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Posted by: EnemyCrusher.7324

EnemyCrusher.7324

Yesterday we were defending Durios, so I tried setting up an arrow cart and it got destroyed almost immediately, even though I had set it up to be hidden behind the bridge. It turns out that it was killed by an arrow cart that was closer to Stonemist than it was to Durios. Is this really intended?

I marked where I tried building my arrow cart with a red dot in the attached map, and where the enemy arrow cart was with a blue dot. (The screenshot is not from that battle, I’m just using it to show positions.)

Attachments:

Light of Honor [Lite] – Founder / Warmaster
Sorrow’s Furnace Commander
“You’re the mount, karka’s ride you instead, and thus they die happy!”-Colin Johanson

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Posted by: Ruprect.7260

Ruprect.7260

Yesterday we were defending Durios, so I tried setting up an arrow cart and it got destroyed almost immediately, even though I had set it up to be hidden behind the bridge. It turns out that it was killed by an arrow cart that was closer to Stonemist than it was to Durios. Is this really intended?

I marked where I tried building my arrow cart with a red dot in the attached map, and where the enemy arrow cart was with a blue dot. (The screenshot is not from that battle, I’m just using it to show positions.)

Working as intended. I want to say that traited the AC’s have a 3500 range lol.

Ruprect – [DIS] Dissentient
Mesmer/Elementalist/Guardian/Necromancer/Warrior
[TC] Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Senninha.4105

Senninha.4105

Seriously what is Anet thinking with these AC’s. When GW2 was launched Anet stated that even if you werent level 80 you could go and play some WvWvW. I got a lvl 80 ranger with full PVT gear and i just smelt when i get hit by AC’s, so Anet tell me how a low level player can survive these insane AC’s. Good job Arenanet for off balancing and RUINING WvWvW!!!!

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Posted by: Caedmon.6798

Caedmon.6798

So 45 pages and 2226 posts later…Anet gonna wake up now ? You made a mistake,a huge one,admit it and revert it back.The ac range is dumb,its making Bali’s useless aswell.Reduce the range on Ac’s,Reduce the dmg it does,especially to other sieges.Make wvwvw playable again,instead of turning it into Ac wars.Honestly…my fun is draining,badly..i hardly login,and if i do im staring at my screen for 10m,join wvwvw a bit seeing what a mess it is and logging out again ( This is usually the start of quitting a game all together,wich i wont like doing with gw,but i feel like im being forced away from this game with all these changes i Do not like ) ..And now with this new patch coming in with traps vs stealth,and trapts to steal supply’s so you can run even more across the map in need for supplys ( GRRRReeat fun….Who thinks of these ideas ?!? )….i dunno where this game is heading,but where its heading is not a place where im gonna stay for much longer.

(edited by Caedmon.6798)

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Posted by: skinnyb.5920

skinnyb.5920

So 45 pages and 2226 posts later…Anet gonna wake up now ? You made a mistake,a huge one,admit it and revert it back.The ac range is dumb,its making Bali’s useless aswell.Reduce the range on Ac’s,Reduce the dmg it does,especially to other sieges.Make wvwvw playable again,instead of turning it into Ac wars.Honestly…my fun is draining,badly..i hardly login,and if i do im staring at my screen for 10m,join wvwvw a bit seeing what a mess it is and logging out again..And now with this new patch coming in with traps vs stealth,and trapts to steal supply’s so you can run even more across the map in need for supplys ( GRRRReeat fun….Who thinks of these ideas ?!? )….i dunno where this game is heading,but where its heading is not a place where im gonna stay for much longer.

bump

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Posted by: Urrid.4593

Urrid.4593

Hey, like 100 of those 2226 posts are in SUPPORT of this change. They need to think on it longer, it is clearly that important to them to ruin fun.

Coral -Mesmer- Omnomnivore and TC’er.

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Posted by: Caedmon.6798

Caedmon.6798

Hey, like 100 of those 2226 posts are in SUPPORT of this change. They need to think on it longer, it is clearly that important to them to ruin fun.

Yes,100 of those people Actually Like camping on siege and pressing 1,2,3 all day long.The actual players with a functioning brain don’t like it,meaning the other 2126 people/posts being made.

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Posted by: Lifewaster.5912

Lifewaster.5912

I’d like to see the basic range reduced to 2000, and have the mastery boost it to 2500. The improved damage would be ok if there was a stricter range limit.

High dmg area denial is fine as long as its a restricted to areas close to the carts. And 2000 range still allows carts to cover gates and hold back players who have a max range of 1200-1500.

3500 range carts are just incredibly strong atm, especially when taking advantage of no LOS requirements.
Perhaps they should follow the same LOS rules as ranger barrage.

(edited by Lifewaster.5912)

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Posted by: Entropy.4732

Entropy.4732

I have respect for people / companies that admit they made mistakes. There’s nothing wrong with saying “Look, we had time to think and we made an error, sorry about that. Here’s the fix.” Why can’t Anet just do that? We won’t lose respect for them, we’ll be grateful and gain respect.

Styx Hemlock – Sylvari Mesmer – TFG – NSP

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Posted by: Cameirus.8407

Cameirus.8407

Acs are really wreckign wvw.

please, make them not nuke people so quick, please make it so they dont outrange other seige! and so they dont do dmg to seige.

I dont mind them being good against players, but dam, they are just too powerful.

Spending 10mins watching people treb a tower down may be greaat in terms of meta, but its kitten boring.

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Posted by: Urrid.4593

Urrid.4593

No it is not even great in terms of meta. Guess what the players at the treb get to do? Stand around watching the treb fire.

FIX.

ARROWCARTS.

Coral -Mesmer- Omnomnivore and TC’er.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

No it is not even great in terms of meta. Guess what the players at the treb get to do? Stand around watching the treb fire.

FIX.

ARROWCARTS.

The thing is ppl where standing at trebs even before the AC update. Its just how you play in larges scale fights when your aiming to take down a wall on a keep or a tower if your teams are evenly matched. If one group is out number or there is no one in the tower or keep you use rams. This is what is also know as PvD. Now that world are getting more on lines with each other same number of players and some what same level of skilled commanders you will find the game falling more into long term attks and you will find that only during the down times that you see ninjas and or rushing doors with rams or golmes.

Now it would be nice if they made it so all weapons of wvw must be made where they can be hit by players and other line of sights weapons such as blista but that more of something that needs to be fixed for all wvw weapons and not just AC.

At the end of the day its a question of how much freedom you want with WvW keeping in mind that every bit of freedom you have the other teams has just as much.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

(edited by Jski.6180)

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Posted by: Entropy.4732

Entropy.4732

No it is not even great in terms of meta. Guess what the players at the treb get to do? Stand around watching the treb fire.

FIX.

ARROWCARTS.

The thing is ppl where standing at trebs even before the AC update. Its just how you play in larges scale fights when your aiming to take down a wall on a keep or a tower if your teams are evenly matched. If one group is out number or there is no one in the tower or keep you use rams. This is what is also know as PvD. Now that world are getting more on lines with each other same number of players and some what same level of skilled commanders you will find the game falling more into long term attks and you will find that only during the down times that you see ninjas and or rushing doors with rams or golmes.

Now it would be nice if they made it so all weapons of wvw must be made where they can be hit by players and other line of sights weapons such as blista but that more of something that needs to be fixed for all wvw weapons and not just AC.

I don’t want an attack on Ogrewatch to require building trebs and take a ton of time to accomplish. That’s what keeps and SM should be for. Pre-patch there were so many epic keep battles. No one bothers attacking the keeps. I can’t remember the last time SM changed hands. WvW has been reduced by AC’s to a boring slog for mid level towers.

Styx Hemlock – Sylvari Mesmer – TFG – NSP

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Posted by: Nightingale.8364

Nightingale.8364

And still we wait for the promised “quick” debuff, i believe devon has finally turned to custard.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

No it is not even great in terms of meta. Guess what the players at the treb get to do? Stand around watching the treb fire.

FIX.

ARROWCARTS.

The thing is ppl where standing at trebs even before the AC update. Its just how you play in larges scale fights when your aiming to take down a wall on a keep or a tower if your teams are evenly matched. If one group is out number or there is no one in the tower or keep you use rams. This is what is also know as PvD. Now that world are getting more on lines with each other same number of players and some what same level of skilled commanders you will find the game falling more into long term attks and you will find that only during the down times that you see ninjas and or rushing doors with rams or golmes.

Now it would be nice if they made it so all weapons of wvw must be made where they can be hit by players and other line of sights weapons such as blista but that more of something that needs to be fixed for all wvw weapons and not just AC.

I don’t want an attack on Ogrewatch to require building trebs and take a ton of time to accomplish. That’s what keeps and SM should be for. Pre-patch there were so many epic keep battles. No one bothers attacking the keeps. I can’t remember the last time SM changed hands. WvW has been reduced by AC’s to a boring slog for mid level towers.

If its fully upgraded and well defending then you will have to. There a lot of points of attk to hit Ogrewatch with trebs but at the same time there are few points to safely attk with cata or even rams (open filed and very close to red spawn and support from red’s keep).
When your fighting a world that is nearly = to yours then keeps and tower will not changes hands often unless your going for attking more then one target at a time. If your moving as a zerg then the other side will counter your zerg with a zerg of there own. Such is the way of LARGE scale fight the ideal behind any WvW or RvR game.

Thinking about this a bit more i think its terms of risk ppl are willing to take the ones who tend to use trebs often take very low risk but for a high cost where cata are a bit more risk for lower cost and rams the highest risk for the lowest cost. The lowest risk of all is just simply hiding in a tower or keep though. You cant changes humans and they will chose the lowest risk most of the time even if it becomes the highest cost.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

(edited by Jski.6180)

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Posted by: Entropy.4732

Entropy.4732

No it is not even great in terms of meta. Guess what the players at the treb get to do? Stand around watching the treb fire.

FIX.

ARROWCARTS.

The thing is ppl where standing at trebs even before the AC update. Its just how you play in larges scale fights when your aiming to take down a wall on a keep or a tower if your teams are evenly matched. If one group is out number or there is no one in the tower or keep you use rams. This is what is also know as PvD. Now that world are getting more on lines with each other same number of players and some what same level of skilled commanders you will find the game falling more into long term attks and you will find that only during the down times that you see ninjas and or rushing doors with rams or golmes.

Now it would be nice if they made it so all weapons of wvw must be made where they can be hit by players and other line of sights weapons such as blista but that more of something that needs to be fixed for all wvw weapons and not just AC.

I don’t want an attack on Ogrewatch to require building trebs and take a ton of time to accomplish. That’s what keeps and SM should be for. Pre-patch there were so many epic keep battles. No one bothers attacking the keeps. I can’t remember the last time SM changed hands. WvW has been reduced by AC’s to a boring slog for mid level towers.

If its fully upgraded and well defending then you will have to. There a lot of points of attk to hit Ogrewatch with trebs but at the same time there are few points to safely attk with cata or even rams (open filed and very close to red spawn and support from red’s keep).
When your fighting a world that is nearly = to yours then keeps and tower will not changes hands often unless your going for attking more then one target at a time. If your moving as a zerg then the other side will counter your zerg with a zerg of there own. Such is the way of LARGE scale fight the ideal behind any WvW or RvR game.

Thinking about this a bit more i think its terms of risk ppl are willing to take the ones who tend to use trebs often take very low risk but for a high cost where cata are a bit more risk for lower cost and rams the highest risk for the lowest cost. The lowest risk of all is just simply hiding in a tower or keep though. You cant changes humans and they will chose the lowest risk most of the time even if it becomes the highest cost.

Fully upgraded and well defended? What world are you living in? No, it’s just three fools on arrow carts. I’ve been playing WvW for a year. This is not a matter of balenced servers. It’s just absurd kitten.

Styx Hemlock – Sylvari Mesmer – TFG – NSP

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

No it is not even great in terms of meta. Guess what the players at the treb get to do? Stand around watching the treb fire.

FIX.

ARROWCARTS.

The thing is ppl where standing at trebs even before the AC update. Its just how you play in larges scale fights when your aiming to take down a wall on a keep or a tower if your teams are evenly matched. If one group is out number or there is no one in the tower or keep you use rams. This is what is also know as PvD. Now that world are getting more on lines with each other same number of players and some what same level of skilled commanders you will find the game falling more into long term attks and you will find that only during the down times that you see ninjas and or rushing doors with rams or golmes.

Now it would be nice if they made it so all weapons of wvw must be made where they can be hit by players and other line of sights weapons such as blista but that more of something that needs to be fixed for all wvw weapons and not just AC.

I don’t want an attack on Ogrewatch to require building trebs and take a ton of time to accomplish. That’s what keeps and SM should be for. Pre-patch there were so many epic keep battles. No one bothers attacking the keeps. I can’t remember the last time SM changed hands. WvW has been reduced by AC’s to a boring slog for mid level towers.

If its fully upgraded and well defending then you will have to. There a lot of points of attk to hit Ogrewatch with trebs but at the same time there are few points to safely attk with cata or even rams (open filed and very close to red spawn and support from red’s keep).
When your fighting a world that is nearly = to yours then keeps and tower will not changes hands often unless your going for attking more then one target at a time. If your moving as a zerg then the other side will counter your zerg with a zerg of there own. Such is the way of LARGE scale fight the ideal behind any WvW or RvR game.

Thinking about this a bit more i think its terms of risk ppl are willing to take the ones who tend to use trebs often take very low risk but for a high cost where cata are a bit more risk for lower cost and rams the highest risk for the lowest cost. The lowest risk of all is just simply hiding in a tower or keep though. You cant changes humans and they will chose the lowest risk most of the time even if it becomes the highest cost.

Fully upgraded and well defended? What world are you living in? No, it’s just three fools on arrow carts. I’ve been playing WvW for a year. This is not a matter of balenced servers. It’s just absurd kitten.

Ok so on the red side mainly Ogrewatch is very close to there camp at the same time the camp it self is an easy to def due to how close it is to both tower and because its in a cave. The speed that you can upgrade this tower is shockingly fast if you put a bit of money and time into the camp. This is how EB is set up the Red side being the lowest of the 3 is the most easily to def and to attk from. Its not hard to hit the AC that is right off the lordes room the main AC that can hit every thing but also being in the most open spot for blisa and aoe from ppl on the ground. As for the wall even the “glitched” AC will have some problems hitting just out side of the door. Its not that much of a skill to places rams at there max ranges to be outside of AC that can only aoe on the door.
Its a lot like placing Cate on the inside of towers and keeps so they can aoe the door ppl adapted to this and simply placed rams out side of the aoe but where still able to hit the doors its a skill that seemed to been comply lost i am not even sure why ppl no longer use this trick for rams.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Cameirus.8407

Cameirus.8407

No it is not even great in terms of meta. Guess what the players at the treb get to do? Stand around watching the treb fire.

FIX.

ARROWCARTS.

I meant slowign down the capping a bit and makign it a bit more strategic is good, but not this way, this has just made WvWvW awful at times.

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Posted by: Caliban.3176

Caliban.3176

Hey, like 100 of those 2226 posts are in SUPPORT of this change. They need to think on it longer, it is clearly that important to them to ruin fun.

While I have been the MOST vocal against this arrowcart in the entire thread (probably game) I do have to say (for the sake of honesty and accuracy) that there were a lot more than 100 posts supporting the change. If I were to guess it would be between 800 and 1000.

Though the point remains. There is something wrong here.

Fix it quickly, every time I log into WvW it takes me longer to convince myself to start playing.

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper

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Posted by: Jimmybass.2159

Jimmybass.2159

So we waited eight months for a MASSIVE arrow cart change…

Do we have to wait another eight kitten months for it to be reverted?

King Kong Bundy
Blood Work [RED]
Fort Aspenwood

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Posted by: Thresher.3049

Thresher.3049

Siege should be feared, GW2 is one of the few that seems to have gotten it right where it needs to be. Its dangerous, it will hurt you, stay out of the red circles, come up with new ideas of achieving the same thing.
God forbid you even put up a picket to stop defenders casually wandering in the first place.

If someones invested the money into guarding an asset and refreshing it every 30mins, keeping a scout in there- then maybe they deserve to keep it longer than they would otherwise if a bunch of random dimwits rolls through it in 4min with a stock ram.

So for some, the Karma-Train of flipping stuff ended.
Amen.

Pinot Noir (Necromancer) Pinot Blanc (Warrior)
KnT Blackgate

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Posted by: Sunspots.9861

Sunspots.9861

Dear Anet,

Its not too late to just revert the last wvw patch. Give a full refund of all wxp mastery points and remove the ac mastery until you have a better handle of how it will effect wvw in its current state. By your own thinking, you want the entire siege system to change, so lets just wait for that? No matter how you feel about wvw, it changed the pace of the game. It turned exciting maps into 3 hr long commitments to take keeps. Noone is arguing its impossible, what we are arguing is its not fun. This thread is proof that many others feel the same way.

Auburn Skies – Retired- Ranger of [PiNK]
When wvw was still fun feat. [PiNK]

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Posted by: Aytrix.4059

Aytrix.4059

Tick Tock Arenanet… Still waiting for you to fix your absolute blunder with arrow carts. Letting this go for over a week is absolute bullkitten.

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Posted by: TacoJoe.6083

TacoJoe.6083

Solution to the AC is to get a larger Zerg with more AOE heals…we get a 60 man Zerg together and ACs are not that bad.

Boost ACs and make giant Zergs more necessary unfortunately. I like a good 10 man team personally.

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Posted by: Grommet.2963

Grommet.2963

I made a video demonstrating good AC usage prior to the huge buffs from this patch, when they were already very strong and effective. I was already using arrow carts plenty in my groups, and I really feel like this patch is absolutely overkill on an already effective siege type.

Cedrick Klom – GM of Pirate Knights
Eradon Terrace
CHIVALRY TIMBERS

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Posted by: Mizu.9387

Mizu.9387

@Thresher
Or, you know, they could remove player’s ability to damage gates. That would require rams and give defenders some time to get there.
We don’t mind keeps/towers taking longer to crack, it was a bit fast. But we want to fight defenders, not scrubs on ACs.

PS: Karma train? Seriously. They were popular right after launch.

Sif Urkraft

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Posted by: Nightingale.8364

Nightingale.8364

And still the promised “quick” changes to the AC update have not appreared (Two for the molten facility dungeon allready), we can see that anet has its priorities set for the pve side of the game, we have always known this….

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Posted by: Urrid.4593

Urrid.4593

Hey Anet,

You’re letting an entire section of your playerbase lose interest. I cannot fathom why you want this, but it seems like you do.

/signed disappointed player

Coral -Mesmer- Omnomnivore and TC’er.

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Posted by: Preacher.9018

Preacher.9018

So much whining. It was a good change. Now they need to buff other siege weapons too.

http://www.pevepe.net/ – Seafarers Rest Server community website

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Posted by: Lauranda.1342

Lauranda.1342

Are we using ACs wrong? During our down time, one of the other servers runs 40-50 man zergs to take our bl. We often have 3-4 ACs set up at the a gate. And they are nothing more than a nuisance to the enemy (they still plow through and take our fortification). Are we using them wrong or are they really not all that powerful as everyone is making them out to be?

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Posted by: Forzani.2584

Forzani.2584

Are we using ACs wrong? During our down time, one of the other servers runs 40-50 man zergs to take our bl. We often have 3-4 ACs set up at the a gate. And they are nothing more than a nuisance to the enemy (they still plow through and take our fortification). Are we using them wrong or are they really not all that powerful as everyone is making them out to be?

According to the forums apparently you are. 1 AC > 40 man zerg….and you had 3-4 ACs up ? Obviously a L2 kitten ue.

When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.

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Posted by: Caliban.3176

Caliban.3176

So much whining. It was a good change. Now they need to buff other siege weapons too.

Something terrible must have happened to SFR since we left because it is very hard to see how anyone who advertises www.pevepe.net in his signature really believes that this was a good change. I remember when the SFR community was filled to the brim with people who enjoyed good fights and actual balanced action.

This was a horrible patch and every day more people come here to say just that. The meta has really changed for the worse. The game has come to a stop, there is a stalemate. Things still flip indeed but only when there is either a huge zerg attacking, there are no defenders or there is a very long and boring siege. No way anyone could say that those results are something the game needed.

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper

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Posted by: povV.5681

povV.5681

I wanna thank Anet for curing my WvW addiction with these arrow carts. Before the April 30th patch I would play WvW all the time. I’d hurry home to get back online, would check score updates obsessively, and had a blast. WvW was fun, epic and rewarding so it got addictive fast. Once the arrow carts came in with their insane damage WvW has been incredibly annoying and frustrating. I’ve been playing less and less until last night when I starting avoiding Gw2 altogether. Now I have more time for other games and my family. I’m getting more work done and I have Anet to thank. After this disastrous patch killed the meta game, I got my life back. Much appreciated.

ive logged minimum 75% less hours on gw2 since the patch. all due to ac’s.

Too Pow – Do You Even HP [Bru]
pvp = shopping at gucci n loui
wvw = shopping at walmart and costco

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Posted by: Preacher.9018

Preacher.9018

So much whining. It was a good change. Now they need to buff other siege weapons too.

Something terrible must have happened to SFR since we left because it is very hard to see how anyone who advertises www.pevepe.net in his signature really believes that this was a good change. I remember when the SFR community was filled to the brim with people who enjoyed good fights and actual balanced action.

This was a horrible patch and every day more people come here to say just that. The meta has really changed for the worse. The game has come to a stop, there is a stalemate. Things still flip indeed but only when there is either a huge zerg attacking, there are no defenders or there is a very long and boring siege. No way anyone could say that those results are something the game needed.

I do not “advertise” it. I created it and FUBAR alliance since the beginning and run the organization until my guild left for Darkfall in december.

WvW is a Strategy game. Siege weapons are integral part of it, were since beginning. At release everyone had to fight through Stonemist top floor with dozens of ACs/Ballistas and only one shallow entrance and still won. Organized competition involved lots of siege weapons/counters and effective defences and attacks from both sides. Sorry, but i cant take seriously anyone whining about how “arrowcarts (and siege weapons in general) kill wvw”. If anything, it just shows sad state of WvW where whole metagame degraded to running with single zerg, not putting siege/not defending anything and just trading objectives.

GOOD siege is where you assult a keep with 5 trebs, defending positions with ballistas and bringing supplies where every single counts, fighting through enemy defences/counter treb/mortars/ballistas blocking the entrance/arrow cart fire, where enemy has to try to get out and attack YOUR defended positions outside to not allow walls to be destroyed etc.

People that think WvW is just about getting in groups and fighting each other similarly as in SPVP, just with larger groups – dont really get a point of WvW. Its a strategy game, a WAR.

pevepe.net was created in a first place, to improve level of tactical/strategical cooperation and advance the server over just being pugs/guilds running around aimlessly killing people.

I love siege weapons. If anything, i`d love more variety and more uses for them, for both defending and attacking side. In fact, i was against changing the above described SM situation, with boss on top and hell lot of weapons – since changing it made taking SM trivial and boring task and holding it irrelevant.

Please dont think that you with your whining, represent majority of “expirienced wvw players”

http://www.pevepe.net/ – Seafarers Rest Server community website

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Posted by: Caliban.3176

Caliban.3176

I don’t represent anyone besides myself.

There can be a lot of strategy even without siege. Going for distraction attacks, splitting up and flanking, baiting. Those are all the things I learned on SFR. Siege was being used, it was great, ballista’s and AC’s were great defensive tools and were efficiently used by many groups. Supply starving and tactical strikes on small objectives were no rare sight either.

Now it is all about standing still next to a couple of guys firing a treb or zerging with 60+ or waiting on an arrowcart until somebody tries to attack it.

The zergs existed before, but it was still viable to run in smaller groups. That last part has been destroyed in this last patch.

There were problems with the direction the meta was going before this patch. The patch however addressed none of those problems, instead it create more of them and made it worse.

I have seen that some people say they prefer this new kind of play but some have also stated to be very much against it. The goal is a balance between the two kinds and now that balance is gone.

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper

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Posted by: Reborn.2934

Reborn.2934

@Preacher.
the www is going to be more siege weapon warfare than a players warfare and this is boring and wrong.

they could increase the defend of upgraded structures and npc in www maps but what exists now ( arrow carts , traps ) is plain stupid and f@cking boring .

they can fix the fault patch by removing the ability from arrow carts to damage enemy sieges and only giving this extra big damage ( +80% ) to outnumbered buff and maybe to all sieges just to give a will for fight to defenders when they are facing big zergs and they are few against them.

p.s. also the range of arrow carts must be the lower of all other sieges because arrow cart is an aoe anti infantry weapon . it is still wrong because arrow carts must have the ability to hit just next to them and now they can’t

(edited by Reborn.2934)

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Posted by: Hebril Amolebin.9817

Hebril Amolebin.9817

The ac is horible. Last night all Vz did was hide in t3 bay inner put like 20 ac.Siege limit full? and no there is no entering there with 20 ac shooting on you and 100 people creating heavy lag that you can use oonly autoattack and skills with 5-10 seconds delay. I dont know how is it in lower tiers but in t1 is pretty bad. Man I saw Vz and Deso build ac before a open field fight ?!!?! wtf are we fighing or playing siege/ac game ?

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Posted by: Mizu.9387

Mizu.9387

I see our numbers drop every day. People are moving away and we have zero queues on any map at any given time.
All that is left to do now is solo roam, since our guild group can’t really accomplish anything. We don’t want our members to spend 3 hours of their time watching others play with siege.
I must admit that I don’t know a whole lot about war history, but I don’t care, this is boring. If realistic means whatver this is, I rather do without. I assume this is the approach Anet wants to take though, since no “fix” has come yet.
GG Anet, it was fun while it lasted.

Sif Urkraft

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Posted by: Preacher.9018

Preacher.9018

Let me just give an example of what in my understanding GOOD siege is.

Lets take situation when you are in own Borderlands and enemy holds fully fortified Hills. Mortars, catapults behind gates, trebuchet at the vista, ballistas at the choke points, lots of supplies inside.

For attacker it should be impossible to even try taking it if defender is capable, until they slowly drain Hills supply.

So a siege starts with attackers taking both supply camps, and probe of brute force attack – which likely will be repelled. Attack on north gate would be suffocated in poison treb fire form inside the keep and concentrated mortar fire. Attack on South gate would be futile to begin with, because of how easily the gate is defended.

Thus attackers build trebs and try attack from distance from different points, however enemy either suicide runs to destroy the positions or countertrebs (even stealth treb attacks, like building treb behind attackers positions to destroy their own). To defend own siege weapons, attackers build defencive siege weapons like balistas and carts at own positions too.

Still, its hard for attackers to hold trebs firing for long, so they resort to instead trying to drain resources of KEEP by sending smaller groups attacking the keep gates and walls from different positions while main force blocking keep reinforcement and supply income – with Keeps supply slowly draining on repairs.

Defenders to distract attackers, send strike force to attack their keeps, trying to make the attacker force move away and get supplies in keep.

Eventually attackers however, breach in, move in – but are greeted with ballistas on choke point and arrow carts. While holding the gate/wall open, they build treb behind, and treb the enemy defensive positions. They still however cant safely attack the gates, since the trebs placed in inner circle, are shooting their positions and destroy their siege weapons. So instead they place catapults on the wall, where treb cant reach them to shoot the gate, and a treb to shoot poison inside the inner circle to destroy any siege weapons/positions they may have behind the gate. Meanwhile porting Golems from Garrison, and stealth attacking the other gate which falls fast, since enemy fails to notice it in time.

Both gates breached, the go to Boss room just to be greeted with massive balisstae fire at chokepoint entrance. Only few defenders remain inside to defend the chokepoint for a minute, while rest ports out and runs to attackers keep with main force, using moment to try to either take it or make main attacker force pull away.

Attackers are forced to pull away to defend, however return later, send Golem to chockpoint to attract all the fire, and send mesmers inside to open portal, after which portal bomb remaining defenders.

THIS is how a proper siege with both organized forces should be conducted. If objective is defended, taking it should not be easy, and HOLDING and DEFENDING something should be relevant.

What we have now instead?

3 zergs of people run around the map mostly avoiding each other, taking empty keeps. Any defence and upgrades are meaningless. There is nothing that cant be overcome with brute force of few siege golems.

If you took objective, you should value it and defend it. Loosing it should be a wound, not a trivial thing. Supply lines should matter, proper siege conduct as well. I really dont get arrow cart whine, especially as its not really the stopping factor – even proper balista defense on chokepoints is better, and people fought much harsher defenses before where there was no siege limit and before AC`s nerf. No 2, no 4 no 10 arrowcarts should be able to stop or even really slow down a proper organized force. So for me most of complaints basically are read like “i cant stand in red circles anymore! fix it!”, while those weapons were created specifically for exact this purpose – anti personal weapons preventing people from just running around like zombies and pressing 1 targeting gate.

http://www.pevepe.net/ – Seafarers Rest Server community website

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Posted by: Zoel.9154

Zoel.9154

In fairness taking a camp before the tick is worth more than a tower now whenever you get 2 yaks.

Zoel – GM of [coVn]

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Posted by: Mizu.9387

Mizu.9387

Can we get some videos on these exciting sieges?

Sif Urkraft

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Posted by: Preacher.9018

Preacher.9018

Can we get some videos on these exciting sieges?

I believe the OSC video here had moments from similar siege. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gUBKvNH_4U&hd=1

Overall, if interested can check Futilez and OSC videos, though most of them are dated.kittenquit in December, and OSC moved from SFR recently.

http://www.pevepe.net/ – Seafarers Rest Server community website

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Posted by: Snow.7350

Snow.7350

Preacher, did you play wvw at all the last months? afaik you left GW2 even before Dec 2012 and we got quite some major changes since. Last Futilez video from wvw is also 4 months old now…
Doesn’t mean theoretical discussion based on experience in loads of games isn’t helpful but I doubt that you know the situation in game atm well enough.

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Posted by: Preacher.9018

Preacher.9018

I came back month ago or so, playing only casually as time affords now every day. To be honest i cant really see “changes in last monthes” as anything constructive, as what i see from all servers atm is pretty pathetic for it being T1. WvW is past its time. Current metagame is absolutely nothing compared to what we had back than, and main reason is basically competition being dead – it seems no side takes wvw seriously anymore, where for back than it was almost a job, Though that was a reason so many people burnt out and quit to begin with. I dont see nothing impressive from either side. Some commanders are good at leading pugs and have overall good ability to lead random people in combat situation, but overall there is no strategic gameplay from either side and if T1 atm is most active what GW2 now has of WvW, it just shows what bad state it is in.

That said, i don’t want Arena to cater to current bad state of wvw, even if it mean displeasing people just going for it for wxp and some fun fights, but rather want to see WvW to be perfected in a way they intended it from beginning. They should work to bring competition back, not just accept the fact that they lost it.

Nothing was as great as raising SFR from bottom to the top fighting different servers at their prime time where people were really enthusiastic about wvw and full with pride. On another note, i laugthed at people on SFR complaining about some queues at prime time after free transfers. After release, we were low pop server, and still had hours of queues sometimes, while purposely chose least populated server – because wvw was that active, allied guilds could fill the maps without any bugs. Not to mention say Vizunah that since beginning had to deal with like 4h queues and still played. Now in T1 i can hop in prime time on any map, and in daytime in borderlands run around solo capping camps with no other people in sight…

http://www.pevepe.net/ – Seafarers Rest Server community website

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Posted by: Caliban.3176

Caliban.3176

That said, i don’t want Arena to cater to current bad state of wvw, even if it mean displeasing people just going for it for wxp and some fun fights, but rather want to see WvW to be perfected in a way they intended it from beginning. They should work to bring competition back, not just accept the fact that they lost it.

You don’t want Anet to cater to the bad state of WvW yet you are not against the arrowcart buff.

People really don’t care that much about wxp anymore, it lasted for 3 weeks and then most people stopped caring.

If you want competition back, they should revert this arrowcart mess. That way there is room for more fights. Those fights were where the competition was at. If you had the organization and skill to take on larger forces than your own it meant that you could free up more players to do other strategic stuff. That’s a fun implementation of strategy. Bringing the arrowcarts back to normal levels would not be enough, but it would allow them space to do discourages zerging. This arrowcart buff has to go before WvW can be ‘fixed’.

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper

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Posted by: Nightingale.8364

Nightingale.8364

You wont be in T1 for much longer, and basing your ideas on only a months play in what has been a stale match up for at least 6 weeks is a little short sighted.

The siege situations that you describe existed in the past, great defense put up during intense battles in T1, these skilled defenders didnt require buffed up siege. Battles didnt revolve around who could build siege faster, they revolved around groups of indivuduals using tactics against each other and fighting each other.

You left the game before SFR became the best fighting server, the server that was able to produce the most fighting units with great tactics, siege was only a part of the game. You came back to a server that suffered enormously from the free transfers and all the best organised guilds gone, the fact you can map hop in primetime just goes to show how badly your server has suffered.

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Posted by: Snow.7350

Snow.7350

…rather want to see WvW to be perfected in a way they intended it from beginning. They should work to bring competition back, not just accept the fact that they lost it.

that was the major point in aneu’s post on changes he suggested for wvw. This is also the ideal many competitive guilds aim for and we have a lot of great posts in this and other threads on this topic.
as a former futilez member I have seen first commanders/officers burning out (you being one of them), now more and more other guilds but they try to help improve and not turn to another game (yet) – which would be the next step if we can’t find fun here anymore.
Different player types enjoy different things in game. You are also a competitive player, Preacher, but don’t mind switching games fast. Some of us try to make the game our home a bit longer ^^

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Posted by: Mizu.9387

Mizu.9387

Preacher, I do respect you, really, but stop it right there. We fought Viz for months, pulling 16 hour shifts, all nighters, got up at 4 am to counter their morning zerg. Seven days a week we did this, for months. The competative spirit kinda dies after you realize you get absolutely nothing out of it except a divorce or bad grades. That’s why people play for fun fights.
Now its all about defending, and some like the realism and the dedication. But where are all those dedicated people that want to sit on an AC, just waiting for the enemy to show up? Not on my server at least. Stuff still flips, for the same reasons as before. No one is there to defend it.

Sif Urkraft

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Posted by: WIGZ.8245

WIGZ.8245

I’ve definitely played less WvW since the AC patch. Their range and damage are ridiculous now. It’s also made it a lot more difficult to push objectives with rams due to AC’s being able to reach and damage rams while being invulnerable to enemy fire etc.

[BT] Wigz – Blackgate – 80 Engineer & Warrior
http://blacktalons.guildlaunch.com/

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

@Thresher
Or, you know, they could remove player’s ability to damage gates. That would require rams and give defenders some time to get there.
We don’t mind keeps/towers taking longer to crack, it was a bit fast. But we want to fight defenders, not scrubs on ACs.

PS: Karma train? Seriously. They were popular right after launch.

I would love if they removed players ability to damage a gate sooo many ppl just mindlessly attk the door doing next to no dmg.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA