Guild Wars 2

Biggest surprise for me is that people on TC aren’t screening your zergs to post on here. I spend most of my time on maps that our zerg isn’t putting into a queue and there are definitely elements of your servers that want the whole map in one spot.

Then again maybe it’s a time of day thing.

e- Maybe with some luck this change will actually get us to break into smaller groups. I’d love to up the strategy component of WvW just because it’s so much easier to side step zergs now.

Foss.4830:

sestitodc.3567:

Foss.4830:

Kerithlan.1659:

Allow me to break the ice with score updates. Unfortunately my computer, being 10 years old, does not render characters nicely.

This is clearly a 2v1 situation against Kaineng, and it is obviously the result of “keeping the man down”. Just look at that ppt. It’s so tiny!

Edit: because I just realized it’s hard to detect when posts like this are serious or not, I’m being facetious. Reset scores are hilariously small imho.

We always have a very weak reset night. I think its mainly due to the large number of pugs that clog up the queues for hours on end. I myself am currently sitting in LA waiting to get into BG.

I doubt its a case of us being double teamed.

So BG and TC pugs are both better than Kain pugs I suppose, since all high tier servers have that same queue problem on reset.

Like I said in a previous post. Our pugs have alot to learn :P

IMO the value of pugs (militia) mainly depends on how much time you can get them in the map when it’s not Friday night or you’re not winning so hard that your enemy has already quit.

If they won’t come to the maps the rest of the time then there’s just no way to get knowledge to them from the folks that know how to do things other than go tunnel vision to play PvGate.

-

My the culling is bad tonight- I don’t remember it being like this when they did the trial run. At one point I came up to a camp that had just flipped, saw two people in it, but waited a good ten or twenty seconds in case of culling- we charge in and lose half of our health as the full cull limit worth of players suddenly pops up now that they are actually killing us.

I feel a lot less skilled for all the times I’ve killed enemies charging me if they’re running into such severe culling even just one tenth of the time.

Usagi.4835:

In fairness, you have some of your own people to blame for that; we were told that some of the more prominent people from FA’s guilds were planning a ‘trojan-horse’ attack. That claim was further backed up by the fact that there was a dolyak from RET with a commander tag on…

ower.9143:

Yeah, ok kiddo. Have the SS to show it and EB at this point is still evenly split. Guess it was just a coincidence. Guess TC is happy being BG’s kitten and playing for 2nd.

I wouldn’t mind being BG’s kitten! I’m totally okay with that!

Stawker got a little more notice from us than he seemed to expect so when the primordial dragons rolled in they got wiped. Second attack before the parade even started was an unexpected portal bomb (much harder to spot those things when you have folks running around in a party mood) so we had a good portion of the group running back from spawn to clean that up but we didn’t wipe at any point, and if my view of the culling gave a good picture of it they didn’t get more lootbags than we did out of it.

The part I actually found lulzy was how so many FA were after us during the parade that they lost hills for it, which ultimately led into the loss of the garrison. Kind of an echo of the original parade but overall craftier since we’re all high pop* servers and a tier higher at current.

*People don’t stop playing all week once they lose badly one night.

On the other hand you got double teamed again after trying to spoil a party so I expect y’all to be pretty sour about yak parades after this, which is a shame.

Can the person that made this fan art please step forward? We need to thank you more often.

Also: Show the folks your arts Ellie.

When you’re in a big enough group that the enemy wouldn’t have rolled you anyway you’ve got aoe-a-plenty for really punishing them as they come through a portal.

Also recognize that they are probably going to blindly charge out of it so any wall effect you put down is going to hit all of them- line of warding will probably knock them on their butts twice before they choose a new direction to run-
basically you only need to see the portal and be in range of it to do any of these things and seriously bring the pain to zergs.

If they’re just using the portal away from combat to amplify culling that stinks but it’s already been brought up that veil is a much more potent contributor to that and the devs are working on solving culling in other ways.

The presence of conditions does a lot to stop the back line ranged from just running back a few yards to auto-fill their hp much faster than their personal heal could, but the actual situation where you get to apply lots of conditions to enemies is fairly rare in the way WvW is currently played: you need to have a more durable group than your enemy and also flank them and charge in so that there’s not a safe little colored door to run into nor a nice open field where they can go back to ranged-poke mode.

Likewise the actual potency of conditions is very dependent on the fraction of players with you that apply conditions and class composition. When you’ve got a dozen different conditions on a lot of players very few personal purges will still be able to wipe the slate clean, and the few that still can do that to a group tend to just drop them one at a time.

There is a much more important consideration though: if a player blows his condition removal to drop a stack of bleeds this tends to also (often) means that he no longer has a way to remove immobilize/cripple/chill effects. With some communication you can be the person that sets players up to get badly pwnt by everyone else, or if you’re numbers hungry you could instead be the person adding effects after they blow that purge to get out of the movement impairing effects I listed.

But none of that is very meta, and it would mostly require that you have a party with somebody calling focus targets, etc. If you’re in a guild that wants to roll a condition-burst group then maybe it will work out for you but if you just kind of swarm around a commander most of the time you’re in WvW conditions aren’t very fun, and you gimp yourself badly for damaging pieces of siege.

I still obviously encourage having a good portion of players in WvW rolling conditions, but for reasons very different from eating up health bars.

My understanding was that they had this planned quite awhile back as a way to “let the players decide which servers would be PvP and which would be PvE based.”

…the least I can say is that I dislike the number of Titanic references this whole ordeal has evoked.

Zoel.9154:

Tyrlis.8072:

Welcome to Dragonbrand, I haven’t had a chance to fight you much yet, I was on the FA side of CDBL last night, but you’re sticking close in score and that shows you’ve got what it takes.

To FA and the [RET]-led zerg, I am going to love fighting you guys for about a week, during which I’m going to learn all of your tricks and tactics. Then I’d like you to all retire from GW2 and do something less harmful to my repair bill. Underwater basket-weaving sounds like a boom industry right now, I’ve heard…

I never understood how people complained about repair bills and costs exceeding gains in WvW. Then I switched from Engineer to Guardian.

Son. of. a. kitten.

It’s why so many people run a spec that lets them run away from fights as soon as the melee turn into loot bags. If more of them actually had a full set of support skills and cared about what was happening to you in a fight then you wouldn’t die nearly so easily.

But then they would start to feel your repair costs for losing. It isn’t very expensive but the idea of spending more money on repairs than you get from standard drops is intensely unappealing to modern gamers.

Raincrow.1840:

And this is the problem with small groups. A large group moves at almost the same speed a smaller group does

That’s when it turns into a bit of a logistics and opportunity cost problem. Is it worth it to spend the next five minutes moving 20-40 people to a supply camp to flip it and go back to what you were doing? Not while you’re fending off an attack no. Even less so when they are far from a waypoint and it will mean several people lagging behind get picked off.

If you’ve already got that group split into parties is it worthwhile to send just one to flip the camp, and then have another party headed over when they are nearly back and so on to run supply into the place? Kitten yes, especially when you’ve got somebody that actually knows where supply is most critically spent.

Small groups are good for ninja attempts on undefended points … or taking multiple camps at once… Small groups can only defend with plenty of well placed seige, and even then they’re just a stalling tactic against a larger force.

Large groups will be busy taking camps quickly or attacking keeps so they can’t defend either. Even if they decide to just /sit in some keep to defend it that’s everyone in one place and they can’t get to a lot of other places before a bunch of flame rams bust into a gate.

I should point out that I never intended for ALL of the players to be roaming around in groups of five. Average players need a little more than half of what they’re against for even the easiest to defend location. You can do it with less than that but most players won’t even try very hard with so few of them there. Likewise for open terrain fighting you need at least a good fraction of the enemy numbers and outside of some spectacular guild system I don’t remotely expect to be able to move all the little groups in sync enough to get them to all engage the fight at a reasonably similar time.

Whatever the case you’ve got to have more players basically stacked up on a commander behind a door before you walk out to meet that.

As for stalling, the hills keep lord room defenses we’ve seen should make the power of that abundantly clear. Like everything else taking advantage of it at a smaller scale requires a lot of communication and to do a lot of other things that don’t come naturally.

the big zerg can go where it wants … and has much more control over what’s going on in the map.

No, they don’t.
Let’s shift the language a bit to get rid of this little ambiguity in what you’re saying:
I’m going to act like the population cap on a map is 40 and they aren’t idle or otherwise out of the fight for simplicity’s sake. This should still make sense scaled up to the actual number of players we see on maps.
40 players in one location will quickly take over any camp near them that is deemed important, will have enough supply to build a lot of siege rapidly, and won’t have to avoid larger groups on the map. They will get slowed down and/or trickle when some of them chase a thief so far that the commander doesn’t even render anymore, will generally make their presence very clear with orange swords and the vanishing yak and sentry icons on the map, and in the case that they wipe there won’t be anything on the map to cause worry for the group that wiped them for several minutes.

40 players on a map where three groups of five are scouting/protecting camps from other five man groups/escorting or ganking yaks, and the other 25 are two groups that mostly move around near each other but will sometimes go harass places on opposite sides of the map- well, they will get a whole lot more done in the same amount of time. If the 25 end up defending some fortification from a 40 person ball while 10 players run supply into it when needed but otherwise take control of more camps, and the remaining 5 go start ramming down a gate or catapulting a wall somewhere- well they’re getting a whole lot more done, again.

The big reason we see the one-spot-on-the-map groups is two-fold:
They can form spontaneously and go about their business simply by virtue of having at least one commander tag on the map.
They last a long time because they can run to any point on the map without any scouting yet still not run into a group that is too big to fight.

In reality the population on a map is always doing a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B- unless the enemy has completely withdrawn, in which case you should go full A if only so everyone gets event completions.
But what I’m saying is that we’ve basically topped out on what you can accomplish with a large ball that outnumbers anything they hit other than an equally large ball, but there is a whole lot of room left to grow for distributed groups, and I’ve explained the next step to keeping players much more motivated to do that.

Aytrix.4059:

gw2guilds.org

That site would actually be pretty handy if it had all the guild tags displayed on the list page.

Raincrow.1840:

TC plays to win, cares about the score, and doesn’t spread a lot of man power all over the maps in small groups, but stays relatively organized with quick response times. TC was the only server we’ve faced that beat us often.

I still maintain that having small groups at a similar level of organization is superior for points. Zerging over those players is more of a morale crusher that beats the distributed players because in small groups it’s easy to trickle away so you’ve got lots of players ditching the map, or WvW outright.

Defense can stall a zerg with less than equal numbers but the big thing people don’t seem to do is pay attention to where the zerg has gone as soon as they finally peel off of the gate.

The smaller groups need to be aware that there’s a steamroller potentially coming their way, but map chat just isn’t very good for that kind of intel alert.

This all shifts a little bit if it’s all folks assigned to particular commanders and the commanders are all talking to each other rather than just using swarm metrics to automatically stay near each other, but that’s not something that happens every day.

Saweth You Him.9047:

If I recall the scores were reasonably close until it was sunday I think ioj fielded their best guilds in our borderland at the same time CD fielded a huge force and we were stuck on defense the whole night and were down to only two towers and our garrison. We had no capability to produce counter play against CD because we were entirely pinned down. At that point the match pretty much went to CD. ioj makes no effort to take CDs bay keep. When CD was blue we pushed CDs bay keep and their borderland. In this match-up CD pushes our Bay keep every night.

CD opened up with a little bit above the other two server’s scores combined Friday night, and then didn’t quite push so hard on Saturday but still steadily widened the gap.

-on spies-
Personally I’d prefer they transfer to other servers, even if in the same tier, than complain about how their server can’t secure a point for them in the thread. Everyone remember what that’s like?
In game chat is only secondary communication to me though. Probably a really threatening experience when you’re used to getting all your map information through a system that looks compromised.

If I recall the commander squads were supposed to have their own chat and that would be pretty handy. Next best thing would be guild chat. If anybody worried about spies doesn’t have a WvW guild they should probably put their energy toward fixing that.

To me it seems obvious that a (dangerous) chat-spy wouldn’t broadcast their guild tag in a high traffic area like that. Better to just assume they know how to hide, or even fly a different flag and leak info into a voip program. Between spies and the actual coordination boost that comes from having these sub-groups established, you should absolutely get these other lines of communication going.

And then by the time spies are trying to get into your guild/voip you’re almost more honored that they thought you were important enough for that (and you deal with it fast because somebody in your group actually has the power to boot folks out of it.)

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Niim.9260:

I couldn’t for the life of me draw a correlation between your big post and what I said.

The tl;dr of my post is:

If the purpose of this game was to win (and not have fun…) then the best way to do it would be to forget the small-groups and put everyone into one massive zerg following a single commander icon.

It takes a lot of work (especially the kind most players don’t know how to do and don’t care to learn how to do,) to outperform that kind of zerg.
If you look at all of the tools available to you (game mechanics) there’s a lot of ways to butcher the players that don’t really pay attention to anything besides event completions and the size of the numbers leaking out of their enemies. Take some time and figure out how to punish servers for forgetting how to split their forces.

Saweth You Him.9047:

If either we or ioj goes to T4 I will be happy. They(ioj) have to be the lousiest server I have had the somewhat pleasure of playing against. They do their math on a 1-dimensional abacus and act as nothing more than a tier filler. They put the fate of the game entirely in the hands of CD so they can choose the weakest servers to hoard into the tier and catapult themselves up a tier or just sit at the top of T3 farming.

That’s a bit unfair- they had a good showing their first week here and then after that the two of you kept CD in check for the most part. This critical mass thing wasn’t really something either of you could predict and even now we’re still only speculating on quite how much each factor influenced it.

Zoel.9154:

That’s an interesting description to ascribe to your opponents. I certainly hope you haven’t taken so much offense at the relatively innocuous comments in this thread, so I’ll assume your description of “petty cerebrates” was in jest rather than a knee jerk reaction. Personally, if I were to make fun of my own server, I would ignore the obvious myth that most players watch their mini-map and keep track of their surroundings, and instead I would make light of the fact that our overprivleged PvE server hits the 10 tag per map cap on a regular basis.

I didn’t give an earlier definition. The guy that did has a name kind of similar to mine though.

I think I’d stand by the cerebrates thing for players that aren’t using voip though, or at least in a WvW guild that’s trying to be good at this stuff (though my instincts say that there’s 99% overlap between those two categories.)
The cerebrates weren’t bad per se, they were just spending the bulk of their time keeping the swarms together instead of letting them fall apart and sit idle while important “world map” objectives were going on.

But kill those and the roaches scatter (oh-wait-those-are-from-the-second-game.)
I’m not really dissing any particular server, it is just a terrible experience trying to get a lot of people to follow typed commands- or your server has already won and you can just run karma trains that just wins with numbers; no real strategy besides “shoot at everything and tunnel vision on gates we’re ramming.”

There’s simply a lot more you can do when you actually care to do more that a 1v1 build and basically only contribute your autoattacks to getting into towers/keeps. You can play this like it’s a single player game or you can upgrade to a hero unit that actually is more useful in group combat.

But most players don’t even want to learn the sPvP stuff that’s useful in WvW.

wolf.1895:

sostronk.8167:

I don’t think I understand the points system correctly. Can someone explain? Pretty much everytime I checked for the last 36hours, IoJ has had slightly more contested areas, but FA has increased the lead by almost 4k during that period. What else is used to calculate server score?

Dolyak & Sentry kills grant points

Using the point tick timer to your advantage is also key.

You also get points when dolyaks hit a door (maybe with an extra condition that’s harder to nail down.)
I’d say most of the score gap is probably from hours when sostronk isn’t looking. FA has a pretty big surge of players after midnight so they could easily be creating much of the spread during odd times of day.
Likewise the other sources of points aren’t something you’d expect to see a lot of activity on if they’re not actively trying to capture a lot of PoIs.

Saweth You Him.9047:

I am trying a character assassination on you with a carebear stare. Read the forum rules sticky and you’ll get it. You troll a lot so you seem like an obvious target.

“Do not engage in personal attacks against forum members or in character assassination.”

I think what they actually prefer is that you click the report button when I behave inappropriately, largely because if they decide to infract me they still have to remove your character snipe post. Seriously, they don’t want the forums filling up with posts about who deserves to be banned.

As for me being a troll: I mainly try to supply useful information, dispel rumors, and be kind of funny about the competition stuff. A lot of the time I totally botch the last one.
Whether it seemed funnier in my head or I’m doing Freudian slips and such, I just don’t quite get it right every time.

I think the big problem is the volume of it all, so I’m planning on throttling back to only responding to two or maybe three posts in any one go. Sound good and not-troll-y?

I’d quote the villain from the second care bears movie after they make him care but I can’t find it (it would have been funny, I’m sure of it!)

Saweth You Him.9047:

Bah. Carebear forum rules. Everybody line up infront of smc gate and ready your carebear stare. We can take this castle with love and compassion. As for the cheaters, they get extra love and compassion for being naughty. Nothing makes a naughty person nice like a warm tender hug. Come here Hekatombaion.4320. Lionheart has something special for you.

I’m not sure I get what you’re talking about.

Henrik.7560:

It has been clearly seen IoJ’s numbers have gone down in their groups, and there aren’t as many groups around.

I could see this being a real factor even if our population has stayed the same. We took the green position even with both servers in our borderland the entire week (aside from when we decided to really crush FABL.)
It has always felt like FA didn’t have the strength to stand on their own. They just couldn’t do anything at first because of how TC disliked them, nor anything the first week after TC was gone and they didn’t yet know how to piggy back off of IoJ’s work. With IoJ apparently withering that much more FA would have to actually do the larger share of putting pressure on CD to slow us down.
But that’s not remotely an issue now that our truly zergy players have swarmed back into WvW.

On the other hand I guess this is one way to naturally shift the rating faster for all those folks that whined about the same matchup going on for months. Either get the fight unfair enough that you win from overwhelming zergs, have the other two servers stop making it resemble a fair fight, or gang up on the little guy till he drops a tier.

Seems like a majority of the long term players don’t want any of those things though, so we fight each other tooth and nail until the fairweathers make otherwise stable servers move.

Folk.2093:

CD just got “Better” and “organized” enough to go from third place during the TC vs FA vs CD rounds to first place. Is my assumption correct?

If you mean last weeks score then yes. If you mean the score so far this week not quite.

Our WvW attendance around the holidays was abysmal. We told ourselves “the other servers are all dealing with it too” but as far as I can tell they just weren’t. Not this bad. What we have right now feels more like the crowds that stomped all those tier four servers after our big guilds were getting tired of unfulfilling victories.

Maybe CD just has a lot of players that refuse to play if we’re not green. Makes the ones that do that much better at clawing their way up the ranks but just, why? Why weren’t they here when TC was? Those weeks would have been really great with this kind of CD turnout against the usual TC turnout.

Kman.7358:

I’m failing to remember ever coming third place in those matchups you speak of.

We did once. We had just enough rating points to stay blue instead of dropping to red.
Much ado over this by that guy that desperately want to get map completion. so it sticks out in my memory.

haarek.5836:

Far as skill goes, we at CD hold “classes” where the more experienced teach the new players, for instance we had one a few hours before reset this week. In my guild we have worked to get the new players, who got the game for Christmas, interested in World vs World. Naturally we improve over time, as do our opponents.

Currently I’d actually say that our average player is less skilled than the average players on other servers. This population swell means we’ve got to be more diligent in training people, both because there is a greater need and because the pugs are going to think that it’s not important if they don’t know how to do anything but get some white number spray from the red clouds.

Desterion.6407:

Ioj and FA aren’t getting worse, we’re just not bothering to go out anymore.

That sounded like an echo to me.

There is no skill involved just pure overwhelming numbers.

It’s a sad thing to say but you’re right. I hate having these month long cycles (…) where the winning server gets this huge turnout and then other servers stop showing up. If we could desynchronize the whole winning thing from actual player turnout and have either the full hoards from every server on the field or just the really persistent players from every server…

I had hopes that this silliness would come to a halt once server transfers were phased out but now it seems there really are just a lot of players that prefer to run instances and level alts if we’re not winning WvW with overwhelming numbers.

Zoel.9154:

Most people use it to refer to a group of people that outnumber their opponents to the point that gear and strategy is rendered meaningless.

Hahaha, no they kittening don’t.
Most people use it to refer to a group big enough that their personal gear and strategy might fail.

The term comes … starcraft, in which Zerg … make up for having weaker overall units by having more of them… they are also essentially mindless insects … it is frequently considered an insult to accuse your opponents of “Zerging.”

That last bit is what’s important- we’re petty people so naturally we insult our opponents at every opportunity. We beat you? You’re weak. You beat us? kitten zerglings just ran us over with numbers but we know we’re better than them player for player.

I’d put the average pug commander on level with most of the cerebrates that you beat up in the original game’s campaign. It just took the proper strategist and some elite soldiers to perform surgical strikes on them (no seriously, pugs turn tail and run really fast when their commander is dead. That’s why we don’t ((usually)) chew each other out for wasting time focusing folks with the tag.)

cimon.5798:

upon reset the guild im in went into the ioj bl and tbh i felt like we were the only guild there. we dont need more people on our server we need more people in wvw that are already on our server.

It did seem odd that you had enough folks on our map to take the southern keeps but not enough on your own to take back garrison.

Karykarywook.2481:

I know for SURE this wasn’t a double teaming event against CD – IOJ was also actively taking the east side of the map – which by not taking Anz from us, freed us to not only take back our bases, but we even went to take Umber and Durios. I mentioned in map chat I felt pretty bad about taking IOJ stuff after that event.

Really, I wish I had that in fraps. Probably the most amazing thing I’ve ever seen in PVP.

I’d expect to see more of this as the game matures, particularly because having been involved in similar things I can say that it’s really funny to crush a bunch of people like you’re stealing a capture from them but then just leave because you only really didn’t want them to get a particular good position.

Organized guilds are going to become more capable of doing this kind of thing for sure. Not so sure about pug commanders ever getting that capacity though.

Bit.2519:

I don’t feel they are worth spending 4 alphas to make one, personally, while its cool they can hit from range and can hit walls, its almost always a better choice to use trebs/catas for walls.

That’s true of flame rams on a gate as well. The only benefit to golems is that your enemy doesn’t know where they will strike, and if you can get them out of combat to way point you don’t need to feel committed to attacking a spot once defenders put up too much resistance.

Xenth.2408:

I’m not the thief in question but I’m guessing he stacked might via signets and/or dodge rolling. I assume you know but heartseeker does more damage the less health you have so I’m guessing you were under half when that big HS hit you. I imagine he maxed crit damage too. Even considering that, that’s a pretty big HS hit considering your armor.

If you look at the combat log in the screenie you’ll see that they opened up for 10k, did the little steal deal for about 2k total, and then when at half health the next hit was 9k. Full Mesmer health bar right there (and even if you got the hp higher it’s not like the thief wouldn’t just have the initiative for another heartseeker.)

So far as I can tell when it comes to getting hit by a d/d thief out of combat mesmers are in the worst position of any class. If the illusions were pets that we could just keep out like necros then we could pop them for a few options but the couple of utility skills that might be useful here don’t lend much to larger combats. Basically if you run 1h sword and you have good reflexes you can pop the one that blurs you and hope the thief renders so you get to see them before you’re dead.

I feel great against the ones that run double pistol but get the feeling I’ve never seen that really done to the cheesy extreme that’s all over the place with double dagger.
Heartseeker openers are pretty hillarious when ungeared thieves try it though.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

I’m sitting here reading the posts, and I can actually see all the little lightbulbs going on over the heads of every CD player.

“Ooooh… they were taking durios because it was the easiest to take. Not because they hated us…..”

Hahaha… silly CD.

Here’s another one: When CD was in 2nd place, that put the Bay (in your borderland) nearest the FA spawn. Bay is a lot easier to take than hills (Which we would have had to take if we were attacking the IoJ borderland while they were in first).

It….it’s all starting to make sense now….

Never the matter, though. FA morale seems to be holding strong.

Good fights so far.

All things I addressed.
Plus I made that “bully” post about how it had better turn out to be map positioning.

If the weekday numbers settle down to what they were last week then we’re still going to see the both of you all over our borderland though.

Desterion.6407:

Too bad FA is like ioj and doesn’t have the population to actually fight CD. Just like the point values, they’ve got more population than fa+ioj combined.

Based on Friday night you didn’t have enough players to come to IoJBL at all but I also can’t imagine you’d have split only enough for a queue in your home BL to all the other maps. That’s the kind of population you’d got during week days, not at all fit for the opening night.

What happened is that your fair weather players* have quit because things weren’t going well for them.
*Not that fair weather because hey, you’ve been fighting CD for quite awhile now. I’d guess the usual Friday burst players are probably the least tenacious though- the good ones that actually kept fighting in your home map will be around a lot during the week and I think that will even improve your reputation as a server.

Folk.2093:

What? That can’t be! CD didn’t gain more population as of late and have thereby won because of it, they all just got better. Blasphemy!

Unlike the super trolly last time I saw you post there’s a decent point to this.
Disappointed that you won’t rock a guild tag or even just server in your signature but oh well, whatever.

But back on topic we do seriously have a lot more online now, except it’s not from transfers. We’ve got players that were already on the server becoming much more active in WvW. Very out of character for me I don’t have any well founded explanation of why.

It has led to some strange growing pains. We are now fairly easy to farm (not the guilds that have been here, just the people I can’t put under specific guild tags,) so enemy guilds are shining as we often get to see them not only doing that but invigorated from having killed so many scrubs. Meanwhile a lot of our guilds don’t have the freedom to move to whatever map they want and we’ve become far too used to “they’re taking our things because we don’t have enough people on this map.”

sostronk.8167:

WvW is almost entirely a numbers game. It doesn’t matter how good your tactics are, how skilled your players are or how well your commanders lead. What matters is how good your guild/server recruitment is and how well guilds can do at engaging players to contribute towards WvW. From my perspective, this system is flawed and eventually it will start eating away at itself if Anet doesn’t change it.

The only change I really see being a big deal is how the WvW shares server population with PvE content. It’s not terrible to have players switching between them but the difference between having enough players to fill one borderland and having enough to fill two or three is probably not one that can be overcome by a few elite guilds. If we keep this kind of coverage into the week then yes, it’s going to be a really terrible match for the other two servers.

I don’t think it’s going to be quite that extreme but I do think we’ll get more mileage than we deserve (meaning skill level) from having a higher overall WvW population.

Niim.9260:

Hekatombaion.4320:

Niim.9260:

Are you seriously trying to bully an entire server with threats of what you will do?

Not how I’d frame it at all!
But really, after all the posts saying we get focused because you’re fighting for second, that we get focused because everyone is fighting for first, that we get focused on EB because blue is the weakest position-
After all of those, if we don’t see you carving out any territory on each other’s maps-
Well then there’s only one reason left for you to spend all your time on ours: because we’re weak.

Maybe they are just there because you talk a lot of kitten?

Maybe they find blue a soothing color?

Maybe after TC, green to them forever means ‘boring as hell to fight’ so they subconsciously head towards blue?

Maybe alien’s are mind controlling them all because green is their favorite color?

Maybe your delusional and reading a lot more into people having fun than is sane?

Maybe, you are a bully IRL?

Maybe

Niim.9260:

Hekatombaion.4320:

If they independently keep choosing CDBL (minus the automatic few in EB) next week the couple dozen commanders on CD might independently decide to deny FA points until you’re pushed out of the tier.

You’ve seen a couple of nights now what we can do when we feel motivated enough to make it happen. As I’ve said before this has been an escalating cycle of retaliation. FA’s big guilds and commanders need to look at this and ask themselves “is this the ceiling or can they do something even worse?”
From my perspective the smart move seems to be for red to always have or be pushing for at least one keep in IoJBL. Keep CD running mostly on pug power instead of concerted guild efforts with a specific FA priority.

Are you seriously trying to bully an entire server with threats of what you will do?

Not how I’d frame it at all!
But really, after all the posts saying we get focused because you’re fighting for second, that we get focused because everyone is fighting for first, that we get focused on EB because blue is the weakest position-
After all of those, if we don’t see you carving out any territory on each other’s maps-
Well then there’s only one reason left for you to spend all your time on ours: because we’re weak.

If that is the reason that all the enemy commanders spend their time in CDBL, well then we’re going to have to stop being weak.

Saweth You Him.9047:

How about you push us out of the tier right now if you are so capable. Or how about I try my hand at match manipulation and join the cd server and idle in cd borderlands 24/7 or give away troop strength, makeup, and location and waste keep supply building a line of rams from your garrison to each of the keeps.

Seems like you’d get banned, but hey, I won’t stop you.

Epidemiology.8496:

but you’re foolish to think you’re nearly as good as your ego will have you to believe; in fact, I truly hope you accumulate enough points to go into Tier 2, just to see how a server that consistently lost to 3rd place in Tier 2 TC would fare

Nah, I just thought it was a humorous way to approach the subject.
However the point about forcing FA down a tier wouldn’t be about moving up to tier two- the idea I was trying to convey was that we put very little pressure on IoJ to the point that we’re not just doing things like denying your garrison to you multiple nights in a row but that you’ve also got the IoJ commanders in your border. Pretty sure if we let our own borderland go entirely to IoJ that they’d finally spend enough time on yours to not just push you down to double digit potential but keep you there for most of the day.

It’s ludicrous the think we’d actually let that happen but that’s also why I thought it was funny.

Chaba.5410:

Saweth You Him.9047:

How about you push us out of the tier right now if you are so capable. Or how about I try my hand at match manipulation and join the cd server and idle in cd borderlands 24/7 or give away troop strength, makeup, and location and waste keep supply building a line of rams from your garrison to each of the keeps.

The server transfer system should be modified to prevent transfers between servers in a single tier and the tiers both 1 above and 1 below. But allow free transfers to servers in other tiers.

That would be terrible for PvE and leveling irl pals. I’d gladly take ten times as many spies as we’ve actually got over that.

Kinglette.4906:

JoshuaLim.5197:

So 3 rounds is the expiration date for mutual respect? I certainly hope not

It seems to be the pattern from our other match ups as well. But I love that people with the biggest mouths don’t have a guild tag showing

That’s odd. I’m pretty sure you mean me but my guild tag is right at the bottom of every post.

selan.8354:

Wow you really sound like TC right now,

This sounds so weird to me. I don’t remember them ever even joking like that, much less claiming it as seriously as you thought I was.

Unfortunately.5940:

Ugh. If CD move up that would mean TC would move down again and i really don’t feel like facing those roleplaying dolyak-lovers again..

They’re a tier onto you and CD is moving into 1st place. Maybe there’s something to liking dolyak parades.

Just sayin.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

And certainly not because there’s a dozen commanders who independently make decisions about what to attack on a given day. No. That’s not how it works at all.

If they independently keep choosing CDBL (minus the automatic few in EB) next week the couple dozen commanders on CD might independently decide to deny FA points until you’re pushed out of the tier.

You’ve seen a couple of nights now what we can do when we feel motivated enough to make it happen. As I’ve said before this has been an escalating cycle of retaliation. FA’s big guilds and commanders need to look at this and ask themselves “is this the ceiling or can they do something even worse?”
From my perspective the smart move seems to be for red to always have or be pushing for at least one keep in IoJBL. Keep CD running mostly on pug power instead of concerted guild efforts with a specific FA priority.

buzzkapow.8465:

Actually, if IoJ was in first place, and CD was in second place, it makes perfect sense to go after CD for us. That way, you dont’ catch up. Seriously, it’s like CD is full of whiners who can’t handle a 3 way fight. We knew, and still know, that CD is the bigger threat than FA. Put your big boy pants on!

It’s not about spawn placements. It’s about going for the server that’s most likely to give you trouble. Especially when in first. Stop crying over being “double teamed”, because if you can’t hack it here in T3, you’ll be even more upset if you ever make it to T2.

Just because it didn’t happen last match, or the match before, or any match you’ve ever been in, doesn’t mean a thing. FA didn’t help CD try to take down IoJ the week we won? boo hoo, maybe they’re learning. Maybe they realize that by keeping the scores close, it’s their best chance of staying in T2. CD has some great players/guilds, but your forum warriors are starting to make you sound like a bunch of preteen emo kids. At least FA doesn’t come to the forums to whine…

It’s more that people just can’t stand bad excuses.
1. “Why you all up in CD’s grill all the time?”
2. “Cuz you 1st place and that’s how WvW should work.”
3. “Where was that attitude when we were in 3rd place?”

And then from there it’s mostly me posting walls of text about why we get hit first regardless of our score and then people loop back to #2 because I guess they’re just reading the most recent comments and don’t realize we’ve already gone over that.

Vigil.3408:

There are two major issues with this match-up that I’ve noticed over the past month.

As Arena Net refuses to remove Fort Aspenwood from this bracket I think it has to be said that our server (since GODS basically fell apart) has zero ability to fight against the numbers of IoJ and CD. As much as I don’t doubt the FA guys try (and god knows, I do too), we almost categorically have the outmanned buff which does 3/5ths of nothing to help.

To those of you who say IoJ and CD don’t have some unwritten law – you’re wrong. I’ve witnessed it several times in the EB Jumping Puzzle where CD and IoJ pass each other by like they’re best of friends, whilst I’ll walk in by myself and get slaughtered.

This is not fun. The retort to this kind of statement will inevitably be “then don’t play”, but that’s not the point of a “game”, is it. World vs. World can be a lot of fun, but this type of match up for the past 3 weeks is getting stale. You’ve proven for three weeks running Fort Aspenwood is the bottom of the pile. Congrats. Can we go now?

Perhaps. Knowing a little more about this meltdown of GODS might sate our bloodlust.

I request more information~

Kaiu.8153:

@Vigil

Just to be fair, I’ve seen groups of FA camp jumping puzzles killing everyone they see… Especially destroying individuals who have only reached halfway through the puzzle too… :P

The way servers took turns camping those just a few months ago I would be surprised if there weren’t still people that do that on every server. Unless you want to chart out exact times of day when players are camping the jumping puzzles you just seem to be complaining about the game working as intended.

LaMisT.1863:

CD likes to fight with the door open and walls down. maybe you missed it.

I remember that at FA garrison but did we do that at CDBL?

Altie.4571:

And I’m fairly certain that no matter who Blue is, Red will not be able to resist the urge and will continuously push umberglade/durios. Because it’s natural progression, it’s easier. Do I like it as a blue server right now? No, but I also don’t whine about it because I’d do the exact same thing.
Take the points where I can get them from.

I’m fairly certain that will decrease dramatically once CD is green, but we’ll see.

Aytrix.4059:

You must not have been online on Tuesday night.
-where IoJ moved-

That night the guild leaders from the CDesert alliance all decided to hand out some heavy beatings. Having all of our top players working on demolishing your zergs showed a lot of players that they would be crushed on any map they went to, and your server stayed demoralized until the fresh wave of players around midnight server time.

IoJ was sent reeling similarly early in the night but we mostly focused on the red borderland because you guys rub us the wrong way. Get your early morning oceanics and midday players in the IoJ section of the map a little more (I mean just look at all the keep caps they stole from you when they came to this tier,) and the CD commanders might turn their disintegrating gaze in that direction, or even focus on dragonbrand if the next most likely server matchup comes along a few weeks from now.

ryan.3915:

Kerithlan.1659:

I’d just like to interject on CD’s behalf here: Tarnished Coast is always full (and one of the first ones to fill up). Most of our population doesn’t participate in World vs World. I imagine the same is true of every server. Population means nothing for the top 15 servers. It’s a matter of getting some of that PvE population into WvW.

That’s a very good point. I have noticed that our dedicated commanders and WvWers weren’t around much in December (e.g. Titan War). They have since returned. My guildmates also preferred to PvE and participate in the festive events during that time.

That’s not to say that we don’t have transfers. A few guilds, such as GoF, have joined CD and they have been a much welcome addition to our WvW crew.

I also noticed an improvement in our defense. Fast responses to requests for help, and our people are splitting off into smaller groups to scout and to do smaller objectives than run with the main zerg. We have people who are willing to spring for siege weapons and upgrades. Also since the comments about commanders leading repairs – that is happening too.

That said, we still aren’t very subtle. We still have pugs who like to attack gates (despite being told not to), which alerts the other servers. Our elementalists could carry focuses for swirling winds to protect our siege. We could also do with more Mesmers, since the time warp skill helps tremendously when using siege. (e.g. in a group of 15 last night, there were only 2 mesmers).

Most siege skills have a cooldown, which makes timewarp useless on them. What time warp does help with would be golems and building siege sites.

Docherty.8372:

JPSnow.8296:

we already beat them 80% of the time when numbers are even

Delicious – IOJ whining about being the underdog… the worm turned folks.

Y’all keep telling yourselves that, make every excuse under the sun. CD massive knows it was done without any numbers advantage, just the hardest-fighting basterds in Tyria.

Personally I’d go with “that’s because when you start to lose most of your player base abandons WvW.”

Kman.7358:

JPSnow.8296:

Really then how did your server become full , guess must be arena net just trying to make you guys look bad sorry my mistake.

CD has been High/Full pop since day one. It was one of the first servers to fill on release, and has steadily remained that way.

What should be clear is that our server being full doesn’t equate to having huge populations in WvW. What actually shows our population would be the queues for each map, of which there are none.

That’s changed a bit this week as we’ve actually had a queue for CDBL, but that doesn’t even mean our numbers have grown so much as it indicates the level of pressure Red and Green are putting on our home border. I’m happy to have our folks defending or even just fighting on front lines that don’t so rapidly shift, but it would be nice to see the other servers at least consistently having small forces running around in each other’s borderlands. Instead the map just shows a breakout tower and rarely some group that circle capped the supply camps.

Zoel.9154:

-points for killing guards make up 25% of the score-

Nice to see you swinging around some ratings system kitten but killing guards isn’t the only source of those points. Go escort a yak to a tower and then keep and you’ll see the score jump each time it sticks its nose in the door portal.

However this objection about where points come from doesn’t change anything about how your score dials you in to a particular rating, unless you’ve been very obtuse about what you mean by “points.”

A: I thought we were talking about how having the higher “score” for a week could still mean your “rating” went down.
B: Maybe you mean holding more “locations” means having a lower “score” by the end of the week.

Please confirm which of those (or neither) you’re talking about so that we won’t have to talk past each other.

buzzkapow.8465:

JPSnow.8296:

Because cd is on top ATM makes more sense to get points from there…..

This! CD points are basically worth double right now, because we gain those point, and CD doesn’t. Stop complaining about your BL being the target. You’re #1, so you should be the target. Don’t like it? Try a game without 3 teams then.

Yeah, just like what happened when IoJ or TC was on top. Remember that?
…
me neither.

buzzkapow.8465:

Araliun.5024:

So guilds of IoJ and FA … ready to transfer to CD and take it to the next Tier? We have our sights set on Tier 2. Perhaps you do as well. SO maybe it’s time for a little server hopping. Message me if interested in discussing.

Well, there’s a public cross-server recruitment right there, from this very thread.

I see it as more of a joke at your expense. Guess it could be a legit request but you guys kind of don’t have anybody we’d want.

Well no, I should tone that down a bit: I don’t expect to get many worthwhile players or guilds transferring off of your server and onto ours.
-there, I wasn’t too much of a kitten about it that time right?-

buzzkapow.8465:

Deny what? What exactly am I denying? I’m not from FA btw. I was just pointing out that CD is publicly recruiting, and that the only people complaining about double teaming is CD. Which seems to work in your favour?

I can take another step into the light of reason here: most people are going to see a lot of confirmation bias for the people on their server being decent on the forums and the people from other servers being ridiculous.

I already barely remember any of the bad stuff CD players have done in this thread but anything bad from FA or IoJ is probably four times bigger to me than the way players from those servers experience them.

There’s also the little detail that you might see a lot of these players on your own map chat where they’re doing whatever goal oriented stuff that actually deserves some respect- you have some actual reason to dismiss bad behavior from some of the voices from your server while for people on other servers it’s entirely the kitten side they see.

fade.8603:

Another view is that CD’s defense is not as great as the other servers whereby there are scouts in their neglected BL and often theres not a single CD within camps towers to notify incoming attacks which make us an easier target compared to the other servers.

Compounding that problem is the response you get when you actually do take up that task- very slothful response from CD. It’s like they want to sit around at whatever they are attacking as a flame ram gets killed by defenses and then after that they’ll trickle over to defend a point.

If it is a keep then there is a little bit of a response but even spotting a golem rush out in the lake is not early enough notification for us to get a sizable defense force into the garrison before the lord is already dead.

I think this has lead to really frantic incoming calls in general for our server so even when we do rally together to fend off a push it doesn’t feel very good for anyone involved.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Also of note — Dragonbrand from Tier 4 is pulling ahead of that tier. It’s possible they’ll be pushing their way to Tier 3 if FA has a bad week.

That would be kind of sad, unless dragonbrand really feels the spirit of yak parades.
:partywhistle:

Ren.6351:

Anyway I’m not on FA so I have no idea what they are planning but this is just from my point of view, so we should just lay off all the insults and keep them within our server if you want to rage.

And.. goodnight

Actually yes, we keep them out of their garrison until our numbers dwindled last night because of what the guild leaders heard was being said on the forums. FA might consider reading over the last few pages and then chewing somebody out.

JPSnow.8296:

Fact cd has had a massive influx of players as they are only server now full in this tier. Saying that good on them any good server is trying to bring players to sever to either replace people leaving or make a push to higher teir. Now we just have to do the same, we already beat them 80% of the time when numbers are even just the gaps where no one is on they smash us and come bragging on the forums

Well if you’d like to give me a list of guilds that are interested in being killed by KH while they have a numbers advantage and what times they are available maybe we can work them into the schedule.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Reading the posts, I’m really not seeing a lot of FA whining about the zergs. We get swept out overnight at least once a week. But we’re still here.

For every 1 FA post about the ‘CD zerg’ I’m seeing 4 posts from CD getting defensive about it…

I think this whole thing is blown way out of proportion :P

Good fights today CD… We’ll be seeing you again tomorrow

I almost forgot that that dude called KH that.
Is trash talking a guild the same thing as other complaints about zerging?

“See you tomorrow.” Yeah, maybe you will.

Chaba.5410:

Raincrow.1840:

Same with the guys pretending KH isn’t a good guild, while they take your entire border land.

It’s just sour grapes.

Not difficult to take a borderland when the defenders are outmanned. Not something I’d brag about.

The key there is that we killed so many of you so fast that people switched maps or quit WvW for the night outright. As one point there was basically a bloody red carpet from hills to the camp north of it as we just cut down this constant stream of players. This big group retreating out of the keep once we showed up to boot them out of it and then probably the same players running back from spawn.

After that the last real resistance fled the map and we just had the small groups trying to stealth cap undefending points (before we rolled up behind them for more small red carpets through the snow.)

Saweth You Him.9047:

Shame there is a west coast bias to this game since they get the last caps in and theirs carry over night. 5000 point spread up until tuesday night. Our blowout(FA) came after eastcoast get up in the morning and go to work/school bedtime. But prior we definitely played more skillfully and with greater wisdom. Since things are pretty much settled I will see you again on Friday.

Until now we’d been hearing about the oceanic bias.

Folk.2093:

Araliun.5024:

Folk.2093:

The fact that KH talks crap is laughable; horrible guild with a large player base and no real talent besides overwhelming their opponent. I’ve seen them lose consistently with over twice the numbers of their opponents who are generally pugs. Honestly I feel bad for their members and their leadership should just uninstall for being so bad. When they first showed up they were a riot fighting, such easy badges, until the day their numbers massively inflated.

TLDR: lol-KH-lol

That’s a troll right there FOLK

Not trying to be honestly, everyone has their bad guilds and for CD KH is one of them. It’s just funny that they come out here thumping their chest like they’re somebody.

Your canned insult rings really hollow here though- KH specifically earned the respect of a lot of guilds running around in 15 man groups. We’ve got more players now but we’ve done a lot to keep the level of discipline and coordination high as we’ve grown.

The people who are more aware of what’s going on in combat (ever as much of a clusterkitten as it gets in large groups) will see that more’s going on.

oceansofmars.6894:

CD’s idea of winning is getting more transfers. If you cant beat us with skill then beat us with numbers?

Too bad, things are more enjoyable when server numbers are even. I lol at you!!

A: Cause you choose to have influxes of people, as a server. We vote on it then we just click their server transfer button for them.
B: It’s not server xfers brah. You might want to read the guild tags on these folks running into places- lots of people on your server have learned to because they give up after the entire CD alliance gets together and wipes them a few times.

Anyway, score update:

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

logged on to see FA at +85
we must’ve botched something really bad for this to happen o.O

Basically all the guild leaders on CD alliance teamspeak decided that we let you guys run rampant in our borderland for too long.
Now the question is how low will we push the green tally?

Raincrow.1840:

Hekatombaion makes a good point about CD’s defense. Even in EB, our defensive tactics are too reactionary, and so we’re never prepared. Maybe there isn’t as much percieved reward for defending, but I find XP / Badges come quick during a long defense.

I think if we defended more (something I love doing myself) our pug players would better understand how to do it.

Without any way to speed up the repel attackers event it’s not obvious to a lot of new players that the rewards are so steep. Same way nobody understands the exciting combat that goes on if you escort yaks on the front line with just a few players.

Folk.2093:

-canned insult-

Lol, you’re funny.

Darknicrofia.2604:

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

logged on to see FA at +85
we must’ve botched something really bad for this to happen o.O

CD golem rushed FA’s fully upgraded and supplied keep in under 5 mins in EB.

I think that one was Titan War.

Kitten, now I feel like I should have kept a tally of the keeps KH blitzed tonight. The counts getting pretty high but while you guys have your garrisons the count might still go higher.

Blrrgh.6908:

You missed my point completely. Also, there isn’t anything in my comment about moving up in rating. The rest of your response to me is basically a ramble about FA and CD outnumbering you,( which is amusing to say the least. CD slightly outnumbers IoJ, and we outnumber FA somewhat, off of their peak times) and “who deserves what”.
Try to take the time to read and understand what is written.

I try to be kind of server neutral so people recognize that I’m talking to everyone but I’m on CD and don’t make it completely unknown.

I’ll decipher my comment for you: T3 is a good matchup for IoJ, but we are probably going to drop further down in ranking even if we win, which means the system is bonkers.

So you’ve confirmed that you don’t think about this much.

Let’s decipher ratings for you-
You think it’s ridiculous if winning (1st place) means your rating goes down.
This indicates that you think the rating would have to go down for servers in 3rd place and have to go up for servers in 1st place. Play this out in your head for a few rounds and you’ll see that under such a system one of our servers would have to eventually swap places with TC, even if they were only 1k behind those other servers week after week.

So instead of “win means points up lose means points down” the system tries to actually dial you into a rating that shows how good you are compared to other servers. “Winning” is not the measure of your rank. “How many points you get in what tier” is the measure of your rank.

This is not news anyway, the ranking system is designed for static entities, not GW2 servers with radical population shifts every 3 weeks.

A: This doesn’t have any connection to “I won so my points should go up.”
B: Actually this system is very well tuned for that. Your rating is supposed to change if you get better (even if that’s not due to skill increase.) If you get a bigger score in a week then the system will dial you in to a higher rating than it was dialing you in to before.

But instead of that you seem to be complaining that it dials you in at all. If you think your rating should have to go up no matter what for a win then you don’t really want a system that dials you in to your actual rating relative to the other servers- you want one that matches people up haphazardly when they’re very poorly matched. You’re asking for something that’s worse than what we have.

buzzkapow.8465:

There is no double teaming going on! There is no secret alliance! Here’s how it works:

CD is currently winning. FA and IoJ are not playing for 2nd. We are all playing for first. How to get there? Put pressure on #1. Congratulations, you just figured out WvW!! If we’re not attacking FA, or vice versa, it’s because we’re trying to cut your lead down. This was the way 3way fights are supposed to be played. And it’s been fun!

Except that that doesn’t happen. We’d have had a split this even if CD and FA had hit TC any of those weeks. We’d have had a very even split if FA had pressured the lead when IoJ was in 1st. We had an uneven split this week with CD taking a wide lead (for Friday) but both servers have spent a majority of their time in our borderland and stopped that gap from growing.

Kind of a significant difference, and very striking for the people that wanted this to happen against TC. What’s clear is that “fighting for 1st/2nd” are not the motivators that actually set up who gets attacked.

I’d still agree that it’s (at least mostly) not any kind of arranged double team. More of a path of least resistance thing.

-

Another thought on FA retaliating: at least with what KH does to the stuff you hold you’re not really managing to retaliate against us. Maybe in a “I’m going to beat up your little brother” way.

We’re kind of a small target only having the death ball going during prime time a few nights a week. Tighten up your game to try and match us on those nights if you want revenge I guess…
No. I just don’t think the FA and IoJ guilds can pull that off. The way that KH rolls over you it too different from how you play on our off days. Your only viable option is going to be to find out dedicated members that run gank squads and roll upgrades around the maps, but picking them off with a zerg is probably too unproductive for your actual score.

MuffinMan.3285:

Kincaidia.3192:

I and the small guild I’m a part of (usually a 4 or 5 man) have been exclusively playing on IoJ borderland trying to hold a defense. Sadly, IoJ in general and the larger, zerg-ier guilds, such as DRGN in particular, seem to be completely allergic to proactively defending most days, so it’s always a struggle just to keep camps capped and siege refreshed.

Well for one Drgn usually does jump back to IoJ if its in trouble….in fact we did it tonight. We left CD bl because bay was being trebbed by CD so we came in and cleaned up, while this was going on FA ninjed hills and drgn when and took it back before the tick. Drgn is usually the guild that responds to IoJ bl when its in trouble.

That being said, have the BL in trouble means a large invader force. with fully upgraded keeps you should need a larger guild to come in and save the day, they are put to better use in the other BL’s getting us points.

I get the impression that by proactive defense they mean more than coming in during the hour of darkness to clean up the home map.

Raincrow.1840:

I also wonder what will happen if FA takes the lead. Will IOJ switch focus, and attack them?

No. You can’t really get a zerg to ninja something in IoJ BL before they’ve got defenders in it and their pugs actually know how to operate mortars. Seems like a small difference but the number of people they need to defend a tower is the same number where CD pugs decide it’s hopeless and run away (or just try to duck in and out of the door portals until they get locked down and killed pointlessly.)

Because of this kind of thing if you were to attack every point on their map simultaneously (around 3 times as many people attacking as they needed to just see every important direction + sit on the key siege,) IoJ could still have a big enough offense group to go take all the camps and possibly both towers with some of our pugs defending them.

Trebuchets are generally the factor that stops a small group from holding an built up tower against anything less than the entire server worth of players bearing down on it.
On CD we seem to think that the quartermaster upgrades are all there is to beefing up a tower so we regularly let all the arrows carts and ballista time out, as if we can always afford to just built them straight out of the tower supply depot.

Given how little we focus on defense it’s generally not worth the trouble to ration tower supply, since we’re just going to lose it as soon as they catch on that we took the defenders out, but it shouldn’t be like that.

Note: our server seems a bit short on elementalists but those of you that are in WvW should block trebuchet shots all-the-kitten time. I’m a bit dumbstruck when I go to maps where we’re under heavy pressure and there aren’t any elementalists actively denying trebuchet operators.
Plus for the long shots like garrison-to-bay you could be down there blocking shots until they zero in on guards and then let them trebuchet an NPC thinking they are hitting a wall until they actually send somebody over to check on it. That kind of thing feels great but nobody ever explores those kinds of uses for their skills.

Blrrgh.6908:

Deathdom.8250:

This matchup is beyond perfect. The scores are all so close, even IOJ, who is last right now, has a good shot at 1st place. None of us has a chance of going up into T2 while the T2 servers won’t be dropping down any time soon. As for T4, DB is in the same position as TC in the past. They will win for sure but will not be moving up any time soon. In other words, we will be fighting each other for quite a while longer.

If only, however the f’d up ELO/Glicko system will punish IoJ severely for not winning by 2 trillion points in every matchup below T1. We were losing double digits in rating even while we were winning. As much as it would be fun to hang out in T3 it just is not realistic if we do not win every week, and if we were able to win by the amount of points w need to stay afloat in rating it would not be fun for the other 2 servers. Lose/lose/lose situation.

Why would you think that managing a 30k lead over the other servers should mean you are fit enough for the next tier? Why would you think even having a 50k lead over the other servers would mean that you don’t belong in your current tier?

If there’s not some exodus of players off of a server above you then to get into the next tier you need to be better than the server that last moved up there. You need to be better than a server that had 100k leads over you for a month or lead you by 200k points at least two weeks in a row. To move up you need to be better than a server that pushed you out of your home borderland time and time again.

Just look at the matchup for tier two for a moment and recognize that TC is in third place. This is the server that made both FA and CD whine like a kitten because they outnumbered us even when we had a queue and we really knew that they had exactly as many players on the map as we did. This is the server that only needed one guild to decide to obliterate FA all week long because some guild they had never seen before set up a ballista to butcher some yaks that were shooting off fireworks.

You think that by being so much less powerful than them that you deserve to be above them in the ranking? That there aren’t gaps just as wide in the level of competition between ever tier?

Or do you just not think before you complain? If I’ve hit the nail on the head there then you’re like most people on forums, but hopefully you learned something just now.

kylia.4813:

Score update anyone?
:)

daocvet.3524:

I would really not be patting myself on the back to much there slick, you guys really dont have much to be proud of, you guys cant gain any ground in CD bl unless you wait until we are fighting both realms at once and I dont mean just at more than one area, I am talking about FA and IOJ fighting side by side against our twrs and keeps. You can deny it all you want but I have witnessed it at our twr and garrison.

The thing I find strange is how this is exactly how you could have demolished TC’s zergs. A difference is that it wouldn’t have worked quite so fast against them, so I’m a bit disheartened to see us doing what TC did but worse. I thought all that time we spent plummeting through tiers and clawing our way back up would get us more of the groups that just need a few players to sabotage the enemy or who role over their zergs with half as many players.

But it takes clear communication and that goes away as you get a lot of players. It takes discipline but once your elite 10-30 players gain enough infamy the guild recruits flow in too fast to get them all up to speed and soon you can just beat people with numbers anyway.

Kincaidia.3192:

And not at all like when we (IoJ) were in the midst of a 3 hour defense at Bay from CD and then FA takes the opportunity to golem-rush hills.

It happens. Put on your big girl panties and keep going.

I don’t think they’re so much saying that getting attacked by both other teams is that big of a deal, but rather that we’ve been watching you ignore other maps for days while you have things like one server after our garrison and the other sitting at the other side of it not laying down siege so much as just blocking our players from getting in to defend, or having an idle FA zerg playing door blocker for an IoJ tower. Day after day both servers spend the same hours in our borderland and I see these kinds of weird moves from FA that just seem to be about stopping our pugs from fighting back against IoJ (after the FA zerg has been killed once or otherwise lost their forward momentum.) Maybe this is only the afternoon players but this looks as blatant as an alliance could get without trying to get the two zergs right next to each other on the field to swing their sticks at some gate.

It’s fun for the elite guilds since it just means more lootbags but it really castrates the pugs to see that the other servers are cease fire on each other like that.

I can see why FA would favor this- we’ve had a cycle of large scale retaliations where certain CD players decide to just stomp them down over some perceived slight, and presumably something similar on their end.

…except that I suspect there’s nothing like it on their end. They tend to roll around our borderland more often because it’s much easier to capture points there, and with server populations being what they are if they go to the other borderland as soon as they draw any attention most of the players on that server are going to show up in one big ball and demolish them for it- even if IoJ doesn’t send excessive numbers to deal with that FA is still probably conditioned to it from all that time spent against TC.

So the afternoon pugs on FA are stuck on whatever map was already going except on the occasion that GODS decides to do something else, but that guild seems to prefer CD border for the same reason the pugs do.
Note: Derv the Monkinator likes negotiating alliances with commanders on other servers for some reason, so some CD commander could probably get FA out of our border if they don’t have too much pride and really care more about points than dominating foes.

This means CD has largely been doing drive by shootings to FA that don’t impact the actual players that matter. If we want to do this hit squad thing to actually show them that they should spend some time on the IoJ border then we need some later-morning players to really abuse the FA map an decimate their infantry.

It is a week time of day for us as I hear it, and definitely not in the hours I play, so if anyone could send me some in game mail about commanders and guilds that are around at that time I’d love to give them a small arsenal to wreak mayhem with.

WIGZ.8245:

appledainty.8127:

Team Dolyak [DOLY], hosts a weekly event known as the Yak Parade. It is a three-server wide celebration of Dolyaks and Fun. It is a nice break from the usual WvW business. You need to join the guild to get the time/date/location of that week’s event, and the guild provides free transformative tonics for those who want to transform into dolyaks or othersuch creatures.

Our goal is to make a loop around the entire map and then have an epic battle.

Here are some screencaps from our last, and very successful, Yak Parade:
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l90/handymidgit/yakkington_zps2b5fdff8.jpg

We currently have no members from IoJ and only a few from FA. So I would like to encourage everyone to bring themselves and their guildies to the yak parade. All are welcome. If you require an invite, please send me a mail in game. My username is Ellehnia.

Bring your fireworks. Bring your booze. Turn into a dolyak and run freeeee! Free as the wiiiiind blows.

<3 Ellie

I’ll be there to farm Dolyak meat. PvP in a PvP zone.

You’ll have to face down a flock of plush griffons first!

MuffinMan.3285:

couldn’t have said it better, you have no ioj members because we go to wvw to kill…not walk dress up as draft animals.

And that is probably the reason TC pushed you rout of tier two.

Probably definitely.

Really though, the Yak parade is a fun time to kitten off when the match is basically over. If there’s not a wider gap in the scores by the end of the week I could see wanting to keep playing seriously but with score out of the way all you’ve got is looking for challenging fights and scooping up loot bags. Buncha ruminants aren’t going to make for an interesting fight and you’re not going to get a lot of loot compared to actual fights where players will run back and die multiple times for you.

Which leaves the unlisted option: you’re actually into parades. See you there~

Riddickk.7091:

All Im seeing is IOJ videos, any from FA/CD perspective? I know you guys got to have some epic fights on video….

I’ve been leaving my settings too high to run video capture during any of the KH stomps. Some of the other members might be making something soon (I’d like to rewatch our lurking under the bridge last night before we took Anzalia’s out from under those golems.)

TokenTrevor.2563:

Hectoncheir.4210:

So… How does it feel to be transmuted into loot bags, [GODS] of Fort Aspenwood?

I thought this was a “no bragging allowed” zone?

“Keep it clean
Keep it civil
Stay on topic
Be responsible
Share your knowledge
Report posts for removal if they violate these standards”

There’s more to the code of conduct but I didn’t see anything relevant to bragging. I might have missed some moderator post relevant to it but of the ones I have seen they basically summarize as “we encourage some rivalry, but get too vicious about it.”

So in that light, tonight was not a good night for GODS.
or Pro.
or AoN.
or UA.

Gotta say though, the squid looks good on stonemist.

Raincrow.1840:

Hekatombaion.4320:

The mindset “we’re going to kick the kitten of people on other servers, and when they outnumber us to boot” was what I was talking about. I can’t fathom any way for you to miss that except by not kittening reading my post.

Is there any further confusion you would like me to spell out answers for in the most direct of terms?

The “confusion” comes from the FACT that you QUOTED ME asking why someone would brag about not caring about their own server. You answered.“Actually I appreciate that mindset”…… That’s your words, exactly….. You said “THAT MINDSET”, as in the one you quoted.

If you didn’t appreciate the mindset I was talking about, why did you quote me? Now you come in here and talk down to me, but it’s not my fault you flip flopped.

In the future, if you don’t want to cause confusion with your comments, you might want to try to follow the context of the discussion going on.

And you quoted them talking about killing groups larger than themselves. I talked about killing groups larger than your own. You didn’t read my post or really pay any attention past that one line. Why would you defend that kind of behavior? Do you really mean to say that I can’t use quotes and multiple sentences to convey a concept? That anything you can’t get out of a single headline is automatically confusing?

If I only said “that mindset” and then ended there then you’d be fully in the right to complain this way, but I already explained what I was talking about when I quoted you the first time, and every subsequent time. You’ve had to actively work to talk past me for this long, and now that I’ve made that impossible you’re still just angry about it.

Congratulations?

Raincrow.1840:

Hekatombaion.4320:

Come now, I never said any such thing. Every word after “mindset” clarified how I was specifically not talking about that part of their attitude

I still don’t see what there is to appreciate about the mindset; “we don’t care about the server we’re playing on.”

Nothing.

The mindset “we’re going to kick the kitten of people on other servers, and when they outnumber us to boot” was what I was talking about. I can’t fathom any way for you to miss that except by not kittening reading my post.

Is there any further confusion you would like me to spell out answers for in the most direct of terms?

That’s just the impression from the opening night but either way we seem to have a lot of players that aren’t usually in WvW with us, while IoJ has perhaps their weakest showing yet.

Whatever the case I hope they figure out how to play soon. When we’re actually threatened they seem to be a serious impediment for CD.

GuardianOMS.8067:

Okay, thank you very much for your insight. I wasn’t aware of any Asian holidays (i tend to lose track of even the American ones), but yeah, the sizes seemed to be lacking. Good to see you got some new people too! Oh, you’re KH? Are you the guild that was on EBay and are infamous for portaling around your guys? I hated fighting you guys but it was a good kind of hate. The “omg wtf I just got portal bombed by 15 guys and now they’re gone” kind of hate. Looking forward to some good fights!

The new year is a big deal in Japan apparently. China? Korea? Evidently Australians play right through it~

No, we’ve been crystal desert since the original eight man group first colonized the Tyrian wastes. Few hours either side of midnight server time is our main operating time and a number of the guilds that transfer here list the beatings we handed out as one of their reasons for choosing the server.

These days it seems we can’t take two steps without tripping over internet videos where guilds like avatar went and spliced together the blooper reel when we make somebody perform in roles they’re not familiar with or are midway through developing some new tactic…

Raincrow.1840:

Hekatombaion.4320:

Actually I appreciate that mindset, especially…..
beating 13ish with 7 and then another 12ish in the same combat is still decent.

Decent enough to come on here and brag about it? That’s funny.

What’s not funny is then admitting you don’t even care about the server you’re playing on.

Come now, I never said any such thing. Every word after “mindset” clarified how I was specifically not talking about that part of their attitude.

Myros.4675:

Quite sad to see someone from FA asking IoJ to gang up on CD earlier on in this thread :P

Actually the guild leader of GODS asked for the same thing when we CD first moved into the tier. As 2nd and 3rd place actually showed interest in attacking TC early into that week everyone assumed he had that alliance and the thread spiraled with into kitten town.

Roborovskii.7635:

The daily dose of threesome fun!

Ouch, that fiasco last night must have really hurt our spirit. Borderland had a long queue so we couldn’t go experience it first hand, but it sounds like our fresh transfers spent the night getting farmed

Mif.3471:

I thought I had seen every stupidity imaginable in WvW until I saw AoN, a guild from FA, in CD’s borderlands.

They had 15+ players that didn’t cap or own a single thing on the map, and just zerged to anything with swords. In effect they did nothing but defend CD’s towers and keeps for hours on end.

Maybe they are trying to push us up into tier 2?

Bluh, we’ve not nearly spread the better play styles information around enough for that yet. With enough xfers onto our server we might not get dominated but I really wouldn’t want to have to mess with blackgate when my guild didn’t have big raids going on.

Raincrow.1840:

Convenant.7092:

HAHA! we farmed both CD and IoJ so hard… it was so fun, thanks for all the loot and fun. We enjoy making people grief, but please do have your facts straight.. there was 7 of us repeatedly wiping 25+ of you. We don’t care about CD, nor do we care about FA, nor do we care about IoJ. We just kill stuff.

I don’t understand why somone would come onto the forums and tell everyone they don’t care about their own server, they just want loot, as if it’s something to brag about.

And why is a Magoooma player in this thread defending what they did in the first place?

Actually I appreciate that mindset, especially when it comes from seven people that were wiping 25. War commander map strategy is one thing but you need some actual muscle on the 5-10 player scale if you want WvW to be more interesting than herding cats around a map.

That those 25 were fighting each other instead of a unified force against the 7 lessens it a bit, but beating 13ish with 7 and then another 12ish in the same combat is still decent.

GuardianOMS.8067:

Nothing, apparently. Because you apparently still can’t see anything past what you think it is. So continue to believe it’s trolling. I will continue to correct anything people say, but you’re free to piece the puzzle together.

Anyway, it’s just funny how someone counts 7 people as 15+, 45mins as hours, and not capping anything when a tower and supply camps were taken. It really speaks for the kind of mentality the person has. Hope that’s not a widespread thing.

Oh it’s all bible counting in the threads. 30 people just killed you? Compliment their 50 man wrecking ball on the forums. They got into the garrison with six alpha golems? Talk about how sick their omega golem force was.

If we didn’t know the unit cap on maps you’d see even crazier numbers. Players hate the idea that an equal sized group is beating them when they can blame being outnumbered, so much so that they even refuse to remember what they actually saw with their own eyes.

Raincrow.1840:

The argument was over already, all you did was let the Magoooma troll off easy.

FYI stopping criticizing trolls on forums isn’t exactly “punishment” to them. If it’s somewhere that links to their real name (facebook perhaps?) then they might suffer a little bit socially for behaving like a dick. This venue? Best you can hope for is that they get themselves suspended/banned- but bickering with them is as much you breaking the rules as them (if at all.)

GuardianOMS.8067:

Now that the advantage is slightly cut, it looks like you think a lot more tactically rather than just “bash heads here.” That or your oceanic presence has dropped, because for some reason I had a hard time locating big zergs the size of what we’ve seen during that time.

Our oceanic presence diminished as the new year approached. We heard some claims that guilds has xfered but no specific details. Asian holidays should be over right about now so give it awhile.

As for tactics you’re probably seeing more that that due to the Aussie presence on IoJ that actually resists. Can’t really blame people for rolling a katamari all over the map when there aren’t enough people to even slow it down.

RyuDragnier.9476:

This is getting ridiculous. I think they need to redo this tier system, because at this rate we might have a full month of battles between the three of our servers. XD

This is bad because???
You understand that with an elo based matchmaking system and a pool of twenty opponents that you’re actually supposed to be against the same servers forever* right?
*Unless one of you actually gets much better.

If you think two weeks is enough time to exhaust the interesting fights between servers then you’re missing a whole level of guild vs guild combat that goes on in these things. Three months isn’t long enough to exhaust that because those groups are actually trying to get into each other’s heads and not only bring more people to fights to crush them but rather figure out how to do it with fewer people.

If instead you want to be matched with much more random opponents so that a lot of the time you win just because you were already better than them, then go play sPvP.

WIGZ.8245:

The worst part of WvWvW is the fact that entire zerg’s don’t load till it’s too late. I should’ve had FRAPS on tonight, an entire group literally appeared after 20 FA’ers were downed. High Pop will just become more zerg, and every other server either gains or just gives up. TC was bad. CD and IoJ aren’t nearly as zergy as that f* server.

We zerg pretty hard on CD when we don’t have the specific guilds out in force (or even when we’ve only got one guild/commander going so that the pugs don’t have anywhere else to go.)

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Very disappointed in CD.

Fortunately I’m on my thief and thief’s never die so I just used shadow refuge to run out of combat and waypoint away.

For shame CD, for shame. Where’s your sense of fun?

I get that this isn’t a serious post but fighting a thief 1v1 is playing the game wrong.

Surviving against a thief 1v1 shouldn’t be too difficult for any build that hasn’t thrown survivability to the wind, but to actually introduce the possibility of death for the thief… don’t 1v1. I kill bad thieves that don’t know what they’re doing all the time 1v1 but if you know the first thing about running away then no. At best I convince them to leave and go attack somebody else.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

And of course, how silly of me for thinking a 1 v 1 is “fair”

Still know you’re trolling btw.

But no, the combat in GW is team composition. Combo fields and finishers give you a couple of tools solo but the actual tool kit where your allies finish in those fields specifically gears the game for groups fighting groups. When a run away build escapes a fight they leave they tend to leave the melee classes to die, so your team is often worse off because you decided to be something that could escape fights instead of contributing to it.

We see a lot of that in WvW right now though because people try to play without any of the back work of group compositions. People want to roll like a single player in a multiplayer game and they suck because of it.

But hey, there aren’t so many people that actually know how to do group combat well right now so there’s no obvious penalty for this kind of play style. Gonna be a different story as people beyond the elite guilds start using even just blob tactics though.

Elite Slasher.3561:

Great fights today in FABL CD. You guys were very pretty persistent and really wanted to take our Hills. I admire you spirit. Looking forward to more great fights as week continues. You guys seem to grow in numbers each day though. I think CD have more WvW population than FA and IoJ combined at least at times I am on. But we do like to be underdogs. I personally would rather beat 10 players with 5 than vise versa. We may loose week after week but we will surely put up a good fight. That all that matter to me. GL and see you guys on Battlefield.

We definitely have had more population than FA most of the time. You guys seemed really bipolar about that though- almost a smash and grab then log off thing.

IoJ has had really weak showing on a few Fridays now but I think that their fairweather players have come over to CD now. It’s actually frustrating having queues that stop us from hopping the really baller players around between maps now. Then again it will be good for some of our commanders to have to learn how to handle situations where our zergs get farmed.

I’d worry that they will become demoralized but we’ve done some thoroughly demoralizing stuff to your commanders so I’m sure it will even out.

It is -kind of- that easy. They haven’t built the engine to load the name plates separately from the player models and without expecting that to be an issue they might have an absolutely terrible structure in the engine for teasing the two apart.

That said it’s kind of terrible to not anticipate something like this issue and set it up so that you can definitely make a change like this with relatively minor development pain to go with it. If any of you folks in WvW ever find yourselves producing MMOs you should definitely think about having something like an independent nameplate that can load before the character model does. If you’ve got the time in testing also figure out what kind of server load starts causing strange behaviors like this and make sure everyone in charge knows how badly the engine fails if you up the values from what you actually tried in the stress tests.

Kinglette.4906:

After this long people still cry about double teaming. There are no double teams just time both your enemies are pushing.
If you haven’t seen FA pushing IOJ then I suggest opening your map more often. Last night both FA and CD controlled their bl and were pushing IOJ (as you should, everyone should always push the top team)
I am enjoying this week win or lose and look forward to killing you tonight and next week

Not always, but frequently to be sure. If the score stays like this both teams should push CD that much more often just to keep us on our toes- presumably until one of you is ahead on points. In prior threads I’ve said more than enough about why many weeks end up playing out very differently though.

Cogbyrn.7283:

JPSnow.8296:

Now this is no slag against fa I think you guys have some of the best defence around just need to be more aggressive.

The hilarious part about this comment is that we struggled against TC/YB because we were too aggressive and didn’t defend enough, as they were prehistoric turtlesaurus. It was a working strategy, so it’s no sleight, but the fact that suddenly we’re the defensive world is amusing to me.

I am kind of confused about how we’ve managed to take the lead in points with the kind of defense CD regularly displays. I guess we’re better at defending wood keeps than fully upgraded ones?

Safir.9203:

Then you need the players who are respected on your server (sometimes including your better commanders) to lead by example and model the behavior you want to see from others. After all, why should your world’s players be willing to forgo fun if the people asking for them to stay behind can’t be bothered to stick around…?

That’s a problem when the behavior is “splitting up” though. The best way I can come up with to advertise it is “There’s only 2 of us repairing this gate” but I’ve seen that even when commanders want something repaired it’s everyone or no one doing it with them.

When they actually recognize the importance of defending a location they end up forced to sit passively in a tower just so people will stay there instead of leaving it empty. There’s just no way for a commander to tell players “don’t be where I am” and have them listen- I’ve sat in listening to them coordinate who’s going to turn the tag on or off and when just to try and get pugs to station themselves in sane locations while the players on teamspeak do smaller objectives that aren’t worth the time they take if it means marching the entire server over there to do it.

-

Escorting yaks with just two or four people is actually something I only really see the big guilds doing in their off time*, yet actually one of the only ways to do an objective that doesn’t actually need huge numbers for. It’s also not the actionless task that a lot of newer players expect either- you get to fight a lot of thieves and mesmers who don’t have much backup or sneaky terrain options when they come to gank them. You don’t get this with every single yak obviously but anybody can haste those things to get that much more supply into keeps (and did you know that you get score points when they drop off supplies? Get these things in when you’re not feeling like rolling around in a zerg for top score folks!)

Mif.3471:

wombat.6123:

IOJ’s golem rush

So a bunch of players, with clearly no WvW experience, decided they were going to buy some golems, thinking that would give them god mode. The inevitable happened and they failed miserably.

And you take that as an opportunity to sling mud at IoJ’s dedicated WvW playerbase?
The amount petty rubbish that comes out of some people here is astonishing.

Is a bit of respect and sportsmanship too much to ask?

Actually he didn’t say anything dirty about your server, only that people from it were piloting those golems. Seeing as he quoted a post that said there was a lot of variation in the setup of said rushes depending on who’s involved this is kind of the least mud slinging of the IoJ server he could possibly do without acting like he couldn’t tell what color the players were.

These particular players? Bad. IoJ golem rushes with experienced players? Good enough that we seem to have trouble waypointing fast enough to stop you capping keeps undefended.

Ohoni.6057:

Maybe they need to provide better rewards for certain behaviors.

Actually they used to give you event rewards for getting dolyaks through but the early bots would just walk with the yak to automatically get the rewards (and they didn’t have any reaction for if the yak got attacked.) Then people found out they could just idle over the gate.

I’m hoping the February update adds some kind of event to dolyak escorting.
Seems like they could do some events where it just counts your “contribution” in hastes applied to the yak, players killed near it, or maybe heals applied to the yak. Similar events could pop up for walls that are damaged for how much supply you put into them, events for fixing the walls after the “repel attackers” events are over, etc.

selan.8354:

yo CD person please have some respect as FA has been defending itself all the time.We have been zerged by both servers at the same time. And we were able to hold up quit ewell, so i’d appreciate a little respect in the forums. we might not have the numbers but we still fight hard , fair and good!

TBH something about the choices your server makes in attacking earns you grudges. I can’t quite put my finger on it but every time we’ve tried to focus on the green players it isn’t long before there’s this strong urge to just pummel you for the rest of the week. Not so much me personally as I’d love to stay in the emerald border all week but a lot of the people I play with end up convinced you’ve player extra dirty before the halfway point in these matches.

This week seems to have been the exception even though you’re probably out in consistently bigger numbers than you have been for weeks.

Ohoni.6057:

Oh, that doesn’t seem right to me, considering how rapidly those things can destroy a base’s defenses, they shouldn’t be so easy to set up, I think. Like you shouldn’t be able to pull materials from one map to get a head start on another. I guess that’s my major design issue with WvW in this game, it seems very difficult to hold anything for any length of time, most sites take a lot of time and effort to upgrade or put down roots, but only minutes to collapse complete from a concentrated effort.

I don’t think that zergs should be able to function like a Tsunami, just sweeping across a map in under an hour and laying waste, but rather it should be a deliberate process, in which it’s very difficult to take location C without first securing and entrenching locations A and then B. Often that seems to be the way it works, but there are apparently some mechanics that allow for all that to collapse in a heap.

They kind of can’t.
Well I mean obviously they do. It’s just that if you watch CD make a bunch of golems and take them somewhere we only have a fairly slim chance of taking one keep with them, much less all the keeps on a map. It’s fairly easy to recognize “oh they saw us at point x” or “oh they had 3+ arrow carts (you can’t really tell them apart after that) behind walls.”

There are a lot of defensive tactics that CD just isn’t picking up. I’ve seen a few of us doing them, generally coordinated guilds, but we’ve got fairly large gaps between those when it’s just a commander running around with whoever they could scrape together.

In large part I think a lot of our commanders have just stopped trying to do defensive work because when they do tell people to run supplies to repair a gate there’s only two players doing it. Not all of the time of course, but for really large parts of the day our player base just won’t do anything but lump all the commanders together and go pound on a tower while our garrison is falling. I’ve personally taken sentry duty on the water gate when we see highly telegraphed golem preparations and then when I finally sound the alarm people wait a full minute before they waypoint and get nearly to the outer gate before the keep lord flipped. It’s slightly better if four people could be bothered to stick around refreshing siege and watching the other gates but that’s still not enough time to get people to the keep to defend it against that many golems.

The other servers? They keep people in the keep at times like that and they just kill all the golems before they break through the first door. At least some of us on CD know how to, but most of the time we just don’t.

MuffinMan.3285:

3) Our players enjoy or organization for WvW, a lot of people are calling our guild “trash” but I doubt those players have faced us when were in full swing, and the players have some one leading them (not just people left over form the nightly raid that wanna have fun as in the red lake incident)

I wanted to avoid saying this right on the heels of people calling you trash but when I’ve seen large groups of players all with your tag you die on the field before we’ve even had the reason to use fancy maneuvers. If I saw you trying to take bay from IoJ you were also fairly ineffective there, but my memory of that isn’t sharp enough to be sure that was your guild.

MuffinMan.3285:

well larger forces have been destroyed using the choke points in a tower

Speaking of, holy hell that was a lot of loot bags in the longview tower last night. I went in with my bags cleared out (as much as usual anyway,) but by the end I probably had a small arsenal laying on the ground while I just kept picking up stackable items.

Hey Ohoni, you needed FABL bay right? Go get it. You’re welcome.
Also FA Overlook on EB: 12:50 server time.
Longview FABL: 1:43 server time.

Really?
e: Was in the north camp while it flipped. If we actually exploited it, sorry.

Ohoni.6057:

They make much cheaper weapons that make your footsteps glow or that have trails of skybox or that coat you in liquid metal? I’ve been keeping an eye on my options and haven’t seen any so far.

That’s not intrinsic value. That is an effect. That effect says “I have done everything in this game.” That is the point of it looking fancy.

It has two very important things to do with you.
A: You refuse to change servers.
B: You don’t log on during our strongest hours.

Which would be? I’ve logged in early in the morning, mid afternoon, late afternoon, late at night, later at night, just before dawn,[/quote]Those words mean nothing to me. Use server time please.

If people are interested in WvWing then that’s what they will be doing, if not, they won’t.

I like running the dungeons with players that can do so coordinated. I don’t run dungeons very often because I don’t know I’m going to get that. Without a WvW guild I would not WvW very often because I wouldn’t know if we had strong groups or if it was going to be five of us trying to hold off fifty enemies. I certainly wouldn’t know when I could be of a lot of use to my team or when we had already had our morale broken.

that I am in no way “trolling,” I’m trying to, as Hekatombaion might say, “motivate” some people to take WvW seriously
[/quote]
Like hell you are. You’re whining so much I can barely stand it and I almost want to avoid the points I know you need because of it. If this is how you motivate people you would be better off keeping your mouth shut.

kylia.4813:

Score update for us stuck at work anyone?

Too lazy to take two shots, but IoJ has everything but a tower and two camps on their border.

I haven’t thought about it for at least a month but I regularly get level 60 rewards for killing actual level 80 characters. The random animals around the map actually drop mats rather consistently and the level 82 guards aren’t really difficult kills when unmolested by players so you can get some nice farm on that way.

The only actual reward I get from killing players specifically would be badges and the intrinsic value of “I just beat a horde of sentient beings that were trying to stop me.”

If I want money in WvW my only option is to roll with a zerg that is trying to speed cap a bunch of points in a map before defenders show up. It ends up being enough money to buy a lot of the smaller upgrades but I can’t imagine I would hit drop reduction like that.