Guild Wars 2

First off, it’s not a bug or a change to the total population caps to a given battleground made by A-Net. It is a symptom of two unrelated changes that went live on the January 28th:

• The end of free transfers.
• The “new” culling system, tested in December, was implemented.

Now here’s the breakdown:

I’ll start off with free transfers ending. This one is to blame for the queues on top-end servers being so rediculously long. Longer, even, than they were in the time since the end was announced. I’ll explain this one with one simple term: procrastination. Here’s an analogy: Have you ever forgotten a Christmas gift or the Thanksgiving meal until the day before? Do you remember how insanely busy all the retail stores are on Christmas Eve or how hard it is to find a turkey the day before Thanksgiving? This is because a large subset of people wait until the last minute to do things. The same thing happened with free transfers on the 28th. That same subset of people all transferred at the last minute. A large portion of them went to Kaineng or another top-end Wv3 server thus spiking their queue times through the roof while leaving servers like Gates of Madness and Henge of Denravi with absolutely no queues at all.

Next lets look at the “new” culling system. This one causes the seemingly deserted maps issue. If you remember the way it was described during the initial test, search it out if you don’t, this new system aggressively culls, hides, allied players in favor of showing enemy players. The thought process behind this is that seeing the enemy is more important than seeing your allies. This allows you to get a better count of the enemy strength, works to lessen the impact of tactics that abuse culling like portal bombs, and keeps you from running head-first into enemy zeros that you don’t even see all while keeping your performance stable and at a some-what acceptable level. This is all well and good except for the fact that it hides allied players to do so. It’s so aggressive, in fact, that it can sometimes cull up to fully half of the allied players you would normally see. This leads, understandably, to the illusion that there are far fewer allied players than there used to be. It also leads to underestimation of allied strength which leads to larger zeros running from, and thus getting killed by, smaller enemy zergs more often than it used to.

I hope this explanation helped clear up a few misconceptions that are floating around.

You’re wrong about the culling system being the cause for seemingly deserted maps.

You’re forgetting the reports of TC being outmanned and having a queue, of people actively searching the maps or asking in chat that everybody present type 1 in map chat and then keeping in account that not everybody did it.

On top of that, culling simply doesn’t have that effect. Even when it was bugged like hell in the trial run, with people not seeing Any allies regardless of how many (or little) enemies there were, they were at least still aware that they were there. You can also see dots on the minimap if you go looking for people, etc.

How can you even remotely present this as ‘how it really is’?

You’re speculating to the extreme, nothing more.

Culling being a reason why people think their server has less capacity? Seriously?

What official message or data are you basing you assumptions on?
I agree many of the speculations about reduced capacity are assumptions without proof too, but you present theories that are just as unlikely and unsupported to be honest…

Kimbald.2697:

How can you even remotely present this as ‘how it really is’?

You’re speculating to the extreme, nothing more.

Culling being a reason why people think their server has less capacity? Seriously?

What official message or data are you basing you assumptions on?
I agree many of the speculations about reduced capacity are assumptions without proof too, but you present theories that are just as unlikely and unsupported to be honest…

With Anet being silent we’re in the dark on the issue.

maybe there are queues because the maps are full

Blix.8021:

maybe there are queues because the maps are full

Well, obviously.

What people are reporting is there’s lower capacity on the maps. On the weekend I sat in queue for 2 hours twice and got in on a map that had only 40 players MAX on it and we were being spawn camped by a force double us.

GottFaust.5297:

…

I hope this explanation helped clear up a few misconceptions that are floating around.

You are the one expressing misconceptions while pretending to hold the truth…

We are able to communicate with people on the map. And we know how to count. I know both these things seem unbelievable.

There are fewer people on maps than before. It’s just plain maths. And this has been verified (aka counted) on multiple occurences on multiple servers.

Thanks for fanboying anyway.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Blix.8021:

maybe there are queues because the maps are full

Well, obviously.

What people are reporting is there’s lower capacity on the maps. On the weekend I sat in queue for 2 hours twice and got in on a map that had only 40 players MAX on it and we were being spawn camped by a force double us.

This^^^

Is what we are experiencing as well. It is getting tiresome getting on to a map for a guild push and being outmanned 2 or 3 to 1 and having a queue. It also sux when it is happening the opposite. No one wants an unfair advantage because of a bug. It really makes the scores this week meaningless.

T2 is extremely competetive thsi week and who knows if it just beacuse we are all about the same level or because of the bug. We are having some great fights when we get lucky and everyone seems to have about the same amount on each side, but when it is severly skewed one way or the other it is just a ROFLSTOMP for some servers.

The real reasons for the “queue bug” is that Elvis was kidnapped by Bigfoot and given to Aliens. Who performed a anal probe on him which gave birth to the wolfboy who went wild and stormed Anet office add pumped into a keyboard messing up Que code.

My theory has about as much fact to be real as yours does.

Ruprect.7260:

ComeAndSee.1356:

Blix.8021:

maybe there are queues because the maps are full

Well, obviously.

What people are reporting is there’s lower capacity on the maps. On the weekend I sat in queue for 2 hours twice and got in on a map that had only 40 players MAX on it and we were being spawn camped by a force double us.

This^^^

Is what we are experiencing as well. It is getting tiresome getting on to a map for a guild push and being outmanned 2 or 3 to 1 and having a queue. It also sux when it is happening the opposite. No one wants an unfair advantage because of a bug. It really makes the scores this week meaningless.

T2 is extremely competetive thsi week and who knows if it just beacuse we are all about the same level or because of the bug. We are having some great fights when we get lucky and everyone seems to have about the same amount on each side, but when it is severly skewed one way or the other it is just a ROFLSTOMP for some servers.

I second this.We are having a blast fighting in T2, but the queues are killing us. more than half of our guild was stuck in queue for an hour last night and when we got in we were outnumbered and i could barely see enough defenders to make a decent push. I know you guys in TC are experiencing the same thing and it sucks as I really enjoy our matchup!

Kimbald.2697:

How can you even remotely present this as ‘how it really is’?

You’re speculating to the extreme, nothing more.

Culling being a reason why people think their server has less capacity? Seriously?

What official message or data are you basing you assumptions on?
I agree many of the speculations about reduced capacity are assumptions without proof too, but you present theories that are just as unlikely and unsupported to be honest…

And yet you blindly subscribe to the even wilder speculation that A-Net secretly lowered the population cap in a conspiracy to cause Wv3 to be terrible for top-tier servers and thus force them to pay money to transfer.

For the record: Gates of Madness, a low tier server by all accounts, managed to have 3 30+ man zergs running around EB at one point on Saturday. This is well above the speculated 50-man limit thus debunking this claim.

Edit – I forgot to mention that we don’t have queues, and have not had any in months.

Wonderful, that means there’s an actual bug instead of an unanounced cap lowering?
Because you have to admit that Gates of Madness isn’t the only server around, and I hate to bring it up (again), but… TC outmanned with queue and people thoroughly checking out population on their lands.

Yeah, wrong on all counts bud.

Sunspots.9861:

Yeah, wrong on all counts bud.

Unfortunately you cannot possibly know that.

The only official response has stated that the queues on TC are acceptable, intended, and that all the “missing” players are indeed present. You can see this response on the first page of the following thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/first he even goes on to explain exactly how the queues work. I used this information, some educated observation (I’m a Software Engineer), and some plain old common sense to formulate my OP. where’s your proof outside of wild speculation and anecdotal claims?

Your theories are incorrect. I read through your post and found it to be wrong on all counts. It’s your theory, thus your job to back it up with evidence…yet everything you laid out is contrary to fact. You are wrong sir.

I hate to repeat myself 3 times, so i’ll just mention that there is plenty of proof that Something at least is wrong, we jsut don’t know exactly what the problem is and THAT is the wild speculation, not that something is wrong.

Burl.9567:

GottFaust.5297:

Sunspots.9861:

Yeah, wrong on all counts bud.

Unfortunately you cannot possibly know that.

The only official response has stated that the queues on TC are acceptable, intended, and that all the “missing” players are indeed present. You can see this response on the first page of the following thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/first he even goes on to explain exactly how the queues work. I used this information, some educated observation (I’m a Software Engineer), and some plain old common sense to formulate my OP. where’s your proof outside of wild speculation and anecdotal claims?

Why is it when anyone ever gets called out they all the sudden become an expert on the subject after getting called out? (I’m a Software Engineer)

In this instance, I actually am, though my work recently has focused more on GUI work and inter-system communication of data rather than networking queues and the like. Don’t believe me if you don’t want to. I won’t be providing you any “hard proof” because that would make my work/contact info publicly available, which is a stupid idea. Suffice to say I graduated from USC, South Carolina, with a Batchelors in CompSci in 2008 and have since been working for a DoD contractor in Charleston SC as a Software Engineer.

Genev.2450:

I hate to repeat myself 3 times, so i’ll just mention that there is plenty of proof that Something at least is wrong, we jsut don’t know exactly what the problem is and THAT is the wild speculation, not that something is wrong.

Yes, something clearly is wrong. I haven’t argued against that point. I’ve simply provided a logical explanation to the perceived issue in hopes to stem the tide of wild misconceptions. Were the issue the fault of A-Net soley (the culling change IS their fault while the transfers are the fault of the community), I would be calling for a fix. As it stands, the only fix for the long queues of heavily populated Wv3 centric servers is for people to transfer off or quit playing. Both of those eventualities have to be decided by the individual players. A-Net can’t easily do anything about them.

GottFaust.5297:

Burl.9567:

GottFaust.5297:

Sunspots.9861:

Yeah, wrong on all counts bud.

Unfortunately you cannot possibly know that.

The only official response has stated that the queues on TC are acceptable, intended, and that all the “missing” players are indeed present. You can see this response on the first page of the following thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/first he even goes on to explain exactly how the queues work. I used this information, some educated observation (I’m a Software Engineer), and some plain old common sense to formulate my OP. where’s your proof outside of wild speculation and anecdotal claims?

Why is it when anyone ever gets called out they all the sudden become an expert on the subject after getting called out? (I’m a Software Engineer)

In this instance, I actually am, though my work recently has focused more on GUI work and inter-system communication of data rather than networking queues and the like. Don’t believe me if you don’t want to. I won’t be providing you any “hard proof” because that would make my work/contact info publicly available, which is a stupid idea. Suffice to say I graduated from USC, South Carolina, with a Batchelors in CompSci in 2008 and have since been working for a DoD contractor in Charleston SC as a Software Engineer.

So working in a completely unrelated field makes you an expert on a gaming queue. You obviously have access to internal anet data then? So please copy paste the data into this thread and we can all go home;)

GottFaust.5297:

Kimbald.2697:

How can you even remotely present this as ‘how it really is’?

You’re speculating to the extreme, nothing more.

Culling being a reason why people think their server has less capacity? Seriously?

What official message or data are you basing you assumptions on?
I agree many of the speculations about reduced capacity are assumptions without proof too, but you present theories that are just as unlikely and unsupported to be honest…

And yet you blindly subscribe to the even wilder speculation that A-Net secretly lowered the population cap in a conspiracy to cause Wv3 to be terrible for top-tier servers and thus force them to pay money to transfer.

no I don’t.
What in my post says I subscribe to any conspiracy theory?

Try to read: I put down YOUR speculation.

I do not add any speculation of my own to the post. None at all.
On the contrary: I even questioned some of the other specualtions made, in a general fashion.

Don’t you realise you just put words in my mouth I never uttered, from near or far?
Your reaction proves that you are mostly shortsighted and biased and out for a fight.

I’m going to have to strongly disagree with you op. Explain queues on a map with outmanned. Or queues on a map entirely owned by another server and barely anyone in spawn despite commanders asking to rally there or pressing 1 in map chat for head count. Your telling me I can’t see everyone because of ….. Culling? So are they all harvesting? Or some suggest the jump puzzle – um even though we don’t own the keep? Lol post like this make >.< GOM isint experience this I’m assuming, but feel free to pop over to TC to see for yourself.

When you do a test with 5 people trying to log in to the same BL spaced 1 minute apart. Person 1 straight in, person 2 straight in, person 3 – ques, person 4 straight in (3 still in que), person 5 straight in (person 3 still in que), 30 minutes later 3 is still in que. Random members of your test group have logged in and out of the borderland a few times and gotten right back in…this is not a “we have too many people trying to WvW” problem.

GottFaust.5297:

Genev.2450:

I hate to repeat myself 3 times, so i’ll just mention that there is plenty of proof that Something at least is wrong, we jsut don’t know exactly what the problem is and THAT is the wild speculation, not that something is wrong.

Yes, something clearly is wrong. I haven’t argued against that point. I’ve simply provided a logical explanation to the perceived issue in hopes to stem the tide of wild misconceptions. Were the issue the fault of A-Net soley (the culling change IS their fault while the transfers are the fault of the community), I would be calling for a fix. As it stands, the only fix for the long queues of heavily populated Wv3 centric servers is for people to transfer off or quit playing. Both of those eventualities have to be decided by the individual players. A-Net can’t easily do anything about them.

You are blindly ignoring the reports of other people though, the symptoms.
While some of them might be exagerated, not all of them are and in some cases are confirmed by other servers (case in point: TC) observing it and supporting their confusion/outrage.

Normal queues would be grumbled over, but there wouldn’t be this type of reaction – the game has been out for quite some time now and queues, while disliked, are accepted as a reality in the game.

The problem isn’t the queues themselves, its the actual Population (or lack thereof) inside While there’s a queue, and the lottery system the queue is, isntead of the claimed FIFO. (The same lottery system they acknowledged and said they were looknig at in september)

Ubi.4136:

When you do a test with 5 people trying to log in to the same BL spaced 1 minute apart. Person 1 straight in, person 2 straight in, person 3 – ques, person 4 straight in (3 still in que), person 5 straight in (person 3 still in que), 30 minutes later 3 is still in que. Random members of your test group have logged in and out of the borderland a few times and gotten right back in…this is not a “we have too many people trying to WvW” problem.

Based on the previously referenced developer post, if individual 3 is experiencing connection issues, particularly packet loss which interrupts communication to the server, they MAY be removed from the queue until communication is restored and thus be in a later queue position. Individual 3 may want to check their connection to the server in question, you can get the IP by typing “/ip” in chat, to verify that this isn’t an issue. I can speak from experience that there is currently a Level3 Communications routing node in Dallas Texas ( where the NA servers are located) that’s currently having some sort of load issue during NA prime-time. I am personally affected by this issue resulting in a 10-20% packet loss to the A-Net servers during peak hours. I have contacted my ISP and had them put a routing exception to keep me from hitting the affected node and thus fixing my issue. I can get you the IP of this node when I get off work if you’d like?

Genev.2450:

GottFaust.5297:

Genev.2450:

I hate to repeat myself 3 times, so i’ll just mention that there is plenty of proof that Something at least is wrong, we jsut don’t know exactly what the problem is and THAT is the wild speculation, not that something is wrong.

Yes, something clearly is wrong. I haven’t argued against that point. I’ve simply provided a logical explanation to the perceived issue in hopes to stem the tide of wild misconceptions. Were the issue the fault of A-Net soley (the culling change IS their fault while the transfers are the fault of the community), I would be calling for a fix. As it stands, the only fix for the long queues of heavily populated Wv3 centric servers is for people to transfer off or quit playing. Both of those eventualities have to be decided by the individual players. A-Net can’t easily do anything about them.

You are blindly ignoring the reports of other people though, the symptoms.
While some of them might be exagerated, not all of them are and in some cases are confirmed by other servers (case in point: TC) observing it and supporting their confusion/outrage.

Normal queues would be grumbled over, but there wouldn’t be this type of reaction – the game has been out for quite some time now and queues, while disliked, are accepted as a reality in the game.

The problem isn’t the queues themselves, its the actual Population (or lack thereof) inside While there’s a queue, and the lottery system the queue is, isntead of the claimed FIFO. (The same lottery system they acknowledged and said they were looknig at in september)

I’m ignoring most of those claims as they have been directly debunked by a developer already. Yes, people are fallible and developers are people, but I trust them much more than random people, rightfully annoyed by long queues as they may be, making obviously exaggerated claims.

Hate to quote myself, but this isn’t exaggerated…this was last night around 9 pm central.

When you do a test with 5 people trying to log in to the same BL spaced 1 minute apart. Person 1 straight in, person 2 straight in, person 3 – ques, person 4 straight in (3 still in que), person 5 straight in (person 3 still in que), 30 minutes later 3 is still in que. Random members of your test group have logged in and out of the borderland a few times and gotten right back in…this is not a “we have too many people trying to WvW” problem.

This also isn’t the first night we’ve tried this, and it’s not always the same person, or just one person, that can’t get in.

Ubi.4136:

Hate to quote myself, but this isn’t exaggerated…this was last night around 9 pm central.

When you do a test with 5 people trying to log in to the same BL spaced 1 minute apart. Person 1 straight in, person 2 straight in, person 3 – ques, person 4 straight in (3 still in que), person 5 straight in (person 3 still in que), 30 minutes later 3 is still in que. Random members of your test group have logged in and out of the borderland a few times and gotten right back in…this is not a “we have too many people trying to WvW” problem.

Please read my response to your previous post concerning this issue. The timing you mention matches with the timing of the symptoms I reference.

GottFaust.5297:

I’m ignoring most of those claims as they have been directly debunked by a developer already. Yes, people are fallible and developers are people, but I trust them much more than random people, rightfully annoyed by long queues as they may be, making obviously exaggerated claims.

Where was this debunked?

If you are referring to the post in this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/page/3#post1379180

This was posted before most of this started happening to the extent it is now. Last week it was a little noticable throughout the week as we had queues but it would seem the BL was actually full and this degraded over the course of the week untuil at the end of the week we would have queues and not a full BL.

After the reset last Friday this was extremely noticable as every week there was a queue on reset night obviously. This time it was very different. Times before we would have 2+ zergs covering a map and you could plainly see there was a ton of ppl there. After the reset on friday night, we had queues and not anywhere near 166 ppl on the map. This was made very obvious to us as we coordinate with the other guilds on our server through a serverwide mumble. We maybe had 50-60 players on the whole map and a very long queue, up to 4+ hours for some. As the night progressed and ppl started logging out we noticed no one was getting in and the numbers were steadily decreasing. The servers that had big groups on and no one logging off still had a lot of ppl on the map, our server who had a lot log off while I was on lost players that never were replaced.

We are very coordianted and close knit. We all noticed this problem and it was made very clear in mumble.

You probably don’t have a serverwide mumble or nearly the coordination we do based on your t7 presence so it does not suprise me this has gone unnoticed by you.

@ GottFaust.5297 “if individual 3 is experiencing connection issues, particularly packet loss which interrupts communication to the server, they MAY be removed from the queue until communication is restored and thus be in a later queue position”

The problem with this is…there is no que. So, how can they be moved further down in the que when there isn’t one. When 5-10 people are saying in voice chat that they can log in and out of the BL repeatedly with zero issue (no que), and even 1 to 2 people experience que, there is a problem. The example I listed was just last night (for time), but this has been going on for at least a week (to us), at varied times during the day/night with people playing in the US, Canada and Israel.

Ruprect.7260:

GottFaust.5297:

I’m ignoring most of those claims as they have been directly debunked by a developer already. Yes, people are fallible and developers are people, but I trust them much more than random people, rightfully annoyed by long queues as they may be, making obviously exaggerated claims.

Where was this debunked?

If you are referring to the post in this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/page/3#post1379180

This was posted before most of this started happening to the extent it is now. Last week it was a little noticable throughout the week as we had queues but it would seem the BL was actually full and this degraded over the course of the week untuil at the end of the week we would have queues and not a full BL.

After the reset last Friday this was extremely noticable as every week there was a queue on reset night obviously. This time it was very different. Times before we would have 2+ zergs covering a map and you could plainly see there was a ton of ppl there. After the reset on friday night, we had queues and not anywhere near 166 ppl on the map. This was made very obvious to us as we coordinate with the other guilds on our server through a serverwide mumble. We maybe had 50-60 players on the whole map and a very long queue, up to 4+ hours for some. As the night progressed and ppl started logging out we noticed no one was getting in and the numbers were steadily decreasing. The servers that had big groups on and no one logging off still had a lot of ppl on the map, our server who had a lot log off while I was on lost players that never were replaced.

We are very coordianted and close knit. We all noticed this problem and it was made very clear in mumble.

You probably don’t have a serverwide mumble or nearly the coordination we do based on your t7 presence so it does not suprise me this has gone unnoticed by you.

Considering the fact that he debunks every symptom listed, continuing to list them doesn’t make him wrong. You should know that…

What I suspect that you are referencing is a symptom of both growing pains and the ratings reset. let me explain: TC was listed as full for all but the earliest hours of the morning for a long time. Many people were complaining that they could not transfer to TC during the time following the announcement of the end of free transfers. As a result of this they actually raised the server population cap, note I said server not Wv3. So many people transferred in after this that it’s STILL listed as full during NA prime time. I’m willing to bet that very few of these new individuals know, care to know, or care at all that you use a “server wide” mumble let alone what the server info is or even what mumble is. This issue will correct itself in time as the information disseminates through their ranks, assuming you make it publicly known. This ties into the second cause, the ratings reset. As more and more people figure out that the ratings have been reset, they naturally want to go out to Wv3 and make their mark. These are often new transfers and people who don’t normally participate in Wv3. They didn’t care prior because the tiers were largely static with advancement being rare outside of mass transfers, and they see it as boring to fight the same people over and over. Now that this is changing they suddenly care again. For example: Gates of Madness could barely field 2 30+ man zergs in EB on a given day before the raitings reset. The interest just wasn’t there. Since word of the reset has gotten out we consistently have 2, and sometimes 3, very large zergs running around and many smaller groups taking camps and the like.

Basically what you have is a bunch of new transfers and newly interested players who don’t know about your established communication channels, and may not care to know, who are clogging up your Wv3 and creating queues for the rest of the established community.

GottFaust.5297:

Ruprect.7260:

GottFaust.5297:

I’m ignoring most of those claims as they have been directly debunked by a developer already. Yes, people are fallible and developers are people, but I trust them much more than random people, rightfully annoyed by long queues as they may be, making obviously exaggerated claims.

Where was this debunked?

If you are referring to the post in this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/page/3#post1379180

This was posted before most of this started happening to the extent it is now. Last week it was a little noticable throughout the week as we had queues but it would seem the BL was actually full and this degraded over the course of the week untuil at the end of the week we would have queues and not a full BL.

After the reset last Friday this was extremely noticable as every week there was a queue on reset night obviously. This time it was very different. Times before we would have 2+ zergs covering a map and you could plainly see there was a ton of ppl there. After the reset on friday night, we had queues and not anywhere near 166 ppl on the map. This was made very obvious to us as we coordinate with the other guilds on our server through a serverwide mumble. We maybe had 50-60 players on the whole map and a very long queue, up to 4+ hours for some. As the night progressed and ppl started logging out we noticed no one was getting in and the numbers were steadily decreasing. The servers that had big groups on and no one logging off still had a lot of ppl on the map, our server who had a lot log off while I was on lost players that never were replaced.

We are very coordianted and close knit. We all noticed this problem and it was made very clear in mumble.

You probably don’t have a serverwide mumble or nearly the coordination we do based on your t7 presence so it does not suprise me this has gone unnoticed by you.

Considering the fact that he debunks every symptom listed, continuing to list them doesn’t make him wrong. You should know that…

What I suspect that you are referencing is a symptom of both growing pains and the ratings reset. let me explain: TC was listed as full for all but the earliest hours of the morning for a long time. Many people were complaining that they could not transfer to TC during the time following the announcement of the end of free transfers. As a result of this they actually raised the server population cap, note I said server not Wv3. So many people transferred in after this that it’s STILL listed as full during NA prime time. I’m willing to bet that very few of these new individuals know, care to know, or care at all that you use a “server wide” mumble let alone what the server info is or even what mumble is. This issue will correct itself in time as the information disseminates through their ranks, assuming you make it publicly known. This ties into the second cause, the ratings reset. As more and more people figure out that the ratings have been reset, they naturally want to go out to Wv3 and make their mark. These are often new transfers and people who don’t normally participate in Wv3. They didn’t care prior because the tiers were largely static with advancement being rare outside of mass transfers, and they see it as boring to fight the same people over and over. Now that this is changing they suddenly care again. For example: Gates of Madness could barely field 2 30+ man zergs in EB on a given day before the raitings reset. The interest just wasn’t there. Since word of the reset has gotten out we consistently have 2, and sometimes 3, very large zergs running around and many smaller groups taking camps and the like.

Basically what you have is a bunch of new transfers and newly interested players who don’t know about your established communication channels, and may not care to know, who are clogging up your Wv3 and creating queues for the rest of the established community.

Oh look a long rehash of the initial post that is still factually inaccurate. Thanks for your concern but we don’t need any unpaid pseudo-designers on the job.

I dont beleive this. The mumble is constantly being advertized in /m chat. It is very well known that we have it and is for anyone to use. This is besides the point.

It is not hard to gauge the the number of ppl on a map. Can you tell me where 120+ people are hiding on the map when we have a queue. Im sorry but you can run to all towers/keeps/JP and keep an eye on the fighting and know where most ppl are. We are just not seeing enough ppl on a map to constitute a queue. I would be fine with the queue if the maps were actually full, that is expected. This is not the case, there are instances of queues for hours while the server inside has a outmanned buff??? Please explain this to me.

Also
“We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.”

If the above was the case there would never be less than about 150 on a map when there is a queue depending on what a few slots actually means. I can gaurantee you I have not witnessed 150 ppl on a map since reset.

Gottfaust, when the real reason for all of this shakes out you are going to look like even more of a clown than you do now. It’s one thing to not even acknowledge the problem that so many other players experience, but to portray your theory as fact is far beneath your supposed technical credentials. Everything you have written is rank supposition, most of which doesn’t even fit the breadth of evidence at hand.

Cactus.2710:

Gottfaust, when the real reason for all of this shakes out you are going to look like even more of a clown than you do now. It’s one thing to not even acknowledge the problem that so many other players experience, but to portray your theory as fact is far beneath your supposed technical credentials. Everything you have written is rank supposition, most of which doesn’t even fit the breadth of evidence at hand.

Well said. +1 As I am in complete agreement.

Ruprect.7260:

I dont beleive this. The mumble is constantly being advertized in /m chat. It is very well known that we have it and is for anyone to use. This is besides the point.

It is not hard to gauge the the number of ppl on a map. Can you tell me where 120+ people are hiding on the map when we have a queue. Im sorry but you can run to all towers/keeps/JP and keep an eye on the fighting and know where most ppl are. We are just not seeing enough ppl on a map to constitute a queue. I would be fine with the queue if the maps were actually full, that is expected. This is not the case, there are instances of queues for hours while the server inside has a outmanned buff??? Please explain this to me.

Also
“We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.”

If the above was the case there would never be less than about 150 on a map when there is a queue depending on what a few slots actually means. I can gaurantee you I have not witnessed 150 ppl on a map since reset.

Back to my initial point. You aren’t seeing them because the new culling system aggressively culls allied players in favor of enemy players.

I’m going to ignore this ridiculous post now and hope it makes it to page two where it belongs.

GottFaust.5297:

Ruprect.7260:

I dont beleive this. The mumble is constantly being advertized in /m chat. It is very well known that we have it and is for anyone to use. This is besides the point.

It is not hard to gauge the the number of ppl on a map. Can you tell me where 120+ people are hiding on the map when we have a queue. Im sorry but you can run to all towers/keeps/JP and keep an eye on the fighting and know where most ppl are. We are just not seeing enough ppl on a map to constitute a queue. I would be fine with the queue if the maps were actually full, that is expected. This is not the case, there are instances of queues for hours while the server inside has a outmanned buff??? Please explain this to me.

Also
“We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.”

If the above was the case there would never be less than about 150 on a map when there is a queue depending on what a few slots actually means. I can gaurantee you I have not witnessed 150 ppl on a map since reset.

Back to my initial point. You aren’t seeing them because the new culling system aggressively culls allied players in favor of enemy players.

Lol, have you even experienced the new culling system? If there are no enemies on the screen I can see my whole zerg, when we all go to our keep to stack up and get ready for a big push are you telling me that I am only seeing 25-30 of my allies and the other 100+ are there but invisible?
And when we are running around in the world as a group of 5-10 taiking camps and there are no enemies around there are a buch of invisible groups that we cant see.

Not only that but the culling system is a whole nother thread. Most ppl think it’s worse than it was before.

LOL wtf.

The server not sending my client info on a number of players around me (culling) is obviously the reason for the queue bug.

I love this place sometimes.

Also, threads like this are why it’s better for a company to come clean and admit there is a problem.

If a company stays silent, every self professed expert in the world suddenly knows “the real reason” and starts spreading rumors about the issue. People who don’t know better start accepting these posts as credible because the actual experts (the game company itself) won’t say anything.

Ruprect.7260:

GottFaust.5297:

Ruprect.7260:

I dont beleive this. The mumble is constantly being advertized in /m chat. It is very well known that we have it and is for anyone to use. This is besides the point.

It is not hard to gauge the the number of ppl on a map. Can you tell me where 120+ people are hiding on the map when we have a queue. Im sorry but you can run to all towers/keeps/JP and keep an eye on the fighting and know where most ppl are. We are just not seeing enough ppl on a map to constitute a queue. I would be fine with the queue if the maps were actually full, that is expected. This is not the case, there are instances of queues for hours while the server inside has a outmanned buff??? Please explain this to me.

Also
“We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.”

If the above was the case there would never be less than about 150 on a map when there is a queue depending on what a few slots actually means. I can gaurantee you I have not witnessed 150 ppl on a map since reset.

Back to my initial point. You aren’t seeing them because the new culling system aggressively culls allied players in favor of enemy players.

Lol, have you even experienced the new culling system? If there are no enemies on the screen I can see my whole zerg, when we all go to our keep to stack up and get ready for a big push are you telling me that I am only seeing 25-30 of my allies and the other 100+ are there but invisible?
And when we are running around in the world as a group of 5-10 taiking camps and there are no enemies around there are a buch of invisible groups that we cant see.

Not only that but the culling system is a whole nother thread. Most ppl think it’s worse than it was before.

I agree, I also dislike the new culling system as I had gotten used to the old one and its limitations. That being said it is well known and heavily documented that it, as I have stated, aggressively culls allied players. I’m surprised you’d even dispute that after acknowledging it yourself.

Cactus.2710:

Gottfaust, when the real reason for all of this shakes out you are going to look like even more of a clown than you do now. It’s one thing to not even acknowledge the problem that so many other players experience, but to portray your theory as fact is far beneath your supposed technical credentials. Everything you have written is rank supposition, most of which doesn’t even fit the breadth of evidence at hand.

Bravo, you’ve resorted to argumentum ad ignotantiam as well as base name calling. Both sure signs of having lost an argument and having nothing to contribute.

Porky.5021:

Also, threads like this are why it’s better for a company to come clean and admit there is a problem.

If a company stays silent, every self professed expert in the world suddenly knows “the real reason” and starts spreading rumors about the issue. People who don’t know better start accepting these posts as credible because the actual experts (the game company itself) won’t say anything.

^this^

more characters

It aggressivly culls allies over enemies. That means there needs to be enemies around in order for the culling to take place.

That does not explain why there is a lack of players when we are in our own keep rallying, they should not be culled.

All I want is an explanation of what we are experiencing from Anet. If it is culling not working as intended than fine, just tell us. But there are too many experiences being shared on the forums even from lower pop servers that there is a problem.

Porky.5021:

LOL wtf.

The server not sending my client info on a number of players around me (culling) is obviously the reason for the queue bug.

I love this place sometimes.

Not to mention the culling now effects your mini map too.

“Aggressively culled allied players” does not mean you can’t see people on the minimap anymore, and it only really should happen when you’re in large encounters or very large zergs – not when you’re running around on your own or in very small groups trying to find out where other people are, as people have reported doing.

Culling does not mean that suddenly you run around on your own, just thought i’d let you know.

Edit: Highfive to the 2 people above me

Genev.2450:

“Aggressively culled allied players” does not mean you can’t see people on the minimap anymore, and it only really should happen when you’re in large encounters or very large zergs – not when you’re running around on your own or in very small groups trying to find out where other people are, as people have reported doing.

Culling does not mean that suddenly you run around on your own, just thought i’d let you know.

Edit: Highfive to the 2 people above me

And yet both of those issues were reported multiple times during the trial run of this new culling system… I’ll let you draw your own conclusions from that.

GottFaust.5297:

Genev.2450:

“Aggressively culled allied players” does not mean you can’t see people on the minimap anymore, and it only really should happen when you’re in large encounters or very large zergs – not when you’re running around on your own or in very small groups trying to find out where other people are, as people have reported doing.

Culling does not mean that suddenly you run around on your own, just thought i’d let you know.

Edit: Highfive to the 2 people above me

And yet both of those issues were reported multiple times during the trial run of this new culling system… I’ll let you draw your own conclusions from that.

If this were the case and there is no problem with the queues and I just have 100 invisible ppl with me. Why then do I not see attacks coming from invisile people around me.

I will test this tonight and let you know.

We will call eveyone to arms on a map with a que, I will pm the ppl I can see and tell them not to attack when we run into another group, we will then run everyone out and find a group of enemies. If what you are saying is true, while we are all standing there doing nothing we should see enemies start to magically die by the invisible army around us.

GottFaust.5297:

Sunspots.9861:

Yeah, wrong on all counts bud.

Unfortunately you cannot possibly know that.

The only official response has stated that the queues on TC are acceptable, intended, and that all the “missing” players are indeed present. You can see this response on the first page of the following thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/first he even goes on to explain exactly how the queues work. I used this information, some educated observation (I’m a Software Engineer), and some plain old common sense to formulate my OP. where’s your proof outside of wild speculation and anecdotal claims?

Since no one else has pointed this out. Habib has yet to post if he had a chance to verify that the map slots were being properly cleared from the DB when players logout. There was no mention of player status in post when he polled the DB, just that he was able to poll for player names and presumably saw some movement of the lists. Even you cannot ignore that fact that players “offline” are still showing up on the maps. Nothing has been debunked, this requires more investigation.

As a mathematician, I think the key mistake you are making Mr. GottFaust is not understanding the difference between a conjecture and a theorem. The title of this topic is “The real reasons for the queue bug;” however, you present speculation not proof. If the title were “A theory on the queue bug” I am certain that people here would be more receptive to your ideas.

Plato.6128:

As a mathematician, I think the key mistake you are making Mr. GottFaust is not understanding the difference between a conjecture and a theorem. The title of this topic is “The real reasons for the queue bug;” however, you present speculation not proof. If the title were “A theory on the queue bug” I am certain that people here would be more receptive to your ideas.

This is a very valid point. I have made the suggested change. As an engineer, I am very literal-minded. Given the fact that no one can prove, beyond a shadow of doubt, that their theory is more than based on observation until a definitive answer is given from A-Net, I assumed the fact that this is a theory would be obvious, and that the old title would be fine.

GottFaust.5297:

Plato.6128:

As a mathematician, I think the key mistake you are making Mr. GottFaust is not understanding the difference between a conjecture and a theorem. The title of this topic is “The real reasons for the queue bug;” however, you present speculation not proof. If the title were “A theory on the queue bug” I am certain that people here would be more receptive to your ideas.

This is a very valid point. I have made the suggested change. As an engineer, I am very literal-minded. Given the fact that no one can prove, beyond a shadow of doubt, that their theory is more than based on observation, until a definitive answer is given from A-Net, I assumed the fact that this is a theory would be obvious, and that the old title would be fine.

You must not spend much time on the forums;)

So many ppl spout thier speculation as fact, when a person sees this they instantly go on the offensive looking for facts to backup the claim.

You would have received a much better response by using the word theory.

GottFaust.5297:

Plato.6128:

As a mathematician, I think the key mistake you are making Mr. GottFaust is not understanding the difference between a conjecture and a theorem. The title of this topic is “The real reasons for the queue bug;” however, you present speculation not proof. If the title were “A theory on the queue bug” I am certain that people here would be more receptive to your ideas.

This is a very valid point. I have made the suggested change. As an engineer, I am very literal-minded. Given the fact that no one can prove, beyond a shadow of doubt, that their theory is more than based on observation until a definitive answer is given from A-Net, I assumed the fact that this is a theory would be obvious, and that the old title would be fine.

Sadly, this is the exact reason why many software engineers are horrible at what they do. I have experienced it first hand in both the public and private sectors. The truth is that designing software well requires a different mindset than the classic engineer stereotype. Of course, some of this is only relevant to the type of software you typically design because the classic mindset does work well enough in some cases.

Anyways, I am a subject matter expert as well and I disagree both with your theories and your reasoning behind them.