I look at it this way. If you get to plat and just continue to play as you do without improving and other people start getting better and focus on improving those people will overtake the person no longer attempting to improve… so why should they get to stay if the other people have surpassed them?
Its not even that… I went 0-10 (intentionally) in placement and started in bronze. in a matter of 3 days i went to gold. I get to plat 1 and bounced out because due to bad rotations….. Im a 2 time legend and this season is just bs
regardless of what happened , fact is the way pts are handed out is pretty bad for solo que players. As a result less people will que and wait time will be longer.
I solo and the way it is doesn’t bother me at all.
You were favored in your first two matches, so you lost one point in both. The third match was even, but you got over 400 points so your ladder points didn’t change. This is working as intended, but it sounds like you think the match prediction should weigh premades more versus solo players.
Yes, that’s what I would like.
But if you guys aren’t willing to change it I just won’t solo queue anymore, at least when I’m in ranked. There are just too many variables at play when solo queuing to get above a 60% win rate without running a cheese build or being a WTS caliber player. And if losing against premades results in a loss of points, I just don’t see how any solo queuer can ever crack the top 500 without playing ten hours a day.
Food for thought: There are a lot of players in the top 500 that primarily solo-queue (myself included—at least at the moment). I don’t play anywhere near ten hours day… not even close.
Assuming all players are equally skilled, being in a full or partial premade will give you considerable advantage over pugs. Don’t think the current match making system even accounts for it and if it does then not enough. Synergy of premade can be strong.
people say this, but i will queue with guildies on their first time in pvp. actually, most if the time i’m the strongest player in my premade and have to carry. it can just be pals doing pvp for fun and no a super serious squad.
i never blame losses on a premade. it’s either i goofed, or it’s that the people i have on my team would be better suited to sucking nutrients off the bottom of a fish tank.
have you considered that perhaps ranked queue is not the place for complete newbies? I’m not trying to be rude, but I can’t imagine it’s a very conducive environment for their learning. Unranked would probably be better.
I think most people would agree with that however, newbies aren’t always willing to admit that they are newbies.
You were favored in your first two matches, so you lost one point in both. The third match was even, but you got over 400 points so your ladder points didn’t change. This is working as intended, but it sounds like you think the match prediction should weigh premades more versus solo players.
Thank you for clearing that up Evan. I like the way you guys are doing this. Just my opinion.
I would like to offer this as well: Not all “pre-made” teams are good.
A lot of solo-queue players will blame most of their losses on “getting paired with bad players.” In turn, they will seek out guildies to form a pre-made team in effort to avoid pugs. If they are inexperienced players, being pre-made isn’t going to solve the problem completely.
I have solo-queued against many pre-made teams and still won.
Personally I never had any real serious problem with WvW when it was lively and active. It has become a tad bit repetitive and that is my most serious complaint.
However, now I see guilds, friends, and acquaintances from all different servers dropping out of WvW and out of the game at a record pace. Unless this is part of the long-term plan that Anet has for WvW then they need to do something to right this ship, and do it quickly.
IMO: the PPT system is not the source of the problem. I agree that coverage is one of the most determinative factors when it comes to maintaining a high PPT. That also is not really the problem (imo). The problem is the dramatic differences in coverage from server to server. If the servers had balanced coverage, then the current scoring system would work fine.
It doesn’t help the real source of the problem to alter the system with the intention of making coverage not matter. What they ought to be doing is figure out a sensible way to balance the coverage. Obviously that would require some tough choices (probably things like moving guilds around, deleting/merging servers, etc…). I’ve said in a different post that there probably isn’t an easy way to do this that doesn’t upset some people in the short run. Long term solutions are what we should be after though.
At the core of competitive games/sports is the idea that each team has the same number of competitors on it. The fact that this is not the case in wvw is at the heart of the issue.
Essentially, there are two things that need to happen in order to rejuvenate wvw: 1) they need to find a way to make the match-ups competitive for each server—primarily a population/player base issue. 2) they have to figure out how to bring variety to the competition—this means a full re-work of the match-up system and ranking system.
Those are mutually exclusive goals. You can’t have variety and always have balanced matches.
Balanced matches are always going to be against the servers that are closest to you, which means the same servers all the time unless a lot of guilds suddenly move to or leave one of them.
So, what anet has done … and I think this is quite clever … is split WvW into in-season and off-season.
In-season we get variety, this is when you get a chance to fight against the servers that are usually in the tier above or the tier below.
Off-season we get the generally static, as balanced-as-it’s-gonna-get matches.
There is nothing anet can do to evenly distribute the player base across all the servers. The best they can do is what they’re doing, make it tricky/expensive to transfer to the higher tiers. It’s human nature to clump up. From server selection, to actual gameplay it’s just the way it’s going to work out.
I am going to have to respectfully disagree with your contention that these are mutually exclusive goals. They are mutually exclusive the way things are now but the point was to change the way things are now—think outside the box man.
I also respectfully disagree with your contention that there is nothing anet can do to balance out the populations. I believe it most definitely can be done (though perhaps not without upsetting some of the player base in the short run).
So, I’m sure you can imagine, I am on a server that doesn’t have a night crew. Every night around midnight, I log off with a decent PPT rolling… only to wake up the next morning to find out that a small night crew has completely taken over all the maps. I know, I know, quit whining…but, WvW just starts to really suck when you know that a group of about 5-10 ppl are responsible for that servers win every week. I know that over time, the rankings adjust so these servers all move to the top, but its just so painful to play when you are undoing the workings of a small group that is playing at 3-5am. So…should some of these servers that have a large non-NA presence be moved to EU? I’m not suggesting that there be a nighttime cutoff either…but maybe an increased time between ticks for PPT during the wee hours?? I guess I’m just trying to think of a way to make night capping crews not so overpowered. Or somehow discourage the night capping method for winning. I know, I know…just recruit a nightcrew. But, basically, these nightcrews are just PVEing their way to server wins every week (whats the sport in winning without actually having to PVP) Eventually, it will just come down to snooze you lose (literally)
For those of you on a night capping server…enjoy.
For those who are not…meh, hang in there.
If you have logged off, like you say, how do you really know it’s only 5-10 people capping everything? Hmmm….
Unfortunately it seems many people are just starting to get bored. The only way ANET can remedy that is to mix things up so that the competition has more variety in it—right now it’s stale. I don’t think it is necessarily a “content” issue as much as it is a variety issue. Variety in the match-up won’t mean anything if they don’t deal with the massive population imbalance first (or in tandem).
Essentially, there are two things that need to happen in order to rejuvenate wvw: 1) they need to find a way to make the match-ups competitive for each server—primarily a population/player base issue. 2) they have to figure out how to bring variety to the competition—this means a full re-work of the match-up system and ranking system.
Again, adding variety to the match-ups won’t accomplish anything if they can’t balance the populations first though (what good is a JQ vs. FA match-up with the populations the way they are). I don’t have any great ideas for how to balance populations but ANET has some creative minds working over there—they should be able to figure it out.
They could creates some combo-field-Utilities , specificly for WvWvW that punish the zergs .
“Punish Zergs?” The “solution” should not about punishing zergs. Big fights are fun and there is another format reserved for small scale pvp. The “solution” should be about population balance and/or some other way to enable your server to have access to comparable numbers.
Of course, I am not saying everyone needs to fight in a zerg. But if your server has similar numbers and zerg(s) on the map, then you can make your own choices about what you want to do in wvw and there won’t be any complaining about being outnumbered. If you choose to run alone instead of with the larger group on the map, it’s a choice not a balance problem.
So what people are saying is that if we play on an outnumbered server that we should just transfer us and all of our friends to a server that is overpopulated right? Think big picture here and you might realize that that leads to a single server that has no WvW at all because no one should be on the server that has less people. I am on Yaks at the moment ( a dominantly PVE server) and our current match-up is against 2 T1 servers. Yes we are losing horribly but I can tell you that when we are close to even numbers these 2 servers get more than what they bargained for when we go head to head. The problem is that we are at a constant state of being outnumbered and it sucks pretty bad to be in a group of 15 when you see 40+ running at you because the other 15 people on the map are busy defending the few places you have managed to cap from a much larger zerg. All this person is asking for is for things to be a bit more evenly matched instead of getting steamrolled almost constantly.
1) nobody is telling you or anyone else to transfer to a server that is “overpopulated.”
2) If you are on Yak’s Bend as you say, then you are not currently matched up against any T1 servers (which is what you claimed). As best as I can tell, Yaks is currently up against FA and SBI (T3/T4).
From what I recall, Yaks has some pretty competent wvw players but then again, the last time I fought against Yaks was probably almost a year ago. If what you say is true—that your server is all PvE players—then clearly, there is your problem. If you don’t have anyone on the map it is going to be hard to compete. Why don’t you try and recruit more of those “PvE” players to start contributing more in the Wvw environment? If you have the people on the server, then it’s an issue of leadership and recruitment… get more people involved.
As far as transferring goes, I would only recommend it as a last resort. Ultimately this is a game and it is about having fun. If you believe you can have fun where you are at then you should stay there. If you are not having fun then you only have a few options:
- Try to fix the problem: recruit more players on your server to join the fight, train players to do better, step up and take a leadership role, etc…
- Transfer to another server. This doesn’t have to be a T1 server and it doesn’t have to be a bandwaggon kind of thing. It’s about having fun and you go where you enjoy the gaming experience.
- Stop playing
Outnumbered is pretty much supposed to lose (unless there is a serious skill gap). Zergs beating small groups = working as intended.
Possible “solutions”: don’t be outnumbered; set up defensive siege and leave scouts at the location to provide quick notice of attack; respond to those scouting reports quickly; do better
If your server truly just doesn’t have enough people to participate in wvw… transfer.
No we have enough over populated servers as it is and this is at the root of the problem. To have a true World versus World every world must be able to compete whether they have a high server population or not. That breeds competition and brings more skill to the table. There is no skill in being in a zerg charging up on a place spamming 111111111111.
If it were set up more for zergs the mobs and keeps would both have much higher hp then they do now. So i believe that logic is flawed. And it does not matter how much siege you set up if your out numbered the siege does very little to off set this. And if you are suggesting it i’m guessing your on one of the zerging servers that are the problem.
And no matter how fast you are you will always arrive to late to defend a camp and very few times will you get there to defend a tower or keep. Especially when you can not get inside because the zerg is right at the entrance meaning you die before even getting inside. And the lords of those places are a joke when it comes to zergs hitting them. They die within seconds and a few seconds later its gone. Then a 5 minute wait to recapture it.
For a true wvw all must be able to compete. If not then its a population contest and we need to rename it to population versus population and not world versus world. But seeing how it is wvw and over population is the problem we need the population to be thinned out to even out across servers or find a way in which servers with lower populations can compete. Zergs really should not be the answer as it requires 0 skill.
I would vote for whatever method they come up with to even out the populations. If someone can figure out how to do that then I am all for it. Transfer was my last suggestion. I said that because I know most forum complainers are going to come up with excuses for the more legit suggestions. Talking about why they can’t scout well, why they can’t respond fast enough to scouting reports, how they are always outnumbered but not because they don’t recruit more players from their guilds/server to get on the map and contribute. For those people that just believe their server cannot do better…. transfer. I didn’t say transfer to T1 but if you are at the bottom and you hate it because you can’t compete… move up a few tiers.
PLEASE tell me you are trolling right now lol no t1 guilds should be included in the list except APeX, which you left out. The guilds you listed are all blob guilds.
I suppose it would be helpful if the OP had said Best Guilds at (what)?
Best guilds at helping to pull down a win for the server on any given week?
Best guilds at fighting in the open field?
Best guilds at defending?
Depending on what the OP is asking, the answers may be quite different. I commented two months ago and said best ever was VoTF.
Outnumbered is pretty much supposed to lose (unless there is a serious skill gap). Zergs beating small groups = working as intended.
Possible “solutions”: don’t be outnumbered; set up defensive siege and leave scouts at the location to provide quick notice of attack; respond to those scouting reports quickly; do better
If your server truly just doesn’t have enough people to participate in wvw… transfer.
World vs. World is a war… a war between three WORLDS. There is absolutely nothing wrong with attacking an enemy who is fighting someone from your world. If they don’t like it, they have nobody to blame but themselves for trying to have an exclusive duel in that environment. IF you are convinced that what you are seeing is intended to be an exclusive duel, then I suppose in some sense it is polite to let it be.
For my part, the choices I make in wvw are based on what I think is helpful to my server. That is my primary goal in wvw… to contribute towards a win for my server. If I think killing someone advances that interest, I will do it (maybe the fight is happening next to a spot I am defending or perhaps I have decided the enemy is some thief trying to pick off reinforcements or disrupt our supply flow). If that’s what I think at that moment, then I am going to attack and frankly, I don’t care if you are dueling. If I think my time is better spent else ware, then I will ignore you.
Bottom line: It is wvw. It’s not OS, it’s not EOTM, and it is not spvp. If I kill you or your dueling partner on my BL and you are upset about it… my advice would be to direct your QQ else ware because I definitely don’t care.
GW2 must be getting a lot of new players still…That is the only reason why I could ever think anyone would still believe that:
A. Rank has anything to do with skill
B. PPT is anything but an asinine metric that measures population more than anything else.
If you think PPT is “asinine” why would you even be here? PPT is how the wvw competition is scored. Capping and holding territory is what this part of the game is designed around. If you don’t like it, you’re clearly playing the wrong game.
Look at you new boots! PPT is the epitome of asinine. Coverage is the name of the game in regards to PPT, so coverage = “wins”. So if your server cluster does not have coverage: you do not win.
Notice the word skill appears no where in there. I am here to kill players in an open field environment. I do not mind that some of them still feel that PPT is “important”, because those are some of the people I am filling my bags with.
Fights on the other hand can be (if properly done) independent of coverage, and therefore playing for fights can be done without regard for PPT/“winning” on the scoreboard. I am not naive enough to think that there are more people playing for fights than PPT, but I am not stupid enough to deny that the difference is much closer to the middle than it was even 1 year ago.
Please if you think PPT matters, you should post what server you are from and how much playtime you have. Because I would highly doubt anyone with significant playtime thinks PPT is a useful metric that relates anything other than coverage.
I didn’t make any statements about whether or not I believe it is a useful metric. My point was that clearly the scoreboard (and being on top of it) is what the wvw game format is about. So, with that said, if you hate it so much, what are you doing here? If I thought it sucked or that it was “asinine” I would just go play something else instead of griping about how i wish the game was about something it isn’t.
PPT is far beyond the only thing wvw is about. If he likes the fights and the pvp game mechanics, why would he leave just because he doesn’t give a dam about ppt?
Lol I didn’t say “PPT is the only thing wvw is about” so relax man. I guess my point was that clearly the devs intended the scoreboard to be a central component of the format. Obviously, the weekly matchup competition was intended to be the main focus of the wvw format and it seems that isn’t going to change. If that really bothered me as much as it seems to bother a few people in here, I probably wouldn’t play in wvw (I would look for something that lines up more with what I enjoy).
I also think alot of people like to draw this distinction between people who like fights, and people who like ppt (as if someone can’t enjoy both). PPT and fights go hand in hand. My server wants more points for the next tick… to get it, we are gonna have to fight over it and win those fights. Therein lies the fun.
GW2 must be getting a lot of new players still…That is the only reason why I could ever think anyone would still believe that:
A. Rank has anything to do with skill
B. PPT is anything but an asinine metric that measures population more than anything else.
If you think PPT is “asinine” why would you even be here? PPT is how the wvw competition is scored. Capping and holding territory is what this part of the game is designed around. If you don’t like it, you’re clearly playing the wrong game.
Look at you new boots! PPT is the epitome of asinine. Coverage is the name of the game in regards to PPT, so coverage = “wins”. So if your server cluster does not have coverage: you do not win.
Notice the word skill appears no where in there. I am here to kill players in an open field environment. I do not mind that some of them still feel that PPT is “important”, because those are some of the people I am filling my bags with.
Fights on the other hand can be (if properly done) independent of coverage, and therefore playing for fights can be done without regard for PPT/“winning” on the scoreboard. I am not naive enough to think that there are more people playing for fights than PPT, but I am not stupid enough to deny that the difference is much closer to the middle than it was even 1 year ago.
Please if you think PPT matters, you should post what server you are from and how much playtime you have. Because I would highly doubt anyone with significant playtime thinks PPT is a useful metric that relates anything other than coverage.
I didn’t make any statements about whether or not I believe it is a useful metric. My point was that clearly the scoreboard (and being on top of it) is what the wvw game format is about. So, with that said, if you hate it so much, what are you doing here? If I thought it sucked or that it was “asinine” I would just go play something else instead of griping about how i wish the game was about something it isn’t.
GW2 must be getting a lot of new players still…That is the only reason why I could ever think anyone would still believe that:
A. Rank has anything to do with skill
B. PPT is anything but an asinine metric that measures population more than anything else.
If you think PPT is “asinine” why would you even be here? PPT is how the wvw competition is scored. Capping and holding territory is what this part of the game is designed around. If you don’t like it, you’re clearly playing the wrong game.
Since only the disgruntled have responded I thought I would chime in and give you an alternate perspective:
I say, come back and try it out and answer your questions yourself. Personally I still love wvw. Stuff has changed since you last played (despite the previous poster’s opinion to the contrary) so why not give it a go and see what you think?
People complain that ANET ignores wvw and doesn’t make changes that we “need.” To a limited degree there is truth in that, but opinions about what wvw needs and/or should be are extremely diverse. Don’t decide against trying it again because of a few dissatisfied people . Try it out and see for yourself.
The OP’s opinion is just that… his opinion. The reality is there is a big variety in the reasons people play wvw and what they like about wvw (or dislike for that matter).
To proclaim that across the board PPT is a waste of time or nobody cares about it just ignorant. There are hundreds of players that are very into the matchup competition and want to win their matchups. There are also hundreds of players that don’t care about the matchup competition and just want to win random fights. There isn’t anything illegitimate about either perspective.
My guess is most people fall somewhere in between. For my part, I am very into both aspects of wvw and I don’t view them as exclusive. PPT is the big picture for me. Wvw is a competition between servers, with a scoreboard, and I prefer to see my team winning on that scoreboard. So I like to involve myself with a guild that is trying to make an impact there.
I am also very into the fights. I wouldn’t care about the PPT if it was just a matter of PvDoor all the time. When my guild is out there trying to get points for our server, we are fighting against other guilds to accomplish it and that’s what I find the most entertaining. They want this keep and so do we and there is going to be a big fight over who gets it.
I can’t beat it so therefore it is OP. Dear Anet, please nerf everything that I can’t beat until I can beat it. Then everything will be balanced fairly.
P.S.: QQ, QQ, QQ and…. QQ.
Sincerely,
The best player ever with no L2P problems
This whole post makes no sense, zerging is itself a strategy, and it is used because it is so effective. Do servers send out small teams when they need to? Sure do. The idea that nobody will figure out what to do and keep forming 60 man zergs even when it’s blatantly foolish to do so is just silly. And this does nothing to combat the problem of just being flat outnumbered; you will just be losing all your territory to 3 separate groups instead of getting steamrolled by one.
zerging is a strategy is like saying atheism is a religion. its lack of.
Zerg vs Zerg has just as much strategy as does 5 vs 5 or 1 vs 1. The real issue is that some servers have considerably higher populations than other servers and the less populated cannot compete. The solution to that problem is not to somehow nerf zergs. A solution would involve balancing the server populations.
I agree with the guy above who said that the post makes no sense (or perhaps little to no sense). The post presumes that all zergs are not implementing a strategy. I can see the logic in a highly skilled small group being able to take out a larger group of button mashers. However, to assume that all large groups (zergs) are composed of noobs and facerollers would be simply incorrect. There are plenty of zergs that are doing alot of strategic things with very skilled players. A small group of skilled players is supposed to get rolled by a larger group of skilled players.
Why would anyone play in a server vs server vs server environment and then complain about zergs? You should play tpvp if you want small group vs small group. Wvw is big, fights are big, that’s the point dude. There is plenty of strategy and skill involved in zerg vs zerg fighting. lol @ “fixing the zerg problem”…. it isn’t a problem. You’re just playing the wrong game
If you don’t like large numbers then transfer to a underpopulated server or play tpvp. Wvw is server vs server vs server… large “blobs” are exactly what one should expect in that environment.
Nah i quite like the current system, theirs something about sitting in a massive 100+ man teamspeak party with your server mates and all speculating on who you’re vsing once reset kicks in everybodies like ERMAGARD who are we vsing. Once you notice it’s Tarnished Coast and Fort Aspenwood everybody goes dead silent for like 1 minute. Then theirs the one guy who starts cracking up laughing and everybody follows suit and just starts laughing hysterically like “we’re screwed”. I like that =)
