Guild Wars 2

4. “It’s an Elitist Ego-Contest”

Obviously there’s a certain amount of that going on. This is the internet, and GvG is a community with thousands of members, so there will always be some. But for the most part, GvGers aren’t doing it for bragging rights. They’re doing it to experience the most intense and exciting combat WvW, and indeed GW2, can offer.
And there’s nothing elitist about it. Anyone can form a GvG-team, and they will always be able to find opponents. The top teams are always willing to have sparring matches with newer teams, as it gives them a chance to try new tactics and keep in practice.

5. "It’s detrimental to the server, to the “real” WvW effort"

Firstly, remember that there are jumping puzzles, crafting stations, vistas, skill-points, and PvE mobs by the hundred in WvW. WvW was clearly intended to cater to a wider audience than simply “follow the commander”, so if that really upsets you how about you go take your anger to the guys using the crafting stations first.

Secondly, some people seem to think that the guilds who GvG don’t do anything else, and never help the server. This is quite simply false. The vast majority of guilds who GvG spend 6 days a week playing WvW “properly”, that is taking, defending and upgrading keeps/towers, and then set aside 1 evening per week for GvG/training/skirmishes/dueling.

Take a look at gw2gvg.com . Every single one of the guilds registered on that site are assets to their server, backbones even in some cases. If the guilds who enjoy GvG were to leave your server, your server would drop several tiers within the space of a week. I’m not even exaggerating. These are WvW guilds that spend countless hours tearing down T3 keeps, busting zergs, and propping up your server, and you can’t even let them have 1 hour a week for some rest and relaxation? You think making these guilds bored/frustrated enough to leave your server is going to help your server?

6. “It takes up queue space”

This is, of course, sometimes true. However, GvGers dislike queues just as much as anyone else and will seek out maps that don’t have them. It’s incredibly frustrating to be unable to start because a single key-player is stuck in queue.

Sometimes it just can’t be avoided. But then consider; is it better to get 20 extra upscale casuals in for one hour, or is it better to have an active, enthusiastic, skillfull guild on your server for the rest of the entire week? If you’re concerned for your server’s points, the answer should be obvious.

By the way, I’m not saying casuals don’t have a right to play, I’m talking merely from a cold-hard-points perspective. If you want to debate “right to play”, then I would direct you back to the jumping puzzles and crafting stations, and the non-sensical server transfer system. Sort those out first.

7. “It isn’t GvG. GvG was in GW1 and was totally different”

This has got to be the stupidest argument to ever appear on these forums. GvG just means “Guild versus Guild”, ie. 2 guilds going against each other in a contest. Its just like “Deathmatch” or “Capture the Flag”; a generic name for a game mode. GW1 does not have “rights” over the term GvG. You could call two guilds having a race to collect the most copper “GvG” if you like. It’s just a name.

8. “It’s kill-trading and badge/WXP farming”

Seriously?

Nice posts… I think it sums up the current GVG scene rather nicely.

Personally I don’t GVG, nor do I have any particular interest, but I’m just happy to see other people get excited about and have fun with something in the game. If it weren’t for user-created, user-run game modes like GVG, I would imagine WvW would have become pretty stale for most of us by now.

As I mentioned before, I don’t GvG nor does my guild, but I do know that a lot of the tactics that guilds we fight are developed out of GvG, so it does have an over-arching effect across all of WvW.

No queue? Go nuts. Queue? Consider moving maps. That is about how I feel about GvG other than its a real shame this game is called guild wars and we the players have to shoehorn in good guild vs guild fights.

Anet wants to develop an esport? They are looking at it.

Urrid.4593:

No queue? Go nuts. Queue? Consider moving maps. That is about how I feel about GvG other than its a real shame this game is called guild wars and we the players have to shoehorn in good guild vs guild fights.

Anet wants to develop an esport? They are looking at it.

It’s funny. ANET tried and failed to create a e-sport mode with sPvP, and the players who came to the game for it are out in force showing ANET how it’s done with WvW.

It’s frustrating that Arena Net developers are being handed a solution to their PvP woes and not acknowledging it: 20-30 vs 20-30 team deathmatches that can be spectated live by hundreds. Feel free to monetize this with adds by folks like Logitech and Razer between rounds and matches.

Development advice free of charge there ANet.

WvW isn’t the place for GvG. Players wanting it, and WvW being the only place for it is completely irrelevant. It does not align with the stated Vision of what WvW is to be. It will not be supported, and any updates to WvW will not include any consideration for it.

Players need to quit arguing for it to be accepted in WvW, and start arguing for it to become an addition to GW2. The former is wasted time(it’s the internet). The later may obtain results, even if long term.

Gisei.5749:

WvW isn’t the place for GvG. Players wanting it, and WvW being the only place for it is completely irrelevant. It does not align with the stated Vision of what WvW is to be. It will not be supported, and any updates to WvW will not include any consideration for it.

Players need to quit arguing for it to be accepted in WvW, and start arguing for it to become an addition to GW2. The former is wasted time(it’s the internet). The later may obtain results, even if long term.

From what I’ve seen, players are arguing for GvG. It’s just that they end up having to fight for it on two fronts at this point:

1. For ANET to create the game mode.
2. For players to stop complaining about GvG in WvW so they can show that this game mode would be popular and successful.

You GVG guys realize you have the best place ever for your GVG battles right at your finger tips? A place you can fight your hearts out and never interfere with the ongoing WvWvW battle? A place that has maps within the maps? Haven’t guessed yet?

You ever consider the Eternal Battlegrounds jumping puzzle? The whole map can be your personal battleground, heck did you know they even have an arena inside the place? So there you go problem solved, its a win win for all, you get your GVG and everyone doesn’t have to wait in a long queue till your finished.

Obscure One.4357:

Urrid.4593:

No queue? Go nuts. Queue? Consider moving maps. That is about how I feel about GvG other than its a real shame this game is called guild wars and we the players have to shoehorn in good guild vs guild fights.

Anet wants to develop an esport? They are looking at it.

It’s funny. ANET tried and failed to create a e-sport mode with sPvP, and the players who came to the game for it are out in force showing ANET how it’s done with WvW.

It’s frustrating that Arena Net developers are being handed a solution to their PvP woes and not acknowledging it: 20-30 vs 20-30 team deathmatches that can be spectated live by hundreds. Feel free to monetize this with adds by folks like Logitech and Razer between rounds and matches.

Development advice free of charge there ANet.

I don’t really believe in 20v20 Nancy as an e-sport. It would just be too hard to manage a 20 player team (probably need at least 25 in your roster) and get them all in shape. The player pool is not large enough to create enough teams to compete on a high enough level to become an interesting e-sport. I do think it is something that many WvW zergbusters would love to see implemented and be able to watch but a true e-sport is something I find unlikely.

Guild v Guild doesn’t belong in world versus world, whilest your having your duels your taking up que slots for people who could be attacking/defending on that map, doesn’t matter if the people who would be there are militia/upscaled, WvW is about objectives. See this objectivley. Yes people occasionally using crafting stations do take up slots but theres never 20 people sitting on each one for hours doing their crafting, unlike guild versus guild groups.
Fact of the matter is world versus world is not GvG however much you would like it to be, quit annoying wvwers with these events and start to annoy anet on the forums with dozens and dozens of threads asking for gvg.

Just be aware not everybody shares your view, op. I disagree with most of your argument and think that while yes some might find gvg fun it is detrimental to the servers wvw efforts on the whole. Also, inb4 you flame me for having a different opinion OP.

OH btw your attitude towards militia/pugs/casuals is very, holier than thou. they do alot for a servers community, and should be treated with the same respect you treat one of your guildies, the only thing they don’t have that you do is your guild tag. They deserve a slot in WvW exactly as much as an experienced wvwer does, so saying “would you rather have 20pugs or a 20man experienced groups” is an easy question, i’d take the pugs, atleast they’d be doing something productive with their time in wvw, instead of taking part in/spectating something thats not even meant to be going on in WvW.

I acknowledge that you have nowhere else to do GvG but this isn’t a problem you should be storming the community with, its somethign you should discuss with Anet. WvW is WvW gvg accomplishes nothing, no towers/camps/keeps captured, nada.

VaaCrow.3076:

Guild v Guild doesn’t belong in world versus world, whilest your having your duels your taking up que slots for people who could be attacking/defending on that map, doesn’t matter if the people who would be there are militia/upscaled, WvW is about objectives. See this objectivley. Yes people occasionally using crafting stations do take up slots but theres never 20 people sitting on each one for hours doing their crafting, unlike guild versus guild groups.
Fact of the matter is world versus world is not GvG however much you would like it to be, quit annoying wvwers with these events and start to annoy anet on the forums with dozens and dozens of threads asking for gvg.

Just be aware not everybody shares your view, op. I disagree with most of your argument and think that while yes some might find gvg fun it is detrimental to the servers wvw efforts on the whole. Also, inb4 you flame me for having a different opinion OP.

OH btw your attitude towards militia/pugs/casuals is very, holier than thou. they do alot for a servers community, and should be treated with the same respect you treat one of your guildies, the only thing they don’t have that you do is your guild tag. They deserve a slot in WvW exactly as much as an experienced wvwer does, so saying “would you rather have 20pugs or a 20man experienced groups” is an easy question, i’d take the pugs, atleast they’d be doing something productive with their time in wvw, instead of taking part in/spectating something thats not even meant to be going on in WvW.

I acknowledge that you have nowhere else to do GvG but this isn’t a problem you should be storming the community with, its somethign you should discuss with Anet. WvW is WvW gvg accomplishes nothing, no towers/camps/keeps captured, nada.

Most guilds will go raid after a bit of Nancy and at the very least take back their own corner of the map. The other side has not had the time to upgrade it for sure so it is still easy to take especially since the other side is going to do the same and the ‘owner’ of the homemap has to defend from 2 attackers who are quite sick of fighting eachother at that point. So let’s say they lose everything for you server for 2 hours. That’s 2 camps a tower and a keep. That equals 45 points. Let’s round it up to 70 for dolyaks and the occasional random camp you get to flip for a tick. So they lose 70 ppt for 8 ticks. That’s 560 points in total. So that leaves a point difference between the the servers that have played Nancy and the one that has not of 1120. Let’s be generous and say that because of upgrading loss this leaves you at a 2k point disadvantage.

You won’t lose a matchup because of that and that is assuming nobody on that map is achieving anything for your server. Also since Nancy is not that isolated it is very likely that on another day or even the same day the other team will play as well so it all evens out.

The entire argument that it hurts the efforts of a WvW community is ridiculous. Especially in EU where what happens in primetime means almost nothing because at night everything changes.

I’ve been up al night so there might be some mistakes in my maths.

Caliban.3176:

Obscure One.4357:

Urrid.4593:

No queue? Go nuts. Queue? Consider moving maps. That is about how I feel about GvG other than its a real shame this game is called guild wars and we the players have to shoehorn in good guild vs guild fights.

Anet wants to develop an esport? They are looking at it.

It’s funny. ANET tried and failed to create a e-sport mode with sPvP, and the players who came to the game for it are out in force showing ANET how it’s done with WvW.

It’s frustrating that Arena Net developers are being handed a solution to their PvP woes and not acknowledging it: 20-30 vs 20-30 team deathmatches that can be spectated live by hundreds. Feel free to monetize this with adds by folks like Logitech and Razer between rounds and matches.

Development advice free of charge there ANet.

I don’t really believe in 20v20 Nancy as an e-sport. It would just be too hard to manage a 20 player team (probably need at least 25 in your roster) and get them all in shape. The player pool is not large enough to create enough teams to compete on a high enough level to become an interesting e-sport. I do think it is something that many WvW zergbusters would love to see implemented and be able to watch but a true e-sport is something I find unlikely.

If your suggesting that getting teams to get together, work cohesively, function effectively, and co-ordinate properly isn’t a viable method of producing an e-sport because that’s “hard” then you’re inadvertently agreeing that it’s not only valid, but possibly the most valid thing to learn to manage. Look at any pro sport. Those guys are the best at what they do, and they’re only as good as those around them because they work together cohesively as a team.

As far as volume of players is concerned, there’s already an audience of hundreds of millions that watch e-sports. That’s an unignorably huge demographic that have never seen an MMO in the line up. If even 1% of that audience would be interested in not only watching, but also competing in what you’ve already noted to be an incredibly “hard” i.e. challenging level of play, were talking about over 1 million players, ONE MAH-MAH-MAH-MILLION!.

The competitive gaming market is only getting bigger, and with ANet’s deliberate choice not to pursue it in lieu of garbage content development aimed to please PvE casuals does nothing but make them look foolish when they could be securing a niche in the E-Sport demographic…one they said they’d be pursuing prior to launch and have all but abandoned ever since.

‘GvG’ is a sad last ditch attempt to justify sticking around in this game and pretending there is some organized fun play somewhere to be found. It’s sad what the devs did to such a promising game and I don’t blame zerglings for trying to organize their zerging over voice.

1. You should do it in spvp since it is now a zerg fest or just successive duels. It’s even worse in wvw given the lack of balance with boon duration abuse and consumables.

2. GvG is not a minority interest. It’s zerging with voice. Lotsa ppl do it. Doesn’t require skill just face rolling across the keyboard without knowing whats going on in that sea of red, green and yellow.

3. It isn’t entirely zerging lacking in skill. Think of it as a herd of sheep but with the added advantage of having a shepherd.

Next on the menu, rapid building of ACs in ‘GvG’ fights !

Obscure One.4357:

Caliban.3176:

Obscure One.4357:

Urrid.4593:

No queue? Go nuts. Queue? Consider moving maps. That is about how I feel about GvG other than its a real shame this game is called guild wars and we the players have to shoehorn in good guild vs guild fights.

Anet wants to develop an esport? They are looking at it.

It’s funny. ANET tried and failed to create a e-sport mode with sPvP, and the players who came to the game for it are out in force showing ANET how it’s done with WvW.

It’s frustrating that Arena Net developers are being handed a solution to their PvP woes and not acknowledging it: 20-30 vs 20-30 team deathmatches that can be spectated live by hundreds. Feel free to monetize this with adds by folks like Logitech and Razer between rounds and matches.

Development advice free of charge there ANet.

I don’t really believe in 20v20 Nancy as an e-sport. It would just be too hard to manage a 20 player team (probably need at least 25 in your roster) and get them all in shape. The player pool is not large enough to create enough teams to compete on a high enough level to become an interesting e-sport. I do think it is something that many WvW zergbusters would love to see implemented and be able to watch but a true e-sport is something I find unlikely.

If your suggesting that getting teams to get together, work cohesively, function effectively, and co-ordinate properly isn’t a viable method of producing an e-sport because that’s “hard” then you’re inadvertently agreeing that it’s not only valid, but possibly the most valid thing to learn to manage. Look at any pro sport. Those guys are the best at what they do, and they’re only as good as those around them because they work together cohesively as a team.

As far as volume of players is concerned, there’s already an audience of hundreds of millions that watch e-sports. That’s an unignorably huge demographic that have never seen an MMO in the line up. If even 1% of that audience would be interested in not only watching, but also competing in what you’ve already noted to be an incredibly “hard” i.e. challenging level of play, were talking about over 1 million players, ONE MAH-MAH-MAH-MILLION!.

The competitive gaming market is only getting bigger, and with ANet’s deliberate choice not to pursue it in lieu of garbage content development aimed to please PvE casuals does nothing but make them look foolish when they could be securing a niche in the E-Sport demographic…one they said they’d be pursuing prior to launch and have all but abandoned ever since.

I was mostly suggesting that it would be very hard managing teams of 20 players that have e-sport potential. Managing teams of 5 or 8 seems a lot easier but sadly that is not what the Nancy scene is looking for.

I really love Nancy but I’m a bit sceptical about its e-sport potential. Though I would love for ANet to prove me wrong.

But it IS kill trading.
And like I said months ago in GW1 this would fall under the category of match manipulation leading to a temp. or even permanent ban.

kokiman.2364:

But it IS kill trading.
And like I said months ago in GW1 this would fall under the category of match manipulation leading to a temp. or even permanent ban.

How is it kill trading? There is no agreement on who gets to kill eachother. They just agree to fight somewhere and the rewards are abysmal so that certainly isn’t a reason for it.

It is just as much kill trading as 2 groups that see eachother across the field and decide to engage eachother without having talked to eachother earlier.

Caliban.3176:

kokiman.2364:

But it IS kill trading.
And like I said months ago in GW1 this would fall under the category of match manipulation leading to a temp. or even permanent ban.

How is it kill trading? There is no agreement on who gets to kill eachother. They just agree to fight somewhere and the rewards are abysmal so that certainly isn’t a reason for it.

It is just as much kill trading as 2 groups that see eachother across the field and decide to engage eachother without having talked to eachother earlier.

Don’t you get it? When A.Net bans all fight clubbers and GvGers, WvW will truly be great.

Hehehehehehehe

Caliban.3176:

Especially in EU where what happens in primetime means almost nothing because at night everything changes.

From what i hear in NA theres actually round the clock coverage on many servers so i can somewhat understand their interest in that whole aspect of the game. Its just so completely and utterly meaningless in eu though which is probably why the whole guild roaming scene is / was more popular here.

If there was actually fights worth having 24 hours a day over towers and whatnot i might give a crap about them but when you know one server in the match up is going to t1 all their enemies stuff and t3 all their stuff by outnumbering their enemy 3-4:1 (not to mention pick up 10k+ points) at a time when the overwhelming majority of the playerbase is asleep its just impossible to care about. Results are more or less pre determined as soon as a match up is made in EU.
Real competition between servers only really takes place for about 6 hours in EU, rest is just pvd the vast majority of the time.

A-are you serious? Do people who play GvG really think that?

You won’t earn respect with your weird staged fights.

kokiman.2364:

A-are you serious? Do people who play GvG really think that?

You won’t earn respect with your weird staged fights.

Are you serious with thinking GvGers should be banned for “trading kills”?

Get in the ring and fight.

Why else would you put your guild’s name on the line in an even fight if you didn’t want to earn respect and notoriety?

Why does any professional team take the field in any game on earth? Is it to lose and be second best all the time?! Do people like being losers? NO!

And these people want to prove it. So unless you think you can beat them, i suggest you become a spectator.

saiyr.3071:

Are you serious with thinking GvGers should be banned for “trading kills”?

I never said that.

I said that in GW1 this would count as match manipulation resulting in a ban.

Why do (special)people keep saying “go to spvp”?.Spvp was not a deatmatch the last time i checked.Actually it’s just a smaller copy of wvw,run arround capturing circles avoiding fights as much as possible.

GvG is about killing your enemy aka Deathmatch wich is something gw2 lacks completely.There is no true pvp implemented in this game therefore players are creating it in the only place they actually can,the wvw maps . 1v1 duels,ganking and GvG alike.

kokiman.2364:

saiyr.3071:

Are you serious with thinking GvGers should be banned for “trading kills”?

I never said that.

I said that in GW1 this would count as match manipulation resulting in a ban.

Then may I ask why this is relevant?

Furiousbeard.7602:

Get in the ring and fight.

Why else would you put your guild’s name on the line in an even fight if you didn’t want to earn respect and notoriety?

Why does any professional team take the field in any game on earth? Is it to lose and be second best all the time?! Do people like being losers? NO!

And these people want to prove it. So unless you think you can beat them, i suggest you become a spectator.

You earn your respect through other means, like being outnumbered and yet continue to fight and maybe even win. Not (sorry that I repeat myself) by staged fights with a set number of players.

saiyr.3071:

Then may I ask why this is relevant?

Just saiyan. The main point of that post was that kill trading thingy.

THIS ISN’T GW1!!!!

How many times does this have to be said????

kokiman.2364:

saiyr.3071:

Then may I ask why this is relevant?

Just saiyan. The main point of that post was that kill trading thingy.

Oh, ok. Well in that case, the sky is blue. Unless you live in Seattle.

Deadcell.9052:

You GVG guys realize you have the best place ever for your GVG battles right at your finger tips? A place you can fight your hearts out and never interfere with the ongoing WvWvW battle? A place that has maps within the maps? Haven’t guessed yet?

You ever consider the Eternal Battlegrounds jumping puzzle? The whole map can be your personal battleground, heck did you know they even have an arena inside the place? So there you go problem solved, its a win win for all, you get your GVG and everyone doesn’t have to wait in a long queue till your finished.

I have read this idea before and it may seem perfect at first glance, look into it a bit and you realize how fiddled with flaws is it.
First off, a GvG takes a lot of effort to set up. Both guilds need to figure out what time they can meet, when they have their players online. This tends to happen 99% of the time during prime time. Depending on what server you’re on you will most likely have a queue on eb during prime time, which brings up the big problem of actually getting into eb, so that you can get into the jumping puzzle. IF you did somehow manage to get your entire guild into eb during prime time (remember the rest of the guild usually spectates and you need to have substitutes sometimes), you then come to the problem of finding an area. The arena you suggested is filled with, what was it, rock dogs? A mob either way, that can cause unfair rallying during the actual fight. Any other place in the jumping puzzle that would be “open field” as such, simply wouldn’t be large enough. It’s a jumping puzzle, it’s not meant to have open spaces. The reason the south camp by the windmill was chosen is because you have a perfect open area with a hill that spectators can watch from.
Most GvG’s are 20v20, 25v25 max, and they vary in length. 25 people from your server doing a GvG leaves 55 other slots for you to work with and cap/defend/upgrade. If you are complaining about a queue during a GvG that means you have at least 55 people not doing a GvG. If you can’t work with 55 people and mindlessly blob everything and play “real wvw” then that’s a L2P issue.

Furiousbeard.7602:

THIS ISN’T GW1!!!!

How many times does this have to be said????

My point still stands.

kokiman.2364:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Get in the ring and fight.

Why else would you put your guild’s name on the line in an even fight if you didn’t want to earn respect and notoriety?

Why does any professional team take the field in any game on earth? Is it to lose and be second best all the time?! Do people like being losers? NO!

And these people want to prove it. So unless you think you can beat them, i suggest you become a spectator.

You earn your respect through other means, like being outnumbered and yet continue to fight and maybe even win. Not (sorry that I repeat myself) by staged fights with a set number of players.

saiyr.3071:

Then may I ask why this is relevant?

Just saiyan. The main point of that post was that kill trading thingy.

So every sport on Earth is irrelevant then.

Last time I checked every major sport starts with even teams. By your ridiculous statement, all of those teams get no respect.

Brilliant

kokiman.2364:

saiyr.3071:

Are you serious with thinking GvGers should be banned for “trading kills”?

I never said that.

I said that in GW1 this would count as match manipulation resulting in a ban.

This would not count as match manipulation. Never ever has a Nancy changed the outcome of a match. Nothing is being manipulated. The only thing they are doing is playing the game in a very non efficient way. But so are many people who are just running around for map completion, repairing walls that shouldn’t be repaired or people taking supplies where they shouldn’t take them to help their server. None of this is match manipulation.

I’m sure if there was a similar game format in GW1 that this wouldn’t count as match manipulation, an accusation like that is just delusional.

New rule: All GvGs must begin with the ceremonial yakrifice.

kokiman.2364:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Are you seriously saying that even number competition doesn’t matter?

Well in this case, yes they don’t matter at all in WvW because you guys do nothing but killing each other. You don’t take any camps, kill yaks/guards, siege towers. You are literally grouping up in a corner and kill each other, make a video about it and get comments like “woar that was a sick 2 minute fight!”

Do gvg players want to be on a wvw map in the first place?

NO!

So your point is irrelevant. GVG players want their own arena so there is no interference with wvw.

Get it through your head! We’re limited by Anet.

Furiousbeard.7602:

Get it through your head! We’re limited by Anet.

Well I really hope you guys get your own map/game mode. I guess you are having a lot of fun with it but I still have my, maybe narrow minded, stance on this subject.

saiyr.3071:

New rule: All GvGs must begin with the ceremonial yakrifice.

That would be awesome.

kokiman.2364:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Get it through your head! We’re limited by Anet.

Well I really hope you guys get your own map/game mode. I guess you are having a lot of fun with it but I still have my, maybe narrow minded, stance on this subject.

saiyr.3071:

New rule: All GvGs must begin with the ceremonial yakrifice.

That would be awesome.

All GVG groups need, is a way to fight each other on even terms, in a troll free environment, where guild and server mates can come watch. THAT’S IT!

Until that happens, wvw is THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Thanks for coming out! You’re understanding is appreciated, even if you don’t understand it.

style.6173:

I’m all for GvG but it’s becoming tiresome seeing all these posts.

It’s obvious people don’t understand what the players want.

Until everybody understands, these will continue to pop up. Please educate the masses so that these threads will be less necessary.

@OP

Thank you for this thread. Your case is well laid out and suitably objective.

I shall link this thread the next time I see QQ directed at GvG.

We don’t want to detract from WvW. We’re prevented from doing so because of a failure on part of Arena Net. We’re all in this together.

GvG needs to be a game mode

Until that happens get real used to us being around because the more time that passes with this development team halfassing all things PvP, the more people who are going to burn out on WvW and seek out a way to play that gives them the chance to be proud of themself, their guild, and their server…note that infantile “who’s better at standing in a circle” sPvP mode and Special Olympics “everyone gets a gold medal” PvE mode won’t be where they end up.

Deadcell.9052:

You GVG guys realize you have the best place ever for your GVG battles right at your finger tips? A place you can fight your hearts out and never interfere with the ongoing WvWvW battle? A place that has maps within the maps? Haven’t guessed yet?

You ever consider the Eternal Battlegrounds jumping puzzle? The whole map can be your personal battleground, heck did you know they even have an arena inside the place? So there you go problem solved, its a win win for all, you get your GVG and everyone doesn’t have to wait in a long queue till your finished.

This guy is kittening brilliant.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Deadcell.9052:

You GVG guys realize you have the best place ever for your GVG battles right at your finger tips? A place you can fight your hearts out and never interfere with the ongoing WvWvW battle? A place that has maps within the maps? Haven’t guessed yet?

You ever consider the Eternal Battlegrounds jumping puzzle? The whole map can be your personal battleground, heck did you know they even have an arena inside the place? So there you go problem solved, its a win win for all, you get your GVG and everyone doesn’t have to wait in a long queue till your finished.

This guy is kittening brilliant.

The only problem is you have to get into EB first, which on most servers is the first map with a queue, has the longest queue, and is the last to come off of queue after primetime is over.

GvG has made WvW better. On servers that have a GvG presence you are seeing less blobs and more organized guild zergs. Sure they are still zergs, sure they still rely on PVT, but it is not a blob and I think that is a huge step in the right direction.

I personally hope that GvG is just the first step and the second will be to start see these GvG groups break up into small, coordinated groups built on synergy. I think the DAoC roaming group model is a better fit for WvW as it stands currently.

Either way PPT matters to T1 servers and close matchups, of which we have almost none so I fail to see why folks think GvG has a negative effect on WvW in most cases.

Depending on the time it is done it can have a huge effect or none at all. If it is done early in the week it can turn the tide for the whole week by granting a server a foothold where they would not normally. If done late in the week or in the jp it has little to no effect on the outcome.

In the NA T1 match up 2 weeks ago bg had a 10-20 k lead a bg guild was challenged to a gvg and pretty much gave up the whole map during it(a pve guild at that) because of this offset sor gained the lead by mid week. Lucky enough for bg a sor guild was foolish enough to organize a gvg before they got to far ahead and bg was able to pull ahead by 10k in the end.

Turning the tide of battle is not a hard, but “GvG” happens to directly question the value of the achievement set upon.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Depending on the time it is done it can have a huge effect or none at all. If it is done early in the week it can turn the tide for the whole week by granting a server a foothold where they would not normally. If done late in the week or in the jp it has little to no effect on the outcome.

In the NA T1 match up 2 weeks ago bg had a 10-20 k lead a bg guild was challenged to a gvg and pretty much gave up the whole map during it(a pve guild at that) because of this offset sor gained the lead by mid week. Lucky enough for bg a sor guild was foolish enough to organize a gvg before they got to far ahead and bg was able to pull ahead by 10k in the end. Turning the tide of battle is not a hard, but “GvG” happens to directly question the value of the achievement set upon.

This is pure nonsense. Points are hardly affected by Nancy and that moralizing effect you are trying to describe is non-existent. If you don’t like what these people do just say so. Don’t make up this kind of nonsense.

I don’t know if millenium has a score time lines if they do look at the time of the matches on the gvg site and compare them with the point swings, but don’t assume your ignorance is fact.

GvG’s last, at most, 2 hours, which is 8 point-ticks. Even if the other server can gain a full +695 tick for that entire period, they can still only gain 5560 points. And in reality they’ll probably only be ticking +100 above the other servers, not +600, so a GvG is unlikely to make any more than 500-1000 points difference, or even no difference at all.

“don’t assume your ignorance is fact” did you say?

It is about the tide of battle and momentum sadly it is something I can’t teach you about here.

Another example is blackgate had 2 gvgs last week one at reset and one on sunday both against sor and their first loss in weeks the winner was jq with no gvgs.

Thesilentflute.8761:

It is about the tide of battle and sadly it is something I can’t teach you about here.

Another example is blackgate had 2 gvgs last week one at reset and one on sunday both against sor and there first loss in weeks the winner was jq with no gvgs.

I had fish for dinner twice last week, when I haven’t had it for months before that.

You’d better ban me from eating fish before BG lose another match!

I’m quite curious how long GvG’s take in NA tier then flute, if you think it gives such a huge advantage. Just doing some quick maths to illustrate my point.

If you assume on a borderland, the points are allocated as follows.

Home server – 1 Keep, 2 Towers, 2 Camps.
Server 2 – 1 Keep, 1 Tower, 2 Camps.
Server 3 – 1 Keep, 1 Tower, 2 Camps.

Home server gets 55 PPT, and the others get 45 PPT, correct? So, now we assume that the mean length of a GvG would be probably around 1 hour 30 minutes, if ~10 rounds are played. Lets say its a GvG between Server 2 and Server 3. Home server can now ‘freely cap’ the entire map, according to you. Lets assume that takes 30 minutes, as there will be defenders from server 2 and server 3 slowing that down. So Home Server gets the entire map and can ‘freely’ keep it for 1 hour, until the GvG is over.

Assuming no camps are flipped, and Home Server retains all objectives, this amounts to a startling 360 extra points gained in the hour that the GvG is taking place. Morever, the objectives will be easy to take back as well. As soon as the GvG is over, server 2/3 will start pushing their spawn keep, leaving home server split between 2 forces, most likely losing both keeps again within 10 minutes. And now we’re back to the situation pre-GvG.

Stop going on about it affecting the match please flute, like Caliban said, its pure nonsense.

EDIT – Scumbag Ragnar had a similar idea to me

If you don’t already understand your not going to. My advice is read the Art Of War or Platos the Republic these will help you understand cause and effect among other things.

Thesilentflute.8761:

If you don’t already understand your not going to. My advice is read the Art Of War or Platos the Republic these will help you understand cause and effect among other things.

Oh we understand what you think is happening, that an hour or two of demoralising play will cause people to lose morale and log out, creating a knock-on effect for several hours or days.

It’s just that, in reality, GvG has barely anything to do with this, and in alot of cases does more than enough to raise morale of certain players to cancel any negative effects.

And Sun Tzu is totally relevant to a video game where you can respawn an infinite number of times. Totally relevant.