Guild Wars 2

Warriors don’t have anything to offer the group in spvp. They are easily kited, lack damage because they need to stack defense, least condition removal and lack mobility.

There’s nothing a warrior can do that other classes can do better.

Roamer? Thieves or elementalists do better

Damage? Thieves or mesmers or any other class can do better while being able to dodge/evade damage and mitigate them as well as warriors

Want to hold the fort? Guardians do that best. Warriors are half as effective.

AoE? Yeah, don’t bother with guardians.

Control? Elementalists

There’s nothing warriors can offer in spvp that other classes can do better. Really no point in bringing them. I think people are going to realize this very soon and all those "Omg warriors are OP” threads will turn to wanting a buff if we haven’t already been nerfed by noobs screaming nerfs cause of 100HB (which is the easiest thing to counter in pvp).

Yeah, please don’t bring “Bulls charge-frenzy-100 blades” warriors into this, that is the most easiest thing to dodge in the game.

Warriors are easily beaten by skilled classes with sustain, such as a necromancer, a mesmer and an engineer.

It’s very upsetting my favorite class has so many flaws

This is the first time ive seen this, but guys, please don’t cheat in spvp, especially tournament play, the other team has a mesmer named “Akumos Drovia” in the guild Deal With It [DWi] (We’re on the server Jade Quarry regardless, feel free to look out for these cheaters

He layed a portal down ontop of the trebuchet, jumped down, layed a portal, and ported back and opened the trebuchet interface, then ported back, he was able to fire the trebuchet without even being at the trebuchet, this is so irritating, please report anyone doing this and report it as a bug.

Stop cheating in tournament play, Mesmers are annoying enough.
Edited by moderator. Caps.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

I agree with the OP, people complaining about Thieves spamming an ability have no clue.

While this guy is agreeing with you and disagreeing at the same time.

All thieves WILL want to use pistol whip or heartseeker over and over (depending on the build) because it is their MAIN damage source. Thieves do not take much skill at all to play and to be honest their damage is way too high for the amount of mobility they have currently. Sure you can say they are squishy, but they ALSO have the most amount of evades in the game, not to mention stealth to evade attacks. And one of the most overpowered elites in the game (Thieves guild), Your argument seems invalid.

A rare chance to get things worthwhile or worth some money in the chests would be nice.. like the pet idea, or other things :|

Bump. We need a utility revamp.. ATLEAST something that gives protection? :|

For some reason I cannot edit my thread, keep up the posting guys!

Keep it up guys. I like your reply’s.

I think there should be more reward out of structured PvP, I mean the chests & the mystic forge is cool and all, but in the long run it takes months to get past rank 40+ but all in all your just working toward more “Visually appealing” PvP armor.

I liked in Guild Wars (The first one) That you could turn your points into “Zaishen Keys” and then sell them for gold out of PVP, That was actually rewarding because you could PVP for a purpose of say, making money and having fun at the same time. Perhaps add some kind of item you could purchase people would be interested in having in PVE just for the sole purpose of collection to actually make a little money off in PVE?

Perhaps a rare minipet you can only have a chance of getting from 1st place tournament chests which could be worth quite a bit in PVE? (Ghostly hero comes to mind referring to GW1) , I mean this is just the beginning.

What do you guys think of this?

Have any other ideas that I could add to this topic?

Thanks.

+1 mesmer is WAY too powerful atm..

I feel so useless.

It’s clearly obvious the thief and mesmer players here …

Warriors don’t have anything to offer the group in spvp. They are easily kited, lack damage because they need to stack defense, least condition removal and lack mobility.

There’s nothing a warrior can do that other classes can do better.

Roamer? Thieves or elementalists do better

Damage? Thieves or mesmers or any other class can do better while being able to dodge/evade damage and mitigate them as well as warriors

Want to hold the fort? Guardians do that best. Warriors are half as effective.

AoE? Yeah, don’t bother with guardians.

Control? Elementalists

There’s nothing warriors can offer in spvp that other classes can do better. Really no point in bringing them. I think people are going to realize this very soon and all those “OMG WARRIORS ARE OP” threads will turn to wanting a buff if we haven’t already been nerfed by noobs screaming nerfs cause of 100HB (which is the easiest thing to counter in pvp).

Yeah, please don’t bring “Bulls charge-frenzy-100 blades” warriors into this, that is the most easiest thing to counter and dodge in the game.

xTiMMeHx.5496:

BlackDeath.7834:

Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief, I play a 23k/24k health 1700 toughness sword/shield warrior, I get brought down by thiefs and mesmers, and a good engineer here and there, You want to break the stun? Alright, he will pistol whip you against right after hes racerolling with quickness active, “Don’t be a glasscannon” is a terrible argument.

Would it be better for me to say that you in this case, should use your skills better? Maybe you should pick your utility skills specificly for HS’ing/PW’ing thieves if this counters you that hard.

Yes Pistol whip is extremely strong, yet it does not stun you for the entire duration and it costs 5 initiative. 5 Initiative is half of your bar, let’s say that with a decent build and traits you can use it 3 times in a very short duration.

You as a warrior with your shield, have a skill which makes you invulnerable for (?) 5 seconds? Use it, then start walking / dodging away from the thief. If the thief wants to catch up with you he will use the infiltrator’s strike, since he will most likely use steal to have the first gap closed (it will cost initiative if he doesn’t).

Infiltrator’s strike is another 3 Initiative, with our pool of 10, this is a severe drain, especially after you use PW (Total cost of 8 initiative, and lets say you regen 2-3 in this time) Which gives you 5-6 Ini. This is enough for one more pistol whip, and then you are completely out of it, leaving you open to any counterattacks.

Looking at other points:

Thieves are a very strong 1v1 class, to assume you are able to beat a thief 1v1 because you have 24k HP, is a terrible argument. Since it depends on your own skill aswell, and the skill of the thief. However, I can tell you, the thieves that burst you down, with 24k HP are glasscannons themselves, with no survivability. That shiny 3 adrenaline bar skill thing of warriors with the greatsword, will finish him almost inmediatly, rest assured of that.
Also, look at thieves in group fights. You have barely no area of effect with the Pistol Whip setup and it relies on the stupidity of the opponents, to stand within your attack from pistol whip. Also there are no decent escape skills in this setup without utility skills.

Also do not forget your first sentance:
“Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief.”’
A skilled thief.
Yes, if a guardian and thief would come in a 1v1 against eachother, and both are equally skilled, I dare to say that the guardian will win the fight, just as much as I can tell you, that if the thief has a decent initiate on any other class , whilst both are equally skilled, the thief will win. The reason why is stated above, the thief is a 1v1 class with very low Area of effect abilities in general. (Yes, we have Death Blossom which is one of the only decent aoe skills with melee weapons).

In the time his initiative is down from hitting me over and over with pistol whip, he can steal from me and get whirling axe (which he gets 4/5 times from stealing from a warrior) And I can’t do anything while he’s spinning around and taking about 6k health away from me, and in that time his initiative is built back up and hes back to square one, what now?

xTiMMeHx.5496:

BlackDeath.7834:

xTiMMeHx.5496:

I just honestly can’t figure why you would call the thief OP.

If you break it down to the basics, look at the thief’s role in PvP. Should you not know this, it’s bursting down players, and most preferably, the glasscannons of the other side.

The entire initiative system is build around this simple role, and stating that the thief is too strong because of the heartseeker spam, is insane. Yes you can spam it a couple of times untill you are out of initiative, yet if you are countered (Which can be done easily) you are out of initiative and then the thief’s burst is over.

This is exactly the reason why thieves are easily countered by higher armored classes (Without glasscannon builds obv.) like the guardian, warrior and even necromancers if traited and geared the right way.

I’m even having my doubts about some thief skills while downed if I can state my honest opinion. In one of the earliest beta’s I’ve been in , the thief had the move ability, combined with his stealth one, which gave them another skill. Yet mesmer’s have one skill, to move, stealth and spawn a clone of themselves. Although they have this, it’s not hard to counter them, and apart from the moa skill, the mesmer is fine.

Also saying that thieves that spam HS deal to much damage for the skill required is stupid, a smart thief won’t spam HS because without initiative you’re pretty much screwed against smart opponents. If a thief keeps killing you without you being able to do anything, you might have to watch at your own playstyle at this moment instead of the power of the thieves.

EDIT: Not to forget, the engineers. People have been complaining about them being underpowered, but of all the classes in the game, the engineer is simply one of the higher skilled classes, if not the highest. I will even go to the point of saying that thieves are not that hard to play, yet everyone knows the best players with any class, be it high or low skilled, are still skilled players themselves.

Please tell me how you counter a pistol whip thief with thieves guild up & quickness at his disposal, regardless of class? Thanks. You obviously play a thief yourself.

1. Yes I do play a thief myself, yet I also play a guardian and looking between those classes, the guardian has the most favorable spot, dealing a bit less damage, for a ton more survivability.
2. In this situation, you are looking at a thief who uses his Elite skill, and his utility skill for quickness. How do you counter this? Simple, don’t be a glasscannon. If you are a glasscannon, you deserve to be downed because that’s the thiefs role.

Also, almost every class has some kind of stun breaking ability, or even something which makes them take no damage at all.

Guardian is the only class that have a high chance against a skilled thief, I play a 23k/24k health 1700 toughness sword/shield warrior, I get brought down by thiefs and mesmers, and a good engineer here and there, You want to break the stun? Alright, he will pistol whip you again right after hes racerolling with quickness active, “Don’t be a glasscannon” is a terrible argument.

xTiMMeHx.5496:

I just honestly can’t figure why you would call the thief OP.

If you break it down to the basics, look at the thief’s role in PvP. Should you not know this, it’s bursting down players, and most preferably, the glasscannons of the other side.

The entire initiative system is build around this simple role, and stating that the thief is too strong because of the heartseeker spam, is insane. Yes you can spam it a couple of times untill you are out of initiative, yet if you are countered (Which can be done easily) you are out of initiative and then the thief’s burst is over.

This is exactly the reason why thieves are easily countered by higher armored classes (Without glasscannon builds obv.) like the guardian, warrior and even necromancers if traited and geared the right way.

I’m even having my doubts about some thief skills while downed if I can state my honest opinion. In one of the earliest beta’s I’ve been in , the thief had the move ability, combined with his stealth one, which gave them another skill. Yet mesmer’s have one skill, to move, stealth and spawn a clone of themselves. Although they have this, it’s not hard to counter them, and apart from the moa skill, the mesmer is fine.

Also saying that thieves that spam HS deal to much damage for the skill required is stupid, a smart thief won’t spam HS because without initiative you’re pretty much screwed against smart opponents. If a thief keeps killing you without you being able to do anything, you might have to watch at your own playstyle at this moment instead of the power of the thieves.

EDIT: Not to forget, the engineers. People have been complaining about them being underpowered, but of all the classes in the game, the engineer is simply one of the higher skilled classes, if not the highest. I will even go to the point of saying that thieves are not that hard to play, yet everyone knows the best players with any class, be it high or low skilled, are still skilled players themselves.

Please tell me how you counter a pistol whip thief with thieves guild up & quickness at his disposal, regardless of class? Thanks. You obviously play a thief yourself.

crewthief.8649:

BlackDeath.7834:

crewthief.8649:

BlackDeath.7834:

People say “Learn how to play against a glass cannon thief build” How can you when they have so much mobility and evasiveness.. It’s funny they provide no insight.

It means work on timing your dodge rolls, time your CC, and build with a bit of toughness/vitality. If you step out the gate with 12-15K health and barely any toughness, go ahead and get ready to be cut through like wet toilet paper.

I’m playing a defensive sword and shield warrior build with 24k health & 1800 toughness and I still get bursted down by thieves, I don’t see your point.

Dodge roll? Do you consistently lose 1v1s against Thieves? And what I mean by that is, I see a whole lot of people complaining about being burst down and they’re admittedly running a full on glass cannon build.

A burst thief when he pops his thieves guild, yes I do lose 1v1’s to them often because dodge-rolling will only save you for so long, then you’re done for. There’s not much else I can do.

crewthief.8649:

BlackDeath.7834:

People say “Learn how to play against a glass cannon thief build” How can you when they have so much mobility and evasiveness.. It’s funny they provide no insight.

It means work on timing your dodge rolls, time your CC, and build with a bit of toughness/vitality. If you step out the gate with 12-15K health and barely any toughness, go ahead and get ready to be cut through like wet toilet paper.

I’m playing a defensive sword and shield warrior build with 24k health & 1800 toughness and I still get bursted down by thieves, I don’t see your point.

People say “Learn how to play against a glass cannon thief build” How can you when they have so much mobility and evasiveness.. It’s funny they provide no insight.

Oops, didn’t mean to double post.

vikramchamp.7450:

Let me just put something into perspective. While I agree that 2 or more thieves in 1 fight can burn a lot of setups, the same goes for 2 of any class. It’s only logical. 2 of something deadly is always deadlier. It just happens that this a burst class. If there was 2 mesmers or 2 guardians, I can guarantee that would be WAY more ridiculous to beat. In fact us thieves would just back the eff off outta there and use another angle. No point giving free points to other team.

Secondly, please do not whine when a thief gets the jump on u and slams u into the ground before u can say howdy doo u do because THATS the point. Thats the 1 thing we are very good for. Now lets assume for a moment that thiefs were not even able to do that. Then what do we do? hopelessly shoot pistols hoping to bleed your entire health bar out pressing the 1 key? Or perhaps hey yeah sure we’ll stick ard for a few minutes getting focused by everyone. The thief is about in>slam>out.

Now playing a thief till rank 10 in sPvP, it is not exactly a walk in the park setting up a jump on just anyone. Plenty times ppl dodge it. Eles (was it?) put up the lightnin shield thing that stops PW from going past the bash. Guardians. well. Lets just say there are plenty guardians out there that know what they are doing. Remember that the moment we miss it, u got us on 2 X 45s CDs (or 36, depending on spec), following which you can then proceed to lock us down and decimate, unless we specced for that extra escape skill. The moment my presence is realised everyone is on me like Comicon opened 1 month early, sheesh. The moment we lose the control we die. Thats how you win a thief.

I would also like to add that for the love of god, it is just September 13th, hold your horses. The more familiar people get with our burst sequences, the harder it gets for us. And no I do not use dual daggers, that does not require brains to play nor does it keep you alive for long in a bigger fight. Plus honestly it is just ridiculous to watch my thief doing HS spam. I run a pistol/dagger with a swap to S/P. For those who would like a heads up, keep ur distance if you see this setup because we can just keep taking the dagger number 5 skill to stealth off you and keep bleeding you out with pistol 1 stealth skill + stab n tele away and shoot skill (3) until our CD’s are over, after which the match is over cos hello here comes S/P > devourer venom + Haste + Steal/number 2 skill + P/W. BOOM.

Lastly, and this is important. 1v1 a thief absolutely does not mean you lose. We do get cut down by some really simple but smart tactics.

Burst sequences? Heartseeker spam isn’t a sequence, silly goose.

Also, I believe the downed state teleport for the thief and the clone for the mesmer should only be able to be used ONCE during each downed state.

Thedenofsin.7340:

I think Moa Morph is overpowered in its current form. It needs to have a shorter duration. Their illusions generally are useless. I just place a mark on the real mesmer and never have to worry about getting faked out. The only illusion that’s trouble is the pistol one – but he dies in a couple of hits, or just toss up a reflect wall and it kills itself.
Basically, you have to kill the pistol illusion, ignore the rest and dps down the mesmer and he’s toast, or he’ll run away.
With thieves you need to have a lot of hp and several knockbacks/knockdowns to avoid skillseeker spam.

Heartseeker has a built in evade, how do you expect to knockdown during it or when you are immobilized?

aydenunited.5729:

The same things were being said during beta weekends about the Warrior’s frenzied bull-rush hundred blades, and now that people are learning to dodge back and watch them swing at nothing, it’s not so bad.

It all depends on your build, really, which is what’s so great about this game. YOU decide what kind of player you are, and that determines what you are strong/weak against.

That said… the Moa Morph lasts way too long.

Bulls charge, frenzy, hundred blades is MUCH easier and simpler to deal with than a thief with evades on their abilitys and a stealth built in.. You can’t even compare the two man.

I was obviously over-exaggerating the numbers in my post, But I figured the Mesmer & thief players would be the ones posting trying to back up how “even” their class is.

Two classes me and many others find too powerful currently, I will start with the Thief.

Thief- I mean they already have amazing mobility, able to get across the map almost as fast as an elementalist, their burst is insane with pistol whip or heartseeker strike spamming alone, They can burst you down in a couple seconds with their band of these elite plus 2 extra thieves alone, it’s crazy.

Couple that with the ability to dodge every second and immobalize you, you cannot dodge or do anything to stop your death, not to mention the ability to stealth and teleport around when you kill them.

HS/PW are considered OP by many when used with quickness.
That’s the main problem people have along with HS being a gap closer and a burst skill that can be spammed, doing more and more DMG as the target HP is lower.
So even if you dodge, the thief will be on top of you using HS. Also if he is out of initiative he can steal on you, and if traited correctly, it will give him more initiative to just HS/PW you again.
Most people getkitten because in order to survive the thief, most classes need your major cooldowns/elite up, along with full endurance.
1-2 minutes into a fight you are exposed to thiefs burstin you down if below or around 80% HP.

Mesmer- Mesmers have the ability to play 4 roles in one build instead of being able to focus on only phantasms, or illusion, but they can do everything, have great survivability, do insane damage, have 3 illusions at once? It’s already hard enough to find the right one!

The “Moa Morph” Elite is far too powerful, It’s basically a 10 second stun. Sure you can move, but very slowly and you do no damage at all.

Downed state on Mesmers is more annoying than thieves, they make a copy of themselves on the ground similar to a thief teleporting around with stealth making you waste much more time trying to down them.

Their ability to play every role (Not to mention the annoyingness of a portal mesmer repairing the trebuchet), do insane amounts of damage (especially with greatsword/pistol sword), Have fantastic survivability, and spam clones of yourself to confuse your enemy’s makes this class too powerful. They can be single handedly the best 1v1 class in the game.

Make it so mesmers have to actually invest points into say phantasms, supporting, power/damage output to focus on 1 single role instead of being able to play 3+ roles in one build.

Also, I believe the downed state teleport for the thief and the clone for the mesmer should only be able to be used ONCE during each downed state.

Opinions?

P.S: While you’re here feel free to look at my “More reward out of PVP thread”, we need more support!