Guild Wars 2

My thoughts behind these are pretty simple.

Utility Skill Group:
Necromancers are known to raise or deal with the dead. Minions seem like the easiest thing to drop in terms of making sense from a story telling perspective. They told us we would get a new set of utilities, ultimate and healing skill. Guess which one of our utility categories includes all of that. Minions. As to what we get I would think either something martial like perhaps STANCES or utility/mobility based like MEDITATIONS. Those would drastically change play style.

Weapon:
I think we will lose staff. Staff may not be an outright staple of every necro build, but you can always use one for something. The point of this new spec is to feel different while being similar. Staff would go a long way in accomplishing that. Staff also is a controlling/strategic weapon. I think the new spec will be aimed at less controlling/defensive mechanics

Trait Line:
I think we will lose our 3rd/middle trait line. It houses most of our staff and some of our minion relevant skills. It would make this tree ideal for wrapping up these proposed changes cleanly.

Deathshroud:
I would imagine 1-3 would stay. These are all fairly solid skill that tie into many areas of build. I think 4-5 might change. These kind of changes would make sense to me. Both classes get the first 3 but the last two are spec based. Necro uses 4-5 for great sustain and control. I think the new spec will probably be offensively focused. 4 would be a strong single target power attack of some kind and 5 a fast burst of damaging conditions (possibly aoe burning (felfire?)).

Improving drain is hard. All of our drains would need to have ICDs along with the buffed damage/healing. The only reason you can spam drain (vamp prec, vamp, vamp rituals) is because they do such little drain. The second you have them do “real” healing or damage you have to place an ICD or they are too difficult to balance without changing everything else.

But drains working in DS would be a very nice QOL. I say QOL because I hate wasting the ticks in DS but it’s not earth shattering. Sure bonus damage, but I don’t like wasting half of a skill because of a class mechanic. I would suggest going as far as allowing all boon and siphons to effect DS. Make it to where only direct healing doesn’t work. Not sure about balance since you can always have regen from Staff#2.

I don’t really mind it. It’s slightly annoying, but I got used to it in about 30 minutes. It actually helps me contrasts what’s on CD a little quicker as well. I don’t really mind it either way.

Ravezaar.4951:

Damaein.6413:

Skill doesn’t die in WvW.

Didnt say WvW said EB, read first.. post later

WvW includes EBG. Think first…post later

Someone care to share? At work still and am curious.

Skill doesn’t die in WvW. And if you are playing properly open field is just a small piece of overall strategy. I’m not attacking you, but WvW is very different from the rest of the game. Completely disregarding the fact that you need to know seige tactics, open field tactics require certain compositions. This is true of every class.

Just because you feel pigeon holed doesn’t mean that you are playing brain dead. Planning, tactics, positioning, and composition are major skill sets that you need in WvW. I would argue they are much more necessary in this game type than any other. Accounting for travel time, enemy position, supply, siege presence, siege range, objective timers, upgrade timers, zerg composition I would say WvW takes the most skill to be the best at and BY FAR the most coordination.

A well oiled guild group can consistently beat zergs +25% bigger than them if they are fighting an unorganized group. That exemplifies my point that individual skill isn’t as relevant but leadership and situational awareness makes or breaks a zerg. So while it isn’t the same TYPE of skill it is still the same AMOUNT (if not more) of skill.

WvW is heavily pushed toward Power builds. Like previously mentioned, only roamers or havok take conditions. In a zerg setting, conditions are pretty much useless. Not completely, but pretty much. But in any case, why wouldn’t you run wells in WvW. AOE spike too good. It’s like the one thing in this game we excel at (besides being focused).

Why do you run Fire instead of Air? Wouln’t that give you better dueling burst? It’s also dirt cheap. I’ve seen a lot of people run fire. Is there something I’m missing?

Question: why do you take Plague instead of Golem? Just for team fight presence I guess? I’ve just started listening to the but of corpse thing and I’m newish to PvP. I completely understand plague for WvW (where I spend most of my time) because it hits maximum target all day.

Some really interesting ideas. I feel like they are a little to involved though. I have the same problem when I go through. Just too many changes and interactions. Then you get excited on how cool it would be, but then realize that the size of the project limits the project’s success.

I agree we need some interaction. But not everything has to combo. I mean honestly. Minions don’t have good enough AI to attack properly. Suggesting advanced minion interactions kind of depresses me.

That sounds like a perfect situation. Too perfect….

I looked up khalifas d/d build and supposedly it’s out of date (no longer viable). _

For zergs run wells (with ground targetting, CDR, etc) and all staff traits. FITG is pretty great for blobbing but I would suggest hanging back and being offensive so FITG isn’t mandatory (still useful).

If you’re going to zerg or zerg bust, run well-o-mancer. I think the most prominent would be ascii’s version, but it depends on what you want to do. This would be the best damage for AOE blob fights. Terrible for roaming though.

Is there any D/D viable builds though. You basically said no without actually saying it. I want to run double incinerators and thief is for kitten.

From a lore perspective, I would guess of lot of that makes sense. They are summoned and have their wills bound. They wouldn’t do anything until commanded. Rangers pet’s have actual behavior/loyalty towards their master and thus will defend them if allowed. The minions will sit and watch their master die unless “forced” to attack.

For the banish minion button would it be like exploding a turret after using its skill or would it be hovering above the skill bar. Would it banish all with one click or have a button for each? I would hate to kill my worm for no reason. But being able to reset its cooldown without being jerked in a direction may be useful in some situations.

In terms of Lifeblast it would be homing in my version. This would make the healing on life blast reliable in and of itself. It would still only be relevant in a WvW sense most likely. But then again when do you take a reduced drop damage trait in a duel. Some skills can (should?) be useful for niche situations IMO. But remember that my theme would not bounce to an old target so it would check for nearby unique enemies and then seek. And it’s not like it would bounce across the map. The enemies would need to be somewhat close but I’m unsure of a balanced seek range.

I would like the seeking for LB and NG BECAUSE of the outnumbered potential. Multi oppenent scaling is needed for power necro I think. There are classes that survive regardless of number of opponents just from sheer CC or iFrames. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to give us something on par when we have no way to sustain through tons of damage (granted it’s offense and we are supposed to get attrition…I guess).

Before someone says DS tanks a ton of damage, please note that I’ve seen a warrior wade through a 50+ zerg by himself and get inside a keep. DS isn’t doing jackkitten close to that.

Adept level stability. Suuuuuurrrrrrreeeee thing bro

On a separate note stability doesn’t fit thematically with necro IMO. I would like to see distortion take its place kind of feels spectral-ish. As in we aren’t really tied to this world as tightly so we can just float between dimensions. That would be legit and would allow us some much needed survivability and the ability to “escape” as literally nothing could touch us for a precious few seconds.

Well there are many things. This thread was about a theoretical condition number. Not a good condition build. And I hadn’t realized you wanted a PvP build. Remember that PvP has completely separate items and rules.

This is what I use though I’m not a top level necro by any means:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArYWjc0UebxN+1webCchaqnA63MAi2o/gJIfB-TpRFwAAeAAK3fIxhAIaZgCnAAFHBAA

Just to clarify if you want an optimal build for PvE condition damage in any fashion isn’t viable (if you want top damage). 40% duration food is the most obvious choice. You lose 33 condition damage for a 40% increase in duration of all conditions.

To show the effects 33 condition damage only accounts for the damage as seen below. The right number is damage per stack per tick. If you had 25 stack of bleeding, by some miracle, it would only account for 50dps. As well you should probably run a stacking sigil for that bonus 250 condi damage.

But if you are good enough you could probably run most dungeons naked fairly easily so “good” PvE builds are about speed. While PvE builds don’t really NEED to be that efficient, most are for when you are in ultrafarm mode and time is the only factor.

because that 1 sec of bleed tick which only happens every 5 seconds is going to be that much stronger on a world boss? lol

I want a land spear more than anything. This would be my idea for one. I wanted to put a leap in so badly, but the #4 is as close to a gap closer as we will ever get on a weapon I think.

I haven’t actually attempted to balance my idea yet (other than rough ideas in my head). I can elaborate a little on some of my ideology just so we know where the changes are coming from though. I actually did give a lot of this thought, but my goal was to give an incomplete version so that more experienced people could “weed out” any things I overlooked or didn’t realize before I even bothered balancing it incorrectly.

The staff change is really only a nerf with the current scaling. In my version, some weapons are different. Staff is one of these. Necrotic grasp is a single target ability with greater speed, scaling, and tracking. the post cast animation is also decreased so you actually would attack faster. I believe the current total attack time is 1.4 where as the new would be 1.25 (3/4 before 1/2 after). In that alone, the damage increases per target and the staff would feel a little different and more responsive.

For the bouncing trait it would only hit once per target (hence seek additional targets and not simply bounce) this is thematic (seeking new blood) and practical (easier to balance vs pet classes. I also changed the marks. In my theme, I decrease the base bleed duration of Mark#2 to 6s but increase the base stack of bleeds to 3. I also decrease the power scaling of Mark#4 while increasing the scaling of Mark #2-3. This would give a little better burst condition while still keep it relevant (possibly better) for power necros in WvW. And homing is 197,563,282% better than piercing in my book because it’s reliable.

The increase to staff damage (the old spiteful marks traits) is not the same. It would overall increase power damage. The old one was marks only. The new one scales the auto. So in every way, I think the new staff would be better (possibly making staff a better main weapon in some cases ex. WvW where it’s already used heavily).

This is just one example. I have a lot of different ideas on traits that I haven’t decided on. For instance, change weakening shroud to darkness descending: on DS blind, poison, and chill. I don’t like the idea of just using a weak filler version of enfeebling blood just because it’s easy or it’s always been that way.

This would change the trait entirely. The DS stomp could become amazing with this trait. My purpose is to FORCE diversity. Terror would always be taken unless something as awesome contests its spot. My goal would be to make everything relevant, while giving nothing a guaranteed spot.

I’ve already gotten some useful feedback though. Thanks for the input guys.

Like I said in the OP a lot of changes would be thematic. For instance, Target the Weak, makes more sense to me in the top tree. It isn’t really effected by crit in any way. Makes it amazing for full power build relying on deathly perception. It also fits better, IMO, with condition duration.

A lot of the moves, are because I moved something else and a void was created. I also stated that the numbers and scaling would need to be different so this wasn’t intended as a “balance” change. These changes were suggested to make necro feel a little different. Thanks for the input.

As a side note, what did you guys think of the siphoning power idea in my second post?

Like I said some things are kind of foggy because they are actually paired with weapon changes or new weapon ideas that I have incorporated. For instance, I changed the way staff auto works in my concept so you are right about the bouncing projectile.

I actually don’t like % damage modifiers for necros. I just don’t like it thematically. I am trying to find a viable idea to replace close to death for instance. I think most people agree single target necro power is fine. Cleave, team buffs, and range is where we need help. My staff changes should help range and my new weapon would help cleave, but those aren’t really about the traits directly.

I’m still toying with siphoned power at the replacement for close to death. Grant might to nearby allies when you siphon life. It would be pretty hard to balance I would think though, but would shut a phalanx warrior up pretty quick.

I like thinking about all of the things could or should be. And I know you could probably balance most classes just by tweaking a few numbers here and there. But I would like necro to feel more unique. It’s my favorite class BY FAR, but so many classes get much cooler stuff. For instance, engineers get a ton of cool stuff that makes them mechanically different. Whether they are balanced or not they are unique.

While I would like new weapons, traits, I feel, are the best way to tangibly give variety to players. You can easily and instantly make your character feel different just by respeccing. So anyway, these are some of my thoughts.

As a note, I’m aware that with current values and scaling some things may or may not be viable whether over or under powered. This is more for the purpose of making the class have cool interactions or unique mechanics and isn’t necessarily for the purpose of “rebalancing.”

Finally some the decision may look strange. That is because I am also working on changing or creating weapons for necromancers (which includes incorporating some existing traits. Some traits may just be moved and not changed in values or otherwise. I do this for fun, but I try to make things that are actually relevant. I would appreciate constructive criticism.

Thanks

How about combining the awful Spiteful Marks trait with one of the other staff traits. Make a new trait that increases the travel speed of Necrotic blast, life blast, deathly claws and makes them deal like 25% aoe to every target hit (piercing a large clustered group would compound to a lot of damage). It wouldn’t be a true cleave but it would fit the thematic better and keep in tact anything you already had going.

And while the aoe wouldn’t be that efficient if you clear things normally, in speed runs where you are grouping and stacking etc it will clearly work (it is in this place where we are seen as lackluster anyway.)

Like I said before they will have to add weapons to everybody if they add to one and I’m not sure they want to do that for just this purpose.

Let’s compare one kitten skill to another to convince us that it is ok. Guardian Staff 1 OP

You can’t just add 1 weapon to one class. They would have to add at least one to every class. You really want to give warriors another weapon….Think things through. If you want relative string something needs to be changed or buffed. Adding is not the proper way to scale a MMO ever. Just leads to more and more crap that is unrefined/unbalanced. That’s why it has taken this long just to add the XIII GM traits. New weapons would be fun but we will surely get the short end compared to the favored classes.

And per chance how often do you use staff #1 really. Basically while you wait for DS or weapons swap to come back after doing the staff rotation.

Just change staff #1 to not be ranged. I don’t really like it being ranged anyway. Your #2 skill promotes being in melee range and the travel speed of the projectile sucks and its a clunky animation to begin with. It would differentiate lifeblast so it didn’t feel so copy pasted as well. Staff is meant for utility so make it melee utility.

Chain#1 (Reap): Cleave enemies in front of you
Chain#2 (Harvest): Cleave enemies in front of you and generate 1% LF per enemy hit
Chain#3 (Condemn): Intensify or elongate all conditions on the target by 1 stack or 1 second depending on how they stack (Bleeds, vulnerability, etc)

This would give party synergy, LF regen, and cleave. Don’t make it hit as hard as say dagger, but give it balanced damage. For animations, doing some awesome spinning whirling scythe moves would be advised.

Hey everyone,

iNfamy (US Darkhaven) is now recruiting for our tPvP teams. We already have a good player base but we are looking for serious gamers who are willing to put the time into winning. With the new PvP stuff coming, we need to establish our teams soon.

For those interested (read still reading), we have Ventrilo, a website, and many of the guild upgrades. If interested, please post your information here. Please include:

Name (Somthing we will be able to PST you with)
Main Class Role
Alt Class Role
Rank
Commitment Level (everyday/3x a week/never/etc.)

One of our members will get in contact with you. There will be tryouts and team creation but you have a few weeks for that to start. We are currently working on personalities =^D and individual skillz. I look forward to meeting you guys

Thanks
Damaein (in game Akavari)