Guild Wars 2

In which world does it make sense to treat new customers better than existing ones?!?!?

Sorry but this is just wrong!

There is no new character slot for the new profession?!?!??!
This is just beyond me.
I completely fail to understand this.

Don’t get me wrong, I couldn’t care less about the price but I will never support a game company that is seriously lacking some common sense…….

[/hype]

Title should say “… clear[er]…” but was too long.

I’ve always been interested in the competitive GW2 scene, and I would love to spectate the matches between really good teams more often.
But every time I do (like during the Stronghold beta right now), I’m put off because it’s too hard/confusing to follow the action.

There are many reasons why it’s much harder to follow a GW2 match than for example a MOBA like LoL.

Some things like the variety of skills each character can use or the speed of combat cannot be changed of course. But there other things that would make spectating so much easier.

1) Differently-colored health bars.
It really boggles my mind why such an obvious thing hasn’t been addressed yet. The PCs of both teams have green health bars (the enemy NPCs have red bars though….). This makes it very hard to follow the fast-paced GW2 combat.
-> Green health bars (friendly), red bars (hostile) and always visible, not only when PC is focused on
*not sure but color-blind people may need different colors (blue & red?)

When spectating you should be able to easily identify the different teams. Every information that doesn’t support clarity should go, such as

2) No name plates or character titles.
They only distract from the important informaton and that is the health bar (and profession).

BTW if you compare how information is displayed in LoL and Dota2, you realize that LoL does a much better job. The slightly different colors Dota2 uses for PCs of the same team are unnecessary, unintuitive and have always made it very confusing and hard for me to follow the action.

I strongly believe it’s these little things that make a good esports title a great esports title. And for me as a spectator visual clarity is the most important aspect.

3) Make professions easier to identify.
This might not be easy to achieve but I think it’s equally important.
Of course you could argue that once you see the spell/skill effects it’s clear that the PC is a thief or necro but my problem with it is that it’s not as easy as it could be and it again makes it harder to see what’s going on at first glance.

Some of the reasons that seem to blur all the characters into one unidentifiable mass are:
a) Professions don’t have a distinct look, i.e. are not easily identifiable.
They can wield similar weapons and wear similar armor.
b) Professions can be played by all races.
The races itself are easily identifiable but the professions they play aren’t.
So when I see an Asura, my first reaction is: Ahh an Asura but I can’t tell at the same split second whether he’s an Asura elementalist, or Asura thief, or ranger or even warrior….

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to change any of this. Character customization is one of the strong points of GW2 but it doesn’t help when spectating matches.

So even when the PCs are only running around and not spamming their abilities, you should be able to recognize their professions AT ONCE!

Possible solutions:
1) Every profession has an easily recognizable armor dye.
2) Every profession displays an easily recognizable icon, and by easy I mean much clearer and bigger icons than those we have now. The icons should be visible on the mini map as well.
3) A combination of both.
4) Anything really that makes me see which character and team I’m looking at.

tl;dr:
Visual clarity has to be priority no 1!
Teams and professions have to be recognizable at once! Within a split-second!
Because GW2’s action and camera movement are too fast-paced to make spectating accessible or fun.

Arc

Sorry for the long text but this has really bugged me since day1 of sPvP, even before spectating became a thing.

Matipzieu KyA.9613:

…

(5) This creates feelings of (i) anger over the unfairness, (ii) a sense that players need to choose between their friends and accessing content, (iii) a sense that small guilds are not acceptable, (iv) a sense that small guilds are not viable, leadin to (v) small guilds rapidly being emptied or broken up, (vi) and many players abandoning their guilds to join larger ones.

It is crucial for MMO developers to understand that their games live or die by access to content and the long-standing social interactions formed.

…

Haven’t logged in to the forums in a while but just had to in order to give this brilliant post/poster my +1

Anyways, I saw that many people have already highlighted this excellent post but I will happily do the same. Especially since it saves me the trouble of writing the lengthy post I had planned, which would more or less include the same thoughts and feelings (well, not quite so well stated of course).

ANet, you should really watch your manifesto before implementing new content. I had tears in my eyes when I first watched it. Now I have tears too but not because of joy.

2 suggestions that might make the situation a little better:
[b]
1) Introduce a new tier of bounty missions that can be done with 3-5 players.

2) Grant access to this tier at once! That is, you can unlock it at tier 0 in the Art of War section at NO cost. [/b]

No harm done, you still have all the progression you want to have in place (even though I dare call it grind because I know the grind when I see it…) and long-term guild commitment
but you don’t exclude a large part of the player base (and thus alienating them) and you have the short-term accessibility every game system needs.

Seriously, ANet, what were you thinking?
I honestly wish you better luck/insight next time.

Arc

To make it absolutely clear:
I wouldn’t care if this was any other game but it really hurts because GW2 is such a great game, has so many ingenious design ideas – I really love it. Couldn’t say that about any of the other 12+ MMORPGs I’ve played since DAoC ( I didn’t play GW1).

That’s why it’s so painful to see it take a u-turn.

Thanks though to all the devs who voiced their concerns about this change. I know you are out there.

Demarc.4906:

Have to echo most of the posters in this thread.

Usually i read the forums and say very little, in this case i feel i should leave a quick post with my opinions.

I’ve played the carrot games, the power creep games and sure at the time I enjoyed them. I came to GW2 after reading that there would be none of this in the game. As an older and more casual player now the lack or power creep appealed to me. I could log in, run some dungeons or WvWvW with friends and not worry that in my absence I had fallen behind. The fact that I could choose to do things at my own pace and set goals that i actually wanted to do, as opposed to felt i had to do in order to maintain a given gear score was the major selling point of this game for me.

So I’ve gotten 3 characters to 80, the wife who plays with me has 2 more. We’ve spent a few bucks here and there getting extra bank slots, bag slots and trans stones etc. We got the gear we liked and then worked on the cosmetic aspect. About done on my Guardian and Ranger, got them looking nice and geared out to do whatever I pleased. As crafters we made most of our gear and transmuted it for the looks we wanted. A few pieces here and there for some stat combos from dungeons or whatever and life was good.

Now come to find there is a new tier coming. TBH i’ve not logged in since i read the initial article on MMORPG.com. Colour me dissapointed.

The new tier is a smack in the face when i’ve used cash to convert my existing gear to models i like only to find that if i was to continue playing then i’d have to grind out new sets of gear and then hand over more cash to get the looks i want back.

For shame Anet.

I’ll still be around for the launch of the patch, but if things goes as i expect from the Dev posts i wont be here long. There are other games out there that do the carrot / power creep thing better than GW2 so why would i hang around? Dont even mention the lack of a $15 a mo sub since i can tell you honestly i’ve spent way more than $15 a mo on GW2 anyway … other power creep games would actually SAVE me money with thier sub fees and do it better (IMO)

This is not a threat, i’m still here and will still play abit after the patch to feel the waters, but if Anet continues down the path of a game design that others do better, my major reason for playing thier game as opposed to another will be gone. I’ll just reevaluate if this really is the game i want to play over them ….

Exactly how I feel!

Even though I have logged in during the last 2 days, I haven’t moved my char at all, no DE, no jumping puzzle, no pistol shot fired, didn’t even look at WvW standings – apathy, total lack of motivation.

I just came on to tell my RL friends and guild mates about the upcoming design changes…
to say the least, they weren’t amused either.

And I feel really bad because I talked them into buying GW2, persuaded them to give MMOs one more chance. I’ve spent countless hours praising and advertising this game.

GW2 was a dream come true………….

Yunni.8296:

I would like to express my disappointment in the direction this game is going. I guess it’s worthless now to continue to work on acquiring my exotics? That’s what it feels like to me. Please reconsider this move.

Good point!
Gear progression always adds this awful period of time before every new content update where you see no point in continuing to play because everything will be worthless anyway after the update.

Also, gear treadmill leads to burnout – I’m pretty sure about that.

Once you realize that your actions are pointless, you become frustrated and after a while you quit.

The carrot might work for donkeys (really mean the animals, no insult intended!), it doesn’t work for me – I actually take this system as an insult to my intellect. Do they really think I can be manipulated that easily – conditioned like Pavlov’s dogs?

JK Arrow.7102:

I’m going to post this assuming it will be lost amidst the other 7500+ posts if for no other reason that I felt the need to voice my opinion.

There is no reason to add another layer of gear to the game. We understood the idea that exotics are the highest tier and legendaries are a special skin version of them. This ideal alone means most other tiers of items are basically worthless. With the addition of ascended gear it just makes the previous top tier of exotic equally as worthless. Masterwork gear is sold for between merch value and something below crafting value. Rares are sold for a value that varies with the cost of ectos. Exotics will most likely now follow suite.

I don’t even have an exotic set for any of my characters so it doesn’t affect me directly. But it does change the way the community views gear and therefore indirectly affects me. Sure the stats may be only slightly better, but in games like this there is the best gear and there is everything else. If you don’t think it will matter, look back to prior games and see how many times more items with max stats sell for than items with max -1 stats.

I’m growing increasingly frustrated playing this game. I’ve put about 350 playing hours in thus far which is a far cry from the 5000 or so I put in to GW1. Rather than enjoying the playing experience, I find myself upset about numerous things: the terrible camera bounce and zoom, appearance of unequal collision boxes, the leashing and invulnerable enemies, the chain knockdowns, nonstop spawning adds, in and out of combat movement differences, loneliness of the zones, bugging dungeons and DE’s, underwater combat, the inaccuracy that all zones are end game, and I could go on but nobody really cares.

In the end I’m hoping that I once again find the joy in playing the game like I did in the first Guild Wars. In that I know I’m not alone. But from the sounds of all the complaints so far, Anet has more immediate issues by opening this can of worms and having to deal with this kitten storm.

You voice some valid concerns, mate.

Sorry, but I’m not buying it.
With the first major content update they have added higher stats to gear (and quite unnecessary too – that’s what worries me most)
AND
they will do it again. Period.
Not only is this the beginning of gear grind
but it also introduces content gating, which will quickly result in a gap in the community – there are enough examples to serve as evidence (e.g. LotRO radiance content gating)

Instead of adding all these artificial systems, they should have introduced challenge modes and rankings and nice shiny trophies (cups, ribbons, standards, statues, mini pets, whatever…) to carry around so hardcore players can show the world that they are the best.
Problem solved.

ANet, you have opened a door that should have stayed shut.

Pandinus.9073:

I can’t recall when a game made me so feel so shattered and angry. This game felt like it was crafted perfectly for me, I could get the max stats with ease and the only variable after any of that in any situation, be it pve or pve, was skill.

I will not tolerate any more increase in stats, I’ve had 10 years of this garbage and I signed up for GW2 precisely for the horizontal progression. I will not log on or give you one more cent from my wallet until I see these ascended items vanish. The players that wanted a gear ladder cried very loudly but for the most part they are all gone AND ARE NEVER COMING BACK. Stay true to your design philosophy, remove these kitten items.

If not the only thing I will ascend from is guild wars 2 itself.

Exactly my words!

Eveningstar.6940:

The real casualty from this debate is not going to be measured in departing players. It will not be measured in a change in the atmosphere of the forum, and it will not be measured by the collective angst of the community.

I’m not going to slide down a slippery slope of anxiety and decry Guild Wars 2 as somehow ruined, or predict the game becoming a staid clone of Warcraft two years down the road. I think that’s a gross exaggeration of the circumstances based on very little evidence.

I won’t get into a shouting match by taking sides in the perennial Casual v Hardcore debate. That’s a facetious fight and one that won’t ever end, and decrying Casuals for ruining the game with their whining or Hardcore players for ruining the game with their demands just blatantly misses the point.

I don’t care about the gear grind, or Ascended gear. So you have a new tier of gear with an Infusion mechanic about as innovative as Fire Resist/Nature Resist or Radiance. Great. Fine, whatever. I’m still going to play this game. I’m still going to participate in the Guardian community. I’m still going to level my alts. I’m still going to participate in seasonal events.

The real casualty here isn’t my money (I’m not spending any anyway, besides the occasional purchase on the Gem Store). The real casualty here is good will.

The real casualty is credibility. GW2 was designed on the passions of a development team with a very specific design philosophy: Buck the Trinity, make the game accessible for everyone, and toss out gear progression. Just like in GW1, gear was supposed to “stop” at Exotic and not inflate beyond that. You’d get your Exotics, and you were done gearing. Now you could do what you wanted. Now you were free. You were ready for all the content the game could throw at you. Gear should not be a gateway for more content. Gear should not be something you should keep up with.
That was the principle on which ArenaNet built its good will. That was the basis of the trust it cultivated between itself and its community.

Credibility is a form of capital: hard to define, hard to measure, hard to build, and very easy to lose.
I’m still going to play this game. I’m still going to level alts, explore the world, collect exotics and try new builds. But I’m a lot less enthusiastic about the game today than I was last week. And I’m far, far less likely to trust ArenaNet in the future. I’m not leaving; I’m not voting with my feet or my wallet.

ANet hasn’t lost my subscription because there wasn’t one to begin with. They haven’t lost my interest because I still love the game they’ve created. What they have lost is my good will, and that’s not something I give lightly, and it’s also not something anyone else values except me.

But it is what it is.

Well said, Eveningstar.

I still can’t believe the news.
I don’t know how often I’ve watched the GW2 dev panels, tears in my eyes, adoring the people that dared to change the tiring MMO formula, and above all make a truly social game. Then I played the beta, and surprise, everything they said was true.

Now…
I feel totally let down.
The devs seemed so smart, sincere, just very likable…
Something is seriously wrong.

Oh well, RL goes on
but what a pity.

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

So just because they add new content with a few upgrades to equipment they’re trying to steal players from other games? They’re trying to imitate that horrible kitten game that just imitated everything before it?

Get a kitten clue man. WoW was not the first MMO and it is definitely not the best. Nor will it last forever. Times changes; games get new content. Just because there’s a little vertical progression doesn’t mean it’s going to destroy anything.

Who’s to say this won’t just turn into a diagonal progression then flatter back out to horizontal?

It absolutely is destroying the manifesto on which the game was designed and on which we purchased and played it.

No vertical progression beyond end game exotics. Period. Cosmetic progression only.

All arguments about the degree of which are irrelevant. Any vertical progression is counter to their design and unacceptable to us.

Quoted for truth.

ANet, what went wrong that you so drastically change your design principles?
Everyone I know loves this game!
Do you need money?
I will happily donate € 15,- each month if you stick to your horizontal prorgession approach. I will even pay for any of your free game updates!

The Halloween update was amazing, finally completing the clock tower jumping puzzle one of my greatest gaming moments.
Did I do it because of the loot? The stats on the exotic boots?
No! I did it because it was challenging and insanely fun. Period.

I’m willing to spend a lot of money on fun content like that but I won’t spend a MINUTE of my time on yet another stat treadmill!!!

Seems like it’s LotRO’s radiance gear all over again. It was a bad idea in LotRO and it will be a bad idea in GW2.
It effectively split LotRO’s community into the elitist “radiance players” and the rest.

ANet, look at this thread and you can already catch a glimpse of what will become of this community.

Fnar.7064:

Just adding my voice that I am opposed to this idea. Ever since I read about it, I have desired less to play the game knowing that my characters will eventually reach a point where I have to consider this tiered item progression.

I’m another player who bought into this game, and convinced my girlfriend and several friends to play, because we were ready for a change to this exact mechanic. If this truly is the course for the game, we aren’t going to support it by spending any money in the item store and our playtime will continue to wane as it already has.

It’s a shame, too. I loved this game until I read this news. Literally fell completely in love with it. But with this news that feeling seems to have completely evaporated. I hope ArenaNet reconsiders based on this feedback, but since it is right on the horizon I have doubts that will happen.

I feel exactly the same. I’m actually in some kind of shock – no desire to launch the game since head start.
Why should I even try to get my exotic gear when it will be obsolete in no time? It feels so pointless now.

I also got all my friends into this game and they were amazed by GW2’s design philosophy: horizontal progression – finally – ingenious! No need to hurry or grind in order to stay on par with the rest of the players.

Now I just feel like going back to my LotRO lifetime sub and grinding out yet another legendary weapon tier….. what difference does it make? All MMOs are the same… again……………………………… (might as well buy MoP now)

April Fools?

Seriously – this must be a joke.

But I’m not laughing……

I can’t express how appaled I am about ANet’s decision to add a gear stat treadmill to this game.

Not only did they introduce a gate to higher-end content (i.e. Agony), but they also made the new items more powerful stat-wise!

Why is that?!?!
If they want to gate one kind of gameplay (dungeons), why do they also have to impact other aspects of the game, such as WvW?!!?
They could have just introduced a new item type that still has the same stats as exotics with an additional slot for Infusions.
Where is the need to also increase the stats?

I am really disappointed, disgusted about this change. The main reason I left all the other games was because of the gear stat treadmill – I’m NOT going that way again. Ever.

Bottomline:
Bad move, ANet! Take it back! It’s not too late yet.