Guild Wars 2

It probably won’t happen until GW3.. Too many people hanging onto dinosaur computers, same reason it took OS’s so long. Catering to the weakest link.

So after all this and a taste of salvation yesterday, it turns out that it’s not a vets bonus. It’s a pre-purchase bonus. 6 days of hellfire in the forums and aNet couldn’t even make a proper concession that didn’t go entirely in their favour. Not even a little one.

Not much to say really.

Thank you for making my last 10 years of GW loyalty justified. It’s sometimes rocky, but it shows that you guys are still human. A hard condition to maintain under corporate overlords with a fiscal bottom line, however, one that should be maintained at any cost. As this whole debacle has highlighted terribly clearly.

GG.

Ricky.4706:

from this vet – i actually had my mind set on this expansion for a while – gw2 is pretty much my main game and has been for years…i don’t watch tv lol.

I didn’t want to get excited about it ( though i really did want to get excited because I always have been ) But i did not allow myself to get excited about it because I’ve felt a lot of let downs that started making the game more painful than a moment of relaxation. Example, I’m a pvp’r ….I enjoy specifically wvw – the pvp area seems too knee-jerk reaction for me to consider competitive ….but wvw is just fun running with a zerg, you can hear me singing “Born free” at any given time when rolling with my crew….

but then they brought ascended weapons that you have to grind for to get the best stats FORCING me to pve – I was all wvw ….and the video said “Play as you want” …well I want to play with the best stats / equal to everyone else playing with best stats in wvw. “There’s no grind” – I had to grind to get a grandmaster, then grind to get the mats or money to buy mats to make ascended weapons, and still grinding for about another 15 years to get one character all ascended. Fractals are not play as I want, because I’m tired of waiting 40 hours to put together a team where one person kicks you out for any given reason, that’s stupid and antisocial and I’m here to relax, but anet seemed to have their own agenda and anything I tried to say got flagged on the forum….fine , I just said whatever and now roam the game like some drone trying to find anything fun i can do with random pug groups while farming mats…

join guilds they said, i joined many, all either died or run by some wanna be gawd that wanted to dictate your every gaming moment. The 2 coolest guilds I ever joined are now dead – 2 lists of 450 players each totally grayed out …gone. I stayed in them hoping one day an event ..such as this, that ended up dissing vets, would bring them back. but forget that now….

but i digress…

I look at the upgrade price for hot ….and i’m like whoa 50 bucks ….my boys must need money …hrmmm…….then I see that to get 1 slot ….I need to spend 25 bucks more to get junk i dont use and means nothing to anyone else looking at me ….I’m all about stats not fluff. so my concern is a good account to hold items i use with best stats and mats to make em. not no mini that’s going to stand by me as i die in wvw ….no…just no….

but does my voice matter on the forum, ….no …just no..

so anyways…..I see they are making a campaign for new members …and I’m like …yep …they need money

but wait …..they quietly changes faqs………vets have to spend 25 extra bucks more to get just 1 slot …..the forum is in an uproar and they aren’t saying anything, just quietly shutting down threads ….

suddenly…..i went from feeling like my boys needed funding, to feeling like a lab rat with some alien guys in white coats wondering what my financial pain threshold is …..

so, i’m starting to think, body snatchers here ……this isn’t the team I originally supported….and something suspect is going on……. yeah i like guidwars a lot ….

can i have my original team back please ? i have no idea who these new guys are running the show. yeah your game looks great, just like 50 others do too. What made it all special was the og gw team ….where’d they go ? 50 bucks is a lot of money to pay for bug hunting, and no character slot ….my guys wouldn’t have tried to play me like that …and they knew i was ready to buy anything from the shop in gw1….

my own personal #hotgate conspiracy theory – they’ve been invaded by aliens.

This in so many ways.

Knighthonor.4061:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

The Siege of Thorns continues. What day is it now? 4th? 5th? Don’t let up. They’re going to send a kitten out sooner or later..

That June 23rd trait patch drama will overshadow all this Price drama. Watch…

Straw that broke the camels back?

“Popcorn pre-purchase now available!” (*Box not included on subsequent purchases)

Knighthonor.4061:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

I feel like a prophet. Really I do. I’ve maintained all along that this was nothing more than good marketing with a dash of psychology. Take away what we used to get, give us nothing. End result, community begs for bare minimum. I’ve said it numerous times.
Now here’s the dedicated thread…
What’s worse than being played? Knowing you’re being played and playing anyway.

What you mean by this statement? Explain

It’s simple. In GW1 days, this never happened. They gave us slots. 2 of. They’ve been changing their model gradually since then, to one far less “Giving”. This time around, they’ve pushed it hard. They took away all our slots. Psychology in marketing is a big thing, people are people and can be manipulated, usually quite easily. They knew this. Anyone with a brain would. Take everything away, make us beg for at least something. Not 2, just one. We meet them in the middle of a rough trade that is favourable to them and at best gives us reason to give a sigh of relief. “Thank god they relented and gave us one!”
Most people don’t realise just how big a part of modern marketing strategy that psychology is, but all the information is freely available on google.

What was the old adage? “It is far easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they’ve been fooled.”

The Siege of Thorns continues. What day is it now? 4th? 5th? Don’t let up. They’re going to send a kitten out sooner or later..

I feel like a prophet. Really I do. I’ve maintained all along that this was nothing more than good marketing with a dash of psychology. Take away what we used to get, give us nothing. End result, community begs for bare minimum. I’ve said it numerous times.
Now here’s the dedicated thread…
What’s worse than being played? Knowing you’re being played and playing anyway.

Unfortunately though, this is one of those situations you see in politics where the underdog is offered a choice between stupidity and being called unpatriotic…The only choice is the wrong one.

Now give us our kitten slot. It’ll still taste like exploitation to us, but at least you’ll save some face…And about that mini weasel in the anet cap.. Make it happen. Where’s my coffee?

2 slots as we got with EoTN is obviously out…That’s not what this little operation of theirs is about. They want us begging for just one instead.

Fine.

I want one. And a miniature weasel in an anet cap. It seems….Fitting.

Otokomae.9356:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a4ktf/dont_prepurchase_heart_of_thorns/

Breezed right past 3,000 upvotes almost 12 hours ago… is this seriously going to finish as the most upvoted GW2 subreddit of all time?

It was already the most upvoted in the sub at about this time yesterday. It’s going to take something pretty astounding for it to get topped in a hurry. They made boo-boo big time. Fumble of the year.

mrstealth.6701:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

mrstealth.6701:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

Grav.3568:

AnClar.1304:

While I’m unhappy about the marketing surrounding HoT, I think peeps saying a lack of response from ANet for 3 days equates to ANet doesn’t care is, I think, a bit unrealistic.

Given Anet’s continuing inability to address issues from two years ago, are you really that surprised?

Yep. As I said, it took them 7 years to give us what they said would take 1-2. I’d say, check back in about, oh, a month, 3 perhaps.. A year? It certainly pays not to count with aNets clock…

When did they ever say it would be 1-2 years?

And GW2 didn’t take 7 years, it was 5. They announced it in spring 2007, which was the same time they began work on it. It was released just over 5 years later. And 5 years is a pretty normal time for MMO developement.

As unhappy as I am with the current situation, I’m not going to start spouting off totally inaccurate information to bash them. Use facts for that.

Ok you got me. I was mostly right. You were right about the announcement date, however, GW1 was released in 2005. We waited 7 years for GW2. There was, as I remember plenty of talk about a sequel before the official announcement.
My point still stand that you can’t expect miracles 3 years after release when it took 7 years from GW1 release to release GW2, on almost the exact same engine..

I think it’s obvious that GW2 is a pretty thorough overhaul of that old engine. There are a lot of things possible in it, that were not in GW1’s engine. Looking at other game engines, there is a lot of iteration of the same bases as they shift from v1 to v2, etc.

I think a good example would be Oblivion and Morrowind from the Elder Scrolls series. The games have quite different engines, even though both are the Gamebryo engine. They are just different iterations/versions of the same engine, with very different technical capabilities.

Back to Guild Wars 2.

HoT is still GW2, and isn’t bringing a new engine. There are, as Anet has pointed out already, some technical advancements made in the expansion’s content. But it is still running on the same game client. These are the same types of new tech that we’ve already seen added to to the core game since release. I’m sure anyone that played wvw back in 2012 remembers culling.

And doesn’t it suck the very most, that it’s all going to go largely to waste or be received sourly by many of us who stuck by them for this ten years If they can’t just start talking to us and find resolution in a manner befitting.. Businesslike, where all parties, us and them, come away feeling slightly stung, but mostly not.

mrstealth.6701:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

Grav.3568:

AnClar.1304:

While I’m unhappy about the marketing surrounding HoT, I think peeps saying a lack of response from ANet for 3 days equates to ANet doesn’t care is, I think, a bit unrealistic.

Given Anet’s continuing inability to address issues from two years ago, are you really that surprised?

Yep. As I said, it took them 7 years to give us what they said would take 1-2. I’d say, check back in about, oh, a month, 3 perhaps.. A year? It certainly pays not to count with aNets clock…

When did they ever say it would be 1-2 years?

And GW2 didn’t take 7 years, it was 5. They announced it in spring 2007, which was the same time they began work on it. It was released just over 5 years later. And 5 years is a pretty normal time for MMO developement.

As unhappy as I am with the current situation, I’m not going to start spouting off totally inaccurate information to bash them. Use facts for that.

Ok you got me. I was mostly right. You were right about the announcement date, however, GW1 was released in 2005. We waited 7 years for GW2. There was, as I remember plenty of talk about a sequel before the official announcement.
My point still stands that you can’t expect miracles 3 years after release when it took 7 years from GW1 release to release GW2, on almost the exact same engine..

Fancy that eh..Cruising FB and a notification from DDO pops up. “We hope you’re enjoying the new class!”

Interesting…Research….

Seems they gave us VIP’s, i.e. anyone who’s spent money in any way on DDO, a new class for free. For free.

Seems that a relatively P2P kinda deal like DDO that’s been accused many times of being grabby is still being nicer to its paying customers (not timegated) than aNet is.

Sad. I prefer GW2, but I do like DDO, and if they’re going to be nice to me while aNet prefer distance and silence, well..

Grav.3568:

AnClar.1304:

While I’m unhappy about the marketing surrounding HoT, I think peeps saying a lack of response from ANet for 3 days equates to ANet doesn’t care is, I think, a bit unrealistic.

Given Anet’s continuing inability to address issues from two years ago, are you really that surprised?

Yep. As I said, it took them 7 years to give us what they said would take 1-2. I’d say, check back in about, oh, a month, 3 perhaps.. A year? It certainly pays not to count with aNets clock…

Wolfeng.3784:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

Took 7 years to get GW2.
Everyone seems to forget that while they’re espousing just how much wonder they’ve obviously come up with in merely 3…

I doubt they’ve been working on an expac for a full 3 years. It’s probably closer to a year, msybe a year and a half.

Is it even that?

They said they would launch the specializations when they had something to show. So far only a few have been presented and with doubts, possible changes to them.
Revenant only had a few trait lines, we only got to explore a piece of a map.

For a game that has been in development for “so long” it feels like everything is early work.

Not to forget, originally GW2 was supposed to take a year or 2 tops.. Instead it took 7.

I wonder what is defined as “When it’s ready” this time around?

It’s a good thing they had Blizzards Crusader to copy; Imagine how long it would have taken if they’d designed their own class!

Took 7 years to get GW2.
Everyone seems to forget that while they’re espousing just how much wonder they’ve obviously come up with in merely 3…

Day 4 of the Siege of Thorns eh..

Hi guys and dolls! Did I miss anything. A bunch of people telling us to lay off aNet, the poor buggers need the money and I’ll be giving them my money no matter what I say?

I got a grand in my cupboard that says I won’t touch HoT until this debacle is resolved in a manner I find acceptable. It’s my money. Like they keep saying to anyone who bought gems, “No gun at my head!” kitten straight.

Fix or Fallout. That’s how I see it.

Chista.4750:

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/18/why-guild-wars-2s-prepurchase-deal-has-the-internet-raging/?utm_content=buffer7568f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

It’s not youtube, but it’s still a pretty big place giving this coverage.

That’s coverage, but it bears all the hallmarks of pay for comments…

Don’t laugh at the rock. The rock is no laughing matter. aNet themselves value that rock more than they value GW2. Think about it. GW2 is now effectively free, the rock however costs somewhere in the vicinity of 5 bucks.
aNet put more value on a rock than they put on their own game.

JohnnyS.1460:

Finally some official word from the devs…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZspKoupWAY

JohnnyS. Internet Legend. All around good guy.

I lost it. I lost it bad. It’s all so…SO REAL.

dervix.9126:

funkyazn.9062:

They’re already selling pet rocks! (wtf)

“‘Fun? In MY MMO?’ It’s more likely than you think.”
Seriously, have a little sense of humor. People like the pet rock because it’s funny and it’s goofy. How is the pet rock any different from the other minis?

The intent is obvious. The timing however is very unfortunate. Because of it being put up so close to all this, it looks just as easily like the intent was to say, “This lot are so eager to be fleeced, we could sell ’em a kitten rock…”

All along the Watchtower….

Rhonin Greymane.8752:

A simple point people don’t seem to understand is that the core game inclusion isn’t influencing the price in any way… it’s just something they threw in so new players that missed the previous sales aren’t stuck behind a huge paywall. They just got lucky to get the game at a lower price than others(free of charge in this case) the same way people got it for 75% less during the recent sales but nobody raised any pitchforks then even though they should have, according to the logic the complaining follows. The expansion itself costs 50$, you’d be paying that regardless of core game inclusion. Nobody is forcing you to pay extra for something you already have. Think of it as a 100% discount product you don’t have to put in your basket separately.
As for the pricing itself, $40 to $50 is just standard pricing for MMO expansions. And saying there’s not enough content to justify the price isn’t valid because we don’t know how much content there actually is. Which is where the magic of pre-purchasing kicks in… you don’t have to buy it now if you don’t feel you know enough. Pre-purchasing is an optional gesture of faith from the consumers. The game didn’t release yet. Anet isn’t demanding that we pay for the game now and then releasing it in a week or two from now. The game is several months from being ready. In fact, Anet isn’t demanding anything and people are hatemongering for no real reason. The game isn’t going live with just the things that were revealed up until now, and I don’t know why people are acting like it is. There’s still months of reveals ahead of us. Just stop with the pointless, and frankly baseless anger and hatred.

A re-worded but still broken facsimile of the same tired argument. You’re in the minority that share that opinion. Stockholmers I like to call them.
Don’t tell us how to feel about getting a rough trade for our investment of time and money, and possibly even emotion for the realm. In return I won’t tell you to seek treatment to have your tongue removed from aNets lower cleavage.
Everyone will be that little bit happier.

Another pondering.

IF a player that tied a GW1 account to a GW2 account in the refund window takes the refund and the new account, and the old account is deleted as has been stated, well wait a kitten moment
Would that not also delete the gw1 account tied to that account tied to the GW2 account being deleted? Or would they then leave that super-loyal customer with a GW1 account with GWAMM that could never be tied to another GW2 account, and a GW2 account that would never reflect their dedication via it’s HoM rewards and titles, the way that it should?

To my mind, either is a seriously whack scenario, and just another highlighted question about this whole tangled and vile web of the worst marketing decision aNet ever made…

Scenario #whatever.

Old day 1 GW1 player who got GWAMM but then was called away from ever buying GW2 comes back in aw, I dunno, let’s call it the last 30 days or so. Because they saw all the hype about the exp and it re-ignited their fire for the realm…

Anyway..

They buy a GW2 account, because the FAQ said they had to have it to get the EXP and they link their GW1 account to it, because hey, HoM right? They then notice they’re a bit short on slots and bank space, they were after all a pretty leet GW1 player, they’re not new to this rodeo, just abridged…
SO.
The ninja FAQ thing, the tie-in, they realize they have to lose the account with GWAMM, with the extras, everything.

EVERYTHING

Tell me again that it’s fair. Tell me again that it’s the price they pay. I know that it’s a bit of a scenario, but it’s a big world. There’s a lot of players. Variables.

I guarantee this will or has already happened, probably even to old guildies of mine if I’m not wrong…Bugger. Hadn’t even thought of that.

jacobocaj.7698:

snip
In short, one can’t help but worry that ANET has been being duplicitous for months if not years, and that they don’t seem to care about you much once they have your money.

As I mentioned many posts ago on this thread, we stood on the steps of the Great Temple Of Balthazar when they first introduced the cash store in GW1 and mused on how the stuff was hella overpriced, and that it was setting a dangerous precedent. Even then we were some of us adults, and not stupid or unwise to the ways of marketing and the psychology therein, especially in regard to setting dangerous financial precedents… Back then, the fanboys called us fools. The same fanboys who’re calling us all fools now.
They’re probably right in one aspect. We still support a company who gave us 2 slots free with the standard exp for GW1, but beg to be given one slot in an exp for GW2 that costs the same sort of money, whilst giving new players a copy of core for free..

lukejoe.1592:

Blanche Neige.7241:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

In marketing, what you say is irrelevant.

What matters is what potential customers perceive from what you said.

And clearly, people perceive that they are buying the core game a second time when they buy HoT. You have 3000+ messages posted in the last 24 hours or so in this thread that proves it.

You may say the contrary as much as you want. Your message is not going to pass through.

If you ( meaning Anet) don’t modify your positions, it may hurt you (meaning Anet) a lot in the long term.

Again, gotta chime in here. It’s more than perception.

They did NOT set a price tag and then say, “Oh you know what would be nice…”

That never happened.

They considered potential cash flows from offering the TWO products bundled and unbundled and chose bundled based on math.

If you “Perceive” that you are buying the original game all over again, it’s because, you are! You may not be paying full price for it, but I can assure you, you are paying something to the pot to make it cheaper for new players well maintaining Anet’s total revenue goal.

Or at least that was how it was supposed to work out, but Anet never did seem to get beyond the spreadsheet when making this call…

AND WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKE!

No veteran player should have to “Chip in” to float new players a free copy of vanilla. Didn’t happen with EoTN, shouldn’t happen here.
No veteran player should have to pay retroactively for content “Freely” given between launch and HoT.
No new Player should have to pay retroactively for prior content that they’ll never see without paying for it again. (Living story)
Nobody buying any expansion ever should then have to pay again be it in real money, or time investment to grind for gold>gems>slot.

Would you buy a new car whose seats were a paid optional extra?

dervix.9126:

Najten.2418:

I get that the price of the expansion is €44,99, and that the game is included just to avoid the problems you had with for instance a certain other MMO Whose Name Shall Not Be Named which required you to buy core game + 3 expansions to enjoy the 4th expansion…
But how is this fair to those that actually went out and bought GW2 core, in anticipation of HoT? Those that spent €35ish now spent that for “nothing”?
A bundle offer is great, but there should be an “upgrade only” option for those that don’t need the core game.

It was stated that Support would grant HoT to people who recently purchased the game. Probably within like 2 weeks or so, I’m guessing.

The terms are that they get a refund on their current account(only) and receive a blank slate copy of HoT/GW2.

Deli.1302:

papry.8096:

This is what Anet propose to people that ask for an HoT upgrade when they bought GW2 before the FAQ ninja update.

Wow that is pretty pathetic of Anet.

1)Say that the core game is required to play the expansion
2)New players buy core game in preparation for HoT
3)Anet announces pre-purchase and adds core game in for free, meaning those new players have just wasted money buying the core game
4)Anet ninja changes the faq, but doesn’t change the part of the faq about the price(suspicious)
5)Now new players who bought the core game before are forced to lose all the progress they have made, gems they’ve purchased, and the link they made to their gw1 account if they wanna play HoT

As a vet, I see the newby vets who want a refund and have also in the meantime bought gems as potentially getting shafted the hardest. They are being treated as defaults on a car loan except that even after they’ve made the default stopper payment to get their ride back, anet gives them their car(gw2) back, but keeps any new parts that they bought while they had it(gems).

That’s as kittened as a kitten ever got kittened in the kitten with multiple kittens.

Pifil.5193:

ZanchinFissure.7981:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

TheToxicFox.8710:

DONE! I’m gonna use the $50 towards Fallout 4.

Now why didn’t I think of that myself…? That is a really good idea.

Cuz It’s probably gonna be all hype and no delivery.

… and so will Fallout 4! Badum-tish!

Cold day in hell. Cold day in hell. \m/

Alexxander.8306:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

Day 3 of the Siege of Thorns. Keep at ‘em, they’re weakening!

No loyal veteran customer base should be reduced to groveling for a fair deal. That’s what’s happening here. Instead of just giving us the two slots with standard, just like they did for EoTN, they have everyone begging for just one. Then you have the absolute victims who are doing anything they can to justify their enjoyment of the beating.

Consumerist Stockholm Syndrome.

Then there are the users like me who will happily give the money to Anets competition. Anet love ultimatums, as do I in cases like this, for consumers that will flee to the other great mmos coming out there will be lots of developers happy to take Anets business.

I think they are gravely misjudging the pulling power of Fallout and FF….At the very least..Not MMO’s but amazing franchises with new stuff coming that costs money. The same money they could choose to spend on HoT, but might not because those other franchises, oooooh….

Day 3 of the Siege of Thorns. Keep at ‘em, they’re weakening!

No loyal veteran customer base should be reduced to groveling for a fair deal. That’s what’s happening here. Instead of just giving us the two slots with standard, just like they did for EoTN, they have everyone begging for just one. Then you have the absolute victims who are doing anything they can to justify their enjoyment of the beating.

Consumerist Stockholm Syndrome.

Here’s another little bone of contention for people to mull over, especially vets. It appears to quite have escaped everyones notice. As most people know, especially vets, Guild Wars has things we classify as endgame. Stuff like skins, titles….Now remember they told us long ago and still do, that “Guild Wars will never be Pay to win!”

Follow me here.
Titles=Endgame
Endgame=Win

This being the case, I’m surprised nobody is pointing out the very very very obvious pay to win title that you get by one means only. Pay for it.

I cannot remember any precedent before this one where we have been forced to pay real money for a title. Forced for lack of a better term, to pay to win.

Just another example of aNet v.2 principles. Or lack thereof.

Ensio.8172:

SoPP.7034:

In essence as a veteran player I came away feeling that non of the pre-purchase deals suited me and as a result I went away with a collective ‘hmmmph’ and still haven’t pre-purchased it.

This was my feeling as well, none of the options available suited me (a person already owning the game).

Then again, this isn’t anything new though, Blizzard themselves said WoW, for example, was like a “revolving door”, old timers leave and newcomers arrive at a steady pace, the number of die hard players who stick with the game is very small in comparison.

Just look at what they did with their latest expansion, they increased the price by tacking on a character leveling boost so that “newcomers can join the action”

Veteran players had no need for the boost (as no new races or classes were added), tough kitten, they still had to pay.

Spot the trend.

Learned behaviour. ;-)

As a veteran, I can honestly say that years ago when we were standing on the steps of the Great Temple of Balthazar having large and active discussions on how micro transactions would ruin anet, and ultimately see Guild Wars sold to us piecemeal…

Let’s just say I don’t think I’m alone (I didn’t hear voices) when I say I never really thought it’d go this far..I didn’t foresee the aNet we have now..

Uproller.1849:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

smitske.4912:

funkyazn.9062:

Changeling Dash.4782:

Jski.6180:

So i am going to link this its fun to play with but when you use it ask your self how much is it to make a game or expatiation now becuse this is just inflation only. I like to bring up the ideal of if needed goods and services go up in price then non-needed goods and services should go up too. Its nice to live in a dream world where prices never changes but they do and entertainment tends to changes much faster then needed items. I would not be shocked at one point we will see games nearing the 100$ ranges as they are now (system games).

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

What, just tell me what exactly preventing Anet from somehow rewarding existing community by something ingame?
Like if:
- New players get GW2 + HotT
- Old players get HotT + 1000 gems + character slot

Both groups are happy. Everyone celebrating.
But instead, they just ignored old community. I can understand opinion “It costs 50$, i agree”, even if i don’t think so, but i can’t approve ignoring old players at all.

Hell, I would be content if we just get a release date. Doing things like awarding with gems or character slot or wtv the hell vets or new players want is probably too hard for Anet to think about. Ever since this whole debacle started, the community have been posting all kinds of solutions which some sounds a bit too much and some actually solves the problem IMO. But for some reason, the power that be at Anet cannot figure out a solution is beyond me. Are they too far up their own hype train to even comprehend of the damage they collect by not saying anything of substance? Poor Gaile must be tossing back and forth to keep things calm.

Guess we’ll see how this plays out in a couple of days. *They can’t ignore this for too long. *

They are trying too.
In all fairness they should have known because from the release onward people have been saying give a character slot with it. Its just typical Anet they ‘listen’ to what the community says (they added the slot on a more expensive pack) but ignore most of it and just remember 2/3 words, then interpret it the way they want and completely miss the point the community was making (another example the big trait changes they did in the past, they took part of what the communtiy said and then did it completely wrong in their own interpretation).

aNet already has the broader community exactly here they want them. This is pure sharking here. Instead of scratching their heads and wond’ring aloud about why we don’t get 2 slots with standard like we did with EoTN, the community seems to be almost unanimously begging for just one slot. Anything’s better than nothing right?

Right where they want us.

It’s almost certain that any compromise on their behalf will be to the approximate value of one measly slot. Mission complete for the anet marketers. Sell us less for more and make us forever breathe a sigh of relief that they met us half way.

Your theory (tin-foil hats on) sounds good but its a double edge sword don’t you think? I don’t think kittening off your customers then giving the bare minimum to placate them works every time…

They didn’t learn the first time around. (Gemgate)

For some people it takes more than a couple spins of the wheel to realise that the customer is not as stupid or gullible as they think.

smitske.4912:

funkyazn.9062:

Changeling Dash.4782:

Jski.6180:

So i am going to link this its fun to play with but when you use it ask your self how much is it to make a game or expatiation now becuse this is just inflation only. I like to bring up the ideal of if needed goods and services go up in price then non-needed goods and services should go up too. Its nice to live in a dream world where prices never changes but they do and entertainment tends to changes much faster then needed items. I would not be shocked at one point we will see games nearing the 100$ ranges as they are now (system games).

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

What, just tell me what exactly preventing Anet from somehow rewarding existing community by something ingame?
Like if:
- New players get GW2 + HotT
- Old players get HotT + 1000 gems + character slot

Both groups are happy. Everyone celebrating.
But instead, they just ignored old community. I can understand opinion “It costs 50$, i agree”, even if i don’t think so, but i can’t approve ignoring old players at all.

Hell, I would be content if we just get a release date. Doing things like awarding with gems or character slot or wtv the hell vets or new players want is probably too hard for Anet to think about. Ever since this whole debacle started, the community have been posting all kinds of solutions which some sounds a bit too much and some actually solves the problem IMO. But for some reason, the power that be at Anet cannot figure out a solution is beyond me. Are they too far up their own hype train to even comprehend of the damage they collect by not saying anything of substance? Poor Gaile must be tossing back and forth to keep things calm.

Guess we’ll see how this plays out in a couple of days. *They can’t ignore this for too long. *

They are trying too.
In all fairness they should have known because from the release onward people have been saying give a character slot with it. Its just typical Anet they ‘listen’ to what the community says (they added the slot on a more expensive pack) but ignore most of it and just remember 2/3 words, then interpret it the way they want and completely miss the point the community was making (another example the big trait changes they did in the past, they took part of what the communtiy said and then did it completely wrong in their own interpretation).

aNet already has the broader community exactly here they want them. This is pure sharking here. Instead of scratching their heads and wond’ring aloud about why we don’t get 2 slots with standard like we did with EoTN, the community seems to be almost unanimously begging for just one slot. Anything’s better than nothing right?

Right where they want us.

It’s almost certain that any compromise on their behalf will be to the approximate value of one measly slot. Mission complete for the anet marketers. Sell us less for more and make us forever breathe a sigh of relief that they met us half way.

papry.8096:

Hey, remember the reddit post with the reimboursement.
Guess what ?
Here their answer to people asking for help.

http://i.imgur.com/T0lpOQO.jpg

“Abandon ship! There’s no-one at the wheel!!”

They can’t even give the same answer across departments now? This is gold. Pure gold. Pay for guild wars, stay for the forums..

I remember when they announced the pre-order for Eye of the North, and gave anyone who bought it free copies of the first 3 games…

Oops. That never happened.

Do you know what else never happened? The forums were never full of dozens of threads that were continually merged into one giant thread, the essence of which was the majority of a veteran community begging to be given just one character slot. Just one.

It’s galling, and it is pathetic. It is pathetic to see a community reduced to grovelling to a company they funded for half of the slots that they happily gave us with GW1’s expansion.

Now what I’d like to see explained without a whole lot of blatant bs, is how people keep trotting out that tired old chestnut about how if we’re a vet, then we’ve had opportunity to content that newbs won’t get, rada rada rada….And that justifies us paying the same for a copy of the exp without a slot, while it also justifies a newb getting a copy of vanilla for free. A game all vets be it a week or a beta vet paid for.
So getting to it, if we’re paying retroactively for the content they’ve given us in the meantime (It doesn’t, the gem store paid for that, and the exp’s creation), but the new player is paying for the copy of gw2 vanilla…
That doesn’t work. No business model without a contract binding the end buyer into such a scheme requires a person to pay retroactively for content. Furthermore, newbs do not get charged retroactively for content they’ll never see, content that keeps getting trotted out as if we still owe for it.
It also doesn’t work because a new player should not get for free a copy of a vanilla game that we paid good money for. I see no sign of gw2 vanilla going f2p, so there is a fiscal component there. Obviously.

So who’s paying for what? Are we all paying retroactively for content some will never see, or are we all floating the newbs a free copy of gw2?

No matter how you look at it, the perspective that vets owe a single bloody thing for past content is farcical, farcical like it is to expect a new player to pay for it also and never see it. Just as farcical as expecting veteran players to float anonymous new players a copy of gw2, “Just to help get them into a game”. If I was going to float anyone a copy of vanilla, the one we should be able to pare off of the exp; the “Free copy” that aNet claims exists, but disappears if you activate HoT on an old account, I’d give it to someone I actually know.
Dig?

Obvious is seeing a thread called “Don’t Pre-Purchase Heart of Thorns” and whilst reading it, you see a post which starts off by saying:
“This thread is now the top-upvoted thread of all time in /r/Guildwars2.”

You like that? With one fell swoop they’ve got themselves the top upvoted thread of all time. I bet they wished to hell and back that the OP’s title was:

“Heart of Thorns is the BEST value ever!!!”

The crowd continues to roar…..

What’s really kitten ing is when you look at places like reddit, which is kinda like this but without the blind fanboyism that pervades here. It’s an honest look at how people are feeling, sans the need to self-justify simply for pointing out that we’re being shafted..
Gaile has posted here, which means they’re a bit perturbed about the general reaction, because they know as well as we vets do that the sycophants are absolutely not a reflection of the underlying feeling of a community and never will be.
aNet has every right to be worried. They’ve put themselves into the second fecal tornado in a row by thinking once again that we would never object to being not so much “Ripped off”, no worse IMHO. The veteran players have simply been outright forgotten. I think that it’s far worse to be forgotten outright than it is to be deliberately slighted. Far worse.
But what can they do? Go back on their word and change the deals? Admit they were wrong? Nope. I think they’ll sit on this, hoping that the players themselves will present the cheapest possible option, because addicts will happily compromise to get their fix if it’s threatened. That’s what they’re waiting for. They’re waiting for us to sell ourselves sufficiently short to suit their absolute money-grubbery. We got 2 slots with the standard EoTN. With the standard exp, we don’t even get 1, but a new player, well they get 5. That’s greed beyond intelligence. Give you a new class that you can’t play without a byo slot.
aNet, well they’re hoping enough players will jump up and down begging to be given just one. Then they don’t even have to fork out the 2 that they used to give with the GW1 exp…
Between this and Gemgate, well that is strike 2. How many times should a company be forgiven when the obvious becomes so blatantly obvious?

This has gone from a day that should have been wondrous, to yet another of the days when aNet made everyone flinch. I wonder is this to be the norm from here on, every time aNet has an upcoming announcement, instead of excitement we feel a twinge of shadow pain at the possibility of them shanking us…Again?

I think someone earlier almost nailed it, but hey, name’s Hammer, let me smack it down. We are faced with a choice ultimately, most of we veterans.
1) Pay $50 for an expansion to a game we already own that contains a copy of the game we already own but which can’t be separated that we might use it as a mule account or give it to a friend to gain a new GW customer…We’ll also need to pay another $10 for a slot for the new class which is an intrinsic part of that expansion. etc.

2)Fallout 4.

Did you ever hear that adage that the simplest choice is often the best? Now apply that to those 2 choices. Which looks simpler on paper?

This is the problem aNet. You’re offering people who are intelligent and discerning, and we must be both of those things right aNet? We’ve mastered your rulesets for nearly 10 years, forced you to “Balance” and nerf over and over for all that time by out smarting you… You offer us the choice between spending money on your expansion which offers us less by far than anything before, and just not giving you anything more, because stuff like F-A-L-L-O-U-T-4!!!!!!11111ONEONE! is coming?

“Do you take us for fools, sah?”

Speaking for myself, I’ve given you thousands. Accounts, slots in gw1 and 2, lots of gems, etc… Do not mistake my love of your game for blind stupidity or me for a cash cow to be milked mercilessly. There are other worlds than these.. ;-)

Nike.2631:

Nike.2631:

Nike.2631:

If I had to guess at the inner dialogue of the gnomes in Marketing, there will be a basic edition that does not have an extra character slot, and a deluxe version that — in addition to a ton of other whistles and bells to entice you to part with an extra 20 bucks — does have an extra character slot.

It’s just so perfectly one of those things that would be nice but isn’t strictly required for it be functional.

Spooky…

Some days the power of True Prophecy is really surprisingly satisfying. Called it to within $5 three months ago .

You didn’t call it, silly person. They had no idea what they were doing until they saw your post. Thanks a lot mate. You screwed us all. :P

Rule #1 of Guild Wars since way back: NEVER say anything in public that might give anet ideas.

Thread after thread after thread.. It hurts to watch this go down but on the upside, GT7 is coming. Not buying the exp will give me more time to drive. \m/

Agreed. Can someone just delete all the other threads and pin this? That would be great.

Incentive. That’s the key word out of all this because as it stands new players get all the incentive. Not only do they get the exp for $50, they also get the full game for free and 5 empty character slots to do with as they please. Anyone buying it for a mule account also gets their moneys worth for the $50 pack. Absolutely. As stated, full game, exp, 5 slots.

Old players not willing to pay $100 for the Ultimate pack, arguably the only one that comes close to value for money, get absolute zero incentive. Link the $50 exp to your main, and lose:
5 character slots
Storage tab
Vanilla GW2 which fizzes into nothingness forever, taking the aforementioned with it.(I wonder, will those numbers still be added to overall GW player numbers for sales figures that look better in press releases)
Pay $75 and you get some worthless trinkets that will rarely ever see the light of day. Like the minis and skins from HoM in GW1, they’re neat and all, but there’s no prestige, they’ll never be seen again once the things that cost money proliferate..Any Hat Wars player knows this is truth.
You also get a slot which would have cost you 10 bucks had you paid for it with gems. ($15 saved so far, just buy basic+slot for 60 tot)~ So, no value there either.

Ultimately, only Ultimate is……sorta….worth buying, and again, only really for stuff you won’t really use and a slot, so basically $60 worth with $50 worth of gems and a 10 buck discount..

To anyone with a brain, there is just no incentive. I have a brain, I don’t however have the sort of disposable income that allows for me to splash out a minimum of $180 to get us all playing something that should have cost us $120 tops..

briggah.7910:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

I think you’re missing it entirely. My point is that when people like me, who have paid thousands of dollars to these guys HAPPILY and would continue to do so happily start getting up and getting jacked, it says something.
When your most loyal fans start saying “Too much!” then you have a problem.
Also, I call BS on your blast statement. :P

So you spent thousands of dollars and can’t cough up another 50? LOL should have maybe spend hundreds instead.

Did you miss all the “x3”
$150. And then 800 gems x3 for the slots.

It all adds up. I didn’t need to give them an extra 30 bucks so we could play EoTN without having to delete a character to make a new one, nor should I have to now. I’m a dedicated and loyal customer as are the many others who are in a similar boat. But you know how it goes, they have our money, they will do as they please. Once upon a time though, it pleased them to please us. Fancy a world like that eh..

The funniest thing. I remember when D3 exp was announced. Everyone was happy. When they announced pricing, they were still happy. When it was released once again, they were mostly still happy. Oh, they also didn’t have to have an imaginary copy of D3 taken from them that they could have kept if they’d started a new account, and they didn’t have to pay for a character slot to use the new class either.

You know it’s going hell west and crooked when Blizzard give better value and look after their customers better than aNet, a company started by disgruntled Blizz employees, who among other things were peeved at Blizz’s treatment of loyal customers.

It is to laugh, haha.

I think you’re missing it entirely. My point is that when people like me, who have paid thousands of dollars to these guys HAPPILY and would continue to do so happily start getting up and getting jacked, it says something.
When your most loyal fans start saying “Too much!” then you have a problem.
Also, I call BS on your blast statement. :P