(edited by Felwal.9618)
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If you need to attack something from range and you don’t need aoe then p/p is a lot better. If you need more mobility and aoe then sb could be the better choice
But melee either dagger or staff will outdps pistol and sb by a mile
This has been mentioned time and time again. Thief needs 15 (or 18) initiatives base, low Steal cooldown, and Staff without spec’ing DD. Those are only real reason why Trick and DD became mandatory in most cases.
18 init would be way too much baseline, for one, and Trickery will be effectively mandatory so long as ToTC, LA and BT are still used in one trait line with no similar or superior options to any of them in other lines.
Those are only real reason why Trick and DD became mandatory in most cases.
Wat.
You mean the third dodge, amazing cleanse potential on EA or huge additional damage, CV, effectively a second heal from DF, and either an effective immunity to immob/cripple/chill or easily-permanent stealth uptime were not good enough reasons not to take Daredevil?
The only reason to ever drop Daredevil aside from ghost thief is if core trait lines get massively buffed (unlikely), ANet absolutely gores it with aggressive HoT-content nerfs (even more unlikely) or ANet power creeps the next elite spec to the point the thief becomes actually overpowered (also fairly unlikely).
stopped at permanent stealth….
either you haven’t played thief at all or you are just a troll … there is no such thing as permanent stealth.
with d/p you can get a max of 3 stacks stealth (which are ~5s tops because of animation time and so on) after one attack you get a debuff (revealt) which makes you immune to your own stealth. revealt lasts 3s in pve and wvw and 4s in pvp.oh and before you ask no there is also no perma dodge either.
thief requires the most ammount of playerskill to use. thats not what balance is…
all a thief can do is cap/decap a point and looking for a 2v1 or an enemy on max 50% health.a thief should be more like an assassin… a 1v1 class … its kinda dumb to have a thief as useless leg man (english isn’t my 1st language dunno if thats the correct translation tho). everyone can win in a 2v1 or against an opponent with 50% health.
As it is now you can actually 1v1 a lot of classes especially in WvW for example rev is pretty easy to deal with same goes for most necros. As for permanent stealth the o ly thing you need to gain perma stealth is shadow arts you need to take both hidden thief and shadows rejuvenation plus make sure you have blinding powder equipped and there you go perma stealth. it can also be done with bounding dodger and its a bit easier but it can be done without it. Of course if you just try to spam 3 you will stand no chance against pretty much any class.
Edit: I should note that I use escapist absolution and shadow arts so I’m very resistant to conditions that helps a lot against necros
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Well I think we just found the reincarnation of
Adolf…H…i…t…l…e…r… :P
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Biggest problem in my eyes is that D/P outshines in most aspects the other weaponsets. Stealth on demand, high burst Dmg, Blinds spam and interrupts. All what u need nowdays.
For me i think slight nerfs/buffs doesn’t bring them in line. There should be some rework done.
Sure but I do not think d/p needs a nerf or rework because it’s not a overpowered weaponset not compared to other classes but all the other thief weaponsets need looking at but a full rework may not be needed just changing the skills a little for example the blind on stealth in SA could be made baseline for CnD that little change would do a lot for the set. And both sword mainhand and shortbow just needs to feel a bit more fluid to use maybe incease the attack speed slightly and reduce aftercast that would help both s/x and sb. P/P is in a decent spot with a lot of burst at least in pvp maybe if we could have ricochet back or some sort of pierce effect on it. Can’t speak much for p/d haven’t played that much. That’s my suggestion atleast
It does run well in WvW at least outside of zergs maybe 100-120 fps. But in zergs maybe 20-40 fps depending on AoE spam and it may spike lower If the zerg is big enough. It’s playable but far from optimal when I can easily run games like battlefield 4 on ultra with over 144fps most of the time. I haven’t tried battlefield one yet so can’t say anything about that. I’m running a i7 6700k and a msi geforce 1070 gaming X.
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for big events or wvw i set to the graphic in pic
have 660 gtx and i7
I can see that you have character limit at low. This is why I consider a new CPU so that I will be able to actually see all the characters.
That will be hard with pretty much any processor gw2 isn’t that well optimised for large fights
Even a x/p thief can counter a pewpew thief all you need is headshot + impacting disruption
are you currently on a lga1151 socket? if yes, then the 6700k is the most powerful cpu you can currently buy.
and no, that cpu is not overkill for gw2. the only thing that matters in this game is single core speed – the latest i7 k models (6700k for lga1151 or 4790k for lga1150) do have plenty of that, with the included ability to overclock them for even more juice.
Yeah but he may want a cheaper CPU depending on his financial state if he is a student or something like that he may want something cheaper. Although that link is a Norwegian one if I’m not mistaken so chanses are he is pretty rich (that oil money you know) :P
My processor is a i7 6700K skylake and that is completely overkill for gw2 so that is defenitely good enough. What gpu do you have?
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Yeah rending shade can steal stacks I tested with a friend he used warrior shield block and I attacked him with quickness so to give him a decent amount of might then I used backstab on him and I got all 14 of his might stacks
Sword needs some buffs to make it more fluid of a set to use.
Stealth attacks need some buffs to make them worth setting up and executing. Stealth stacking should be reduced in order to justify improving the power of stealth attacks.
Decrease the evade access on some weapon sets (D/D and Staff) to make perma-evade skills less possible.
Improve shortbow’s ability to do limited AoE damage. Buff the cluster bomb damage slightly and duration of the poison field.
Add in condition clear on successful Stealth Attack and decrease the condition clear on evade mechanic in Daredevil.
They added a CD to our stealth attacks that’s enough of a justification for giving it a bit more damage for example buff backstab damage by like 5-10% or make it apply a condi like vulnerability and you could also buff something like sword tactical strike make it so that it dazes for longer or make it a full stun from behind. Shortbow needs some tweaking (have you tried firing a shortbow with quickness there is some weird aftercast or whatever you wanna call it) it does not really need a damage buff if they just made it more fluid for example reduce the aftercast and increase the projectile speed of trickshot, clusterbomb and chocking gas. That would be a start at least. And maybe increase the attack speed of CnD
okay guys i just tested rending shade a bit more and its actually really good. Unlike bountiful theft rending shade can actually steal a stack of boons so under the rignt conditions you can steal 25 might from someone i tested this with a friend
Well boonsteal is a counter to the bunker sustain that is so common. Personally, rending shade does a good job of that, even if the damage reduction is somewhat pointless given how commonly most classes just pop out new boons constantly.
I do think that Daredevil needs less condition removal on evade. It is a silly mechanic because in a team fight the Daredevil becomes practically immune to conditions by just evading. Changing it to “on dodge” makes it even more problematic because then the Daredevil doesn’t even need to be in a fight and evade and attack to be successful. Perma dodge thief becomes even more immune to conditions than it already is? Not a good idea for balance.
I would change the condition removal to a five second internal cooldown. Condition builds should not be forced to stop attacking to avoid having all their damage negated 100%. If you fix that then people will not stop attacking and you can clear conditions more. Against players who stop attacking, you should be taking other condition clears than just DD, so just use those. Daredevil is a lazy crutch as far as condition removal is concerned.
Well sure nerfing DD condi clear would be a okay change would help against DB spammers. But I do not really think rending shade does a great job of striping boons it’s a single boon every 3-4 at maximum the damage reduction you get is not that great either because it’s not going to do much. Maybe if SA was improved a little or if preparedness was made baseline then maybe we would see SA being used more. But the first minor in SA is pretty much useless maybe that one could be changed into something else maybe might on gaining stealth (wink wink)
The thief needs some nerfs rolled back but mostly it needs the defensive sustain meta to take an arrow to the knee.
As for play in large and mid-scale WvW, that really isn’t where a thief should excel. What it should be is a 1v1 beast and right now that simply is not the case. It is a high risk class that currently doesn’t excel in 1v1. They have basically made it a small scale pack hunter in WvW.
Yeah the sustain/condi meta we have now is one of the worst ones so far but Anet really need to introduce some way to counter tanks maybe something like armor shred or some kind of armor penetration maybe make backstabb temporarily reduce a enemy’s armor under certain conditions. Something like if you backstab someone under the effects of poison you shred 10% of their armor and if you backstab someone with vulnerability you shred an additional 15% armor. Of course the numbers need to be tweaked so they are balanced but removing some armor/toughness would help a lot it would also make thieves more desirable for pve because you can increase your teams damage. Also having it work with enemies that are vulnerable will also increase the damage of the D/D weaponset because of CnD
Why shouldn merging Thief with Daredevil not happen? its an absolute possibility, because Daredevil is aside from the Staff Weapon just Thief 2.0, which uses the exact same gameplay mechanics, just has baseline 1 Endurance bar more, that should be baseline already a difference of the Thief compared to all other Vanilla Classes to make up for the difference, that Thieves are the most mobile and dodgy class of all – for that shouldn’t you require first an Elite Specialization.
The Dodge Styles are easily moved over to F3 to make them accessoible out of combat to change them quickly on demand, instead of making silly Grandmaster Traits out of them what they shouldn’t be.For DD got Acrobatics basically complete trashed, instead it woudl be better to merge Acrobatics with the stuff they made for DD’s Traitline.
ANet basically has not given the Thief so far a real Elite Specialization, while all other Classes received one.Elite Spes were never to be meant for to be better, than the Base Classes, thats nonsense. The concept behind them is to be optional sidegrades, not upgrades which are required to use to stay viable as a class!!
But naturally ANet totally overpowered mostly all of the first Elite Specs as a matter of marketing in hope, that way will HoT sell itself better, because honestly, would have anybody here bought HoT at all, when in the end the E-Specs would be all “worser”, than the Base Class? I guess not.But I agree with it, that the game lacks Spec Diversity, thats why it would have been better for the whole game, if they wouldn’t have rushed (like always) things to implement and would have waited first with the introduction of Elite Specializations, once:
1) Anet would have fixed first the most important game balance aspects of the combat system (Attributes, Base Health, Boons & Conditions) &
2) they would have designed for the introduction of Elite Specializations via Add On at least 2 different Elite Spec per class to provide from begin on also an alternative for each class.
But by providing per class just only 1 with the expansion, it was from begin on clear, that the E-Specs will come over for the players like neccessary upgrades to stay viable for the Meta Game, instead of being optional sidegrades, that just increase the build diversity of the base class, which are together with the base class and its other E-Spec on an equal power level.
But until we have now the moment, until each class will have like 3+ different E Specs of build diversity alot of time will pass, because I doubt it, that ANet will add with the next expansion directly two new E specs per class now – doing essentially the work, they should have better done directly with the first expansion, so that they would have lesser work from that point on with the next expansions in the future.
I’m not saying that it should not happen I’m just saying that Anet will most likely not merge dd with the base class to be honest they will probably never read this because they never go to the thief forums but we might aswell leave some suggestions
Merging thief with daredevil will definitely not happen right now it looks like Anet wants elite specs to be more powerful than the base class but think about it when we have like 3 elite specs there might be more diversity as long as they don’t kitten it up with more powercreep. But I do definitely think the base weaponsets and traitlines need looking at. Only good one is d/p
Preparedness should definitely become baseline but what should it be replaced with maybe take something from acro? and give acro the old practiced tolerance because converting that 7% precision into vitality is really usefull
But honestly I miss how thief was before July last year it was much better back then and I think they should bring back practiced tolerance the way it was before that was really nice making thief just a tiny bit more survivable and you could run D/D whitout going for some cheesy condi build that you feel bad for playing. reworking some trait lines like shadow arts and crit strikes would help a little.
Can you post your ideas in the balance thread and not make new threads? It is hard to get devs to pay attention if we have 20 threads with 10 posts in each. We need one thread with a lot of ideas and discussion for them to read.
I did not find that thread that’s why I started a new one
What do you think about moving thief from the role of decap and +1 to more of a 1v1 duelist/assassin class by like increasing thief core health and add a bit of extra damage or something but the problem with thief is that if you increase our damage too much all the squishy classes and builds will just get one-shot from stealth I honestly don’t know what the best way to solve this problem is but I think thief maybe needs a bigger rework to the whole class that may also help with the abyssmal build diversity thief has
Add % multiplies that depend on armor for example, that way damage would affect squishies and tanks same way. For example backstab under condition XY ignores 30% of the armor or protection. Or backstab under condition XY is unblockable.
% and working on mechanics would allow to make it balanced. Flat damage number changes like devs love to do much (sup trickery) just create more imbalance and QQ.
Yeah I have seen that suggested before and adding a percentage penetration mechanic to gw2 would be a really good idea in my opinion would help a lot to keep the tank meta at bay because playing in a tank meta like s1 is just simply boring because it takes no reaction or
skill.
Another thing that has been said before is that all other classes except necro has a lot of invuln/block one way to maybe solve that problem is to massively Increase the CD of all invuln/ block traits or just simply replace them with something else.
What do you think about moving thief from the role of decap and +1 to more of a 1v1 duelist/assassin class by like increasing thief core health and add a bit of extra damage or something but the problem with thief is that if you increase our damage too much all the squishy classes and builds will just get one-shot from stealth I honestly don’t know what the best way to solve this problem is but I think thief maybe needs a bigger rework to the whole class that may also help with the abyssmal build diversity thief has
as the topic says what do you guys think needs to be done to make thief more viable for all gamemodes please post your suggestions. it can be prettymuch anything buffs/nerfs to thief, reworks or nerfs/buffs to other classes just keep it civil.
God tier: Dragonhunter, Scrapper, Herald Good tier: Reaper, Chronomancer, Tempest. Viable tier: Druid. Kinda viable: Berserker, Daredevil
I think giving backstab AoE and removing the positional requirement is a bad idea but it defenitely needs a damage buff. Because thief is the most fragile class in the game with little to no group support it should make up for that in damage or something because right now you might aswell play a engineer or revenant but those classes are so boring compared to thief
Overall a great post but you forgot one thing the fact that backstab deals very average damage compared to a lot of other classes abilities for example ALL of scrappers hammer abilities except for the auto attack deals more damage and dragon hunter has a short cd attack like 2sec that hits harder. I think they should up the damage by a bit and maybe give it a little utility if you could get like 8k Crits with it regularly in pvp with a marauder amulet that would be nice since we can only use it every 4sec and we need to line it up too. Sry if my English isn’t the best it’s not my native language
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