Showing Posts For Enzomiles.6197:
The form doesn’t have the complaint of changing the end game from horizontal to vertical progression.
What I don’t understand about the OP is why do you take people so serious who take the game so serious? Complaining about people complaining is kind of ironic.
Why care what other people complain about? Life is too short right? Foodies complaining about McDonald’s food. Star Wars fans get upset about Han Solo not shooting fist. It just means that they care enough to complain.
The day that no one complains on these forums is the day that this game is dead because it will mean that no one cares anymore.
I disagree, I actually think its quite the opposite, they’re trying to make a game with something for everyone!
We actually agree, they are trying to make the game for everyone. Hospital food is also made for everyone and that stuff is delicious. You know what else everyone likes? Pandas!!! Who doesn’t like pandas. In the next update they should add pandas. They can call is Pandas in the Mist. Now that would get me playing again.
Yet ‘easy and functional’ do not describe an MMO with top end gear that is only available in dungeons yet has no dungeon finder.
I assume we don’t have one because that would make things too easy and functional, thus speeding up the process of content consumption?
I wish I could find a way to work in the MMO industry so I could learn why they make the decisions they do. They never come right out and tell us.
I think that those examples are tactical errors that will be fixed but that the overall strategy is still valid ….
The first step is people who care making a product for people who care.
The second step is people who care making a product for people who don’t care.
And the third step, so difficult to avoid, is that the growing organization starts hiring people, not necessarily people who care, to grow their ever-industrializing company. And since they are servicing customers who don’t care, those employees who don’t care can get away with it (for a while).
So here is my theory about what Arenanet is doing. They built their game around focusing on the wants of a specific player base. Now that the game has gained steam they are now moving away from those niche gamers so they can focus on the larger mass market. Most people just don’t care about the changes and they are now making the game for these players. Here is an explanation of what I am trying to say…
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2012/12/the-cycle-of-customers-who-care.html
Here is the money quote,
“Until soon, the product or service is used by people who don’t care so much about the original intent, they just want something easy and functional and available and cheap.”
Players acting this way is the new norm because vertical progression has changed the incentives. When you’re racing to the top there is an incentive to be a jerk. Being a jerk will make those slowing your progress down to get out of the way. Acting like an kitten also signals to other players that you’re leet because others will put up with your behavior because they want to progress as well. Welcome to the new Tyria.
Galen Grey,
This is not a “witch hunt” and stop blaming the victim for a legitimate complaint.
Lets say that wow was like a car. For years I had a car but then wanted something different so I turn in the car and buy a truck (which is like GW2). So after three months I look in the garage and the dealer took away the truck and replaced it with a El Camino (new GW2). Now you can play lawyer all day and play with the definition and say that I still have a truck but it’s not what I originally wanted or bought.
And yes Anet has a right to change the game any way they see fit but the feelings and actions of those who feel misled on these forms are also legitimate.
When I played wow, I sometimes went on Blizzard’s forms and they were a cesspool. I would actually feel dirty after reading some of the things that people posted. It was a place of free thought though and I respected Blizzard for not censoring people’s criticism of their games. I honestly think that their forums played a part in their success because there was a connection there. To me constructive criticism is a subjective/relative term and companies should be strong enough to hear any criticism, constructive or not, that a customer has even if it’s crap which most of it probably is.
I was at first a little annoyed with this but I don’t think there was intent of it being a backhanded slap to any fan group. So I’m not upset with it. I think it is probably missing the two simple words, “we have found that [some of] our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” No problem in that. It’s just a signal made by GW2 to players that left because they wanted a different style of endgame to come back so that they could have their ego waxed.
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Galen Grey,
You’re probably right about how much the stats are minor. But that is looking at it rationally. Games are fundamentally emotional not rational. I personally just don’t feel complete until I have max gear and am not free to play around until I have it. Call it my own personal insecurities but I think it’s just part of human nature.
Galen Grey,
Ascended gear messes with the psychology of the game. The motivation for things becomes external as opposed to internally motivated. People are doing things for the best gear and that changes the mindset of players. Tunnel vision sets in as people chase after the carrot. It changes the whole dynamic of the game in my opinion. At least it does for me.
Fuz.5621:
Galen Grey.4709:
Page 2, 31st post from the top of this thread.
Already explained to you in detail how no its still not the same MMO.
And you’re wrong.
care to be a bit more specific?
I mentioned the 5 main things that sets Gw2 aside from other MMOs and how ascended armor doesnt change any of them! you think they’re all wrong?
Ascended armor made Dynamic events less imerssive?
Ascended armor made reaching max level take longer?
Is there any content at all I cant play without having Ascended armor?
will I get destroyed in sPvP without Ascended armor?
will I get destroyed in WvW without Ascended armor?
I think the OP is correct in that they will make it easier to get ascended gear over time. But here is the problem. The people that finally get the gear will feel like it is sloppy seconds. The people that worked so hard to get the gear will have disdain for the people that got it easier and view it as “welfare epics.” There will be animosity between the two groups. They will call each other names like care bears and content locusts. The cycle will repeat for each new slot of gear that is slowly released. No thanks, been there, done that. Might as well go play a panda if I wanted to live this cycle.
There is a future for GW2 and it will be a success. There are many people who like the changes. It’s just not why I bought the game.
(edited by Enzomiles.6197)
I keep saying this to the treadmill care bears get over it. The number of the population who is whining about this is far too low. And majority of the people whining are just being lazy. Had you whined if it was already in the game from the star? This is a mmorpg it evolves remember that in the manifesto? EVER evolving meaning your going to get stronger and need better items.
You can’t side grade that or horizontal it. What did you really want us running around for a year pushing to get skin pallettes. Do you really think that is going to hold a population. If you really did think that work you got some good weed your smoking. Give it a rest with these post because I’m sure they don’t care if care bears leave. And I still don’t see any official sites claiming doomsday. Not a podcast not a blog not mmorpg.com mmosite massively. No where and they are the commercial dollars you whining here means about 2 pennies thrown down the street.
Just being honest with you guys just stop it had to be done get over it or play a ps3/xbox game that ends. A mmorpg will always evolve and have a gear goal. I lol that you guys expected a community to do mad king like events every month. And just change the look of your gear. You couldn’t possibly be that silly and think that lol……O……M…..G
O.M.G….you golf players still play when you don’t get a gear advantage when you win a tournament. How can you still play?
O.M.G….you chess players are such care bears. You mean you don’t level up your kings when you win. Noobs
O.M.G…. NASCA drivers. So kitten lazy that you don’t get better cars when you win. What is wrong with you driving around with welfare engines. Scrubs
O.M.G…. you football players. What do you mean you don’t get to use steroids when you win the super bowl. Inconceivable
Just because you have been conditioned by other games to think in a certain way doesn’t mean that there are no other possibilities. And just to be honest. Ascended gear are just pixels that are not really a progression because the new content will be tuned to that level right? It’s just an illusion of progress. LOL
My response to this type of post is here…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Haggling-Over-the-Price/first#post842250
I see a lot of posts on how big the difference will be between exotice and ascended gear stats. I’ve seen 10%, 20%, all the way up to 40%. I have no cluse what the real answer is but it reminds me of this joke.
A man asks a woman if she would be willing to sleep with him if he pays her an exorbitant sum. She replies affirmatively. He then names a paltry amount and asks if she would still be willing to sleep with him for the revised fee. The woman is greatly offended and replies as follows:
She: What kind of woman do you think I am?
He: We’ve already established that. Now we’re just haggling over the price.
I had a post that was deleted by a moderator because it wasn’t constructive yesterday. Sure, I can post something that is more PC and less emotional but here is the problem. Part of my constructive feedback is that I’m not just upset but I am pissed and betrayed by the changes.
So when I say that this is my playing experience with Arenanet in the last week
I say it because it’s true. Its how I feel. Video games are about emotions. It is constructive for Arenanet to know exactly how I feel as a fan. Is it overly dramatic? Yes. Is it irrational? Yes. Is it stupid to get this emotionally involved over a video game? Yes. Will people be laughing at me because it so over the top. Yes But it is how I feel and Arenanet needs to know.
And no this is not a post about Mel Gibson.
My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?
The term “slippery slope” comes to mind. Many players here have years of MMO playing experience and they can smell rats from a distance. And they are sounding a warning.
Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy. Congratulations for losing your debate.
Slippery slope is not always a fallacy but it can be. We don’t have the information to know for sure. But once you start adding tiers it’s going to be hard to stop and your going to piss people off who now expect the treadmill.
In the old GW2 legendaries were insanely hard to get but only a cosmetic difference and this fit with the philosophy of the game. It was radical and made a huge statement about what this game is about. When they changed this they opened pandoras box and made the statement that they weren’t about this philosophy anymore. Now, I could be wrong but it’s not likely.
There is a hook to the progressive gear mentality that is easy to profit from and they do have to make a profit to survive. This style has worked really well for a lot of companies in the past and so I think that is why they are trying it. I think their rationale is to try to split the difference between the two styles to make both sides happy and what they are going to do is make a lukewarm game that satisfies no one. They will figure it out but it may be too late by that time. Its really easy to lose the trust with the original fan base because what they are doing is a betrayal.
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So nope dont feel at all like the game has suddenly changed into a tradational MMO its still entirely viable to play any content with any armor you like!
To me they are just trying to provide content to diverse groups. The ascended gear are intended for people who found exotics too easy to get and legendaries too hard to get. The FotM dungeon is intended for people who want some form of progression. Ignoring all of that will not penalize you in any way really!
The evidence you giving is based on the old GW2. The consequences of the changes have not been fully implemented yet. It will feel different when a team of people have all ascended gear and legendary weapon and your team doesn’t. Let me ask you a question. When will it be enough for these people “who want some form of progression”? You think they will be satisfied after they reach full ascended gear and legendary?
My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?
And it only took them 3 months. Once they head in this direction do you really think they will be able to stop?
From my perspective, the style of World of Warcraft is kind of like the minor leagues of gaming. There is a lot of competition and everyone is competing to be the best. The pinnacle is to get to the big leagues which is raiding. It’s content that not everyone will see or be a part of and only the best of the best get there and the best rewards goes to those who get there. I played wow for years and was burned out and treated poorly by other players because I didn’t have what it takes to get there. This style fits for some people, and I understand the appeal, it’s just not for me.
The style of Guild Wars is more like the movie Sandlot. You play hard but no one is keeping score and stats don’t matter much. Everyone gets their time at bat and you play not to reach some goal but just because it’s fun. Guild wars had this niche and a lot of people got this game because it wasn’t like wow and it felt like home to me.
But things are changing to try to cater to a bigger audience but it’s a huge mistake because it’s not possible to make both styles happy. GW2 is moving towards wow light and GW2 is going to be second rate because wow does this style better. There is going to be those that want the wow style of always progressing and reaching for the next best thing so that they can be the best and be a step above everyone else. Once they reach the top it will not be enough because sooner or later it will not be exclusive enough. Those that don’t play the rat race will be left behind sitting the bench. You already split the community and whatever you decide to do now…it will not end well.
I don’t have ascended gear but I have a prediction. They will come out with an easier way to get them. People who did the work to get them will be pissed about it and will have disdain for the people who got it easier. Terms like welfare epics will be used. I can already feel the love.
you are not missing anything bud. Trust me when i type this out that anet will eventualy make the new gear be sold at vendors once the 3rd new teir comes out. Just like any other mmo does.
You’re spinning your wheels over nothing.
Ya, sooner or later you will get your sloppy seconds
Arenanet you basically set things up to split the community between the haves and have nots. I played wow for years and was always behind the curve and was a member of the have nots. I changed to Guild Wars because there wasn’t a rat race and there wasn’t an elitist jerk culture. Your community has been awesome but it’s not going to last. I was even talking friends into playing your game and explaining that they were not behind even 3 months after release because there wasn’t an endless treadmill. I’m glad this happened before Christmas so I can tell them never mind.