Showing Posts For Doxie.4037:
Well my second argument still stands. No matter what anyone suggests, players will kitten about it and complain that it’s OP when there are warriors that have access to 50% crit chance, plenty of 10%+ damage traits, good stat increasing traits and have utilities up the * that have WAY more use than what thieves have.
Fact is: Everyone wants thieves to stay still so they can 1-hit them. And because of it anything that would give thieves any form of viability will be called OP.
So no offense, I really don’t care if you think it’s OP unless you think you have a better idea.
Your suggestion is just too much utility.
Your notion that the thief needs group utility is agreed upon, but this method is just too much. We currently have very little access to group utility (venomshare is in a bad place, thrill of the crime is pretty much our only offensive boon share, and we have 0 access to defensive boons, and stealth is very very subjective). Beyond boons we simply don’t bring that much to groups (mediocre aoe damage, high melee damage but low survivability).
My “Better Solution” as you call it would be to simply tweak the numbers on the class (higher base HP, armor to make up for being in melee 24/7) and give us some group utility of some kind. I’d love a unique brand of utility (like mesmer portals or warrior warbanners) but that may be too large a swing for a patch. Small steps, like accessible defensive or offensive boon sharing would be great.
Sanduskel trolls the thief forum all day, every day. It’s wise not to take his advice.
I can only comment on what I know as a thief, which all I do is WvW. In that reguard, it’s been getting worse.
- Shortbow cluster bomb range was nerfed w/o any buff.
- d/p is about to be made irrelevant
- Shadow refuge is also about to be nerfed to hell.
- anti-stealth traps were introduced
- rangers have an anti-stealth ability on their peIm sure I’m missing more but this is only for WvW.
I haven’t read anything about shadow refuge are you talking about infiltrators return?
Likely he is talking about infusion of shadow not functioning with the pulsing aspect of shadow refuge.
I’m assuming your skills are HiS, deception X3?
I think more HP is definitely needed since there is no way to make a fight short against a warrior (or many other builds in WvW for that matter). Your HP is probably in the low 12k right now, which is not high enough in my opinion. If you are set on lyssa rune, replace some zerker with valk would be a good idea.
Due to your low HP, you must go deception so that you can extract when the damage comes. While deception makes a thief unkillable, it also makes it so that there are many targets that the thief simply can’t output enough damage to kill quickly. Anyone that has ran 0/30/30/10/0 has more than likely had experience with deception.
As for trait selection, I think your focus on critical chance (along with your gear selection) is too heavy. And you should take VI in acrobatics for better maneuverability. I is extremely situational and should just be grabbed when you use it that once or twice a night.
I personally run 0/30/30/10/0 as well, but I run a variation of Cruuk’s signet build. The idea behind the build is that you have 25 stacks of might on-demand, and you have the ability to boost your attack up to 4600+ for a period of 11 seconds, allowing you to plow through even 3600+ armor.
The drawback is that you are less survivable because you are only bringing one deception (blinding powder), and your stun break doesn’t generate instant distance between you and the hot zone. However, if you learn how to play with the build and around those limitations, you hit like a truck even on the heaviest targets.
0/30(II,VIII,XII)/30(IV,V,XI)/10(VI)/0
signet of malice, infiltrator sig, blinding powder, assassin’s sig/sig of shadow (situation pending), basilisk/dagger storm (situation pending)Add in the food, bloodlust, and might stacks, and you can get up to 4708 attack (i usually use dragon buns, so more likely 4608).
Post dec. 10 the build will change a little and you will probably only stack 18-20 stacks of might instead of 25, although the theorycraft for incoming changes are still in progress.
Thanks, this is very helpful. I feel like I need the deceptions to survive because any more than a glance in my direction and I die, but perhaps rearranging my gear for survivability might be better. It feels counter-intuitive to give up dps stats when I already feel like I do too little damage, but taking utilities can make up for it I guess.
That is crazy damage. I am so far below that it’s insane, and I didn’t even realize how low I was (although the 39k backstab is with assassins signet popped, under 50%) that is still insane. His normals were hitting for 10k.
Gear is 3 knight pieces, 2 berserker pieces, berserker jewelry, berserker weapons (D/P, SB), with lyssa runes. traits are 0/30(I, III, XI)/30(V, X, XI)/10(I)/0
(edited by Doxie.4037)
Also, thief brings the highest single target DPS the game has to offer if done right.
Don’t you mean Greatsword warrior?
this is funny a pure greatsword warrior is barely above necros while axe/mace+gs still ties for 4th place with s/wh ranger
I am doing it wrong then. I see greatsword warriors do more in a single hundred blades than I do in a long time. When I see a GS warrior drop 27-30k (which is also aoe, although not what we are talking about) damage on a mob in one hundred blades cast, followed by swings for 4-5k crits on autoattacks I really feel left behind. I am nowhere near that as a thief. What is the single target dps max based on? D/D and full signets? S/P?
(edited by Doxie.4037)
My Spec is 0/30/30/10/0. Is it worth going to shortbow just to drop poison fields? Most warriors I run into must have reduced condition duration as it seems to fall off constantly, and staying in range for dagger poison (a full chain of autoattacks) is hard to keep up throughout a long fight.
I mainly play WvW D/P-SB, and I can never kill warriors in a one on one fight. It’s rare they can kill me either, but a fight goes like this:
I open and do low damage, which they heal immediately.
We have back and forth trading dodges and damage.
If I vastly outplay him the most I can hope for is to chip away at his health extremely slowly.
If I slip at all and he lands a stun or immobilize I either die quickly or am forced to “reset” and the warrior gets healed up again.
If he gets anywhere near dead he will likely run away, and I have a hard time pursuing. I can usually get away as well (unless he lands his super wombo combo)
Is it just a stalemate that both sides should avoid?
Also, thief brings the highest single target DPS the game has to offer if done right.
Don’t you mean Greatsword warrior?
Three fights with no context, no information on the other people’s gear, and against clearly awful players. I’m sure that speaks to the situation as a whole.
Just saying.
So if I have a +5 agony infusion, and put it into a piece of gear then there is no way to remove it right? So if we are doing +1 agony infusion per run, does combining two +1 infusions make a +2? combining two +2 infusions makes a +3 or a +4?
The first case would mean 16 runs for a +5 which is then consumed upon slotting, and you would have to do 32 more to get a +6 infusion?
To give concise feedback on this set of changes my observation is this: The changes seem to be aimed at preventing mechanics the developers do not like (unlimited stealth, overvalued traits), but they do so by creating further imbalance in traits and abilities. Infusion of shadows is now unfieldable. By increasing baseline regen and nerfing infusion of shadows it seems that philosophically you have just killed a trait that was only hanging on due to the perma-stealth mechanic.
That isn’t to say I don’t understand. Permastealth is broken. I think your intent for the class was to have thieves popping in and out of stealth frequently by only taking brief respites into stealth. Why not incentivize that? What if you did away with Infusion of shadows, and revamped it to something like:
Stealth lasts 1 second less, stealth immunity lasts 1 second less.
or
Stealth immunity lasts 1 second less, gain 1 initiative when stealthing.
or
gain 1 initiative on stealth, stealthing grants you swiftness for the same length as your stealth. (to make reopening faster/more convenient)
My suggestions are “off-the-cuff” but I really feel like you have not incentivized the playstyle you want to see only penalized the mechanics you don’t (which has in turn simply changed the pecking order of traits, not resolved the desirability of choices between them).
I would love to see variation in thief builds like one that is incentivized to stay in stealth longer while one is incentivized to come out quickly (one has more overall heal in stealth, but it is regen, while one has less heal that is frontloaded so that it could open more quickly).
(edited by Doxie.4037)
The Dec. 10th changes seem reasonable for the reasons listed, but my thief still seems like it has a ton of problems which have not ever been addressed.
Our utilities are truly lackluster. They have long cooldowns and are not as useful as most classes’ 1-5 abilities. The only good ones are for running away (through stealth or teleportations). Please take a look at them and give us some group utility!