Retailation is only problem for unorganized zergs. If you roll with a real team your health bar never move
By ‘real team’ you mean a ball consisting mainly of two classes (warrior and guardian) with a smattering of necros and a couple of eles which can move around ignoring all damage due to OP fields and retal taking out anyone who dares to attack it with something other than hammer or staff…
Which is exactly what the problem is- mindless melee train meets mindless melee train, none of whom notice retal because they are all in a ball, as aoe is totally ineffective with a 5 man cap against a ball of 50. Whereas people trying to play other classes that require a lot more positional awareness as well as being squishy and generally a lot harder to play get wiped by a passive retal skill that brokenly has no ICD.
Victory, Beings Lost On Borderlands (BLOB), SFR & Gandara (inactive)
Retaliation is the exact opposite of an anti-zerg mechanic. A zerg going against a small group is not going to care that you have retaliation, you’re going to go splat on their windshield as they plow through. Retaliation on a zerg vs a small group makes the zergs job that much easier. You’re going to half kill yourself just trying to hurt them and then go splat. The only place that retaliation is balanced is currently in small fights 1v1 up to 5v5. They have several options really, 1. Add an internal cooldown so it can only tick 1 per second, 2. Make it only work against direct attacks and not AOE’s 3. Make the caster only take ticks from one source just to name a few.
The worst time I’ve had with retaliation was on my mesmer when I dropped chaos storm and feedback on a zerg. Apparently reflected projectiles count as my attacks and thus proc retaliation. 20k hp to downed in 2 attacks!
Answer to all these guys caring about “poor” roamers against big bad zerg.
The thing is I am roamer myself and I do nothing, but roam. As member of a team specifically searching for outnumbered actions I’ve got to say that retaliation does more good than bad for us. Cause of guardians with high boon duration it stays nearly permanently on each of us allowing us to still do some damage while running away -preventing enemies from easy healing up. It’s the situation where skills matter more than numbers (running away with relativly tanky builds, group heal up – yet doing damage without even attacking. And on other side there’s unorganised zerg spamming skills getting themselves slowly killed).
Huge aoe attacks shouldn’t be free card, retal isn’t evade. YOU as attacker should know what you’re signed for and predict the result of it.
Some people mentioned about builds that are melting to retal. Here’s simple answer – there’s no build “best” at everything and everything has its counter – maybe for granadier retal on group is that? I’m engi granadier myself and in comparsion to damage I can deal fully stacked I think it’s pretty reasonable to get hit for 250damage on every ~1k I do from 1500 range.
Roamers don’t really have problems with retaliation. If they can survive 5vs15 actions, they will do as well with retal on both sides or most likely better.
And as someone called it “anti zerg mechanic” – it’s great name for that. If you drop meteor with your cannony build on 20 players – what do you expect? It’s fair to deal 5-10k damage per hit and easly get away with it?
Engineer / Piken Square
Former Team Psy [Psy] member/ [BNF] guest YT Channel
Speaking as a boon Guardian, retaliation is one of those things that helps me contribute in an offensive way at the moment and nerfing it would be both rude and further pigeon hole us into a role that many of us struggle to fight against.
My second main is an Engie though, and this is where I am going to speak to retaliation from. i roam a lot with her and on occasion help zerg bust with her as well. To date i’ve yet to be taken down by the other zerg’s retal stacks. Part of the reason for this is becaues i don’t blindly spam my AOE into the zerg, and more importantly, I pay attention to my health bar. If I’m dropping to that zerg its because some guys realized what i was doing and focused me down, and not because I was “hitting myself”. Seriously, please stop putting the blame for your death on not being able to properly read a situation. That’s like someone coming in here and complaining because a necro they were chasing ran off a cliff and spectral walked themselves back to the top while they fell to their death and so therefore SW needs to be nerfed.
[OTR] – Greck Howlbane – Guardian
Soraya Mayhew – Thief
Melissa Koris – Engie – SF for Life!
And as someone called it “anti zerg mechanic” – it’s great name for that. If you drop meteor with your cannony build on 20 players – what do you expect? It’s fair to deal 5-10k damage per hit and easly get away with it?
Extremes are fun!
I throw a bunch of grenades into the enemy zerg, dealing 300dmg. In return, i take 15k damage from a passive damage reflect.
Is THAT fair?
There already is a counter to AoE, spreading out and not face-tanking it. But currently its more effective to just eat that damage and let a dumbfire boon kill whoever attacked your zerg.
So you dont even need to pay attention to whats around you anymore, just follow the blue dorito.
My main is an engie and I have zero issues with retal. Learn to blast water fields and heal back up, you will NOT die instantly unless you are a total scrub, in which case you just need to l2p. Strip their boons, get them to break apart so they can’t aoe retal, ignore the retal and be where you’re supposed to be so you get blasted waters to get your hp back, stop wearing full zerker and get some vit etc.
I’ve probably downed myself once with retal and that was because I threw a grenade barrage on top of their stack after portal bombing like an idiot, instead of rolling out of the portal and attacking when I was supposed to, which was MY OWN FAULT not because retal is some op boon.
Also, I bet 99% of you are same scrubs who cry because you get wrecked by arrow carts (probably because you’re all squishy zerks in pve builds.) You probably have no idea that retal is the one of the only counters to arrow carts that no one can reach. Where is your god now if now we can’t counter those arrow carts with aoe retal?
Also, I bet 99% of you are same scrubs who cry because you get wrecked by arrow carts (probably because you’re all squishy zerks in pve builds.) You probably have no idea that retal is the one of the only counters to arrow carts that no one can reach. Where is your god now if now we can’t counter those arrow carts with aoe retal?
Too bad they removed retaliation on arrow carts shortly after launch then. Please calm down and breathe…
Learn to blast water fields and heal back up, you will NOT die instantly unless you are a total scrub
Correct. The problem obviously isn’t that you’re going to die instantly from the retaliation alone, the problem is that it adds up with the damage you take from other sources. For example, you might have survived an enemy burst with 3-4K HP left, but you die because you lost 5K HP from retaliation on e.g. Whirling Wrath shortly before that.
