Guild Wars 2

I swear I’ve seen this thread before.

Everyone needs to stop calling stealth a crutch. It’s not. If you think it is then you clearly dont know what a crutch actually is. A crutch makes bad players better but makes good players worse. Stealth may allow bad players to do better but it does not make good players worse.

Crutches, the things people use who can’t walk properly for whatever reason is a great example. People who can’t walk properly are the “bad players” and crutches to make up for their inabilities. People who can walk properly are the “good players”. Making then walk with crutches actually hinders their ability to walk.

Now, please stop calling stealth a crutch.

Oh god forbid some classes do certain things better than other classes.

Lokki.1092:

TooBz.3065:

Compare to a guardian (the proclaimed slowest class). The guardian gets 8 seconds of swiftness every 15 seconds with the staff. That’s 7 seconds of normal movement and 8 seconds of swiftness (7*300+8*400=>5300 units / 15 seconds or an average speed of 353 units / second.

So even a guardian is faster than a mesmer.

Note: I was using only a weapon skill. However, blink gives 900 units of movement every 30 seconds, so an additional 30 u/s (provided you are willing to waste it on movement.) However, if we’re wasting utilities, the Guardian as retreat which provides 33% additional uptime of swiftness. So the Guardian will still win.

If you as a mesmer cannot outrun a guardian in combat you are seriously screwing up. I’m sorry but as a guardian myself I can outright say that any class that wants to can just leave combat with us. It is a source of major annoyance for us. Don’t go trivializing our problems with speed because you want to make your class seem slower. Mesmers and guardian are in the same boat when it comes to out of combat movement speed. but Guardians don’t have stealth, blinks, clones, and portals. Mesmers are currently one of the hardest classes to catch in combat because of this, even perm swift elementalists and engineers are hard pressed to keep up with a mesmer who wants to get away.

That is the reason you don’t have a perm 25% boost to movement speed. Compare apples to apples man. Elementalists cant disappear or create clones, they have to move faster. Basic stuff here.

I’m pretty sure thieves can escape combat better than any other class. They too have a 25% movement speed signet.

Aberrant.6749:

Archon.6481:

XII.9401:

Not everyone enjoys being carried by their class -thieves/mesmers/guardians- and pretend it’s skill.

Oh please. Bad thieves/mesmers/guards will die in less than 10 seconds. Good ones however, take much longer.

Dude… lets be honest… even a bad guardian can last longer than 10 seconds. A guard would pretty much have to jump off a cliff to die before then. A bad thief/mes… I agree would die very fast though.

I have killed many bad guards in less than 10 seconds. Your claim = Not true.

Wethospu.6437:

Are you guys aware that you can invite people if someone leaves?

It was still rude of him to leave. Especially since it was his intention from the beginning to only do the first fractal.

Toxsa.2701:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

The problem is you can still be hit by targeted skills after stealth,

The problem is on you. Ranger reacts faster than you and cast their RF BEFORE you enter stealth, deal with it. If you go to stealth sooner, he’ll lose target and couldn’t hit you.

The real problem is too many bad thieves rely too much on stealth as their “oh-kitten” bottom, and think going into stealth = invincible/ solving all problems.

L2P.

What? Are you aware that rapid Fire has an instant cast time? How do you expect the thief to stealth before the instant lock rapid fire? CnD has a half second cast time, and lol if you think d/p can stealth before he instant casts rapid fire.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Sorry, but regardless of whether you play mmorpg or any other video game, there is always a goal to reach … or there is no fun or sense of accomplishment. My hubby loves his xbox. He plays all the games he likes to unlock ACHIEVEMENTS. You might play a game for a few hours without some type of reward, but i dont’t think you would play for 500 hours. I love GW2, but part of what i like is having the chance for loot and achievements.

Have you happen to have played any FPS’s before by any chance? I do believe those games have nothing to strive for. I have thousands of hours into TF2 and got nothing for it.

the krytan assassin.9235:

so as ele i’m gonna lose 125 vit from trait loss, (running 4 in water atm) and losing 225 power. losing another 100 power from removal of applied strength and 250 vit from applied fortitude. gonna need to compensate the loss of vitality by adding extra vitality on my armor so gonna lose another 375 offensive stats, so in the end: -325 power-475 offensive stats.

Yes lets make evry1 hit like a wed noodle, WVW is way to hard!. luckily we don’t have to bother anymore with sieging up/supplies anymore either, it’s so hard to apply tactics in wvw you know!

It looks like Anet is trying evrything to get rid of gw2 and start playing black desert when they do the western release…..

Anet has already said that stat points lost from traits will be made up for increased base stats and increased stats on armor.

Notsure.7028:

I just finished lvling my Ele to 80. I don’t pvp, I am pve exclusively. I have all exotic gear and runes.

I am not the most skilled player, however, I can hold my own. After trying many builds and gear setups in the mists, I have come to the conclusion that anyone who CLAIMS to be able to solo a champ is outright lying or hacking.

It IS NOT possible to solo champs. Don’t even begin to think you can. You will NOT have the survivability, no matter what anyone says. Go ahead and give it a try and see how quickly the champ beats you down.

Now if there are champ mobs out there I don’t know about that are very weak (basically vets with a champ symbol around their name) then I don’t know about them and haven’t tried to solo them.

But any Champ that I have tried to solo couldn’t be done. Again, go ahead and flame me for saying this, but I know what the truth is.

As you were saying?

FooDang.2498:

Archon.6481:

Main Point: Stealth is not a crutch.

ok my previous response got infracted so i guess ill keep this one moderately clean, let me explain why people say stealth is a crutch

you said previously if you make a mistake or low on health you can just perma-stealth until you are full on life again

let play out a scenario

unsuspecting newb: " La La La what a beautiful day in EB let me go and get some supply and run to the zerg"

Thief: "Mwahahahaha I live for this moment!! "
*Stealth
*Instagib

unsuspecting Newb: "AHHhaphuhenfeinsjdfbsahfiu /map I Hate Thieves!!

meanwhile the thief is too busy /laugh to notice the party of 4 jumping him from behind

Thief: "Nooooo, my legs!! help me im too young to die!! if only i had something, anything to help me get back on my feet….oh wait a minute *Stealth

Thief “Mwahahahahahaha!!”

Edit: I’ve beaten my fair share of thieves 1v1, I’m just saying the stealth mechanic rendering the thief unable to be targeted is a crutch and the class itself is a troll class

Since you are clearly not actually reading that post let me explain it again.

A crutch makes bad players better, but makes good players worse.

Training wheels in real life for example. An new bicyclist may use them since they any properly balance themself. An experienced bicyclist however, is perfectly capable of balancing themself and the extra wheels inhibit their ability to turn and manuever.

Crutches (the ones you walk with) are another example. People who are incapable of walking use them so they CAN walk. But people who already can walk, will find it harder to walk with crutches than without.

Stealth can make bad players better because it easily allows you to coverup mistakes, but in what way does stealth inhibit the ability of good players?

To put it simply: It doesn’t.
Ergo, stealth is not a crutch.

domo.4067:

lordkrall.7241:

I think the elitism comment was due to the: “People with higher ranks should get priority”. Which is more or less the definition of elitism. Giving people advantages due to them being “better”.

people with ranks 200+ are a lot less likely to be rally bots unlike a john doe with rank 5.

So bad players have no right to play the game they payed for because you don’t like it? I’m R68. 95% of that is from roaming. And after doing it as long as I have, rank 200s usually tend to be free kills.

In wvw it’s a big deal. I’ve been in many, many fights where I won or lost by only a few hundred health.

You all are missing the point. Lets say Mike, John, and Bob are at the gauntlet. Mike is in the gauntlet, John is waiting in line, and Bob is dead. If bob stays dead, then Mike and John only have one person to wait for. But if they rez Bob, they will have to instead wait for two people instead of one.

glock.6590:

It looks like an L2p issue to me. I never used shadow arts so I dont know how it feels like but even then if you die to this trait , you should look into your own gameplay .

If you had actually died to this trait before, then you would know how frustrating it is. It is badly designed that can cause you to kill yourself. You shouldn’t have to monitor your health and then suddenly “stop attacking” just as you near 25% of your health just to avoid dying. Traits should not give you a death sentence.

HeliaXDemoN.1208:

Find the kitten damage on this pics:

http://i.imgur.com/BWmHLBO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IlL49CI.jpg

Do you have nothing better to do than whine that you aren’t very good at fighting thieves?

Viking Jorun.5413:

Archon.6481:

30/30/10 is the best sustained damage.

Weapons are D/D (or S/x) and shortbow.
Armor is full zerker with scholar runes.

You’re better off taking offhand pistol for defensive blinds. CnD does a lot of damage but it doesn’t prevent you from getting hit.

The title very clearly states: pure damage, and D/D does in fact out damage D/P.

Oh you silly people. Evon isn’t buying your vote. He’s simply reminding you to vote and giving you a bit of silver as a thank gift for taking your time to vote. He is just trying to be nice and you’re accusing him of bribery.

30/30/10 is the best sustained damage.

Weapons are D/D (or S/x) and shortbow.
Armor is full zerker with scholar runes.

1. This build is worthless in anything larger than 1v1

2. These players suck

bhagwad.4281:

You cannot defend yourself anyway! Your insta 300k attack is not a defensive skill. It is offensive.

All offensive skills are by definition defensive. This is because all offensive skills carry the threat of being used, which is defensive. When I fight other thieves, I’m really cautious about using heartseeker through black powder because I’m worried about it being interrupted. As soon as they used steal or are blinded though, I can ignore that fear and heartseeker away because they no longer have the threat of using their offensive skill (steal/headshot).

bhagwad.4281:

Whether it misses or loses, you have the same defense you did before. Not sure how using it puts you in a worse position

Neither the US nor the USSR were willing to use their nuclear weapons due to the threat of mutual assured destruction. Nuclear weaopns are clearly offensive weapons. However, the threat of nuclear retaliation prevented one side from using their own nukes, as this would cause the other side to retaliate. That is to say, the possessing of offensive weapons prevented an attack. That is defense. The owning of offensive weapons acts as a deterrent (defense) against an enemy. The threat of my 300k skill keeps the enemy at bay. He may avoid me, might run away, might fight extremely cautiously, because one slip up and he could be dead. But as soon as my skill misses, the threat of instant death disappears and my enemy will drop his inhibitions and easily kill me as I no longer have any way of defense. A little cliched, but the best defense is a good offense.

bhagwad.4281:

Next, a necro doesn’t really lose his other skills on entering DS because he can exit death shroud at any time if he needs those skills. You might want to play necro just a little bit to understand how it works. Just create a new necro character and try out DS skills. You’ll see that a necro is not locked into DS at any time.

You misunderstand. Yes, the necro can switch out at any time, but what I mean is that the necro cannot immediately use his weapon skills. He has to leave death shroud then use them. That puts death shroud on CD. That prevents him from using his death shroud skills because he had to leave. This is another opportunity cost (Do I want to enter death shroud? Because if I do and I then need my staff skills I just screwed myself).

bhagwad.4281:

In fact, your examples of “opportunity cost” illustrate that you don’t really understand what I’m referring to. I’m saying “the act of using a class mechanic like steal” has no opportunity cost. Sure, you can choose to steal this, or you can choose to steal that. Not the point. When I say “steal itself has no opportunity cost”, what I mean is that by using it you don’t lose health, you don’t lose defence, you don’t lose power, or boons.

I see the problem. You are using the incorrect definition of opportunity cost. Opportunity cost by definition encompasses “I could’ve stolen this or that”. You’re incorrect in that steal does not cost you health or defense or power. Opportunity cost include damage that you take that you would’nt have taken had you not stolen or had stolen from someone else, and includes damage I could’ve dealt had I not stolen or stolen from someone else. If I steal and it puts me in melee range of a warrior and that warrior hits me, that is opportunity cost. I wouldn’t have taken that damage, and it is therefore an opportunity cost, it is just not expressed immediately. I’m sorry, but you need to learn what opportunity cost actually is. You are absolutely wrong when you say that

bhagwad.4281:

In economic terms, there is no opportunity cost to you using steal.

because there is choice. In any scenario given a resource and choices of what to do with it, there will always be an economic opportunity cost. I’m sorry but you are wrong—you are using the incorrect definition of opportunity cost. Please drop this idea and use the correct definition of opportunity cost.

bhagwad.4281:

In fact, every decent thief has a trait that gives might, fury and swiftness regardless of whether or not steal succeeds.

I’m pretty sure I wasn’t using that trait before 6/23

Johje Holan.4607:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

I will agree to this change if you agree to the following change:

Get rid of all damage bonuses for attacking from stealth.

There are no damage bonuses for attacking from stealth.

Deal.