Guild Wars 2

Wildkitten.3872:

This from your OP…

“Also I think it would be very big of you, and really appropriate, if you issued just a small apology for the whole thing.”

So yes, you did say they should apologize.

And yes, when you say things like "So I just want to group my thoughts here as a game designer myself " that IS you saying “Hey listen to me cause I am an expert” because there is absolutely NO OTHER REASON TO SAY IT.

Okay last one then bed XD

Yes I did in my original statement say they should apologize. However as I have now stated several time you should READ POSTS AND NOT JUST JUMP TO THE CONCLUSION, I have changed my mind over the course of listening to other people’s comments. I don’t believe they need to apologize I have changed my opinion, and guess why, because that is what people do, they listen to facts. They take their ego out of the equation and don’t care about always being right and they listen to what others have to say and learn from that. That is what I did.

Again for your assault of who I am and what I stated. The same statement could be made by a cook coming in and saying “I am a cook myself and I want to gather my ideas as a cook on the subject.” I’m not saying I am better than you, I am saying I am a game designer here is what I believe in relation to this specific situation. Those other aren’t saying “hey listen to me I am an expert!” They are just stating who they are! I grouped my thoughts as a game designer. You are taking that as a threat for god knows what reason.

Thanks again for posting and have a wonderful night

Wildkitten.3872:

Well you know what, a lot more people are affected by war and guns and other things portrayed in the game than ever could be by what happened in France. Should the wars in the game be taken out? Should the guns? You are the one making the claim that this was in poor taste and have demanded an apology for it, so if they should remove this and apologize for it, then you must think they should take out and apologize for other content that could be much more offensive to much more people.

As to the other, yes, you do present yourself as someone who is “more important” because there is no other reason to drop the line “I am a game designer”. You try to set yourself up as some form of expert by doing so which by it’s very definition means you think you have greater authority to speak on the subject. If you didn’t feel this way, you would not have said it. And no one should make claims like that without being willing to back them up.

There is absolutely nothing for Anet to fix. In fact, I demand an apology from you because your inability to enjoy a simple April Fools day prank extremely offends me.

(Message shortened for Body Length reasons)

Okay this is my last post because I am still working and need to go home and sleep :P

Again as I stated before. You should take the time to fully digest what is being stated. I never once said they had to apologize. I said they should seek to rectify the issue. However they see fit to do so is their option. I am just saying I think with this much public outcry they should seek to do something to fix this issue.

As for the “game designer” issue. If someone came in here and made the statement “I am a reporter here is what I think of the issue from my area of expertise” that is the same thing as what I stated. I didn’t not come in here saying “I DESIGN VIDEO GAMES SUCH AS BLAH BLAH BLAH AND BLAH BLAH BLAH. THAT MEANS I AM QUALIFIED AND YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO ME.” Just like the reporter scenario I just stated I have a background in game design. I’m not better than you or anyone or the reporter I am just saying from the perspective of a game designer this is what I believe. Again, I don’t need your approval to make my statement, in-fact, you arguing that I have to prove myself makes it seem as though you are telling me I need to be some authoritative figure and produce some credentials before anyone can listen to my opinion. Simply because I stated my occupation. I am not better than anyone in this thread or forum. I have said it several times. I just wanted to talk about it from my point of view and now you are actually assaulting me for who I am. I am just a dude who plays GW2, designs video games, and writes on forums. I am not a god or better than anyone else.

As for your apology. I apologize. I do not mean to offend you for being upset with the way they handled this issue. I never meant to do you harm in feeling that way or expressing my opinions. That being said I still believe in what I have stated and do not regret having those beliefs, nor was it ever my intention to do you any harm. Finally if this many people have an issue then I would say yes, ANet does need to, at the very least, do something to rectify the issues at hand.

Thanks for your comment and thanks for helping the thread

abbetd.5912:

As a game designer, you should understand that you will always offend somebody, somewhere. You should also understand that this patch was conceived and much of its development done before the tragic plane crash.

As I said in another thread, there are guns in this game, while people are affected by gun violence daily. There is war in this game, though people are affected by war all over the world. There is death, while people lose loved ones in their real life. If you exclude everything that might cause discomfort, you’ll end up with an empty, boring game.

very valid point. I agree we shouldn’t let violence and war effect our ability to enjoy something. My only issue on that front is that people, regardless of if we agree with them or not, were offended. ANet doesn’t necessarily need to apologize, they should just address it because a substantial amount of people seem to have an issue with it.

Thanks for your comment and thank you for reading.

Wildkitten.3872:

First off Mr. I Want Attention By Creating a Whole New Thread and Claim I Am a Game Designer, the obvious parts of the mechanics ARE able to be turned off. The outstretched arms, well, if that annoys you or anyone else, you should really seek counseling, and I mean that in all sincerity because it shows you have deep issues to let a simple few pixels being outstretched in a game bother you.

Okay. First of all you need to read other comments before you make accusations about people and what they are saying. I specifically stated several times that I don’t believe me being a game designer makes me better than anyone else and I don’t think I even need to validate this point because it’s inherent value in the situation was only to explain my background and how I was looking at the scenario. YOU are the one assuming I am taking some personal high road believing I am better than other people. I AM NOT! Specifically because of that I prefer to not give any credentials because this isn’t something that needs sharing. I’m not trying to prove I’m better at game design than anyone so why do I need to share personal information with you unless I’m trying to say what I have done is better than what you have done? I’m saying that is my background.

You want to fling hateful words at me just to make yourself seem like you have some deeper understanding of me based upon what I have said go ahead. It has no validity in the conversation and makes you look juvenile. I’m not bothered by “a simple few pixels” I’m bothered by the fact that ANet consciously made a decision to do something inherently shortsighted. I don’t hate them for it, we all do it, I just want them to fix it! They made it so people who play a certain way cannot enjoy themselves in the game.

I agree with your second point we don’t need to let tragedy ruin peoples ability to have fun. Yes things happen all the time. We cannot stop enjoying things because that happened. I was never saying we shouldn’t enjoy the joke. What I am stating is that there are people who are offended. People have a right to be offended. It isn’t just one person either which, to me, would mean that they made a mistake, even if it was unintentional. I’m not saying they are bad people I am just saying they made a mistake and should seek to rectify it as soon as they can.

As for other holidays, players are never specifically forced to engage with those parts of the game. Yes they see them, yes they are in the game, but players don’t have to use them or acknowledge them in their game-play experience. If they want they can ignore them or go to a different city in the case of the Halloween event. Forcing players to view the game in a specific way and not be able to control their characters is inherently wrong. This current event is not an external experience in the game. It is internal, exclusive to how the player controls their character. This fully effects how they play and experience the game. How they control their character is a basic way in which they interact with the world around them. They don’t have a choice in that, they have to use their controls and character model to experience the game. They willingly choose to deal with those external effects, they don’t have to.

For your final point I never said they had to make everyone happy. I know this is impossible. There will always be outliers who don’t enjoy the things they do. However in this case a very large part of the community is upset. That should be addressed. Also any good game designer knows you do everything in your power to make everyone happy, even if they are a small percentage, if it is possible. Most of the time there are people unhappy, but you still always strive to make everyone as comfortable as possible without hurting other players. This violates that rule. Players are being hurt for the sake of a joke mechanic. Even if you enjoy it, it isn’t fair to those players.

Regardless of what is being said I still thank you for reading and commenting on the post

Solori.6025:

Dragon.8612:

You all realize you don’t have to read what I say right? You could just ignore it if you have nothing constructive to say or don’t agree with it.

You make a post on the forums and immediately don’t want feedback unless people agree?
Do you how forums work?

Do you know how to read? Never once did I say I didn’t want feedback or people to disagree with me, in fact, I welcome it. I specifically asked for it. I just asked if people could be constructive instead of just spewing hate. I never told them they couldn’t do that either. I simply asked them a question related to what they were doing.

sparc.3649:

mXz.4512:

This + delete all said associated complaint threads.

Plus ban all the whiners from the forum! At least anyone that has created a redundant thread!

your comment is asinine and helps no one. If you don’t like people’s opinions don’t read them. No one should be banned for giving their opinion or making “redundant” threads. If they choose to merge threads that is fine but no one is at fault for giving their opinions. It’s a public forum.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Dragon.8612:

The fact is they aren’t using this tragedy for this reason, people who were effected by the tragedy have spoken out about it and are upset, so it has actually offended people.

I’d be willing to bet all my gold and tradable items that if the tragedy had occurred via Kenya airlines this would never have even been brought up.

If anything Mods should start merging all these threads. That would make more sense.

If mods choose to do that then yeah it would save the overload on the forums. I also don’t think you are right. People care about current events and how things effect other human beings. Most people don’t like to offend others and I think a lot of people would still say they had an issue no matter where the event occurred. Just because people don’t care about being insensitive on the internet 85% of the time doesn’t mean people are like that in real life.

Wildkitten.3872:

Dragon.8612:

Ferguson.2157:

I’m a game designer too (or am I posing) and I thing it’s wonderful what they have done!

(I’m glad I clarified my qualifications in order to comment i a way that will show my opinion is superior to other, unqualified posters. I may be a game designer, a wonderful dresser, and an all around nice guy, really I may be, and I have certificates to prove it!)

Yes I thought about this point you are making and I realized I would rather not give my personal credentials out just to prove who I am seeing how this is just a post on a forum for an event that occurred in a game. Just giving my opinion, if you want to believe me or not that is entirely your decision. Thanks for responding

So please tell us, what games have you designed? You say you don’t want to give out credentials, but you have no problem trying to act superior by claiming to be something. If you aren’t willing to back it up, then it’s meaningless and should be taken as the troll comment it likely is.

If you read other comments you would see that I literally gave this as just a reference point to say I had a background in this field and that is where my opinion comes from. I never once said I was better than anyone else. You are just assuming that. Again I don’t feel the need to divulge my personal information, specifically because I don’t think it makes me better than anyone else. I just used this to give context to my point of view.

LouDrew.1340:

Anyone who thinks this is offensive needs a large, large, large, large, large dose of reality.

Literally getting offended just for the sake of getting offended. What a joke.

The real April Fools joke is you clowns being perpetually kitten on the forums.

The real joke is that you think you can insult people for having their own opinions on a public forum. You need a reality check and you need to learn some manners. If you have nothing nice or constructive to say you can leave and say nothing at all. No one here is hating on ANet or other players we are just voicing our opinions and concern so stop acting like someone is attacking you or the game itself. Otherwise your comment is just hateful and childish.

Klonoa.7068:

I can’t believe people are upset about this. It’s for one day and it’s hilarious. Get the stick out of your kitten.

People have a right to their opinions. If you don’t like it don’t read it! You could even make a post about your opinion of it if you wanted to!

RoseofGilead.8907:

As I said, I don’t think this was a bad idea. For every role player this may have offended, there is a player who is currently running around LA giggling their butt off at how funny this is to them. Why does one section of the player population matter more than another?

GW2 is a continuation of GW1, which made a big deal of its April Fools events every year. The first year was a gender swap. The next year, everyone was a stick figure. The next year, everyone was Gwen-chan. And so on, and so on. So, making a big deal out of a game playing a prank, even one that removes a choice of participating, seems odd to me when they have a history of doing just that.

As for the recent airline tragedy, I do not see the comparison here. These are cartoon character running around like children, pretending to be an airplane, making ridiculous sounds. My first thought when I saw this stuff in game was not “Omg, plane crash”. Heck, the plane crash wasn’t even in the top 10 things I first thought of. I realize other people may make a connection at other times. I also realize that some people are more sensitive to things. However, there is no correlation whatsoever between the April Fool’s Day prank and that awful plane crash.

People obviously have a right to feel how they feel and to even feel offended. But I think it’s completely ridiculous to be truly offended about a very benign (and very temporary) April Fool’s joke.

Well as you said in your statement why can’t everyone be equal that is exactly the issue. I am not so upset with the fact that the comparison is being made to a tragedy but more with the poor execution of the in-game mechanic. It isn’t treating players equally to say it is okay that this is happening because players are having fun and some other players aren’t. That essentially says the happiness of one group outweighs the happiness of the other. If one group is unhappy that isn’t right if everyone is truly equal. That is one of the beautiful things about video games we are all, at base, equal to each other.

For the second point even if they have done this in the past it doesn’t make it right. As I said my bigger issue is the lack of design insight for the event. If those other events aren’t optional that is poorly executed, in my opinion, as well. Players should have the freedom of choice in how they experience their game. Something shouldn’t hinder you ability to happily use the product. This would all be hilarious and I would find it even more funny if it was just optional!

As for the connections to tragedy, my bigger issue is just that ANet should have foreseen that something like this could happen and they could have avoided it! They just made a huge mistake ignoring something that could effect their public appearance.

Thanks for commenting and reading I appreciate it

msalakka.4653:

Whenever someone prefaces their MMO forum rant with some indication of actual professional expertise or experience in game design, I always picture an unemployed guy who made a Final Fantasy rip-off with RPGMaker 2000 that none of his friends actually bothered to play through.

Not really sure how this is constructive. If you don’t agree you don’t need to post or read what I say. The fact is your comment is just full of hate and has no point of view to make it relevant. You’re just making yourself look childish. Give me a comment with something constructive and I will 100% listen to what you have to say. Otherwise go hate somewhere else please.

nothing.7941:

This was just horrible. It made playing not fun, and it felt like anet laughing at its kitten customers. You ppl should fire whoever thought of this. Not funny stupid kitten, but also not fun.

100% with you on that! Thanks for reading and commenting

Tylak.9163:

I probably would have never logged into forums except I wanted to find out what was going on and why I couldn’t enjoy the game tonight. Definitely don’t enjoy complaining (I’d rather be playing).

100% with you on this. I hate arguments and complaining. I just think this was a silly idea and I’m giving my opinion.

JustTrogdor.7892:

All these threads complaining about the 1 day April Fools joke are flooding the forum for no good reason aside from the fact that people just like to complain. It is rather sad that such people use real world tragedies to try to make their distaste for the April Fools graphics more valid. If you won’t lock the forum down then please start merging the topics.

I think it is insensitive and wrong for you to think people shouldn’t have freedom of speech. If people want to come here and complain they are allowed to. They can create as many threads as they want with their own unique views and ideas and if ANet wants to merge they can. Just because people are voicing their opinions doesn’t mean they hate the game they are just giving opinions. The fact is they aren’t using this tragedy for this reason, people who were effected by the tragedy have spoken out about it and are upset, so it has actually offended people. Also the bigger issue here is just a lack of judgement on so many levels from a major company.

Bathos.6341:

Potentially offensive, lame, poorly executed, lacking in imagination, effort or charm. I wish anet had just stuck to a frikking fake trailer or something because THIS is pure crap. I’ve seen indi games on steam make a better effort.

I agree very poorly executed. I just hope they handle it and don’t do something so foolish again in the future! Thanks for reading and commenting

Selkirk.4218:

@Dragon
I had a lot of the same thoughts/feelings when i found out about the ‘joke’ (it really isn’t a joke as jokes have punchlines…more like a mean spirited prank i guess).

Anet does do a number of things right with the game which is why so many are so upset with how the ‘prank’ was implemented. A toggle switch or opt in on this was the only right way to make it work. I mean why would they put something in that is this gamechanging and make it mandatory?

But smart people make mistakes sometimes. The mature and honest thing to do is for anet to apologize or at the very least acknowledge that they have upset a number of players. The forums are seriously toxic right now. It’s making me a bit ill reading some of the threads.

I think an apology would go a long way with most fans. Despite our complaints we actually like the developers.

I totally agree! Like I said I love Anet and GW2 too much to let them get away with doing something so shortsighted. I would 100% respect it if they just apologized, learned from their mistake, and fixed it. It shows great strength to admit mistakes but we love and admire people who have that ability! Thanks for reading and commenting

Arahzor.1832:

I play as an asura, I run around in a circle shouting “vrooooom”. It’s brilliant, if it’s poorly made or anything I don’t care about, better then nothing and it will only last a day

Understandable but for some people today may have been their only day to play and they have no choice but to experience this! They will be very upset if they can’t enjoy something that brings them happiness! Thanks for reading and commenting

Vinegaroon.4369:

To take my control of my character away is a poor decision. We should be playing jokes on each other, in game. But this is Anet playing a joke on the customers. My characters don’t swing their weapons properly and it looks super buggy. I don’t see the value added to the game with this event.

I agree. It just isn’t right to take away a players ability to play the way they want to. These games are about being who you want to be and it isn’t right to take that away from players in any way. Thanks for reading and commenting

lukejoe.1592:

Very well written post that I appreciate OP. I’m not a game designer, I’m an MBA with a background in communications.

And yes, they should have known better. “Ugly Betty” knows better for crying out loud.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_Girl

And yes, considering that you will most likely be warned that you are going to a link that’s outside of their domain if you try to click that to get to Wikipedia, we can conclude that Anet DOES KNOW BETTER.

So it’s pretty super confusing that they did it anyway.

Thanks for reading I totally agree I don’t know why they would go ahead knowing full well what could potentially happen. I still love ANet just confused at their decision that is all. Thanks for commenting and reading

Ferguson.2157:

My point is that credentials matter not one iota – opinions are like (you know what) – everyone has one. Hopefully every players opinion is as valid as the next. lol. That is all.

You are totally right! I’m not saying I am better than anyone else I am just saying where my perspective comes from and that I can understand how these things are created! But since I don’t create content for this game I am no better than anyone else! Thanks for commenting

Cazamar.7148:

Game designer. And i am the prince of Wakanda.

Read response to previous comment

Ferguson.2157:

I’m a game designer too (or am I posing) and I thing it’s wonderful what they have done!

(I’m glad I clarified my qualifications in order to comment i a way that will show my opinion is superior to other, unqualified posters. I may be a game designer, a wonderful dresser, and an all around nice guy, really I may be, and I have certificates to prove it!)

Yes I thought about this point you are making and I realized I would rather not give my personal credentials out just to prove who I am seeing how this is just a post on a forum for an event that occurred in a game. Just giving my opinion, if you want to believe me or not that is entirely your decision. Thanks for responding

RoseofGilead.8907:

No, it really wasn’t a bad idea.

I would love it if you could expand on why you think it wasn’t. Just want to hear peoples opinions

You all realize you don’t have to read what I say right? You could just ignore it if you have nothing constructive to say or don’t agree with it.

Dante.1763:

I found it funny for the first 10 minutes… but i agree about the plane crash, Oh and the crucifixions. Those too. Have you people never seen KIDS play pretend to be an airplane, they do the exact same thing, does it offend you then?

The difference here is that a company did this knowingly. They have the resources to research what is going on in the world. Regardless of if people found it offensive they should have realized it might cause an issue. It just makes them look kind of silly.

Hey guys. So I just want to group my thoughts here as a game designer myself and if you want to post your opinions please do. Just remember this is my opinion from my personal perspective.

The first point I want to address is the execution of the joke mechanic in the game. Since I am a game designer I think this is more relevant to my area of expertise rather then how insensitive the joke might be.

This joke mechanic is incredibly poorly executed. It should be pretty self-explanatory for any game developer that you should 100% NEVER force your players to engage in something that is a temporary event, specifically for a holiday, unless they want to. To force players into something that isn’t part of the core game experience that can effect their overall game-play experience is just wrong, This does nothing but leave a portion of your player base disgruntled and not playing your game, which is exactly what you don’t want with any game! If people want to use it great! But it should never be forced. This specific mechanic actually effects an entire group of players, Role-Players. If someone comes home from working all day just to enjoy the game from a Role-Playing perspective they cannot do that because of this mechanic. It takes away from their immersion, which is a major part of the game experience for those players. It is never okay to hinder or deny an entire group of players from enjoying the game the way they want to, even if they are in the minority!

Now to the second topic. While the joke may have been completely innocent, ArenaNet should have looked into public events and changed what they were doing or had nothing at all.

This a major company with enough resources to, at the very least, read the daily news on their smart phones. Someone had to have known what happened recently and they should have stopped this before it happened. For people out there saying this was planned in advance, that may be the case but I know for a fact this effect in game is not hard to create and could have easily been stripped and changed to something else very quickly. Even if the other event had been forced on players all day it would have been a preferable option than what they have in-game now. The fact that the effect is in effect all day is almost forcing people to observe a potentially very offensive joke, and essentially shoves it in their face. This just furthers the negative effect of this entire event.

I have to say I love GW2 and I think ArenaNet is great! But as a fan I have to tell them when I think they have done wrong, simply because I respect them too much to let them get away with something so poorly executed. This was a poor decision guys, on several levels, please fix it so we can all enjoy the game we love! Also I think it would be very big of you, and really appropriate, if you issued just a small apology for the whole thing.

Please feel free to leave comments I would love to know what you guys think! I love you Arena Net! Please fix and let us all get back to the game we love!