Showing Posts For Daunt.8239:
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ReaverKane.7598
Sorry to have confused you.
choovanski.5462
Sorry to have deeply confused you.
martin.1653
No.
Master Ketsu.4569
Thank you.
Stand The Wall.6987
Thank you.
Kayluh.1397
Thank you.
Wolfric.9380
Once upon a time… GW2 had the goal of “no profession having a role in combat” and if they succeeded… Optional end potential for all aspects towards every profession would have been indirectly achieved. So you thinking that “it’s terrible if end potential is equal between professions” is irrelevant if GW2’s perspectives have not changed.
The owner and I both would disagree with you.
ReaverKane.7598
“TON OF DIVERSITY” is irrelevant to anything being tournament worthy.
Frosty.7968 // alemfi.5107
Balance is not based on the lower end.
Don’t be afraid of the game getting harder for you. It will not.
When I was calling for concepts that can allow infinite potential for the greatest of us to linearly separate ourselves from the rest it was nothing to make you upset. It was assuming GW2 still wanted a tournament worthy game.
Additionally;
Can you perform all actions optimally on your favorite character? Sounds easy right?
Everything beyond this is external and not part of a skill ceiling. Let me give examples.
Example1: Knowing what animations look like.
This is knowledge.
Example2: All the mind games we play with our opponents.
This is critical thinking/common sense.(Depending on who you are.)
Example3: Avoiding the mind games your opponent tries on you.
This is critical thinking/common sense.(Depending on who you are.)
None of these things effect the skill ceiling of a character.
These are all things that would not change if what I said was implemented.
These things exist in all games to varying degree’s.
I hope you two are getting it now because I will not explain it further.
Football. Archery. Chess. Poker.
All tournament worthy.
Their differences show you what doesn’t matter.
Their similarities show you what do matter.
I’m going to tell you why Guild Wars 2 is not tournament worthy and how to change.
More specifically, how you need to think so you can change.
Archery is possibly the greatest example because you can clearly see how simple it is.
You can argue many concepts, like the archers paradox. I know.
However it’s awesome to see and truly comprehend why it’s tournament worthy.
In GW2, everyone and no one is equal, but in the bad way of both spectrums.
Everyone can choose any profession or build.
In choosing any profession or build you must do it preemptively.
It is a blind folded and soundless game of poker with only one round.
No one… Wants to play a blind folded, soundless, single round of poker.
Beyond a certain skill level, it is merely build vs build. Not player vs player.
Confronting a build where it is impossible to kill them.
Confronting a build where they can make 10 mistakes but you only maybe make 1.
In GW2, the skill ceiling is very reachable at low skill.
In all other tournament worthy games the skill ceiling is near infinite.
I’m not talking about player level.
I’m talking how far an individuals skill gets them.
The peak of which, on a single build.
In this game is very reachable at low skill.
…Assuming proper understanding exists.
In GW2, the separation between the skilled and those lesser is almost nonexistent.
The difference between a good player, and a ever so slightly better player…
If they are of different professions, unless the skill gap is extreme…
No one knows who’s better.
So how do you make a tournament worthy game?
Well… You may not like the answer.
Tell me what to do kitten!
Don’t you realize every first person shooter has been tournament worthy?!
Every single one… and with that, every single character was truly equal.
They don’t need to be visually the same or exactly the same mechanics.
…but they do need the exact same end potential in all aspects when against each other.
That is what truly makes something tournament worthy.
Again, they don’t need to be exactly the same. They can be their own little snowflake.
However you can’t, make one a screw driver and the other held together by screws.
You also can’t make one a screw driver and another a hammer.
Stop trying to make professions unrecognizably different.
I know every other MMORPG in the history of forever has done this…
…but if you want to be tournament worthy you cannot.
It’s why no other MMORPG has ever been tournament worthy.
You can’t force a game to be tournament worthy with hype.
It has to exist as.
Now to raise the skill bar you need more player on demand mechanics.
For example, get rid of the kitten 180CD 120CD 60CD we don’t have many skills!
Yes we have timings for them but half is in a combo with a very obvious timing!
I’m not saying to do the following but for you to understand…
Imagine a block with a recharging bar.
Hold down your key and it will deplete in 1 second.
Recharges slowly and get to full by like 20 seconds or whatever… Everyone has it.
This creates a highly skill based mechanic players can deeply benefit from by flicking.
Hitting it at exactly the right time before the damage lands. Let go immediately.
In the hands of the right player they can do crazy awesome stuff with it.
Rapid fires can be dealt with by interrupts.
These are just examples, I pulled these idea’s out my kitten.
Obviously many mechanics would need changed for this to be viable.(like 180CDs)
Of course actually implementing it isn’t my point either.
My point was to give an example of a skill based mechanic with a high ceiling.
Or…
Why do ranged attacks do the same damage as melee attacks?
Why do so many AOE attacks do more single target damage than single target attacks?
Why can a purely melee in full glass do less damage than all ranged with healing stats?
This is common sense stuff!!!!!
Doesn’t GW2 want to be tournament worthy?!
I’m deeply under the impression from all I’ve heard and been told that you do.
Deeply heed what I’ve said if you wish to be tournament worthy GW2 Developers.
Ask yourself what core, fundamental, mechanic based differences do you have from all other tournament games? What is ruining you?
1] The skill ceiling for everything is overly low.
2] Each profession/build has drastically different skill ceilings.
3] You’re a blindfolded soundless single round of poker on your builds vs builds.
4] Skill between players is not linear, it’s twisty and fluctuating and no one see’s it.
REALLY? No one can mention their support?
Why can’t I get them in WvW or PvP?
FOR EXAMPLE:
If you made new gear that was 30+ points stronger per piece in comparison to other ascended trinkets and made it so you had to reach legendary in PvP rank to get them…. you would have an uproar…
Oh wait, you already did that, except it was in favor of the elitist PVE people instead of the elitist pvp/wvw people, oh riiiiight, the pvpers and wvwers are use to being pooped on and treated like this…….
THANKS ANET
Not sure where you guys stand. I’m a legendary thief. I got there solo que 10 days after rank season opened up this last season. Not something to scoff at specially considering the state of us then. We aren’t viable in tournaments and best build options in and out of tournament settings, even wvw builds, are telling us to avoid all 1v1’s.
Now on the matter of how you are speaking. It’s not a judgement of if a thief can win 1v1’s. It’s the comparison of skill needed to beat said opponents of what skill level.
POINT: In other words… I don’t care if you saw a thief win a 1v1, I do it all the time, it’s also not the subject at hand. There are more variables surrounding it then what a foolish man is personally perceiving in your little box which isn’t even the box we’re speaking on. Thieves being weak is already established and not to be argued here. I was pointing out something developers could tweak since they’ve already acknowledged the fact you’re arguing against.
(edited by Daunt.8239)
Since you guys are on the subject of eventually allowing thieves to 1v1 something other then other thieves some day… Just wanted to point out Sword #2, the after-cast-delay is so long, you can’t really do anything while they’re immobilized from it! xD
So it’s kinda like, “Okay, you stay here while we both recover from me immobilizing you for the 1 second”
Title for having achieved legendary rank status X times.
Guilded Hollow arena is WAYYY bigger then Lost Precipice arena. Why?
Ravenmoon… Don’t quote me but another possible addition to the list is Sizer who seems to have quit… he just plays poker now.
LionChain… I said what I said because you don’t belong here and I was pointing it out. The entire basis of every statement you make is based upon what you heard and what you saw. I’d also like to point out that there is so much wrong with your reply to me that we could make paragraphs in response on every single sentence you made. Which WOULD be hilarious… however not worth the time, because as I said, you don’t even belong here.
(edited by Daunt.8239)
Kolompi… not through mechanics however a skilled player can land more hits more consecutively in faster repetition with more keen set ups and rotations giving more damage. It was mentioned because balance is not based around lower tiers. It’s based around the highest tier. It was mentioned because I was speaking on facts and where balance is dictated.
LionChain… You are not a thief, and you do not play in the higher rankings. I don’t care about what you heard or what you saw. We’re trying to talk about what is. I’m not here to teach you. I’m simply pointing somethings out to developers because they seem incompetent.
Shovel Face… Your first post to me. Shadowstep can be countered by the person down on the ground simply timing just as good as you… that’s not a safe stomp it’s just something that forces people on your skill level for a short moment. Of course that’s ignoring terrain issues, group fights, 50sCD, and you’re losing a stunbreak and condition clear when you weren’t CC’d or needing condition clear. Pistol#5 is a tiny little blind AOE that got nerfed, it only applies blind 3 times and everyone around you can easily do $#%! to you specially considering it’s smaller then melee range, it’s nothing more then a LearnToPlay issue if pistol#5 is ever anything more then a combo ring and a single blind, it’s not even a “safe stomp” it’s like a “help a little”… Stealth stomp isn’t a thing either! You can’t run shadow arts so it ends before you even finish the stomp, people got reveals, it’s obvious where you are or will be shortly before the stomp even if you chained shadow step with it. Impact Strike you’re vulnerable to the enemy team interrupting/bursting/CC you the entire time!!! who cares if it’s 2.75 cast time instead of 3s and stops the downed person from slowing down the kill, it’s not a safe stomp, it’s no big deal that the downed person can’t slow their death if they were dead anyway… the whole point of safe stomps is the fact that enemies have teammates, and those teammates can stop you from finalizing at all How does this compare to real safe stomps of other professions Stabilities, immunity to damage, immunity to conditions, the raw DPS other professions able to just power house down the enemy even while he’s being revived.
Do the developers know that even after the auto attack buff to the thief…
A Legendary Ranked Marauder Thief even with fully offensive traits and CC’s(Little personal survival potential in any realistic manor.) do not have the DPS to take down: Equal Status; Scrapper/Druid/Elementalist/Revenant.
It’s Even Worse Then It Sounds:: Even if they are not attacking back to mitigate time and cause delay.(We’ve tested this in arena’s.) If they are solely keeping alive. We do not have the DPS… Even if they are in marauder or berserk like thieves are forced to be. Not even paladin.(Which many are in paladin in real matches.)
We can’t tank. We can’t sustain. We have $%#! burst. We have $%#! sustained dps. We have $%#! single target. We have $%#! multitarget. We have $%#! shared boons and shared condiclear. We have $%#! health. We have virtually no stability. We can hardly fight on point. We have the $%#!iest safe stomps. We have the $%#!tiest ranged attacks. Remotely viable condibuilds don’t exist. We can’t 1v1 anyone who is on our skill level(character creation still states we are the deadliest 1v1)
Novuake is right and StickerHappy is afraid of losing the only build he can win ranked with.
Nethod has a HUUUUUGE point. We shouldn’t have to PvE for WvW stuff. I fully support.
Did they remove your ability to get ascended gear/weapons/rings from PvP? I haven’t gotten a single once since HOT.
In addition to the guardian remark… I like how engies now have a MOVING shadow refuge on 30cd that DOESN’T BREAK when you leave the aoe.
A long time ago, a sarcastic question was given to developers, if they were going to take stealth away from thieves and give it to the guardian. The developers laughed at the sarcastic remark made by the thieves.
…now present day gw2. Trapper runes for guardian and stealth thief is out of the meta.
Guys, a moment in thief history just happened:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/This-is-like-finding-a-unicorn
LOL I don’t believe it, developers don’t play thief, they couldn’t if they wanted to.
I hope developers read what people have to say.
I also hear what my mother has to say. She doesn’t hold her breath though.
That’s hilarious.
I hope developers read what people have to say.
I’m sorry for not listing everything. It was mostly just as overview that would someday be read eventually if it survives long enough.
LOL this thread.
Character creation states deadly 1v1 potential.(It still does.)
You nerf our stats lower than any other class.
You invent reveal.
You invent single utilities that alone could counter entire stealth builds.
You nerf what we moved over to in avoidance of stealth.(S/D)
Forced away from S/D and to a single build choice on any real competitive level with a pathetic 1v1. Then you nerf that a little bit… but it’s still our best option…
Present day:
You PARTIALLY give us back what you took away in the first place(S/D. Yet still a shadow of it’s former self.) Then gave everyone else all this cool stuff. Welcome to GW2HOT.
You realize that they fired developers over at ESO when they were making AOE damage classes do higher single target damage with their AOEs then the single target rogue right???
Worst 1v1. Lowest health. Weak single and aoe damage on both sustained and burst.
There are AOE BURSTS STRONGER THAN OUR SINGLE TARGET MELEE BURST. Who also hold higher sustained than us.
(edited by Daunt.8239)
If you are going for PVE. You can accomplish everything a soldier can. Faster. Much. Faster.
I disagree with every word of original poster. Balance is not based on “just started playing thief recently”. You have no right to talk on behalf of the thief community as if you are one.
Dear Anet, get a grip, give your thief more attention.
I fully support original poster.
Embolism.8106:: You were not rude at all, I’m not trying to be rude, but… Given the nature of the ability, your opponents don’t know what they are doing or you’re in soldiers/sentinels, if a dps mesmer can’t drop you in 10 seconds with you holding your hands off the keyboard. Additionally if “Disengagement” was the purpose of the ability they can make it time freeze or prism them where they don’t take damage but can’t do anything either.
StickerHappy.8052:: I do RankedTeamspeak, UnrankedSolo and WvW, it is most apparent when there is a 1v1 between me and anyone who isn’t tanky on stats/gear alone.
Ross Biddle.2367:: I have ever right to say something when I feel that I myself have a win button. Balance is balance and if you’ve only been moa’d a few times you don’t play often, rarity has nothing to do with impact regardless. It’s also not 3 dodges. There is the 5 on moa but the two inherit don’t instantly refill and were likely used in attempts to avoid possible moas any time the mesmer appeared to be casting something or avoiding heavy hits, you don’t just sit on your dodges in case I have the win button because I might just kill you without it if you approach like that.
Exciton.8942:: There is not a single 180CD(or higher) ability that is as game changing. It’s effectively a form of 10 second daze. This is an instant kill button depending on stat set. This is one optional elite that makes a large array of stat set and build choices an instant death encounter when facing you. If removing them for 10 seconds is the goal then make a player frozen between time rifts or trapped in a prism for 10 seconds. No need to instakill without skill if they have the wrong stat set.
DeathReign.7821:: It’s not 3 dodges. There is the 5 on moa but the two inherit don’t instantly refill and were likely used in attempts to avoid possible moas any time the mesmer appeared to be casting something or avoiding heavy hits, you don’t just sit on your dodges in case I have the win button because I might just kill you without it if you approach like that. It’s also not about points. It’s about the 1v1. Balance is not restricted to RankedArenaTeamspeak.
Sandzibar.5134:: Yep, it’s a funny quirk. Same thing happens to other NPCs.
1 second cast time
180 cooldown
1200 range
10 seconds of no healing
10 seconds of no condiclear
10 seconds of no stunbreak
10 seconds of no damage mitigation excluding one dodge
10 seconds of no range attacks
10 seconds of no real damage output
The “counters” are inherit. Given the above information. Interrupt a mesmer any time they look like they are casting something. Dodge/block every single time the mesmer looks like they are casting something… so on. Of course, the mesmer can just be invisible?
“AM I CASTING IT? AM I CASTING IT? BETTER DODGE! BETTER INTERRUPT! Haha, just joking I’m gona go invisible for 2 seconds before I cast. LOL”
You have an instant win button for anything of or less than celestial defenses. You can do SO MUCH to someone with their keys useless for 10 seconds.
The mesmer doesn’t know what they’re doing or has kitten dps if they can’t kill someone who isn’t tanky on stats alone and is a completely defenseless moa incapable of any recognizable response for 10 seconds.
POINT: There is no real counter to moa. Why?
2nd POINT: Having such a powerful hard counter to an entire array of enemy “stat set choices” off one button alone is just stupid.
When the thieves from thieves guild reveal themselves, the thief is revealed as well.
How can I buy the expansion upgrade without buying gw2 again? I already own gw2.
Am I able to upgrade my existing account/characters to heart of the thorns. So I can keep all my characters but still move on to GW2HOT?? I see no option for that. I only see buying the game all over again. Also so everyone knows the purchase page doesn’t work on google chrome. The rest of gw2 works on google chrome and all other purchase pages…. why not that one? Might want to fix that.
Still broken! ……………fix it please
Still not working………………………………………………………………………
!STILL NOT WORKING!
PopeUrban.2578
Realistically speaking, I understand, and even agree. However unrealistically we need the numbers to match up and nonthiefs in the Anet team to agree. We already have the lowest dps and health. Something that makes sense isn’t going to appeal to them if the numbers don’t match what they’ve already predetermined specially with the bias beating thief down.
I stand by what I said in my original post.
When Edge of the mists was first released, it was stated that it was intended as a place for people waiting in Que/NoAction to have something related that they can still do and to test things before applying them to real WvW.
That being said, I DO NOT BELIEVE they intended large masses of UpLved people gather and speed gain 10lvs per hour consistantly.
Attack me all you want, I said it…
- Remove EXP from EOTM
- Remove Karma from EOTM
- Lightly increase reward gain to compensate loss, if at all
Return to original intent.
Get more realistic results.
UpLvs cluttering precious, limited, space in competitive test environments to do something that was not intended…
REALLY?! FIX IT!
Arden Flameseeker.5036
If only that’s how they operated… Thank you for the reply though. I have a feeling the community is alone on this matter. Then of this community only those capable of helping, then willing to help, then happening to stumble upon this thread… while in the midst, nothing to gain for themselves.
PopeUrban.2578
I greatly appreciate the time and care you spent on your post, and /(9) was in fact added. However on a personal level I feel as though it balances to delicately from being greatly underpowered to greatly overpowered.
AM traits can be fairly strong. Additionally LR was meant to be a fairly powerful drop of a dime savior that could cover a large range of circumstances as well as be easily turned around into a sudden offensive burst when everything else was exhausted on your last thread of life. However… it was with the nature of the beast that it’s unpredicted… immense… failure came to light. As such the replacement needs to be up to par with what it was meant to be and what all other AM traits are.
To give an example of my initial statement, to delicately to strong or to weak. Some cross roads with your idea which many others have had, are things such as double stealth attacks. Which when we work around that it is either:
1. The duration is either appalling to short and hardly an impact on the fight and much more situational rather than being just as good in a wide variety of builds and circumstances.(which is how you had it)
2. Leaving us unable to do stealth attacks at all.
It’s as if no matter which road we end up taking it’s going to be either much to weak or much to strong based on the unavoidable nature of the beast alone. For that, I personally dislike /(9) and nothing will sway me from this simply because this is how it is. However I’m not here to silence people. I also don’t wish for arguements. So /(9) was in fact added… I’m simply saying I protest.
Kadin.2356
Thank you very much!
Tell me something I haven’t done, and I’ll try it.
ONLY HAPPENS WITH GW2
Windows 7 / 64bit
16Gb RAM
AMD FX6300 3.50ghz Six-Core CPU
AMD Radeon R9 200 series GPU
WDC WD10 EzEx-08M2NA0 SATA 1TB HD
Completed:
- Repaired Client
- Fully Uninstalled/Reinstalled
- Disk Check
- CPU Check
- GPU Check
- RAM Check
- Update Bios
- Reset BIOS
- Updated Drivers Manually
Crash logs vary from Gw2 using near 80% of that 16gb to GoChar to unable to load a projective animation…. From high settings to low settings, from 5 minutes after logging in to 13 hours later. From recieving a crash log to not even being given one at all. It’s always different. ONLY GW2
Nephrite.6954
I understand, didn’t mean to take it serious.
Edit: I’ve sincerely encountered people of that caliber. In fact, you’re the first one who wasn’t serious while saying things of that nature for years…
(edited by Daunt.8239)
You may be experiencing skill lag(very common in WvW on some servers, sometimes hardware issue or internet provider). That mixed with pistol cast-time. As well as bullet travel time. To put more control in your own hands/skill, you can hold control and right click your number 1 ability to completely stop auto attacking, this will allow you to pause for a very tiny moment before stealth. Hope I helped enough.
Jana.6831
You were off topic, end of story, it is what it is. I was not trying to be rude and I’m still not. Everyone is entitled to their say and their perspective but there is a place and time for everything… 2+2 being 5 is not an opinion but if it was, this is not the place for it. This topic is beyond that. This is for the solution now that we have already established 2+2 being 4. You also don’t need to defend yourself. I respect you, but please. You are falling upon deaf ears here. This is not the place for it friend.
Edit: Wanted to be nice.
(edited by Daunt.8239)
Jana.6831
The issues with Last Refuge are already confirmed and acknowledged by developers, you are in the wrong place if you want to debate if it needs changed or not. Which is funny because 2+2 being 4 isn’t something to be debated, it’s just a matter of getting others to comprehend it. Please stay on topic, I don’t want to argue with people on this thread.
Nephrite.6954
You went from saying /(5) would make no difference in one post to over exaggerating the numbers and making assumptions of OP toward /(5). Common sense lost?(I don’t want a response)
Kadin.2356
Thank you for contributing to the topic and staying goal focused. You must be a frequent PvPer or WvWer!
/(8) Has been added.
(edited by Daunt.8239)
I think 4&5 wouldn’t make much of a difference… 6 would be weird and kind of OP in a sense but I’ve read from another forum giving a great suggestion, I honestly forgot it was who(must be in one of the few LF post) he said something about being immune to reveal for a few mili seconds when LF is activated or seconds 1or2 just enough time for the player to react towards it basically.
/(6) Has been adjusted.
/(7) Has been added.
PLEASE READ ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE POSTING:
This thread is going to be a collection of realistic suggestions that can replace Last Refuge as requested and acknowledged by developers found here: DeveloperConfirmation&Request
-Please try to keep it “Shadow Arts Related”.
-Please try to keep strengths around that of other Minor Adept Traits.
GOAL:
Last Refuge is a trait that is suppose to help you survive but can sometimes do the opposite of it’s intended use by Anet. We are here to provide the developers with realistic suggestions that can fix or take the place of Last Refuge as requested.
Possible Acronyms Used By Posters:
AOE: Area of effect= Anything that has an effect over an area usually with specific radius.
LR: Last Refuge Trait= Adept Minor Trait in shadow arts; Drop blinding powder at 25% health.
SA: Shadow Arts Trait Line= The trait line under discussion for the thief profession.
AM: Adept Minor Trait= Very first trait for any trait line for any profession.
CD: Cool Down= Many things have a timer before it can be activated again. This is referred to as the cool down of said item.
COLLECTION:
/(1) Remove the stealth aspect and increase the blind AOE radius. Blinds are still deceptive and can use the same visual effect.
/(2) No serious builds utilize Hidden Thief specially at it’s current location… It’s too weak. Other AMs buff steal. Allow SA to do the same.
/(3) First Refuge, your first direct damage hit applies stealth adjust CD for balance. Maybe switch locations with Hidden Thief too.
/(4) 2-7% Damage reduction only while in stealth. A temporary trait is better than one that does the opposite of intended use.
/(5) 7-25% Damage reduction only while in stealth and only while below 40% health. Apply the said stealth by outside means.
/(6) Gain 4-6 initiative when below 50-70% health 60-90s CD.
/(7) Average human reflex time on a visual is a little over 0.25s, immune to reveal for 0.30s after activation. Stealth Attacks cannot trigger.
/(8) Instead of gaining stealth, gain invisibility. No reveal but no benefits of stealth. Works independently. Temporary and uncontrolled.
/(9) Gain Xs of stealth, activation removes reveal as well as grants immunity for the duration, Adjust CD and durations for balance.
(edited by Daunt.8239)
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