Guild Wars 2

snowaugar.1823:

Kitten kitten mewl mewl zerging isn’t bad l2 counter the zerg -insert arrow cart joke here- its not hard when u l2 organize

It is. Some servers only run in zergs, so there’s no chance at all for fair fights. Usually they have bigger numbers than ours too and they just come with a 80-man zerg. How the kitten can you counter that, other than nerfing the zerg?

If you (multiple you) never saw T8, kitten with “10v10”. I’m in T8 and it’s normal to see 40+ zergs. At resets easily 60+

I can’t believe people even take this games WvW seriously, i quit awhile ago, after about 3 months in. Came back for the “WvW Patch” a bit ago which was the biggest joke of a patch in all my MMO history. Heard the devs talking like it was “game changing” when they added in the most useless things imaginable, and oh guess what, you have to grind to get them (such useless features added). I had around 15k kills, when most people i talked to had under 5, but a few had more than me. Granted this was a long time ago not too far after launch, so the kills seem small now but they weren’t then(I played A LOT). Sad all I see is the same old story, and what it comes down to is people who are horrible at pvp typically do the WvW in guildwars2. I’ve had some fun fights and some good sieges (which were mainly huge fights) but all those players seemed to have left. Now it is just zerg the territory and take things on the map (which is 100% useless btw) for nothing but points. Most of the scores you know INSTANTLY who is going to win, literally within 5 minutes of the match up. This game was incredibly fun at first, but with the commander icon, the free server transfers for the first 3-4 months, and continuous PVE only updates, this game is trash. They are just trying to funnel more money from horrible pve updates. What utter trash, they did a good job on pvp, then expanded literally 0% on it. Please explain to me who is playing GUILDWARS to do pve? In fact, it was the least rewarding pve i think i’ve ever played, i’ve played almost all the major MMO’s and this ones PVE i never saw so many people Akitten sitting at a camp leeching xp, and I can’t blame them it was so incredible boring and easy, you literally just run around spamming 1 the entire time to complete it.

Long story short I quit this game and it was a great decision, the dev’s made some decent mechanics but all seemed to have been fired or quit right after. Not A SINGLE update has been made to wvw, AT ALL, that has changed it in any way for the better. In fact it only gives people more incentive to NOT FIGHT and to zerg up and ‘capture’ stuff (which as stated before servers absolutely no purpose except to put points on the board, and as stated once again before, the points are almost instantly determined, 5 minutes in you know who’s gonna win the week). Guildwars 2 dev’s are some of the worst i’ve EVER seen in a game. The ONLY reason i’m even writing this or searching the forums AT ALL is because i still get email updates about ALL THE AWESOME SUPER TERRIFIC PVE THEY ADD!!

Oh man yeah a game named GUILD WARS where there is no point of a guild, and absolutely no wars going on, is indeed, the biggest video game oxymoron in history. Thanks for being published by some HORRID korean company NC soft. They are one of the worst MMO producers in history. Look at lineage 2, i get emails from NC soft trying to sell me $30 a piece armor that is just for looks, i mean jesus if they tried taking money from me any harder they’d get sued. PS this will prob get taken down, so kitten you arenanet, and a BIG kitten YOU to nc soft. Trash both of you.

Bedazzle.5746:

Jrunyon.3012:

I don’t understand what you want? It’s not the mechanics of WvW that promote zerging, it’s human nature. How do you propose Anet fix that?

I disagree. I do think human nature plays a part, but what will have more success:

A. A group of 5 tries to infiltrate a keep
B. A zerg of 75 tries to infiltrate a keep

The answer is obvious, so that does mean mechanics play a large part. Those mechanics force a zerg strategy. You cannot take an entire castle with 5 players.

floredon.6817:

There is a thing called solo WvW roaming. Google it.

lol…you’re not going to take a supply camp as a solo WvW roamer. You may take a Dolyak…but once you meet up with with the zerg or that group of 3-5…your roaming is over.

Farzo.8410:

Our guild, with a group of 5, built a siege and attacked a tower, we took the tower and held it against incoming zergs.

We also captured all the camps, and had really fun.

Yes…you held it against incoming zergs. You were fortunate that a zerg didn’t interrupt your attempt. That’s not typcially what I see though. I have done the same thing with guildies but it’s a rarity. Most times the zerg makes it to your position before the group can overtake the point. Camps are easy to take with a group of 5….I’ve done it many times.

Huh.. if they allowed you to have 75 players in your group, do you think that will do away with zergs…… sorry I don’t know what MMO’s you have played that incorporate WvW but it absolutely is human nature. If you have 75 in your group the opposition will come at you with 100+ .. its a simple game of numbers.. if the other teams have more then they will likely use that superiority to try and decimate you as quick as possible and take the spoils of combat.

Are you really serious about not being able to solo supply camps.. cos really, REALLY.. your doing something wrong.

Now imo WvW has so many flaws in it but eliminating zerg mentality will prove fruitless.. go grab more people and stack on your commander then have a blast.
harder than

Got Sunnyhill gate down with three people tonight in NA prime time with two 60-man zergs on the map. Just sayin’. Was working on doing the same thing at Crag, then our mighty Zerg arrived.

You can do pretty much anything you want in WvW if you learn to read maps and you pay attention. Most of my fun these days is seeing what I can get away with before the enemy spots it

I also killed all the guards at Bay wurm gate by myself to see if anyone came. Nobody did, lol.

Small groups are viable in smaller tiers. At the same time arrow carts make it even harder for small groups to do anything. Get used to taking camps unless you’re in a tier where it’s possible to ninja something.

But we’re in the same tier! Or we were … you moved from our Tier 2 to Tier 1 right?

Dhampyr.2104:

The utter lack of understanding of WvW in the QQ of this thread is amazing, and I’ll leave it at that.

Don’t like WvW? Go do some PvE stuff and have some fun. It’ll save us from having to see the QQ in map chat. You’re happy and having fun, we’re happy and having fun. Win all the way around.

So says a zergling from a zerg guild.

Personally I do not mind the zergs nearly as much as I mind that the game seems to have set the skill cap one notch above ‘dreadfully easy’ and seem content to leave it there.

Some commanders yea they are using skill and tactics, no question. Some of the siege placement guru’s, yea they are using tactics as well. The map PPT strategists, I appreciate their skill. So if you have all those on a map at the same time that is what 5-10 people using skill and strategy while the rest follow them around like sheep spamming their tagging skill of choice?

This game is designed to be played on auto pilot while you watch TV. I cannot think of a game that has as low skill cap as this one, granted I haven’t played hello kitty island adventure.

Niim.9260:

So says a zergling from a zerg guild.

Personally I do not mind the zergs nearly as much as I mind that the game seems to have set the skill cap one notch above ‘dreadfully easy’ and seem content to leave it there.

Some commanders yea they are using skill and tactics, no question. Some of the siege placement guru’s, yea they are using tactics as well. The map PPT strategists, I appreciate their skill. So if you have all those on a map at the same time that is what 5-10 people using skill and strategy while the rest follow them around like sheep spamming their tagging skill of choice?

This game is designed to be played on auto pilot while you watch TV. I cannot think of a game that has as low skill cap as this one, granted I haven’t played hello kitty island adventure.

Its so unlike DAOC…for example, once we had 7 in group and asked some lowbie cabalist to join. At MMG, our sorc casted perfect mezz on about 20 mids, and while we were preparing to pick and kill them 1 by 1 as usual, trigger happy cabalist casted his weak AOE dot on everyone and basically gave mids free purge.
That guy had his pvp career finished at that moment, except for pugs…here, noone even notices if you do dumbest of dumb things

World vs World doesn’t imply Zerg vs Zerg, just like Realm vs Realm didn’t imply it.

All that it simply describes is Worlds fighting against one another via PVP which can range from solo/smallman/zerg fights.

The problem with WvW in this game is really, Zerging is the most rewarding thing in the game, The most skill-less form of PvP is the the most rewarded form. That should never be the case in any PvP MMO.

There are zero disadvantages in this game for having more numbers, Zero….You can move as fast if not faster then smaller numbers, You have more opportunity at heals/buffs/rezzes then smaller numbers, and Since Smaller Numbers have less people, you can hit more % of their zerg with AOE vs them hitting you. I mean really..Zero disadvantage…

This is why the Tier system for WvW ranks is nothing more then a Population chart..Take the Tier i’m in, SoS/CD/SBI…SoS doesn’t win by actually being better… Not by a long shot…In fact they often lose the equal number battles they’re in because They’ve not actually had to get better to defeat people when outnumbered..Instead they win when they just frankly outnumber everyone..which is most of the time.

In DAOC if they were moving their zerg around like Albion did at the time on Merlin server, They would of been slow, and they would of be a prime target for 8mans running around wiping zergs. However you cannot do that in this game, A lot of that has to do with the dumbing down of the game to appease the casual audience..No Healers, Everyone Can Res, AOE caps, ect ect.. ..

And that is the problem World vs World has right now…While the maps are some what interesting..It actually fails pretty hard in its primary goal….I mean the thing it tried to copy DAOC is still vastly superior in almost every way, and a game like Warhammer online which is considered a vast failure by a lot of people is actually a better PvP game then GW2, in both the RVR type system, and hell.. the Scenario System (Most of the Scenario’s in WAR are better then pretty much all of the GW2 ones).

In fact I’d say the only thing GW2 has over WAR at this point would be its 3 Way PvP….but the sheer amount of negatives for everything else just way it in WAR’s favor.

Structured PvP sounds to be more suited to your needs. Rather than advocate for changing the epic nature of WvW to make it more like sPvP, you should just go play sPvP.

Xsorus.2507:

The problem with WvW in this game is really, Zerging is the most rewarding thing in the game, The most skill-less form of PvP is the the most rewarded form. That should never be the case in any PvP MMO.

There are zero disadvantages in this game for having more numbers, Zero….You can move as fast if not faster then smaller numbers, You have more opportunity at heals/buffs/rezzes then smaller numbers, and Since Smaller Numbers have less people, you can hit more % of their zerg with AOE vs them hitting you. I mean really..Zero disadvantage…

I just want to point out that this is the most concise description of the main problem with wvw.

Yes, large battles are fun, and I fully support large battles for those players that like that. But there are players that want to have small scale fights aswell.. outside of an spvp setting before people suggest this.

Every single mechanic in the game promotes and encourages large battles. Including the new reward chest for ranks. 1 player in my guild mainly rolls with the large guild group/or cmdr zerg, and is a rank well over 100. Myself on the other hand, am not even rank 30. I have twice as many yak slaps/camps taken. But they are rewarded with more gold/items etc than me, in their risk free/less skill pvp gamestyle.

Im happy that people want to have big fights.. .thats their choice, but for the people who dont want that (and spvp is not an option… its just nowhere near the same) some mechanics need to be introduced to make both types of playstyle attractive and viable.

Some of you need to take off your rose colored glasses with the DAOC crap. That game had plenty of major problems of its own, I would love to come in here and tell you that Shadowbane had the greatest large scale PvP ever because it was for buildings and cities that took months of peoples work to build and the classes in that game were far far more unique than in any other game. That would be a lie though, SB had SO many problems just like DAOC.
There is NO REASON 8 people should be able to wipe out 20 by using the hilarious CC that was available in that game.
Xsorus, you a little kitten over losing to SoS more skilled players? I hope you are on CD, we love farming you guys.

Xsorus.2507:

World vs World doesn’t imply Zerg vs Zerg, just like Realm vs Realm didn’t imply it.

All that it simply describes is Worlds fighting against one another via PVP which can range from solo/smallman/zerg fights.

The problem with WvW in this game is really, Zerging is the most rewarding thing in the game, The most skill-less form of PvP is the the most rewarded form. That should never be the case in any PvP MMO.

There are zero disadvantages in this game for having more numbers, Zero….You can move as fast if not faster then smaller numbers, You have more opportunity at heals/buffs/rezzes then smaller numbers, and Since Smaller Numbers have less people, you can hit more % of their zerg with AOE vs them hitting you. I mean really..Zero disadvantage…

Well said, this pretty much sums up everything.

displacedTitan.6897:

There is NO REASON 8 people should be able to wipe out 20 by using the hilarious CC that was available in that game.

I could almost never win 8 vs 20 equally skilled players…however, I plenty of times won 8 vs 50+ no skill zerglings

And perma stun lock here is way more hilarious than DAOC CC ever was…but I guess you’re fine with that, because to permastunlock someone you need…zerg

displacedTitan.6897:

Some of you need to take off your rose colored glasses with the DAOC crap. That game had plenty of major problems of its own, I would love to come in here and tell you that Shadowbane had the greatest large scale PvP ever because it was for buildings and cities that took months of peoples work to build and the classes in that game were far far more unique than in any other game. That would be a lie though, SB had SO many problems just like DAOC.
There is NO REASON 8 people should be able to wipe out 20 by using the hilarious CC that was available in that game.
Xsorus, you a little kitten over losing to SoS more skilled players? I hope you are on CD, we love farming you guys.

A. If you got wiped out by 8 people in DAOC with 20 people, It meant you played poorly, That’s really all it came down too… Now I know you’re going to say “They Chain CCed us” but since that lasted a very very small amount of time in DAOC (less then a year at the very start of the game, when there were virtually no 8 mans roaming back then, The 8v8 Meta didn’t really start till after SI) you really shouldn’t of been Chain CCed all that often if you played properly…Now with that said..What most likely happened was you were not panning at all, and got ball mezzed and instantly killed by an 8 man with PBAE, which is what happened 90% of the time when taking Larger numbers with Smaller numbers in that game…..You had a bunch of nubs stacking on one another following the zerg leader and not panning…Thus they died.

B. If you play badly, and like I stated above, that’s playing badly, You should most certainly lose to less people, The game shouldn’t reward you for being a mindless lemming of stupid following around a zerg leader and simply letting you crush better players. DAOC despite its flaws is VASTLY superior in every way to this game…EVERY SINGLE WAY… ..There is nothing done in this game that is better than DAOC..Do not fool yourself into thinking otherwise because this game rewards terrible players more than DAOC. Its not a better game for it….Its what makes this game worse.

C. I don’t play on CD, i play on SBI, and having small manned a large portion of this game, I can say without a day, a vast majority of the CD players I fight are better then the vast majority of SoS players…That’s not to say SoS doesn’t have good players, They do…But when you have more numbers you tend to not develop better PvP skills and instead rely on others to fight for you. This is why you get rolled over fairly hard during prime time when you’re not sitting in a keep. Its also why your side tends to avoid open field fights during Prime Time.

Nikola.3841:

Niim.9260:

So says a zergling from a zerg guild.

Personally I do not mind the zergs nearly as much as I mind that the game seems to have set the skill cap one notch above ‘dreadfully easy’ and seem content to leave it there.

Some commanders yea they are using skill and tactics, no question. Some of the siege placement guru’s, yea they are using tactics as well. The map PPT strategists, I appreciate their skill. So if you have all those on a map at the same time that is what 5-10 people using skill and strategy while the rest follow them around like sheep spamming their tagging skill of choice?

This game is designed to be played on auto pilot while you watch TV. I cannot think of a game that has as low skill cap as this one, granted I haven’t played hello kitty island adventure.

Its so unlike DAOC…for example, once we had 7 in group and asked some lowbie cabalist to join. At MMG, our sorc casted perfect mezz on about 20 mids, and while we were preparing to pick and kill them 1 by 1 as usual, trigger happy cabalist casted his weak AOE dot on everyone and basically gave mids free purge.
That guy had his pvp career finished at that moment, except for pugs…here, noone even notices if you do dumbest of dumb things

Not sure what the point you were trying to make Niim but you have hit on the reason things are the way they are in GW2.

Anet did not make WvW only for the serious hardcore people who like to fight PvP and destroy their opponents and loot their body and make them run halfway across the world naked like that one game – and if you aren’t good enough you are excluded. The entire philosophy is for the casual to be able to participate in WvW. They didn’t want someone to “have their pvp career finished” for a mistake or error.

And that’s why its good. Everyone can find something to do in it.

The larger problem is that the dead don’t stay dead.

What’ is this… some bad horror syfi… where the zombie apocalypse raises from the ashes to defeat every living thing?

Get rid of this mechanic.

At least then, small roaming groups could do drive by’s on the larger zerg, or kite the zerg, knowing that what they acutally DOWN… STAYS DOWN.

Srsly.

This thread is full of mewling kittens who should l2p

First time poster here, go easy on me!

After reading through the comments in this thread, I’ve come to a few conclusions. Namely, almost everyone outright complaining about “zerging” is someone who has been on the losing end of it more often than not. Obviously everyone is going to encounter a zerg sooner or later, and it’s not particularly fun to be outnumbered, beaten down, and staked in the face with virtually no means of defending yourself. Sure, a single person can put up a decent struggle, but as so many have already said, it’s a game of numbers, and the bigger number wins. It’s not fun. If I wanted the Starcraft Experience™, I’d go play Starcraft.

That being said, the zerg tactic isn’t inherently invalid. The Americans zerg-rushed Normandy Beach to take it from the Axis forces. Early medieval military strategies relied heavily on cavalry zerging infantry lines and forcing breaks within enemy ranks. Vietnamese soldiers applied a blend of zerg rushing and guerilla warfare to (regretfully) great effect.

The two major differences are that a) this is a game, and those are all real life examples, and b) our modern age, the “Age of Information”.

Let’s address point A first. From a strategic standpoint, for example, Americans had to zerg Normandy because of the Axis’ superior position. But they had to sacrifice an obscene number of lives in order to succeed. In reality, a defensible position can help a small number stave off a much larger assault by virtue of strategic placement of troops and weapons, and also because when someone dies in real life they can’t respawn. In GW2, holding a defensible position doesn’t matter jack-all when your opponents have hit points and heals and buffs in huge numbers. I’d propose increasing damage output for defenders significantly in direct proportion to the number of attackers engaging a defensible position (towers and keeps), with a reasonable cap. This would not apply to a castle because the castle is entirely capable of rallying and containing an equally large “zerg” force to defend, and often does by merit of its point value. This would also not apply anywhere outside of a tower and keep because that wouldn’t make any sense.

For point B, I would recommend removing the Commander icon from the minimap, thus forcing players to actively communicate with one another in order to better organize their assaults. In exchange, I’d suggest improving the group buffs granted by Commanders, providing incentive to staying “in formation” and maintaining a functioning “chain of command”, so to speak. In our modern age we have at least four very popular group chat programs at our disposal, as well as the /map and /team chat channels. Make players use that, instead of checking for a blue icon and running over to it like, well, a zergling.

What do you all think?

Ninja keeps while skill less zergs are busying smashing 1111111 at each other. GG

I’ve been on both the zerging side and the being zerged side.

What I stated is 100% true up above…Zerging is the only tactic in this game that doesn’t have a downside.

There is zero disadvantage to outnumbering your opponent…You’re not slower, you’re a bigger target…nothing..

Now with that said, people who think Anet is going to fix this are kidding themselves..

Instead of rightfully changing some mechanic to give zerging meta a disadvantage, Anet solution is to change the Ranking System completely.

Why are they doing this? To give everyone the opportunity to be the side that gets to Zerg….Its the little league trophy for everyone mentality….

Its also why this game is going to be dumped very quickly when a new PvP MMO comes out…..

I’ve said it before in another thread complaining about the same thing, OP. You entered a PvP game called WORLD vs WORLD, where siege weapons and teamwork is needed to get anything done. If you don’t like the TEAM aspect of a large number of people working together for a common goal (mostly referred to as a “zerg”), then click the crossed swords at the top of your screen, and quit complaining.

Niim.9260:

Dhampyr.2104:

The utter lack of understanding of WvW in the QQ of this thread is amazing, and I’ll leave it at that.

Don’t like WvW? Go do some PvE stuff and have some fun. It’ll save us from having to see the QQ in map chat. You’re happy and having fun, we’re happy and having fun. Win all the way around.

So says a zergling from a zerg guild.

Personally I do not mind the zergs nearly as much as I mind that the game seems to have set the skill cap one notch above ‘dreadfully easy’ and seem content to leave it there.

Some commanders yea they are using skill and tactics, no question. Some of the siege placement guru’s, yea they are using tactics as well. The map PPT strategists, I appreciate their skill. So if you have all those on a map at the same time that is what 5-10 people using skill and strategy while the rest follow them around like sheep spamming their tagging skill of choice?

This game is designed to be played on auto pilot while you watch TV. I cannot think of a game that has as low skill cap as this one, granted I haven’t played hello kitty island adventure.

Huh, have no clue who you are. We must have killed you a bunch or something, you’re kinda bitter.

Anyway, feel free to watch TV while we kill you some more – quit filling your loot bag with spikes though, it’d be nice if you’d drop some good loot.

Wvw is full of bad pve players who basically are too scared of dying in a 1v1 or small scale fights. That’s why they zerg, that’s the only way they could win or achieve something. I can’t believe they find zerging fun, sorry but i can’t believe a person could be so braindead to like that senseless aoe spamming. They will never fix this it’s just not possible. Lol it takes them months to fix even minor stupid bugs, imagine how long it’s going to take them to rework wvw totally. Stop dreaming (or stop playing wvw) and start zergingggggg.

McFribble.2349:

I’ve said it before in another thread complaining about the same thing, OP. You entered a PvP game called WORLD vs WORLD, where siege weapons and teamwork is needed to get anything done. If you don’t like the TEAM aspect of a large number of people working together for a common goal (mostly referred to as a “zerg”), then click the crossed swords at the top of your screen, and quit complaining.

World vs World doesn’t imply only Zerg PvP…. its foolish to think it does.

Its simply the Worlds (Servers) vs one another.

All forms of PvP are present in World vs World.

Solo/Smallman/Zerging.

Only one (zerging) has no disadvantage associated with it.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

Bedazzle.5746:

lol…you’re not going to take a supply camp as a solo WvW roamer.

This is news to me.

News to me too – I often solo supply camps as do a lot of other people.

Gkitten24:

Terra Dactyl.2047:

Bedazzle.5746:

lol…you’re not going to take a supply camp as a solo WvW roamer.

This is news to me.

News to me too – I often solo supply camps as do a lot of other people.

Same, I can take them fairly quickly on my ranger

heh. You should check one of RAM’s “zergs”. Last night we ate pretty much every challenge Mag and Kain threw at us, even when they were bigger. Bring your tankiest set and stay on the commander if you want to run with them. Oh and preferably a blast finisher.

McFribble.2349:

I’ve said it before in another thread complaining about the same thing, OP. You entered a PvP game called WORLD vs WORLD, where siege weapons and teamwork is needed to get anything done. If you don’t like the TEAM aspect of a large number of people working together for a common goal (mostly referred to as a “zerg”), then click the crossed swords at the top of your screen, and quit complaining.

Teamwork? Just bring more people, and laugh at other side trying to “teamwork” after you zergballed them

TL:DR

You are doing it wrong.

I can solo a supply camp and if undefended, I can solo a tower that doesn’t have increased level NPCs. I can take a keep with 5 players.

Its not hard you just need to be smart, know your surroundings and communicate well.

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

You are doing it wrong.

I can solo a supply camp and if undefended, I can solo a tower that doesn’t have increased level NPCs. I can take a keep with 5 players.

Its not hard you just need to be smart, know your surroundings and communicate well.

Thats not the point, taking undefended stuff is not hard

Actually it is. Drawing an enemy force away or splitting them helps my side. That is the whole point of small skirmish groups. It is to district and bait.

Assassin X.8573:

Actually it is. Drawing an enemy force away or splitting them helps my side. That is the whole point of small skirmish groups. It is to district and bait.

So I guess you play on server with not so smart opponents that don’t ven know what swords on keep mean?

Xsorus.2507:

McFribble.2349:

I’ve said it before in another thread complaining about the same thing, OP. You entered a PvP game called WORLD vs WORLD, where siege weapons and teamwork is needed to get anything done. If you don’t like the TEAM aspect of a large number of people working together for a common goal (mostly referred to as a “zerg”), then click the crossed swords at the top of your screen, and quit complaining.

World vs World doesn’t imply only Zerg PvP…. its foolish to think it does.

Its simply the Worlds (Servers) vs one another.

All forms of PvP are present in World vs World.

Solo/Smallman/Zerging.

Only one (zerging) has no disadvantage associated with it.

WvW DOES = Zerg fights. The problem is that you seem to think “zergs” are a bad thing. You can demonize the term all you want, but in the end of the day, zergs are nothing more than a large group of people working together towards a common goal. Sorry you hate teamwork in a large scale team-oriented game. There are other PvP options available to you, and I’d suggest you use them.

McFribble.2349:

WvW DOES = Zerg fights. The problem is that you seem to think “zergs” are a bad thing. You can demonize the term all you want, but in the end of the day, zergs are nothing more than a large group of people working together towards a common goal. Sorry you hate teamwork in a large scale team-oriented game. There are other PvP options available to you, and I’d suggest you use them.

Zergs <> teamwork…its pretty obvious you didn’t play much other MMOs

Nikola.3841:

McFribble.2349:

WvW DOES = Zerg fights. The problem is that you seem to think “zergs” are a bad thing. You can demonize the term all you want, but in the end of the day, zergs are nothing more than a large group of people working together towards a common goal. Sorry you hate teamwork in a large scale team-oriented game. There are other PvP options available to you, and I’d suggest you use them.

Zergs <> teamwork…its pretty obvious you didn’t play much other MMOs

Please explain how zergs =/= teamwork.

Zergs:
-Require a large number of players
-Roaming together
-Attacking together
-Healing/Assisting one another
-Taking the same objective

This is basically be the definition of teamwork. You sure have a skewed perception of the word.

To everyone who says it’s “all about numbers,” I advise you to check out the YouTube channel of RaggokOozo. Here’s his latest video, uploaded today and a perfect counterexample to “numbers are all that matters” thinking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djeVYpFIqos

In it, he and his team (5-7 players total) take on superior numbers and use coordination & tactics to win the fight. If you don’t want to watch the whole thing, then just skip to 8:50 when the music changes, and watch them take on 20-30 people. They don’t take the farm, but they don’t fold either – and I defy any one of you to say it wouldn’t be a pleasure to be on the smaller side of that fight.

Here’s another video of them cutting off reinforcements to Stonemist by keeping them (mostly) locked up in their garrison. It’s about 10 vs. 40:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfs-dTf1iGU

Notice how they take tactically sound positions, pick their fights, and coordinate with each other. This is what “learn to play” means: these guys know how to play, and while they’re far from invincible, they really kick some serious kittens. Oh, and they’re tier 7, which makes me glad that WvW is getting shuffled up a bit, because we just moved up to tier 6 and I look forward to playing against them some more.

McFribble.2349:

Nikola.3841:

McFribble.2349:

WvW DOES = Zerg fights. The problem is that you seem to think “zergs” are a bad thing. You can demonize the term all you want, but in the end of the day, zergs are nothing more than a large group of people working together towards a common goal. Sorry you hate teamwork in a large scale team-oriented game. There are other PvP options available to you, and I’d suggest you use them.

Zergs <> teamwork…its pretty obvious you didn’t play much other MMOs

Please explain how zergs =/= teamwork.

Zergs:
-Require a large number of players
-Roaming together
-Attacking together
-Healing/Assisting one another
-Taking the same objective

This is basically be the definition of teamwork. You sure have a skewed perception of the word.

Because if the other zerglings were just bots, you’d play the exact same way: rock the keyboard.
Here, I drew you a picture:
Angry mob != team work.
Army platoon = team work.

Sieges shouldnt cost anything. There should be some cooldown or limit on how many you can put them at once but they should be free. Nobody wants to put them since the changes that you will brake the wall with that ram are not high so everyone plays for safe and uses zerks.

Wouldnt it be better if people atleast tried? Tried to gather supply for that siege, tried to brake that wall.
Some guy could be building trebutchet somewhere and enemies would have a small mission to do, a small spice. Nobody do that, nobody just start building something to somewhere with no superior protection backing their intentions, maby some, but wouldnt it be better if everyone could, if everyone would do things like that.

And to even encourage that more you could add like 1worldexp for every siege hit you make on the wall, you might not brake the wall but atleast you didnt completely waste your time.

oh how much “life” that would bring to www, i can only imagine.

Bedazzle.5746:

Jrunyon.3012:

I don’t understand what you want? It’s not the mechanics of WvW that promote zerging, it’s human nature. How do you propose Anet fix that?

I disagree. I do think human nature plays a part, but what will have more success:

A. A group of 5 tries to infiltrate a keep
B. A zerg of 75 tries to infiltrate a keep

The answer is obvious, so that does mean mechanics play a large part. Those mechanics force a zerg strategy. You cannot take an entire castle with 5 players.

floredon.6817:

There is a thing called solo WvW roaming. Google it.

lol…you’re not going to take a supply camp as a solo WvW roamer. You may take a Dolyak…but once you meet up with with the zerg or that group of 3-5…your roaming is over.

Farzo.8410:

Our guild, with a group of 5, built a siege and attacked a tower, we took the tower and held it against incoming zergs.

We also captured all the camps, and had really fun.

Yes…you held it against incoming zergs. You were fortunate that a zerg didn’t interrupt your attempt. That’s not typcially what I see though. I have done the same thing with guildies but it’s a rarity. Most times the zerg makes it to your position before the group can overtake the point. Camps are easy to take with a group of 5….I’ve done it many times.

5 People on Arrow Carts = End of Zerg trying to take a keep… Those things hurt like ….. Now.

McFribble.2349:

Xsorus.2507:

McFribble.2349:

I’ve said it before in another thread complaining about the same thing, OP. You entered a PvP game called WORLD vs WORLD, where siege weapons and teamwork is needed to get anything done. If you don’t like the TEAM aspect of a large number of people working together for a common goal (mostly referred to as a “zerg”), then click the crossed swords at the top of your screen, and quit complaining.

World vs World doesn’t imply only Zerg PvP…. its foolish to think it does.

Its simply the Worlds (Servers) vs one another.

All forms of PvP are present in World vs World.

Solo/Smallman/Zerging.

Only one (zerging) has no disadvantage associated with it.

WvW DOES = Zerg fights. The problem is that you seem to think “zergs” are a bad thing. You can demonize the term all you want, but in the end of the day, zergs are nothing more than a large group of people working together towards a common goal. Sorry you hate teamwork in a large scale team-oriented game. There are other PvP options available to you, and I’d suggest you use them.

WvW doesn’t = only Zerg fights..I don’t know how much more I can explain that to you. You can have Zerg fights in WvW, but that’s not all that WvW is designed around, nor should it be. I also don’t think zergs are bad….I do think if you over reward the most skill-less of PvP you end up with what we currently have. Also getting a large group of people together isn’t hard…They not only give you a commander icon, they bloody give you aoe buffs and heals, and allow anyone to res..They also removed the ability for random groups to come back and completely wipe your zerg for not paying attention..You’d crap yourself if you tried to lead a zerg in DAOC..

DoctorFaust.7103:

To everyone who says it’s “all about numbers,” I advise you to check out the YouTube channel of RaggokOozo. Here’s his latest video, uploaded today and a perfect counterexample to “numbers are all that matters” thinking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djeVYpFIqos

In it, he and his team (5-7 players total) take on superior numbers and use coordination & tactics to win the fight. If you don’t want to watch the whole thing, then just skip to 8:50 when the music changes, and watch them take on 20-30 people. They don’t take the farm, but they don’t fold either – and I defy any one of you to say it wouldn’t be a pleasure to be on the smaller side of that fight.

Here’s another video of them cutting off reinforcements to Stonemist by keeping them (mostly) locked up in their garrison. It’s about 10 vs. 40:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfs-dTf1iGU

Notice how they take tactically sound positions, pick their fights, and coordinate with each other. This is what “learn to play” means: these guys know how to play, and while they’re far from invincible, they really kick some serious kittens. Oh, and they’re tier 7, which makes me glad that WvW is getting shuffled up a bit, because we just moved up to tier 6 and I look forward to playing against them some more.

A. They didn’t kill very many people in the fight you pointed out….In fact the few times they were able to kill people most of the zerg had went back to the supply camp. If the zerg had simply pushed over them they would of died.

B. That zerg is actually rather small..But they’re in Tier 7 so I can see why they might think thats impressive…Lets just say that zerg would be outmanned in Tier 4….

Xsorus.2507:

McFribble.2349:

Xsorus.2507:

McFribble.2349:

I’ve said it before in another thread complaining about the same thing, OP. You entered a PvP game called WORLD vs WORLD, where siege weapons and teamwork is needed to get anything done. If you don’t like the TEAM aspect of a large number of people working together for a common goal (mostly referred to as a “zerg”), then click the crossed swords at the top of your screen, and quit complaining.

World vs World doesn’t imply only Zerg PvP…. its foolish to think it does.

Its simply the Worlds (Servers) vs one another.

All forms of PvP are present in World vs World.

Solo/Smallman/Zerging.

Only one (zerging) has no disadvantage associated with it.

WvW DOES = Zerg fights. The problem is that you seem to think “zergs” are a bad thing. You can demonize the term all you want, but in the end of the day, zergs are nothing more than a large group of people working together towards a common goal. Sorry you hate teamwork in a large scale team-oriented game. There are other PvP options available to you, and I’d suggest you use them.

WvW doesn’t = only Zerg fights..I don’t know how much more I can explain that to you. You can have Zerg fights in WvW, but that’s not all that WvW is designed around, nor should it be. I also don’t think zergs are bad….I do think if you over reward the most skill-less of PvP you end up with what we currently have. Also getting a large group of people together isn’t hard…They not only give you a commander icon, they bloody give you aoe buffs and heals, and allow anyone to res..They also removed the ability for random groups to come back and completely wipe your zerg for not paying attention..You’d crap yourself if you tried to lead a zerg in DAOC..

Exactly, zerg fights are fine, and as many people have pointed out its human nature to group up. But Anet have included mechanics in the game to encourage zerging when it would have happened naturally, rather than including mechanics to encourage people to get out of their comfort zone and fight in smaller scale. Its backwards.

Things that are encouraging zerging

1) AOE limit
2) Shared Xp, kills, badges wXP, etc.
3) Supply carrying limits (almost fixed this with wXP rank in supply capacity…. then failed)
4) Siege build sites deactivation timers being so low
5) Commander tags
6) Similar to #2, equal rewards regardless of how many you are fighting and how many are fighting around you.

Niim.9260:

Dhampyr.2104:

The utter lack of understanding of WvW in the QQ of this thread is amazing, and I’ll leave it at that.

Don’t like WvW? Go do some PvE stuff and have some fun. It’ll save us from having to see the QQ in map chat. You’re happy and having fun, we’re happy and having fun. Win all the way around.

So says a zergling from a zerg guild.

Personally I do not mind the zergs nearly as much as I mind that the game seems to have set the skill cap one notch above ‘dreadfully easy’ and seem content to leave it there.

Some commanders yea they are using skill and tactics, no question. Some of the siege placement guru’s, yea they are using tactics as well. The map PPT strategists, I appreciate their skill. So if you have all those on a map at the same time that is what 5-10 people using skill and strategy while the rest follow them around like sheep spamming their tagging skill of choice?

This game is designed to be played on auto pilot while you watch TV. I cannot think of a game that has as low skill cap as this one, granted I haven’t played hello kitty island adventure.

You come off as one of those WvW people who take a camp and then sit on it so you can fight the people that try and take it back. Hey, I’m sorry that this game doesn’t have sPvP that allows you to use your pve gear. That’s an issue you need to take up with ANet.

As for the bolded part above, you do realize that much of the tactics that are used depend on numbers don’t you? One fine example is that siege you mention. What piece of siege equipment costs 10 supply to build, or even 15 for that matter (when the buff is up)?

WvW is about taking and holding control over the camps, towers, keeps and castle to accumulate more points than your competition. This means taking these points of interest from them and you use what is available to do this. Siege, tactics, and even numbers. Having superior numbers is a perfectly viable warfare tactic and the team with more numbers should not be punished. The team with fewer numbers need to take the initiative to recruit more people.

You can play the ‘semantics’ game all you want but if you are having ‘duels’ and some “zerg” wipes you out. To bad.

Please for kittens sake drop the crap about “human nature”. Only nature that’s at play here is the nature of online gamers and that’s to do what is effective and easy.

Siege, tactics, and even numbers. Having superior numbers is a perfectly viable warfare tactic and the team with more numbers should not be punished.

Sabotating and spying through inflitration are viable warfare tactics as well. Why, glitching and hacking are too. After all, there are no rules in war and love!

What’s so organized about a bunch of small groups running around with their own personal goals? When you think about it, playing that way has even more potential to be chaotic then zergs do. Commanders and zergs are learning. We’re seeing a lot more organized zergs these days and even some of the pugs are learning. New tactics such as might stacking and always staying moving as a unit in a fight are being discovered. For example, see what a RAM zerg can do to anything Maguuma can throw at it.

OP is right. WvW is ridiculous most of the time. I still try to have fun though doing things as a solo roamer. But I do believe the design of WvW encourages the formation of zergs to win over everything with numbers instead of skilled gameplay. I managed to get a video last night that sums up my feelings toward WvW.

(you need to watch in full screen to fully appreciate it)

Hot Boy.7138:

OP is right. WvW is ridiculous most of the time. I still try to have fun though doing things as a solo roamer. But I do believe the design of WvW encourages the formation of zergs to win over everything with numbers instead of skilled gameplay. I managed to get a video last night that sums up my feelings toward WvW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY5tJGkZWlw

(you need to watch in full screen to fully appreciate it)

Rofl, whats sad about that video, is if it was DAOC, they’d all get maybe 5 RPs for hitting you..

But since its this game, They probably all got 60 WXP a piece for hitting you once.