Guild Wars 2

People that see heal as an interesting part of a gameplay : Gw1 players.
People arguing it would make harder to find a team : random MMO players…

Just because you only experienced boring healer roles doesn’t mean it can’t be more…
It depends on the gameplay (not only “+XXX Hp”… cf conditions, enchantments, hexes…)

Erasculio.2914:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of players on the official forums, all screaming about their own personal pet peeves as if they were the single most game-breaking, soul-crushing issue in the history of video gaming. There are certainly thousands of other players in other venues across the Internet, doing the same thing. Perhaps one in fifty, at best of these players are both able and willing to present reasoned, considered points in a calm and rational manner and engage in sensible debate rather than pointless, bitter flaming and arguing.

No, I don’t feel like ArenaNet listens to me, or to players on the forums. And I’m totally cool with that.

This man speaks the truth. ArenaNet should not listen to players in the forum.

People I know that didn’t leave share all my points of view.
They still can play and have fun, but they agree with what I dislike about the game (poor gameplay above all).
So yeah, feel free to ignore them too.

Tolmos.8395:

Straylight.7408:

Tolmos.8395:

The game isn’t dead, but server list will direct you to the wrong servers. An arenanet poster confirmed that the stats you see on the server list (high, full, etc) are the number of players who call that server home, NOT the number logged in at the time. So even if your particular shard says high or full, that particular one could be dead as a door nail. Watch the forums to find which are more lively.

Also keep in mind everyone is in LA and running fractals. There is no real reason to do open world stuff ATM so don’t expect to find many people out there,

This is actually incorrect but I don’t blame you for posting that. The arenanet poster (who was actually just a CC-Community Coordinator) answered in such a misleading way that people started to believe that the serverlist reflects the people who call that server home but in fact it IS the number of people who’re currently logged in. People logging on and off is the only way to explain the daily fluctuations of server-statuses.

Can you post a source? As much as I would like to believe that, we have an arena net poster who directly contradicts that statement.

As for the fluctuations- server transfers still exist, and it is no secret that people are making use of them as much as possible. Transfers to and from servers are happening constantly. So even based on the factual reality that server lists are based on characters present in the server regardless of whether they are logged in or not, the fluctuations are still explainable and expected.

Yes, tired to hear the same lame argument from people…
They say it again 6 days ago, but I assume it was wrong…
http://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Server-Full-Permanent/first#post1186552

Red Falcon.8257:

Miomooki.3812:

I don’t miss the healer role at all and I played a monk in GW1. This is a lot better system, period.

This.

If you miss spamming healz OP nothing prevents you from playing another game that has healers.
Why don’t you just do that?

Second post I read from you in 5 minutes, same trolling cO
If you think heal in Gw1=spam, I don’t know how you were playing ; well, given that you consider Gw2 “hard” could explain some things too.

Lorelei.7809:

As a GW1 Mesmer, GW2 is for me. Though, I do agree that PvP (not WvW!) is less intriguing due to lack of options of modes. I think WvW is great.

As far as PvE goes, it is much superior. Though there were hundreds of skills in GW1, you only used probably 20 of them (2 builds, plus a couple of flexible skills). The only other time you’d use (maybe) a different build would be in a dungeon, but even in dungeons (elite areas) there were only so many builds and you would be expected to use a particular build (Mesmers had practically one use after they were updated: Use Panic in any dungeon/elite area/PvE/whatever reducing the amount of elite skills possible to use from probably 3 prior to that update to 1 – and they had far more than 3 elite skills to choose from). The reason I played PvP was so that I could use different builds (even then, I only used basically 3 different builds that were solid)!

Stats? You were expected to have a particular set of stats for your profession. And they severely limited the amount of effective skills you could use on your bar. You could use at most 3 skill types to be effective. With a Mesmer you needed Inspiration (to manage energy) and Fast Casting (which had basically no useful skills, but it made your profession and enabled you to be less likely to be interrupted, to get the “first shot in,” and to interrupt better, which, I admit, I kind of miss that role in GW2) so you couldn’t blend Domination and Illusion magic efficiently (and they would have worked so well together if it weren’t for the necessity of Inspiration magic for decent energy management). The energy management required 1-2 skills, along with a healing skill, and a resurrection skill. This resulted in only have 4-5 skill slots open on my bar for any build (which is, guess what, lower or equal to how many we have in GW2 to choose from any skills not stat-dependent!). This isn’t even taking into consideration that we have 15 skills available to use not including profession skills in GW2, whereas we only had 8 in GW1 (and were locked into those 8 ) and in GW1 we didn’t have traits to add effects.

Other professions were similar as you got into the game. My husband was a “splinter-Barrage” ranger. He hardly ever used any other elite/build just because nothing was as effective in PvE. In PvP, he could have more variety! He also had to keep stats heavily on his profession one for energy management, have stats on marksmanship, and he had to secondary as a Ritualist and have stats on Channeling for splinter weapon. He hardly ever changed a skill once we got deep enough into the game. But at least his build had more flexibility. Note: Though he had many options for elite skills, he (practically) could only use one if he went into Hard Mode or an elite area, etc. Whereas now, in GW2 he has more, valid, options for elite skills.

I played GW for a little over 2 years and it was long-in-the-tooth for me then (I’ve done all content but the Underworld, which I have no desire to do considering my three-man group). I’ll definitely be able to get 5+ years out of GW2.

Keep in mind, too, that GW has expansions and GW2 has not had one yet (adding to the number of skills in GW).

I disagree with almost everything :/
I was playing a lot of builds at the end, and I have been playing even more since some skills were often balanced. If you couldn’t make your own build, yes, it was limited. You was probably playing too “mainstream”, only the OP skill of the moment.
And mesmer was SO better in Gw1 cO
You could rupt when needed, use hex spells, or even max fast cast with secondary attribute “for fun”…

To say a word about speedclear, yes it was nice, but only a small part of what was great in Gw1…
Balanced team (even in PvE) were the strongest, and the most interesting.
Gw1 was not born with Sf…

And to answer the person who’s saying you couldn’t play “different” things in Gw1 if you wanted to be taken in a team…
Guild was made for this…
Test new teams, new builds, was great, even if it sometimes failed.

beren.6048:

Trinity games lean completely on the healer / tank, the rest can just sit back and hold the fire button. That is really not interesting either.

Then Gw1 was definitely not a trinity game, but still worked well.

Dogblaster.6713:

unsatisfied players (minority)

Well, that’s a point of view.
Talking about Gw1 players, I doubt even more it’s right.

Same as OP.
I loved Gw1.
And I got bored really fast on Gw2.
I know many people from Gw1 that like Gw2, but definitely less than people that don’t play anymore.
You can say whatever you want about Gw1, that it was only grind, but to me it was not.
I don’t know what you did on Gw1, but probably not the same things.
Farming, making our own builds was not “grinding”. Because yes, Farming is not grinding.
Trying new teams in Deep, Urgoz, FoW, UW, DoA… wasn’t grind.
Playing in a real PvP wasn’t grind, and was interesting.
Skills updates were keeping the game “alive”, in constant change, and made us try new things.

And believe me, I want probably as much as you to see the game become better.

I really loved Mario with terrible bosses that throw things you need to avoid…
But it’s somehow light for Gw2.

kefro.9312:

Just like that guy from blizzard on facebook…
When the guy that made the Diablo2 was unhappy with that Diablo3 the blizzard director posted on facebook “f* that loser” and all blizzard employes liked LOL, i guess those blizzard employes are also on this forums haha

Oh wait the ppl bought 10 milion diablo3 in the 1st week just because of diablo2 and the director said “f* that loser” when talking about the guy that made Diablo2 isnt that nice?
Good luck on Diablo4 oh wait… fail!

Or like this studio, ahem…- Anet! -, selling gw2 and telling people it would take “everything we loved from gw1” but actually doesn’t, isn’t that nice?
Good luck on extension oh wait… Fail!

AcidicVision.5498:

Actually on topic now that that other mess has been straightened out (for at least a week, until someone copies that Eva post and tries to make a point with it again)

Who cares anyway? You can look down on everybody as much as you want and write 10 posts/hour, game is emptying…
But I can’t prove it, indeed.
No need to show me another red pen.

Crossaber.8934:

Lets us provide some interesting and creative combat encounter here. And please do not bring any sort of core mechanical changes into this discussion, as right here is trying to create constructive and creative thinking into making GW2 more interesting.

You can’t make a deeper gameplay only by adding some behaviours to some foes…
Yes there is a lack of AI that could make the game better, but not enough if everything else stay the same.

Else, you would have to work on each foe, every situation, to make it interesting, it’s not the way it has to be approached. It could work only for the dungeons.

It would be like design a mario game… More work, and even more if you add new content.

It’s a background issue, and it needs to be solved at the source.

If not working on the “core”, at least add skills, or unlock some aspects of the gameplay already present.

Well… I can’t edit to add this… too long…

Silentsins.3726:

Geren.1945:

The point is with most effects so ridiculously short in length, you might as well not bother with em’, since they won’t probably make much of a difference and your time could probably be better spent just smashing stuff in the face instead.

Then, your enge drops glue shot for another 3 seconds before going back to DPS, followed by your ele, who also happens to be paying attention, extends the control even further by throwing frozen ground in front of that. Meanwhile, the whole enemy group tries to run at your group in a ball the whole time.

You don’t get it. The above is a common example of how the game is intended to be played. How it IS played by good players. Most people would rather complain then figure that out though…

It is control, indeed, I can’t say it isn’t…
But god, you say it is the way “good players” play, it seems to requiere everybody’s attention, and it’s only… what? Snare? to be able to run in front of mobs? Nice for melee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyYmN2dzJ18
Last time I used it, it was for D3. Here’s another sign

That’s not what I’d call control, or with many more things acting on at least cast/attack, in different ways

critickitten.1498:

Alipius.4783:

Yes and no.
Prophecy : tank/heal/dps : right.
But after? No more. You could play without any tank, because instead of “drawing fire” you could control it. Or for a short time, heal/prot enough the entire party.

Trinity is abstract, and pretty wrong as a concept. Because as I said, if you don’t put everyone without heal, and able to tank/dps the exact same way, you see something that may look like trinity, inevitably, because it comes from “logic”.
But the gameplay and the mecanics in fight are real, and modulate what can be the “trinity”, even in presence of what could be seen as tank/heal/dps.
If you find anything wrong in the list I made for the strenght of Gw1 gameplay, tell me what ; or at least, where we find something as deep in Gw2.
A poor trinity gameplay would be as bad as the gameplay of gw2.

But once more, Gw1 wasn’t only about “heal/tank/dps”, there were variations, and many things working together to handle.

You are creating a false reality.

Having “variations” to trinity game play does not mean that the trinity does not exist.

Agreed, what I said first was

It was already redesigned in a way that allowed you to play without any “tank”. Melee were not thought to be “tanks”.

which is more realistic.

critickitten.1498:

whoever is drawing fire is the “tank” by default.

On this I do not fully agree. I wasn’t meaning “melee”, in which case it would have been appropriate to precise this, but really “nothing on frontline to take it all”. Which actually means only a frontline and a backline ; but everyone taking dmges, not only one player.
If you’d go with 6 El and 2 Mo, El casting on the same foes, there wouldn’t be one more focused in theory than another, so, not any “tank”

critickitten.1498:

The reason that you perceive zero strategy in GW2 beyond “damage, damage, and more damage” is because you aren’t actually watching your party members as closely as you think, and you have no clue how they are specced or what role they’re trying to fulfill. I’ve run dungeons with a warrior who I thought for sure was running a damage-heavy guy because of how much he would leap into combat, only to find out that he was running a support build through copious use of shouts (and traits that make shouts more supportive for party play).

It’s easy to detect who is fulfilling which role in GW1 because all you have to do is look at their class. GW2 doesn’t make that distinction clear, because any class can do any of the three main combat roles, and your party will still succeed if you’re smart and work together. You can run a dungeon with full DPS, or you can run a dungeon with a mixed bunch, and neither is invalid. What you perceive as “nothing but DPS” is more varied than you realize, and the main reason you don’t see it is because you can’t just look at a player’s class and say “okay, he’s the healer”.

It’s not a matter of being able to do some things, it’s the importance of these things in the gameplay. There I switch to the other discussion :

Erasculio.2914:

Erasculio.2914:

3) Zealot’s Embrace: immobilization in a line. Negligible damage.

for 2 seconds with a 15 second cooldown. And you better get them ducks to line up in some sense.

4) Banish: throws an enemy away. Negligible damage.

Part of the strongest controls in the whole game, as the target is put out of it for as long as the flight takes and the animation for them to get back up. But it comes with a 25 second cooldown so you better get that timing right.

5) Ring of Warding: no damage. Creates a ward enemies cannot cross.

an interesting idea, but it lasts for 5 seconds and spends 40 seconds on cooldown.

Again, better time that use correctly.

These are tools that you use “sometimes”, sporadically. The gameplay is not based on it, it’s actually as if I’d say a stance a monk could take in his build in gw1 was a strong part of all he can do. It helps from time to time, but that’s all.
Like the pause in Hitman to kill many targets together. It doesn’t learn you how to aim, how to sneak.
In games you can do (or not) 4 things : dps/tank/heal/control. Let’s say everyone is more or less “tank”, as you said.
In Gw2, all can DPS.
But heal and control are at the same level, used from time to time

critickitten.1498:

lothefallen.7081:

This basically….there was no trinity in GW1. There were healers that balanced out the rest of the mechanics, but you could not indefinitely tank in GW1 even with a healer. Everyone had a purpose in team play and you’re right, if my mesmer gets spiked or pressured out to where the monk can’t heal him, oh my, guess what? Lots of ele AoE and meteor coming my way. Same for any class in the team. This game is just homgeneized and dumbed, it’s time to rub that dust out of your eyes.

GW1 did use the trinity. To claim otherwise is being dishonest.

There were dedicated healer classes, dedicated tanks, and dedicated damage. And groups could not run without all three elements in play. The tank drew fire, the damage damaged, and the healer healed. That is the textbook definition of trinity game play.

People need to stop viewing GW1 through blatant nostalgia goggles. I love GW1 as a game, but as someone who played it for years, I can tell you that you’re not being honest with yourself. GW1 was textbook trinity game play. The fact that some classes could adjust their roles depending on what skills they had does not change this fact.

GW2, in that respect, is similar to GW1, because it also has trinity game play (just of a more vague sort).

Yes and no.
Prophecy : tank/heal/dps : right.
But after? No more. You could play without any tank, because instead of “drawing fire” you could control it. Or for a short time, heal/prot enough the entire party.

Trinity is abstract, and pretty wrong as a concept. Because as I said, if you don’t put everyone without heal, and able to tank/dps the exact same way, you see something that may look like trinity, inevitably, because it comes from “logic”.
But the gameplay and the mecanics in fight are real, and modulate what can be the “trinity”, even in presence of what could be seen as tank/heal/dps.
If you find anything wrong in the list I made for the strenght of Gw1 gameplay, tell me what ; or at least, where we find something as deep in Gw2.
A poor trinity gameplay would be as bad as the gameplay of gw2.

But once more, Gw1 wasn’t only about “heal/tank/dps”, there were variations, and many things working together to handle.

Fox.3469:

Imo there is no DPS roll in GW2 PvE, glass cannon builds are stupid. The people complaining probally are glass cannons that want a tank or healer to keep them up. Again, the game isn’t broken cause you can’t make a build.

Broken, probably not.
Boring and without interest, definitely yes.

I appreciate the “you’re bad, so you don’t like the gameplay”.
But I prefer “the gameplay is bad, so I don’t like it”.

smekras.8203:

huh… you learn new stuff every day… apparently GW2 PvE is horrible and needs to change. also Trinity needs to “come back”. yeah.

No.

Gw2 PvE is limited. And Gw2 gameplay is horrible.
Concerning trinity, I assume it would just be a way to get a decent gameplay. Could be other possibility.

Horrorscope.7632:

Ok lets entertain ourselves for a short moment. Lets say they decide there will be class roles in GW2. Ho daddy is it going to be lively around here with that switch in direction. I would then suggest any one in a design/pr role for GW2 to change their names legally if they ever want to work in this industry again, if yet another large change like that occurs.

Ok back to reality, IT AIN’T HAPPIN’N. There needs to be a Fantasy or Jr. Game Designer sub-forum here for all these idea’s and what if’s. I put in a suggestion that we get a single keystroke to pickup loot and not trigger other things like NPC conversations or equipping an item from the ground. I’ll be doing back flips if we get that. Some want to overhaul the entire combat model engine. Welcome to planet earth space boy.

Yes, not like if the manifesto was a sweet lie. I trust them more than ever
And the “combat model engine” is not to be entirely changed. Many mechanics are already here, intrinsically. Add more (much more) skills, true healing, and that’ll be a beginning. Free our neurons.

Back to you, captains fanboyz.
May your strong arguments triumph from evil contructive feedback.

Konfuzfanten.6503:

This thread, as a lot of the “we-want-trinity-back” threads boils down to players that cant play without someone carrying them or a heal/tank crutch. Saying that standard trinity MMO dungeons requires “skills” is a mockery of the word skill. 95% of all trinity MMO dungeons is about gear, as soon as you got the gear everything turns into a snoozefest.

I have played a lot of the top end dungeons in the most populare MMOs and skill wise they aint challenging, get the right gear, a proper MT and a main healer and go afk watching TV. Yes playing MT does require some skill, mostly placement of the boss/pulls and you got to control the encounters but everyone else just stands around doing what their addons tells them…

Thing is, trinity may be bad ; but this new system is cleary worse.

And obviously you didn’t try gw1

They got rid of trinity in Gw2, so, nice.
Trinity wasn’t so present in gw1. It was already redesigned in a way that allowed you to play without any “tank”. Melee were not thought to be “tanks”.
So let’s say gw1 either belong to the 5% or wasn’t trinity based.
Why change this system?

Actually, the whole “trinity” thing is more about logic than design in many games.
You got more armor? Frontline.
You deal dmges but your armor is lower? Midline.
You heal but don’t pretend to deal dmge? Why stay in the fire? Backline.
Gw1 was not a trinity game. Only a game with logical mechanics.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Team_roles
Gw1 wasn’t a “tank/heal/dps” game. But a “damage/support/control” game.
Control. That makes a game deeper. That was interesting and different.
And gear was not all. Nothing actually. You could have the best armor in terms of protection quite soon.

To destroy properly the trinity, you have to rip the game off of any real healing and allow everyone to tank and dps.
Which results in a fake synergy.

Konfuzfanten.6503:

And its a well known fact that ppl that are horribad at GW2 PvE thinks that GW2 PvE is horribad.

PvE IS horribad.
Poor. Overeasy.
The mecanics and strategy implied are the same kind as those to play Assassin’s Creed multiplayer.
You can ""master"" the gameplay, but in some ways that are worthless.

Gw1 :

• Energy
• Activation of the skills displayed : rupts/anticipation
• Conditions were not only meant to basically DPS, or rupt/blind poooosh like that ;
  there was synergy (the most basic one with warriors : bleeding, then allowing to apply deep wound (20% health reduction, healing less effective)), and something you can’t find without heal : pressure.
• Enchantment : a simple one : echo : cast echo, then another spell “normally” : echo is replaced by this spell for X seconds ; attunements ; many and many different effects ; “protection” attribute for Monk : preventing dmges, not only healing.
• Stances : speed, attack speed, attack blocking, even preventing hexes (mantras), or rupts…
• Hexes : can interact with any other mecanic : slower attack, missed attack, dmges when casting a spell or attacking, longer activatingtimes, energy loss if you do some things (either attacking or trying to heal someone)…
• Spells to remove hexes and enchantments, with various effects
• Different AoE range
• Many skills, and secondary prof, allowing you to create and play really different builds, with complete different gameplay.
• IA was decent. And more. Targetting people together with AoE, targeting caster with skill A, using B on war, and then rupting Ele with C. Running from melee. Not staying in AoE… etc
  Not only HP HP HP HP and one big skill.

Synergy was the main word. Everything was tied together.
You touch player A, the whole team can fall in 3s.
Either it is the mesmer, who was keeping an elementalist under control, or the monk ; even a war, then preventing dmges.
But the other team could do the same.
Constant interacting on many levels.

In Gw2, what do we have?

• Jump
• Dodge
• DPS
• DPS
• DPS
• DPS

Yes, you must think on how and when use this skill or another. To deal DPS. Or basically counter DPS. Amazing.
Failed synergy.
Pseudo-complexity.

Straylight.7408:

Alipius.4783:

I’m not going to list one more time every valid argument that we’re giving for months now…
I haven’t even logged for 3 months, and I don’t plan to do so.

Forum is now at the “nearly-full-of-fanboyz” step. There is no more real feedback possible, and anyway devs didn’t pay attention to us in the beta (even alpha), it’s too late.
I was hoping gw2 would be the great game I was told, but obviously it is not and there’s no more hope to make things change.

The game, in every aspect, is following the same path as many games lately.
Old fans betrayed, ignored, even despised. Forums full of negative feedbacks, and still, fanboyz arguing “you don’t like it? Leave! Most of the players love this game the way it is”.
And people left, forums went full of happy players, and game emptied more and more.

Difference being, I was telling on the other forums that “Gw2 would prove how excellent a game can be”, and even “this game is dead the day gw2 is released”. Nice try. Nice joke.

Denial is not gonna prevent the same things to happen to gw2 in any way.
But sadly, 1 person buying gems is worth more than 10 leaving.

Yes, we understand you’re disappointed with the game but why don’t you give Arenanet some constructive feedback?
What would you change?
There are at least as many doomsayers than fanboys on these forums. Bashing the game without constructive feedback is allowed…but ultimately won’t motivate Anet to change anything.

I think many people are unhappy because they burnt through the content at such a fast pace that there isn’t anything left to do for them anymore. But that’s their own mistake. It’s like reading all 5 books of Game of Thrones in two weeks and then complain to G.R.R Martin that you feel bored waiting for Volume 6&7.

Quartz.3462:

I love GW2 so far and I see myself playing for several months at the least. I’m only a casual player so I have lots of the game to experience still but I can’t say I’m bored with it. If I do get bored I’ll just stop playing, wait for some content patch to arrive and play that That’s the thing I like about GW2 – it’s very casual friendly and I don’t feel like I’m forced to keep playing to keep up. I can just play a little bit when I want and then stop playing if I get bored.

See? People like him are happy because he has the correct attitude towards gaming. He takes his time like reading a good book.

What strikes me is that many complaints remind me of the way lots of people seem to live their lives – always full speed, brain disengaged, rushing towards whatever goal is up next, as if maintaining a constant high stress level is the primary objective of life.

I did not “rationalize” first, you know.
I was enjoying the game the first hours, and then, I suddenly got bored. Really bored.
I didn’t rush that much. And it came fast, I was not even lvl 80.
And the /age I got on gw1 is here to prove I can stay on something.

I do not complain about any lack of content. I complain about mecanics, that I find over simplified, I complain about wrong choices made for the story, the lack of continuity between elements of the PvE world and the trip we have to make through it. And above all, I’m really disappointed because many revolutionnary things were present in gw1, and abandonned for gw2. Despite what they said.

And I wrote contructive feedback. Lines and lines explaining why such element seems lame to me, why it doesn’t work well. WE did.
Nothing came out of it. I was not asking for a “Yes sir, consider it done”.
Just an answer, or something informing they were thinking about changing some things for the new content, I don’t know.

I assume last 2 months were more about mourning the game after all.

I’m not going to list one more time every valid argument that we’re giving for months now…
I haven’t even logged for 3 months, and I don’t plan to do so.

Forum is now at the “nearly-full-of-fanboyz” step. There is no more real feedback possible, and anyway devs didn’t pay attention to us in the beta (even alpha), it’s too late.
I was hoping gw2 would be the great game I was told, but obviously it is not and there’s no more hope to make things change.

The game, in every aspect, is following the same path as many games lately.
Old fans betrayed, ignored, even despised. Forums full of negative feedbacks, and still, fanboyz arguing “you don’t like it? Leave! Most of the players love this game the way it is”.
And people left, forums went full of happy players, and game emptied more and more.

Difference being, I was telling on the other forums that “Gw2 would prove how excellent a game can be”, and even “this game is dead the day gw2 is released”. Nice try. Nice joke.

Denial is not gonna prevent the same things to happen to gw2 in any way.
But sadly, 1 person buying gems is worth more than 10 leaving.

pmiles.3489:

People play healers because it’s relatively easy to do. Healing becomes redundant. healing is about DPSing your fellow players with heals.

Go on youtube and check a good Monk in RA on gw1… It’s all but spamming heal. And definitely less redundant than any DPS build…

proxy.7963:

For every person I see say that they’re leaving, I think it’s a shame. Instead of contributing to and shaping a new community and experience, they’re cutting loose – I understand why, but I just don’t feel the same as them.

Some are still here, trying to share how they feel about the game.
But gw1 community got screwed up, Gw2 is a full new game (and does not take everything we loved about Gw1, best joke ever), I don’t feel I owe anything anymore, I’m waiting to see what’s coming next before I trust them again.
And people they got buying the game, coming from other well known games… Meh, it can’t be the same spirit anyway, their vision is different.

And maybe I will address some prayer to the green frog.

Eladriel.7295:

What is wrong with you people? What is up with these topics “Is the game dying?” Do you not ever check the status of the servers? I just checked them how about 15 full servers and 9 Very high tell you something? It does to me. It tells me this game is alive and doing well.

And did you check what it really means? I’d say no

Fox.3469:

i wonder why you ask not to get flamed when making a statement that is just not true, this game isn’t for you, doesn’t mean it’s dieing. Noone is forcing you to play here, if you want to leave, leave, but dear god all the drama, why is it needed? Seems to me you want to be flamed and raged at just to start a pointless discussion. Why don’t you go and look for a game you like instead of wasting your time here.

Oh and on the flaming part. You like wow pvp more because you actually suck and in wow you can grind away your suckiness in pvp, in GW2 you are measured in skill and you fall short. To bad.

1) This game is not for you : agreed. But we were told it was.
2) […]doesn’t mean it’s diying : yep. But the fact that many people feel the same way and stop playing does.
3) Noone is forcing you to play here, if you want to leave, leave : already done. Months ago.
4) but dear god all the drama, why is it needed? : We were told the game was for us². If Gw itself drops what made the first so nice, who is gonna give us such a nice game? Hope.
5) Why don’t you go and look for a game you like instead of wasting your time here : we don’t like the game the way it is and we want it to change.
6) You like wow pvp more because you actually suck and in wow you can grind away your suckiness in pvp, in GW2 you are measured in skill and you fall short. To bad.
Nop. I like gw1 pvp. Far better.

Thord.2017:

I was a Minstrel (Healer) in LOTRO. Standing at the back trying not to steal aggro could be very boring sometimes but that was my character type so I was stuck there, switching to DPS was an option but most of the time all people wanted was a Healer. I rolled a Guardian (tank/aggro guy) just to get some variety.

I find it nice here not to be stuck in one role. I like being able to switch roles without seeing LFG Healer and only being expected to do just that. Heal yourself, whatever I do I can always buff you, remove debuffs, heal a bit with 3/4 of my characters while still dishing out some pretty good DPS. Variety is the spice of life.

That’s what alts are for. You don’t like one, switch.
Here, everything is the same. 0 diversity.
And 0 skill.

FaRectification.5678:

it’s just improving on it and correcting inherent mistakes.

To me it’s more like going back.
Gw1 was innovating while Gw2 is copying other games, getting rid of what was the strenght of gw1.

Roargathor.2743:

If the game is dying then why are most of the servers “Full” and the remaining 7 are “Very High” on the list?

Because it is related to the number of people on a server. Playing or not.

The game may not be dying, because there always will be some hard fanboys on it.
But being delusional is not going to change the fact that many, many people are not playing anymore. And that it sounds pretty bad for the game.
Wanna say I’m awfully wrong? Go learn some history of the last “big-games-we-are-waiting-for-years”. Go check Diablo III forums.
Same posts. Same people tired of a broken game that kitten its predecessor, of a team that can’t fix bugs, and understand what was expected. And by the way, almost the same things were wrong.
And still, fanboyz arguing the game was just alright. Yep. It’s not dead. Because there are still some thousands on it. But from millions.

And I didn’t rush the game. My friends didn’t rush the game. Lvl80 and bored.
Once more, it’s about mechanics, not time played.
Beautiful packaging, but empty. Meaningless.

At this point I think I’m gonna go back to gw1, and wait gw3 to come.

Ahlen.7591:

Alipius.4783:

JaironKalach.4938:

Alipius.4783:

They did, however, take everything I loved. And my brother and sister-in-law.

no offense, but this tells a lot. I know people that are still sticked to the game, and most of them are ~30 or more,. We don’t love the same things in a game.
What I loved in Gw1, and what many “HC” players (for what it means…) loved, was what was different for other games, the intrinsic mecanisms. In comparison Gw2 is oversimplified, and boring (even for the story part…).
Fortunately some still like it, but most don’t.

ROFLMKO… I think I was just called old. ;-)

It’s interesting to me that you find GW2 to be oversimplified. I found GW1 to be oversimplified. PvE was a complete joke. Get your heroes together, grab a variation on Sabway or the later flavors and then destroy it. Dungeons were all SC builds or nothing. PvP was the only place there was a real variation. And there was still an awful lot of FotM at work until you got to the truly competitive ranks.

Added to that, the game fostered a community that was in a lot of ways less about community and more about finding someone to look down on. That’s the one thing I don’t miss about GW1 at all.

In any event, I’m not sure I agree that “most don’t.” But let’s not bother with “look at the posts” “not a statistical sample” “players are leaving” “depends where you look” arguments that go nowhere, and just pretend we did.

That’s true, but it was at the end of the game… And even then, you had a choice, you could make other builds, and play with your brain, because the mecanisms were there. In GW2, you don’t have any choice :/

Yes you do, again this is just your own confirmation bias talking. This is grass is greener syndrome at it’s finest. You THINK GW1 had more choice than GW2, because that is what you have already decided.

Reality will not intrude on this delusion that you have imposed on yourself.

Omg. Take a pen.
A sheet.
And write what is involved in the combats in Gw1, and then in Gw2.
Compare.
Post again.

Edit : let’s say it’s done.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combat
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_mechanics#Combat

So, what’s new? Auto-attack. Yep m’am.
What do we lose?

While all professions have the ability to heal themselves, the strongest healing comes from dedicated healing characters, usually Monks or Ritualists.

Many effects can modify a character’s statistics. Enchantments provide benefits to their targets, such as added defensive abilities or extra Energy. Hexes hinder their targets in various ways. Conditions are a generic set of ailments that can be applied by many skills; many cause Health degeneration over time. A few more exotic types of modifiers exist. Most successful teams have ways to remove Hexes and Conditions from their members; many also have ways to remove Enchantments to break down enemy defenses.

The element of time is quite important. Skills with a long activation time cost a player a great deal of time and are likely to get interrupted; skills that slow opponents or speed up allies are among the most useful in the game.

And I’m the dellusional one.

And if you dare telling me the new wiki is not complete yet, feel free to contribute.

JaironKalach.4938:

Alipius.4783:

They did, however, take everything I loved. And my brother and sister-in-law.

no offense, but this tells a lot. I know people that are still sticked to the game, and most of them are ~30 or more,. We don’t love the same things in a game.
What I loved in Gw1, and what many “HC” players (for what it means…) loved, was what was different for other games, the intrinsic mecanisms. In comparison Gw2 is oversimplified, and boring (even for the story part…).
Fortunately some still like it, but most don’t.

ROFLMKO… I think I was just called old. ;-)

It’s interesting to me that you find GW2 to be oversimplified. I found GW1 to be oversimplified. PvE was a complete joke. Get your heroes together, grab a variation on Sabway or the later flavors and then destroy it. Dungeons were all SC builds or nothing. PvP was the only place there was a real variation. And there was still an awful lot of FotM at work until you got to the truly competitive ranks.

Added to that, the game fostered a community that was in a lot of ways less about community and more about finding someone to look down on. That’s the one thing I don’t miss about GW1 at all.

In any event, I’m not sure I agree that “most don’t.” But let’s not bother with “look at the posts” “not a statistical sample” “players are leaving” “depends where you look” arguments that go nowhere, and just pretend we did.

That’s true, but it was at the end of the game… And even then, you had a choice, you could make other builds, and play with your brain, because the mecanisms were there. In GW2, you don’t have any choice :/

GW1 was incredibly simplified compared to GW2.

Again, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_mechanics#Combat.

JaironKalach.4938:

Alipius.4783:

JaironKalach.4938:

GW2 isn’t GW1. So why do people who love GW1 so much feel the need to complain over and over again about this fact?

Anet

Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1

Q.E.D.

They did, however, take everything I loved. And my brother and sister-in-law.

no offense, but this tells a lot. I know people that are still sticked to the game, and most of them are ~30 or more,. We don’t love the same things in a game.
What I loved in Gw1, and what many “HC” players (for what it means…) loved, was what was different for other games, the intrinsic mecanisms. In comparison Gw2 is oversimplified, and boring (even for the story part…).
Fortunately some still like it, but most don’t.

AcidicVision.5498:

But I’m not sure it’s reasonable to compare the number of activities and options in a game that had over half a decade to build on itself to one that is still less than six months old……

… and designed by the same people, with the experience of the previous game.

JaironKalach.4938:

GW2 isn’t GW1. So why do people who love GW1 so much feel the need to complain over and over again about this fact?

Anet

Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1

Q.E.D.

Nekroseth ? I couldn’t agree more. Exactly how I’m feeling for months now.

[Edit by Moderator]

If there’s a game where you spam one key, it got to be Gw2.
You’re talking about something you can’t even imagine if you didn’t play it : gw1 gameplay.
Monks were not spamming one key, because there were many other things to consider than DPS. Hexes. Conditions. Rupts. KD. And even more if you wanted to be better (weapon switch).
And not only heal could be played, but “prot” too. Prevent dmges. With “enchantments”.
And tank, hey? They were not essential. Not at all. You could go without any melee. Because you had Monks. And REAL control with rupts, hexes, and conditions.

So, you can switch weapons in Gw2, and?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_mechanics

Cry.

It’s great to finally see more and more ex-Gw1 fans telling what they really think about gw2… Maybe they will understand one day…

Everything is said, I hope they’re gonna understand soon…

Satans Chosen.1024:

Someone already mentioned that GW1 had a Hard Mode for all PvE content.

Yes, I think I knew that… thousands of hours spent on gw1… and HM came later.
But there are two things to see, and you (and a lot of people) are seeing only one: is the game “hard” or not?

Yes, I find the game terribly easy ; but the other problem is about “complexity”. Deepness.
Making things work for a casual gamer is a choice, and, to sell a game, I’d say a good choice. Here is the “easy” part.
But we should be able to get better than them thanks to some ability to play the game, understand its mechanisms.
That’s when we can talk about gw1. Interrupting skills, healing skills, a lot of technicity. Interactions between you and your ennemy depending on what each is doing. You don’t find it on gw2.

It’s not only about being hard or easy, what can be easy for me may not be for someone else. But what’s wrong is the choices left to the players. None.
The same mechanisms as gw1 are here, somewhere ; in every hit, every spell.

But preset.

Some associations are left to us, pre-made (stats on weapons….), or so useless in comparison with others that….
God, we were on “Pokemon” at 8, and there was more strategy than here :/

What was great in gw1 were the unlimited possibilities in terms of builds, and the option to have a real reflexion while playing, or, if lazy, to play it more casual. It’s not as if we were alone behind our windows 95, desperate to find a solution alone… Even if there were hundreds of builds, “casual” could still use google, and get something OP 10s later…
But what can we do with an over-easy game? Nothing.
Even mobs are boring… Do you want more HP? Oh yes, please.

AI? Nope, we can’t say there is one.
Big group to defeat, with healers hiding behind some awful mobs with AoE? Nope.
TRUE hexes, enchantments, and remover?
TRUE interrupting skills (not a funny condition)?
And TRUE conditions, that are not only a line on a skill description, skill you’re spamming anyway…
Players are not playing together. No way. They are hitting the same uggly undead, at the same time. But it’s a really big difference.
Gimme a monk and a way to target people. Gimme mez skills and a way to target foe.
Well never mind. Better to play blinded or like a drunk wizard using his spells “approximately in the direction of what makes the biggest noise”.

There is something most people do not understand when they see us “crying” : we’ve spent 7 years on gw1, playing as hard as we’re doing these first weeks, and getting bored only the few months before gw2. We loved that game and what makes it different from WoW and others MMO. But there’s nothing left.

Gw2 is nice, even good, I must admit it. Great work on the maps and all.
But not "gw"2 that much.