Guild Wars 2

So if I’m not level 10 I cant get a helm or shoulders, and I’m therefore kittened and your once balanced way to pvp on a character of any level is now over. Am I right? If so I’m quitting or you had better fix some kitten quick because this is the dumbest thing ever.

But doesn’t helmet, shoulder, or gloves include defense? Or was that changed?

Justin ODell.9517:

Chest, leg, and boot are used. You’re fine without a helmet, shoulders, or gloves.

Can you explain the reasoning why we have to level up now to get our old ‘looks’ back?

Why can’t there be lvl 1 shoulders/helms etc at the vendor?

Justin ODell.9517:

Chest, leg, and boot are used. You’re fine without a helmet, shoulders, or gloves.

And if someone wants helmet shoulders and gloves?

This is just dumb. Wtf have you people done? You took a game that was already a complete destruction of the glorious Gw1 and just made it even worse. SHAME on you.

This is very unintuitive, I also need to set apart slots in my backpack to carry around multiple weapons i never use in pve but that i need in pvp.

they want you to stop creating and deleting characters.

Justin ODell.9517:

Thorn.7963:

Justin ODell.9517:

Chest, leg, and boot are used. You’re fine without a helmet, shoulders, or gloves.

And if someone wants helmet shoulders and gloves?

I believe shoulders are the only slots gated by level but I could be wrong. In any case, just play some PvP and your character will be high enough soon.

Justin, how about weapon swap? That unlocks at level 7 correct? I had a guild member who only does sPvP (level 2), but can’t buy shoulders or swap weapons.

“Just deal with it”

Thanks, bro.

Justin ODell.9517:

TainoFuerte.8136:

“Just deal with it”

Thanks, bro.

I wouldn’t put it that way, but we did expect a period of adjustment.

Could you at least tell us WHY you did this change? It seems so pointless and no doubt be confusing to new players.

Justin ODell.9517:

Thorn.7963:

Could you at least tell us WHY you did this change? It seems so pointless.

To bring PvP in line with how the rest of the game works.

Which I assume is also why PVPers aren’t allowed to freely change their skins now without having to get charges now.

I don’t understand the reason behind it but its not exactly my call to make.

But, everything about sPvP is different by nature, why would you purposely homogenize the different game modes? By now you guy’s have to understand that the sPvP players are feeling like the red-headed stepchild, and this is just another negative change that no one wanted or asked for. A lot of enjoyment from sPvP was garnered from the ability to play all the classes in the mists without having to level each one. Adding an extra step to the process, at this stage of the game, was just silly.

“To bring PvP in line with how the rest of the game works.” says, to me at least, that the sPvP team is being scaled down even more, and merging features of different game modes allows Anet to use PvE staff to dictate how sPvP features are affected.

This is not a good change or a good sign of the future for sPvP.

With sPvP in such a state of turmoil, and with the rapidly declining drop in the sPvP population, why would you feel it is a good idea to introduce changes like this? I wish you devs had the ability to speak freely without fear of repercussions from your supervisors.

Justin ODell.9517:

Thorn.7963:

Which I assume is also why PVPers aren’t allowed to freely change their skins now without having to get charges now.

You apply skins to weapons and armor, after you apply it you can still keep them in your inventory and swap them for free.

Thats true, I didn’t think about that, but that now means I have to spend a lot of bank space or character space holding different item skins if I’m someone who likes to swap skins when I feel like it.

I liked having the huge storage I could put everything I had and could swap with whenever I wanted.

If the game had free skin changes like DCUO or LOTRO this wouldn’t be an issue, but why should we have to pay for it?

Thorn.7963:

Justin ODell.9517:

Thorn.7963:

Which I assume is also why PVPers aren’t allowed to freely change their skins now without having to get charges now.

You apply skins to weapons and armor, after you apply it you can still keep them in your inventory and swap them for free.

Thats true, I didn’t think about that, but that now means I have to spend a lot of bank space or character space holding different item skins if I’m someone who likes to swap skins when I feel like it.

I liked having the huge storage I could put everything I had and could swap with whenever I wanted.

If the game had free skin changes like DCUO or LOTRO this wouldn’t be an issue, but why should we have to pay for it?

Dude, TBH with you, I think it’s fine. They don’t charge monthly subscription fee, and they need to make a living. Most of the thing in pvp is free already, except for cosmetics (and the new traits/amulets). You can’t have your cake and eat it too. For hardcore pvp players like us, we already have a good percentage of our wardrobe filled. Cosmetics is what keeping GW2 free for everyone.

I’m for one agree that they can charge a little small fee for cosmetics and keep the game free for most people.

Sunshine.5014:

Thorn.7963:

Justin ODell.9517:

Thorn.7963:

Which I assume is also why PVPers aren’t allowed to freely change their skins now without having to get charges now.

You apply skins to weapons and armor, after you apply it you can still keep them in your inventory and swap them for free.

Thats true, I didn’t think about that, but that now means I have to spend a lot of bank space or character space holding different item skins if I’m someone who likes to swap skins when I feel like it.

I liked having the huge storage I could put everything I had and could swap with whenever I wanted.

If the game had free skin changes like DCUO or LOTRO this wouldn’t be an issue, but why should we have to pay for it?

Dude, TBH with you, I think it’s fine. They don’t charge monthly subscription fee, and they need to make a living. Most of the thing in pvp is free already, except for cosmetics (and the new traits/amulets). You can’t have your cake and eat it too. For hardcore pvp players like us, we already have a good percentage of our wardrobe filled. Cosmetics is what keeping GW2 free for everyone.

I’m for one agree that they can charge a little small fee for cosmetics and keep the game free for most people.

I can have my cake and eat it too in DCUO and LOTRO, and those didn’t cost me a 60 dollar box fee too.

If this game wants to act like a F2P game then it should become one. I support Buy To Play MMOs like GW2 BECAUSE I wanted to avoid crap like this.

Justin ODell.9517:

Thorn.7963:

Could you at least tell us WHY you did this change? It seems so pointless.

To bring PvP in line with how the rest of the game works.

And what of all those character slots we purchased for the sole intention of pvp’ing? Multiple characters of the same profession that we need to unlock traits and level? You guys are backwards.

Pyriall.5027:

Justin ODell.9517:

Thorn.7963:

Could you at least tell us WHY you did this change? It seems so pointless.

To bring PvP in line with how the rest of the game works.

And what of all those character slots we purchased for the sole intention of pvp’ing? Multiple characters of the same profession that we need to unlock traits and level? You guys are backwards.

That is a very valid question.

Justin ODell.9517:

Pyriall.5027:

And what of all those character slots we purchased for the sole intention of pvp’ing? Multiple characters of the same profession that we need to unlock traits and level?

I can’t really add anything more to what has already been said, but feel free to continue posting feedback in one of the threads regarding character-bound unlocks. We are listening.

Translation vent until you eventually realise it is futile and cough up them gems

RoRo.8270:

Justin ODell.9517:

Pyriall.5027:

And what of all those character slots we purchased for the sole intention of pvp’ing? Multiple characters of the same profession that we need to unlock traits and level?

I can’t really add anything more to what has already been said, but feel free to continue posting feedback in one of the threads regarding character-bound unlocks. We are listening.

Translation vent until you eventually realise it is futile and cough up them gems

I’m considering deleting my level 80 Norn warrior, because I PvP on an Asuran alt. By the time I’m done getting the traits on the Asuran, he’ll be level 80. Not point having two warriors at max level. Plus I need the extra character slot….

(The word “you” in the following post is a plural “you,” referring to “everyone at ANet involved in making these particular decisions.” Not “you” as in “Justin ODell specifically.” Except for when it’s used as a generic pronoun like in “when you do this, that happens”, in which case it doesn’t refer to anyone in particular.)

I don’t even normally play sPvP (only done a few games here and there), but… still this all kinda seems like a bad idea to me.

From my understanding, sPvP was always something you could just jump right in and do at any character level, and how well you did depended on your personal skill level, not on how much gold you’d made for buying runes and sigils and traits. (This is largely why I didn’t do much of it— I’m much better at persistence than I am at reflexes! :P) PvE was always something that you gradually built up power in via exploring and doing different kinds of content requiring different kinds of skill. Why did they have to be made more similar in the first place? It seemed to be perfectly possible to do either, or both, without getting all confused because of the big scary idea of having TWO different currencies and TWO banks, one of which was very convenient! (Never mind all the dungeon currencies, Badges of Honor, Karma, crafting materials, and what-have-you; apparently only Glory was a currency too many.)

A lot of this patch seems to assume that it’s necessary for everyone to have a similar definition of what “fun” means— and RP and PvP are both given the short end of the stick because they’re not part of that standard definition. I find progression over time through adventure fun, and I don’t find honing my skills against other players fun; but why should people who do enjoy a competitive game based on an equal footing for each player be made to experience the game in the way that I enjoy and they don’t?

Why does PvP have to be brought “in line with how the rest of the game works”? That’s not a reason— you’re just saying what you’re doing. Yes, you sure are bringing PvP in line with how the rest of the game works, indeed you are! But why? Yeah, I’ll enjoy being able to use all the PvP skins I’d gotten out of Achievement boxes in PvE now, but that doesn’t excuse messing with other people’s play style and creating an uneven playing field for them just so I can have some extra pretties— while their own pretties start to cost more money and take up inventory space! Allowing people to transfer cosmetic rewards between game modes certainly makes sense and is a good thing, but if that means making everything completely transparent with PvE to the point that characters can’t even have all their extra traits unlocked in PvP, and their own ability to customize their PvP appearances for free is reduced, then it doesn’t seem like all that great a tradeoff.

The news posts on all this talked about a “unified experience” or whatever across different game modes, but in this thread you mention “the economy folks.” So what is the motivation, really? Heck, I don’t get hurt by (and technically I benefit from) this change, but I’m still getting sick of all the evasion and y’all’s refusal to mention money. If y’all would just say “we need to pay the electric bill!” we’d feel better about it than with all this dodging that makes us question your motives.

This update has put me off PvPing on any of my toons that are not level 80. I dont want to look bad in pvp, i mean thats why i pvped so much to get the skins, but now on my lower levels i dont want to waste charges on my look because when i go back to pve and level a bit the armor i just transmuted wont be a good and i dont have the space in my inventory or my bank for pvp sets for my toon.

Only the skins should of been made account wide, not your look. I dont want to look the same in pvp as pve but now i have too unless i want to use my charges of fill up my allready near full bank

I think it’s fine. Some of the changes may seem disruptive to some people, but in a couple of weeks (or less) most of us will be happy with the transition.

An issue that is somewhat serious that I’ve noticed. Rewards from the loot chests from the progression tracks are scaled to PvP level, which seems unfair.

At the moment if I play on my PvP only lvl 6 char, unless I want low level garbage (low lvl mats as opposed to 400 ones and bellow level 80 salvage junk, meaning no chance for rare salvage), I need to switch to my level 80, collect the stuff and open it, then switch back.

This seems severely unfair in terms of rewards, especially for people with pvp only chars. Since PvE visuals are now tied to PvP, PvP only chars have no chance for rare matsmtuey would need for some of the crafted visuals.

That’s not even mentioning the payout if you market the mats. And the ectos.

And yeah the lack of shoulder options without, albeit brief, leveling is annoying too. But the chest loot rewards seem a more serious issue to me.

When I log in, why was my PvE skinset/outfit chosen by default? PvP focused players lose ALL skin progression, PvEers did not. PvPers have to use transmutation charges to get back to what they looked like before the patch, PvE’ers do not. If you think this is fair then ill be kitten ed. Why the discrimination?

Kambo Rambo.8561:

When I log in, why was my PvE skinset/outfit chosen by default? PvP focused players lose ALL skin progression, PvEers did not. PvPers have to use transmutation charges to get back to what they looked like before the patch, PvE’ers do not. If you think this is fair then ill be kitten ed. Why the discrimination?

PvPers are showered with transmutation charges on a regular basis. PvE players
, not so much. Plus, you get 5 for free.

Not that a simple chocie-on-login or entry to the mists which set you want to use wouldn’t hurt, but its tad too late for that one now.

silencer.5028:

Kambo Rambo.8561:

When I log in, why was my PvE skinset/outfit chosen by default? PvP focused players lose ALL skin progression, PvEers did not. PvPers have to use transmutation charges to get back to what they looked like before the patch, PvE’ers do not. If you think this is fair then ill be kitten ed. Why the discrimination?

PvPers are showered with transmutation charges on a regular basis. PvE players
, not so much. Plus, you get 5 for free.

Not that a simple chocie-on-login or entry to the mists which set you want to use wouldn’t hurt, but its tad too late for that one now.

Strangely enough my glory points cant be converted into gems to buy transmuation points. Fortunately PvEers can! Yay for them!

Justin ODell.9517:

Thorn.7963:

Could you at least tell us WHY you did this change? It seems so pointless.

To bring PvP in line with how the rest of the game works.

PvP was about the only thing that seemed ‘similar’ to GW1, because everything was automatically unlocked. The point for it was, as I remember, to make it competitive, with everyone having the same means.

It saddens me to see this power creep in form of traits/skills/leveling. Why are you doing this?

Kambo Rambo.8561:

silencer.5028:

Kambo Rambo.8561:

When I log in, why was my PvE skinset/outfit chosen by default? PvP focused players lose ALL skin progression, PvEers did not. PvPers have to use transmutation charges to get back to what they looked like before the patch, PvE’ers do not. If you think this is fair then ill be kitten ed. Why the discrimination?

PvPers are showered with transmutation charges on a regular basis. PvE players
, not so much. Plus, you get 5 for free.

Not that a simple chocie-on-login or entry to the mists which set you want to use wouldn’t hurt, but its tad too late for that one now.

Strangely enough my glory points cant be converted into gems to buy transmuation points. Fortunately PvEers can! Yay for them!

Which is probably why glory points no longer exist and you get silver for playing, plus the advancement pathways give you loot you can sell or salvage for money. Just like!e dem pesky pvers. You can even buy/get skins that way.

Sirendor.1394:

Justin ODell.9517:

Thorn.7963:

Could you at least tell us WHY you did this change? It seems so pointless.

To bring PvP in line with how the rest of the game works.

PvP was about the only thing that seemed ‘similar’ to GW1, because everything was automatically unlocked. The point for it was, as I remember, to make it competitive, with everyone having the same means.

It saddens me to see this power creep in form of traits/skills/leveling. Why are you doing this?

Um, gw1 PvP did not come with everything unlocked, at least at its inception. You unlocked stuff via PvP currency or PvE.

Also, sPvP does not use any PvE stats. The only connection between sPvP and pve are gear and weapon skins. A lvl 1 weapon is the same as a legendary, sans skin. In fact, sPvP nolonger uses the Hero panel at all for its stats and builds. Just like in GW1 for Adventure chars, though using those in PvP wasn’t the best idea iirc.

People who purely PvP want nothing to-do with the PvE aspect of the game.
People who do mostly PvE will only hope into maybe 3-4 games for daily.

Justin ODell.9517:

Chest, leg, and boot are used. You’re fine without a helmet, shoulders, or gloves.

Just as a reminder: anyone can recieve a full set (head, shoulders, coat, gloves, legs, boots) of armor and all weapons at level 1 from the “Equipment Trader” in their Eternal Battlegrounds spawn area for less than 3,000 Karma.

silencer.5028:

Sirendor.1394:

Justin ODell.9517:

Thorn.7963:

Could you at least tell us WHY you did this change? It seems so pointless.

To bring PvP in line with how the rest of the game works.

PvP was about the only thing that seemed ‘similar’ to GW1, because everything was automatically unlocked. The point for it was, as I remember, to make it competitive, with everyone having the same means.

It saddens me to see this power creep in form of traits/skills/leveling. Why are you doing this?

Um, gw1 PvP did not come with everything unlocked, at least at its inception. You unlocked stuff via PvP currency or PvE.

Also, sPvP does not use any PvE stats. The only connection between sPvP and pve are gear and weapon skins. A lvl 1 weapon is the same as a legendary, sans skin. In fact, sPvP nolonger uses the Hero panel at all for its stats and builds. Just like in GW1 for Adventure chars, though using those in PvP wasn’t the best idea iirc.

How about the fact that the GM traits are unlocked by spending 20 skill points? That’s for each new GM trait, for each trait line, on each character. PvE affects PvP in too many ways as it is, and this patch only made it worse.

Charak.9761:

People who purely PvP want nothing to-do with the PvE aspect of the game.
People who do mostly PvE will only hope into maybe 3-4 games for daily.

And the current system does not force either to do PvE or PvP. It just combines the cosmetic aspect and now regular currency and loot is used as rewards for both. In that aspect, PvP players are showered with stones as track/rep rewards and can also"farm" repeatable reward tracks for the monies to get cosmetics. Just like PvE players, but in their own neck of the woods.

Hammerheart.1426:

How about the fact that the GM traits are unlocked by spending 20 skill points? That’s for each new GM trait, for each trait line, on each character. PvE affects PvP in too many ways as it is, and this patch only made it worse.

PvP reward chests of all types drop skill point skillbooks that automatically give you 1 sp on use. Next?

silencer.5028:

Charak.9761:

People who purely PvP want nothing to-do with the PvE aspect of the game.
People who do mostly PvE will only hope into maybe 3-4 games for daily.

And the current system does not force either to do PvE or PvP. It just combines the cosmetic aspect and now regular currency and loot is used as rewards for both. In that aspect, PvP players are showered with stones as track/rep rewards and can also"farm" repeatable reward tracks for the monies to get cosmetics. Just like PvE players, but in their own neck of the woods.

What don’t you understand? PvE players got a basket chock full of goodies this patch, while PvP (as usual) got unnecessary obligations thrown into our laps. Our lockers were fine, having lvl1 alts was the best way to play all the classes and learn them in PvP, and now we have to PvE to unlock the newest GM traits? It is a big “kitten you” to the sPvP community.

Though I do like the account wide dyes.

Hammerheart.1426:

silencer.5028:

Charak.9761:

People who purely PvP want nothing to-do with the PvE aspect of the game.
People who do mostly PvE will only hope into maybe 3-4 games for daily.

And the current system does not force either to do PvE or PvP. It just combines the cosmetic aspect and now regular currency and loot is used as rewards for both. In that aspect, PvP players are showered with stones as track/rep rewards and can also"farm" repeatable reward tracks for the monies to get cosmetics. Just like PvE players, but in their own neck of the woods.

What don’t you understand? PvE players got a basket chock full of goodies this patch, while PvP (as usual) got unnecessary obligations thrown into our laps. Our lockers were fine, having lvl1 alts was the best way to play all the classes and learn them in PvP, and now we have to PvE to unlock the newest GM traits? It is a big “kitten you” to the sPvP community.

Though I do like the account wide dyes.

See above answer. PvP gives you both SP and currency for the GM skills.

You also will reasonably use 2 at once. And its not like the new traits are a matter of life and death.

silencer.5028:

PvP reward chests of all types drop skill point skillbooks that automatically give you 1 sp on use. Next?

Which requires you to play a while on newly made character or get out of mist, put skillpoint scrolls in bank (from inventory of you regularly played char), relog, go to bank, click through 100 of them if you want to buy all of GM traits (thank you razer for you macro options on my mouse!) go to trainer and buy new traits.

Can you see PvPers problem now?

Good solution would be to make skillpoints account bound, but then lvling up a new char in pve would be to easy with all skills available from the start.

Vylor.3276:

So if I’m not level 10 I cant get a helm or shoulders, and I’m therefore kittened and your once balanced way to pvp on a character of any level is now over. Am I right? If so I’m quitting or you had better fix some kitten quick because this is the dumbest thing ever.

Lol, is this true? xD
They kittened pvp players even harder than I expected it.

Nenthil.4312:

silencer.5028:

PvP reward chests of all types drop skill point skillbooks that automatically give you 1 sp on use. Next?

Which requires you to play a while on newly made character or get out of mist, put skillpoint scrolls in bank (from inventory of you regularly played char), relog, go to bank, click through 100 of them if you want to buy all of GM traits (thank you razer for you macro options on my mouse!) go to trainer and buy new traits.

Can you see PvPers problem now?

Good solution would be to make skillpoints account bound, but then lvling up a new char in pve would be to easy with all skills available from the start.

Lol. If having to spend not even 5 mins transferring stuff between characters, is using you and you have to use a macro for 100 double clicks, I don’t know what to tell you.

You will not unlock all of them at once. You will not use more then 2 at a time. They are not essential to any and all build.

True, mists could use a banker.

But lamenting over the plight of switching to an alt and back which isn’t even 5 mins sounds silly IMO.

We are approaching the end of our discussion, I don’t think I can convince you and vice versa. Such is life.