Guild Wars 2

Columba.9730:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Columba.9730:

It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.

Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.

I said I wasn’t going to reply anymore, but one thing bugs me, who is most of us and most thieves? I don’t think you can make such a claim, only Anet can.

Most players have thief Alts, lol. Secondly, there are many thieves who have posted that agree with me.

Agree to many, but most != many. lol just a small thing, but a big difference. That’s all I wanted to correct.

Okay then you are taking away any reliable swiftness durations mesmers get from their runes because (centaur/air) they have the worst mobility in game… Veggie pizza will look into.. but consumables have been nerfed not sure if it will be more or less help. In any case we should not have to rely on veggie pizzas to help with freaking condition removal… I know that mesmer condi removal is meant to be sub par compared to other classes because we are so overpowered (lol) other wise…. But the fact that mesmers have to go sooo heavily into traits to even come close thieves/eles condi removal (the classes with the lowest HP). Can we beat a p/d thief… I imagine so… But we have to build to do nothing but counter P/d thieves… Now if traited our focus can mitigate a lot of the initial damage but since the focus skills have a (somewhat) long cooldown the thief can reopen with the burst later in the fight (3 seconds) and all our initial damage mitigation is gone… I appreciate your input on going to counter this.. but it is not as much of a help as I would hope… Not dismissing it and I will try the veggie pizzas out for sure… But P/d thief is a huge weakness to mesmers.

jportell.2197:

Okay then you are taking away any reliable swiftness durations mesmers get from their runes because (centaur/air) they have the worst mobility in game… Veggie pizza will look into.. but consumables have been nerfed not sure if it will be more or less help. In any case we should not have to rely on veggie pizzas to help with freaking condition removal… I know that mesmer condi removal is meant to be sub par compared to other classes because we are so overpowered (lol) other wise…. But the fact that mesmers have to go sooo heavily into traits to even come close thieves/eles condi removal (the classes with the lowest HP). Can we beat a p/d thief… I imagine so… But we have to build to do nothing but counter P/d thieves… Now if traited our focus can mitigate a lot of the initial damage but since the focus skills have a (somewhat) long cooldown the thief can reopen with the burst later in the fight (3 seconds) and all our initial damage mitigation is gone… I appreciate your input on going to counter this.. but it is not as much of a help as I would hope… Not dismissing it and I will try the veggie pizzas out for sure… But P/d thief is a huge weakness to mesmers.

Blink + focus 4 which quite a few mesmers use in wvw provide the only speed buffs really necessary for them.

oZii.2864:

Columba.9730:

It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.

Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.

So your post here opens with the highly imbalance of stealth and then you make 4 bullet points about what you feel is a “highly imbalanced mechanic”.

Then you make a reference to thieves dps being nerfed in sPvP. Something just doesn’t hang together.

Also @xsorus

I just looked at the change to guard that you spoke of in the patch notes.

I don’t know alot about rangers but my guess they made that change rangers could kill siege on top of keeps with their pets using guard.

That change has more to do with killing siege solo than killing players. Which tells me they don’t want the objectives that nobody cares about(as you stated) to be destroyed by a lone ranger.

My 4 bullets recapitulated the line of argument from the thief apologists, not my beliefs. Secondly, since anet’s prioririty is Spvp, and they’ve nerfed thief dps in Spvp, that t elks me that thieves in WvWvW are likely imbalanced as well.

Thanks for those videos Xsorus. Please keep them coming. I wish there were more honest thieves out there(yea I realize the conflict in terms there haha).

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Thanks for those videos Xsorus. Please keep them coming. I wish there were more honest thieves out there(yea I realize the conflict in terms there haha).

Nice paradox. Yes, I love thieves like xsorus who have integrity and care about the health of the game.

Columba.9730:

My 4 bullets recapitulated the line of argument from the thief apologists, not my beliefs. Secondly, since anet’s prioririty is Spvp, and they’ve nerfed thief dps in Spvp, that t elks me that thieves in WvWvW are likely imbalanced as well.

Why would it tell you that at all? sPvP doesn’t equal WvW when was the last time you looked at the sPvP forums to get a clue? lol.

Ok so they nerfed thieves in sPvP but not as much in WvW (50% damage reduction to dancing dagger but still got a 10% damage increase to tactical strike and the daze on tactical strike wasn’t touched at all in WvW) and that tells you that thieves are likely imbalanced? I don’t even know what to say to that lol.

The problem i have now in WvW is small guilds running groups of thieves running round ganking single players then laughing because they think it makes them skillful, to the people who do this your pathetic, try playing a class where it requires skill.

Ok I’m skipping two pages of posts in an attempt to bring this thread back to topic before a moderator decides to close it for BEING off topic.

First off, this thread started out as critique of STEALTH and STEALTH ONLY. The biggest users of stealth in the game are unarguably thieves, although other classes do contribute to the problem in a less obvious and rage-inducing manner. As a Ranger, I know just how effective the Become Snow Leopard elite skill can be if you stealth, even though it’s only for 5 seconds, and then use Dash without a target to run away at a ridiculous speed. (Assuming that hasn’t been patched since I last used it.) It works wonders. However, the fact remains that it is my ONLY stealth skill as a ranger, and most classes aside from Mesmers and Thieves are lucky to have one stealth skill as well, and those with cooldowns long enough that they are impossible to spam, which is the reason Thieves are so heavily targeted in this thread. Ragers, you do not belong here, this is a discussion not a fight.

Furthermore, WvWvW only got brought into this discussion because of the culling issue that occurs only there, which allows stealth to be so heavily exploited. This argument is NOT about how WvWvW works, is played, should be played, ect. That conversation needs to be taken elsewhere, please and thank you.

Thirdly, the argument here about “learn to play” isn’t helping anyone. If you know how to play a class better than someone else, don’t point in their face and laugh saying “L2P, U SUCK”, show us why your way is better so we can judge for ourselves. As I said, stealth as a MECHANIC is the discussion point here, not pointing fingers at ANY one class, player, guild, or other group or individual, because doing so helps no one except the ego of the one pointing the finger. If you play an experienced Thief or other stealth using class as a main use your knowledge to help others understand your point of view instead of beating people over the head with your experience.

tl;dr/point of my above statements:

That said, could we please bring the discussion back to the matter at hand? Namely, the use of Stealth being exploited (or even being exploitable at all, whatever your stance might be), and classes/builds that are effective builds to counter it? Please note that by providing these builds and other discussions about Stealth from the point of view of one who supports it does far more for your argument than pointing fingers and yelling at one another. I would still like to see a good breakdown with more unbiased facts about how these builds work, and am intending to try most if not all of them myself to help this topic. Thanks

killimandros.5087:

Lets pick up the threads, as there are no big good guilds on EB theres no use discussing that.

I still do not see any, not one good reason to nbot make drastical changes to stealth to counter culling and imbalanced fights/abuse.

I have one good reason.

Culling is getting eliminated in the March patch.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/7169/Guild-Wars-2-What-Marchs-WvW-Patch-Will-Bring.html

You can all stop your whining now.

Ok, lets not be silly. WvW was based both spiritually and literally on DAOC. As a veteran player of DAOC the amount of similarities and things that transfer over is striking to the point many people got the feeling of playing a new and updated DAOC.

Also as to the point of stealth, you are going to have three possible outcomes. One is you keep your current stealth game, culling is fixed, and you are screwed if you are not in stealth. Two is that the importance of stealth is reduced, thieves get a little more defense, and thieves become an overall better and more versatile class. Three is the removal of culling literally breaks stealth burst builds because people can actually kill what they can see.

Jeahanne.5209:

As I said, stealth as a MECHANIC is the discussion point here, not pointing fingers at ANY one class, player, guild, or other group or individual, because doing so helps no one except the ego of the one pointing the finger. If you play an experienced Thief or other stealth using class as a main use your knowledge to help others understand your point of view instead of beating people over the head with your experience.

I don’t think the discussion is worthwhile without pointing fingers at specific classes. I can’t imagine thinking the stealth engineers get breaks the game. Rangers and Elementalists also have access to smoke fields (underwater) which allows them to stealth as well. You won’t really see people complaining about it as those stealths are unspammable and don’t provide much utility beside de-targeting and a few seconds of minimal incoming damage.

Stealth of this form does not break the game. The perma-stealth that heals and remove conditions and can be spammed indefinitely to reset the fight every couple of seconds is what breaks the game, and that is only achievable by thieves. I think people could agree that thieves should at least have some stealth ability, and maybe even better stealthing abilities than the other classes, but not to the current extent. Hence thieves are what needs to be looked at.

This has probably been said, but a nerf for stealth is a nerf to the entire thief class, without it they are nothing

Narcissus.1058:

This has probably been said, but a nerf for stealth is a nerf to the entire thief class, without it they are nothing

Wrong. Adjustments can always be made. Nerfing ranger bow dps didn’t destroy the class.

No, the primary mechanic of thief is stealth, the primary mechanic of ranger is not dps

Narcissus.1058:

No, the primary mechanic of thief is stealth, the primary mechanic of ranger is not dps

No it isn’t stealth. Stealth was meant to be a secondary attribute. All the chicken little behavior claiming that ANY change to stealth ruins the class is just melodrama. What is the primary mechanic of rangers? Lol.

Dude, I am not talking about any change, I am talking about a big enough change to satisfy everyone, which will screw over thieves

Narcissus.1058:

This has probably been said, but a nerf for stealth is a nerf to the entire thief class, without it they are nothing

This isn’t true. I run a bunker Thief, with my heal being my only stealth, and do just fine. My Mesmer now has more stealth than my Thief.

Columba.9730:

Narcissus.1058:

No, the primary mechanic of thief is stealth, the primary mechanic of ranger is not dps

No it isn’t stealth. Stealth was meant to be a secondary attribute. All the chicken little behavior claiming that ANY change to stealth ruins the class is just melodrama. What is the primary mechanic of rangers? Lol.

rangers have good acces to stability, protection , regeneration , invulnerability vs psihical damage
Double knockback (weapon skill +pet). They can CC a lot and counter CC.

thieves got – no direct acces to stability/protection/ invulnerability . poor acces to regeneration
They can stun you for 1.5 seconds ?(With elite)
They got stealth only

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.

I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people

But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin

No l2 read one of the ways you get World XP is by killing people. You don’t get points. (guess your gonna flip that part and say points on your WorldXP bar is what you meant lol)

You get abilities like do more damage to NPC, take less damage from siege, take less damage from NPC, do more damage from siege. Since you find fun in roaming around killing people none of this means jack to you cause your not about to man siege right? Thats zerging and xsorus doesn’t do zerging neither do other people that play WvW.

So you will be roaming around with a title that says Siegemaster, or NPC Killa and John the Mesmer who zergs it up daily will probably have the same title as you. So nobody is gonna know if you or John the Mesmer is the leet roamer!

The difference is John the Mesmer will be doing more damage on the the arrow cart killing people and having fun, probably be asked specifically to get on the arrow cart since he does more damage heck he might even feel wanted or needed more. You will be roaming around having fun with a title not doing more damage on a arrow cart. You can always make a video of you roaming though for views. I’ll go subscribe to your youtube now k.

Kills = points rofl. That was a good one made me chuckle. Comprehension skills are in full display in this thread.

Rofl, You seriously have no clue what I meant by points do you?

Wow…just Wow..

Realm Rank system = DAOC
Realm Points = What you got for killing players in DAOC
Realm abilities = What you spent points on

The World XP you’re talking about, That’s Realm Points in this game.

Bloody hell man….

Before you post, At least know what you’re talking about.

edit

Also you don’t know all the abilities that are coming with the Realm Rank system. Though a pretty title would be nice rofl.

oZii.2864:

Columba.9730:

It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.

Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.

So your post here opens with the highly imbalance of stealth and then you make 4 bullet points about what you feel is a “highly imbalanced mechanic”.

Then you make a reference to thieves dps being nerfed in sPvP. Something just doesn’t hang together.

Also @xsorus

I just looked at the change to guard that you spoke of in the patch notes.

I don’t know alot about rangers but my guess they made that change because rangers could kill siege on top of keeps with their pets using guard.

That change has more to do with killing siege solo than killing players. Which tells me they don’t want the objectives that nobody cares about(as you stated) to be destroyed by a lone ranger.

It wasn’t nerfed for that reason, It was nerfed for an entirely different reason (If Mesmer was dead on a keep wall, you could send your pet in and pop search and rescue and he’d res the mesmer)

Rayya.2591:

Columba.9730:

Narcissus.1058:

No, the primary mechanic of thief is stealth, the primary mechanic of ranger is not dps

No it isn’t stealth. Stealth was meant to be a secondary attribute. All the chicken little behavior claiming that ANY change to stealth ruins the class is just melodrama. What is the primary mechanic of rangers? Lol.

rangers have good acces to stability, protection , regeneration , invulnerability vs psihical damage
Double knockback (weapon skill +pet). They can CC a lot and counter CC.

thieves got – no direct acces to stability/protection/ invulnerability . poor acces to regeneration
They can stun you for 1.5 seconds ?(With elite)
They got stealth only

Thieves can’t get protection/invuln/stability (except from Mesmer’s) however poor access to regeneration? ehh no….

My thief can maintain almost Perma Regen on himself, we get 5 Seconds of Regen every time we stealth + multiple talents that give Regen.

The Ranger Health Regens (Not the actual Regen Boon) will heal for 300 combine with 1200 Healing Power

My Stealth Health Regen (again not the boon) Heals for 400 with 800 Healing Power….

Everytime I stealth, I’m getting that + 5 seconds of the Regen boon, right now with 800 HP that’s 600HP Per second while in Stealth.

Heinel.6548:

Jeahanne.5209:

As I said, stealth as a MECHANIC is the discussion point here, not pointing fingers at ANY one class, player, guild, or other group or individual, because doing so helps no one except the ego of the one pointing the finger. If you play an experienced Thief or other stealth using class as a main use your knowledge to help others understand your point of view instead of beating people over the head with your experience.

I don’t think the discussion is worthwhile without pointing fingers at specific classes. I can’t imagine thinking the stealth engineers get breaks the game. Rangers and Elementalists also have access to smoke fields (underwater) which allows them to stealth as well. You won’t really see people complaining about it as those stealths are unspammable and don’t provide much utility beside de-targeting and a few seconds of minimal incoming damage.

Stealth of this form does not break the game. The perma-stealth that heals and remove conditions and can be spammed indefinitely to reset the fight every couple of seconds is what breaks the game, and that is only achievable by thieves. I think people could agree that thieves should at least have some stealth ability, and maybe even better stealthing abilities than the other classes, but not to the current extent. Hence thieves are what needs to be looked at.

I agree with you. That comment was aimed more at the pointless raging caused by people angry about “bad players”, ect. Sorry for the confusion.

I don’t think many people realize how Anet’s class system works.

If you think it’s about balance for each and every individual area, you are wrong. Each class has a strong area, and a weak area.

Thieves perform exceptionally well in 1v1 combat. Make a new character, click on thief profession. Now read the description

“They’re deadly in one-on-one combat”

Now if any of you played thief extensively(not just wvw), you will know that

A) They are powerful 1v1ist and even powerful in 1v2/3
B) They are exceptionally weak in ZergvZerg compared to pretty much every other class
C) They are exceptionally weak in PvE

^This, is the whole design between Anet’s balancing. It is NOT a like Call of Duty where everything needs to be on par. This is the whole point of professions and classes. They perform DIFFERENT abilities, and hence have DIFFERENT strengths, which is why people say nerfing stealth will destroy the thief. If you make their ability to 1v1 on par with every other class, then they are every other class minus the fact that they completely suck in PvE and zergvzerg. If all classes were even on the 1v1 front, why roll a thief? When you can roll a ele? I mean, every class is par 1v1, except eles perform better in zvz, perform better in dungeons, perform better as support. This is the purpose behind roles. Thieves are duelists, 1v1ers and solo roamers, hard to catch, sneaky and elusive, and thus pay by being weak in zergvzerg, and PvE.

If you run a necro and run into a thief in wvw with nobody around, you’re fighting an uphill battle in which if you both have equal skill and luck, he will win, but in a zerg fight, you will beat the living crap out of the enemy zerg, compared to that thief, who you just ran into, melting at the sight of AoE spam, or if he runs tanky, desperately trying to squeeze out those 1K clusterbombs and dagger storms while you run around in 50K HP plague form.

I think a lot of posters should review what professions and classes are and the roles they play in this game. This is not CoD, this is not BF3. Classes should have the advantage in the role that they were designed for. If you are suggesting thieves be nerfed in 1v1s to be brought on par with every other class, then I better be seeing guardians/necro/ele/hammer warrior/confusion mesmer be brought to the same level as every other class in zerg v zerg. Then I want to see warrior be drastically nerfed in PvE to be brought on par with the other classes, which would all need balancing changes in order to be on par. Hell, lets just make a new game.

Rayya.2591:

Columba.9730:

Narcissus.1058:

No, the primary mechanic of thief is stealth, the primary mechanic of ranger is not dps

No it isn’t stealth. Stealth was meant to be a secondary attribute. All the chicken little behavior claiming that ANY change to stealth ruins the class is just melodrama. What is the primary mechanic of rangers? Lol.

rangers have good acces to stability, protection , regeneration , invulnerability vs psihical damage
Double knockback (weapon skill +pet). They can CC a lot and counter CC.

thieves got – no direct acces to stability/protection/ invulnerability . poor acces to regeneration
They can stun you for 1.5 seconds ?(With elite)
They got stealth only

no. they get massive dps, the best mobility, lol.

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t think many people realize how Anet’s class system works.

If you think it’s about balance for each and every individual area, you are wrong. Each class has a strong area, and a weak area.

Thieves perform exceptionally well in 1v1 combat. Make a new character, click on thief profession. Now read the description

“They’re deadly in one-on-one combat”

Now if any of you played thief extensively(not just wvw), you will know that

A) They are powerful 1v1ist and even powerful in 1v2/3
B) They are exceptionally weak in ZergvZerg compared to pretty much every other class
C) They are exceptionally weak in PvE

^This, is the whole design between Anet’s balancing. It is NOT a like Call of Duty where everything needs to be on par. This is the whole point of professions and classes. They perform DIFFERENT abilities, and hence have DIFFERENT strengths, which is why people say nerfing stealth will destroy the thief. If you make their ability to 1v1 on par with every other class, then they are every other class minus the fact that they completely suck in PvE and zergvzerg. If all classes were even on the 1v1 front, why roll a thief? When you can roll a ele? I mean, every class is par 1v1, except eles perform better in zvz, perform better in dungeons, perform better as support. This is the purpose behind roles. Thieves are duelists, 1v1ers and solo roamers, hard to catch, sneaky and elusive, and thus pay by being weak in zergvzerg, and PvE.

If you run a necro and run into a thief in wvw with nobody around, you’re fighting an uphill battle in which if you both have equal skill and luck, he will win, but in a zerg fight, you will beat the living crap out of the enemy zerg, compared to that thief, who you just ran into, melting at the sight of AoE spam, or if he runs tanky, desperately trying to squeeze out those 1K clusterbombs and dagger storms while you run around in 50K HP plague form.

I think a lot of posters should review what professions and classes are and the roles they play in this game. This is not CoD, this is not BF3. Classes should have the advantage in the role that they were designed for.

This is all fun and games as long as every single class gets a niche where they can excel. And I mean a viable niche which is often demanded. Like a WvW/sPvP roamer for thieves, sPvP point guard for elems and guardians or PvE dungeon steamrollers for warriors. If thieves were designed to wtfpwn people in small skirmishes in PvP, what was is the design principle behind engineers or rangers for example?

Specific class roles can be fun if it works well for everyone (an example of Team Fortress 2 comes to mind). But current class “balance” in GW2 is not good and the thief issue discussion is part of the debate concerning it.

My main is an engineer becouse I liked the concept of the class. But atm it serves me as just that. A “main” which waits for better times. Meanwhile I use my warrior to run dungeons, I use my guardian to farm PvE and I am leveling more classes, cant yet decide which one will be my pick for WvW but it will be either thief for stomping “noobs” or mesmer for group utility. So far I submit to this flawed design but it does not change the fact that it is flawed.

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t think many people realize how Anet’s class system works.

If you think it’s about balance for each and every individual area, you are wrong. Each class has a strong area, and a weak area.

Thieves perform exceptionally well in 1v1 combat. Make a new character, click on thief profession. Now read the description

“They’re deadly in one-on-one combat”

Now if any of you played thief extensively(not just wvw), you will know that

A) They are powerful 1v1ist and even powerful in 1v2/3
B) They are exceptionally weak in ZergvZerg compared to pretty much every other class
C) They are exceptionally weak in PvE

^This, is the whole design between Anet’s balancing. It is NOT a like Call of Duty where everything needs to be on par. This is the whole point of professions and classes. They perform DIFFERENT abilities, and hence have DIFFERENT strengths, which is why people say nerfing stealth will destroy the thief. If you make their ability to 1v1 on par with every other class, then they are every other class minus the fact that they completely suck in PvE and zergvzerg. If all classes were even on the 1v1 front, why roll a thief? When you can roll a ele? I mean, every class is par 1v1, except eles perform better in zvz, perform better in dungeons, perform better as support. This is the purpose behind roles. Thieves are duelists, 1v1ers and solo roamers, hard to catch, sneaky and elusive, and thus pay by being weak in zergvzerg, and PvE.

If you run a necro and run into a thief in wvw with nobody around, you’re fighting an uphill battle in which if you both have equal skill and luck, he will win, but in a zerg fight, you will beat the living crap out of the enemy zerg, compared to that thief, who you just ran into, melting at the sight of AoE spam, or if he runs tanky, desperately trying to squeeze out those 1K clusterbombs and dagger storms while you run around in 50K HP plague form.

I think a lot of posters should review what professions and classes are and the roles they play in this game. This is not CoD, this is not BF3. Classes should have the advantage in the role that they were designed for. If you are suggesting thieves be nerfed in 1v1s to be brought on par with every other class, then I better be seeing guardians/necro/ele/hammer warrior/confusion mesmer be brought to the same level as every other class in zerg v zerg. Then I want to see warrior be drastically nerfed in PvE to be brought on par with the other classes, which would all need balancing changes in order to be on par. Hell, lets just make a new game.

Certain specs of thieves are weak in Zerg Fighting..

Condition Spec Thieves are not…

I can spread Minute Long Poison and 30 second Long Weakness Around like its going out of style.

I can Apply Multiple Bleeds across a large area with Daggerstorm + Caltrops.

In fact when I’ve come across Stand Off Zerg vs Zerg fights, I’m usually the first person to rush in because I know I can easily break the line in a fight..and take advantage of the Zerg Mentality.

Now you’re probably asking yourself why would breaking the line be so important?

Because if you force large numbers of people to turn and move back (and they will cause they dont’ want to stand in bleeds and poison fields) you usually end up causing them to get run over.

Cause you don’t wanna be the side retreating in a Zerg Fight, cause that’s the side who usually ends up dying.

Which ever side ends up pushing is usually the one that lives, Because they surround people, Other people run, and flee leaving friends behind which causes even more Deaths.

That’s not to say you can’t do that with other classes…but a Thief is able to do it just as easily as anyone else.

PVE I won’t answer, cause I don’t really PVE on my Thief.

Awe.1096:

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t think many people realize how Anet’s class system works.

If you think it’s about balance for each and every individual area, you are wrong. Each class has a strong area, and a weak area.

Thieves perform exceptionally well in 1v1 combat. Make a new character, click on thief profession. Now read the description

“They’re deadly in one-on-one combat”

Now if any of you played thief extensively(not just wvw), you will know that

A) They are powerful 1v1ist and even powerful in 1v2/3
B) They are exceptionally weak in ZergvZerg compared to pretty much every other class
C) They are exceptionally weak in PvE

^This, is the whole design between Anet’s balancing. It is NOT a like Call of Duty where everything needs to be on par. This is the whole point of professions and classes. They perform DIFFERENT abilities, and hence have DIFFERENT strengths, which is why people say nerfing stealth will destroy the thief. If you make their ability to 1v1 on par with every other class, then they are every other class minus the fact that they completely suck in PvE and zergvzerg. If all classes were even on the 1v1 front, why roll a thief? When you can roll a ele? I mean, every class is par 1v1, except eles perform better in zvz, perform better in dungeons, perform better as support. This is the purpose behind roles. Thieves are duelists, 1v1ers and solo roamers, hard to catch, sneaky and elusive, and thus pay by being weak in zergvzerg, and PvE.

If you run a necro and run into a thief in wvw with nobody around, you’re fighting an uphill battle in which if you both have equal skill and luck, he will win, but in a zerg fight, you will beat the living crap out of the enemy zerg, compared to that thief, who you just ran into, melting at the sight of AoE spam, or if he runs tanky, desperately trying to squeeze out those 1K clusterbombs and dagger storms while you run around in 50K HP plague form.

I think a lot of posters should review what professions and classes are and the roles they play in this game. This is not CoD, this is not BF3. Classes should have the advantage in the role that they were designed for.

This is all fun and games as long as every single class gets a niche where they can excel. And I mean a viable niche which is often demanded. Like a WvW/sPvP roamer for thieves, sPvP point guard for elems and guardians or PvE dungeon steamrollers for warriors. If thieves were designed to wtfpwn people in small skirmishes in PvP, what was is the design principle behind engineers or rangers for example?

Specific class roles can be fun if it works well for everyone (an example of Team Fortress 2 comes to mind). But current class “balance” in GW2 is not good and the thief issue discussion is part of the debate concerning it.

My main is an engineer becouse I liked the concept of the class. But atm it serves me as just that. A “main” which waits for better times. Meanwhile I use my warrior to run dungeons, I use my guardian to farm PvE and I am leveling more classes, cant yet decide which one will be my pick for WvW but it will be either thief for stomping “noobs” or mesmer for group utility. So far I submit to this flawed design but it does not change the fact that it is flawed.

the game isn’t really designed like the way he’s suggesting, Its an excuse used in every game that’s had stealthers

“Well, Such and Such stealther is meant to be amazing in 1v1”

Completely ignoring that my Stealth can do 1vsX and do much better then other classes as well

Awe.1096:

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t think many people realize how Anet’s class system works.

If you think it’s about balance for each and every individual area, you are wrong. Each class has a strong area, and a weak area.

Thieves perform exceptionally well in 1v1 combat. Make a new character, click on thief profession. Now read the description

“They’re deadly in one-on-one combat”

Now if any of you played thief extensively(not just wvw), you will know that

A) They are powerful 1v1ist and even powerful in 1v2/3
B) They are exceptionally weak in ZergvZerg compared to pretty much every other class
C) They are exceptionally weak in PvE

^This, is the whole design between Anet’s balancing. It is NOT a like Call of Duty where everything needs to be on par. This is the whole point of professions and classes. They perform DIFFERENT abilities, and hence have DIFFERENT strengths, which is why people say nerfing stealth will destroy the thief. If you make their ability to 1v1 on par with every other class, then they are every other class minus the fact that they completely suck in PvE and zergvzerg. If all classes were even on the 1v1 front, why roll a thief? When you can roll a ele? I mean, every class is par 1v1, except eles perform better in zvz, perform better in dungeons, perform better as support. This is the purpose behind roles. Thieves are duelists, 1v1ers and solo roamers, hard to catch, sneaky and elusive, and thus pay by being weak in zergvzerg, and PvE.

If you run a necro and run into a thief in wvw with nobody around, you’re fighting an uphill battle in which if you both have equal skill and luck, he will win, but in a zerg fight, you will beat the living crap out of the enemy zerg, compared to that thief, who you just ran into, melting at the sight of AoE spam, or if he runs tanky, desperately trying to squeeze out those 1K clusterbombs and dagger storms while you run around in 50K HP plague form.

I think a lot of posters should review what professions and classes are and the roles they play in this game. This is not CoD, this is not BF3. Classes should have the advantage in the role that they were designed for.

This is all fun and games as long as every single class gets a niche where they can excel. And I mean a viable niche which is often demanded. Like a WvW/sPvP roamer for thieves, sPvP point guard for elems and guardians or PvE dungeon steamrollers for warriors. If thieves were designed to wtfpwn people in small skirmishes in PvP, what was is the design principle behind engineers or rangers for example?

Specific class roles can be fun if it works well for everyone (an example of Team Fortress 2 comes to mind). But current class “balance” in GW2 is not good and the thief issue discussion is part of the debate concerning it.

My main is an engineer becouse I liked the concept of the class. But atm it serves me as just that. A “main” which waits for better times. Meanwhile I use my warrior to run dungeons, I use my guardian to farm PvE and I am leveling more classes, cant yet decide which one will be my pick for WvW but it will be either thief for stomping “noobs” or mesmer for group utility. So far I submit to this flawed design but it does not change the fact that it is flawed.

The problem here is that Rangers and Engineers are exceptionally weak overall and the design behind it fails to accomplish what the classes are designed for.

Take in, for example, ranger. How many ranged rangers give you trouble? I mean, speaking from personal experience of 700+ hours in wvw, a rifle warrior gives me more trouble. But melee rangers, they excel, moreso than ranged rangers. There’s a big hypocrisy in that melee rangers are better than ranged rangers. This is a class that should have been high damage, far range that would excel at defending keeps, towers, or hanging at the back of a small group. It fails to accomplish that.

And to be honest, I don’t even know the purpose of engineer. They should have been able to repair siege, gates, walls, hold more supply, and have tons of CC.

Xsorus.2507:

Awe.1096:

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t think many people realize how Anet’s class system works.

If you think it’s about balance for each and every individual area, you are wrong. Each class has a strong area, and a weak area.

Thieves perform exceptionally well in 1v1 combat. Make a new character, click on thief profession. Now read the description

“They’re deadly in one-on-one combat”

Now if any of you played thief extensively(not just wvw), you will know that

A) They are powerful 1v1ist and even powerful in 1v2/3
B) They are exceptionally weak in ZergvZerg compared to pretty much every other class
C) They are exceptionally weak in PvE

^This, is the whole design between Anet’s balancing. It is NOT a like Call of Duty where everything needs to be on par. This is the whole point of professions and classes. They perform DIFFERENT abilities, and hence have DIFFERENT strengths, which is why people say nerfing stealth will destroy the thief. If you make their ability to 1v1 on par with every other class, then they are every other class minus the fact that they completely suck in PvE and zergvzerg. If all classes were even on the 1v1 front, why roll a thief? When you can roll a ele? I mean, every class is par 1v1, except eles perform better in zvz, perform better in dungeons, perform better as support. This is the purpose behind roles. Thieves are duelists, 1v1ers and solo roamers, hard to catch, sneaky and elusive, and thus pay by being weak in zergvzerg, and PvE.

If you run a necro and run into a thief in wvw with nobody around, you’re fighting an uphill battle in which if you both have equal skill and luck, he will win, but in a zerg fight, you will beat the living crap out of the enemy zerg, compared to that thief, who you just ran into, melting at the sight of AoE spam, or if he runs tanky, desperately trying to squeeze out those 1K clusterbombs and dagger storms while you run around in 50K HP plague form.

I think a lot of posters should review what professions and classes are and the roles they play in this game. This is not CoD, this is not BF3. Classes should have the advantage in the role that they were designed for.

This is all fun and games as long as every single class gets a niche where they can excel. And I mean a viable niche which is often demanded. Like a WvW/sPvP roamer for thieves, sPvP point guard for elems and guardians or PvE dungeon steamrollers for warriors. If thieves were designed to wtfpwn people in small skirmishes in PvP, what was is the design principle behind engineers or rangers for example?

Specific class roles can be fun if it works well for everyone (an example of Team Fortress 2 comes to mind). But current class “balance” in GW2 is not good and the thief issue discussion is part of the debate concerning it.

My main is an engineer becouse I liked the concept of the class. But atm it serves me as just that. A “main” which waits for better times. Meanwhile I use my warrior to run dungeons, I use my guardian to farm PvE and I am leveling more classes, cant yet decide which one will be my pick for WvW but it will be either thief for stomping “noobs” or mesmer for group utility. So far I submit to this flawed design but it does not change the fact that it is flawed.

the game isn’t really designed like the way he’s suggesting, Its an excuse used in every game that’s had stealthers

“Well, Such and Such stealther is meant to be amazing in 1v1”

Completely ignoring that my Stealth can do 1vsX and do much better then other classes as well

Is that your final argument? I guess it is. I’m the sterotypical excuse guy who makes the excuse people do in other mmos. Logic.

I’ll tell you what. I’m in the process of leveling and gearing a guardian. When I’m done, how about you, versus me and my buddy, since thieves excel at 1vX, right? So surely you should have no problem against a 1v2?

Here’s a preparation tip for you: We aren’t trash pugs.

Doom, I’ll take that deal. I eat Guardians for lunch on my Bunker Thief.

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Looking from a character’s point of view, thieves are supposed to strike from the shadows and ambush quickly and effectively. If stealth is nerfed don’t we lose a bit of what the thief stands for? We are meant to have a play style regarding thieving and stealth. Not face tanking with daggers.

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

knight.4379:

Looking from a character’s point of view, thieves are supposed to strike from the shadows and ambush quickly and effectively. If stealth is nerfed don’t we lose a bit of what the thief stands for? We are meant to have a play style regarding thieving and stealth. Not face tanking with daggers.

According to that logic, warriors are meant to be high damage in a sturdy body, so they should 1-shot everything while having 3.5k armor baseline?

Of course not. There are degrees, and stealth is too strong by some degrees, and thus needs to be toned down.

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

A picture of my 80 thief (sexy eh), full exo multiple sets all weapons

Orr and TA, please. PVE is hard yo.

Stealth does need a nerf.

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

This is a vacuum comparison between thief and necro. Many classes have abilities that are available only to them or they specialize in that isn’t something has to be accessed by F1. Everyone knows necro’s specialize in conditions they have traits revolved around it, same with rangers and pets, thieves and stealth, mesmers and clones every class has a specialized trait tree but you want to say that it isn’t apart of the class mechanic?

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

This is a vacuum comparison between thief and necro. Many classes have abilities that are available only to them or they specialize in that isn’t something has to be accessed by F1. Everyone knows necro’s specialize in conditions they have traits revolved around it, same with rangers and pets, thieves and stealth, mesmers and clones every class has a specialized trait tree but you want to say that it isn’t apart of the class mechanic?

A part. Stealth isn’t the whole class mechanic. Just like fear isn’t the whole class mechanic of the necro which is also about conditions, minions, DS, etc, and clones aren’t the whole class mechanic of the mesmer which is also about shatters, confusion, stealth, ethereal fields etc – all depending how you trait. So it goes with thieves and stealth.

A necessary toning down of stealth will not destroy the class.

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

A picture of my 80 thief (sexy eh), full exo multiple sets all weapons

Orr and TA, please. PVE is hard yo.

Stealth does need a nerf.

Really posting a picture of your gear proves that Thief is great in PvE? When was the last time you saw a post about a class being overpowered in PvE? That doesn’t mean that there aren’t classes that are far better at PvE.

I don’t take my thief into dungeons cause my mesmer is 10x better.

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

A picture of my 80 thief (sexy eh), full exo multiple sets all weapons

Orr and TA, please. PVE is hard yo.

Stealth does need a nerf.

Really posting a picture of your gear proves that Thief is great in PvE? When was the last time you saw a post about a class being overpowered in PvE? That doesn’t mean that there aren’t classes that are far better at PvE.

I don’t take my thief into dungeons cause my mesmer is 10x better.

My point was who cares about PVE.

Yeah.

jkctmc.8754:

Doom, I’ll take that deal. I eat Guardians for lunch on my Bunker Thief.

Sure. You versus me and my warrior friend. Anytime spvp(not on reset night). If you want wvw you will have to wait until i gear and level him.

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

A picture of my 80 thief (sexy eh), full exo multiple sets all weapons

Orr and TA, please. PVE is hard yo.

Stealth does need a nerf.

That’s a very nice screenshot. But it doesn’t prove anything. I want to see you prove S/D doesn’t need stealth to be effective in endgame PvE.

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

There is so much wrong with this post, I have to address it.

Yes nerfing stealth unnecessarily will destroy the class, because stealth is in fact one of their main mechanics. If you don’t believe me, go read the profession description at www.guildwars2.com.

It’s why thieves get a range of attacks they can only perform from stealth. Not only is it pivotal from an offensive point, but it’s also their fallback for defense. It’s been stated many times that thieves have the lowest base HP and medium armor, yet they need to get up close to do their big damage. Thieves don’t have access to the defensive skills most classes have. Not only that, but they have a whole trait line dedicated to stealth itself. Implying that stealth can be nerfed without having much effect on thieves is pure rubbish.

Thieves don’t dominate the top end tiers of sPvP, because those players are skilled and actually know how to counter stealth with ease. You won’t find any GC cookie cutter thieves running around there, because it’s a gimmick build designed to instagib noobs.

If you think thieves are great in PvE, you’re kidding yourself. They were weak before the last patch and now they’re even weaker. No one wants thieves in their dungeon parties. Was your example of 5 thieves finishing a dungeon in average gear supposed to prove a point? I’m sure any class of capable of that.

xiv.7136:

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

This is a vacuum comparison between thief and necro. Many classes have abilities that are available only to them or they specialize in that isn’t something has to be accessed by F1. Everyone knows necro’s specialize in conditions they have traits revolved around it, same with rangers and pets, thieves and stealth, mesmers and clones every class has a specialized trait tree but you want to say that it isn’t apart of the class mechanic?

A part. Stealth isn’t the whole class mechanic. Just like fear isn’t the whole class mechanic of the necro which is also about conditions, minions, DS, etc, and clones aren’t the whole class mechanic of the mesmer which is also about shatters, confusion, stealth, ethereal fields etc – all depending how you trait. So it goes with thieves and stealth.

A necessary toning down of stealth will not destroy the class.

Again a vacuum comparison the way clones for a mesmer works is totally different than DS or Steal or pets. It doesn’t work like Ranger X ability = Mesmer X ability. Its more like Ranger has abilities X,Y,Z and Mesmer has A,B,C. A might have similarities to X but they don’t serve the same purpose for that class.

It is apart of the class mechanic I agree and its a major part of it. Just like Clones are a major part of mesmers class mechanic. Everything revolves around the clones for a mesmer but that is how a mesmer works.

Everything for a thief doesn’t revolve around steal. You can trait it to do certain things but you can’t compare a full traited 35 sec F1 skill to the F1-F4 skill of a mesmer each with there own seperate cooldowns.

It is common for a mesmer to go 30 points into illusions it is uncommon for a thief to go 30 points into trickery.

If you traited for all the steal traits you would be 30 points in trick, 10 in Deadly arts, 20 in acro, and you would end up with damage, vigor, fury, swiftness, 1 stack of might, and possibility of stealing 2 boons, and apply poison every 30 secs. You also would get 2 secs of stealth on steal but mugged breaks stealth since it does damage. So that would be useless. You can’t compare that to a mesmer F1-F4 skills straight up and I am not saying that a mesmers F1-f4 skills are better than a thieves. They just are what they are designed to be.

xiv.7136:

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

A picture of my 80 thief (sexy eh), full exo multiple sets all weapons

Orr and TA, please. PVE is hard yo.

Stealth does need a nerf.

Really posting a picture of your gear proves that Thief is great in PvE? When was the last time you saw a post about a class being overpowered in PvE? That doesn’t mean that there aren’t classes that are far better at PvE.

I don’t take my thief into dungeons cause my mesmer is 10x better.

My point was who cares about PVE.

Yeah.

This is why you your statements hold no weight. You can’t seriously think you add anything to a debate about any topic when you say you don’t care about a major part of the game that shows your ignorance.

All you care about is the part of guild wars 2 that concerns you so there for you want balance or anything else to do with the game to revolve around your needs even if it happens at the expense of others. You probably think everyone that has a thief character only plays sPvP and WvW.

knight.4379:

Looking from a character’s point of view, thieves are supposed to strike from the shadows and ambush quickly and effectively. If stealth is nerfed don’t we lose a bit of what the thief stands for? We are meant to have a play style regarding thieving and stealth. Not face tanking with daggers.

no it won’t hurt that much. other games seem to manage balanced stealth. why not this one?

LOCO.1785:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

There is so much wrong with this post, I have to address it.

Yes nerfing stealth unnecessarily will destroy the class, because stealth is in fact one of their main mechanics. If you don’t believe me, go read the profession description at www.guildwars2.com.

It’s why thieves get a range of attacks they can only perform from stealth. Not only is it pivotal from an offensive point, but it’s also their fallback for defense. It’s been stated many times that thieves have the lowest base HP and medium armor, yet they need to get up close to do their big damage. Thieves don’t have access to the defensive skills most classes have. Not only that, but they have a whole trait line dedicated to stealth itself. Implying that stealth can be nerfed without having much effect on thieves is pure rubbish.

Thieves don’t dominate the top end tiers of sPvP, because those players are skilled and actually know how to counter stealth with ease. You won’t find any GC cookie cutter thieves running around there, because it’s a gimmick build designed to instagib noobs.

If you think thieves are great in PvE, you’re kidding yourself. They were weak before the last patch and now they’re even weaker. No one wants thieves in their dungeon parties. Was your example of 5 thieves finishing a dungeon in average gear supposed to prove a point? I’m sure any class of capable of that.

anet specifically stated that stealth is not the primary mechanic for thieves. sorry. try again.

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

A picture of my 80 thief (sexy eh), full exo multiple sets all weapons

Orr and TA, please. PVE is hard yo.

Stealth does need a nerf.

Really posting a picture of your gear proves that Thief is great in PvE? When was the last time you saw a post about a class being overpowered in PvE? That doesn’t mean that there aren’t classes that are far better at PvE.

I don’t take my thief into dungeons cause my mesmer is 10x better.

My point was who cares about PVE.

Yeah.

This is why you your statements hold no weight. You can’t seriously think you add anything to a debate about any topic when you say you don’t care about a major part of the game that shows your ignorance.

All you care about is the part of guild wars 2 that concerns you so there for you want balance or anything else to do with the game to revolve around your needs even if it happens at the expense of others. You probably think everyone that has a thief character only plays sPvP and WvW.

So your defense of stealth is that thieves need it for PVE?

Really?

Columba. I extend that challenge to you too. S/D Theif, TA, Orr, no stealth, recorded. No hiding behind your party. Make it happen.

Columba.9730:

anet specifically stated that stealth is not the primary mechanic for thieves. sorry. try again.

Quote?

Actually don’t bother, it’s worthless reasoning with people this dense.