Guild Wars 2

Dutchares.6084:

WvW doesnt need class balance.
Just inprove your groups teamwork and you will beat the stealthers.

are you for real?

@Hepan http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Arrow didn’t know this one had CD? thought it was initiative. Also let’s say i run to try to make the thief loose initiative, then he can stealth and because of culling he can be stealthed for a while and regen initiative. So now the thief has catched me and got some initiative and can then start the fight. Your point is?

Kormona.7156:

@Hepan http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Arrow didn’t know this one had CD? thought it was initiative. Also let’s say i run to try to make the thief loose initiative, then he can stealth and because of culling he can be stealthed for a while and regen initiative. So now the thief has catched me and got some initiative and can then start the fight. Your point is?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep

Going stealth requires more ini or putting heal/another utility on CD, meaning you put another part of his bar on lockdown. If you cant win vs. somebody who can only spam 1 for a while/has 66% of his utilities down, then what can I say but l2p?

Delsabre.5934:

Getting ridiculous with the majority of Thieves and Elementalists charging groups of 3-4 opponents without hesitation, because they know they can get out most of the time if things goes bad, with a good chance to down someone.

You don’t see Rangers, Necros, Mesmers and Engineers try that very often for a reason. Heck, even Warriors and Guardians usually prefer to leg it vs 3-4. >_>

Mobility, Defense OR Burst from Elementalist / Thieves needs to be adjusted to be on par with the others.

I’ve an ele and if I go fighting alone a group of 4 ppl, I’ll die for sure… I love my pg, but it’s one of the most difficult and also of the most amazing for this reason… ele is great for support, so to defend and to conquer with other ppl… 1v1 is great if you know how to use it… 1v2 same thing, it depends from the opponents… but alone with group of 3-4 ppl, bah… if they aren’t noobs…

And most of you talk about swirling… guys, swirling is a skill with a certain cool down… we can use it to defend treb, but we need 4 ele to do it, and a perfect coordination… defend walls is more difficult, because if the trebs hit different position, we need more ele than 4… so don’t compare with thief skill… we need often a group to do well.

We’ve aoe, yes… skills very useful for supporting our group in defending or attacking, but we need to switch weapon and when we use the staff to do it, if then we face a group of enemies without support, we’ll die for sure… we need d/d to fight in certain situation and it isn’t easy to switch weapon during fighting… so you need to try an ele to understand.

I don’t think Anet have to nerf thief… yes it’s difficult to face a thief, I know, yesterday I fought with one… but any pg has own charateristic, own strong points and weak points… so have fun with them and don’t try to nerf some pg only because it’s too strong for you!

Thobek.1730:

Penguin.5197:

I remember before this game came out watching a video of developers talking about stealth saying that they wanted it to be used sparringly not all the time during fights. I wish I could find and link it here because in this case, they completely missed the mark for stealth.

After you mentioned that I went on a mission to track it down. found it for you. Right from the developers mouth.

watch it from 2:50 onwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWm8dTrEyWM

“unlike other games stealth is not unlimited” – perma stealth theives would disagree.

“its not unlimited it should be used with careful forethought” – yeah every 4-6 seconds. ohh big deal.

Hah…. HAHAHA this is SWTOR bad. Did they hire Hamburger Helper and Stanley Woo too?

Gotta laugh at all the thiefs here who think that “reacting” or “aoe” is the right way to counter a thief attack. Makes me wonder if they play their own class.
Now, when a thief combo is done the right way, both mug and cloack & dagger land immeditately from stealth. This cannot be avoided without thinking pre-hand, no matter how fast your reflexes are. To beat a thief, you must be one step ahead of them.
As for Aoe, it is generally very weak in any small scale encounter. Why would it magically be more powerful against invisible targets?
Control conditions, confusion and good burst are what truly work against thiefs.

The only “nerf” that I suggest is that the stealth attacks should go to a 5 second cooldown when they are negated by a defensive ability such as block. Currently their mechanics are way too hand helding (read noob-friendly).

Enginier in knight gear, every piece of armor and trinkets gives toughness. Tougness traits maxed. “Steal” hits for 7k -there goes half of my healt bar in one shot. I did not know im plaing an FPS where it takes 2 shots to kill you. Waiting for balance or other mmo.

Opynn.2936:

Enginier in knight gear, every piece of armor and trinkets gives toughness. Tougness traits maxed. “Steal” hits for 7k -there goes half of my healt bar in one shot. I did not know im plaing an FPS where it takes 2 shots to kill you. Waiting for balance or other mmo.

Looks balance to me.

Thief’s dagger is the only melee weapon that does not cleave therefore it must deal the most damage. All other melee weapon sets cleave up to 3 target.

Sifu.6527:

Opynn.2936:

Enginier in knight gear, every piece of armor and trinkets gives toughness. Tougness traits maxed. “Steal” hits for 7k -there goes half of my healt bar in one shot. I did not know im plaing an FPS where it takes 2 shots to kill you. Waiting for balance or other mmo.

Looks balance to me.

Thief’s dagger is the only melee weapon that does not cleave therefore it must deal the most damage. All other melee weapon sets cleave up to 3 target.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steal

Yea ^thats dagger attack. So what it doesnt cleave? You want to “Steal” to be aoe? You shodowstep and steal ability from 3 opponents? With no activation time, no cast time, no time to dodge he just took 1/2 of my hp bar while im wearing most defensive gear i can. But ok its balanced. I’m not going to be prey for another Ezio-assain-wannab who just faceroll on keybord and wins, no skilzz involved.

Opynn.2936:

Sifu.6527:

Opynn.2936:

Enginier in knight gear, every piece of armor and trinkets gives toughness. Tougness traits maxed. “Steal” hits for 7k -there goes half of my healt bar in one shot. I did not know im plaing an FPS where it takes 2 shots to kill you. Waiting for balance or other mmo.

Looks balance to me.

Thief’s dagger is the only melee weapon that does not cleave therefore it must deal the most damage. All other melee weapon sets cleave up to 3 target.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steal

Yea ^thats dagger attack. So what it doesnt cleave? You want to “Steal” to be aoe? You shodowstep and steal ability from 3 opponents? With no activation time, no cast time, no time to dodge he just took 1/2 of my hp bar while im wearing most defensive gear i can. But ok its balanced. I’m not going to be prey for another Ezio-assain-wannab who just faceroll on keybord and wins, no skilzz involved.

Yes, I know it is not a dagger attack. I was just talking about dagger damage in general. But for a 45sec F1 ability that you have to trait, that is balance.

A warrior’s axe F1 will crit for 10K w/o having to trait for it. What is your point?

Opynn.2936:

Sifu.6527:

Opynn.2936:

Enginier in knight gear, every piece of armor and trinkets gives toughness. Tougness traits maxed. “Steal” hits for 7k -there goes half of my healt bar in one shot. I did not know im plaing an FPS where it takes 2 shots to kill you. Waiting for balance or other mmo.

Looks balance to me.

Thief’s dagger is the only melee weapon that does not cleave therefore it must deal the most damage. All other melee weapon sets cleave up to 3 target.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steal

Yea ^thats dagger attack. So what it doesnt cleave? You want to “Steal” to be aoe? You shodowstep and steal ability from 3 opponents? With no activation time, no cast time, no time to dodge he just took 1/2 of my hp bar while im wearing most defensive gear i can. But ok its balanced. I’m not going to be prey for another Ezio-assain-wannab who just faceroll on keybord and wins, no skilzz involved.

It’s balanced in sPvP and that’s all that matters. Players have no problem handling thieves in sPvP, especially the thieves that rely heavily on CnD. The issue is culling in WvW and that’s it. Want a nerf? Not going to happen because of WvW.

In this thread: Thieves saying thieves aren’t OP. I see noone has been able to answer my question about what other class can kill in 2 hits. I rest my case.

Next up: thieves saying “guard” skill for ranger’s pets is OP.

Magiofdeath.2745:

In this thread: Thieves saying thieves aren’t OP. I see noone has been able to answer my question about what other class can kill in 2 hits. I rest my case.

Next up: thieves saying “guard” skill for ranger’s pets is OP.

I will answer your question.

Warrior Kill shot. 1 hit at 1500 range.

Sifu.6527:

Opynn.2936:

Sifu.6527:

Opynn.2936:

Enginier in knight gear, every piece of armor and trinkets gives toughness. Tougness traits maxed. “Steal” hits for 7k -there goes half of my healt bar in one shot. I did not know im plaing an FPS where it takes 2 shots to kill you. Waiting for balance or other mmo.

Looks balance to me.

Thief’s dagger is the only melee weapon that does not cleave therefore it must deal the most damage. All other melee weapon sets cleave up to 3 target.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steal

Yea ^thats dagger attack. So what it doesnt cleave? You want to “Steal” to be aoe? You shodowstep and steal ability from 3 opponents? With no activation time, no cast time, no time to dodge he just took 1/2 of my hp bar while im wearing most defensive gear i can. But ok its balanced. I’m not going to be prey for another Ezio-assain-wannab who just faceroll on keybord and wins, no skilzz involved.

Yes, I know it is not a dagger attack. I was just talking about dagger damage in general. But for a 45sec F1 ability that you have to trait, that is balance.

A warrior’s axe F1 will crit for 10K w/o having to trait for it. What is your point?

Warrior Eviscerate lol. Eviscerate need adrenialine thats one. Its 300 range thats two. And please i have 1000h on Warrior and did never hit anyone in WvW for 10k with Eviscerate. You may hit some glass canon for 7k if you get luck . Its so easy to dodge from Eviscerate that that comparison just make me laugh.

Point is that defence doesn not matter in this game. You can have 3k armor and you go down after 2 hits by glass canon theif attaking from nowhere, with no chance to avoid his attack. Welcome to the Theif Wars where all other classes are just pray for almighty noob slayers thieves.

Sifu.6527:

Magiofdeath.2745:

In this thread: Thieves saying thieves aren’t OP. I see noone has been able to answer my question about what other class can kill in 2 hits. I rest my case.

Next up: thieves saying “guard” skill for ranger’s pets is OP.

I will answer your question.

Warrior Kill shot. 1 hit at 1500 range.

Warrior Kill shot thats need adrenaline. Warrior Kill shot that have activation time 1 3/4 s. Warrior Kill shot that is so obvious that basicly Warrior is scraming out loaud
" Burst inc" If you have having trouble with Kill shot i say use what you all assasins-wannabe like to use: “L2P”

Suralin.3947:

Opynn.2936:

Sifu.6527:

Opynn.2936:

Enginier in knight gear, every piece of armor and trinkets gives toughness. Tougness traits maxed. “Steal” hits for 7k -there goes half of my healt bar in one shot. I did not know im plaing an FPS where it takes 2 shots to kill you. Waiting for balance or other mmo.

Looks balance to me.

Thief’s dagger is the only melee weapon that does not cleave therefore it must deal the most damage. All other melee weapon sets cleave up to 3 target.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steal

Yea ^thats dagger attack. So what it doesnt cleave? You want to “Steal” to be aoe? You shodowstep and steal ability from 3 opponents? With no activation time, no cast time, no time to dodge he just took 1/2 of my hp bar while im wearing most defensive gear i can. But ok its balanced. I’m not going to be prey for another Ezio-assain-wannab who just faceroll on keybord and wins, no skilzz involved.

It’s balanced in sPvP and that’s all that matters. Players have no problem handling thieves in sPvP, especially the thieves that rely heavily on CnD. The issue is culling in WvW and that’s it. Want a nerf? Not going to happen because of WvW.

This topic is about WvW not sPvP. I have no problem with thieves in spvp. And no i dont want a nerf. Let thieves giggle at big numbers. I want defence buff.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Gotta laugh at all the thiefs here who think that “reacting” or “aoe” is the right way to counter a thief attack. Makes me wonder if they play their own class.
Now, when a thief combo is done the right way, both mug and cloack & dagger land immeditately from stealth. This cannot be avoided without thinking pre-hand, no matter how fast your reflexes are. To beat a thief, you must be one step ahead of them.
As for Aoe, it is generally very weak in any small scale encounter. Why would it magically be more powerful against invisible targets?
Control conditions, confusion and good burst are what truly work against thiefs.

The only “nerf” that I suggest is that the stealth attacks should go to a 5 second cooldown when they are negated by a defensive ability such as block. Currently their mechanics are way too hand helding (read noob-friendly).

Sigh, gotta laugh at people who said AOE isn’t relevant because of ONE thief spec.

That said, I agree with a longer cool down on cloak n dagger only. That’s the skill that allows for permastealth. I’d actually go as far as to say it should be increased to 8 seconds. As compensation, I would increase the damage of cloak and dagger by 50%. That way, thieves hit harder, but you see them at least 50% of the time. Given they are the squishiest class, that would make them more fun to fight against.

Sifu.6527:

Magiofdeath.2745:

In this thread: Thieves saying thieves aren’t OP. I see noone has been able to answer my question about what other class can kill in 2 hits. I rest my case.

Next up: thieves saying “guard” skill for ranger’s pets is OP.

I will answer your question.

Warrior Kill shot. 1 hit at 1500 range.

Ok, let me rephrase. 2 hit kills that don’t take any time to charge and are instant. Backstab or whatever I got hit with twice was instant.

style.6173:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Gotta laugh at all the thiefs here who think that “reacting” or “aoe” is the right way to counter a thief attack. Makes me wonder if they play their own class.
Now, when a thief combo is done the right way, both mug and cloack & dagger land immeditately from stealth. This cannot be avoided without thinking pre-hand, no matter how fast your reflexes are. To beat a thief, you must be one step ahead of them.
As for Aoe, it is generally very weak in any small scale encounter. Why would it magically be more powerful against invisible targets?
Control conditions, confusion and good burst are what truly work against thiefs.

The only “nerf” that I suggest is that the stealth attacks should go to a 5 second cooldown when they are negated by a defensive ability such as block. Currently their mechanics are way too hand helding (read noob-friendly).

Sigh, gotta laugh at people who said AOE isn’t relevant because of ONE thief spec.

That said, I agree with a longer cool down on cloak n dagger only. That’s the skill that allows for permastealth. I’d actually go as far as to say it should be increased to 8 seconds. As compensation, I would increase the damage of cloak and dagger by 50%. That way, thieves hit harder, but you see them at least 50% of the time. Given they are the squishiest class, that would make them more fun to fight against.

You’d need the buff the hell out of pistol too otherwise you’ve destroyed P/D. S/D would need a buff too.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Sifu.6527:

Magiofdeath.2745:

In this thread: Thieves saying thieves aren’t OP. I see noone has been able to answer my question about what other class can kill in 2 hits. I rest my case.

Next up: thieves saying “guard” skill for ranger’s pets is OP.

I will answer your question.

Warrior Kill shot. 1 hit at 1500 range.

Ok, let me rephrase. 2 hit kills that don’t take any time to charge and are instant. Backstab or whatever I got hit with twice was instant.

The combo you’re refering to is Steal (traited for Mug) + Cloak and Dagger (CnD). CnD needs a .5 sec cast time. So therefore, based on your new perimeter, no one can in this game 2 hit kill someone without a charge/cast time.

If you were to rephse your perimeter to include precast abilities then only one other class can 2 kit kills someone.

Elementalist:
Prebuff Glyph of Elemental Power in Fire Attunement
(option use of Arcance Power)
Precast Fire Grab
Then Lightnight (900 range) to target.

Is this realistic? No. But hey, you asked.

Sifu.6527:

Magiofdeath.2745:

Sifu.6527:

Magiofdeath.2745:

In this thread: Thieves saying thieves aren’t OP. I see noone has been able to answer my question about what other class can kill in 2 hits. I rest my case.

Next up: thieves saying “guard” skill for ranger’s pets is OP.

I will answer your question.

Warrior Kill shot. 1 hit at 1500 range.

Ok, let me rephrase. 2 hit kills that don’t take any time to charge and are instant. Backstab or whatever I got hit with twice was instant.

The combo you’re refering to is Steal (traited for Mug) + Cloak and Dagger (CnD). CnD needs a .5 sec cast time. So therefore, based on your new perimeter, no one can in this game 2 hit kill someone without a charge/cast time.

Well, it certainly felt like it was instant. 1.75s for kill shot is a lot slower than 0.5s. Eh, I’m done with you. You’re obviously don’t realize thief class/stealth is OP in their current state – blame culling if you must – or don’t want to admit to it.

Next, you’re going to say rangers are OP, at which point I will just laugh at you.

style.6173:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Gotta laugh at all the thiefs here who think that “reacting” or “aoe” is the right way to counter a thief attack. Makes me wonder if they play their own class.
Now, when a thief combo is done the right way, both mug and cloack & dagger land immeditately from stealth. This cannot be avoided without thinking pre-hand, no matter how fast your reflexes are. To beat a thief, you must be one step ahead of them.
As for Aoe, it is generally very weak in any small scale encounter. Why would it magically be more powerful against invisible targets?
Control conditions, confusion and good burst are what truly work against thiefs.

The only “nerf” that I suggest is that the stealth attacks should go to a 5 second cooldown when they are negated by a defensive ability such as block. Currently their mechanics are way too hand helding (read noob-friendly).

Sigh, gotta laugh at people who said AOE isn’t relevant because of ONE thief spec.

That said, I agree with a longer cool down on cloak n dagger only. That’s the skill that allows for permastealth. I’d actually go as far as to say it should be increased to 8 seconds. As compensation, I would increase the damage of cloak and dagger by 50%. That way, thieves hit harder, but you see them at least 50% of the time. Given they are the squishiest class, that would make them more fun to fight against.

You’d need to buff the hell out of pistol too otherwise you’ve destroyed P/D. S/D would need a buff too.

I wont get into thief’s A-Nets take on how the assassin/ stealth rouge class should be played and balanced is way out of line as far as the mmo industry in general conceptualizes it to be played. Its very broken in how often it can stealth and that damage done to a cloaked player doesn’t bring it out of stealth. Like it should.

i’m pretty confident that if you hit something hidden you should know where it is because you hit it and it should be no longer hidden but it doesn’t work that way in GW2 you don’t even see numbers.

Daendur.2357:

tagnut.8621:

Thieves are still jaw droppingly overpowered and very very easy to play – a bad combination.

They need stealth to be less of a get out of jail free card. Fewer routes in to stealth, a greater revealed time and damage breaking stealth.

Steal is a utility skill – utility skills should not do 4-5k damage. That needs reducing.

Cloak and dagger is a restealth skill – decide if that is offense or defense and adjust the damage/utility accordingly. 5-6k damage is too much in its current state.

Backstab – far too high on damage when used with the above. This needs reducing.

Heartseeker – mobility, damage and a finisher all in one spammable ability? This needs adjustment – remove the bonus damage at sub 50% and decide if its a gap closer or a damage ability and adjust accordingly – one has to go.

As we have it now we have a large population of thieves many relying on a steal/cnd/BS macro to one button down any target.

ANET wake up and listen – yes warriors have too much damage, and mesmers are a little OTT but 90% of the class complaints on your forums are about 1 class – thieves.

You remember me of Silvio Berlusconi. You spread out lies and make black propaganda; or maybe you are just ignorant and don’t know anything about this profession.
So please refrain from making this kind of posts.

The main flaw however with your retort is everything I said was true. Thieves are grossly overpowered and simplistic to play – thats a bad combo. They need significant nerfs to burst, stealth and utility.

Opynn.2936:

Enginier in knight gear, every piece of armor and trinkets gives toughness. Tougness traits maxed. “Steal” hits for 7k -there goes half of my healt bar in one shot. I did not know im plaing an FPS where it takes 2 shots to kill you. Waiting for balance or other mmo.

Screenshot of your exotic gear/traits and the combat log, please. Thanks.

I find it really funny that the only people that disagree with thieves being OP are the ones that main a thief. It would be a tragedy if the easiest class to play in PvP/WvW were nerfed rite? There’s a reason you see more thieves in pvp than pve – they suck in pve. Every thief I’ve been with in fractals dies left and right. The only useful thing I have seen from a thief in PvE is using the control panel in underground fractal, but anyone with ash legion spy kit can do the same.

@Warlord – yeah, in other mmos, damage breaks stealth and you can’t really stealth mid combat unless its a escape mechanic. In GW2, however, damage DOES NOT break stealth, even if they have a DoT on them and stealth is more than just a escape mechanic – its used to damage your opponent and finish them off, which is stupid.

Magiofdeath.2745:

I find it really funny that the only people that disagree with thieves being OP are the ones that main a thief. It would be a tragedy if the easiest class to play in PvP/WvW were nerfed rite? There’s a reason you see more thieves in pvp than pve – they suck in pve. Every thief I’ve been with in fractals dies left and right. The only useful thing I have seen from a thief in PvE is using the control panel in underground fractal, but anyone with ash legion spy kit can do the same.

What you don’t get is GW2 is so alt friendly I’d say a majority of players have multiple 80’s likely fully geared. If not, they have alts for sPvP. The trend is people who have a Thief character at all don’t complain because they understand the mechanics fully and have no problem dealing with it on any of their other professions that they happen to play. People who complain tend to not understand the game yet and have never invested time playing the Thief. No, you cannot get away with not knowing everything about your enemy in this game, no matter what profession and expect to be successful outside of just zerging.

lettucemode.3789:

Opynn.2936:

Enginier in knight gear, every piece of armor and trinkets gives toughness. Tougness traits maxed. “Steal” hits for 7k -there goes half of my healt bar in one shot. I did not know im plaing an FPS where it takes 2 shots to kill you. Waiting for balance or other mmo.

Screenshot of your exotic gear/traits and the combat log, please. Thanks.

You welcome.

Stiv.1820:

Magiofdeath.2745:

I find it really funny that the only people that disagree with thieves being OP are the ones that main a thief. It would be a tragedy if the easiest class to play in PvP/WvW were nerfed rite? There’s a reason you see more thieves in pvp than pve – they suck in pve. Every thief I’ve been with in fractals dies left and right. The only useful thing I have seen from a thief in PvE is using the control panel in underground fractal, but anyone with ash legion spy kit can do the same.

What you don’t get is GW2 is so alt friendly I’d say a majority of players have multiple 80’s likely fully geared. If not, they have alts for sPvP. The trend is people who have a Thief character at all don’t complain because they understand the mechanics fully and have no problem dealing with it on any of their other professions that they happen to play. People who complain tend to not understand the game yet and have never invested time playing the Thief. No, you cannot get away with not knowing everything about your enemy in this game, no matter what profession and expect to be successful outside of just zerging.

And how do you combat something you can’t see every 6-12 secs? Blindly throw AOE all over the place? Seems impractical. How do you fight back when you’re downed to someone that is stealthed and finishing you off? I’m sorry, but that part is complete BS. I think that annoys me the most. NO other class can stealth finish someone with their class’s mechanics (maybe snow leopard norn can?). GW1 didn’t have stealth, and assassins were fine in that game. They were still pretty powerful, but not any more powerful than any other class (and they were better in PvE than GW2 thiefs!). GW1 had more balanced PvP than 2 will ever have. GW2’s pvp is more like any other traditional mmo pvp, unbalanced.

Lol lettuce, looks like you got served by proof.

Opynn.2936:

lettucemode.3789:

Opynn.2936:

Enginier in knight gear, every piece of armor and trinkets gives toughness. Tougness traits maxed. “Steal” hits for 7k -there goes half of my healt bar in one shot. I did not know im plaing an FPS where it takes 2 shots to kill you. Waiting for balance or other mmo.

Screenshot of your exotic gear/traits and the combat log, please. Thanks.

You welcome.

Awesome. Thanks for lying on the forum. This is a good example of how players will exaggerate to try to prove their point.

And where I’m lying?

Opynn.2936:

And where I’m lying?

You said “there goes 1/2 my health bar.”

Culling honestly isn’t the thieves problem, thats ANETS allocation problem.

As far as the profession goes, thieves as a profession are extremely fragile, even in stealth they are very killable. It takes experience and practice to know how to fight thieves, but when you do they are much more manageable.

I defend thieves because they do not have the luxury of blocks, pain tolerance or damage reducing abilities. If they get hit, they go down. (Depending on your build, but for the most part they are fragile compared to the heavier classes.)

One thief killing three of your players just means that he/she knew how to play the profession very well. Most of the time what people don’t realize is that thieves rely on Cloak and Dagger most of the time to weave in and out of stealth. Deny them that, and you leave them in a very vulnerable position.

Thats my two cents.

Sifu.6527:

Opynn.2936:

And where I’m lying?

You said “there goes 1/2 my health bar.”

19k-7k=11k left

Still a lot of hp in single attack. And yes I was exaggerating a bit. Was i lying? I should have said that he took 39%-40%-45%-47%? (do the math) of my healt bar not 50%. Im so so so sorry. (Last sentence is a lie)

Magiofdeath.2745:

In this thread: Thieves saying thieves aren’t OP. I see noone has been able to answer my question about what other class can kill in 2 hits. I rest my case.

Next up: thieves saying “guard” skill for ranger’s pets is OP.

100 blades, gc shatter mes, whirling wraith on GC guard (I have done it).

That said I think you will see a backstab and mug nerf. Not needed but will happen. No what needs to happen is a CnD nerf so you can’t chain it off objects to stay in stealth. At the same time things like pistol whip and flanking strike need to be fixed/buffed. You know why you only see pistol/dagger and dagger/dagger thief? Becuase our other options are sub par at best.

Magiofdeath.2745:

And how do you combat something you can’t see every 6-12 secs? Blindly throw AOE all over the place? Seems impractical. How do you fight back when you’re downed to someone that is stealthed and finishing you off? I’m sorry, but that part is complete BS. I think that annoys me the most. NO other class can stealth finish someone with their class’s mechanics (maybe snow leopard norn can?). GW1 didn’t have stealth, and assassins were fine in that game. They were still pretty powerful, but not any more powerful than any other class (and they were better in PvE than GW2 thiefs!). GW1 had more balanced PvP than 2 will ever have. GW2’s pvp is more like any other traditional mmo pvp, unbalanced.

Lol lettuce, looks like you got served by proof.

There are a number of ways, it’s mostly about knowing your enemy. Is the thief using a dagger or sword mainhand? Likely they are. If they’ve melee’d you at all, this is most likely the case. If they stealth via CnD or Black powder, they are 90% of the time going for a backstab or Tactical strike.

Knowing this is important, because it gives you a HUGE clue as to where they are going, which is right behind you. Simply waiting a second and then turning and spamming 1 will let you know for sure, as your attack chains only complete if you’re hitting the thief. I get easy kills on thieves like this almost every day.

Then you have the aspect of stealth rhythm. Thieves have 3 – 4 seconds (if traited, glass cannons aren’t) to land their stealth skill after entering stealth, and since the thief is trying to kill you this is almost always what they will do. It takes some judgement but if they are far away and stealth, 3 – 4 seconds and dodge. Did they CnD you? They are immediately heading for your back. Dodge ASAP, use an invuln, block, blind, just turn around, teleport, throw a trap, anything. If they throw down SR, they are probably in danger of dying. Walk up to the circle and spam 1 until your chain completes. If they just run away…Well they weren’t much threat were they?

As for: “NO other class can stealth finish someone with their class’s mechanics” Stealth is one of the weaker finishers. Blind is superior, stability is a strong contender and completely better if you can take a few hits, and invulnerability (Mist Form, Elixer S, etc.) you can literally do absolutely NOTHING about.

Well, there was one moment where a thief, maybe 2 took an oddly long time to kill my necro (which I’m still learning how to play at least decently in WvW). I was able to make it from west supply camp to FA gari where I died before making it into the gari. I was completely expecting to die a lot sooner than that (thief was probably just toying with me). I had wrong skillset on and I didn’t have staff on swap at the time (like I said, noob at WvW necro atm). No, I’m not tooting my own horn – just sharing an experience where a thief didn’t kill me in 3 hits or so. This is a extremely rare occurrence. I was also alone at the time. I went to check why the camp was being tagged, fully expecting an ambush at some point.

@Jericho, thank you for the information. Much appreciated.

tagnut.8621:

Daendur.2357:

tagnut.8621:

Thieves are still jaw droppingly overpowered and very very easy to play – a bad combination.

They need stealth to be less of a get out of jail free card. Fewer routes in to stealth, a greater revealed time and damage breaking stealth.

Steal is a utility skill – utility skills should not do 4-5k damage. That needs reducing.

Cloak and dagger is a restealth skill – decide if that is offense or defense and adjust the damage/utility accordingly. 5-6k damage is too much in its current state.

Backstab – far too high on damage when used with the above. This needs reducing.

Heartseeker – mobility, damage and a finisher all in one spammable ability? This needs adjustment – remove the bonus damage at sub 50% and decide if its a gap closer or a damage ability and adjust accordingly – one has to go.

As we have it now we have a large population of thieves many relying on a steal/cnd/BS macro to one button down any target.

ANET wake up and listen – yes warriors have too much damage, and mesmers are a little OTT but 90% of the class complaints on your forums are about 1 class – thieves.

You remember me of Silvio Berlusconi. You spread out lies and make black propaganda; or maybe you are just ignorant and don’t know anything about this profession.
So please refrain from making this kind of posts.

The main flaw however with your retort is everything I said was true. Thieves are grossly overpowered and simplistic to play – thats a bad combo. They need significant nerfs to burst, stealth and utility.

They’ll need signifcant buffs to compensate. Thief’s defenses are very binary. Either they’re hit or they aren’t. No softening the blows with armour and boons. And they don’t have enough dodges or blinds to make up for it.

Bllade.1029:

As far as the profession goes, thieves as a profession are extremely fragile, even in stealth they are very killable. It takes experience and practice to know how to fight thieves, but when you do they are much more manageable.

And therein lies the problem. It shouldn’t take skill and experience just to match a player because he chose a certain class. That’s not balanced. OK, bad thieves are an exception, but average thief players nigh instant killing all but good players is what we have right now, and its not good.

I’m not saying give these thief skills hard nerfs that will reduce their efficiency in the hands of good players, but I would like to see these devastating combos require quite a bit more skill or setup to pull off.

As a thief main I completely agree that we are too OP. Sometimes, just to demonstrate how OP we are, I go around one-shotting rabbits and mosquitos. I’m like, stealth, 125k backstab, lulz. Especially with an infinite amount of initiative I can simply spam all my buttons like Mortal Combat and fatality the kitten out of zergs without ever paying attention to damage, terrain, classes & buffs, weapon equips/swaps, underleved nubs, endurance, stragglers, conditions, mobility or positioning. When people see me coming, which is rare because I’m usually perma-stealthed, they just stand there and let me one shot them because they know they can’t win. It’s impossible to have strategy against something you can’t see, so what’s the point of even trying. I encountered another thief on an opposing server. We ran up to each other, high fived at our OP’ness, dropped Shadow Refuge, went to In’n’Out for some animal style fries (because we knew it would be our last meal), came back and began our highlander duel till the end of time. That was three months ago. I’ve been in the same fight ever since. I’m only taking the time to post this because he’s on a bio break. Anet, please, if you care anything about your customers, nerf thieves, I need to sleep!

2/10 – decent effort but wasn’t that funny.

Magiofdeath.2745:

2/10 – decent effort but wasn’t that funny.

Who’s trying to be funny? Everything I wrote was true story.

Escher.5342:

Magiofdeath.2745:

2/10 – decent effort but wasn’t that funny.

Who’s trying to be funny? Everything I wrote was true story.

The rabbits and mosquitoes part was clearly very sarcastic, since every class does high damage to critters. The whole post was sarcastic. Nice try at being funny though.

Magiofdeath.2745:

2/10 – decent effort but wasn’t that funny.

I thought it was funny, although it does highlight the hilarity of this thread. The issue people are complaining about is not being able to see the thief in WvW due to culling. Yet, we still get threads like these by people who don’t know what culling is or that the thief, when culling is removed, is incredibly fragile (as is the case in sPvP). Yet, all people talk about is nerf, nerf, nerf with no idea as to why, after 6 months, ANet hasn’t nerfed Backstab, CnD, Mug, or Stealth (beyond the revealed debuff).

@Suralin:
So its ok to leave an imbalanced system in place for 6+ months? Yeah, they are having problems with culling right now, but its not like they can’t apply a band aid fix to nerf the op situation and then repeal it when culling is fixed. Obviously the revealed rebuff isn’t enough, or maybe it just needs a longer duration?

Thieves are not OP, people literally just don’t think how to kill them. If you stun or knockdown a thief, they are dead. I’m not sure they have a single stun break, at least not that is worth bringing.

The only thing I can see is an increase to the revealed debuff; that may actually balance it. The thief hinges on stealth, taking that away takes away the viability of the class.

Now, can this thread get locked and thrown with the other 100+ “Thieves are OP” threads?

Esoteric.5490:

Thieves are not OP, people literally just don’t think how to kill them. If you stun or knockdown a thief, they are dead. I’m not sure they have a single stun break, at least not that is worth bringing.

Shadowstep.

Roll for Initiative.

Infiltrator’s Signet.

Haste.

Infiltrator’s Strike/Return – spammable teleport (no cooldown), breaks stun, scrubs condition, immobilizes opponent…

I carry three of these at all times on my Thief; if I’m holding a sword your control abilities are worthless, as I’ll hit return on IS and be back riding your nuts in under 1/2 a second.

Why do people keep defending Thieves… when they apparently know jack spit about what Thieves are even capable of?

Suralin.3947:

Magiofdeath.2745:

2/10 – decent effort but wasn’t that funny.

I thought it was funny, although it does highlight the hilarity of this thread. The issue people are complaining about is not being able to see the thief in WvW due to culling. Yet, we still get threads like these by people who don’t know what culling is or that the thief, when culling is removed, is incredibly fragile (as is the case in sPvP). Yet, all people talk about is nerf, nerf, nerf with no idea as to why, after 6 months, ANet hasn’t nerfed Backstab, CnD, Mug, or Stealth (beyond the revealed debuff).

Yes, culling can be an issue, but people will use this excuse almost exclusively because the idea that they simply got outplayed is too difficult to accept. And the argument of “ermagerd one hit BS killz!” is just silly because it’s built around risk vs. reward. I’m not saying every argument is invalid, but I’ve put a lot of time into both pvp and wvw, and quite frankly, there are a lot of bad pvp’ers out there (when it comes to combat). Every build that I’ve experienced so far including the ones I have used has a counter build, but it’s as if the majority of the nay-sayers on the forums expect to do the same thing hoping for different results instead of experimenting and adapting with gameplay. I’ve had my booty handed to me plenty of times by other classes, but after enough time I’ve l2p effectively and have decreased the butt whoopings dramatically. In the end, I suppose I’m just trying to balance out the universe from the “burn the witch” mentality on these forums. I love this class, and contrary to popular belief it takes a bit of skill to pull off effectively. I’d hate to see Anet nerf it based off of unskilled players. But, even if they do, I’d suppose I’d adapt and be right back to stomping eventually.

Gaiawolf.8261:

And therein lies the problem. It shouldn’t take skill and experience just to match a player because he chose a certain class. That’s not balanced. OK, bad thieves are an exception, but average thief players nigh instant killing all but good players is what we have right now, and its not good.

I’m not saying give these thief skills hard nerfs that will reduce their efficiency in the hands of good players, but I would like to see these devastating combos require quite a bit more skill or setup to pull off.

But you have to do that with any class.

For instance and all of these are coming from a glass cannon perspective, if you try to fight a Ranger who knows what he is doing with a ranged weapon you’re gonna lose.

You try to Toe to Toe melee with a greatsword or hammer Warrior of the same skill level. You’re gonna lose.

You fight a bunker necromancer of the same skill level, without any condition removals or heals. You’re gonna lose.

It’s a combination of knowing what your profession is capable of, and what other professions are capable of. Not an imbalance, just experience.

You are right in a sense that in a one vs one situation, a thief fighting any other class that is glass cannon is going to have a huge advantage simply because they generally get the opening strike. Sure that’s true, but that’s not an imbalance.

Some professions are better at things than others, thats what makes them unique, and important in the WvW arena. Know what they are capable of and prepare accordingly.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Lol lettuce, looks like you got served by proof.

I didn’t “get served” by proof, I politely asked for proof and he provided it. I’m sick of people complaining about thieves with nothing to back it up.

Opynn.2936:

You welcome.

Thanks for being one of the few people around who can back up what you say. I have about that much toughness on my Necro too but I haven’t died to a solo thief in a very long time. Death Shroud helps with that I guess. Do engineers have any instant-cast protection or healing?