Guild Wars 2

Quenta.2978:

You can buy them in Metrica Province for 8 copper a piece. They increase in power off your stats. Was getting hit by them for 5-8k, you can just spam them on a target.

It probably should be nerfed or removed.

I seem to recall a post from you that said arrow carts should be removed too.

-.- The only real usefulness of these things:
1) Being in a Golem…admittedly that was OP, but it was OPness I agreed with because IT’S A FREAKIN’ GOLEM. It was the -only- “Defense” Golems had against getting kitten by Thieves.
2) Using them in “Alternate Forms”…Because of you guys, my Griffon can no longer run around attacking. I didn’t care that I was weaker than everyone else(because anyone who says they’re OP in an “Alternate Form” is fooling themselves…You get no active defenses, nothing.) I just liked doing it, kinda like taking Towers naked.

I still stick by my point that removing these instead of nerfing (you can’t move for goodness sake) is not the best way to go about things.

If you’re going to remove these can we please start blending more of PvE into WvW?

For instance, most professions beside making oils / stones / food aren’t that great so why not make people with max professions helpful in WvW

For instance, armorsmith can get a one time (large CD) shield that blocks siege damage

A weaponsmith can get a portable “door cutter” which does a % of what a ram would do but is slow and cant attack players

A huntsman can get a portable “sniper rifle” with one or two shots that do a lot of damage for clearing walls

Just some ideas to blend wvw and pve together since you’re removing most of our fun little toys like GiB

This is horrible…I can’t believe you guys let a few noobs talk you into removing golems in a box from wvw. For one you have to have your inventory open, click on them, then hit 1 to use them…the whole time you are standing still, and they are also considered projectiles, so therefore can be reflected, in turn destroying the sender and his party. How can this be op??? I say its a L2P issue and I wish Anet would see it the same way but I guess too many whiners are blowing a gasket so everyone has to suffer.

Well, something needed to be done. The fact that you could coordinate a bunch of keep defenders on the wall to basically kill everybody on attacking siege in 2-3 seconds was ridiculous. Especially since you can’t reflect back up walls.

gib is for cats anyway

MikeFerguson.8921:

They will not be usable in WvW after the next patch.

Mike, while you at it, you might want to look at the whole list of PvE consumables that are useable in WvW. Some of them are just fun and some AFAIK already been fixed, but golem in a box is not the only one that can shift balance on WvW. Like Skale Venom for example:
http://dulfy.net/2013/01/16/gw2-useful-and-fun-consumables-guide/#10

Scionyde.2704:

Well, something needed to be done. The fact that you could coordinate a bunch of keep defenders on the wall to basically kill everybody on attacking siege in 2-3 seconds was ridiculous. Especially since you can’t reflect back up walls.

There are so many things that I can say to this… it only works on people trying to smash their face on the gate… against rams maybe (which a cat behind the door would to kill the siege as well)… scorp wire people off because you have to stand at the very edge to use them… aoe the walls, marks fearbombs etc… chain block projectiles… any kind of coordination…

But yeah… you could have kept these in WvW and made them even weaker or not do any damage to siege or structures? I really like these to put on golems so they can defend themselves / be a tank.

Anyway, very frustrating… I’m done with this thread

Skale Venom isn’t too bad, honestly, though it does make a difference in combat. At the least it doesn’t totally change the way you plan defending a point. I was going to buy a stack of Skale Venom, but I think I’ll wait until the patch just in case they get nerf swatted too.

I, personally, agree with the spirit of removing the GiB from WvW. They alter the PvP structure of the game style, and I think that alone is enough reason to remove them regardless of how good they actually are.

SniffyCube.6107:

But yeah… you could have kept these in WvW and made them even weaker or not do any damage to siege or structures? I really like these to put on golems so they can defend themselves / be a tank.

1. Yes, removing the only downside to having super powerful, mobile siege (it having poor defense) is such a positive addition to the game. It makes things so interesting.

2. An all or nothing policy regarding consumables needs to be taken — I agree that the “nothing” policy is healthier long-term (and probably makes it a lot easier for them to add wacky things to PvE without wasting other players’ gold).

But you’re right, this is such a bad change.

SniffyCube.6107:

Scionyde.2704:

Well, something needed to be done. The fact that you could coordinate a bunch of keep defenders on the wall to basically kill everybody on attacking siege in 2-3 seconds was ridiculous. Especially since you can’t reflect back up walls.

There are so many things that I can say to this… it only works on people trying to smash their face on the gate… against rams maybe (which a cat behind the door would to kill the siege as well)… scorp wire people off because you have to stand at the very edge to use them… aoe the walls, marks fearbombs etc… chain block projectiles… any kind of coordination…

But yeah… you could have kept these in WvW and made them even weaker or not do any damage to siege or structures? I really like these to put on golems so they can defend themselves / be a tank.

Anyway, very frustrating… I’m done with this thread

Actually the reason I bring it up is because last night, those golems kept killing us on catapults that we were using to bring down the gate. And really, all they’d need to do is just stack up and on the count of 3, spam golems, and fall back before anybody could hit them. Granted, defenders can use that same tactic with aoe, but at least you get visual cues when it’s happening and can react.

And catapults aren’t that fast at killing rams, and they certainly don’t kill players that easily. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against neat little items being used in wvw, but not when they’re ridiculous like that.

Why didn’t you reflect? The little golems are projectiles.
Oh… and: Shaking head at the removal of fun items from WvW.
Why can’t you just ‘tone them down a bit’?

Pannonica.5378:

Why didn’t you reflect? The little golems are projectiles.
Oh… and: Shaking head at the removal of fun items from WvW.
Why can’t you just ‘tone them down a bit’?

Nothing is preventing them from creating WvW-only consumables, which honestly is better and the route I believe they’re going.

Kerithlan.1659:

Pannonica.5378:

Why didn’t you reflect? The little golems are projectiles.
Oh… and: Shaking head at the removal of fun items from WvW.
Why can’t you just ‘tone them down a bit’?

Nothing is preventing them from creating WvW-only consumables, which honestly is better and the route I believe they’re going.

I like this idea, could add some new dimensions to WvW fights

Can we make thieves not usable in pvp in the next patch?

I kid, I kid.

Maybe.

So thieves are PvE consumable? Hmm, interesting thought…

You got to be kidding me Anet.Thieves and perma stealth with the imposibility to EVER target them are 1000 times more gamebreaking than consumables.Last time i checked EVERYBODY could use them unlike STEALTH.You decide to listen to a couple of whiners that are too lazy to make a different build other than glasscanon removing a huge fun part of the game for all the players.Lets remove pve alltogether cuz the gold and karma u ca get from PVE is way too OP and unfair to wvw users shall we?

alrite everyone lets reroll to thief i ll teach ya all how to do 30-50k damage in a blink without letting your opponent even load a single skill because that is perfectly balanced

i ve been keeping my builds and such hidden but we arent given a choice when it comes to wvw its either be the OP guys or be the guys taking it from behind.

MikeFerguson.8921:

They will not be usable in WvW after the next patch.

Thanks Mike, for ArenaNet’s continued efforts at removing the aspects of fun and player initiative from the game.

On one hand you remove PvE elements from WvW because they are deemed to be overpowered/unbalancing, yet on the other hand you put PvE elements (like Siegerazer) into the game that are clearly overpowered/unbalancing.

Why not be done with it and just force us to use the PvP template and PvP gear in WvW?

wth, why remove this?

I’d reiterate from the post just about cons that WvW specific cons that are designed for WvW could be a fun element to the game, provided they are not ridiculously expensive or over the top in effect. The people defending the golem boxes though obviously were not part of a siege where streams of golems were flying off a wall while the users were immune to pulls and in some cases to any damage at all.

The golems float over wall lip obstructions and home in at unlimited distance…yes it’s easy to deal with a few users throwing them, but when many players are throwing them from differant directions (think inner keep walls and lord rooms) it is / was totally out of control. Use your heads…they are essentially mobile siege that bypasses normal defensive siege mechanics (requires supply, stationary, most AC’s and ballistas with good visual range can be destroyed or counter sieged).

zen.6091:

The golems float over wall lip obstructions and home in at unlimited distance.

LOL. I love it when people make stuff up to support their position. The mini-golems will NOT jump over any obstruction, and that includes the outside lip of the top of a wall. They also do not have unlimited range. Read the tooltip for gods sake … the range is 1600.

As I said before, I don’t really care if the cute little buggers were banned from WvW or not. They weren’t in any way as much of an issue as all the Chicken Littles here tried to portray them. They were amusing, though.

I just wish they would find a way to make WvW and PvE a bit more cohesive. The way it is now, I think sharing PvP items and WvW would’ve been better.

Cactus.2710:

zen.6091:

The golems float over wall lip obstructions and home in at unlimited distance.

LOL. I love it when people make stuff up to support their position. The mini-golems will NOT jump over any obstruction, and that includes the outside lip of the top of a wall. They also do not have unlimited range. Read the tooltip for gods sake … the range is 1600.

Yes, they do jump over wall lips that obstruct movement (i.e. prevent pulls), and also fly right down for hits that most skills do have LoS for. As for the range, I’m not sure how range is calculated with vertical distance as well, but they definitely go further than traited grenades or longbow attacks.

Mini Golems=projectiles=reflectable=enough said.

Why fix an amusing element of the stale WvW, if you can delete it altogether… seems legit.
Speaking of which, I wonder when Engineers are being deleted.

zen.6091:

Cactus.2710:

zen.6091:

The golems float over wall lip obstructions and home in at unlimited distance.

LOL. I love it when people make stuff up to support their position. The mini-golems will NOT jump over any obstruction, and that includes the outside lip of the top of a wall. They also do not have unlimited range. Read the tooltip for gods sake … the range is 1600.

Yes, they do jump over wall lips that obstruct movement (i.e. prevent pulls), and also fly right down for hits that most skills do have LoS for. As for the range, I’m not sure how range is calculated with vertical distance as well, but they definitely go further than traited grenades or longbow attacks.

I just tested it again. They go through some lips, jump over others, and get blocked by some. I couldn’t see any reason for the differences.

Yes … they go all of 100 units further than traited grenades or longbows. Big deal. As slow, visible, and easy to block/avoid as they are I don’t see how that makes them OP. What’s the difference between a half dozen rangers/engineers focusing a poorly placed siege or a half dozen players using GiBs for the same purpose? Not much.

MikeFerguson.8921:

They will not be usable in WvW after the next patch.

No more fun…..

One step further to taking away the kid’s crutches. Next up is skale venom and rocks

Ok…if pve elements are to “OP” for wvw, you guys might as well take all of the pve elements out of wvw. That will end the days of people rezzing from killing a “PVE” mob to rez, while another player is killing them, doesn’t that take away from the “PVP” experience? I personally don’t understand the thinking of why these things are taken out of wvw, they are not as “OP” as some say but they do work very well when coordinated, but as myself and a few others said above they can be reflected which will destroy the sender and anyone around! How is that “OP”???? And…OMG are they slow moving, I can’t tell you how many times I have sent them out to a group of people and they just sit there and take the damage, and I’m sure those are the ones who are whining because they didn’t think of it or don’t want to figure out how to counter them. They only hit 3 pple per golem and its actually a very small area around the original target that it will hit. Please “MIKE of Anet” can you give us some sort of explanation as to WHY exactly you are taking these out of wvw? From the looks of it many of us would like to know!

Oh and btw…they already took the rocks away…..

Cactus.2710:

I just tested it again. They go through some lips, jump over others, and get blocked by some. I couldn’t see any reason for the differences.

Yes … they go all of 100 units further than traited grenades or longbows. Big deal. As slow, visible, and easy to block/avoid as they are I don’t see how that makes them OP. What’s the difference between a half dozen rangers/engineers focusing a poorly placed siege or a half dozen players using GiBs for the same purpose? Not much.

Meh, last golem box post I’m going to make. Does it not diminish the value of grenadiers and LB rangers if anyone can sit on a wall in relative safety pumping golem boxes, regardless of LoS?

I wish I had made a video of what happened on EBG last night in valley (JQ keep). There were many streams of golem boxes coming from multiple directions on inner. In the chaos of busting into an inner keep, you simple cannot dodge them all, realistically use WoF to protect, or go rambo to hunt down everyone dropping them right away before you even have a foothold inside. There might have been people dropping them off the vista steps too. Mind you, JQ was pushed pretty quickly and never had the supply to siege up inner with actual siege.

Please consider the logical escalation of this (everyone employing them as a defensive strategy) and realize why they had to be removed…yes WvW is supposed to be fun and often amusingly gimmicky, but it doesn’t have to be that degenerate.

Yea c’mon anet at least make something comparable to it…. Gibs spiced things up make them a print or something in the big WvW update coming plz plz plz

lol at all the people whining about them being removed.

Psychatog.8246:

ive was getting 8.4-9k crits with them while my alpha golem was wielding golems in a box

Its a shame I’ve only just found out about Golem in a Box, i could have had much more fun!

awww can’t we just tone down the damage without completely removing them? I thought some environmental weapons already normalized your traits, can’t you just do that instead, and have them hit for a much lesser amount?

It’s not like they do anything special other than give you a ranged attack while using a transformation. It sure looked funny with the quaggans, and they were just ganging up on a lone player for lols (something easily accomplished without a consumable)

I’ve known about this for a solid month, and my feeling about this beautiful item getting removed from WvW… Is all contained in this video link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4

So what day is actually being removed?

28th (Tomorrow)

The main problem with them is not how strong they are, but how fast you can spam them, and how many of them you can get.
Even if you take them out of WvW, they are still too much.

So they should make two changes for them, and for all combat-oriented consumables for that matter, including those that summon things.
First, require you to equip them in 1 of 4 lots (F5 to F8) to use, giving you a skill. Then give a skill a proper cooldown, so you can’t spam them.
Second, something like what I suggested here so one can’t get several stacks of them in one go (they are soulbound, so no trades).

potimus.2613:

This is horrible…I can’t believe you guys let a few noobs talk you into removing golems in a box from wvw. For one you have to have your inventory open, click on them, then hit 1 to use them…the whole time you are standing still, and they are also considered projectiles, so therefore can be reflected, in turn destroying the sender and his party. How can this be op??? I say its a L2P issue and I wish Anet would see it the same way but I guess too many whiners are blowing a gasket so everyone has to suffer.

Good thing you’re not a game designer. The problem is when people stand behind their zerg and shoot them through. The enemy team can’t see them through your clusterfu%$ of people and end up dying to ridiculous damage that they never saw coming.

I agree with this decision entirely, and for a couple reasons;

1. I can hit for ~3k+ a second at 1600 range as a homing AoE, on my Necro, which autoattacks for <500.
2. Not all classes have a reflect (Necro comes to mind.)
3. To all those saying that “if you reflect them, they’ll wipe the user’s team.” That means they are acknowledging that the GiBs of one person can devastate a multitude of people, and thus are deserving of this action.
4. If they weren’t so useful and effective, they wouldn’t have such a militant force defending them.
5. ANet made it clear that they intend for there to never be a necessity to leave WvW. This clearly violates that tenet by forcing people to either suffer a huge disadvantage.

Regardless, it is said and done.

I used GiB last week as I just discovered them and our guild was having hilarious fun annoying the crap out of the enemy with them. Seriously I think there were tears of laughter at some point.

But, they were ridiculous. We all knew it. And I would actually be upset if they were not removed. I never expected them to be around for long which was why I had no problem having a little bit of fun in the meantime.

Those defending their use look pretty silly. Everyone knew they were ridiculous and that they wouldn’t be around long.

At the same time, the few people that have called it an “exploit” are idiots. When a class uses a skill that is generally considered to be overpowered it is not an “exploit.” It is an overpowered ability that needs fixed. When someone uses a consumable such as food which is considered to be way too powerful – that too is not an “exploit.” It is an imbalance that needs fixed.

GIBs were imbalanced because they could be so powerful for people who had lots of power and precision. But they were freely available to all, they were used exactly as they were designed to be use (click on them let them run after tragets and blow up) and they were allowed to be used in WvW.

You may feel they were OP (because they were, even I know that) but it was not an “exploit” to use them.

Good that they nerfed them however. We all knew that was coming.

MithranArkanere.8957:

The main problem with them is not how strong they are, but how fast you can spam them, and how many of them you can get.
Even if you take them out of WvW, they are still too much.

So they should make two changes for them, and for all combat-oriented consumables for that matter, including those that summon things.
First, require you to equip them in 1 of 4 lots (F5 to F8) to use, giving you a skill. Then give a skill a proper cooldown, so you can’t spam them.
Second, something like what I suggested here so one can’t get several stacks of them in one go (they are soulbound, so no trades).

I agree with this. The fact that it has no cooldown makes them overpowering.

Last person I saw using a golem in the box ate a pile of dirt with a flag in their back. Dunno what the big deal is.

They only hurt from seige golems as others have said. Or if you are too squishy for wvwvw already.

LMFAO!!! Tried this is my thief and it hits for 6-8k. Having a lot of fun.

Did anyone buy like hundreds of these things and now are stuck with them?

Kumu Honua.2751:

Last person I saw using a golem in the box ate a pile of dirt with a flag in their back. Dunno what the big deal is.

They only hurt from seige golems as others have said. Or if you are too squishy for wvwvw already.

Oh yea? I have 2900+ armor on one of my chars that was being hit for 6-8k from both a thief and a ranger. I guess 2900 armor is “squishy” now..

They are BS when your standing on a wall far enough back not to be hit by anything but ranger/ele aoe and they just go over the lip, or standing in the back of a zerg since they have 1600 range. I’ve noticed people are scripting them now sending a solid stream out.

SOO glad they will be removed today.

since they’re disabled there’s no use really arguing about it and a mod should close this