Guild Wars 2

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

Arrowcart buff goes both ways, you could easily destroy those carts on the inside before plopping your 100 rams on the gate. (was Anet thinking that we should be using seige -gasp- other than rams/catas/trebs to attack a keep?)

KTDannyCZ.2910:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZpaOiz3lvI

Relevant

Indeed, very much so.

sostronk.8167:

Gorefiend.9675:

My complaint about arrow cart is that it practically forces you into two different siege scenarios:

1)A golem rush where the enemy can not respond fast enough.

2)A lengthy ranged siege that avoids arrow carts altogether.

Gamers are not patient enough for lengthy sieges so we will see even more golem rushes on everything. I already can’t stand how golems are becoming the go to siege unit, so this patch is disastrous for me.

Trebs and Catas are better options than golems. Golems take quite alot of damage from AC.

Golems take little to no damage if you use them how they are supposed to be used. Which is in a sneak attack where by the time the enemy realizes they are under attack, the golems are already punching on inner gate.

Arrow carts were already powerful defensive weapons when used properly. The point though was to have guards in the tower to be able to hold the line until reinforcements arrived. Before this patch, I’ve seen many large zergs stopped cold by a few people in a tower with Arrow Carts. They had to work to take the tower, and it sucked that we got wiped when they finally got through, but it was not impossible for them.

It is now Impossible to attack. kitten the Arrow Cart now has the same range as a catapult. The only siege weapon with more range is the Trebuchet. And it takes 10 people to just build 1 of those. And oh by the way, Anet has nerfed the ability of the players to be able to defend said trebuchets from counter fire, so that is out the window too.

We can make jokes about golems all we want. But they are not funny. The Golem is the ONLY Siege weapon that works now. Borlis Pass took our Overlook keep back from Ehmry bay just now using 1 golem and 60 people bare handing 2 wooden gates (since no ram or catapult lived long enough to get in place).

From about 5 defenders. Who were the tail end of a defense that has lasted all night. And that 1 golem at the end was the sole survivor of 10 that we threw at the gate over the evening to slowly drain its strength as we bare handed it. Know how long it takes about 40-60 people to bare hand a wooden keeps gate? about 4 hours.

Zoel.9154:

Tallis.5607:

AcidMage.9508:

we were doing a guild raid with 25-30 people, going for garrison watergate and placed two superior rams. Not 10 seconds had passed and around 4 arrow carts started firing on us whilst we were at the door and everyone was just melting away we had to get back, and before we could get the gate to 50% the rams had melted rapidly

So you thought it was normal that you can take a Garrison with 2 rams?

Personally, I think that defending a keep should be easier than it was before: for me it’s perfectly normal that 4 people on defensive siege can kill 2 offensive sieges.

Mostly normal. 4 people on defensive seige could indeed do that pre-patch anyhow

But lets hypothetically say they couldn’t.

I think you’re basing your definition of “should” on realism rather than gameplay balance. If it’s possible to hold a garrison almost indefinitely against a vastly larger force, why should more than three or four people defend the tower against 45-50 when they’re better suited to standing around trebuchets at another objective?

With 40-50 people you can build more than 2 rams. Just saying.

You people are really serious about this? Complaining because arrow carts stop karma trains? Seriously? What about those of us who legitimately enjoy the WvW experience in general and do not participate in your zergball karma trains? Where does that leave us?

I’ll tell you where. It leaves us solo defending our towers while our own server’s zerg is off “training” some other BL. Stuck with that feeling of dread an inevitability of death and failure when your 30-40 zerg comes knockin’ (for those of us who won’t flee or back down anyway). That’s gone now. Towers are actually defensible now. That inevitability is no more, and now you guys are complaining because your frothing zergmob is inconvenienced? Gimme a kittening break.

I know I’m likely facing infraction here, but if that’s the way you guys feel about it, you have no place in any WvW of mine. I was lighthearted and joking with my last post here, but the more I read the posts here, the more I say good riddance.

JUST wanna say thank you Anet.. Finally an Arrow cart that actually Kills for a change . After defending towers for so long an watching people laugh at the damage that wasn’t happening . I will now get to see these same people no longer smile in the face of an ac barrage coming down on them. For all others bemoaning this newly added detail . I have zero sympathy for you an wish you good luck , for once in this game your going to need it .

KStudios.2850:

You people are really serious about this? Complaining because arrow carts stop karma trains? Seriously? What about those of us who legitimately enjoy the WvW experience in general and do not participate in your zergball karma trains? Where does that leave us?

I’ll tell you where. It leaves us solo defending our towers while our own server’s zerg is off “training” some other BL. Stuck with that feeling of dread an inevitability of death and failure when your 30-40 zerg comes knockin’ (for those of us who won’t flee or back down anyway). That’s gone now. Towers are actually defensible now. That inevitability is no more, and now you guys are complaining because your frothing zergmob is inconvenienced? Gimme a kittening break.

I know I’m likely facing infraction here, but if that’s the way you guys feel about it, you have no place in any WvW of mine. I was lighthearted and joking with my last post here, but the more I read the posts here, the more I say good riddance.

Agree with you. It seems like defending is a 4 letter word on these forums. It appears everyone has more fun going to an enemy BL, taking a tower, then moving on to the next one. Meanwhile the enemy follows you around capping the towers/keeps you just took …and left undefended. Rinse/repeat. Everyone is happy because they got their karma/xp.

Defending was a joke. You couldn’t stand on the walls or you got pulled off to your seath. Defenders literally laughed at you when you used ACs. There was zero point in defending. Now their is…and taking a tower/keep should actually mean something and be a little more difficult than taking a supply camp,

One guy with one superior arrowcart can hit the entire force with no aoe cap.

Why would I want to play a game where someone who I can’t see can down a force so quickly. Siege might, plus arrow cart mastery, plus superior arrow carts, plus no limit on building arrowcarts or aoe limit and on top of it a buff to damage. Unbelievable.

If this isn’t changed in the next 24 hours you will have a mass exodus of this game.

Forzani.2584:

KStudios.2850:

You people are really serious about this? Complaining because arrow carts stop karma trains? Seriously? What about those of us who legitimately enjoy the WvW experience in general and do not participate in your zergball karma trains? Where does that leave us?

I’ll tell you where. It leaves us solo defending our towers while our own server’s zerg is off “training” some other BL. Stuck with that feeling of dread an inevitability of death and failure when your 30-40 zerg comes knockin’ (for those of us who won’t flee or back down anyway). That’s gone now. Towers are actually defensible now. That inevitability is no more, and now you guys are complaining because your frothing zergmob is inconvenienced? Gimme a kittening break.

I know I’m likely facing infraction here, but if that’s the way you guys feel about it, you have no place in any WvW of mine. I was lighthearted and joking with my last post here, but the more I read the posts here, the more I say good riddance.

Agree with you. It seems like defending is a 4 letter word on these forums. It appears everyone has more fun going to an enemy BL, taking a tower, then moving on to the next one. Meanwhile the enemy follows you around capping the towers/keeps you just took …and left undefended. Rinse/repeat. Everyone is happy because they got their karma/xp.

Defending was a joke. You couldn’t stand on the walls or you got pulled off to your seath. Defenders literally laughed at you when you used ACs. There was zero point in defending. Now their is…and taking a tower/keep should actually mean something and be a little more difficult than taking a supply camp,

Or maybe you guys just haven’t bothered reading the real posts in the last several pages.

Also, why dont you try defending by fighting instead of hiding inside walls? It’s much more fun

Changes are fine and good job. Gimme people time to adjust to it, after they actually tried to deal with it.

MiLkZz.4789:

Vynt.5218:

Maybe all the organized guilds should have a meeting and stack up in the lower brackets, equally in all the servers. Then there would be no way up because of balanced matchups and glicko 2 glitch and there would also not be arrow carts and coverage that keeps them up.
We all could enjoy the fights we play the game for and there would be no reason to stress about going up in the bracket.

This has been a dream of mine ^^.

well, keep dreaming, sadly

Forzani.2584:

KStudios.2850:

You people are really serious about this? Complaining because arrow carts stop karma trains? Seriously? What about those of us who legitimately enjoy the WvW experience in general and do not participate in your zergball karma trains? Where does that leave us?

I’ll tell you where. It leaves us solo defending our towers while our own server’s zerg is off “training” some other BL. Stuck with that feeling of dread an inevitability of death and failure when your 30-40 zerg comes knockin’ (for those of us who won’t flee or back down anyway). That’s gone now. Towers are actually defensible now. That inevitability is no more, and now you guys are complaining because your frothing zergmob is inconvenienced? Gimme a kittening break.

I know I’m likely facing infraction here, but if that’s the way you guys feel about it, you have no place in any WvW of mine. I was lighthearted and joking with my last post here, but the more I read the posts here, the more I say good riddance.

Agree with you. It seems like defending is a 4 letter word on these forums. It appears everyone has more fun going to an enemy BL, taking a tower, then moving on to the next one. Meanwhile the enemy follows you around capping the towers/keeps you just took …and left undefended. Rinse/repeat. Everyone is happy because they got their karma/xp.

Defending was a joke. You couldn’t stand on the walls or you got pulled off to your seath. Defenders literally laughed at you when you used ACs. There was zero point in defending. Now their is…and taking a tower/keep should actually mean something and be a little more difficult than taking a supply camp,

Agree with this, something I thought myself and didn’t say. I really like this update because as a player who regularly does work in the background like defending and escorting yaks I feel like it was a kick up the backside of the karma train mentality. But at the same time I think Anet is setting up to take another look at the rewards right now because they are unbalanced. Hopefully we will see things develop so that WvW can be rewarding for everyone who is contributing to their server and not just the mindless karma train.

JaredKincade.9761:

One guy with one superior arrowcart can hit the entire force with no aoe cap.

Why would I want to play a game where someone who I can’t see can down a force so quickly. Siege might, plus arrow cart mastery, plus superior arrow carts, plus no limit on building arrowcarts or aoe limit and on top of it a buff to damage. Unbelievable.

If this isn’t changed in the next 24 hours you will have a mass exodus of this game.

As stated in my last…

KStudios.2850:

You people are really serious about this? Complaining because arrow carts stop karma trains? Seriously? What about those of us who legitimately enjoy the WvW experience in general and do not participate in your zergball karma trains? Where does that leave us?

I’ll tell you where. It leaves us solo defending our towers while our own server’s zerg is off “training” some other BL. Stuck with that feeling of dread an inevitability of death and failure when your 30-40 zerg comes knockin’ (for those of us who won’t flee or back down anyway). That’s gone now. Towers are actually defensible now. That inevitability is no more, and now you guys are complaining because your frothing zergmob is inconvenienced? Gimme a kittening break.

I know I’m likely facing infraction here, but if that’s the way you guys feel about it, you have no place in any WvW of mine. I was lighthearted and joking with my last post here, but the more I read the posts here, the more I say good riddance.

Let the hoard leave, and frankly “well we’ll all just ragequit then!” is a sad defense.

KStudios.2850:

Let the hoard leave, and frankly “well we’ll all just ragequit then!” is a sad defense.

Welp, you heard him guys. Time to kick back. We’re not needed.

Why gear up? Why level a character? why buy weapons? Just hide inside the keep and spam ACs. lol

Best move in open field is to drop an arrowcart, not even fight each other now.

glitter, this patch was the biggest buff to stealth caps you could have asked for…

BTW if someone sees you it isn’t a stealth cap anymore.

Yes arrowcarts are a great addition for ppl that like……..just to sit inside the door and playing hunter’s games. Now we have no needs for fights…….everyone inside with arrowcarts.

Kebab.4013:

VoTF had a strategy meeting tonight when the patch hit…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsjHzb9pSxk

lmao ^^

Gorefiend.9675:

2)A lengthy ranged siege that avoids arrow carts altogether.

Good.

Sieges should be epic battles, not “Gone in 60 seconds”.

Your forgetting now you can’t protect the trebs from mortars in an inner keep wall that are unkillable. So no long range, no short range.

Yeah, we tried to long range deal. Trebuchets and Catapults are no good either if the enemy is able to counterfire, which they are able to do if they are even modestly competent. Only way you can get a treb up and hitting is if the enemy is not paying attention.

At that point though, you are better off ninja ramming anyhow since its faster then ninja trebbing.

I will say arrow carts needed a buff, but a range increase AND an 80% increase is just ridiculous. Anyone who makes the argument that this is a good thing quite honestly is just stupid. I’ve just come from two hours of trying to take hills in T1, after two hours we still haven’t made a single dent in ANY of the gates OR walls. So what I would like to know from the people who think this is a good change, how would you go about taking a keep now? Seriously we tried everything, trebbing from Lowlands, trebbing from Stargrove, Rams, Cata’s, golems, for every treb we put up they had a counter (you might say this is good play on their parts and yes they were good defenders), but lets remember that they have 5 people in hills. Some of you are saying hoorah we can defend against zergs now, how the kitten are you supposed to take keeps without forces of main power, even towers are a pain in the kitten now. Sure like I said I agree defense needed a buff to some degree, but now instead of zerging the entire playstyle is just going to be capping keeps right on reset and then holding them, idk about you but that sounds a lot more boring than zerg versus zerg. Also to all of you that think ninjaing will somehow be the way to cap towers and supply, heres a newsflash the same arrow carts you love are going to kitten you time and time again all the while the guy behind it is laughing his kitten off at your pathetic 5 man attempts to take something, if anything you made his job easier he has less buttons to press now. GG NO RE Anet

Gorefiend.9675:

sostronk.8167:

Gorefiend.9675:

My complaint about arrow cart is that it practically forces you into two different siege scenarios:

1)A golem rush where the enemy can not respond fast enough.

2)A lengthy ranged siege that avoids arrow carts altogether.

Gamers are not patient enough for lengthy sieges so we will see even more golem rushes on everything. I already can’t stand how golems are becoming the go to siege unit, so this patch is disastrous for me.

Trebs and Catas are better options than golems. Golems take quite alot of damage from AC.

Golems take little to no damage if you use them how they are supposed to be used. Which is in a sneak attack where by the time the enemy realizes they are under attack, the golems are already punching on inner gate.

That argument will just go around and around. Next I say, “well if you have decent scouts on the map then it won’t be an issue” etc etc.

glittergirl.4162:

This terrible patch overall is the last straw on the camels back.

Im being a kitten here, but the saying is “the straw that broke the camels back”, not “the last straw on the camels back”. The first makes complete sense in many situations, your makes none whatsoever.

Lance.5892:

Or maybe you guys just haven’t bothered reading the real posts in the last several pages.

Also, why dont you try defending by fighting instead of hiding inside walls? It’s much more fun

I was specifically referring to instances where the odds are 4v30-40 or worse. I’m crazy enough to defend the lord’s room in those situations, but not leave the walls generally.

Sorenstam Blackrose.8425:

KStudios.2850:

Let the hoard leave, and frankly “well we’ll all just ragequit then!” is a sad defense.

Welp, you heard him guys. Time to kick back. We’re not needed.

Since when was Sekz part of the hoard? Is that your official stance on the issue? If so I’m sorry, and I pray you forgive me, but if that be the case then we must disagree. I’m not Sekz material, nor have I ever claimed to be. I’m not known for zerg-busting on a regular basis. My name does not echo through the halls of these forums.

I’m tired of being steamrolled under-foot because some sea-guild nightcaps consistantly night after night in the instances when you guys aren’t around to save us (and frankly I’d think you’d be tired of saving us). I’m tired of being just a smear on the ground in some mobs karma train. Then having my carcass “bagged” and laughed at in the lord’s room I so desperately tried to defend like I was the one whose efforts were pointless. There’s no good fight in a 4v30+, and we certainly don’t get respected for our efforts in trying.

You have to be a really really really utterly horrible player if you think this buff is a good thing. I just tried taking T3 hills with my 40-50 man zerg against outmanned JQ in T1 fight. Not only did they wipe every thing I tried building, they had a counter for EVERYTHING I had. ACs demolished rams before they had a chance to even be built, golems will just get wrecked by the ACs, they had mortars and trebs to counter my trebs because they kittened swirling winds. I spent 3 hours trying to take it and only scratched about 100 supply from their depot. Not to mention like half of my zerg were getting killed by the ACs at the gate. AND THEY WERE OUTMANNED!!! If you think that’s any fair at all, then you’re a kitten WvW was perfectly fine the way it was. The only buff the AC needed was a range buff. That’s it! Damage was perfectly fine. It is now impossible to take a bunkered down keep/tower/camp because of the unbalance this buff is bringing.

This actually encourages large zergs. You need MORE people to take objectives now that every before. Everyone who thinks “YAY the end of zerging” isn’t thinking this through.

I think a 50% increase in damage would have been way more prudent. As it stood before I could stand in arrow cart fire almost indefinitely if it was only one hitting me. Add to that combo fields giving me regen, other support abilities, heals, etc and raining arrows were just a fancy effect on my screen. Arrow carts needed more teeth, and let’s not forget both sides have them. An attacking force can use them just like a defending force can.

Range is way over the top though. This is really what is giving insane advantage to defenders moreso than the damage itself. The fact that not only has damage increased but now more arrow carts can hit the gates has compounded the dps exponentially and made rams useless.

Then again, I think everyone is really just shell shocked by this change right now. Attacking forces are fully capable of coming up with new strategies to use arrow carts in their favor. I haven’t experimented with some of the ideas I have yet, but it’s only day one. Let’s not go too crazy about this.

Oh I can’t wait to go into WvW now and face Vizunah with this arrowcart upgrade…

Well, back to good old time when Boss was on top of SM, and when enemies entered there were greeted by 10+ arrowcarts and ballistaes, nice times!

on a serious note – the change seems actually good. It certainly not casual friendly, but puts bigger accent on defence and higher requirements for offense – which is not a bad thing

JaredKincade.9761:

This actually encourages large zergs. You need MORE people to take objectives now that every before. Everyone who thinks “YAY the end of zerging” isn’t thinking this through.

people saying this kinda reminds me of the monobattles day9 daily

“vikings killing your broodlords?
well kitten
better build more broodlords”

I agree with the op Viz more than likely spent their points on guard damage to help with their PVE/door action hehe

I might aswell write my first impression about the arrow carts in here. I am a commander from Kodash (we are well known for our arrowcart defences) and had the primetime lead after the wvw patch. Improved arrowcarts were allready very powerfull before the patch. After knocking down some defences on various Towers and keeps it was apparent that there s no way we would get anywhere with upgraded rams as soon as there were 3 or more people manning arrowcarts inside.
Building arrowcarts in front of the gate to take down some of the defence inside was basicly impossible under arrowcart fire. Players with offensiv equip would allready go down while destroying canons and oil. We used Trebuchets from afar to force the enemy out on the field but after the third defensiv treb was built out of reach of our own the trebs were soon lost because there is no way to defend them. So we reverted to 5 Golems and cought our enemy by surprise on the east tower. They had 2 or 3 defenders inside manning a balista and arrowcarts and got some more people inside before the reinforced door and our golems went down at the same time. We built 6 upgraded arrowcarts inside and picked up our defensiv positions while 2 trebs destroyed the south wall of the tower. we held the tower for 2 a half hours with open walls during which our enemys would drop like flies to arrowcart and ae dmg. They tried mesmer portals and there was abit more pressure on us, but i was never worried we would loose the tower. The new arrowcarts are something that strikes fear into a person who takes responsability for other players lifes. It will be very tuff to take a tower that is manned by 2-5 people. I do not dare to think of keeps. It requieres advanced tactics, more people and certainly a surprise moment. Upgraded Rams will mainly be used to storm empty keeps during nightshifts.
In my humble opinion the arrowcart dmg is to high and alot of players will have less sucessfull experiences taking a manned tower during primetime. While defending has been made alot easyer.
Conclusion:
We will be building arrowcarts on open fields, in supply camps, while sieging or defending a tower. even if the arrowcart just gets off 2 or 3 shots it will have been worth it to do 2 or 3x 2000+ dmg to over 50 people. there will be less time for might stacking, but 2 upgraded arrowcarts means 10 000 dmg in the inicial seconds before the armys clash and will probably win the fight or force the enemy to retreat. This will be the new confusion in terms of zerg busting. Less mobile but with the ability to hit up to 50 people at once

Wow, NA logged on and the same thing happened as on EU. Everyone that is known for actually playing this game and good at it hates this patch. Other people like it.

I’m loving all the examples of impregnable Hills.

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

referring to your screenshot now you better hope all those sites can be completed now within 2 mins or they will be destroyed no more supply runs to finish build sites.
not to mention what are the chances of having 14 players spec’d for arrow cart upgrade in an average encounter?

JaredKincade.9761:

This actually encourages large zergs. You need MORE people to take objectives now that every before. Everyone who thinks “YAY the end of zerging” isn’t thinking this through.

No. You need more tactic and brains rather than just getting in one blob and autoattacking gate or dropping rams.

Killtrox.2019:

You have to be a really really really utterly horrible player if you think this buff is a good thing. I just tried taking T3 hills with my 40-50 man zerg against outmanned JQ in T1 fight. Not only did they wipe every thing I tried building, they had a counter for EVERYTHING I had. ACs demolished rams before they had a chance to even be built, golems will just get wrecked by the ACs, they had mortars and trebs to counter my trebs because they kittened swirling winds. I spent 3 hours trying to take it and only scratched about 100 supply from their depot. Not to mention like half of my zerg were getting killed by the ACs at the gate. AND THEY WERE OUTMANNED!!! If you think that’s any fair at all, then you’re a kitten WvW was perfectly fine the way it was. The only buff the AC needed was a range buff. That’s it! Damage was perfectly fine. It is now impossible to take a bunkered down keep/tower/camp because of the unbalance this buff is bringing.

You outmanned them? Then how could they have enough men to withstand 20 people keeping them occupied at the south gate, 20 people keeping them occupied at the north gate and 10 people using 3-4 catapults to punch through the western wall?

At least one of the points should have been breached. Or wait you had 50 people trying to ram and bash the same gate that they could focus all their defense on? O.o

You cannot build any siege while the AC with SUPER AWESOME RANGE is firing. It makes rams and catapults USELESS. There is NO WAY in the game to block AC fire, its an aoe, not a projectile. That leaves Trebs and golums. Trebs now cannot be protected with ele swirls, so that means any mortars can blow the trebs up in just a few hits.

ANYONE who plays this game knows this is a TERRIBLE change. Its very very very bad.

playing league of legends, game where the devs actually play / test new updates before releasing them. Let me know when anet fixes arrow carts or actually adds a guild pvp system.
the effort put into wvw is probably comparable to the war z.

12 pages of roamers QQ’ing???? If you want “Melee Wars 2” how about going to sPvP please? There should be more and new types of siege in WvW.

Wolfe, siege is not the problem, we love siege. The problem is that arrowcarts now prevent any siege from being built within cata range or closer. You literally cannot put supply on it fast enough to build it while those ACs are on it.

Now there is no fighting in open field, everyone’s just stopping and dropping arrowcarts in in the zerg. The fun part of the game was the open field warefare, now defenders hide in towers or huddle around their arrowcarts they built.

So umm… my deepest condolences for anyone fighting Riverside…

Everyone stop freaking out, ANET is really good about fixing mistakes if it really is a mistake. They do a good job balancing out a game it just takes time and tweaking. <3 anet

warsock.7830:

Everyone stop freaking out, ANET is really good about fixing mistakes if it really is a mistake. They do a good job balancing out a game it just takes time and tweaking. <3 anet

50% nerfs & 80% buffs… I wouldn’t call that good balancing that just needs “tweaking”

KStudios.2850:

Since when was Sekz part of the hoard? Is that your official stance on the issue? If so I’m sorry, and I pray you forgive me, but if that be the case then we must disagree. I’m not Sekz material, nor have I ever claimed to be. I’m not known for zerg-busting on a regular basis. My name does not echo through the halls of these forums.

I’m tired of being steamrolled under-foot because some sea-guild nightcaps consistantly night after night in the instances when you guys aren’t around to save us (and frankly I’d think you’d be tired of saving us). I’m tired of being just a smear on the ground in some mobs karma train. Then having my carcass “bagged” and laughed at in the lord’s room I so desperately tried to defend like I was the one whose efforts were pointless. There’s no good fight in a 4v30+, and we certainly don’t get respected for our efforts in trying.

So you’re mad about trying to hold during off hours? And now you can with the new arrow carts? Now take that situation and apply it to prime time. Realize how much of a potential clusterkitten it is going to cause for any sort of offensive, whether it is our own or opposing sides. There are guilds on the other side that already try to lock down even supply camps with siege. Frame of reference: last time we danced with SBZY, they had 5-6 ballista waiting for us. Those ballista could have been post-patch arrow carts. The situation could have turned out a whole lot different if that were the case.

Furthermore, thanks to a range increase, the ability to potentially clear defensive emplacements is now in jeopardy.

It’s not often that we PvDoor, but now I want to avoid it completely. While I speak for myself on that, I’m sure others echo the sentiments. So you can go hold off the night cap. But don’t be surprised when the forces who pull their weight on offense don’t want to play ball.

And if they’re tossing arrow carts in the middle of zergs? Ugh.

DeWolfe.2174:

12 pages of roamers QQ’ing???? If you want “Melee Wars 2” how about going to sPvP please? There should be more and new types of siege in WvW.

And if all you want to do is sit in a cap point and rain siege on people I hear there is a very robust selection of tower defense games to choose from.

I’m quoting this for sheer…

quote:Have fun sieging 24/7, I’d rather go out have some good fights, but AC will ruin all fights nearby keeps and towers, people will even build AC in the complete open to kill.

I’ve quoted it as it made me laugh- you mean you weren’t building ac and ballys out in the open before? One of my favoured tactics in even fights was to throw down a bally and a couple AC, enemy pushes and whack AC and bally hits at the same time as our team turns and hits= battle won.

As for all the QQ, this change makes for much more tactical placement and more use of trebs in open field positions, and having to replace them after they are killed too in new spots. It also means more people need to rush and suicide killing mortars before starting a siege or as part of the plan.

Was great fun last night placing trebs to attack SM’s dozen or so trebs – AM had three times our numbers but that didn’t stop some great fights.

These changes make carrying supply in your group even more important so that when someone throws down a treb it is instantly built and can fire on and remove all those pesky AC from a lot of places.

Makes the game much more fun for me, now mindless zerg can be more easily dealt with and it takes tactics and effort to take a well defended t3 keep.

Yes, the large zergs with 15 supply can drop 4 superior arrow carts in about 10 seconds.
Done.

Lets say you get the walls down in a keep by trebbing (and assuming they are too dumb to use their own trebs AND don’t have mortars). Now you have to go through the hole in the wall you made. Prime time? with equal forces on each side? No way will anyone be able to get inside to hit the enemy players. It will be camp camp camp all day long with 8+ AC. Portal into the trebs past the choke yous say? Ooops, mesmers can’t even cloak with the new skill. In a few days, all sides will realize this and we just wont hit each others keeps while the other server is on with near equal numbers.

We’ll just be fighting to cap camps >5 mins of the tick, because that will be the only available PPT during NA primetime (or EU primetime on EU server). We will wait to hit keeps until the coverage of the enemy forces goes down enough to even attempt a push at a keep.

BUT

Your right, they have fixed mistakes before, but I think the thread is to explain WHY its a mistake, and how absolutely broken it makes the game right now. If they make a statement, then we can all relax then.

Seriously though devs, just ninja log into a tier 1 or 2 server and watch us try to take a keep. Skilled commanders that know what they are doing can’t get close.

Sorry for the QQ, but this really is important to the game. You will have people logging off out of frustration soon.

Siege Escalation:

0 defenders = flame ram
defender builds a cart → Attackers build catapult/treb
defender builds a treb → Attackers try to build a treb. It won’t work. The End.

The only fortifications that are going to be captured after this change are:

- Fortifications that are undefended
- Fortifications that the attacking side can gain a height advantage on, i.e. Anzalias, Bay.

The siege arms race ends at trebs and whoever has the height advantage. Before this change it was sometimes advantageous to close range on an enemy when under pressure, i.e. move from a catapult/treb to a golem or ram. Now that’s never going to be the case.

Victory.2879:

I’m quoting this for sheer…

quote:Have fun sieging 24/7, I’d rather go out have some good fights, but AC will ruin all fights nearby keeps and towers, people will even build AC in the complete open to kill.

I’ve quoted it as it made me laugh- you mean you weren’t building ac and ballys out in the open before? One of my favoured tactics in even fights was to throw down a bally and a couple AC, enemy pushes and whack AC and bally hits at the same time as our team turns and hits= battle won.

As for all the QQ, this change makes for much more tactical placement and more use of trebs in open field positions, and having to replace them after they are killed too in new spots. It also means more people need to rush and suicide killing mortars before starting a siege or as part of the plan.

Was great fun last night placing trebs to attack SM’s dozen or so trebs – AM had three times our numbers but that didn’t stop some great fights.

These changes make carrying supply in your group even more important so that when someone throws down a treb it is instantly built and can fire on and remove all those pesky AC from a lot of places.

Makes the game much more fun for me, now mindless zerg can be more easily dealt with and it takes tactics and effort to take a well defended t3 keep.

You can’t keep trebs alive. The mortars and counter trebs. You cant hit the mortars on inner hills with a treb because you can’t see them. You can build it in a new spot, I’ll just move the treb/mortar and kill it because you can’t ele block it now. You also cannot hit ACs in front of a door with a treb, the range is too close. Sure I can kill an AC or two with 100 cost supply trebs before it gets killed, but ACs are cheaper supply, and when I run to get more supply with my zerg, the defenders are doing the same. I have to hit a full camp of 100 to supply me for one treb. God forbid there is a waypoint and they can port inside with supply every 3 mins from another map.

And they are building ACs to protect the mortars on the outer walls, no one can get close enough to AOE the mortars down now lol.

I’m sorry, against competent opponents, this is a huge issue.