WvW won't become what we hoped it would

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Posted by: Ariel Cor Leonis Inferi.2894

Ariel Cor Leonis Inferi.2894

March is near and I haven’t seen any news regarding WvW update -.-

Ded gaem

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Posted by: Balfour.9046

Balfour.9046

Agree, although wvw is the best since daoc, I am disappointed in the ease of clearing a map in a short time. One massive map with three entry points with castles and keeps leading to central reward would be much better IMO. More aggressive mobs in the woods and building factions with one mob which in turn makes another dislike you, so you can run through one area while running in constant fear in another. Guilds that claim a keep should be able to flip the upgrade and restore the supply. Look at the daoc concept, keeps have four towers, castles have four keeps, for each tower the number of guards at the keep and castle increases. Towers are easier to take than keeps and keeps are easier than castles. If you are on a wall you should be able to shoot farther than someone on the ground and you shouldn’t have to jump on the ledge to shoot. Wvw is a great start, now prepare an expansion and take it to the next level, this is what it is all about.

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Posted by: Columba.9730

Columba.9730

I disagree with most of this. the most game breaking issue in wvw is the culling bug and the resulting perma stealth that thieves get without speccing for it.

only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.

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Posted by: Exsus.4916

Exsus.4916

I agree with most of the problems described. I personally feel, the reason WvW is on the back burner is because it not their cash making priority. I think the developers were expecting SPvP to be the main focus and they was going to make a fortune on renting servers and etc. It seems every time a major patch comes relating to PvP, its to cater to SPvP. They gotten tons of updates since launch while WvW has gotten zero love. This is because they never expected to make money off WvW and SPvP is what they hoped to pay the bills with.

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Posted by: mattattack.1673

mattattack.1673

i have to agree with his points regarding rewards, and guilds.

I definitely feel like guilds should have way more significance in this game

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Posted by: XtalDelphium.5679

XtalDelphium.5679

I agree completely OP. Unfortunately I don’t find the strictly Zerg v Zerg experience to be enjoyable (I can only speak for T2, but my experience in the BG’s lately has been almost entirely zerg vs zerg), so I haven’t been playing much lately as WvW is the only reason I’m still playing the game. I think this game has a lot of potential, but WvW will have to change drastically for it to reach that potential. Larger battlegrounds, removal of the battle markers on the maps, a revamp of the commander feature, a revamp of keep upgrades, fixing culling, all could really improve the WvW experience, but if something doesn’t change for the better, I think GW2 will be losing a lot of players who are disheartened with the current nature of WvW. I’m hoping with the March update we will either see some decent changes or at least hear about their plans for the future.

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Posted by: zen.6091

zen.6091

The zerg meta, be it guild zergs or random zergs, will only end if more objectives and more points are added to maps making it impossible for 1 or 2 large zergs to cover everything. People will still do it, and the bad guilds will still want to run around face rolling in the field, but it will at least open the door to actual use of coordination and tactics being rewarded with more points.

Whether it’s the truth or they don’t have the resources / budget, anet has already said larger maps are impossible. That’s fine, there’s already huge swaths of EBG and the borderlands that are effectively not used right now. Replace all the npc camps with new game mechanics, replace the quaggan island with a new game mechanic. There’s 3 areas on EBG and 3 areas on borderlands that are underutilized just off the top of my head. Even more areas could be thought of in the nooks of the maps.

Better yet, utilize these areas and do it dynamically based on the map player count so empty or lightly contested maps are not generating too much ppt.

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Posted by: Xsorus.2507

Xsorus.2507

Agree 100% with the original post.

PvP in Guild Wars 2 isn’t exactly the hottest thing in the first place, We basically got a kitten version of DAOC RvR system, at this point, the only thing it has over WAR at all is the fact that its 3 factions…

Think about that a second, Warhammer Online which we all agree wasn’t as good as DAOC, is still vastly superior to pretty much all of GW2 WvW system except for the 3 factions….

That should befuddle everyone here as to why they released the game like that..

Hell, you’d think they would of ended up making their Structured PvP much better since they came from GW as well….But nope..

Warhammer Online, hell SWTOR absolutely crushes this game in terms of Structured instanced pvp..

GW2 doesn’t really do anything better then anyone else..other then the fact that it is free.

Also, I agree with the fact that the whole “we didn’t know PvP was going to be popular” bull kitten needs to go the way of the dodo…Seriously….This is like the 10th bloody game that’s come out where the developer has said this crap, If you haven’t figured it out by now you’re either bloody stupid, or you’re lying through your teeth.

Maybe Camelot Unleashed will be good, Maybe ESO will be good….i don’t know…But currently GW2 and Anet ranks in the SWTOR department of hype train.

SWTOR and Warhammer Online were both more fun this then game….and people bashed the crap out of those games….I think GW2 deserves equal punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Xsorus/videos?view=0
Natures Ninja and Pain Inverter – Ranger PvP movies
http://www.twitch.tv/xsorovos

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Agree with most of what is said here. Its pretty lame that the feb patch and march patch was meant to be spvp and wvw focussed.

And yet in the patch there is only a new pvp map (nothing else and nothing at all for wvw) and yet more whole new types of content for pve.

So February = yet another pve patch. Even the big pvp/wvw patches of feb amd march are turning out to be pve patches.

GW2 = they only care about pve.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Lily.7341

Lily.7341

There’s not even a guild hall and all those cool features for guilds! :(

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Posted by: Raap.9065

Raap.9065

This is a pattern I noticed a long while ago, and is why I took a break from the game. I intended to come back this month for the WvW update, but, yeah, it got put in the backburner as expected.

Combined with their inability to fix the culling, unwillingness to fix game mechanics and just remove them instead (orbs), and now also the player cap reduction per WvW map... They should just be honest and say they can’t support a WvW community.

This post will probably get deleted...

Swift Mending – Guardian
Thorny Scrub – Thief
Desolation

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Posted by: Bedstain.6735

Bedstain.6735

I like WvW. The game is young so it can only get better.

Blackgate Elementalist….woohoo!
{{80 ele Soap 80 engi Flush}}

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Posted by: Sureshot.6725

Sureshot.6725

I like WvW. The game is young so it can only get better.

Same.

Not saying it is perfect as it has its issues, however, it is much better overall than DAoC and Warhammer Online imho. I won’t even include SWTOR in the mix as its world PvP was so horrible it got yanked with the exception of the deserted Tatooine area.

Anyway hopefully a new game will release soon and the ‘wanna be devs’ can go infest their forums with whining about everything that doesn’t meet their personal expectations.

Quite frankly a lot of the problems with WvW stem from its popularity. Those of us that appreciate GW2 will benefit from a smaller population and a better overall community.

(edited by Sureshot.6725)

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Posted by: volmok.3580

volmok.3580

I liked the OP post.
I have to say that I agree in most part, but that is why this is a forum so players can share their opinion.
I want to see more strategy involved in WvW, commanders to be voted by WvW players, more significant rewards (playing as support has zero reward right now, no badges for the selfless Guardian that heals and buffs everybody or for the healing specialized enginner).
A lot more things can be improved in WvW but the most important would have to be culling, commander system, winning a WvW week should reward players that were involved based on their activity (maybe related to the karma earned in WvW); I could go on, but I have a hunch that WvW has low priority at ANet offices

V.

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Posted by: ilmau.9781

ilmau.9781

March is near and I haven’t seen any news regarding WvW update -.-

March is a way too far away.

They must do something NOW.

It is really bad for Anet to give so few attention to the WWW comunity.
It s been month we ask for help there.

And now?

Lots of players and guilds are loosing intereset in www and actually quitting the game.

But yeah, we will have the TP Preview in a few days. How sad.

Epic fail coming soon for this game.

[Hell] Kresh Bloodghast
Seafarer’s Rest Alliance Leader – www.pevepe.net/gw2

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Posted by: nekos.2584

nekos.2584

March is near and I haven’t seen any news regarding WvW update -.-

March is a way too far away.

They must do something NOW.

It is really bad for Anet to give so few attention to the WWW comunity.
It s been month we ask for help there.

And now?

Lots of players and guilds are loosing intereset in www and actually quitting the game.

But yeah, we will have the TP Preview in a few days. How sad.

Epic fail coming soon for this game.

Just speaking for myself, i don’t think i will make it to the march update. This game is just bad on so many levels I’m literally bored with it after about a month… And this isn’t even touching the mountain of problems with the game.

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Posted by: Columba.9730

Columba.9730

honestly, i could almost live with the culling issues, if it weren’t for the perma stealth problems. that’s what makes me log off in disgust.

only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.

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Posted by: Elrond.9486

Elrond.9486

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

Some of this I agree with, some of it not so much.

Things I agree with and things that I don’t think need any elaboration upon: #1, #4, #5. I lied a bit and will say that I hope the new hires will come out of the woodwork and post on these forums. I would love to hear from them, see what they are working on, and engage in a conversation similar to what the Jons are doing for sPvP. That’s how you fix something that’s broken, not by remaining a deaf mute. (Also #4 is on the way to getting fixed, and I really like the sound of WvW-only skills to make it such that we don’t need 30 mesmers, or 30 eles, by placing key utility skills in the skill bracket.)

But I really don’t agree with #2 and #3 in full, at least.

#2:
For us, on Blackgate, guilds are recognized as are the commanders who don’t even need tags to lead: Smokee, Riven, Graphicardo, Sladie, etc. Greatly in fact. That banner in the sky? Is it KnT? Is it HB? Is it Urge? Is it Thai? Is it ICoa? Is it LotD? Is it GoF? Is it RK? Is it my tiny guild that no one knows about and I won’t tell anyone anything about? (At this point, even other servers know HB’s tag and run away from them.) (I hope I didn’t forget anyone… please don’t kill me!) I understand the view of the point that the game does not reward guilds with “things” for doing “guild things” and I do agree that it can be certainly worked on, but to say that Guilds don’t get recognized is a bit odd (especially since all of us at BG know your guild, RG). The game doesn’t need to tell me XYZ took PQR, I know and everyone on the map knows who took what by paying attention in TS, in map chat, and just by recognizing the tags running around. Even a ninja take is celebrated and recognized. I don’t see why my screen needs to be cluttered with announcements for something I’m already well aware of…

Do these guilds deserve a greater reward? I think so, yes. And I hope that (given the upcoming developments of guilds in general in the Feb patch, and the progression system in the March patch) they will get their just deserts. That said I don’t think that guild’s or their good commanders (and in this way I’m partially disagreeing with #1 as well) go unrecognized in the least.

#3:
Zergs are a big part of WvW, they are a big part of any large scale conflict, but I wouldn’t say or agree that the game has degenerated into just that. I don’t consider the 20 something people of HB that I usually run with a zerg, yet they will readily run into and fight said much larger zergs and shatter them. When big guilds fight big guilds, I don’t see this as ZvZ, I see this as coordinated teams vs. one another. There are videos of guilds and teams holding off stupidly uneven numbers with proper and coordinated team play, using choke points, using flanks. This is not zerg combat, this is tactical combat.

I can’t really say more than that and nothing will ever really change that people like numbers, and they feel safe in numbers even if its an uncoordinated mess. This is human nature: the more people around you, the less likely you are of getting hurt or killed. Uncapping AoE isn’t going to help this, its just going to make AoE spam all the more dominant (you can’t even get near a door during a siege before the fifty billion fireballs, swirls, and doom booms, turn you into pudding in three seconds flat) and I don’t see why 5 people should win against 30 if all they do is AoE spam just because AoE has no upper cap (can you imagine how stupid this would be with current gen thieves? They just stealth into a group and AoE daggerstorm everyone to death because they can). 5 people winning against 30 with good play (which people accomplish, though perhaps the disparity is not quite as large as 6:1) is what I want to see.

Wee, that was long.

There are many things that need fixing, addressing, and doing, but I don’t think WvW is as broken as you make it out to be (I stand by my regular statement that I make on our BG forums that the core of WvW is good, it just needs loving and the onus of this is on the devs… also I greatly agree with other who say that we need to organize a SotG or AMA at the very least, light a fire under their kitten so to speak) nor is it unsavable. Your image of what it might need to be may not be the reality of what we achieve but that is usually par for the course; we all have grand ideas that we think are what serve everyone best but we oft skirt the issue that opinions vary and our own are not the only ones.

Wow, that’s a great post. Pretty much everything I wanted to say.

Zeus Thorsson – Guardian
Silver Moon [MOON]
The Toast

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

I think it would really help if Anet would give us a heads up on the plans for the March PvP/WvW update. Right now everyone is in the dark and have no idea what Anet have in mind. And given their track record (WvW rating reset, dungeon way points, etc) a lot of us are worried about the huge differences, between what the players “want” and what the devs “think” are great ideas.

Communications are the key. The devs should give the players a head up on their ideas, and get the players approval/support/opinion, before they start spending actual man-hours on coding anything.

For example, they said that they are

“Exploring ways to help get more people playing WvW, as well as dealing with queue issues that come with those inherent issues of player population and demand.”

Well cool that sounds great in a general sense. But what actual ideas are being considered and what is being implemented? Are they actually good ideas? We players should be informed of their plans, give our opinions, before Anet spent man-hours on these ideas.

Do not waste man-hours on some idea, and then later found out that the players hate that idea, but that idea end up implementing anyways because of the man-hours already spent. Throwing good man-hour after bad man-hour will only disappoint the players.

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

(edited by CHIPS.6018)

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Posted by: Sleel.8365

Sleel.8365

I wish I had written this, but I couldn’t have said it better.

I completely agree the OP and his points.

“Only a WvW player has 10g in the bank and thinks he’s rich”.

I did when I first hit 10g. Then when I made 20g I thought I was swimming. I like to make my own gear cuz like the crafting and PvE stuff too, so am back down to 8g. But have a guildie who fracs and crawls alot, and when she told me her ascended back piece cost her 80g in comps….. I was disabused of the notion that I was rich. >.<

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Posted by: SoPP.7034

SoPP.7034

This thread resonates with me and I +1 the OP. I think many of us are frustrated with the lack of support for WvW.

I think what’s the biggest concern is not the posts here, but the many who have stopped posting altogether.

A warrior, a guardian, and an elementalist walk into an open field…
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”

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Posted by: jwburks.9735

jwburks.9735

WvW was kind of the whole reason I bought the game. Me and my fiancee played Warhammer for a few years, and she got addicted to open-world PvP. When that game went down the crapper (well, it kind of already was down the crapper, but it got flushed to the very bottom of the septic system, as it were), we got our PvP fix where we could until Guild Wars 2 was released. She told me, “It looks like Warhammer with a bigger budget!” At the time, I agreed. I wasn’t the jaded cynic then, that I am now.

We took our time with the game, because maybe in the back of our minds, we were trying to avoid being disappointed. But when we finally got ourselves into exotics (not as cheap or easy as people claim), we went out into WvW together. It was like being a kid excited for Christmas, but finding a stocking full of dog droppings, and a giant, steaming stool in the corner next to the cookies and milk. Now I am thinking Elder Scrolls Online is our last resort for good open-world PvP. I guess we’ll see. I don’t see this game ever being fixed, because the developers don’t really have any motivation to make that happen. To be honest, they don’t seem to really care that much about the game at all. So why should we?

We heard . . . we listened . . . we ignored.

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Posted by: Thresher.3049

Thresher.3049

I’ve given the original poster an up-vote, but if I’m honest all Anet really has to do is drag WvW across the line to the point that the people playing it break-even in cash, get rid of the bugs, exploits, have top-tier equipment available with the wvw currency (karma & and badges) and have server-wide objectives as a reason to punch each other over.

From there- we can actually play the game how we want and make up the reasons to play, as we see fit. DAOC did it for years, running on the inertia that it was mostly just fun to kill people… lots of people and there was some relatively tangible benefits to doing so with titles, realm abilities and so forth.
Those kind of things, you can add in over time and we’ll be happy. What will cause the WvW community as a whole to “loose their collective s…t” over is if you don’t acknowledge the effort many of us have put in since release…

If Anet says, “no we don’t care because its not fair to new people”, then you really have no idea of how a gaming community works, people learn from PLAYING with others and not a game company holding their hands every step of the way.

Pinot Noir (Necromancer) Pinot Blanc (Warrior)
KnT Blackgate

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Posted by: Eliandal.8735

Eliandal.8735

  1. #2 #2!!!!!

I don’t know why guild support is so shoddy – I wish we’d get a reason – but it’s never addressed.

I mean even simple things like the ability to regulate supply in a guild owned keep (which has been suggested over and over and over in the last 6 months) is never heard of again once it drops off the main page (Weekly?)

I’d also have to add the seemingly new old lag (In at start – then seemed to get better, and now is back with a vengeance) On a map that is limited to 500 combatants – there’s NO way we should be seeing lag that is worse than old DAOC relic raids from 11 years ago.

Don’t get me wrong – I love the game – but I still think it wasn’t ready – and frankly – still isn’t!

Cuthache | Ranger
OTG!
Yak’s Bend!

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Posted by: Columba.9730

Columba.9730

wvwvw has become thief wars. group after group of thieves taking out servers.

only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.

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Posted by: sostronk.8167

sostronk.8167

Well, Anet is struggling to bring out new PvE content as it is. Look at the February update, “repair some signs, gather some badges”. At this stage Im sure most players are well through the PvE content and have simply started grinding it. The majority have hit the end game and have no content to cater for them. If they don’t pull the stick out of their kitten Im sure we won’t have to worry about wvw not becoming what we had hoped, but whether this game would become what we had hoped.

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Posted by: Eclipses.7152

Eclipses.7152

All I know is from what I’ve seen so far, the WvW community will be mostly disappointed by these updates. I’m not sure about you guys, but I figured the March patch would be introducing new active abilities, ones that might be suited and tailored to WvW to bring in some interesting game play:

- An AoE that hit a non-negligible amount of people
- An active ability that gave you the ability to see through stealth for 5-10 seconds

things like that. Instead the abilities we’re going to be seeing are passive ones, like ‘carry more supply’. IDK, that just doesn’t seem interesting enough to draw people to WvW. Plus, we already have such a thing in the guild upgrade…

It just seems lame. Furthermore, their resistance to changing commander is absolute outrageous. Read the interview here:

http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/210/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson.aspx

There are about 3 good questions for changing Commander into something not totally ridiculous and he gives terrible answers to each one.

- They won’t make it Account bound because they want players to know the name of the Commander. Which is admirable, but it still keeps the Commander to only one of their characters. If they made it account bound, more than likely it’d be the GUILD that got recognition for having a few great commanders on, even if they were all the same person, so it really doesn’t change anything.

- It would be “hard” for them to take it away. No it wouldn’t be, so long as those who paid for it were returned their gold. At the very least open up new avenues to attain Commander (badges, kill, objective scores),

but nope:

- “It’s hard to gauge, because even that would not necessarily be the sign of a great player.”

So 100g, something that is totally irrelevant to being a great player in WvW is?

They’re so kitten backwards they aren’t even making sense.

Eclipses
The Royal Guard – http://theroyalguardclan.enjin.com
Isle of Janthir

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Posted by: Ariel Cor Leonis Inferi.2894

Ariel Cor Leonis Inferi.2894

Active ability that see through stealth? That is bad for thieves i mean really bad given their low armor and health pool.

Hopw that it wont be added in the “March” patch

Ded gaem

(edited by Ariel Cor Leonis Inferi.2894)

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Posted by: Eclipses.7152

Eclipses.7152

Active ability that see through stealth? That is bad for thieves i mean really bad given their low armor and health pool.

Hopw that it wont be added in the “March” patch

Low armor? They have medium armor, the highest endurance regen rate and more than one escape tool that does not involve stealth. There are classes with lower armor and just as low hp pool.

A WvW only ability that forced you to sacrifice a utility slot in order to see stealth for 5 seconds sounds like a balanced trade in my book.

Eclipses
The Royal Guard – http://theroyalguardclan.enjin.com
Isle of Janthir

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Posted by: Ariel Cor Leonis Inferi.2894

Ariel Cor Leonis Inferi.2894

So there’s no point using stealth then? Most stealth dont last for 5 seconds only the refuge thing.

Ded gaem

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Posted by: Eclipses.7152

Eclipses.7152

So there’s no point using stealth then?

Are you seriously arguing that there is no point to using stealth because someone, somewhere might have an ability to see you through stealth for FIVE seconds? There are such abilities in other MMO’s and it does not invalidate stealth there – it will not do it here either.

At the least it will stop thieves from being OP in WvW, at most it will make thieves rethink their gameplay a small amount. No difference from the impending AoE nerfs and the stupid gameplay changes they’ll bring for Eles. necros, engineers and the like.

My post was just an example anyway, Anet clearly has no intention of putting something fun and tactical in the game, preferring “mildly interesting”.

Eclipses
The Royal Guard – http://theroyalguardclan.enjin.com
Isle of Janthir

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Posted by: nekos.2584

nekos.2584

So there’s no point using stealth then?

Are you seriously arguing that there is no point to using stealth because someone, somewhere might have an ability to see you through stealth for FIVE seconds? There are such abilities in other MMO’s and it does not invalidate stealth there – it will not do it here either.

At the least it will stop thieves from being OP in WvW, at most it will make thieves rethink their gameplay a small amount. No difference from the impending AoE nerfs and the stupid gameplay changes they’ll bring for Eles. necros, engineers and the like.

My post was just an example anyway, Anet clearly has no intention of putting something fun and tactical in the game, preferring “mildly interesting”.

See stealth should be a passive passive ability that’s up 100% for the time for 1 or 2 classes, Ranger IMHO.

That being said there wont be a see stealth ability of any kind and if there ever is Anet will give it to thieves and add a 30K AE proc to it that goes off every time any one goes near the thief… Because Every one else needs to learn to play and it’s to hard for thieves already since they have to press 1 or even 2 of their Iwin buttons.

Anet is literally running this game into the ground and i have a feeling it’s intentional. GW2 is a box sales game and the less people that continue to play the better / cheaper it is for Anet. All hey need to do is keep some people interested and hype up the next expansion to reel customers back in.

(edited by nekos.2584)

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Posted by: Columba.9730

Columba.9730

Active ability that see through stealth? That is bad for thieves i mean really bad given their low armor and health pool.

Hopw that it wont be added in the “March” patch

Thieves don’t have low armor. See stealth skills would be terrific. Try might actually balance stealth.

only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.

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Posted by: Columba.9730

Columba.9730

So there’s no point using stealth then? Most stealth dont last for 5 seconds only the refuge thing.

Wrong. Perma stealthing thieves are rampant.

only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.

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Posted by: enji.7459

enji.7459

Anet is literally running this game into the ground and i have a feeling it’s intentional. GW2 is a box sales game and the less people that continue to play the better / cheaper it is for Anet. All hey need to do is keep some people interested and hype up the next expansion to reel customers back in.

With Anet’s complete lack of communication towards WvW in the several months since release I am inclined to agree. I’d even go as far as to start to wonder if all the “support” and instant patches during beta were just to encourage people to think this game would be supported more. Release hit and kitten went downhill starting with Orr quests bugged for weeks, then orb hackings, etc. The quest in Orr escorting the lady to the gorilla veteran was back in the game after 5 months when they patched in January. I saw it run about a day and haven’t seen it again.

(edited by enji.7459)

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Posted by: Slamz.5376

Slamz.5376

Lack of depth/consequence is, I think, the biggest long-term problem and the one least likely to be solved because it requires the most effort.

“More loot” is not really an incentive and in fact it’s a DISincentive for new players, who now must play even longer before they reach the new bar and become competitive, so that’s not the type of depth/consequence I’m looking for.

Nail on head is that when you log in tomorrow, there will be no sign of anything you did today. In most cases the things you took will have flipped overnight. They may be fully upgraded but only because it got lost, retaken and rebuilt while you were offline. Nothing you or your guild does has any lasting effect. You could all quit on Wednesday and by Friday night there will be no indication your guild ever existed or did anything.

That’s kind of depressing in a game we sink so much time into. By comparison, EVE can give guilds things that take a lot of time and effort to build up but also takes a lot of time and effort to tear down. Shadowbane aimed for this as well. Your guild was a real thing with real presence and things you accomplished today could last for a while.

That’s not what WvW is and I agree with the OP that it won’t ever become that. It’s a neat little mini-game that ArenaNet built on the side and that’s how its been treated.

Camelot Unchained – from the makers of DAOC
A game that’s 100% WvW
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

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Posted by: Slamz.5376

Slamz.5376

Anet is literally running this game into the ground and i have a feeling it’s intentional. GW2 is a box sales game and the less people that continue to play the better / cheaper it is for Anet. All hey need to do is keep some people interested and hype up the next expansion to reel customers back in.

Well, in theory the cash store would be a way for them to keep making money off of people who keep logging in every day and playing but in practice there’s nothing in the cash store that tempts me in the least. I bought keys one time and never will again because most of what it did was give me a bunch of junk that’s still sitting in my bank taking up space.

I dunno what the solution is there but I have wondered the same thing you bring up — that Anet may be letting the game shed players because there’s not enough money in keeping them, versus just bringing them all back for the next box expansion.

Personally, I would pay $10/month for WvW alone if it could be expanded and turned into a long term game with depth and consequence.

Camelot Unchained – from the makers of DAOC
A game that’s 100% WvW
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

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Posted by: Slamz.5376

Slamz.5376

Another thought about guilds in WvW:

My guild has actually split into about 3 parts. We still use the same forums, Teamspeak, etc, but we all fly different tags because it makes more sense to have 3 guilds of 30 players each rather than one guild of 90. You get 2 research slots for acquiring new WvW stuff like guild catapults and buffs. You CAN spend influence to hurry things along but you’ll get a whole lot more bang-for-the-buck if you split your guild up and research 6 things at a time across 3 guilds rather than 2 things at a time. This also lets us build up more catapults and golems for a rainy day, not to mention we can now run +5 supply buffs at three different camps (or 1 camp every day without having to spend influence hurrying research).

It’s just one more way this game is anything but “guild wars”. I’m kinda bummed to see my guild flying three different flags but I can’t deny the sense of doing so. In WvW your guild should split up into multiple guilds because that’s what the game rewards.

Camelot Unchained – from the makers of DAOC
A game that’s 100% WvW
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

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Posted by: nekos.2584

nekos.2584

Anet is literally running this game into the ground and i have a feeling it’s intentional. GW2 is a box sales game and the less people that continue to play the better / cheaper it is for Anet. All hey need to do is keep some people interested and hype up the next expansion to reel customers back in.

Well, in theory the cash store would be a way for them to keep making money off of people who keep logging in every day and playing but in practice there’s nothing in the cash store that tempts me in the least. I bought keys one time and never will again because most of what it did was give me a bunch of junk that’s still sitting in my bank taking up space.

I dunno what the solution is there but I have wondered the same thing you bring up — that Anet may be letting the game shed players because there’s not enough money in keeping them, versus just bringing them all back for the next box expansion.

Personally, I would pay $10/month for WvW alone if it could be expanded and turned into a long term game with depth and consequence.

Oh there is plenty of money to spend on the game. The question is how much of it is Anet willing to spend / take out of their profits to fix the game ? I would bet it’s as little as possible.

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Posted by: jwburks.9735

jwburks.9735

Love how this has been derailed into an anti-thief thread. Don’t we already have a crusade against stealth in the official Thief forum?

We heard . . . we listened . . . we ignored.

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Posted by: Eclipses.7152

Eclipses.7152

Love how this has been derailed into an anti-thief thread. Don’t we already have a crusade against stealth in the official Thief forum?

It hasn’t derailed at all. In fact, that line of conversation ended and YOU are the one who brought it back up.

But I digress. Just warning you guys, don’t get your hopes up for March.

Eclipses
The Royal Guard – http://theroyalguardclan.enjin.com
Isle of Janthir

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Posted by: LeCreaux.3087

LeCreaux.3087

I read the whole thing and have mixed opinions. I agree that commander ability should be based on WvW success, that’s definite. I agree that it would be more motivating (and fun) if guilds’ names were shown on anything they’ve claimed instead of just a banner.

While I do agree that WvW favors zerg-vs-zerg I don’t think it takes away from the fun of WvW. Mass is a factor in actual warfighting, it just is what it is. It stinks when a “commander” keeps throwing a smaller mass at a bigger mass when they should avoid it. But that goes back to the first point…commander ability should be awarded based on victories and not income.

Either way, I enjoy WvW and the anonymous nature of it in GW2. It really comes down to whether or not you enjoy that kind of PvP for its own sake or if you need more personalized rewards (i.e. recognition, notoriety, whatever).

(edited by LeCreaux.3087)

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Posted by: Thresher.3049

Thresher.3049

But I digress. Just warning you guys, don’t get your hopes up for March.

Think most of the wvw community is used to being underwhelmed for the last 7 months, its just a case of ‘how much’ they will put up with and for how long.

I mean these guys are a subsidiary of NCSoft, which is very big company and they’re not exactly poor or unsuccessful! So if someone had to stump up a bit of cash to get something across the line with the potential to recoup and make more, it is there.

Pinot Noir (Necromancer) Pinot Blanc (Warrior)
KnT Blackgate

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Posted by: salluks.6017

salluks.6017

I agreee with most of your points, but the bigger priority is Nightcapping/ stale rankings/gameplay than commander books.

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Posted by: LeCreaux.3087

LeCreaux.3087

I agreee with most of your points, but the bigger priority is Nightcapping/ stale rankings/gameplay than commander books.

In a 24-hour global MMO what you’re calling “nightcapping” is simply normal game play. If anything, losing territory overnight mixes things up. It would be kind of boring if things rarely changed hands. I don’t think that one is ever going to change, much less be a priority to change.

The rankings, however, are probably going to get even more stable now that transfers are no longer free and that’s going to get stale fast for whichever server is always on the short end of it. I think they should ALWAYS switch the first and last place servers no matter what (except the overall first and last of course).

The “commander” thing just doesn’t make sense to me. Once you have that icon it should indicate you have WvW experience. Right now it’s too often just players wanting to tell others what to do. A lot of us simply ignore them until they we see them earn it. I’d really like to have confidence in that blue dot when I see it.

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

I mean these guys are a subsidiary of NCSoft, which is very big company and they’re not exactly poor or unsuccessful! So if someone had to stump up a bit of cash to get something across the line with the potential to recoup and make more, it is there.

NCSoft appears clearly to be taking an excessive portion of the games revenue and not letting anet have enough to properly support the game. They clearly don’t have the resources to properly support it.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: CrimsonNeonite.1048

CrimsonNeonite.1048

It feels as though this new culling tweak get’s worse over time.

Scrubio
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.

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Posted by: Neural.1824

Neural.1824

WARNING: LONG POST, but worth it. see TL;DR for major points

TL;DR:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

I thought the commander tag was a great idea until I learned it was pretty much a gem-store trinket.
If they were serious about commanders, there would be requirements, as people have said. The ability to lead needs a track record of success, but also a show of support. We already “represent” our guilds in the game, it would be nice to have an option to “represent” a given individual who we feel is a qualified commander. The more people who support you, the faster you can obtain the commander tag.

I agree with #2 a lot. It would be nice if there was more than a pretty flag to fly if your guild achieved an objective in WvW. For starters, the servers are already listed based on their WvW performance. Why not do the same for guilds? Most objectives of x type taken, most kills, etc. Rewards would be great if they could benefit all guild sizes. My guild is 3 people (fear us!). We aren’t big enough to zerg, we’re primarily PvE players, and by most standards we aren’t “uber” enough to be recognized. It would be nice if the solo/small-group types could get recognition for things like taking out control points. Take the control point, your logo goes on the banner, and throw in +1% guild influence for 15minutes or something.

Just some thoughts from a WvW noob. I was wondering if it was just being new that had me wondering about these things, but seeing a number of the replies, plus the original post, it’s nice to know I’m not just imagining things.

Where are my gem sales? I want gem sales! Nerf EVERYTHING!

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Posted by: CrimsonNeonite.1048

CrimsonNeonite.1048

One more thing about morning/night capping, it’s frustrating to see almost everything reset that you or others have spent time and money on but limiting the population wouldn’t be a right move, it would be better to make off peak capping less effective like increasing the point tick interval at certain hours until the afternoon perhaps.

Scrubio
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.

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Posted by: Turkman.1089

Turkman.1089

I agree with many of the OPs thoughts, but not all.

1) I don’t see the commander being purchaseable not as a big problem (Well aside from the fact that you can’t really earn 100g by playing WvW if you don’t have a guild sponsoring your commander; but that belongs to point 4)

This may come from a subjective point of view from my own server. We don’t “suffer” from too many commanders running around doing stupid things. If anything, we have too few commanders willing to actually turn on their headlight.

Of course there are some commanders, who are better than others, but generally I’m always relieved when I see any commander about, rather than all the people spread out over the map doing their own thing. So, to me even a poor commander is better than none, which is the case too often. This, however, might be different on higher tiers (we are pretty much in the middle of the ranking).

Nevertheless, I agree that commander should be purchaseable with a WvW inherent currency, like badges, for instance (That would at least require you to have spent some time in WvW before becoming commander)

2) I agree that the incentives for having a guild are not that big (Not only in WvW but in the game generally;) and could be improved. I don’t see that as a major issue, though.

3) I also agree that the limit of AOE targets is ridiculous. And from what I’ve read, they are planning on nerfing AOE rather than buffing it, so that’s obviously a view that is not shared at all by ANet.

What is more, I think that structures are way to easily conquered. The time it takes to burst through a wall/gate should be significantly increased, thus leading to more actual PVP fights, which there are too little of.

In addition, I feel like siege equipment needs to be buffed so that it does more damage on players. The non-upgraded version of the arrow cart is next to useless. With both my Ele and Guardian with WvW standard PVT gear and reasonable survivability builds, I hardly notice being hit by a regular arrow cart. This must be increased significantly, so that structures become more easily defensible.

Also, the line of sight “Bug” when defending from the battlements of a tower/keep need to go. As it’s now it’s actually easier to do damage for the attackers by laying aoe on top of the battlements than it is for the defenders. Defenders more often than not need to jump onto the edge of the battlements to get some damage down onto the attackers. And more often than not some clever guy pulls you down from there and the zerg eats you alive. This cannot, nay must not, be working as intended.

4) The lack of rewards in WvW is appalling. There is fun, sure. But from a character development perspective there is nothing to be had in WvW. If you’re playing actively and buy siege & upgrades, you make zero money in WvW. There is only one set of items available for badges and with the abysmal drop rate this is only available for the most hardcore of players.

If you want to try out a different build/itemset you are forced to do PVE, because only there you earn the necessary coin to buy anything on the TP or you are forced to grind dungeons to get the gear you want. And getting gear through dungeons is infinitely easier than through WvW-badges. Yesterday I did all three paths of AC for the first time (Not a big Dungeon fan, generally). It took about 2 hours altogether, didn’t take the time exactly. But afterwards I had already enough AC tokens to buy me a piece of exotic armour. So after a week or two of doing all paths daily I’d probably have a whole set of said dungeon.
After 2 hours of WvW I’d probably have enough badges to buy a catapult and an arrow cart, but would be nowhere near to being able to purchase a piece of armour.

Why is that so inbalanced?
Why is there only one set of items available through badges, generally?
I sincerely hope that the rewards of WvW are adjusted to match those of PVE dungeons, or at least to be brought somewhere in the vicinity of them. Because as it is now, if you want to have change regarding your character’s equipment beyond the karma items, there’s only PVE.

5)
I also feel like WvW is, together with sPVP, the stepchild of GW2-development. I understand that PVE is the predominant playstyle in most MMOs and that this section will always see the most novelties, but the perceived lack of improvement in this magnificent sector of the game is disheartening to say the least. For many of us WvW is the sole reason to play the game, because to be honest, other than that there is only PVE (s/tPVP seems to be in an even more desolate state than WvW) and there are other games out there that do that better. Right now, I think the only reason why the whole WvW-Community hasn’t abandoned the game altogether yet, is the lack of a real alternative. But I really hope that the promised update in March will be something huge and bring real improvements.

Abaddon’s Mouth
Renth/Eirik
[DP] Diamond Pirates