Guild Wars 2

Wen Jie.8920:

Let’s be realistic. Everybody on tc claims that winning by this much isn’t fun. but that’s not quite true, is it? tc has more people on this week than in any of the previous two weeks. Even though it may not be fun for the guilds, or the people who care enough to post on the forums, for the rest, for the majority of players, playing is so much more fun and easy when you know you can’t fail.

The amount of QQ in this thread is unbearable. I’ll provide the inverse of your statement for you:

SoS has less people on this week than in any of the previous two weeks.

Know yourself before you claim to know your enemy.

MeerKat.3792:

Asudementio.8526:

MeerKat.3792:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/203/6akv.jpg/

Very classy from NAGA, trolling CD north camp. There’s a lot of difference in being defeated and getting stomped with multiple concussion. You just can’t learn anything after that.

Could you be more specific with the circumstances you are talking about? pm me if you have to, i am just curious because there have been times where i have set up an impromptu fortified defense of the northern camp to just deny it from my enemies.

Not sure how more specific i can be. TC mega zerg just turn everything Blue in CD border by capping that camp and these guys proceeds to build 2 rams and a catapult right at the portal just for the fun of it.

And what is the problem again?

Hickeroar.9734:

Wen Jie.8920:

Let’s be realistic. Everybody on tc claims that winning by this much isn’t fun. but that’s not quite true, is it? tc has more people on this week than in any of the previous two weeks. Even though it may not be fun for the guilds, or the people who care enough to post on the forums, for the rest, for the majority of players, playing is so much more fun and easy when you know you can’t fail.

The amount of QQ in this thread is unbearable. I’ll provide the inverse of your statement for you:

SoS has less people on this week than in any of the previous two weeks.

Know yourself before you claim to know your enemy.

I’m not here for an argument, but… why would SoS have less people this week than last week, when we were facing SoR?

Wen Jie.8920:

Hickeroar.9734:

Wen Jie.8920:

Let’s be realistic. Everybody on tc claims that winning by this much isn’t fun. but that’s not quite true, is it? tc has more people on this week than in any of the previous two weeks. Even though it may not be fun for the guilds, or the people who care enough to post on the forums, for the rest, for the majority of players, playing is so much more fun and easy when you know you can’t fail.

The amount of QQ in this thread is unbearable. I’ll provide the inverse of your statement for you:

SoS has less people on this week than in any of the previous two weeks.

Know yourself before you claim to know your enemy.

I’m not here for an argument, but… why would SoS have less people this week than last week, when we were facing SoR?

An improvement in your population by your logic that participation= fun would mean that despite any SoS posts saying this match up was not fun SoS would actually find this match up fun.

No, Wenn Jie is right. I know the professional WvW community on TC hates this matchup.

That’s why we haven’t seen too many single guild zergs since Friday and Saturday (TSL and ZN, awesome fights!)

Last night, I saw mishmash mobs that numbered over 50 people. It’s clear that the casual players on TC are out in force.

We don’t hold anyone responsible and I’m sure that would be true of either SoS or CD were facing this kind of matchup. If CD took IoJ’s place in that matchup or we took Kaineng’s?
There would be shameless conga line dance parties, circling SM all night long!

I remember T4 on Friday nights after our Oceanics started logging on. It was an endurance test to see how much time we could spend playing “whack-a-mole” on our home BL as we ran in a roving pack between Lowlands, South camp, and Vale.

Let’s keep it friendly here. No one from TC is the problem, it’s the system that is failing us all.

Wen Jie.8920:

Let’s be realistic...playing is so much more fun and easy when you know you can’t fail.

Absolutely.

Well, that said, I like pie. Apple. Mmm. It totally should be higher req than Level 10.

And Chris is right, matchup system fail. Why in their minds they figured jumping servers up and down was going to be exciting is past me. I was all green up/red down, but nah, too simple.

But really. Pie.

Asudementio.8526:

Wen Jie.8920:

Hickeroar.9734:

Wen Jie.8920:

Let’s be realistic. Everybody on tc claims that winning by this much isn’t fun. but that’s not quite true, is it? tc has more people on this week than in any of the previous two weeks. Even though it may not be fun for the guilds, or the people who care enough to post on the forums, for the rest, for the majority of players, playing is so much more fun and easy when you know you can’t fail.

The amount of QQ in this thread is unbearable. I’ll provide the inverse of your statement for you:

SoS has less people on this week than in any of the previous two weeks.

Know yourself before you claim to know your enemy.

I’m not here for an argument, but… why would SoS have less people this week than last week, when we were facing SoR?

An improvement in your population by your logic that participation= fun would mean that despite any SoS posts saying this match up was not fun SoS would actually find this match up fun.

Find this more fun than the (terrible) previous matchup? why not.

Had some good duels today in tc with a few guys from each server. To bad SoS ruined it by repeatedly coming in with 5+ mid fights. Show some class. Better yet act like you have it.

Wen Jie.8920:

Hickeroar.9734:

Wen Jie.8920:

Let’s be realistic. Everybody on tc claims that winning by this much isn’t fun. but that’s not quite true, is it? tc has more people on this week than in any of the previous two weeks. Even though it may not be fun for the guilds, or the people who care enough to post on the forums, for the rest, for the majority of players, playing is so much more fun and easy when you know you can’t fail.

The amount of QQ in this thread is unbearable. I’ll provide the inverse of your statement for you:

SoS has less people on this week than in any of the previous two weeks.

Know yourself before you claim to know your enemy.

I’m not here for an argument, but… why would SoS have less people this week than last week, when we were facing SoR?

Because you consistently ticked higher last week than this week, while going up against the #1 server. The difference is that TC comparatively left SoS alone last week and concentrated on honing our skill against SoR. That’s the nature of TC, and we pretty much did that against FA the week before.

Now that you’re the primary target, your population seems to be much lower than the past two weeks. /shrug

I’m not gonna deny, though, that you guys have had pretty unfair matchups the last three weeks. I’d take my toys and go home if we had to face SoR for three weeks straight, too. It’s only “educational” to a point. After a while it just comes down to an insurmountable population gap.

TY for that awesome fight in front of Overlook watch. I was that warrior, and my buddy was the guardian. You guys really made it difficult for us to defend that one door at that time.

Anyway, I’m with my special pet grub. /salute.

Score update.

Wen Jie.8920:

Find this more fun than the (terrible) previous matchup? why not.

Because there’s freakin’ nothing to do.

Sorry Wen Jie but those “numbers” you are seeing are Fairweathers, Alts, and Map Completionists for the most part.

As someone from TC this match bites.

Listen to Chris he has a much better grasp on the situation than you.
(except for thinking Hickeroar’s post was yours)

Hickeroar.9734:

After a while it just comes down to an insurmountable population gap.

You sir, have just defined World vs World on the macro scale.

Hickeroar.9734:

Because you consistently ticked higher last week than this week, while going up against the #1 server. The difference is that TC comparatively left SoS alone last week and concentrated on honing our skill against SoR. That’s the nature of TC, and we pretty much did that against FA the week before.

We were not ticking higher last week than this week, but even if we are, you are by even more, which proves nothing. The tick could be you having more people, us having less, or most likely, both. Is it that implausible that the pugs, who are the majority of your server, just like they are ours, like winning more than losing? Our population is lower than it was last week for this reason, and yours is certainly higher.

*If you look at my original post, I said that I knew that the guilds and other people who care enough to post on the forums from tc hate this matchup. But these people aren’t the majority of your server. People wvw for fun, and the pugs on your server would not be swarming every map if they did not find it fun. *

WyldKat.4712:

Finger! Moon!

No more detail fuss. Think of the kitties.

Ohhhhhhhh those little kitties are soo CUTE!!!

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Wen Jie.8920:

Find this more fun than the (terrible) previous matchup? why not.

Because there’s freakin’ nothing to do.

Sorry Wen Jie but those “numbers” you are seeing are Fairweathers, Alts, and Map Completionists for the most part.

As someone from TC this match bites.

Listen to Chris he has a much better grasp on the situation than you.
(except for thinking Hickeroar’s post was yours)

Yeah.

I know several of my CD friends have whispered to ask: this explains why, as soon as a tower or keep flips on a non-EBG map, all of a sudden it seems like 50 TC show up. You have the map competitionists and the karma/exp trains for underlevels… and then the addicts.

You have to understand that we have, at almost any given time, at least 150 people with an (unhealthy) WvW addiction logged in. Some of them are idling, others pretending to PvE. EBG has a queue. People notice the flip from the MOS map or someone on mumble exclaims, “there must be a fight!” and then everyone shows up.

Many times to find only 10 people. And no, 50 Toasters were not necessary, but here they are. And there’s a thing to be had.

And that’s why you’re not seeing guild groups, but just a random mashup of TC tags.

And it has little to do with anything but the WvW population disparity and this matchup algorithm. It’s nothing CD or SoS has control over – except to hit things fast, hard and keep moving. SoS has been doing this for a few weeks now and are pretty spectacular about it. A large enough group? Maybe siege up and see how long you can hold. But those 50 TC are still going to show up.

I opened a book and sat my character in one of the Bay keeps this weekend. I sentried that thing for 5 hours. Nobody ever knocked on the door.

It is making our large base of WvW addicts twitchy.

And then they get bored. And they show up here. Like me, I’ve never been this social on the forums before, but it’s tangentially related to WvW and I just need a hit…

Yeah, I wouldn’t worry or read into this matchup too much.

Because ANet.

First, some of the WvWvW zerging on TC side is probably due to the unbalanced match up. Not a lot of risk in zerging right now. (Not that there ever is, but you get my point).

Second, some of the WvWvW stuff is due to the relative low quality of dragon bash. TC is still a fairly PvE centric server. Even we can see that this one is a grindfest.

Third, last night I got into the CD borderlands and the SoS borderlands without a single queue. That almost never happens. So some of it may be in your head.

coke.8509:

Had some good duels today in tc with a few guys from each server. To bad SoS ruined it by repeatedly coming in with 5+ mid fights. Show some class. Better yet act like you have it.

I agree with you. Bad manners, ill duel you on behalf of SoS if you’re still looking for some 1v1z.

AlfieStowers.4219:

coke.8509:

Had some good duels today in tc with a few guys from each server. To bad SoS ruined it by repeatedly coming in with 5+ mid fights. Show some class. Better yet act like you have it.

I agree with you. Bad manners, ill duel you on behalf of SoS if you’re still looking for some 1v1z.

would love too, ill send u a message in game. Glad to see some honor on the server

Reiko.1560:

…why are you looking for duels in WvW and expect people to leave your fight alone if they see you? Why don’t you queue for spvp?

Anybody else having flashbacks to recent matchups with FA? grin I mean, good flashbacks. Not bad flashbacks. Or the drug flashbacks. The bad drug flashbacks. Something flashy.

That’s like asking the sky why it’s up.

Because it’s hard to sleep in with no roof.

I duel in both sPvP and WvW and like most prefer WvW. But yeah. Guess depends where you are dueling. If was fight club then it shouldn’t be a problem having duels. It doesn’t disturb anyone and it is out of the way but if you are roaming and you have a 1v1 and another 3 join in you’re dead. Risks of roaming solo.

coke.8509:

Had some good duels today in tc with a few guys from each server. To bad SoS ruined it by repeatedly coming in with 5+ mid fights. Show some class. Better yet act like you have it.

How dare we come in and PvP in WvW. Unless you were behind the windmill, I don’t want to hear it.

For the people who are saying how TC has more people on than ever…let me say this…only maybe 2 or 3 times so far this week have I ever encountered a queue, and mostly that’s in EB. Instead of hating on each other for one reason for another for w/e reason that is due to this match up…maybe everyone who wants to QQ another server…plz go find the WvW dev and take it to them for creating match ups like this…

To be fair SoS will have less people as the week goes on simply because of fairweathers. Every server suffers from this to some degree

But that same rule applies to TC. Because of fairweathers we will likely have more population joining WvW simply because we are winning. Its going to happen not really much we can do about it.

coke.8509:

Had some good duels today in tc with a few guys from each server. To bad SoS ruined it by repeatedly coming in with 5+ mid fights. Show some class. Better yet act like you have it.

Thanks for the duels. Maybe next time you or the thief will be able to beat me.
I don’t think it’s worth writing on forums you were interfered in 1v1. It is WvW.

Also I think you need more practice though before you want to start calling people baddies on a server. I dueled you and the thief 6 times all up and only once I needed to step my game up.

To be honest, I was reducing my WvW hrs played during the SoS, SBI, CD weeks as I do not like that style of play. ( oceanic hours)

I massively increased my play hours vs SoR/TC and again this week vs TC. I have no issue with people who are doing the reverse, we are all gamers looking to enjoy the game in our own ways.

A couple of thousand hours enjoyed in GW2 shows they are doing some things right for me anyway.

I see no point in entering WvW. If we bust our humps to keep just what we have in EB, we gain points and still get crushed by huge zergs. Why would I want that? The last two weeks my guild has filled keeps with seige and owned Veloka most of the time. Why? All that effort, we lose and we STILL get put up against larger population servers to waste another week. So why? Why keep trying? So I start leveling an alt. Give the game maybe the next two weeks to fix itself.

Found the guild leader for FF. It’s been handled.

MikeB.3857:

I see no point in entering WvW. If we bust our humps to keep just what we have in EB, we gain points and still get crushed by huge zergs. Why would I want that? The last two weeks my guild has filled keeps with seige and owned Veloka most of the time. Why? All that effort, we lose and we STILL get put up against larger population servers to waste another week. So why? Why keep trying? So I start leveling an alt. Give the game maybe the next two weeks to fix itself.

I know the feel mate. I have my fair share of upgrading veloka and overlook too. With CD kicked off the map, TC’s full focus is obviously on us. You have to admit that the last 2 days of holding overlook during EU prime Zombie Coast dropped a lot of bags and badges and they keep coming! It totally paid off imo.

On a serious note, CD where are you! We can share the pain together meng.

Thanks for training our militia RE and other TC guilds on SoS tonight!

I miss T4 threads.

Aieo.2815:

I know the feel mate. I have my fair share of upgrading veloka and overlook too. With CD kicked off the map, TC’s full focus is obviously us. You have to admit that the last 2 days of holding overlook during EU prime Zombie Coast dropped a lot of bags and badges and they keep coming! It totally paid off imo.

On a serious note, CD where are you! We can share the pain together meng.

We were there today, here is how it went:
Started breakout: got wall to 30%, 60 man TC zerg comes along wipes siegerazer, and the 10 people there within minutes.

I decide a different route, build a treb at spawn and open up keep. We manage to steal it. Then we take all our towers back.
60 man TC zerg shows up with, builds golems right in front of the keep (because there’s just that many of them) takes it we couldn’t beat them back.

The said 60 man zerg takes the rest of the map shortly thereafter.
We try again… we take the keep first (same treb), and branch out to 3 more towers.
SoS zerg makes an appearance … IN OUR CORNER… we were dumbfounded, wtf was going on? You took golanta and left, we were left drooling trying to figure out wtf was that (you were kicked off the map atm).

40 man TC zerg shows up wipes the group of 8 we had at klovan, builds golems by jerrifers, proceeds to break the gate down with their head loosing a good 15 in the process because there wasno strategy, tried or anything, they just drowned us in their bodies.

We lose the map. That’s when I went home from work …

Hope that gives you an idea, 10 of us took things over and over and we were met with odds of 4 – 6 : 1

Kinda want SoR back now.

This week is pretty boring lol. I guess we finally understand how SoR feels now. Except even worse.

Excalibur.9748:

Kinda want SoR back now.

This week is pretty boring lol. I guess we finally understand how SoR feels now. Except even worse.

I could have swore last week TC was complaining about how OP SoR was.

OOH-RA! TC get some!

Le Rooster.8715:

Excalibur.9748:

Kinda want SoR back now.

This week is pretty boring lol. I guess we finally understand how SoR feels now. Except even worse.

I could have swore last week TC was complaining about how OP SoR was.

All the fairweathers come out when you have 4 to 5 times the numbers of the other servers. I still /laugh when people run into their tower from 4 people just so they can sit on their arrow cart and try to kill us…

If only there was PvP in my PvP

Aieo.2815:

On a serious note, CD where are you! We can share the pain together meng.

Mostly hanging out in the spawn. Every time I venture out to try cap something as easy as the north supply camp in home borderlands all I see is this.

Atrophied.8725:

I hope CD and SoS are taking this week to learn from TC so they can improve, not just sitting back and letting the score run out.
From what I saw while commanding on TCbl last night:
Wear more bunker-type gear. If you’re dying, add more pvt.
You stack well, CD, but then you don’t move! Mean, I appreciate you standing in all my AoEs, and your retal stacking kinda hurts, but it doesn’t win you fights.

A higher numerical world score does not mean TC is better, it simply means they have the bodies available to field larger groups on a 10 to 1 ratio for capturing points.

Despite that, nothing quite more bizarre than seeing a group of 15-20 TC struggle in capturing a supply camp (in which the guards still down several of them!). This is something I’ve never seen, usually the ‘higher’ tier servers like Maguuma or Yaks Bend are good not simply because they can only field zergs, but because the players were high quality and strong opponents. Whereas TC doesn’t appear to fight well in any situation, and victory only comes due to overwhelming the enemy with sheer numbers. When they’re not in a capture zone outnumbering their opponents 10 to 1, roaming / groups of TC are bag farming opportunities.

Not a good strategy to be known for, and certainly not something CD or SoS want to glean from TC. You can keep it.

Altie.4571:

We were there today, here is how it went:
Started breakout: got wall to 30%, 60 man TC zerg comes along wipes siegerazer, and the 10 people there within minutes.

I decide a different route, build a treb at spawn and open up keep. We manage to steal it. Then we take all our towers back.
60 man TC zerg shows up with, builds golems right in front of the keep (because there’s just that many of them) takes it we couldn’t beat them back.

The said 60 man zerg takes the rest of the map shortly thereafter.
We try again… we take the keep first (same treb), and branch out to 3 more towers.
SoS zerg makes an appearance … IN OUR CORNER… we were dumbfounded, wtf was going on? You took golanta and left, we were left drooling trying to figure out wtf was that (you were kicked off the map atm).

40 man TC zerg shows up wipes the group of 8 we had at klovan, builds golems by jerrifers, proceeds to break the gate down with their head loosing a good 15 in the process because there wasno strategy, tried or anything, they just drowned us in their bodies.

We lose the map. That’s when I went home from work …

Hope that gives you an idea, 10 of us took things over and over and we were met with odds of 4 – 6 : 1

When we took our keep back the first time we killed the 3 golems they just left there. Then when TC finally came for Jer, they went with the usual Super rams on the gate method. No match for the super Ac I was patiently waiting on. So they went, took Gol and supplied up. Off in the corner where I could not see/reach them, they switched to the 3 golem attack on the one thing they didn’t own. You guys sure do like your Golems.

Le Rooster.8715:

Excalibur.9748:

Kinda want SoR back now.

This week is pretty boring lol. I guess we finally understand how SoR feels now. Except even worse.

I could have swore last week TC was complaining about how OP SoR was.

I don’t know.

I had a lot of fun last week when up against SoR.

Atrophied.8725:

I hope CD and SoS are taking this week to learn from TC so they can improve, not just sitting back and letting the score run out.

No thanks.

The other night we ran across a 15 or so TC group near the north camp but we only had 5 people in our group so we moved south a bit towards the skritt caves. Instead of chasing us, they took the high route so now they are overlooking us from the top of the cliff. Our mesmer pulls down their commander and all but two of them follow him like lemmings to his death.

That was hands down the best thing I’ve seen in months.

Aieo.2815:

Thanks for training our militia RE and other TC guilds on SoS tonight!

+1. We had a couple decent wipes and was able to rally people into ts3 to get things started. I am sure you all in the TC zerg were thinking free badges (especially on the Bluelake push) but wanted to prove a point to everyone what the new meta is since ac buff etc. It was helpful I hope to majority of miltia that came out and watched the mechanics that RE/TC friends use when stacking/regrouping veil bombing etc. Thanks for the fights.

Cheers

Luvpie

I think TC should just stop Using Arrowcarts. That might help the odds out.

MeerKat.3792:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/203/6akv.jpg/

Very classy from NAGA, trolling CD north camp. There’s a lot of difference in being defeated and getting stomped with multiple concussion. You just can’t learn anything after that.

You’re lucky it’s a ram – last time I found SoR doing that with ballistae at the door. ;P

TBH though I think that doorway should be cut out of the game and replaced with stairs. It’s like they designed it just to be sadistic.

TC:

We just took the south camp on your borderlands again. Please send more than 15 to take it this time. We would like a challenge.

Edit: 8-10 [Toon] and some [KH] just came. We wiped them. I said to bring more than 15 guys. 10 is not enough.

Edit: Well, thanks for coming back with 15+. We did kill about 5 of you, but we were overrun. All six of us still have all our bloodlust stacks though.

JakobGW.5730:

TC:

We just took the south camp on your borderlands again. Please send more than 15 to take it this time. We would like a challenge.

Have you tried placing cake on the ground?

EvilSardine.9635:

Atrophied.8725:

I hope CD and SoS are taking this week to learn from TC so they can improve, not just sitting back and letting the score run out.

No thanks.

The other night we ran across a 15 or so TC group near the north camp but we only had 5 people in our group so we moved south a bit towards the skritt caves. Instead of chasing us, they took the high route so now they are overlooking us from the top of the cliff. Our mesmer pulls down their commander and all but two of them follow him like lemmings to his death.

That was hands down the best thing I’ve seen in months.

wait..was this at the woodhaven tower? I was nearby that location yesterday on my thief and saw literally at least 10 TC running off the cliff to their deaths..I didn’t understand what I was seeing

JakobGW.5730:

TC:

We just took the south camp on your borderlands again. Please send more than 15 to take it this time. We would like a challenge.

Edit: 8-10 [Toon] and some [KH] just came. We wiped them. I said to bring more than 15 guys. 10 is not enough.

Post like this have a point? And our map shows us owning south supply camp. I have rejected your post and subsituted my own.

JakobGW.5730 : TC I need attention come kill me.

bishop.7596:

we’ve had offers from JQ/SOR & SOS too whoever that give me that ring thx for the offer sometime back.. SOS one of the good choice on my list of honorable server u guys deserve to move back up, b4 the meltdown we just couldn’t bear to leave old comrade behind so if we’re there won’t we be the one doing the sable rattling, can see how far esf degenerated after previous leader hugable was replaced.. wonder wat u did last week when SOR tramp u guys.. bring out 6" revolver shoot thy neighbour?

Hi bishop.7596,

i think you gotten the facts about EsF during that time was wrong. Think you better get the info right before assuming. When i took over as a guild leader of EsF, i was doing some house cleaning and it didnt degenerate as what you think, but in fact, we grew bigger and created a stronger bonds within us. i brought esf to a next level where 1 couldnt have reached. we had more friends and had a stronger friendship within us then just in game. We even had outings and had a great fun.

i thank my officers that put in effort and also my guild members that has been supporting me. without them, i wouldnt be where i am.

The day when EsF moved to TC, all of the active ex esf formed and created a new guild called Invcitus emperium [INVC] and we are still growing… till now, we play games everyday and having laughters everyday.

and oh yeah bishop… huggable didnt train me to be a guild leader, i trained myself to be one but i thank huggable for training me up to a good commander leading wvw.

if you got your information from your ex guildlies about me… well, all i can say is… you just embarrass yourself and the guild by having all the information wrong which gave us a good laugh behind the doors.

i would like to thank kome for carrying on our legacy by doing the chicken run video instead of quaqqans. that video is sure cute by saying “KFC”

i shall see you in wvw… it was fun seeing you in CD bl last night and hope you like the guild emblem at garrison in CD bl..

lets all have fun playing this game and its just a game at the end of the day

cheers

Sunreva.8714:

EvilSardine.9635:

Atrophied.8725:

I hope CD and SoS are taking this week to learn from TC so they can improve, not just sitting back and letting the score run out.

No thanks.

The other night we ran across a 15 or so TC group near the north camp but we only had 5 people in our group so we moved south a bit towards the skritt caves. Instead of chasing us, they took the high route so now they are overlooking us from the top of the cliff. Our mesmer pulls down their commander and all but two of them follow him like lemmings to his death.

That was hands down the best thing I’ve seen in months.

wait..was this at the woodhaven tower? I was nearby that location yesterday on my thief and saw literally at least 10 TC running off the cliff to their deaths..I didn’t understand what I was seeing

Nope, haha. But I guess it happens often? This happened north of Sunnyhill….

Aieo.2815:

Thanks for training our militia RE and other TC guilds on SoS tonight!

Hey thanks that was fun, you really outnumbered us @ first making things pretty frustrating but we decided to fight the endless SoS horder nonetheless. After the hold @ Bluelake tower with all the Superior Ac’s we gathered more numbers and the fights were more interesting. We had some people doing a fight club and needed them to leave to balance out the population, we had 30-45 before that Bluelake tower fight. It was fun, thank you guys.