Guild Wars 2

hardest part of playing warrior now is unlearning it
no more headbutt, no more arc divider, casting times detrimental to fluidity, too obvious, can’t break headbutt animation with movement etc…hell make it slower even by adding an other 0.25s to it but give me a 0.5s invul @ the start of it lol. might be worth using for the invul and movement it would produce only.

Cynz.9437:

Crinn.7864:

Cynz.9437:

Just putting a perspective. If according to you d/p is so broken, what did it make a warrior that has nearly twice HP pool, by far better sustain and higher dmg?

Because warriors don’t have extra evades, and have to take everything to the face? Because warriors don’t have teleports and stealth?

so you think it is ok for a class to have high sustain and high dmg just because they can’t port all over the map?

Yes actually, yes.

I really dislike the cast time changes, I could easily learn to play with Endure pain change, ok, and some boon stacking, but the cast times mess up all the fluidity I built up playing the class, and it’s not a nice thing to feel.

Used to be able to rely on headbutt to try to pin a thief stealing me and snag some form time to time…I can’t really expect that to happen anymore as delay is real and doesn’t land @ moment target could be hit by the skill.

I wouldn’t have minded this cast time if like bull charge it would hit according to proximity.

Would give me a chance to get a thief steal if I’m fast enough, otherwise he’s out of range…

Gain experience, develop skills, make skill shine doing so, nerf skill…search for next usable setup to get nerfed later for the same reasons…

So I’m going on vacation leaving january 21st. Will be totally unable to play before season end, and so my decay will result in my end of season MMR being @ a decayed rating.

Will my decayed rating be used in soft MMR reset next season with extra grind to do to or is it only an apparent penalized MMR score and my start of next season will in fact be my end of season score without the decay?

So

MMR + decay +1200/2
or
MMR +1200/2

I’d hate it to be the first option…

Cynz.9437:

You realize that match stats heavily favor bunkers/bruisers? Roamers almost never get stats due to… well roaming (given balanced match they will never have high dmg because half of the time they are roaming, same goes for healing, revives etc.). +1 never awards any stats simply because you jump in, down someone and run off – you don’t exactly get much credit for it. Your teammate is dying, you drop stealth for him and save him – it won’t show up on stats. Peeling for teammates is not shown on stats. Keeping 3 enemies busy on beach is not shown on stats. Roamers have huge impact on game but it is not registered.

That’s why I had originally started this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-economy-of-worth-in-PvP-Discuss

because it’s game specific.

While all the above is real interesting, it doesn’t seem to respond to the player’s “feeling of deservedness”, aka there is no good return on individual skill in said matches. This is why over time you keep hearing about top points in matches or top stats now, but can’t really know if the value/participation/impact of each player is adequately reflected by any current scoring system other than if in the end the team won or lost. And even then…you might have done everything you could possibly do to win on your side, but some other guy from your team could throw game momentum by making a mistake or worse being bad.

There is more to players than win/loss, thought in the end it is a main factor.

there is also:

• self worth/assessment – mechanical skills and decision making
• impact on team – tactical decision making
• and the human relationship factor that come into play as well…

Cause lets face it, you could be an ace but have 0 affinity with the ace next to you and just want to ruin the game for him at the cost of the other 3 players who have nothing to do with your dispute.

So since the current system doesn’t allow each player to get a good feedback on their play from the system, they are left to estimate this themselves, and rarely do you get constructive feedback from other players. I got blocked a couple times simply explaining why this or that happened in a match while the other player was salty, and wouldn’t have ever happened if it didn’t follow a lost match anywhere else in the game.

So the emotional aspect of the game is high in spvp, even in unranked pvp.

Most people have a hard time looking @ themselves and see where they made mistakes and work on improving their game…that usually comes with the price of “hurt”.

All this talk about people with regards to changing the current system is related to these elements imo, could be more or a little different, probably not too much off target.

euh that’s your rating buddy…his rating is with the appropriate score…so just below plat atm.

They should simply make traps more like thief traps (a line) or ranger size (small rinky dink circle)

that would completely remove all guards from your matches and you’d have no more worries!!! how brilliant is that!

I’m not suggesting anything…not even learning to deal with this type of super common scenario that could improve your gameplay.

alright, maybe I should spend a little time playing engi to get more familiar with combos that allow that…cds and etc

Having a hard time solo cleaving to kill the gyro, while engi revives with it…

What am I possibly doing wrong or is it simply cause engi was smart enough to buff it with protection or something else to give it more resistance? Either way I thought a good cleave (like 100 blades) could take care of it when applied promptly, but seems not the case.

don’t be too harsh on the relatively new to ranked pvp guy…He probably fought those same build eles before but since it was only for his dailies, didn’t care about losing that much. Now that there is more on the line, not only him but everyone wants to win and are now somewhat more observant of how some things work.

Of course that doesn’t go hand in hand with inquiring about how thing DO work…

Now if you’re a little curious, on it all go to metabattle and take a look at some sample builds and how their rotations work and why this or that skill is used and then try to add those puzzle pieces to tweak how you play. That’s really what pvp is about.

Team decision making and rotation apart:

• A decent player knows his class.

• A great player also knows the other’s, and learned to play in accordance to that.

omg…I never looked up that trait! I missed something big! hahaha

you would have been better off suggesting a 9 second cooldown for element swap, same as weapon swap…with weapon swap rune affecting time reduction for element swap same as weapon…than this suggestion….

I’d add extra matches before an official placement. Show a provisionnary placement after 10 matches and count the next 30 matches towards placement as well with no extra weight carried by any match in particular. Remove the matches that might seem aberrant and then give a placement according to the remaining data.

Aberrant matches would be matches with a DC in any team, a match with a player being idle for too long (movement only not counting as breaking idle status), and matches where a player seems to be manipulating match result.

Out of 40, you might get ~30 good matches in average, that is I expect 15-25% of matches played to have some kind of aberrant situation for some of you, if my experience is any indicative of anything.

Once placement has been locked, then move on with regular progression.

that is win more vs higher mmr, lose less vs them and win less vs low mmr lose more vs low mmr.

visit my thread on The Economy of worth and add your ideas there.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-economy-of-worth-in-PvP-Discuss

They need to get something constructive to help them. Pointing at an open wound and stating it’s an open wound doesn’t help it heal it’self, it’s just stating the obvious.

I started that thread hoping to get people to part take in in and ideally to also have their economist take a look and give it some thought. Economy is currency and choice based, well time is currency and you constantly make choices in game, could get into other examples but you get it.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You realize that you have been with and against players close to your Mmr since they told us how they did the Soft reset, (Previous Mmr+1200)*.5

The reason I see that they soft reset is probably due to the horrible abuse of the previous system.

Well this little bit is nice to know.

Are they going to use the data about individual matches for player contributions in % to try to make any relevant assessment of skills?

Like I mentioned, current system, at this time needs some tweaking, I’d be somewhat relieved if it was a v.1.0 say and that a vision of v.2.0 or whatever evolution of the system was the goal.

Seriously Evan if you guys plan anything ask yourselves this question: Would the current system upset anyone in it’s current form? and why? If you have your own reservations about your own system, you could even mention what they are and goal/intentions, when you expose yourself like this you’ll probably find that people will be more lenient/understanding and willing to provide positive feedback. I’d hate having to read negative things about something I worked hard on, I bet you do too.

That said, here is what I think:

Even if you have 0.5% of the people placed in top division @ startup it’s wrong if most people feel they don’t deserve to be where they belong because of some normal distribution. And while being able to see your placement vs leaderboard and friends, if you played lots with them and you know where your true skill level should be at (guesstimate) you’re more enclined to feel cheated by having a rating that is not conform with your self image.

Startup should not be a normal, and everything earned, no freebies. Narrow to 1 standard deviation at most and have it so that within that range mmr may fluctuate rapidly enough that it might reach a decent point.

But you still have the issue of not adressing individual skill and starting by putting together 10 random people and hoping that something significant will come out of this. That’s just not gonna happen. To have anything at least remotely significant you’re looking @ min of 13 matches with a decent population where you can identify/classify people @ the start and you don’t even have that when you start everyone @ about a same skill rating. So how can you hope to be fairly representative at all knowing this?

My answer is what I’m trying to get people to explore in my thread about Economy of Worth in PvP, aka determining a single player’s worth in every match through measuring positive behaviours and negative ones to establish a more accurate baseline, since then you’ll not be comparing teams formed up of random people but comparing actual people to people.

I’m not trying to diss anything just stating reasons why upset people are speaking up. Love that you guys wanted to make a change, I think that’s in the right track, this just might not yet be the right track, either you can tweak it to something that actualy works or you might need to consider other options.

Lets keep an open mind.

Could you shed more light on the innerworkings of match placement? Did you use previous pvp data to do trial runs vs various other team setups to validate/invalidate placement?

aka
from 10 matches.
if I had previous mmr of 1800, place me with equivalent previous mmr players and then test us against:

• Game 1: 1000 mmr team, if win add +200, if loss -100
• Game 2: 1200 mmr team, if win add +200, if loss -100
• Game 3: 1400 mmr team, if win add +200, if loss -100
• Game 4: 1600 mmr team, if win add +200, if loss -100
• Game 5: 1800 mmr team, if win add +200, if loss -100
• Game 6: 1700 mmr team, if win add +100, if loss -50
• Game 7: 1800 +100 win, -50 loss
  and so on, narrowing and testing limit again until you have a clearer placement with no default assignement…

Could you elaborate? ty.

Here is what gets people: Having a low or negative team mmr telling them they are bad when they themselves think they are or are better than what the team puts them to be.

So in the example above of where you’d have a 1,4,6,8,10 vs 2,3,5,7,9 type of setup, you’re bound to have at least 2 unhappy players with good reason, assuming there is a wide enough gap in true skill and not mmr.

Either the 8 & 10 from team 1 if they lose, or the 7 and 9 from team 2 if they lose. That’s 40% of the losing team who feels justified in being frustrated because they don’t feel that they are adequatly represented by the matrch outcome. all htat because too often the 1,4 (6 maybe too) or the 2,3 (5 probably too) screws the match up for them.

and being carried or carrying should not be a big part of league play. unranked…sure people got to play to get good and there is not the incentive to be good in the same manner that league is percieved, since it is a competitive environment and people can now see what the current system thinks of them, however scewed by randomness it is at the moment because of lack of matches played.

While I understand a need to have “x” matches played to have an accurate rating for your system, I am 100% sure that over 80% people’s expectations is to have something they feel representative by the end of the qualifying matches. And the movement thereafter being also rng aka vs what mmr team you’re facing seems to not favor self image in the slightest.

Perhaps higher rewards for wins to reach a plateau would be better since people could test their true skill faster would ease this feeling. It would seem expected that a skill would plateau @ their actual skill level, and that even if mmr would be measured on a smaller moving average, that true skill would occillate within a certain range. and that would be the actual true skill level of a player given the team makeups he got till then.

I like the new stats shown, however they have no impact on your mmr rating which will determine the kind of people you will be paired up with. Especially early in season, rng counts for so much that your initial rating is pure luck with whom you got paired up, noobs or other good players and your starting point is the same.

The grind from there is not representative of your actual skill level but rather where luck would have you and it’s a grind to get to your actual mmr score to reflect your skill level. Both good and bad, because it’s based exclusively on wins/losses.

All can agree that it’s what you do as an individual player contributing to giving your team an advantage that sets you appart as being good or bad player.

And yes I do believe that some players should deserve high mmr skills because they make great decisions over being a great 1v1 player, be it decaps, confusing multiple foes, defending against multiple foes, anything that would give a 1 man advantage for some time is good imo if the amount of time surpasses any penalty you would incur your team for dieing doing that practice.

From Flaw in placement Matches:

Cynz.9437:

Bardly.2571:

I don’t understand how this was supposed to be more indicative of your personal ability. You already have the framework for “Top Kills, Top Heal, Top Defense”. . .just use those.

Ideally, the people who are at the TOP of their games, will continually move up. . .

It doesn’t need to be that complicated.

Because top stats don’t necessary say much. For example as guard or ele you can kill necro minions 24/7 and get insane dmg numbers because of it but not actually kill anyone, as thief you do lowest dmg in game but the dmg you do actually scores kills.
The game is also not as great at tracking buffs like tranq or constant decaps.
What if enemy is trying to kill your Lord and you will lose match if you don’t defend it – you won’t get great stats for it but you probably saved the match for your team.

What if someone is training your necro and you peel for them and then run off to decap – you also won’t get great stats despite saving the fight and the match.

My friend is dying and i drop stealth for him to save him – it won’t show up on stats.

Those stats are very unforgiving for roamers from my experience so far. Most common i get ironically are rezzes for teammates (lol sr) and kills when i am running like murder machine around. My friend plays engi – he usually ends up with 4 stats every match. We do our jobs, just in different ways but stats don’t reflect it.

Couple things he mentions in here can be represented by stats noted above, in rezzes, time to kill (quick kills), and so on. All he says is relevant and there is a way to reflect it in a scoring system once we have a working list.

I don’t see why he should be penalized if he joined back within small amount of time and team won PERIOD.

/start sarcasm

for any who are happy about his misfortune, I wish you the same and then come back to talk about how happy you were to be penalized when you had a short DC, came back and won the match with the rest of your team, also how happy you were you got dishonor for 40 minutes and how that gave you ample time to consider changing internet connection cause there must be a better/cheaper provider somewhere out there right?

end sarcasm/

you could have posted this under your previous post you’re saying about the same thing :/

it’s not really indicative of anything atm at the soloQ level, not enough matches played to have a clearly idendentifiable value of your true skill…

Though in the end this might get you where you should be, it might never get the chance to do so since your first matches are widely rng based and will affect your starting score as well as your whole morale towards the whole event as time goes on if rng doesn’t straighten it’self out quickly.

Though algorithm wise alone, it might balance out, unless they can get a reading of persistance in adverse situation for “x” estimated score, and # of matches/time to get there, people can just give up and renders the whole thing bogus. Because first win/loss count for too much variation, and are based on rng.

Then how can you be matched up evenly against other teams with ratings as scewed as yours? and then the vicious cycle begins for some and others get lucky.

Ok before being able to put up any kind of rating system for anything like this we’d need to be able to come up with some “equivalences”.

So for example, if 1 kill is worth 10 points, how much time in combat without dieing would be equal to that?

say if I kill on average 10 foes per match and spend of my average 10 minute match 5 minutes in combat, and that I die twice in the game, are my combat minutes worth more than my kills alone? are they equal or worth more?

Kills can be the result of long fought battles 1v1 many vs many or just the result of an easy opportunity. They weigh favorably in the match outcome for your team taking out an opponent for the 10s until they get to respawn and the travel time until they get back in the action, so probably closer to 20s advantage for your team.

It seems pretty clear that if I hold out 2 people in combat my team benefits clearly for every second above “x” seconds (with “x” being no greater than 20 for that would be relatively equal to a kill as for as team advantage goes). Then you’d have to look @ average holdout times in 1vx scenarios and rate higher/lower your performance.

My point with the above example is that we can break down different actions/events into parts that we can agree on as being worthwhile or the reverse and grant individual ratings. Sure this probably requires a little more than a system based solely on win/loss, but it’s so much more representative and would sell ESPN so much more.

You could even return individual scores and they would actually mean something. That is, that unless they mean something, the system would need to be tuned until they do for the vast majority.

Lets say we take success of individual skills as the only measure of a player’s MMR. Wouldn’t a lower skilled player be less able to get successful “good behaviours” factors to weigh in his side and that this would be self correcting as well though on a more player vs/situation/player basis?

Lets say you have a low MMR game, 9 low MMR and 1 high MMR. What are the odds of the high MMR player to get high returns from his “good behaviour” in that match?

how much success would the lower mmr players get? Those on his team, those on the other team?.

I don’t necessarily think that this should completely replace a pure win/loss system…I think it should defenitly be a part of it though. If it could be self levelling by it’s self then by all means…

@Huskboy

So for bunker you’d say:

Staying alive on point, holding his own against 1 without dieing, ideally holding vs 2 or more. Avoid getting held point capured by enemies and staying alive as long as possible until help arrives.

So here you’d have time in combat without dieing, could have time in combat while outnumbered and time successfully defending that could count towards “good quality” for a bunker role.

I also agree that some “types” of play should be associated with amulets. Support amulets to reward support actions/activities, and so on.

Hi there, this has been on my mind for quite a while now seeing as I am an other unhappy camper about mmr being based off wins/losses because as you all know, each player represents 20% of their team more or less comms/leadership/smarts that a player can exude during the game.

But lets face it, most games are probably pugs and you have a couple groups of organised people who play with comms. Nice to see that they decided to add a 1-2 queue to solve the discrepencies there but lets cut to the chase.

I am mainly a soloQ guy and so are many of you. And the matchmaking/mmr reward/rating as it is doesn’t feel satisfactory towards individual skill level. If based solely on organized groups with comms it might be suitable but it doesn’t adress the needs of all player types.

That said, we need to identify the characteristics of play that are worth something in PvP, that is to say, what makes individual players good be counted as good and bad be counted as bad. There is already a ton of metrics in the game and probably only a couple more should be created to harness a system that would be adequatly representative.

I can’t say I have all the answers right now, but a couple ideas and I encourage you to discuss on what attitudes/actions/happenings in a game is noteworthy of qualities of the “good player”.

To me, here are a couple qualities of a “good player”

• Kills
• Rezzes/rallies of nearby teammates.
• Stopping stomps
• Successful disengages from battle and healing back
• less Time away from the fray
• Time alive in combat vs 1, 2, etc
• Time defending capture point
• Time assaulting capture point
• Kills/Death Ratios
• Time to kill once engaged (for successful +1 scenarios)
• High performance vs class type average

Those are the ones I can think for now.

There are also some bad player hebaviour

• Time to death once engaged (like suiciding on a point)
• Time spent @ spawn
• Idle time away from capture points (debatable)
• Low performance vs class type average

I’m sure there are more.

I think a system based on something like this could account for individual player skill. if you look into all that info…you could correlate a player’s participation to a kill to a couple factors, total damage dealt, and if damage dealt vs death of foe is closely tied in time (for +1’s and opportunity chase and finish).

That’s all I have for now but I wanted to get a discussion going and perhaps agree on weight factors/ratios and etc.

Food for Thought

Addition

Roles attached to amulets types: Offense (power/Condi), Support

Play styles

Bunker: Successfully defending point (kill or getting other player to disengage).

Support: Heals on other team members, boons on other team members, Rezzes, debuffs on enemy team, cc on enemy team leading to down/kill within relative short time.

Offense:

• Power: Damage dealt, dps (for bursts/aoe pressure)

• Condi: # of conditions applied, total Condition damage

Well, that simply means some info could be more openly clear to all.

For example they could have shown all items in the HoT recipe tab, greyed out with a lof on them with a mouse over indicating what is needed to unlock that content.

Like the collector items for the gliders in the other HoT maps.

Digging for info takes all kind of forms.. I Wiki’d before, went to WvW maps and it wasn’t explicitly clear that there was that requirement. So maybe we should update the wiki to mention it at least.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Aveigel.2601:

Notary Vendors no longer offer the runes

They clearly do this was taken 2 minutes before this post……… dont say things that are false.

A little harsh for a response.

Yes I seen that they are unlocked only when you complete the provision Master Trait line or they simply don’t show up.

Notary Vendors no longer offer the runes

I agree on the “fix” will kill map entirely approach. Basically anything that makes it non optimal revenue for time spent is likely to be unused at all. Hell running to collect chests is boring as hell…the only compensation is the worth you get out of it. So if thi8s only incentive to do the map is removed, then bye bye map population.

well they aleady work like that versus long range attacks, I’m not proposing any changes on that part there. The counters are launched if an enemy is within range. The part I dislike is when you launch that counter but it falls in the void of an attack chain.

Also I don’t think a counter should hit when triggered by any kind of trap..I mean you can totally have no target to hit and lose the block it was providing…Happened to me on a laid DH trap…no one was around. Was hoping I could block more than 1 hit maybe…was puzzled why the character launched an attack @ nothing.

yes the reason I mentionned a “cc” in there is to represent the effect of breaking an attack with the counter.

What use are the skills as they are when the counter effect triggered is lost to an evading attack and it’S blocking effect (while waiting to trigger the counter) is also lost…pretty underwhelming.

I’m forgetting that some skills are built in with a strong “cc” but some aren’t, while the “cc” aspect might not be the optimal solution, what I really would like to see is for those skills to be effective when triggered, wether it be from an evading attack or a regular one.

Playtesting different variations would give a better feel for the desired effect.

yes I’m talking about those skills

Ranger greatsword #4, Counterattack
Warrior Mace #2, Counterblow
Warrior Sword #5, Riposte
Daredevil’s Bandit Defense
Engineer’s Static Shield (though not a dmging counter, should interrupt skills imo)
Mesmer Scepter #2, Illusionary counter
Mesmer sword #4, Illusionary Riposte

Though like normal counters, the interrupt should happen only if in melee range, otherwise carry on as a block as normal. I mention this because Mesmer has a 900 range on their counters.

So to specify I am talking about interrupting melee range skills here.

Adding to my previous list of interruptable skills, things like Surge of the mist as well from Revenant.

Though Bandit’s defense is currently not a direct counter, it used to be so, but it’s success was so so, and changed to it’s current form. I think changes to these counter skills would make things useful and interesting. The counter would continue to provide defense and the attacks granted by it wouldn’t go to waste vs other attacks that make it void like any ongoing melee cc or evading attacks.

I feel disappointed whenever I use a skill that has a block/counter effect that the counter is wasted if it is used when the opponent is using a skill that evades.

I feel that the counter skills would be real nice if they actually interrupted every skill when triggered if within range (usually melee)

so that they would interrupt a whirling blade, a revenant unrelenting assault, en engi’s rocket charge, etc.

if not, well maybe make the game smart enough to continue the block until a hit is possible…but I feel it would be more exciting if you could land counters in this way.

So mechanically, I’d suggest counter hits would be unevadable and have 1/4s daze or stun to them. Would play the surprise part of the counter well.

I was going to post this under homing rocks, but I realized that this is more than just about the rocks, but the whole map interaction with the new added extra range attacks and the feel of it all.

Here are a couple thoughts.

I also find it interesting that the mobs attack you while in the air, but rocks seem a bad option for such a long range attack…seems wrong…take an other weapon…

Here are a couple of fixes I think would make it fairer.

Homing is wrong, doesn’t allow you much movement options for avoiding, make it a straight hit…seeing curves when I go around a stalactite or boulder or something is just plain irritating. Last 600-1000 range from players should not home. Before that for game mechanics I wouldn’t mind.

Add in a little warning icon that could give you a hint of rocks incoming. Would make skill #4 more useful on the dodge aspect, since you could react, Same kind of principle as an warning aoe circle.

Add 3-4 second delay before any rock is thrown when a player is spotted by an enemy who can attack gliding players. makes no sense that you get pelleted by an enemy when you do a simple minor jump/glide that takes 1 sec and receive 3 rocks from enemies.

Lastly, if an enemy throws rocks at you, they pursue you and enter combat. If they lose sight of you for “x” period of time (say a stealth duration), they reset walking back to their original spot. Although this is could mean more ground aggro, it also gives players more actual use and worthwhile interaction with the world imo.

I just really find it annoying that something which hasn’t entered combat with me attacks me freely like that…feels like environmental damage more than coming from an enemy, as the interaction is completely separate. Where Aerial combat does not follow through to ground combat.

Lastly, When an enemy is damaged by aerial skills even if they are ground based, do not have them heal as if they were out of combat. This is just plain annoying…

So in short, Aerial combat = ground combat, both ways.

Yeah well what I noticed doesn’t seem to fit with simple leeching abilities…the dmg received is often too big to correspond to a leech of any kind…but I’ll have to stop and look again next time, maybe take a screen shot as well if it ain’t.

Been happening quite a bit where within the 5s of which I should get no dmg, that I get dmged…

Mostly some skills that have an extended duration seem to pass through like revenant’s Elemental blast and also had a bristleback’s spike barrage that went through.

Now I would expect this skill to behave like an invulnerability w/o condi protection or stability…AND to act like a stun break even through chanelled dmg skills…be it after I get dmg from an Elemental blast or any other dmg skill..

Certainly doesn’t seem to work 100% of the time as intended.

I failed to see any response to my suggestion so here it is again:

• Allow players to leave game as soon as it’s finished;
• Keep opt in window even in lobby after a match;
• Extend the Timer to 5 minutes (for example, could be 3 or whatever else);
• Keep teamchat (/t) on while people still have the option to opt in;

opt in window closes when:

• “No” option selected,
• closed window,
• logged off,
• entered new game.

The option is kinda nice, but remove any annoyance from it’s current interface and make it so that it’s “More Present” with no negative side effects.

Also I find the pop up window on match end to be quite annoying…always gets in the way of post match skirmishes which I sometimes enjoy…Maybe put it in a top corner or change it’s format so that it would be slimmer like a top Advertisement Banner on a website…

Actually don’t block people from leaving to lobby @ all…make it so that the option to form a group is still present when players are in the lobby, that they can still communicate via teamchat (/t), and that people can freely opt out @ anytime by closing the window, joining an other match or hitting “NO”.

I see no reason whatsoever to entice this as a “Must be” option…it’s an option, nothing more.

Let people who want to group up have a much easier time with the opt in option, and let it sit @ that.

fine for next year or starting from next season…Bad idea to do something like this retroactive when people might have cared for it.

Chaith.8256:

Aveigel.2601:

Previous quoted Message too long
…

I did not point out any reasons why Gyro stomping is too useful, more like it isn’t on the radar of deeply impacting OP skills at all when used for stomping.

Also, you’re really suggesting stomping mechanics, some you’re able to pre-cast an AoE to instantly finish players, some that aren’t interruptable, killable, and none take the place of the HoT class mechanic or ability they are attached to, even temporarily.

You’ve gone full R

Those are some mere suggestions, I did not take a count system and weight each option for sure, merely throwing out there some “HoT Flavored could be’s”. Hey if they could place a 2nd Ability Overlay when stomping, I ain’t against that…Any issue you point out Chaith can still be useful to adjust some options.

Ability A w/Stop Option initiates continued ability to stomp…why not?

I actually looked @ cooldowns, and they are somewhat similar to the Thief’s Impact strike/Gyro… 20-30s range. For sure if I were to make a scoring system for each, it might end up differently, adjusting this or that for balance purposes…they are all multi use.

Yes you could time some, you could collapse some, like the function gyro (i.e. Black hole/Well effect, “killable” like continuum split. Some you might have to jump fast on rez, yes they are different I agree.

Other options or a scoring card for abilities? please post em so we can have something else to work with.

Of course there will always be advocates of either side, which is why we can even have a discussion @ all..

Gyro stomp isn’t fine imo, Chaith pointed out many reasons why, and they pretty much concord with what I think as well. If it’s fine, allow something similar to other classes

Gyro isn’t a fractal avenger, it’s much better than one.

Looking for “other alternatives”:

Revenant: Shiro/Enchanted daggers to finish your opponent. With 5 or 6 daggers, hit “F” for the daggers to go into a stomping animation.

Should other alternatives be HoT oriented only to carry on with the HoT aspect the gyro is? Or Should they be more widespread?

Kind of has an impact on how you decide what to attach these Stomps to.

If HoT/Elite Specialization it is, well then they should all be attached to the first minor trait same as Scrapper, so that they don’t become dependent of any other traits.

Dragonhunter might be able to Call upon an avenger to stomp for him through virtue of justice if it’s up. Targetting a downed player, hitting F and go, putting the Virtue of Justice on cooldown.

Reaper: Executionner’s Scythe Finishing Blow, makes much sense.

Druid: Black Hole Finish. Body being dragged to Black Hole and gets finished when it comes into contact with it.

Berserker: F1 Zerk state finishes any downed player

Tempest: Overload Cyclone finishes.

Chrono: Well of Eternity Petrify finish or Calamity Finishes foes, Speeding up greatly the downed state dmg to kill foe over 3 secs

Yasha.5963:

I think ranger pets should be able to stomp. A stomping necro pet would actually be quite in theme – “pulling the souls of the downed to the grave” kind of thing. An AOE mesmer “Illusion of Death” an aoe auto stomp sounds pretty good as well.

Haha! Finally someone else adding to possibilities other than the “nerf” gun.

I had to point it out!

Chaith.8256:

Back then it matched purely on group MMR, instead of being based on pip range first, and sorted by MMR second. The grinding problem was fixed without even touching matchmaking, doing so was an over-compensation.

What’s worse for competition than having a bad player or two guaranteed on your team? Having a team stacked full of the bad players or good players in that pip range.

This is why I asked earlier to be able to see some data, and some test results…For all who don’t really understand this or how much an impact “X” amount of “goods” or “bads” in team will affect the outcome of your matches in a given situation, it would be something fairly easy to see and understand.

Would help get common ground, understanding, and abolish speculation about what’s going on behind the scenes with the matchmaking and all…

What reason is there to keep any data of this kind hidden anyways? Lots of interesting information can be gained from this.

you mean me?

Well true, but you also do it all so well

I’d like to see some stats on matchmaking from a while ago to answer a couple questions.

Like how much impact does a high MMR player have on a match of low MMR players…
I mean like:

1 high MMR player w/9 Low MMR players;
2 High MMR players w/8 Low MMR players
…
2 Low MMR players w/8 High MMR players
1 Low MMR players w/9 High MMR players.

Same test results with different standard deviations for MMR ratings
With some % win rates of different matches.

How your Matchmaker actually does versus expected results, and if there is too much deviation, can you identify with the data where the deviation comes from?

As we have seen in some other post, Time was a factor that wasn’t very well taken into account on overall game-play throughout the season with the reasoning that better players would move past the rabble quickly to leave them fighting among themselves. Which was later changed to a bump @ startup.

I don’t know exactly how the time issue fared regarding this for the current season, but there is the other factor of how your MMR works.

Does your current MMR have too long or too short a lifespan to enable players to feel they are where they belong? How many matches is the current MMR based on? is it a Moving average ? of how many games. Does my “noobness” from 1500 matches ago for example still follow me now that I grasped the basics and starting to explore the more elite aspects of it?

How quickly can I turn my MMR around if I get winning streaks?

Does losing represent as much to MMR as winning?

How are matches Weighed when the MMR is different and how does it affect my MMR in return, win or lose?

These things could help increase understanding and placed in the FAQ/Wiki after for ease of access.

Anything else?

Isn’t what you want really is some tool to enable you to adjust your MMR because you feel it’s not where you think it should be?

In all honesty, I felt the same way earlier on this season, then I got great matches in Diamond, hit Legend in 226 matches…kept my pre-season win rate which is really just average…55% about…out of season and in season…

For sure my learning curve has been steep and I had no clue in the beginning of what MMR was or how it could impact me, so seeing no point/difference until seasons began, I didn’t really care, and had lots of losses as I was still learning classes and game mechanics, and testing things out…I mean there was only a name difference in my eyes between unranked and ranked…rewards were the same, and then there was practice mode…

So does is this trail of noobness impacting me today?

Is my value as a player still reflected with what the MMR thinks I am, could be, could not…

For some reason, mainly mentality of some players I believe, Day time have given me great matches, with great cooperation while prime time has given me horrendous matches with a lot of bickering…is that also related to MMR? I mean seriously, is there a link?

You know the title of this isn’t only remove gyro stomp. It’s also add in other things to balance it out…ok I named it OR ADD OTHER OP STOMPS.

I’ve even started out with naming a few possibilities, but unless I missed any…I’m the only one who done so.

And so, the conversation stayed on the path of removing gyro stomp.

I’m saying I think we need adjustments regarding this…I’m still waiting to see any other suggestions other than “nerf”.

Yep, edited my post before this one because Chaith’s reaction is just the same as mine, something somewhat negative. Ty Chaith, for making me think about the weight and impact of my words.

I’m sure you know of people who repeat the same mistakes in life over and over and over…And even worse, they can even acknowledge it, but can’t help themselves @ repeating those bad behaviors.

Well people that play this game are part of life too and you might just stumble upon some in game…

What else you want to hear about? Seclusion/Isolation/Denial? I don’t think that’s going to happen…Education is a better tool to deal with this, but a strong arm solution is not. Not when you have a company and care about what people think of you as they are your revenue source.

Something Anet could do right now to help you in your quest to get clueless players be less clueless would be this: Post Hints/Tips on PvP loading screen & waiting screen while match starts to get some basics across…

They could even present some vids to demonstrate some basic elements…kinda like in the game Catherine, or even more…they could do some PvP based PvE environment tutorials/challenges where you are 1 of your 5 man team and a given scenario occurs. Different points could be tested/trained and you could have some sort of icon perhaps, to illustrate what PvP scenarios you successfully achieved…such as Rotation, Fleeing bad situations, reversals in given or whatever could be singles out as a series of events/happenings/situations that players in general should know…from basics to advanced..

I’m just daydreaming.