Guild Wars 2

flog.3485:

Faeyas.2816:

flog.3485:

Honestly I think there is too much nostalgia going on here.

Bringing back the Marionnette fight is not necessary because we already have better metas than Marionnette. These are called Silverwaste and all other HoT metas.

The thing is, we can have a fight that are reminiscent of Marionnette mechanics without bringing back the event. And this event will be far more superior than Marionnette for the simple fact that it will last longer than two weeks.

You think the fight might have been good, fun and somewhat challenging but I think people just have rose-tinted glasses. It felt that way simply because the players didn’t have the time to find the most optimal ways of running it with success.

With all due respect, the vine wraith fight is a pale comparison to the brilliance that was the Marionette. My glasses are not that rosey. I have gone over the fight with other commanders of the Marionette fight and we pretty much agree that VW was disappointing compared.

I also do watch the old videos of the fight regularly and am very familiar with it as I also commanded it.

We also know how to beat it, but that alone doesn’t mean we can win.

The optimal way to beat it is for every player to know the mechanics of what is essentially 5 dungeon bosses, or at least enough to beat the platform boss. We know which classes/skills do best at which boss.

However, all it takes is 5 players in the fight to wipe and the fight is put at risk of failing. That is 1 party. The risk grows each time that happens. Heck, they don’t even need to wipe. They can just not kill their boss in time.

That isn’t a margin of error that is expressed in any other world boss. This is remarkably similar to the demands required of raiding (but not as intense). It is all about position and mechanics knowledge with high risk and high reward coordination.

That is why we all love it.

But yes, as with all bosses, the drive to play it will diminish over time. We don’t play Teq or Triple Trouble with the intensity of the entire community. However those bosses still have decent participation rates. I suspect we will see something similar with Marionette.

Hmm allow me to disagree with you then. Personally I don’t think it is good design to allow a world boss fight to fail because a group of five players failed at their part and I suspect Anet didn’t like that either because in the end, we didn’t see the exact same mechanic be applied in different meta events further down the line.

Let the possibility of failing occur for a larger group of people when it comes to world bosses. It is way more impactful and the people feel much more concerned imo. Failing as a party of five should be targeted at fractals and dungeons to an extent (but we all know it has never been really the case^^)

Watching old videos doesn’t do the trick too. Old videos mean different skill balance with different values in terms of numbers. We are much stronger now so I think the content would need to be tuned way harder in terms of mechanics and generally I don’t think players like too hard events when it comes to PvE (looking back at complaints for gerent meta at release in comparison to now).

Generally speaking I feel like we shoud have strong, threatening mobs with enough life points but not too much of it (HoT mobs is pretty fun in that regard). But the mechanics of actually getting the meta done shouldn’t be so much restrictive.

That is a perfectly fine and well reasoned disagreement. We will need to agree to disagree then

flog.3485:

Honestly I think there is too much nostalgia going on here.

Bringing back the Marionnette fight is not necessary because we already have better metas than Marionnette. These are called Silverwaste and all other HoT metas.

The thing is, we can have a fight that are reminiscent of Marionnette mechanics without bringing back the event. And this event will be far more superior than Marionnette for the simple fact that it will last longer than two weeks.

You think the fight might have been good, fun and somewhat challenging but I think people just have rose-tinted glasses. It felt that way simply because the players didn’t have the time to find the most optimal ways of running it with success.

With all due respect, the vine wraith fight is a pale comparison to the brilliance that was the Marionette. My glasses are not that rosey. I have gone over the fight with other commanders of the Marionette fight and we pretty much agree that VW was disappointing compared.

I also do watch the old videos of the fight regularly and am very familiar with it as I also commanded it.

We also know how to beat it, but that alone doesn’t mean we can win.

The optimal way to beat it is for every player to know the mechanics of what is essentially 5 dungeon bosses, or at least enough to beat the platform boss. We know which classes/skills do best at which boss.

However, all it takes is 5 players in the fight to wipe and the fight is put at risk of failing. That is 1 party. The risk grows each time that happens. Heck, they don’t even need to wipe. They can just not kill their boss in time.

That isn’t a margin of error that is expressed in any other world boss. This is remarkably similar to the demands required of raiding (but not as intense). It is all about position and mechanics knowledge with high risk and high reward coordination.

That is why we all love it.

But yes, as with all bosses, the drive to play it will diminish over time. We don’t play Teq or Triple Trouble with the intensity of the entire community. However those bosses still have decent participation rates. I suspect we will see something similar with Marionette.

Danikat.8537:

I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to it coming back, but I think a lot of the people who keep asking for it would be disappointed.

I think the big difference to the Vinewrath fight isn’t the mechanics involved to fight the boss, it’s that it wasn’t around long enough for that to be familiar. The Vinewrath bosses also have special mechanics which everyone needs to understand and use to beat them and early on that felt like a real challenge. Now almost everyone knows it to the point where they don’t even think about it.

If the Marionette was permanent the exact same thing would happen. It wouldn’t be this special, epic fight, it would just be another world boss.

The primary Mechanic of the 5 groups of 5 players does make this fight less likely be to on auto pilot, which is primarily why a lot of us are asking for it back. Yes, we will get better at it, yes there will be fewer fails as we go along, but the chance of a single platform barely not making it to pass the boss along to the next lane would still keep tensions higher than what you experienced with Vine Wraith.

It would be adding in another high tier boss to central Tyria ala Teq or Shatterer, but with much more personal mechanics that make it hard to hide behind a well organized zerg.

I don’t think people would tire of it as quickly as you think, but I do understand where you are coming from, and if the Devs transform the fight too much they are liable to create the problem you are concerned about. I also trust the Devs know this. So, I remain hopeful.

Donari.5237:

I suggest you remove your first line so this doesn’t get flagged as a petition post.

That said, hmm. I don’t know how hard/easy it would be for them to implement but I note one thing the community likely does not want back and that’s having everyone in the map killed if the event fails, even if they were just exploring. That part would have to go, especially if the best trigger method (imo) is a guild event spawn which would mean a large group was ready. Grief city! They’d also need to rework it a bit so one or two players couldn’t intentionally cause a fail like happened far too often in the event. Maybe allow platform hopping so long as no one platform has more than x living players on it at once?

Anyway I loooooved Marionette and if it could be brought back on the same scale I’d definitely do it just for fun. So long as it isn’t wrecking other players’ fun.

Initial comment heeded, and original post corrected. Thanks!

Yes, if it was reworked as a World Boss there would need to be tweaks so that the entire map didn’t up and die each time it failed. But since the content would need to be worked on, from what the Devs have said, nearly ground up, I don’t think that not including something massive like that would be a hindrance.

Please post below if you agree so that Anet can see the support for this

In today’s Live Stream the person running the stream asked me to make a post for content I want to return. I know you all have basically shushed this idea away and for the most part are not able to allocate resources to any old content ….

But we would really like the Marionette fight back.

This could be done in a few ways:

1. As a Lonar’s Pass World Boss, operated by the Priory for “research” reasons
2. As a guild event spawn (do we remember those?)
3. As a World Boss event made by Taimi’s Hologram software
4. Some people suggest fractals (the OP does not think this is the best solution as the original event was glorious mainly for it’s scale and head count requirement, but the OP would be willing to hear any suggestions for this if it means we get it back)

We know that you know we like this fight, because you have attempted to mimic it in a variety of new “Boss” fights like the Vine Wraith, The Octovine Dragon Stand, Gerent, etc. But we would like the Marionette back regardless.

The Brilliance of the Marionette was not only defending the line, but the division of players once inside the main arena, so that we couldn’t just “Zerg” the main boss at the end.

In Season One, there are a lot of aspects we know will be hard to re-do, but Marionette has such a perfect niche in Lonar’s that is already there, Lonar’s Pass does NOT have a world boss, and this fight was well loved.

A lot of people didn’t play Triple Trouble while Marionette was out, and waited until AFTER you removed Marionette to try (OP was one of these people).

This is a well loved fight and the community would really like it back please and thank you!

I tried the work around and am still getting the error.

So I get your rock and hard place Devs. On one hand you need to acknowledge that visual noise can make it hard to see fight mechanic AOEs and cues. On the other hand, most of what we as players enjoy is seeing the full beauty that is this game. You solve one, you hurt the other.

I get that it may be a difficult solution, and that the coding is likely a nightmare, but please just give us a SLIDER. That way we can decide for ourselves how much “noise” we want. That way those whose computers need less processing, or those who need to see the “tells” better can slide it down, while the rest of us can still enjoy our fireworks.

It’s really the only solution. The “minimal” effects are so faint they might as well be badges, no one can see anything really anymore and so it doesn’t really feel like we are doing anything. Where is the fun in that?

Also. Viva la marionette!

Chronomancer

I thought that I would hate this specialization from when it was explained to us on Points of Interest. I main a Mesmer, and I play a torment shatter build. I was really reluctant to actually try it. Thanks to MMOInks, I actually tried it.

I was happy I enjoyed it. I am scared that’s because it is a smidgen…. strong. I was able to shatter a lot faster, though I noticed (Thank goodness) that the more I tried to rapid burst, the more I was eventually locked out on cool down to dangerous levels. So I do feel that there is a good balance, but again, I’m worried that you will nerf it.

Please don’t. Per my Mobs comments, the strength comes mainly from the fact that Central Tyrian mobs are weaker than Jungle Mobs. In the jungle I felt right I wasn’t OP by any means (I died a lot actually), but in central Tyria I was…. powerful. That’s a game balance thing, not a Chronomancer balance thing.

Dragon Hunter

I made one, I was more excited to play it than Chronomancer initially. I think you have seen this comment before but… it doesn’t live up to its name. The rain of arrows feels… wimpy when we compare it to Ranger’s LB5. The traps are nice, but they feel isolated, and I personally couldn’t see any synergy with current Guardian builds. Then again, I don’t play my guardian much…so take this as you will.

Reaper

I am not as googly as others are about this class. Then again I didn’t really test it as deeply as I wanted. It feels fairly solid from what I have seen. It isn’t as OP as I was worried it might have been. The shroud is fun, and thank goodness it is just fun, and not a “Reaper shroud or bust” type situation. I enjoy that I feel as powerful in Reaper shroud as I do in normal shroud…. but in different ways. I look forward to playing with shouts next session.

Revenant

It no longer feels and acts wimpy. YAY. With the swords and the assassins stance I feel that more synergy among the different legends exists and that there is more build diversity…. although it could seriously be better. Sword/Axe and Sword/Sword play uniquely enough that it gives the class a good DPS feel, to go along with the good Tank and Heal specs it already has.

Tempest

I love tempest. Please read those words to “Wash the pain away” of hearing people upset about warhorn. I am GLAD warhorn is a viable weapon. I was even earning kill achievements using it! I feel the elements have strong use distinctions, and are all equally strong in Tempest.

Tempest is strong but fragile, so the earth and water attunments really matter it feels, and Fire is SO MUCH fun to just stack and burn enemies.

I feel like I’m a force of nature, but not a mini god. Good job!

THANKS

Thank you interested people and GW2 staff for reading the following. I will try to keep it short and relevant:

New Map

For 1/4 of a map it feels like a solid map. There is a lot going on, I like the cycles and the complexity of the terrain. That being said, some events were confusing. I understand there were a fair number of bugs breaking them, but some were… not explained well in the toggles.

Take for example the south vine event. It has two sides. One side, where the mortars are, is fairly easy to get to, but does nothing for the event if nothing is happening on the other side. The side of the vine which is an area control event is harder to get to, which is nice, but since it isn’t marked well, most people didn’t realize it existed and assumed the event broke. Additionally the instructions are not very clear, and the icons do not mark it well. This means it isn’t something players stumble upon regularly enough to be discovered… making the event confusing.

Old and new maps

I am going to say that I adore the map achievement prizes. The ones you earn at the end of each map event that go up the more you do? Love and all the props.

Mobs

Mob balancing is way off. I went adventuring with friends in Central Tyria, the Jungle, dungeons, and Fractals.

The Jungle and Fractals seem to be pretty equally balanced at the 30-40 fractal scale with appropriate AR. Meaning the Mobs felt as powerful as they should to a new specialization (I used the tempest in fractals), and didn’t feel any weaker than the jungle mobs with the same ranks, or weaker than when I play on my lvl 80 Mesmer of similar AR.

That is not the case for Central Tyria or Dungeons. Mobs in these locations felt significantly under-powered compared to the new builds and current classes.

My group played CoF with 2 revenants 2 tempests and 1 chronomancer (me). We melted Story, Path 1 and Path 2. We ran all three faster than we ever have before. We blatantly broke strategic conventions: not skipping junk mobs but instead trying to lengthen play by doing them, Avoiding planning, or tactical positioning for longevity because… we were just that powerful… it honestly didn’t matter.

Mind, its not a very drastic change in power. We did die from time to time when we occasionally yolo’d. So certainly not broken but noticeable.

Skill Content

The Adventures were fun, some were exceptionally (in a good way) challenging. The mastery points were just so barely out of reach to make them annoying (in a good way). I felt like I had things I could work towards and climb to. That’s ultimately what you want to replace leveling and I thought this was enjoyable. I cant wait for the release for other equally thoughtful content.

CONT below

I just recently finished “forging the pact” on my theif (like, less than a week ago) , and it started her immediately on the battle. I thought this was supposed to be fixed now? Help!

So here are a list of my thoughts to get everyone on the same page:

1) Marionette was, by far, some of the best content we got during season one of the living world. Everyone I have talked to agrees to this which means that chances are it’s widely popular.
2) Season One was not permanent content which is all the((((
3) Season Two content will be re-playable, but in a way that makes me suspect that it is all instances eg. 1-5 players.
4) Marionette is a map lvl event.
5) Asking for Marionette again in season two may result in a smaller and sadder experience.
6) Guilds are able to face Teq and Triple with influence. D
7) Teq and Triple are both map level boss fights.
8) Marionette could spawn with that mechanic!!

To put it in a more cohesive set of thoughts…

Since Marionette was and is still very popular as content, the Devs may want to consider bringing it back as guild specific re-playable content. Guilds can purchase it to unlock it (maybe via gems who knows) and then spend influence to spawn it.

It would be playing off your new “revisit the past” and replay content that you are bringing in with season two. It would also actually give people hope that some season two content will be in world raid styles still by using the guild mega event spawn. Also it would give the players something unexpected and like a present in the form of your new content structure, meaning that it would add to the positive experience for many players.

You wouldn’t need to find a place for it on your timer, you can leave your blank space for new content I suspect you left it blank for. It would be a guild only spawn-able mega boss, which would add prestige to that guild ability opposed to it being a minor convenience thing (Oh we don’t want to wait for natural spawn).

Also its so popular I’m willing to bet you can make a small profit off of doing this.

For clarification: I am being selfish here, I want this content back because I well and truly enjoyed it. Unlike many bosses we have atm it wasn’t too hard in the punishing way, or too simple. It required strategy, and a variety of skill play to be able to complete. It wasn’t “zerk or die”, it was “Know your lane”.

You also already have the map carved out for her, why on earth should you waste that?

Thanks and I am hopeful!

So we all know that Scarlet’s alliances are all well and good. Toxic roam in Gendarren and Kessex, and the Aetherblade path in TA and the jumping puzzle are both still alive and good…and I’m sure molten is somewhere….

So with the popularity of the Marionette event… can the aetherblades like… find… and then terrorize us with it again in Lonars?

Permanently?

It would be the best mega boss. <3

Thanks!

A 26 (as of this post) page thread on mega servers feedback https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-MegaServer/page/26#post3952066
A 18 (as of this post) page thread on the effects of mega servers on one of the largest niche communities in this game https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Megaservers-and-RP
In case anyone thought this was the only substantial thread on the issue.

I discovered three significant opinions about this mega server business….one: a fair number of players liked it or were willing to go with it before all of the maps changed….two: most of those advocates hated or started to oppose it after we lost all of the maps… three: the stronger the community and the more important that community is to a player or community, the more unhappy they are with the megaservers in general.

Therefore I think that ultimately anet would benefit from studying nations and what makes a nation a nation, and how that relates to our server communities. I believe understanding this will help you see how many of these complaints about the mega servers are really all the same.
Basically what you did was create an artificial diaspora fot all of your players to muddle and suffer through. This isn’t because mega servers are flawed…no….it is because you did it wrong.

We have lost the ability to find, communicate with, and interact with general people from our servers outside of wvw. It is like you took a pool and dumped all of our coloured buckets into it. Yet somehow you expect us to maintain our colour because we were dumped in the same area.

Not that your intentions were bad, but you have left our servers with no identity, and in some cases a cultural crisis. You need to fix this or even wvw will suffer in the long term.

We build community and identity a and relationships in pve because we have time to. Wvw is solely for battle. We train in pve, we organize in pve, we recruit in pve for wvw. We create culture, events, and community in pve. We can’t do that now because we don’t know if our server is in our map, or if our enemy servers are in our map. We can’t communicate with only our server, we have no means of organizing server wide events because all it takes is a wp change and anyone can suddenly be serverless.

This does not mean abandon the idea entirely…just give us a point of reference….a Home base…maybe the cities don’t have to be mega…no events or battles happen in them outside of instances anyway…further cities have historically been where events and organization occurs for all the servers.

If cities were left server exclusive, servers could then maintain their ability to organize, communicate, and be communities with unique identities as each server defines itself, While still creating fuller maps out in the world.

Also…other note…. you should probably fix the bosses…wping should not change boss status because you randomly changed meta maps….that’s just broken. Also guilds should be able to do missions without being randomly seperated.

anzenketh.3759:

Vyndieco.6187:

The other day I was in a group with m friends. Same guild, same server, same group, and we didn’t even appear on the same map ? How ? Why ? Why does anet keeps knocking down their own game ? Finding temples to get dragonite is now absolute hell. You have to keep checking every 15mins if there’s one active. I’m not even gonna talk about how much guild events are kittened up.

Why is it like this ? Is there something I don’t see in this megaserver thing ? Because for now what I see is an absolute fail that led alot of my friends to start thinking about quitting.

Are you aware that if you are in a party that you can right click on your friends portrait and click on Join in.

What server are you on?
What map were you going too?

My Advise on temples is play the other events in the area and keep checking the map to see if the temple is contested.

Joining on a party member doesn’t always work when the whole party had been moved to full servers. A number of guilds can’t do GMs because they can’t successfully get everyone on the same map even with joining.

Snow.2048:

Hail and hark!

I am Snow, a warrior from the Mists, who has come bearing grave news pertaining to the stability of the world itself!

There is trouble in the mists, and the different shards of reality are colliding! I have travelled the breadth of the lands, and it is clear. The mist invaders, those evil mockeries of ourselves, are everywhere and claiming everything as their own! These fiends that hesitated no moment to slit the throats of good men now take the guise of warriors that seek justice in the world. But be not fooled, fellow warriors, for these demons will still murder yourself eagerly if not for what meager security our numbers and presence of the dragon minions provides!

However, there remains hope! We must use the very nature of this strange occurrence against it! Unite under one banner for but a brief moment, demons and men alike, to cast the shards apart, and restore the uniqueness of each shard of reality, so that every man knows man and every beast knows beast!
If we do not do this, the Mist War itself will spread to the world, not in its form of glorious combat, but in the form of treacherous poisons and foul play. If this were to be allowed to happen, I see no end to the madness and misery. If you, brave warrior, thought that the controlled war was terrifying, then wait until the day comes when the war spreads to every inch of the land!

We must cast this evil back into the pit from whence it came. And we must do this, together!

Do this unthinkable deed once, and we can return to blissfully murdering each other without it having morale repercussions, and no longer need fear that our fellows in arms are actually snakes from another realm!

Huzzah!

I discovered three significant opinions about this mega server business….one: a fair number of players liked it out were willing to go with it before all of the maps changed….two: most of those advocates hated or started to oppose it after we lost all of the maps… three: the stronger the community and the more important that community is to a player or community, the more unhappy they are with the megaservers in general.

Therefore I think that ultimately anet would benefit from studying nations and what makes a nation a nation, and how that relates to our server communities. I believe understanding this will help you see how many of these complaints about the mega servers are really all the same.

Basically what you did was create an artificial diaspora fot all of your players to muddle and suffer through. This isn’t because mega servers are flawed…no….it is because you did it wrong.

We have lost the ability to find, communicate with, and interact with general people from our servers outside of wvw. It is like you took a pool and dumped all of our coloured buckets into it. Yet somehow you expect us to maintain our colour because we were dumped in the same area.

Not that your intentions were bad, but you have left our servers with no identity, and in some cases a cultural crisis. You need to fix this or even wvw will suffer in the long term.

We build community and identity a and relationships in pve because we have time to. Wvw is solely for battle. We train in pve, we organize in pve, we recruit in pve for wvw. We create culture, events, and community in pve. We can’t do that now because we don’t know if our server is in our map, or if our enemy servers are in our map. We can’t communicate with only our server, we have no means of organizing server wide events because all it takes is a wp change and anyone can suddenly be serverless.

This does not mean abandon the idea entirely…just give us a point of reference….a Home base…maybe the cities don’t have to be mega…no events or battles happen in them outside of instances anyway…further cities have historically been where events and organization occurs for all the servers.

If cities were left server exclusive, servers could then maintain their ability to organize, communicate, and be communities with unique identities as each server defines itself, While still creating fuller maps out in the world.

Also…other note…. you should probably fix the bosses…wping should not change boss status because you randomly changed meta maps….that’s just broken.

The new illusion trait for mesmers does the same damage moving as it does normally according to its text. Since you don’t get dot feedback in the combat feed I can’t tell if it is lying or broken.

My Sylvari’s eyes are also pitch black orbs. They were fine during Halloween and have been messed up since the last patch. I have not altered her since her creation.

My other sylvari is less affected, her eyes are just darker slightly.

What is the status of this issue? I hope it gets fixed soon!