Guild Wars 2

knight.8926:

Stin.9781:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

However you try to justify it this is ridiculous. At least a thief has an entire build devoted to being a quick gib setup, whereas a mesmer can run this setup and have…

1)Instant 10k AREA BURST with more for single target.
2)Portal for control over home point and middle, allowing to contribute in contested team battles.
3)Time warp to give a team area HASTE for 10 seconds for quickness stomps and quick kills.
4)The best duelist in the game.

And people wonder why mesmer is required on every team….

F1 + 1 ,222222222222222222222222

Nice non-rebuttal. I wouldn’t mind thief burst getting nerfed either, its just hilarious listening mesmers try to justify this. They bring so much more to the team other than their damage, which is in many ways more insane than thieves. The only thing they are lacking in is on demand mobility, otherwise you’d be seeing 3 mesmer teams dominating every game.

then let’s not argue on the fact that mesmers need to use different types of skills to actually be useful and your complaining about that fact.

Every class uses different skills to be useful, hence why they are useful. Very few classes bring such all-encompassing utility and damage that the mesmer has in one build. Mesmer’s should have more viable builds for tournies, but this variant is WAYY over the top to the point it outshines anything else they could bring.

they do have more builds, its just a matter of ppl not generalizing that every single mesmer is a shatter build and that their MW is what makes that mesmer.

Im not gonna argue bout that, but answer these plz

1. Which one brings more help to team?
2. Which one can bunker.
3. Which one can burst other glass cannons from 100>0%
4.How many utilitys does it use to set up burst.

My answers
1.Mesmer
2.Mesmer
3.Both
4. Thief (assasins signet and elite)(45 seconds cd for)(steal available each 45 seconds only)
Mesmer( Takes 1 utility, almost same cd) burst available each 10 seconds

Mesmer has more often acess to burst, more team utility too AND he can bunker side point. If he only had mobility of thief i would never probably see thief ingame anymore.

mesmers can’t really bunker, they avoid damage using illusions…

They can defend point and not let enemy cap it, they can port in teammates to help him. Now please tell me how you imagine thief holding the point in glass cannon spec.

95% of the people on this thread have no reading comprehension.

THIS IS A BUG

There is a bug with shatters that will cause big broken damage if you go in a certain order. People in the know are being hush-hush because they don’t want this widely known. Somebody posted what is going on a few times in this thread however.

Devs know about this and it will be fixed.

Wise.8025:

Jumper.9482:

If I had 0.25 seconds to react to him summoning extra clones and shattering like inbetween Thief hits, then fine, I’d say its relatively balanced and it was my fault for not reacting and not shadowstepping away in time like I do to 90% of the thieves that try that combo on me.
But he shattered me with clones that didn’t even appear on my screen until I was down. (for 3k+ per hit, mind you. As much as your standard 50-25% heartseeker.)

Excellent point Jumper. As much as your standard 50-25% heartseeker, which can be spammed vs a mesmer shatter which is on a CD.
…..

You guys are pathetic. You are taking his words completely out of context.
It is one thing to get hit instantly by 16K. It is completely another to be exposed to the chain of 4 × 4K that takes 3 seconds to complete and can be easily dodged. (I will not even get into the fact that HS makes that kind of dmg when target is low health, while mesmer spike makes that dmg without any condition).

Stin.9781:

knight.8926:

Stin.9781:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

knight.8926:

condiments.8043:

However you try to justify it this is ridiculous. At least a thief has an entire build devoted to being a quick gib setup, whereas a mesmer can run this setup and have…

1)Instant 10k AREA BURST with more for single target.
2)Portal for control over home point and middle, allowing to contribute in contested team battles.
3)Time warp to give a team area HASTE for 10 seconds for quickness stomps and quick kills.
4)The best duelist in the game.

And people wonder why mesmer is required on every team….

F1 + 1 ,222222222222222222222222

Nice non-rebuttal. I wouldn’t mind thief burst getting nerfed either, its just hilarious listening mesmers try to justify this. They bring so much more to the team other than their damage, which is in many ways more insane than thieves. The only thing they are lacking in is on demand mobility, otherwise you’d be seeing 3 mesmer teams dominating every game.

then let’s not argue on the fact that mesmers need to use different types of skills to actually be useful and your complaining about that fact.

Every class uses different skills to be useful, hence why they are useful. Very few classes bring such all-encompassing utility and damage that the mesmer has in one build. Mesmer’s should have more viable builds for tournies, but this variant is WAYY over the top to the point it outshines anything else they could bring.

they do have more builds, its just a matter of ppl not generalizing that every single mesmer is a shatter build and that their MW is what makes that mesmer.

Im not gonna argue bout that, but answer these plz

1. Which one brings more help to team?
2. Which one can bunker.
3. Which one can burst other glass cannons from 100>0%
4.How many utilitys does it use to set up burst.

My answers
1.Mesmer
2.Mesmer
3.Both
4. Thief (assasins signet and elite)(45 seconds cd for)(steal available each 45 seconds only)
Mesmer( Takes 1 utility, almost same cd) burst available each 10 seconds

Mesmer has more often acess to burst, more team utility too AND he can bunker side point. If he only had mobility of thief i would never probably see thief ingame anymore.

mesmers can’t really bunker, they avoid damage using illusions…

They can defend point and not let enemy cap it, they can port in teammates to help him. Now please tell me how you imagine thief holding the point in glass cannon spec.

I’m not helping you out if you can’t figure it out yourself, that’s the problem ppl have. They don’t want to figure it out for themselves.

SteepledHat.1345:

Mufa.1326:

Trigr.6481:

I really don’t see why your upset about this encounter.
….

What is upsetting is that he got taken from 100% to 0 instantly (AOE on top of that and with low cooldown).
Note that mesmer could react to his burst because thief’s burst is fast but not instant.
Thief could not react to mesmers burst, because mesmer’s burst is instant.
What thief could have done is ‘predict’ how mesmer is going to react and then dodge before proceeding with his burst.
Note that ‘predicting’ what other player is going to do and take action in advance is completely different than ‘reacting’ to what he is doing.

Luckily, devs are fixing this, problem solved.

You can’t react to most thief burst since most thief burst comes right after they unstealth. However, most thieves do the same thing over and over. So they’re very predictable.

I’d also like to point out that if a mes downed you like it did in the video, a warrior’s burst would crush you. So let’s nerf them too!

If you cannot react to thief burst, then you hare really slow and you cannot differentiate between 1second burst and instant burst (which is a huge difference). Which begs a question, what are you doing in this discussion?

Bringing warrior burst into this is laughable. Warrior burst is the slowest of all mentioned. It takes frenzy/charge/100b. Even if you get hit with the charge (which can be dodged even when hasted) you have to stand there for 1.5 sec and not stun break in order to die to warrior burst. Warrior burst is simply the worst of all mentioned bursts and it is for killing bad/slow players, or you have to force the enemy to burn his stun breaks, and then hit him with relatively slow charge (0.5s hasted) in order to really land it.
I guarantee you that any warrior would take ‘50 blades’ over ‘100 blades’ that does half the dmg but it is instant.

quercus.9261:

95% of the people on this thread have no reading comprehension.

THIS IS A BUG

There is a bug with shatters that will cause big broken damage if you go in a certain order. People in the know are being hush-hush because they don’t want this widely known. Somebody posted what is going on a few times in this thread however.

Devs know about this and it will be fixed.

Is this a recent bug? Because mesmer still did pretty big damage even before the patch too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpE2k3ZN1vU

At least you can react to this, but its still pretty high on a 1700 toughness target.

The damage itself is not OP.
I’m not saying Mesmer is OP.
I’m not saying Thief is weak.
Just sitting here lol’ing at all the newbs who are saying “l2p”, etc…
I’d like to mention how many times I’ve played on equal(or higher) footing with the top Mesmers in the game (Enshadowed, Xee, Sataar, Zyzzyx, JSage, etc… ). Also you’re mad to think I wouldn’t swap to shortbow unless I were using my 45sec cd burst. FYI, I killed the mesmer and took his point twice before this fight.
I’m saying every single burst in this game EXCEPT MESMER can be countered. Warrior is a joke to stunbreak out of and everyone knows they are among the worst classes in the game. Thieves give you a 1/4 to 3/4 second window.
I would like to see at least a 0.2 second cooldown proc on shatter after summoning clones. Or maybe a 0.1 second global cooldown across each shatter. This way I have time to react to what my opponent is doing and counter accordingly. This puts it in line with every.other.class. I don’t even care if you increase the damage by 50%. Make it not instantaneous.

stop playing glass cannon and u wont get owned by other glass cannon

Stin.9781:

Im not gonna argue bout that, but answer these plz

1. Which one brings more help to team?
2. Which one can bunker.
3. Which one can burst other glass cannons from 100>0%
4.How many utilitys does it use to set up burst.

My answers
1.Mesmer
2.Mesmer
3.Both
4. Thief (assasins signet and elite)(45 seconds cd for)(steal available each 45 seconds only)
Mesmer( Takes 1 utility, almost same cd) burst available each 10 seconds

Mesmer has more often acess to burst, more team utility too AND he can bunker side point. If he only had mobility of thief i would never probably see thief ingame anymore.

In a single build?

To believe these forums, mesmers are Op because they’ll turn invisible at the drop of a hat, portal about, shatter your face off, render themselves nigh immortal with blurred frenzy, reflect half your attacks, stack confusion up the wazoo, blink out of harms way, and hit you with 4 phantasms at a time, moa you and gun you down with time warp. All this from the bunkered safety of chaos storm and high toughness armour…

The fact is, while most of the above is certainly possible… you’d need 3 elite slots, 5 utility slots, 90 trait points and 3 weapon swaps to come close to pulling this off :p

People pick and mix their personally most fearred features of every mesmer build and use it to create a demonic image of a mesmer that just doesn’t exist.

condiments.8043:

quercus.9261:

95% of the people on this thread have no reading comprehension.

THIS IS A BUG

There is a bug with shatters that will cause big broken damage if you go in a certain order. People in the know are being hush-hush because they don’t want this widely known. Somebody posted what is going on a few times in this thread however.

Devs know about this and it will be fixed.

Is this a recent bug? Because mesmer still did pretty big damage even before the patch too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpE2k3ZN1vU

At least you can react to this, but its still pretty high on a 1700 toughness target.

He had all the time in the world to elixer S lol.. His fault for getting hit by the illusionary leap, immobilizing him.

instagibs are fine for an FPS but don’t belong in an MMO. Min TTK should be at least 5secs.

This is why I will never enjoy playing burst mesmer or burst thief. E-sports announcer… “hiding…hiding…still hiding…hiding…hiding…BUR- thief is down, mesmer 20%!”

Seriously, both players lost roughly the same amount of hp (~16k) in about a half-second. I’m not sure how either side can complain about that, as the entire duel was bait-burst.

Jumper.9482:

The damage itself is not OP.
I’m not saying Mesmer is OP.
I’m not saying Thief is weak.
Just sitting here lol’ing at all the newbs who are saying “l2p”, etc…
I’d like to mention how many times I’ve played on equal(or higher) footing with the top Mesmers in the game (Enshadowed, Xee, Sataar, Zyzzyx, JSage, etc… ). Also you’re mad to think I wouldn’t swap to shortbow unless I were using my 45sec cd burst. FYI, I killed the mesmer and took his point twice before this fight.
I’m saying every single burst in this game EXCEPT MESMER can be countered. Warrior is a joke to stunbreak out of and everyone knows they are among the worst classes in the game. Thieves give you a 1/4 to 3/4 second window.
I would like to see at least a 0.2 second cooldown proc on shatter after summoning clones. Or maybe a 0.1 second global cooldown across each shatter. This way I have time to react to what my opponent is doing and counter accordingly. This puts it in line with every.other.class. I don’t even care if you increase the damage by 50%. Make it not instantaneous.

The flip side of that, but I don’t like where this leads for thief:
That’s fine as long as when ever a thief uses stealth there is a .2 second cooldown AFTER they have rendered on the screen and before they can resume wailing away on people. Also remove the instantaneous and queued abilities of thief, but increase their damage to previous levels.

Preferred adjustment:
Point blank vs any class when taking damage you’re going to get hit for some of the damage. I understand that despite this being a highly situational occurrence that did not require the clones to run to their target it felt very unfair. Maybe it would have been possible to have one or both clones spawn slightly further away or more spread out thus allowing that moment of awareness that alert players can react to.

They’re mutually nonsensical.

Wise.8025:

Jumper.9482:

The damage itself is not OP.
I’m not saying Mesmer is OP.
I’m not saying Thief is weak.
Just sitting here lol’ing at all the newbs who are saying “l2p”, etc…
I’d like to mention how many times I’ve played on equal(or higher) footing with the top Mesmers in the game (Enshadowed, Xee, Sataar, Zyzzyx, JSage, etc… ). Also you’re mad to think I wouldn’t swap to shortbow unless I were using my 45sec cd burst. FYI, I killed the mesmer and took his point twice before this fight.
I’m saying every single burst in this game EXCEPT MESMER can be countered. Warrior is a joke to stunbreak out of and everyone knows they are among the worst classes in the game. Thieves give you a 1/4 to 3/4 second window.
I would like to see at least a 0.2 second cooldown proc on shatter after summoning clones. Or maybe a 0.1 second global cooldown across each shatter. This way I have time to react to what my opponent is doing and counter accordingly. This puts it in line with every.other.class. I don’t even care if you increase the damage by 50%. Make it not instantaneous.

The flip side of that, but I don’t like where this leads for thief:
That’s fine as long as when ever a thief uses stealth there is a .2 second cooldown AFTER they have rendered on the screen and before they can resume wailing away on people. Also remove the instantaneous and queued abilities of thief, but increase their damage to previous levels.

Preferred adjustment:
Point blank vs any class when taking damage you’re going to get hit for some of the damage. I understand that despite this being a highly situational occurrence that did not require the clones to run to their target it felt very unfair. Maybe it would have been possible to have one or both clones spawn slightly further away or more spread out thus allowing that moment of awareness that alert players can react to.

?? Because everyone else gets so much awareness when a thief comes from left field unseen and steal—> basilisk venom—>backstab…. Heartseeker spam, If they are going to say its fine for thief and other burst classes to do this, they have to keep that standard amongst all classes. The Mesmer was about to be insta gibbed and was stunned, he popped his stun break and shattered, defending himself, nothing wrong with that. Now I know there is a bug right now with mesmers shatters, and I’m not defending that, if that’s what happened then it needs to be fixed. Thieves have no right to complain about any burst damage whn they have been doing this to noobs and players with stun breakers down for the last 4 months. The tables are turned and now they try and call op, it doesn’t work like that. (Unless its the shatter but then that needs to be fixed)

condiments.8043:

quercus.9261:

95% of the people on this thread have no reading comprehension.

THIS IS A BUG

There is a bug with shatters that will cause big broken damage if you go in a certain order. People in the know are being hush-hush because they don’t want this widely known. Somebody posted what is going on a few times in this thread however.

Devs know about this and it will be fixed.

Is this a recent bug? Because mesmer still did pretty big damage even before the patch too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpE2k3ZN1vU

At least you can react to this, but its still pretty high on a 1700 toughness target.

No, it’s only become a huge issue now because of the might stacking.

I hope they fix it rather than just straight-nerf something.

I don’t like being nerfed over a bug.

Jumper.9482:

condiments.8043:

quercus.9261:

95% of the people on this thread have no reading comprehension.

THIS IS A BUG

There is a bug with shatters that will cause big broken damage if you go in a certain order. People in the know are being hush-hush because they don’t want this widely known. Somebody posted what is going on a few times in this thread however.

Devs know about this and it will be fixed.

Is this a recent bug? Because mesmer still did pretty big damage even before the patch too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpE2k3ZN1vU

At least you can react to this, but its still pretty high on a 1700 toughness target.

He had all the time in the world to elixer S lol.. His fault for getting hit by the illusionary leap, immobilizing him.

correct me if i’m wrong, but it looks like he’s not using elixir S in his build, though it would have saved him.

he did pop a stun break (elixir R) but the mesmer perma stunned/dazed his kitten for the entire duration, he couldn’t even toss elixir R if he was trying to. now THAT kitten is op cause you would need 24 stun breaks to get out of his situation lmao.

edit: nvm, you can’t get out of the situation with stun breaks cause he was dazed and immobilized, so he basically had to sit there n eat his burst

Mesmer so called burst damage requires illusions to run at you to get within AOE range of the shatter. Guess what, the illusions are SLOW. If you get caught that close to them you deserve to be bursted down. Once you see those illusions are close to you put some distance and gee no problem. I duke it out with a guildie warrior and he learned to keep distance from my illusions and he now usually wins. At first I was the majority winner. Mind wrack is the only burst damage the mesmer has and is critical in pve. Nerfing this will jeopardize the mesmer’s contribution on that side of the fence. But, of course Anet will hear your whine. Here’s my whine, why is the total CD duration sum of skills of the mesmer the longest out of all professions. Let’s add some CD time to the other professions to make them the equivalent and then we will see.

im gonna say what happen : you play bad because you try atack on melee a mesmer with already 2 clones up, if you are a canon glass thief you cant do that you will die in seconds.

this wasnt a OP mesmer issue, was just a very bad move by the thief.

i dont know the lvl of the thief in video but this mistake is common on low lvl thief. rwally nothing important see here, you play bad period.

a thief canon glass complain about mesmer burst? are you serious? you have more burst than the mesmer, you can backstab him for 9-10k, mug for 6k (mesmer shatter only have 18k health) you can kill him more quick than he can kill you but for that you need know what are you doing.

never try atack a mesmer surround by clones, is a suicide move

possante.8310:

im gonna say what happen : you play bad because you try atack on melee a mesmer with already 2 clones up, if you are a canon glass thief you cant do that you will die in seconds.

this wasnt a OP mesmer issue, was just a very bad move by the thief.

i dont know the lvl of the thief in video but this mistake is common on low lvl thief. rwally nothing important see here, you play bad period.

Really? So melee should not approach mesmer who has two clones up? Wow, what a great game design you have in mind. Do you understand how easy it is for mesmer to get two clones up? And then it is game over for melee?

No it is not ‘bad move by the thief’ it is ‘severely OP mesmer class’ if it is true (and currently it is) that melee player should not approach mesmer who has 2-3 clones up already and sitting among them because mesmer can just instantly ‘blow him up’.

Can’t really reproduce the thing….

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

im gonna say what happen : you play bad because you try atack on melee a mesmer with already 2 clones up, if you are a canon glass thief you cant do that you will die in seconds.

this wasnt a OP mesmer issue, was just a very bad move by the thief.

i dont know the lvl of the thief in video but this mistake is common on low lvl thief. rwally nothing important see here, you play bad period.

Really? So melee should not approach mesmer who has two clones up? Wow, what a great game design you have in mind. Do you understand how easy it is for mesmer to get two clones up? And then it is game over for melee?

No it is not ‘bad move by the thief’ it is ‘severely OP mesmer class’ if it is true (and currently it is) that melee player should not approach mesmer who has 2-3 clones up already and sitting among them because mesmer can just instantly ‘blow him up’.

yes and i will say again. use your shortbow, that weapon isnt just for run away when you are almost dead.

mesmer can create clones easy, you with your shortbow can kill all with just one shot.

please explain me how easy is to have 2 clones always up, he will spend all dodge? he need have mirror images? ( and that mean or he dont have blink or null field wich will make him a easy kill) ne need have a target to create phantasm?

if he is using staff is a easy kill for a thief just use your shortbow, shatter mesmer with staff do almost 0 damage with staff

if you are a thief use trick shot and cluster bomb to destroy clones , if you dont use it to destroy clones you are basically a rookie thief

uhh, possante i think a mesmer with staff vs thief shortbow that mesmer will win. chaos armor, chaos storm, block gg? and ifu have chaos armor u’ll miss attacks and the illusions/phantasm hitting you too. i tried it and a thief will lose.
and btw, jumper i don’t think actually a thief got the right to complain about mesmer, cus you can 1 shot like he does and even faster probaly, ur using 1 then f1 but if u do cnd f1 1 u take like from 100 to 0 ? and do it with haste and ur making a new world record.
and narcsasis or something is saying hes an expert in dodging thief. but i doubt it tbh, what can u do if ur being zerged by a thief with haste? i don’t think u’ll survive him.

and instead of attacking like that, i would make adventage of the place where u was fighting. u fought at henge, u can just use shortbow, cluster and 4 and go LoS and auto attack the illusion, wihc will bounce to the real one. and u can’t expect a glass vs glass to not die instant.
tip : use haste and do the cnd rotation and try to kill people, and see if they complain about thieves

Don’t know why a nobody is telling highly skilled Thieves on what to do. Have you actually fought these people in-game at their prime? You probably couldn’t prove anything because you will either not last a few seconds or you are ALL WORDS and no action.

On topic, if highly skilled players are saying (and are within reason) its broken then it needs to be fixed. What all these low-skill nobodies are doing is making harmful suggestions to both competitive and casual worlds. It is THAT simple.

I don’t get why these very same people think Mesmers are fine as is even with the Macro. Complaining about Thieves when Thief is more balanced than Mesmer ever will be.

And when ppl say that Thiefs are strong ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/State-of-tPvP-Top-10-QP-Perspective/first ) , and they are more than viable and* represantable class in tPvP , random ppl should be quiet and not spouting nonsense in the Thief megathread (<<hurp durp Thief are useless and noexistance in higher lvl tPvP>>)(the same are speaking here) … It is THAT simple .

Edit: I am sorry for all the classes exept Thiefs :P

It’s not just glassy players that are feeling the impact of the new Mesmer burst.

Even tanks are getting decimated. Watch this Guardian fight against two enemy Mesmers. He’s constantly getting hit for 10k from shatters. 10k, 10k again, and 10k once more. It’s ridiculous.

LOL @ thief qqing on the forum because once he got burst down the way thieves burst glass cannons 24/7

LOL @ people who say the Mesmer used macro…you confused a pebble for a mountain. The best I’ve played against (top 20 LOL EU West) are WAYYY faster than that – yet they are not nearly as quick as actual esport champions like Taipei Assassins are. If you guys want to play competitively you’d better man up

zone.1073:

It’s not just glassy players that are feeling the impact of the new Mesmer burst.

Even tanks are getting decimated. Watch this Guardian fight against two enemy Mesmers. He’s constantly getting hit for 10k from shatters. 10k, 10k again, and 10k once more. It’s ridiculous.

snip

Lol, the guardian in the video is holding an entry party for more then 30 sec while begin alone. After 50 sec the skirmish start, one wilde necro appear, debuffing, conditioning and lifestealing the kitten out of him.
What you wrote it’s ludicrus and offtopic altogether.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1HS8YYTSX7I#t=90s

As for contribute to the topic; wahaaaaaaaa. Please Anet, nerf the mesmer more! thief should be able to one hit those slippery wet noodle. wahhaaaa.

Kirei.1792:

uhh, possante i think a mesmer with staff vs thief shortbow that mesmer will win. chaos armor, chaos storm, block gg? and ifu have chaos armor u’ll miss attacks and the illusions/phantasm hitting you too. i tried it and a thief will lose.
and btw, jumper i don’t think actually a thief got the right to complain about mesmer, cus you can 1 shot like he does and even faster probaly, ur using 1 then f1 but if u do cnd f1 1 u take like from 100 to 0 ? and do it with haste and ur making a new world record.
and narcsasis or something is saying hes an expert in dodging thief. but i doubt it tbh, what can u do if ur being zerged by a thief with haste? i don’t think u’ll survive him.

and instead of attacking like that, i would make adventage of the place where u was fighting. u fought at henge, u can just use shortbow, cluster and 4 and go LoS and auto attack the illusion, wihc will bounce to the real one. and u can’t expect a glass vs glass to not die instant.
tip : use haste and do the cnd rotation and try to kill people, and see if they complain about thieves

if you are a shatter mesmer you condition damage is low, the thief with skill 1 and 2 will destroy all your illusion in seconds (clones arent a problem at range) and even with chaos armour he can keep auto atack you because your condition damage is low and him with auto atack is doing to you more damage than you with condition damage.

staff auto atack is more a melee weapon than a range weapon and in a shatter mesmer is pure defensive weapon with low damage, he just need kill the warlock.

this was the reason why i change staff for GS, fight thief that only want backstab me i could kill them easy ( just like in the video) but if the thief was good and actually know how to use shortbow when i change to staff i was pretty much dead, they leap backward destroy all my illusion easy and spamm auto atack and i was unable to do any damage.

possante.8310:

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

im gonna say what happen : you play bad because you try atack on melee a mesmer with already 2 clones up, if you are a canon glass thief you cant do that you will die in seconds.

this wasnt a OP mesmer issue, was just a very bad move by the thief.

i dont know the lvl of the thief in video but this mistake is common on low lvl thief. rwally nothing important see here, you play bad period.

Really? So melee should not approach mesmer who has two clones up? Wow, what a great game design you have in mind. Do you understand how easy it is for mesmer to get two clones up? And then it is game over for melee?

No it is not ‘bad move by the thief’ it is ‘severely OP mesmer class’ if it is true (and currently it is) that melee player should not approach mesmer who has 2-3 clones up already and sitting among them because mesmer can just instantly ‘blow him up’.

yes and i will say again. use your shortbow, that weapon isnt just for run away when you are almost dead.

mesmer can create clones easy, you with your shortbow can kill all with just one shot.

please explain me how easy is to have 2 clones always up, he will spend all dodge? he need have mirror images? ( and that mean or he dont have blink or null field wich will make him a easy kill) ne need have a target to create phantasm?

if he is using staff is a easy kill for a thief just use your shortbow, shatter mesmer with staff do almost 0 damage with staff

if you are a thief use trick shot and cluster bomb to destroy clones , if you dont use it to destroy clones you are basically a rookie thief

And I will tell you again: If mesmer with two clones is a ‘no-go-zone’ for melee then the class is broken.

Players should not be forced to carry ranged option just to deal with mesmer class. Mesmer class needs fixing. And fix is incoming (devs have spoken).

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

im gonna say what happen : you play bad because you try atack on melee a mesmer with already 2 clones up, if you are a canon glass thief you cant do that you will die in seconds.

this wasnt a OP mesmer issue, was just a very bad move by the thief.

i dont know the lvl of the thief in video but this mistake is common on low lvl thief. rwally nothing important see here, you play bad period.

Really? So melee should not approach mesmer who has two clones up? Wow, what a great game design you have in mind. Do you understand how easy it is for mesmer to get two clones up? And then it is game over for melee?

No it is not ‘bad move by the thief’ it is ‘severely OP mesmer class’ if it is true (and currently it is) that melee player should not approach mesmer who has 2-3 clones up already and sitting among them because mesmer can just instantly ‘blow him up’.

yes and i will say again. use your shortbow, that weapon isnt just for run away when you are almost dead.

mesmer can create clones easy, you with your shortbow can kill all with just one shot.

please explain me how easy is to have 2 clones always up, he will spend all dodge? he need have mirror images? ( and that mean or he dont have blink or null field wich will make him a easy kill) ne need have a target to create phantasm?

if he is using staff is a easy kill for a thief just use your shortbow, shatter mesmer with staff do almost 0 damage with staff

if you are a thief use trick shot and cluster bomb to destroy clones , if you dont use it to destroy clones you are basically a rookie thief

And I will tell you again: If mesmer with two clones is a ‘no-go-zone’ for melee then the class is broken.

Players should not be forced to carry ranged option just to deal with mesmer class. Mesmer class needs fixing. And fix is incoming (devs have spoken).

Funny, because you could say the same for a warrior executing hundred blade and whirlwind..
or a thief in CnD with backstab and hearseeker off initiative.. or an D/D elementalist ready for initiating it’s rotation.
I can go on, but I don’t really see the point you’ll guy’s are making.

Tekla.2139:

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

im gonna say what happen : you play bad because you try atack on melee a mesmer with already 2 clones up, if you are a canon glass thief you cant do that you will die in seconds.

this wasnt a OP mesmer issue, was just a very bad move by the thief.

i dont know the lvl of the thief in video but this mistake is common on low lvl thief. rwally nothing important see here, you play bad period.

Really? So melee should not approach mesmer who has two clones up? Wow, what a great game design you have in mind. Do you understand how easy it is for mesmer to get two clones up? And then it is game over for melee?

No it is not ‘bad move by the thief’ it is ‘severely OP mesmer class’ if it is true (and currently it is) that melee player should not approach mesmer who has 2-3 clones up already and sitting among them because mesmer can just instantly ‘blow him up’.

yes and i will say again. use your shortbow, that weapon isnt just for run away when you are almost dead.

mesmer can create clones easy, you with your shortbow can kill all with just one shot.

please explain me how easy is to have 2 clones always up, he will spend all dodge? he need have mirror images? ( and that mean or he dont have blink or null field wich will make him a easy kill) ne need have a target to create phantasm?

if he is using staff is a easy kill for a thief just use your shortbow, shatter mesmer with staff do almost 0 damage with staff

if you are a thief use trick shot and cluster bomb to destroy clones , if you dont use it to destroy clones you are basically a rookie thief

And I will tell you again: If mesmer with two clones is a ‘no-go-zone’ for melee then the class is broken.

Players should not be forced to carry ranged option just to deal with mesmer class. Mesmer class needs fixing. And fix is incoming (devs have spoken).

Funny, because you could say the same for a warrior executing hundred blade and whirlwind..
or a thief in CnD with backstab and hearseeker off initiative.. or an D/D elementalist ready for initiating it’s rotation.
I can go on, but I don’t really see the point you’ll guy’s are making.

And you fail again. Mesmer having two clones up is a permanent state unless you do something about it.

Warrior executing skills you mentioned is a 3 second state. Same with thief executing his combo. So all you need to do is wait it out for 3 sec and danger will pass. With mesmer you cannot wait the clones out.

So, if you want to compare them, then this feature should be put in: whenever mesmer gets 2 (or more) illusions up, he has 3 seconds to do something with them before they self destruct. Is that fine with you?

Mufa.1326:

Tekla.2139:

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

im gonna say what happen : you play bad because you try atack on melee a mesmer with already 2 clones up, if you are a canon glass thief you cant do that you will die in seconds.

this wasnt a OP mesmer issue, was just a very bad move by the thief.

i dont know the lvl of the thief in video but this mistake is common on low lvl thief. rwally nothing important see here, you play bad period.

Really? So melee should not approach mesmer who has two clones up? Wow, what a great game design you have in mind. Do you understand how easy it is for mesmer to get two clones up? And then it is game over for melee?

No it is not ‘bad move by the thief’ it is ‘severely OP mesmer class’ if it is true (and currently it is) that melee player should not approach mesmer who has 2-3 clones up already and sitting among them because mesmer can just instantly ‘blow him up’.

yes and i will say again. use your shortbow, that weapon isnt just for run away when you are almost dead.

mesmer can create clones easy, you with your shortbow can kill all with just one shot.

please explain me how easy is to have 2 clones always up, he will spend all dodge? he need have mirror images? ( and that mean or he dont have blink or null field wich will make him a easy kill) ne need have a target to create phantasm?

if he is using staff is a easy kill for a thief just use your shortbow, shatter mesmer with staff do almost 0 damage with staff

if you are a thief use trick shot and cluster bomb to destroy clones , if you dont use it to destroy clones you are basically a rookie thief

And I will tell you again: If mesmer with two clones is a ‘no-go-zone’ for melee then the class is broken.

Players should not be forced to carry ranged option just to deal with mesmer class. Mesmer class needs fixing. And fix is incoming (devs have spoken).

Funny, because you could say the same for a warrior executing hundred blade and whirlwind..
or a thief in CnD with backstab and hearseeker off initiative.. or an D/D elementalist ready for initiating it’s rotation.
I can go on, but I don’t really see the point you’ll guy’s are making.

And you fail again. Mesmer having two clones up is a permanent state unless you do something about it.

Warrior executing skills you mentioned is a 3 second state. Same with thief executing his combo. So all you need to do is wait it out for 3 sec and danger will pass. With mesmer you cannot wait the clones out.

So, if you want to compare them, then this feature should be put in: whenever mesmer gets 2 (or more) illusions up, he has 3 seconds to do something with them before they self destruct. Is that fine with you?

As far I know, mesmer come in a flavor that disallow the permantent illusion state. In fact mesmer, need a target to be able in it’s casting, also, did you know that clone and illusion become inactive, and also ineffective or implode after a certain time passed w/o a target? it seems not, so, you know right what follow.. learn to play? before making stupid statment about something u don’t have any clue. ( yes, it’s already there dude ) Also, for answering your suggestion; I would not mind if the shatter would become an instant 1200 range AoE projectile skill while all phantasma would insta-deal damage upon their summoning. Clone on the other hand, should still need to be decoy tool’s and they should still keep their heritage as function.

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

im gonna say what happen : you play bad because you try atack on melee a mesmer with already 2 clones up, if you are a canon glass thief you cant do that you will die in seconds.

this wasnt a OP mesmer issue, was just a very bad move by the thief.

i dont know the lvl of the thief in video but this mistake is common on low lvl thief. rwally nothing important see here, you play bad period.

Really? So melee should not approach mesmer who has two clones up? Wow, what a great game design you have in mind. Do you understand how easy it is for mesmer to get two clones up? And then it is game over for melee?

No it is not ‘bad move by the thief’ it is ‘severely OP mesmer class’ if it is true (and currently it is) that melee player should not approach mesmer who has 2-3 clones up already and sitting among them because mesmer can just instantly ‘blow him up’.

yes and i will say again. use your shortbow, that weapon isnt just for run away when you are almost dead.

mesmer can create clones easy, you with your shortbow can kill all with just one shot.

please explain me how easy is to have 2 clones always up, he will spend all dodge? he need have mirror images? ( and that mean or he dont have blink or null field wich will make him a easy kill) ne need have a target to create phantasm?

if he is using staff is a easy kill for a thief just use your shortbow, shatter mesmer with staff do almost 0 damage with staff

if you are a thief use trick shot and cluster bomb to destroy clones , if you dont use it to destroy clones you are basically a rookie thief

And I will tell you again: If mesmer with two clones is a ‘no-go-zone’ for melee then the class is broken.

Players should not be forced to carry ranged option just to deal with mesmer class. Mesmer class needs fixing. And fix is incoming (devs have spoken).

Mate, your bias is causing you to argue yourself into a hole.

How long has every other player been saying that we are forced to carry multiple stun breaks because of the thieves and warriors burst, and that they are the only class that you really need to do that for? Well the thief community said deal with it. How long have players been complaining about getting hit for insane damage by thieves and others? The thief community said “Don’t run glass cannon spec” so everyone else said, oh right thieves are the only ones allowed to run GC spec. How long have players been complaining about be insta-gibbed by thieves without a chance to fight back? Thieves said just dodge, stun break, immunity, blind, cc, all of these are hard counters to thieves burst. So guess what? The rest of the community, (besides a few) adapted we were forced to change our playstyles to deal with thieves and other burst, so guess what? Now it’s your turn. Blind, daze, DODGE, stun, knockback, STEALTH, line of sight, pull out your shortbow and use kittening auto attack, cluster bomb, Shadow step, blinding powder, ALL of these are hard counters to Mesmer. God forbid you have to change your playstyle from C&D, mug, backstab, heart seeker spam. You guys have been telling everyone for he last 4 months to stop QQ’ing and L2P, and now all of a sudden someone has found a way to counter the thief like you have told us? Now you guys are raging because your tactics might have to change!? All you have to do is just dodge to negate the whole burst, isn’t that right? Isn’t it?

Adapt your playstyle, god forbid you have to do what thieves told us, change your build learn the class, learn the obvious animations. I’m not going to say what thieves have told everyone else and stop qq’ing and l2p.

Disclaimer: I have no problem with thieves burst, or warriors, I don’t think it’s ridiculously op, I don’t care about needing thieves or warriors or any other classes, I am just pointing out what I have seen happen the last 4 months.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

Mufa.1326:

possante.8310:

im gonna say what happen : you play bad because you try atack on melee a mesmer with already 2 clones up, if you are a canon glass thief you cant do that you will die in seconds.

this wasnt a OP mesmer issue, was just a very bad move by the thief.

i dont know the lvl of the thief in video but this mistake is common on low lvl thief. rwally nothing important see here, you play bad period.

Really? So melee should not approach mesmer who has two clones up? Wow, what a great game design you have in mind. Do you understand how easy it is for mesmer to get two clones up? And then it is game over for melee?

No it is not ‘bad move by the thief’ it is ‘severely OP mesmer class’ if it is true (and currently it is) that melee player should not approach mesmer who has 2-3 clones up already and sitting among them because mesmer can just instantly ‘blow him up’.

yes and i will say again. use your shortbow, that weapon isnt just for run away when you are almost dead.

mesmer can create clones easy, you with your shortbow can kill all with just one shot.

please explain me how easy is to have 2 clones always up, he will spend all dodge? he need have mirror images? ( and that mean or he dont have blink or null field wich will make him a easy kill) ne need have a target to create phantasm?

if he is using staff is a easy kill for a thief just use your shortbow, shatter mesmer with staff do almost 0 damage with staff

if you are a thief use trick shot and cluster bomb to destroy clones , if you dont use it to destroy clones you are basically a rookie thief

And I will tell you again: If mesmer with two clones is a ‘no-go-zone’ for melee then the class is broken.

Players should not be forced to carry ranged option just to deal with mesmer class. Mesmer class needs fixing. And fix is incoming (devs have spoken).

Mate, your bias is causing you to argue yourself into a hole.

How long has every other player been saying that we are forced to carry multiple stun breaks because of the thieves and warriors burst, and that they are the only class that you really need to do that for? Well the thief community said deal with it. How long have players been complaining about getting hit for insane damage by thieves and others? The thief community said “Don’t run glass cannon spec” so everyone else said, oh right thieves are the only ones allowed to run GC spec. How long have players been complaining about be insta-gibbed by thieves without a chance to fight back? Thieves said just dodge, stun break, immunity, blind, cc, all of these are hard counters to thieves burst. So guess what? The rest of the community, (besides a few) adapted we were forced to change our playstyles to deal with thieves and other burst, so guess what? Now it’s your turn. Blind, daze, DODGE, stun, knockback, STEALTH, line of sight, pull out your shortbow and use kittening auto attack, cluster bomb, Shadow step, blinding powder, ALL of these are hard counters to Mesmer. God forbid you have to change your playstyle from C&D, mug, backstab, heart seeker spam. You guys have been telling everyone for he last 4 months to stop QQ’ing and L2P, and now all of a sudden someone has found a way to counter the thief like you have told us? Now you guys are raging because your tactics might have to change!? All you have to do is just dodge to negate the whole burst, isn’t that right? Isn’t it?

Adapt your playstyle, god forbid you have to do what thieves told us, change your build learn the class, learn the obvious animations. I’m not going to say what thieves have told everyone else and stop qq’ing and l2p.

Disclaimer: I have no problem with thieves burst, or warriors, I don’t think it’s ridiculously op, I don’t care about needing thieves or warriors or any other classes, I am just pointing out what I have seen happen the last 4 months.

/threadwin

soko is actually a death blossom spammer, all the same though. the situation shown in the vid is easier to avoid than any thief burst. seeing glass thieves cry is quite amusing. waa I was only able to take 3/4 of his health in one shot and he killed me plz nerf!

Sprawl.3891:

I was only able to take 3/4 of his health in one shot and he killed me

Both players dealt roughly the same amount of damage in the same amount of time, the mesmer just has a higher base health pool.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Sprawl.3891:

I was only able to take 3/4 of his health in one shot and he killed me

Both players dealt roughly the same amount of damage in the same amount of time, the mesmer just has a higher base health pool.

And more team utility.

BS Thieves and HB Warriors can’t kill a decent bunker, but a skilled shatter mesmer with the new “glitch” can take down a full bunker in a matter of seconds, further compounded by the fact that if they don’t stay on point they lose it, whereas with a Thief, you can move, because a Thief in stealth can’t cap the point.

Just my opinion. I don’t really see how you can compare this to BS Thief or HB Warrior, I’ve never felt helpless against either, as I’ve always been able to use my stunbreak + counter. Here, if I mis-time my first dodge, I’m dead, even running with 2.7 k armor, if they can pull off the “glitch”.

aydenunited.5729:

BS Thieves and HB Warriors can’t kill a decent bunker, but a skilled shatter mesmer with the new “glitch” can take down a full bunker in a matter of seconds, further compounded by the fact that if they don’t stay on point they lose it, whereas with a Thief, you can move, because a Thief in stealth can’t cap the point.

Just my opinion. I don’t really see how you can compare this to BS Thief or HB Warrior, I’ve never felt helpless against either, as I’ve always been able to use my stunbreak + counter. Here, if I mis-time my first dodge, I’m dead, even running with 2.7 k armor, if they can pull off the “glitch”.

I don’t think anyone is defending the F3→F1 glitch but a lot of people are crying about the change to might stacking as well and that is not something that needs to change back.

aydenunited.5729:

BS Thieves and HB Warriors can’t kill a decent bunker, but a skilled shatter mesmer with the new “glitch” can take down a full bunker in a matter of seconds, further compounded by the fact that if they don’t stay on point they lose it, whereas with a Thief, you can move, because a Thief in stealth can’t cap the point.

Just my opinion. I don’t really see how you can compare this to BS Thief or HB Warrior, I’ve never felt helpless against either, as I’ve always been able to use my stunbreak + counter. Here, if I mis-time my first dodge, I’m dead, even running with 2.7 k armor, if they can pull off the “glitch”.

I think there some misconception going on, Sharp just seized the opportunity to beat the donkey more. The guy’s who’s posted his damage log was actually standing where the heavy training golem pack stand, just to let you know there is an area in the mist full of these golem.
He did x3 4100 DMG with mind wrack and forgot to mention that he was helped in buffing his illusion up to 25 stack of might while his party member debuffed and stacked 25 vulnerability on these static target before landing it’s mind wrack.
Mind wrack which, by the way would only hit for x3 3200 TOP if alone, also, this situation would only happen when all 3 illusion critted upon their simultaneous explosion. So, in reality on static target it’s happening 1 or 2 time out of 15 mind wrack, altho, ppl do move so, illusion hardly hit simultaneously.
The build, since there no video as proof, duo mine experiment, seems to be 30 domination 30 duelist 10 illusion, rune of the scholar, pvp berserk amulet.
This with all major trait utilized for mind wrack damage and it’s critical chance.

If there someone able to do replicate it’s damage, without the helping of any party member or something, please, be mine guest, open a thread and also don’t forget to provide more evidence of this behavior.

Maybe I’m getting these threads mixed up at this point, and I’m perfectly aware of golems in the mist. I’m also certain that I’ve seen this glitch personally and not just on test dummies, just as I’ve still seen Thieves that can Infiltrator’s Arrow past gates and perma-stealth even though those things are supposed to be fixed.

It hasn’t happened in a while but I’ll be sure to save the screenshot if it happens in live play again. Usually I don’t bother pulling up the death breakdown because I’m just eager to get back into the match.

Either way as one person said, I think I’ve just got my threads mixed up as I guess this thread isn’t about the bug but just about Mesmers in general so I’ll leave it be. For me, not playing Mesmer, I just have no idea how much of this of what I saw was in relation to the actual buff, and how much was due to a broken mechanic. I’m going to assume the majority of it was the bug, since at least for an Engineer, stacking might doesn’t suddenly make your damage THAT godly in burst.

Trick the game to think that you have 6 illusions instead of 3 when you Mind Wrack – get 4k crits.

@Sprawl.3891 : I do not use d/d so I cannot do ‘deathblossom’ once, much less spam it, sorry.

@BlueprintLFE.2358 : Did you even read the topic? It was explained clearly that the difference between thief/warrior bursts and mesmer burst is that former can be REACTED to, while mesmer cannot be REACTED to (since it is instant). So telling people to dodge or react in any other manner to it is nonsense unless you expect us to read mesmer’s mind and know when he is going to shatter.

Mufa.1326:

@Sprawl.3891 : I do not use d/d so I cannot do ‘deathblossom’ once, much less spam it, sorry.

@BlueprintLFE.2358 : Did you even read the topic? It was explained clearly that the difference between thief/warrior bursts and mesmer burst is that former can be REACTED to, while mesmer cannot be REACTED to (since it is instant). So telling people to dodge or react in any other manner to it is nonsense unless you expect us to read mesmer’s mind and know when he is going to shatter.

so youre p/d? Whatever, i just remember you whining in a hot join and saying “come 1v1 me bro” or something along those lines. Which as a thief is just lol worthy. And then you are in here crying about a mesmer one shotting a glass thief when glass thieves can 1 shot pretty much every other class. Thieves have been telling everyone “thats what u get for runnin a glass cannon spec” since release basically now you have another glass counter and you start whining and crying. Do you not realize how pathetic you are?

Here is a summary of how dumb you sound:

“i can do 16k damage in 1 rotation but another class can do the same and has 2k more health than me in their glass spec, so nerf them, not me”

It takes thief 0.25-0.75 seconds at the very least to do that kind of damage. (Or, in a Warrior’s case, 1-2 seconds)
More than enough time to shadowstep/endurepain/deathshroud/distortion/mistform/etc…
When a Mesmer can burst for the same amount in 0.01 seconds, this is NOT balanced.

I would even go as far as to say if Mesmers could burst 50k dmg but it took them a quarter second or more to do it, it would be balanced.

Removed the link to vid as it provoked too many trolls.

@sprawl
1. no i do not run p/d and what does it matter what I run anyway. How does it pertain to the topic. I can tell you I do not execute standard burst that 25/30/0/0/15 thieves execute so I do not have horse in the race so to speak (nerfing that burst would not affect me personally)
2. i do not have reason to whine in games, my kill/death ratio in spvp or duels is very high I assure u.
3. Thieves have been right, their statement should just be: “That is what you get for running a glass cannon spec and being too slow to react to the burst”. I go against burst thieves all the time and it is very easy to win against them. If you see them coming they have about 50% to land the initiation. And even if they land it (or you do not see them coming and they stun you) they cannot get in the backstab before you stun break out of it and roll away. It can definitely be reacted to. Mesmer burst cannot be reacted to since it is instant. Enjoy the well deserved nerf.
4. The rest of your post is nonsense that has nothing to do with topic. (What is that analogy even supposed to mean?)

The mesmer nees a nerf as in melee range burst is instant. No way to avoid it at all. And mesmer has 5k more hp+ team utilitys. Not that their burst is OP, unless you are in melee range(stunbreaks dont help there anymore).
At least i can stunbreak from thief or shadowstep away. Mesmer shatter is insant and you cant see it coming in melee range.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Trick the game to think that you have 6 illusions instead of 3 when you Mind Wrack – get 4k crits.

I’m not sure there such bug, I did give you already one explanation in regards this issue. Also, here the image posted;

http://i.imgur.com/Rchvc.jpg

By the time u push any shatter skill, illusion are unliked from the player table, also there the hard cap of 3 max for it.

Mufa.1326:

Mesmer burst cannot be reacted to since it is instant. Enjoy the well deserved nerf.

unless u standing right in the top of these illusion, shatter is far from begin instant, in fact, all illusion must move in the 140 range of it’s target to actually shatter.

So, here attached there a shoot of heartseeker doing 5,800 damage alone without any might buff and/or any vulnerability stack on the target, otherwise it would be 9.100 DMG from a single spammable skill. Add on the top on that stealth > CnD > Steal+Mug….. seriously?
Also, another funny fact did you know that with a warrior, u can’t even test hundred blade because those heavy golem have not the required health to use his ability?

nice thread…you know shatters are bugged atm.
and you attacked me while i had a phantasm and a clone out. phantasm hit aswell as every shatter crit (%4 chance with %45crit)
you did the same amount of damage to me and you can do it consistently, steal and basilisk is same cd as mirror images.
if %4 didn’t happen that heartseeker would have killed me, thats 2 globals…
i agree the frontloaded burst in this game is stupid.