Guild Wars 2

NixZero.7540:

so basically each mob and player has 25 bleed “slots”, in each of them a bleed will register his duration and owner (the guy/npc that casted it) and assign damage according.
when you cast a spell with x bleed effects for y seconds the game looks if the recipient has any bleed slots free and fill as many of them he can.
if it has less bleed slots than your spell should inflict, you’ll see ticking only the slots you filled for their individual duration and the game engine will count damage (for rewards pourposes) only for those.
there’s no buffer so anything you cast when all slots are full is wasted and when a slot empties it work first comers first served.
the cascade of numbers you see on the screen is just a graphical representation of what is happening and often is wildly inaccurate because you can put only so much numbers on screen in a second and see them, if yuo can keep the full 25 stacks of bleeds you wont be able to see all of them ticking on screen.

Correct sir, though I think maybe you can see all the numbers they are just very hard to read and overlap when u get to 25

My swarm missed? – this is not WoW you dont need to be hit capped, and I’ve done the fight in question enough times to know the boss doesnt apply a blind, or evade attacks

Maybe the champion gave me a new condition? – A new condition with 25% of its duration already expired? (the condition I’m talking about is the self bleed from blood is power)

The champion resisted the blind? – The unshakeable buff means that blind only causes 10% of attacks to miss, not that it resists blind 90% of the time

Your argument is extremely flawed and based primarily off of somebody else’s very flawed argument. If you actually read a lot of what is posted here, and actually pay attention to what is happening in game yourself (at this point I’m wondering if you’ve even tried out these situations in game) you would see that while there’s a lot of misinformation spread through this thread, the general thoughts behind it are accurate based on what is observable in game at present.

Edit: thought id throw in why the copy paste uve included is so flawed
“Lets say 25 stack bleed = 5 ticks per second so 5 stack is 1 tick per second.”
This, 25 stack bleed = 25 ticks per second, says in tooltip, has been observed by many people including myself (using sylvari plant turret ultimate to stack bleeds personally)
The rest of it is simply so illogical that I dont even know where to begin

In any case this has gone horribly off topic, as nobody is really talking about the 5% coefficient being too small, and it was established that most people think its absolutely fine for situations where there isn’t more than 1 other person applying bleeds.

Other than not getting any dmg popups when i apply a bleed while theres 25 stacks, the inability to transfer bleeds from myself to my target using the dagger skill(they simply remain on me) is what I’m basing this on. Aswell as the fact that if I arrive at a champion event with a zerg of people, and only start applying bleeds after there’s 25 stacks on it, I can rarely get gold by simply trying to use bleeds, I need to switch to more direct dmg to get full credit.
Its the fact that ANET have rendered bleeding so underwhelming in so many situations that has led to this annoyance from the community.

Mirar.1087:

Amazing… Right after I said people “jump to conclusions,” another fool comes and states with certainty:

Ahmon.1730:

As long as the cap is 25 in PVE, condition builds will always have extremely poor DPS compared to power builds on champion fights.

Until you have some solid facts, please stop embarrassing yourself.

Here is an investigation from someone else:
===========
“Stacks doesn’t increase the tick damage.It increases the speed of damage ticks. When there is 5 different people with bleeding attacks and a boss with 25 stacks of bleeding debuff it means that every bleeding debuff applied by people will tick at 25 stack speed.

MULTIPLE CONDITION DAMAGE CHARACTERS BUFF EACH OTHER.Faster stack to 25 and keeping it at that for longer means that each and every one of the bleed attack caused by everyone else will tick at 25 speed.

If everyone had their own bleed stack it would actually reduce the overall damage for everyone as people keeping their bleeds at 25 stack all the time will be very limited if not impossible.

I’m gonna do a little math here with some basic numbers.

Lets say 25 stack bleed = 5 ticks per second so 5 stack is 1 tick per second.

Bleed damage right now with 1 stack of 25 for everyone.5 Characters with 10 – 20 – 30 – 40 – 50 damage per tick

In 10 seconds Damage would be

[(105)(205)(305)(405)(505)10] = 7500 damage

If you want everyone to have their own stacks
Player with 50 damage can keep 25 bleed stacks for himself all the time
Player 2 with 40 damage can keep 20 bleed stacks
Player 3 and 4 can keep their bleed stacks up to 15
Player 5 can keep it up to 10

So 10 second damage is

[(505)(404)(303)(203)(102)10] = 5800 damage

Bleed damage reduced for everyone when you get your own stack.

TL;DR

MORE BLEED STACK = FASTER BLEED TICK RATE
MORE BLEED STACK =/= MORE TICK DAMAGE FOR BLEED "
===========

At least there’s some science in how this conclusion was reached. “OMG 25 stack cap” is nothing near sufficient for any conclusion. The point is, we don’t understand enough, perhaps bleeding IS actually good with this system…

You sir, are a moron, and clearly have a severe inability to read.
Here’s some “solid facts” for you, if theres a boss with 25 stacks on bleed on it already, and I cast a single spell that puts a bleed on it, NOTHING happens, I get NO bleed dmg popups, and I do NO dmg from that spell

Now let me do some simple math with small numbers

0 x any amount of condition dmg I may have = lets see here ZERO

Fantom.9217:

Shelledfade.6435:

Skliros.1058:

Each stack of bleed behaves as a separate damage source. 10 stacks of bleed? 10 ticks of your bleed damage each second. I think we’re all sort of saying the same thing, but to put it succinctly, the damage from bleed comes from putting out large stacks of it. Math time. I get 120 damage ticks from my bleeds as my default conditionmancer build in sPvP. using BiP and scepter/dagger, it is by no means difficult to get 13 stacks of bleed on a target in a few moments. That is 13 ticks of 120 damage each second. 1560 damage every second, after their damage reduction, before any other source of damage is applied, and if I’m running epidemic, I can cause that in a large AoE as well. Pretty darn respectable.

This would probably be true, if each bleed acted alone which I’m assuming it does, unless there’s some kind of cap. But yeah, 10 bleeds, for 100 damage each, would be 1000 damage per second assuming there is no further bleed cap on damage ticks that we don’t know about.

Getting that many is rather difficult though in s-pvp. You’re normally in the 7-8 range.

so according to that, you could do 7000 damage in 7 seconds. That’s still nowhere near the amount of damage that a warrior can dish out in the same amount of time given. You also have to factor in the fact that other necros consume conditions, and that guardians can remove conditions as well, which shuts your build down.

Also, if you go power (condition duration) and precision, you’re basically a glass cannon. If someone targets you, you will die incredibly fast.

Are you not using the Cond Damage/Toughness/Precision gear? Why the hell not?

My necro was incredibly powerful in BWE3, I played a ton of hours of sPVP and was always topping charts. Though I haven’t had a chance to play one on live, so I’m not going to claim perfect expertise.

I loved the condition damage build that I ran and didn’t find him underpowered at all. If necros get a significant buff to Scepter/OH + Staff builds I think that I will be FORCED to play one, because it’s going to be overpowered as kitten.

Remember that you are in the highest base HP category, and your gear should be adding toughness.

@Phantom
I know that since BWE3 they removed a lot of rly good traits, and also they seem to have changed death shroud mechanics, as in bwe3 it seemed to break cc on use, which it no longer does

Teknomancer.8475:

I myself am now very very confused about how basic bleeding works. After reading all the information presented here in this thread.

what exactly does intesity do? Does it shorten the time between ticks? Does it cause the bleed dmg to be upped? In my play time I have always thought it caused my bleeds to just tick faster is all.

Sidenote: Really wish a dev would respond to more of the questions we have in the Necromancer community instead of just locking the threads that spiral out of control.

Happy Wednesday,
Madame Moorshade Teknomancer

“stacks intensity” means that when you apply a new bleed, it adds another instance of bleeding to the target, so if you apply a 10s bleed, then a 5s bleed, you effectively have 2 debuffs, which will each tick once a second for a certain amount of dmg based on condition dmg. Each of these bleeds has its own duration that is unaffected by the other bleeds on the target. If the duration of one of these instances of bleeding runs out, the target will lose 1 stack of bleeding.

Not the most elegant explanation but I hope it helps, there’s a lot of very off information in this thread, so I suggest you go have a read of the wiki if you still confused, most of the information there is fairly accurate.

getzzzonked.7609:

Got to be honest, to call them useless seems a bit harsh. You have to remember that a lot of people play this game for reasons other than dominating in PvP or PvE. They may not havee a use to you, but they do add something to the game. As a random example, the jagged horror. My girlfriend thought it was awesome when the little guy popped up out of the ground when she killed something on my necro. Its fun. She plays the game to enjoy it, and she finds that fun.

The main issue is that you get no choice when it comes to minor traits, so while it might be fun for some people, its also forced on other people who don’t find a waste of a trait slot fun and who get tired of the character voice for the minion spawning and dieing overlapping because it dies the moment it finishes spawning

zao.2710:

It is a prime example of traits not synergizing well with each other and skills.
My 2 cents:
- health degen should be smaller

- cooldown can remain, but the horror’s spawn should be triggered by a factor happening mid-fight, such as crit
OR
- cooldown can be lowered, but there should be a possibility to maintain horrors and spawn multiple at once during large fight after every kill

In both cases the death nova trait would finally be usefull and jagged horros would have bigger presence in fights.

I would have to agree, maybe change the or to an and though.

alanis.6094:

Bleed’s tick twice per second, not once.

They tick once a second, fairly sure my 10 stack isn’t doing 2400 dps
also there’s this:

“Bleeding can stack in intensity up to 25 times and each stack does one pulse of damage per second. The damage dealt by bleeding is determined by the following formula:

2.5 + 0.5 * Level + 0.05 * Condition Damage per stack per second"

So after reading through that pile of inaccuracy and bad maths above I thought id give my opinion on the matter.
In spvp, bleeds are perfectly fine, and can be very powerful, spreading 10+ stacks of bleeds onto a group of 3 people does some serious damage, especially since it goes through armour.
In pve, I find it rly rly kitten irritating that in their infinite wisdom, the devs decided to cap the amount of bleeds on a single target to LESS than what two people can put on, whether it be a 5 man boss, or a 40 man boss, if somebody can explain the logic behind that i would very much apreciate it.
On the topic of max condition stacks, does anybody know how additional stacks are handled when there are already 25 on a target? do the new ones simply not apply or does it override ones about to run out? The most I’ve been able to ascertain is that at 25 stacks, bleeds on yorself will not be transfered to your target when you use one of the skills that transfers conditions.

^^ my $0.02