Guild Wars 2

I think it’s not only the buff to arrowcarts, but also the removal of any way to defend against them, IE. Swirls etc. Was anyone really complaining about swirls?? really?? It added a tactic and also gave the focus a reason to be used… At a loss with this patch.

After having put in around 12-14 hours in WvW since the patch and taking alot of towers and keeps that are well defended, theres really no problem here. It just takes some adjustments now and you need to think about what your doing before you do it. WvW has been designed to be easy mode for a long time. The arrowcarts force you to think tactically and to play smart. The reality is there are just alot of casuals who play this game and aren’t half as good at it as they think they are and since they have tunnel vision and the karma train mentality built into them they fail to adapt and get wiped. I hope Anets developments keep going the way they are. Im all for implementing tactics and skill to be a part of WvW and getting rid of this zerg mentality that people have become accustomed to.

sostronk.8167:

After having put in around 12-14 hours in WvW since the patch and taking alot of towers and keeps that are well defended, theres really no problem here. It just takes some adjustments now and you need to think about what your doing before you do it. WvW has been designed to be easy mode for a long time. The arrowcarts force you to think tactically and to play smart. The reality is there are just alot of casuals who play this game and aren’t half as good at it as they think they are and since they have tunnel vision and the karma train mentality built into them they fail to adapt and get wiped. I hope Anets developments keep going the way they are. Im all for implementing tactics and skill to be a part of WvW and getting rid of this zerg mentality that people have become accustomed to.

whoa whoa wait…. we shouldnt just mindlessly run up stairs once the tower wall goes down?

like lolz WHATEVER

IcerXx.3670:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Stop hiding behind your OP arrow cart and COME AT ME BRO.

Indeed, leave the defensive position you hold, and mindlessly charge into the group that outnumbers you 4:1, 5:1, or in some terrible cases, 10:1. This is why I believe you people just need to learn to play.

Did I say we outnumbered them at any stage in my post? They were not outnumbered at all, if anything they had more numbers than us. We were the the brave ones trying to attack their keep while outnumbered – they were scared to come outside and PvP us. So it ended up being PvS (outnumbered players vs overpowered siege).

sostronk.8167:

After having put in around 12-14 hours in WvW since the patch and taking alot of towers and keeps that are well defended, theres really no problem here. It just takes some adjustments now and you need to think about what your doing before you do it. WvW has been designed to be easy mode for a long time. The arrowcarts force you to think tactically and to play smart. The reality is there are just alot of casuals who play this game and aren’t half as good at it as they think they are and since they have tunnel vision and the karma train mentality built into them they fail to adapt and get wiped. I hope Anets developments keep going the way they are. Im all for implementing tactics and skill to be a part of WvW and getting rid of this zerg mentality that people have become accustomed to.

Would you mind to share some more details? Which Map, what tower? what was your aproximate numbers, how many trebs did you use, how long did it take to get a tower? how many players were defending?

It certainly can be done, specially on the eternal battlegrounds. It s just a question if people want to stand around trebs, running for supplies all the time build ac to protect the exposed trebs etc. And in the end you re lucky if you get a decent fight in the tower.
When the most important skills become 1-2-3 from siege weapons and swiftness buffing the game is dead to me.

Hope not. I’m lovin’ this. The anti-zerg is here! I don’t know what everyone is complaining about. Because you can’t karma-train the towers I’ve worked so hard to upgrade anymore? I honestly haven’t been killed by one of the new carts yet. Did get pretty close with some clever use of tower steps as a choke point though.

Gods forbid we should have to actually think and get more involved, right?

KStudios.2850:

Hope not. I’m lovin’ this. The anti-zerg is here! I don’t know what everyone is complaining about, because you can’t karma train the towers I’ve worked so hard to upgrade anymore? I honestly haven’t been killed by one of the new carts yet. Did get pretty close with some clever use of tower steps as a choke point though.

If a karma train can’t take your tower then what chance does a guild special ops/havoc team have.
It ends up the only good way to take something is Player vs Door, because even 1 enemy player in a tower can keep a guild special ops/havoc team out.
Exactly what we don’t want.
The issue is that the arrow carts don’t care if you are part of a zerg or not – so small guild teams suffer just as much under an arrow cart as a karma train super zerg.
If the AC damage scaled damage based on the amount of people it hit – then you could call it anti-zerg (1 player hit = tiny damage, 50 players hit = max damage).

This change doesn’t discourage zerging at all – it merely discourages taking objectives by groups of any size.

This and the new contesting system has me close to quitting the game, honestly.

I was both wiped by superior arrow carts tonight, and wiped others, and I never once had any fun doing it.

Stop encouraging us not to PvP, Anet.

I wrote an example earlier of how weak AC’s were before the patch. After, they still can’t take down a person solely. I had a Ranger just standing under one just an hour ago while it was ganking our yak. Maybe got the Ranger to 50% HP. Now, I’m not fully traited in AC’s yet but, high condition damage. Thus, it’s not a big deal!!!!

I think other tiers are just too used to running glass and free night capping.

So many people say that defenders used to have a disadvantage before, I used to think the same but then I learned to play the game. As mentioned before a group of 30 could hold a keep against 100 people even before the patch. Before you needed a little bit of skill and some coordination to defend. Now you need arrowcarts and a defensive treb. They took away all the skill and coordination of defending.

Aberrant.6749:

How the kitten does overpowering an aoe siege that can take down 30+ people in a few seconds promote small scale stuff?

Our definition of “few seconds” obviously differs, but sure, i’ll bite.. In promoting siege weapons to do more damage, they’re effectively making it so smaller groups may defend a keep without needing to call in a zerg to counter the other servers zerg

We’re not upset they tried to do something to help the game. We just don’t like how they go about putting them in.

Valid point, I yield

We’re upset that they didn’t bother to test this before implementing it.

We both know you don’t know this for sure, and can never know unless they make some lengthy blog post about how they go about testing patches. And in fact, I’m inclined to believe they test EVERYTHING as opposed to nothing.

We’re upset that they do 50% nerfs and 80% buffs in a single patch (while claiming they don’t do large nerfs/buffs).

Can’t seem to find who or what you’re quoting here, but I’ll take your word for it. Even then, sometimes drastic changes are needed for different issues. So to rule out large changes altogether seems a bit immature

These types of things have been an ongoing issue. There REALLY needs to be a public test realm to help prevent this kitten from happening.

We actually agree on this, YAY!

As far as worst patch ever… tbh… I agree… I can’t think of any other patch that wrecked more in any part of the game before this one. Feel free to present a counter to this… but I can’t think of any…

Are we so quick to forget the infamous culling patch? I personally (and know of MANY more) didn’t even touch WvW til after they made culling settings an option. I mean, the game was playable..but most would argue way less so than now.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

KStudios.2850:

Hope not. I’m lovin’ this. The anti-zerg is here! I don’t know what everyone is complaining about, because you can’t karma train the towers I’ve worked so hard to upgrade anymore? I honestly haven’t been killed by one of the new carts yet. Did get pretty close with some clever use of tower steps as a choke point though.

If a karma train can’t take your tower then what chance does a guild special ops/havoc team have.
It ends up the only good way to take something is Player vs Door, because even 1 enemy player in a tower can keep a guild special ops/havoc team out.
Exactly what we don’t want.
The issue is that the arrow carts don’t care if you are part of a zerg or not – so small guild teams suffer just as much under an arrow cart as a karma train super zerg.
If the AC damage scaled damage based on the amount of people it hit – then you could call it anti-zerg (1 player hit = tiny damage, 50 players hit = max damage).

This change doesn’t discourage zerging at all – it merely discourages taking objectives by groups of any size.

Funny, our folks seem to be having little trouble. Just takes a little longer and actually requires strategic planning now. No more omnom-door-with-face. And I’m grateful for that.

2 of us took a tower last night while the main force was distracted in a big fight, so that’s where it leaves your small ninja crews out there taking towers, maybe if you spent less time complaining about AC and more time playing WvW you could capture some towers yourself. We had garrison inner down to 25% with 5 people too, but a big zerg came and squashed us and they didn’t use any AC to do it. The new WvW changes are for the better I’m loving the new patch and hating the QQ complaining blob on the forums.

LilMcGinley.3890:

PS: Not a rip on SoR, just the only server I’ve seen ANet Devs play on and ofc 50 people surround them at all times.

I take it you don’t play on a T1 server then.

this is madness! i’m fully PVT War/GD. 1or2 arrow cart suppose not to harm me.
i’m with mega zerg. we should PvD every tower/keep we want.

that’s…. make me lol

only thing i hate about AC buff is we need to refre-kitten evry 30mins

Granted you noobs that are defending arrowcart buff, I can understand you. You are noobs you will never able to use the arrowcarts for anything useful anyway.

It is when there is actual fight between respectable opponents it will simply get decided between the usage of arrowcarts.

guildwars, game title in itself is missleading. Should be called nolife-spvp-and-acwars2.

Wvwvw was the closest thing we came to GvG in guildwars, and now it is going to be player versus who cares.

morrolan.9608:

I take it you don’t play on a T1 server then.

Has it ever occured to anyone… That if T1 servers cant adapt to the new arrowcarts, they dont deserve to be in T1 and will inevitably drop?

Dawdler.8521:

morrolan.9608:

I take it you don’t play on a T1 server then.

Has it ever occured to anyone… That if T1 servers cant adapt to the new arrowcarts, they dont deserve to be in T1 and will inevitably drop?

Yes let tier 1 drop and let the people who desire stagnant and borring fighting step forward.

That will keep the game alive.

ps. it doesn’t.

fix the arrowcarts.

Honestly, I can imagine the pug zergs and people who run in these zergs having a huge issue with this. In most tiers, trying to coordinate a pug zerg is like trying to teach a blind man to read.

For those of us who run with our guilds, coordinate, and are much more tactical. This is a very much welcomed addition. Long time coming honestly. Now, it FORCES people to think and listen.

Commanders will have to become more than just “follow this blue thing, kill anything red.” They’ll have to actually command. Of course this is different depending on what tier you’re in.

I will admit though, the damage could be scaled down a bit. Or, increase in seige equipment durability. One arrow cart should not immediately counter 4 flame rams at a gate. Which brings me to another point, remove the ability for arrow carts to AoE down rams from inside the tower, behind the gate.

I like it personally. Good call Arena Net, and thank you.

Bllade.1029:

Honestly, I can imagine the pug zergs and people who run in these zergs having a huge issue with this. In most tiers, trying to coordinate a pug zerg is like trying to teach a blind man to read.

For those of us who run with our guilds, coordinate, and are much more tactical. This is a very much welcomed addition. Long time coming honestly. Now, it FORCES people to think and listen.

Commanders will have to become more than just “follow this blue thing, kill anything red.” They’ll have to actually command. Of course this is different depending on what tier you’re in.

I like it personally. Good call Arena Net, and thank you.

Yeah screw pugs, why are they allowed to play this game? They are way beneath us.

Also if your commander har trouble getting anything done before, he was a pretty bad commander. Now it’ll be even worse. Only two commands in the vocabulary:

- Avoid red circles!
- Build arrowcarts to make red circles!

Dawdler.8521:

morrolan.9608:

I take it you don’t play on a T1 server then.

Has it ever occured to anyone… That if T1 servers cant adapt to the new arrowcarts, they dont deserve to be in T1 and will inevitably drop?

This is irrelevant to my point.

took hills tonight with a group of maybe 20 on about 10 or so not huge numbers by any means…it did take 2 tries b4 we decided not to rush the bridge choke point inside inner and actually set up some siege to counter the 3 ac and ballista we did take it…Im using hills as example because well its got some very long choke points that an arrow cart is perfect for and if played right like the enemy did is hard to take with the rush in dumb zerg mentality it was rather easy once we changed our strategy to counter theirs…..like many others have already said get away from the dumb zerg mentality and start thinking of ways to make the enemy fight you on your terms not theirs…

TallDan.6350:

2 of us took a tower last night while the main force was distracted in a big fight, so that’s where it leaves your small ninja crews out there taking towers, maybe if you spent less time complaining about AC and more time playing WvW you could capture some towers yourself. We had garrison inner down to 25% with 5 people too, but a big zerg came and squashed us and they didn’t use any AC to do it. The new WvW changes are for the better I’m loving the new patch and hating the QQ complaining blob on the forums.

Again.
What do the changes of AC have to do with you being able to take a tower with 2 ppl? Nothing.
You could do this before.
And you can do this because your opponents are bad and don’t scout.

Seriously ppl why are you mixing everything?

Please stop theorycrafting around the baddies… well that mean realising that they are baddies, may be there lies the problem.

Kebab.4013:

Dawdler.8521:

morrolan.9608:

I take it you don’t play on a T1 server then.

Has it ever occured to anyone… That if T1 servers cant adapt to the new arrowcarts, they dont deserve to be in T1 and will inevitably drop?

Yes let tier 1 drop and let the people who desire stagnant and borring fighting step forward.

That will keep the game alive.

ps. it doesn’t.

fix the arrowcarts.

Being encouraged to use intelligence and tactical thinking is boring but standing in front of a gate pressing 1 in a big blob, then running into the lord room and pressing 1 then running to the next tower pressing 1 is fun.

Plz nrf arrw crtz

Mooodster.3470:

took hills tonight with a group of maybe 20 on about 10 or so not huge numbers by any means…it did take 2 tries b4 we decided not to rush the bridge choke point inside inner and actually set up some siege to counter the 3 ac and ballista we did take it…Im using hills as example because well its got some very long choke points that an arrow cart is perfect for and if played right like the enemy did is hard to take with the rush in dumb zerg mentality it was rather easy once we changed our strategy to counter theirs…..like many others have already said get away from the dumb zerg mentality and start thinking of ways to make the enemy fight you on your terms not theirs…

They must not have sieged up the lords room properly then. There are places you can shove ac’s in there where they can’t be hit and still fire at the choke point. You won vs. baddies. Grats.

id like them to reduce the range back to normal.

if someone builds 12 arrow carts at a gate then chances are nothings going to come ramming through that way anyway pre or post patch.

Bllade.1029:

Honestly, I can imagine the pug zergs and people who run in these zergs having a huge issue with this. In most tiers, trying to coordinate a pug zerg is like trying to teach a blind man to read.

For those of us who run with our guilds, coordinate, and are much more tactical. This is a very much welcomed addition. Long time coming honestly. Now, it FORCES people to think and listen.

This is the exact opposite.

You are facing baddies, that’s the point.

In a correcly fortified keep, I defend with my 10 peeps against your coordinate guild for hours. Hours.
And you can be 40-60 we don’t care. If we play correctly you just have no way to take the keep, ever.

Aberrant.6749:

Mooodster.3470:

took hills tonight with a group of maybe 20 on about 10 or so not huge numbers by any means…it did take 2 tries b4 we decided not to rush the bridge choke point inside inner and actually set up some siege to counter the 3 ac and ballista we did take it…Im using hills as example because well its got some very long choke points that an arrow cart is perfect for and if played right like the enemy did is hard to take with the rush in dumb zerg mentality it was rather easy once we changed our strategy to counter theirs…..like many others have already said get away from the dumb zerg mentality and start thinking of ways to make the enemy fight you on your terms not theirs…

They must not have sieged up the lords room properly then. There are places you can shove ac’s in there where they can’t be hit and still fire at the choke point. You won vs. baddies. Grats.

Exactly, because even before the patch you could defend hills indefinitely with 10 coordinated people. This only proves that there are a lot of people who did not know how to play the game before and apparently the still don’t know now.

Thyophelis.8035:

sostronk.8167:

After having put in around 12-14 hours in WvW since the patch and taking alot of towers and keeps that are well defended, theres really no problem here. It just takes some adjustments now and you need to think about what your doing before you do it. WvW has been designed to be easy mode for a long time. The arrowcarts force you to think tactically and to play smart. The reality is there are just alot of casuals who play this game and aren’t half as good at it as they think they are and since they have tunnel vision and the karma train mentality built into them they fail to adapt and get wiped. I hope Anets developments keep going the way they are. Im all for implementing tactics and skill to be a part of WvW and getting rid of this zerg mentality that people have become accustomed to.

Would you mind to share some more details? Which Map, what tower? what was your aproximate numbers, how many trebs did you use, how long did it take to get a tower? how many players were defending?

It certainly can be done, specially on the eternal battlegrounds. It s just a question if people want to stand around trebs, running for supplies all the time build ac to protect the exposed trebs etc. And in the end you re lucky if you get a decent fight in the tower.
When the most important skills become 1-2-3 from siege weapons and swiftness buffing the game is dead to me.

Thus far in Bls: Bay, Crag, Sunny, Briar
EB: SMC, QL, Durios

In every case there have been defenders and AC. Prior to this it wasn’t uncommon for defenders to just hang around and bail when the PvDoor was going on. Now there are greater numbers defending. Average number were probably around 70-80% of the attacking force give or take each situation.

What I would really like to see from my own server here is some work towards keeping these towers like QL, Durios, ANZ and Mendons by keeping a reasonable sized force with defenses there whilst the rest of the force splits off and proceeds with other attacks. We’ve tried this in the past but its difficult to keep this for a reasonable period of time and you often end up fighting off for long enough to get the tick. Particularly when 20 players could come in, drop rams and ignore the AC firing on them and take down the door. I have seen BG and SOR attempting these kinds of moves as well and I think its really important to get this kind of level of organization going for servers to be successful in the future. It has pretty much been a game of numbers and coverage but I really like what the AC buff has done and Im hoping these kind of changes continue to add more depth of strategy.

Bllade.1029:

Honestly, I can imagine the pug zergs and people who run in these zergs having a huge issue with this. In most tiers, trying to coordinate a pug zerg is like trying to teach a blind man to read.

For those of us who run with our guilds, coordinate, and are much more tactical. This is a very much welcomed addition. Long time coming honestly. Now, it FORCES people to think and listen.

this is how you defend a tower with 15 people, you don’t need arrow carts. Your just bad.

PredatoR.5247:

Bllade.1029:

Honestly, I can imagine the pug zergs and people who run in these zergs having a huge issue with this. In most tiers, trying to coordinate a pug zerg is like trying to teach a blind man to read.

For those of us who run with our guilds, coordinate, and are much more tactical. This is a very much welcomed addition. Long time coming honestly. Now, it FORCES people to think and listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSuQ3PIV80E

this is how you defend a tower with 15 people, you don’t need arrow carts. Your just bad.

Think about all of the coordination and tactics involved with this player vs player type of defense.

Now think about it with ONE superior ac and the current ac buff. It’s a huge strategic step back, not forward.

PredatoR.5247:

Bllade.1029:

Honestly, I can imagine the pug zergs and people who run in these zergs having a huge issue with this. In most tiers, trying to coordinate a pug zerg is like trying to teach a blind man to read.

For those of us who run with our guilds, coordinate, and are much more tactical. This is a very much welcomed addition. Long time coming honestly. Now, it FORCES people to think and listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSuQ3PIV80E

this is how you defend a tower with 15 people, you don’t need arrow carts. Your just bad.

Then GoM showed you how to defend a tower from agg and you ran back to an upper tier server, you missed that bit out of your video :p

Oh and thanks for joining a low population struggling server recruiting for three weeks and then leaving we really appreciated your support.

Psykoyul.9147:

Bllade.1029:

Honestly, I can imagine the pug zergs and people who run in these zergs having a huge issue with this. In most tiers, trying to coordinate a pug zerg is like trying to teach a blind man to read.

For those of us who run with our guilds, coordinate, and are much more tactical. This is a very much welcomed addition. Long time coming honestly. Now, it FORCES people to think and listen.

This is the exact opposite.

You are facing baddies, that’s the point.

In a correcly fortified keep, I defend with my 10 peeps against your coordinate guild for hours. Hours.
And you can be 40-60 we don’t care. If we play correctly you just have no way to take the keep, ever.

This, defending became so easy that I do it while eating, watching a movie or chattin with some friends. If everything is sieged up, it is 100% impossible to take a tower/keep.

I have siege bunker maxed, 3.3k armor 30k health, had protection from a guardian and tons of boons to keep me standing and I got melted in 3-4 seconds because of AC fire.

Everything defended by something with a brain is a pain to capture. Takes ages and is boring like hell. Even with a guild group. There is no reason anymore to come out and fight. WvW became something that is starting ressemble something a lot like PvE and I detest PvE….

Arrow cart was fine, it does not need any damage buff, and i don’t think it will address the issue of zerging meta, instead, it replace the current zerg meta with a worse one: lazy bunker meta.

pre-patch:

The successful defense of any given structures in wvw relies on the synergy of 3 things:
siege users, defenders on the wall, and ground troops.

You need sieges like arrow cart to provide fire support and limited deterrence.
You need the mobility and other useful profession-related skills of the defenders on the wall. (ex. provide healing+ shield to the siege users, plus addtional AoEs)
You need the ground fources to be ready to move out the make a push.

You need ( or needed now with the new patch) these 3 thing to work co-operatively for a successful defense.

You could not defend a keep with a bunch of eles or rangers standing on wall, they will just get torn apart by all the Necro marks.

You could not defend a keep with sieges alone, they are static, and have slower firing rate.

You could not defend a keep with ground troop alone, with all that AoEs half of them would probably be dead when they exit the gate.

I think the synergy of these three is what makes wvw fun for a lot of us. I remember when i was playing with my ranger, i love standing on the wall and use my under-power longbow attacking those invaders. I know a lvl 5 noob with a arrow cart can probably do better than me when it comes to doing damage, and it’s very risky to stand on the wall when there are 10 eles casting meteors shower at me, nevertheless, it gives the battle a certain ‘flavor’ that can not be replaced by manning on a arrow cart and mashing 1,2,3.

This patch is gonna change that, i think.

Anet has buffed up the damage of arrow carts to the point that all you need to do is to have 5 people bunker down in your precious little keeps and use arrow carts to do all the work for you.

Ground troops? nope, no need to have actual face-to-face zerg clash, no more commander urging the pve militia to ‘stack. buff-up, we are making a push’, they will probably be acting solely as the ’ cleaning-up crews’ from now on: finishing those downed enemies and collecting bags.

Defenders on the wall? no need, arrow carts kill the enemies before you even need to heal the lvl 5 noob that’s been using arrow arts. No profession related skills are required, just mashing 1,2,3.

I know some people would say, ’ it kills zerg !.’ It’s stop people from pvdoor’, ‘it give defender a chance to defend’

First, you don’t want to replace a bad meta with a worse meta. Yes, zerging is bad, it’s stale, but bunker down in tower and let the arrow carts replacing the zerg is even a worse idea. I don’t see mashing 1,2,3, is any better than zerg vs zerg.

As for the pvdoor issue or giving defender a fighting chance when they are out-manned, well, of all the options Anet can do they picked the worst and imbalance, one. They could have make the gate stronger, or they could have make those guards npcs somewhat useful (we have a wvw trait line that specifically design for dealing with NPC, i mean seriously? they don’t go down fast enough?), or how about redesign out-manned buff completely? or find a better way to balance out server population and time zone issues?

if buffing up arrow cart’s is Anet’s attempt to address the wvw issues, then i am truly disappointed. I thought you guys were much more innovative than this…

People still play this game because it’s the only game out there that has ‘decent’ RvR (and now Anet is ruining it), they won’t hesitate to quit when there’s a better game, i think it’s a good thing Camelot Unchained is getting kickstart funded.

Hasn’t anyone notice that this is a gold sink ? You need big amounts of golems and seige to attack quickly and for defenders, you build and maintain ACs every 30mins. Players are even building ACs in the field ! ACs bluff also means more players will die and more repair costs.

At the same time, EB JP chest’s 2 free blueprints is now limited to each account each day. For an account with 8 chars, this means your seige blueprints supply was nerfed by 700% !

On the PvE side, there has been a relentless release of new toys, dyes, skins in the Trading Post for gems since January. This means many players are trading gems with gold causing the trading ratio to skyrocket.

The final result is less gold in the game and high conversion rate to gems, which means more players will foot out real cash to buy gems for stuff in the TP. Smart move by Anet

Chris.4527:

Well we’re about to hit the 1,000 reply mark, lets hope by 2,000 we actually get ANet to reply.

nah they don’t care, people has been crying for server lags for months,or the current EU t1 crisis, do you see them doing anything to alleviate these issues?

i have faith in GW2’s pve team, or maybe spvp team to some degree, but i don’t have faith in the wvw team, not anymore.

if anything, they will probably find a even more lazier way to solve the issue with current meta.

Sol.8341:

At the same time, EB JP chest’s 2 free blueprints is now limited to each account each day. For an account with 8 chars, this means your seige blueprints supply was nerfed by 700% !

As a side note, this will also slow down legendary crafting for everyone, especially those who don’t have enough time to farm in PvE and do WvW at the same time.

Congratulation Anet, another 1/3 of the wvw population rage quit last night. How does that make you feel? Do you even play your own game?

TallDan.6350:

Kebab.4013:

Dawdler.8521:

morrolan.9608:

I take it you don’t play on a T1 server then.

Has it ever occured to anyone… That if T1 servers cant adapt to the new arrowcarts, they dont deserve to be in T1 and will inevitably drop?

Yes let tier 1 drop and let the people who desire stagnant and borring fighting step forward.

That will keep the game alive.

ps. it doesn’t.

fix the arrowcarts.

Being encouraged to use intelligence and tactical thinking is boring but standing in front of a gate pressing 1 in a big blob, then running into the lord room and pressing 1 then running to the next tower pressing 1 is fun.

Plz nrf arrw crtz

if you think zerging is just mashing 1 and running around, you are just a bad player and you are doing it wrong. i hope you are not a commander on your server, if you are i feel sorry for those militia you are leading.

just notice that you are from ET, lol no wonder….

Kript.3291:

Arrow cart was fine, it does not need any damage buff, and i don’t think it will address the issue of zerging meta, instead, it replace the current zerg meta with a worse one: lazy bunker meta.

pre-patch:

The successful defense of any given structures in wvw relies on the synergy of 3 things:
siege users, defenders on the wall, and ground troops.

You need sieges like arrow cart to provide fire support and limited deterrence.
You need the mobility and other useful profession-related skills of the defenders on the wall. (ex. provide healing+ shield to the siege users, plus addtional AoEs)
You need the ground fources to be ready to move out the make a push.

You need ( or needed now with the new patch) these 3 thing to work co-operatively for a successful defense.

You could not defend a keep with a bunch of eles or rangers standing on wall, they will just get torn apart by all the Necro marks.

You could not defend a keep with sieges alone, they are static, and have slower firing rate.

You could not defend a keep with ground troop alone, with all that AoEs half of them would probably be dead when they exist the gate.

I think the synergy of these three is what makes wvw fun for a lot of us. I remember when i was playing with my ranger, i love standing on the wall and use my under-power longbow attacking those invaders. I know a lvl 5 noob with a arrow cart can probably do better than me when it comes to doing damage, and it’s very risky to stand on the wall when there are 10 eles casting meteors shower at me, nevertheless, it gives the battle a certain ‘flavor’ that can not be replaced by manning on a arrow cart and mashing 1,2,3.

This patch is gonna change that, i think.

Anet has buffed up the damage of arrow carts to the point that all you need to do is to have 5 people bunker down in your precious little keeps and use arrow carts to do all the work for you.

Ground troops? nope, no need to have actual face-to-face zerg clash, no more commander urging the pve militia to ‘stack. buff-up, we are making a push’, they will probably be acting solely as the ’ cleaning-up crews’ from now on: finishing those downed enemies and collecting bags.

Defenders on the wall? no need, arrow carts kill the enemies before you even need to heal the lvl 5 noob that’s been using arrow arts. No profession related skills are required, just mashing 1,2,3.

I know some people would say, ’ it kills zerg !.’ It’s stop people from pvdoor’, ‘it give defender a chance to defend’

First, you don’t want to replace a bad meta with a worse meta. Yes, zerging is bad, it’s stale, but bunker down in tower and let the arrow carts replacing the zerg is even a worse idea. I don’t see mashing 1,2,3, is any better than zerg vs zerg.

As for the pvdoor issue or giving defender a fighting chance when they are out-manned, well, of all the options Anet can do they picked the worst and imbalance, one. They could have make the gate stronger, or they could have make those guards npcs somewhat useful (we have a wvw trait line that specifically design for dealing with NPC, i mean seriously? they don’t go down fast enough?), or how about redesign out-manned buff completely? or find a better way to balance out server population and time zone issues?

if buffing up arrow cart’s is Anet’s attempt to address the wvw issues, then i am truly disappointed. I thought you guys were much more innovative than this…

People still play this game because it’s the only game out there that has ‘decent’ RvR (and now Anet is ruining it), they won’t hesitate to quit when there’s a better game, i think it’s a good thing Camelot Unchained is getting kickstart funded.

This is a perfect post. Glad there are people like you who truly understand WvW.

PredatoR.5247:

Bllade.1029:

Honestly, I can imagine the pug zergs and people who run in these zergs having a huge issue with this. In most tiers, trying to coordinate a pug zerg is like trying to teach a blind man to read.

For those of us who run with our guilds, coordinate, and are much more tactical. This is a very much welcomed addition. Long time coming honestly. Now, it FORCES people to think and listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSuQ3PIV80E

this is how you defend a tower with 15 people, you don’t need arrow carts. Your just bad.

Great video, shows skill and coordination. That’s what it is supposed to be like. Personally I think 1 arrowcart would have been great just to keep the pressure up but you guys obviously did not need it.

This arrowcart buffs nerfs that kind of gameplay and you cannot call this defense mindless zerging. Siegegames involve no skill or and very little teamwork actual fighting does.

First… arrow carts got both nerfed BIG TIME (removal of the warrior stun) and buffed in DPS. This seems to be very well thought through, if you ask me.

One of the biggest problems in WXP-WvW is/was the zerg balls. When you know where the enemie zerg is, you can become very, very lazy, you only got to defend in one place!

So when you want a more exciting WvW experience, you need to have some tools against zergs, tools to make sure zergs split up.

Arrow carts are perfect for that, because they hit 50 targets at once! It is much more efficient now to break your zerg up in 5 parts, each attacking a target. That requires defenders on 5 different places, instead of just in one place.

People that complain about the ACs are probably just zergling that want to curl up in a 80-man group, take a map and move on to the next map.

Tallis.5607:

First… arrow carts got both nerfed BIG TIME (removal of the warrior stun) and buffed in DPS. This seems to be very well thought through, if you ask me.

One of the biggest problems in WXP-WvW is/was the zerg balls. When you know where the enemie zerg is, you can become very, very lazy, you only got to defend in one place!

So when you want a more exciting WvW experience, you need to have some tools against zergs, tools to make sure zergs split up.

Arrow carts are perfect for that, because they hit 50 targets at once! It is much more efficient now to break your zerg up in 5 parts, each attacking a target. That requires defenders on 5 different places, instead of just in one place.

People that complain about the ACs are probably just zergling that want to curl up in a 80-man group, take a map and move on to the next map.

oh i can do that too, people who support the changes are noobs, they love hiding in keep and mashing 123, that’s what a pve scrubs does best right?

and btw, if you can’t gather enough people to form up a zerg, that’s your problem, your server is suck and does not attract enough people or dedicated wvw guilds.
(or anet’s, because their poor design making people quit or inability to find a solution addressing server population and time zone imbalance).

don’t blame other server’s zerg when they wiped yours, and i am pretty sure tarnished coast use a lot of super size zerg ball (relatively) to beat the crap out of other servers. you guys became mad about zerg size because DB now has a bigger zerg than you

Tallis.5607:

People that complain about the ACs are probably just zergling that want to curl up in a 80-man group, take a map and move on to the next map.

Look at who you are talking about:
RG, VcY, Agg, Riot, MERC, VoTF, sIN, DsD, IRON

Hard to call these guilds zerglings that want to curl up in an 80 man group. (Some might have the numbers for that and still usually chose not to e.g. IRON)

Arrowcarts need a SERIOUS nerf now. They need to be reverted to the previous state asap because at its current state it is BEYOND broken. The poison addition itself is enough to break them, let alone a 80% damage increase !!!!

All this does is just limits the types of way you can siege certain structures, hills you have one option, trebs. Seriously way to promote anti-fun mechanics Anet.

AC needed a buff in first place? I don’t think so, tbh. They were weak take as single one, sure, but guess what, why are they so kitten cheap and able to reach lots of spots due to no los limitations?
Because instead of building 1 and pretend to stop everything, you can drop 5 or 10 or more and make them a death trap.
1 AC = annoyance, still useful cause pressures ppl to pop heals CD and such
5 AC = danger
10 AC = istant death

And this well before the patch.

The dmg boost of the perk alone, considered that adds so much power due to longer range/radius and new skill, would have been already a very powerful buff.

The buff, w/o any additional limitation to number of ACs or los requirement, cost or buff to ram/golem/catas, is just gamebreaking, if the defenders have half a brain.

the saddest thing is that i feel wvw devs won’t change it…we had lots of good discussion about how to solve the issues with current meta, a lot of constructive idea, and yet they came up with this…

wvw devs, are you going to hide inside your tower and just arrow carting ( post-patch version) down these constructive criticisms?

sostronk.8167:

After having put in around 12-14 hours in WvW since the patch and taking alot of towers and keeps that are well defended, theres really no problem here. It just takes some adjustments now and you need to think about what your doing before you do it. WvW has been designed to be easy mode for a long time. The arrowcarts force you to think tactically and to play smart. The reality is there are just alot of casuals who play this game and aren’t half as good at it as they think they are and since they have tunnel vision and the karma train mentality built into them they fail to adapt and get wiped. I hope Anets developments keep going the way they are. Im all for implementing tactics and skill to be a part of WvW and getting rid of this zerg mentality that people have become accustomed to.

And what’s wrong with WvW trying to be casual in that respect, guild wars 2 WvW was promoted to be a casual game we don’t need elitists trying to advocate a more tactical approach when that tactical approach is boring, i want to have fun fighting people accomplishing things not trebbing for hours on ends trying to take that fortified wall down, because you can’t catapult (ac) can’t ram (ac) can’t even get ballistas to take out the ac’s because ya know ac’s.

ParaldaWind.4523:

This and the new contesting system has me close to quitting the game, honestly.

I was both wiped by superior arrow carts tonight, and wiped others, and I never once had any fun doing it.

Stop encouraging us not to PvP, Anet.

EXACTLY.

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