JUST nerf condi damage etc please be ready and I sincerely mean this, be ready to roll out quick fixes of tiny changes to mesmer and ele prior to the sept 17th patch, simple tweaks like this need to happen frequently in large disparity meta games. To give an example with the Elementalist. When specs that counter them get toned down they are now in a position to run their usual fresh air s/d or s/f burst builds, the issue with said burst setup majority of it is off the global cooldown so chainable quite quickly together, and above that the cooldown for fresh air and similar burst capabilities is quite low which I don’t have a problem with but its burst damage is too high for its low cooldown and off the global cooldown capabilities.

I hope you take this advice under consideration and if you don’t I would sincerely appreciate perhaps chatting to us on SOTG why you feel ele and mesmer’s burst isn’t too much given the apparent condi nerfs etc. Thank you for your time.

Wow someone else gets it :O Not to mention ele damage on downed players is the best there is by a mile.

Agreed. I main a mesmer (Select Start in EU, Ninesevensix Evil in NA) and i can safely say that GS damage is a bit to high when we’re free to attack from safety – which is why thiefs are a big issue against us at the moment (free engage and disengage at will plus a kitten ton of evades and sustain), and lack of condi clear makes us very weak against condition focus. But we definitely need some/better ways to get condition clearance and a bit of mobility i’d say.

Regarding fresh air i wouldn’t say its a game breaking damaging skill, but i believe what people is complaining about is due the fact that it cannot be telegraphed/countered, and this is a main issue for the whole game – we need to see things in order to react.

And of course the things i mentioned should be applied only after the other things that the OP mentioned.

I REALLY hope the complaints about high ele damage are just the instant-burst combo, which I agree is silly. However, ele damage in general is terrible comparatively, especially given their survivability (which is terrible in general, as even the bunker can’t stay alive nearly as long as other bunkers), to the point that eles have been forced to play a psuedo-thief (but worse), rather than actual class. Take away the instant burst (arcanes even), but give us some utilities that are on a reasonable cooldown/help our allies, and PLEASE give out weapons teeth for something other than silly bursts (i.e. better scaling of some skills with power, especially auto-attack, so that ele can do something other than spam on rotation).

A glass ele is just a thief who has traded his armor, stealth, and mobility for AOE CC and dmg. More risk (a lot more), more reward.

If you train a glass ele, he is going to die. This will be even more true if/when we return to a more power-oriented meta (zerker ele was actually better than valk ele vs. conditions due to zerk giving more HP and valk toughness not helping).

In other words, there is counterplay to the glass ele. He needs to constantly be hitting you to trigger fresh air. But he can’t do that if he’s getting attacked because he melts under pressure. You avoid his air-attune burst by pressuring him so he can’t benefit from fresh air as much.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Zanthrax.6538:

Lordrosicky.5813:

….The mesmer and ele dps is way too high. Once you remove the sword thief (ele/mesmer cant win this) and necro/ranger dominance then you will have another broken and lame meta where mesmer and ele damage is way too high for all the extra things they can provide….

@Devs I highlighted the part that I feel you need to reconsider….you mentioned ele and mesmer are in a good spot once we tone down the condi damage which counters them so, however from our experience as a PvP Playerbase we know that the moment condi damage is reduced and the specs that counter these 2 professions get toned down these 2 professions of Mesmer and Ele will become the new brokenly OP profession in the meta because of their burst capabilities.

With all due respect, if you do intend to JUST nerf condi damage etc please be ready and I sincerely mean this, be ready to roll out quick fixes of tiny changes to mesmer and ele prior to the sept 17th patch, simple tweaks like this need to happen frequently in large disparity meta games. To give an example with the Elementalist. When specs that counter them get toned down they are now in a position to run their usual fresh air s/d or s/f burst builds, the issue with said burst setup majority of it is off the global cooldown so chainable quite quickly together, and above that the cooldown for fresh air and similar burst capabilities is quite low which I don’t have a problem with but its burst damage is too high for its low cooldown and off the global cooldown capabilities.

I hope you take this advice under consideration and if you don’t I would sincerely appreciate perhaps chatting to us on SOTG why you feel ele and mesmer’s burst isn’t too much given the apparent condi nerfs etc. Thank you for your time.

Wow someone else gets it :O Not to mention ele damage on downed players is the best there is by a mile.

While I see what you mean, I do think that you need to take into consideration that the ele has no means of a surprise attack like that of a thief or mesmer. They will focus everything on a combo. If that fails (which is likely in TPvP), using utility skills on burst, there is little they can do and will be mincemeat.

I get the feeling that you aren’t taking their vulnerabilities into account. The burst can be high (in a combo), yes, but you can’t reset such like a thief. The thief will likely be a better option in that regard.

If/when conditions are toned down, I don’t see the ele as a burster will take over the place of anyone else. At best, be able to have a spot in a party as a burster. Your fears seem a bit misplaced, tbh.

Correct me if I am wrong.

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think […] Ele are probably ok for the most part,

AFTER ALL THESE NERFS TO MOBILITY, healing and the RIDICULOUS damage output except if you go out with 0 toughness and lowest hp in the game and still only get half as much done as warriors at twice the effort and wrist surgery or w/e and the “mobility traits” that only work on combat but don’t tell you so (nerfnerf) AND the lack for a year now of an out-of-combat switch so we have to open our inventory all the time while running around to switch staff for swiftness, then getting in combat while trying to do so/having to locate the frigging offhand weapon in our inventory, you frigging DARE say “I think eles are ok for the most part”????
WTTTTTFFFFFFF MAAAAAAAAN.

I know… this is just a tv show.. a comedy show, and we’re the candidates and just didn’t know it..ahahaha…hahahahahaha…hAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA snap

Edit 10 minutes later:
Sorry, hard to calm down. wtfffffffffffFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF… he writes “I think eles are ok for the most part” WWWWTTTFFF is this guy wtF!???!!!!? I have played all the builds, I have ~6 full sets for ele (itemwise).. oh yeah and gg ascended items, how will I get all of those in your kittened superfluous pink versions nao? You give them to me, man?
Time to read it again…. nope, it’s still there. Exactly the words… it wasn’t a dream. oO

Too late! They gave sigils cool downs facepalm

JonathanSharp.7094:

ilr.9675:

So wait… I heard more ranger nerfs… Could you all just please instead remove the whole class from PvP isntead? That’d be a lot faster and save a lot of time (and our sanity in PvE). Thanks

Wait til you see the update! You may be making it out in your mind to be more drastic than it really is.

You nerfed the only good thing left to ranger..his spirits. Shame on you devs shame on Arenanet. Plz delete Ranger class. You killed it again and again..And if you go reading rangers forum..You ll realize we all think the same about your nerfs. Just for info..Why you all hate so much rangers?^

Ranger was overpowered for sooo long. Stop crying.

Lupanic.6502:

Ranger was overpowered for sooo long. Stop crying.

You must be a thief who got his kitten kikked by a spirit ranger or beastmastery ranger I see

What I find funny…is that every other class gets mentioned multiple times but engineer’s get completely ignored.

Dear Jonathan Sharp

While I do appreciate the Devs work I feel that you forgot about build diversity. Completely.
Very few classes have more than 1 or 2 viable builds.

Rangers have 1 build that (while a bit OP and now tuned down, fair enough) is very low risk, very easy to play, great success (and imho: boring).
I’d like to play my class AS I WANT and not what the meta dictates.
Ofc I know I can’t run 10/10/10/10/10, but the complete lack of build diversity is frustrating. (talking about PvP here!)
For example Power Rangers are competely useless in tPvP content.
To be more precice: Power Builds are bad in general in PvP content (while great in PvE and a lot of fun there!)

I really would like to invite you to join some discussions on the ranger forums to adress some of these frustrating issues.
I know you are busy and I get that there might be more important stuff for you to do than chatting with us, but on the other hand there is a huge demand to discuss this issue.

Regards,
Aeri

@ the other complainers:
I don’t think that “delete Rangers” is somewhere near a solution.
People are still enjoing rangers, spirit build is still effective and fun (actually a bit more since now it requires you to manage your spirit cooldowns).

Constantly whining about any change is not getting us anywhere, so better come up with some solutions and give your statements some more content than “you did a kittenty job”. That’s unfair und not helpfull.

Eles might be fine if you restrict the discussion to a specific build (30 air GC) in the least-played & therefore least-significant part of the game (sPVP). In every other way, Ele is pretty kitten underwhelming:

• conjures still a joke
• glyphs still a joke
• signets still considerably weaker than cantrips
• high arcane, high water still required (noone roams/zergs/GVGs as 30 air GC)
• focus still sucks
• D/D has basically disappeared

Please consider the majority when dropping wtf-bombs like “Ele is OK” as this is sure to further the (noticeably already high) level of resentment of players towards yourselves.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Agreed on the shaving + making sure we don’t overdo it with big hits to the classes.

Also good points about making sure that we don’t take away the things “holding down” some of the strong builds. I think Mes and Ele are probably ok for the most part, as long as we tone down the conditions output from some classes, and bring the S/D Thief in line.

Ahahahahhahaha…eles are probably ok….ahahahahahaha! Good one!

Oh wait, you were serious?

mjharrison.3209:

Eles might be fine if you restrict the discussion to a specific build (30 air GC) in the least-played & therefore least-significant part of the game (sPVP). In every other way, Ele is pretty kitten underwhelming:

• conjures still a joke
• glyphs still a joke
• signets still considerably weaker than cantrips
• high arcane, high water still required (noone roams/zergs/GVGs as 30 air GC)
• focus still sucks
• D/D has basically disappeared

Please consider the majority when dropping wtf-bombs like “Ele is OK” as this is sure to further the (noticeably already high) level of resentment of players towards yourselves.

+1.

ELEMENTALIST… ya i think eles needs to buff Glyph of elemental

Phantasmal Fury ADEPT Trait…. what kitten ed me off is a pure soldier (power,tough,vit) Mesmer with no critical chance can still do 4k-6k dmg each Phantasmal Duelisit and Swordsman cuz of this ADEPT trait Phantasmal Fury, it wud be more balance if they move this trait to MASTER trait.

NOTE: this Phantasmal Fury grants phantasms a CONTINUALLY refreshing 10s fury boon.

Saying ele is ok just tells me that you don’t play the class and don’t really understand what being an ele is like – a poor man’s thief or a useless sack of potatoes are you 2 options.

Maybe you think shaving other classes will help, but that means you are planning on nerfing all 7 classes, as currently ele loses to all of them (see the old matchup comparison thread).

You could always put RtL on an 80s cooldown…that would fix the issue.

Seriously, we need to be given either more survivability or more damage. The only way eles could stay alive before was by going 100% defensive, and you nerfed that into oblivion. The only option now is to go balls-to-the-wall on offense, and do it worse than a thief/mesmer. I don’t see how you could say we are o.k: poor damage, poor survivability, poor utilities (due to excessive cooldowns), the worst elites, and the most telegraphed attacks. For all that, we get some burst-healing that has been nerfed into the ground and a mobility skill that is buggy and performs worse than most other class’s mobility skills. Don’t even try to justify staff, as you have said it isn’t meant for pvp. Sounds like a fair trade-off.

I am not trying to sound confrontational, btw, I just am pointing out all the holes in your justification.

well i can’t blame ANET developers on this…. i dnt think they have at least one skillful pvpers who works on them.

BlackBeard.2873:

Saying ele is ok just tells me that you don’t play the class and don’t really understand what being an ele is like – a poor man’s thief or a useless sack of potatoes are you 2 options.

Maybe you think shaving other classes will help, but that means you are planning on nerfing all 7 classes, as currently ele loses to all of them (see the old matchup comparison thread).

You could always put RtL on an 80s cooldown…that would fix the issue.

Seriously, we need to be given either more survivability or more damage. The only way eles could stay alive before was by going 100% defensive, and you nerfed that into oblivion. The only option now is to go balls-to-the-wall on offense, and do it worse than a thief/mesmer. I don’t see how you could say we are o.k: poor damage, poor survivability, poor utilities (due to excessive cooldowns), the worst elites, and the most telegraphed attacks. For all that, we get some burst-healing that has been nerfed into the ground and a mobility skill that is buggy and performs worse than most other class’s mobility skills. Don’t even try to justify staff, as you have said it isn’t meant for pvp. Sounds like a fair trade-off.

I am not trying to sound confrontational, btw, I just am pointing out all the holes in your justification.

learn to play Scepter/dagger Ele. they’re really good! but ya when a very good S/D thief is around… he can tear you to pieces cuz when u rely on boons he can steal it repeatedly… all i think is BUFF the Ele’s elite Glyph of elemental.. more dmg and faster attack speed. and their skill’s cooldown shud be lessen

Coloxeus.3480:

learn to play Scepter/dagger Ele. they’re really good! but ya when a very good S/D thief is around… he can tear you to pieces cuz when u rely on boons he can steal it repeatedly… all i think is BUFF the Ele’s elite Glyph of elemental.. more dmg and faster attack speed. and their skill’s cooldown shud be lessen

S/D is o.k., but it still loses to most professions and doesn’t provide enough to his team. You either burst then die, in which case a mesmer/thief bursts nearly as hard w/o using every utility, and have plenty of survival mechanisms, or you try to hop in and out with sustained damage, but can’t even out-damage a warrior running healing signet b/c they heal more than you dps. That is why I say we need more damage.

S/D Thieves…. ya i usually playing double S/D thief and i find Larcenous strike OP if and ONLY if im facing a boon dependent class (Ele, guardian) why? i can steal 2 boons everytime i land my Larcenous… so to be balance make LS steal 1 boon but retain/gain 1 initiative on Larcenous strike HiT!.. this 1 init retain will always makes s/d thief player to use their FS/LS skill wisely! not the spammable way!

BlackBeard.2873:

Coloxeus.3480:

learn to play Scepter/dagger Ele. they’re really good! but ya when a very good S/D thief is around… he can tear you to pieces cuz when u rely on boons he can steal it repeatedly… all i think is BUFF the Ele’s elite Glyph of elemental.. more dmg and faster attack speed. and their skill’s cooldown shud be lessen

S/D is o.k., but it still loses to most professions and doesn’t provide enough to his team. You either burst then die, in which case a mesmer/thief bursts nearly as hard w/o using every utility, and have plenty of survival mechanisms, or you try to hop in and out with sustained damage, but can’t even out-damage a warrior running healing signet b/c they heal more than you dps. That is why I say we need more damage.

well warrior’s heealing signet with banner/condition is healla too OP! with shaman’s amulet ANET shud review that case i think they’re not aware and don’t expect theres a single ele build that can dominate all classes’s different build unless if you’re a pro engineer. ya pro engineer can dominate all in 1v1.. sad to say.

BlackBeard.2873:

Saying ele is ok just tells me that you don’t play the class and don’t really understand what being an ele is like – a poor man’s thief or a useless sack of potatoes are you 2 options.

Maybe you think shaving other classes will help, but that means you are planning on nerfing all 7 classes, as currently ele loses to all of them (see the old matchup comparison thread).

You could always put RtL on an 80s cooldown…that would fix the issue.

Seriously, we need to be given either more survivability or more damage. The only way eles could stay alive before was by going 100% defensive, and you nerfed that into oblivion. The only option now is to go balls-to-the-wall on offense, and do it worse than a thief/mesmer. I don’t see how you could say we are o.k: poor damage, poor survivability, poor utilities (due to excessive cooldowns), the worst elites, and the most telegraphed attacks. For all that, we get some burst-healing that has been nerfed into the ground and a mobility skill that is buggy and performs worse than most other class’s mobility skills. Don’t even try to justify staff, as you have said it isn’t meant for pvp. Sounds like a fair trade-off.

I am not trying to sound confrontational, btw, I just am pointing out all the holes in your justification.

Or maybe you just need to realize that you can’t play ele.

i really miss the Guild Wars 1 balanced pvp kitten that was the best MMO PvP ever. but my team/friends left the game.

Mesmers have been playing Berzerker specs for the past kittening 12 months. Being a dominant force for the majority of the year. They had to overbuff the kitten out of other professions to actually decrease the mesmer presence because it is that strong.

Jamais vu.5284:

Or maybe you just need to realize that you can’t play ele.

Please don’t just insult me and not respond to any of the points. By your logic, I guess nobody can play ele b/c nobody playing them is doing as much for their teams as they could be on any other class. The best ele playstyle doesn’t even play its role optimally: thief/mesmer burst more reliably/better, and any semi-bunker or balanced build doesn’t stand up to pressure at all. If you want a “jack of all trades” or variety, the engineer is that way —>

Do you even have any experience as an ele? You don’t seem to in the past few months since major nerfs, so perhaps you should try them yourself and see how you do versus competent opponents.

@John: Can you please tell me if you have any intention of have a look at Eles state at the moment. I play Eles since day 1 and in my point of view, Eles is in a VERY VERY horrid state right now? So will the next balance patch change the way Eles now? By simply answer Yes or No, I will whether stick with the game for another month or drop the game completely because I run out of patience after 1 year of waiting. Cheers.