Guild Wars 2

Sang.3641:

Frostfang.5109:

I don’t like this idea at all as my PET companion is what makes the ranger unique!

You would still have a graphical representation of your pet just “spiritified” and it would still pull off its special attack. So in essence you have a pet just a different sort and I posted above:
“For people who really want a physical pet they can drop a trait in a talent line that allows our pets to manifest as physical entities while we get a dmg% reduction while the pet is manifested.”

While I don’t think this is a bad idea for a new game where there aren’t already preconceptions about class roles, it’s too late for something like this in GW2. It would certainly work much better mechanically, and much of the support is from us Rangers drooling over the massive DPS (and overall power increase) we’d get as a result of this change.

However, we have to remember when making suggestions that just because a change would make us more powerful and consistent, doesn’t mean it’s good for the game as a whole. Despite the fact that Rangers are the weakest class, they’re also the most played class (at least that’s what I heard). Many players don’t care about the power level, they just want a ranged class w/pet.

Even if you could trait to let the pet attack, it wouldn’t be the same. For one thing, new players wouldn’t have access to this, and those expecting a real pet would be disappointed by the spirits. Many of them might reroll or quit before getting enough trait points, or even knowing trait points exist. The other problem is that this trait would be a blatant power decrease, unless the DPS of the pet isn’t completely transferred over to our attacks.

In fact, for this idea to work at all, we can’t get ALL of our pets DPS incorporated into our regular attacks, or we’d be too powerful. A ranger is a powerful force on stationary targets, our pets do very significant DPS: if all of that was added to our auto-attack we’d be OP. Everyone in support of this idea must be comfortable with the fact that you wouldn’t be getting ALL of your pet’s DPS.

Finally, and most importantly, this change would remove much of the Ranger class’s depth. I get that many Rangers look at their pets as “DPS + F2” already, and so they don’t see themselves as missing out on anything. However, our pets are much more than just DPS and a special attack. Their other 3 attacks are significant too, and give us access to a # of abilities, combo-fields, buffs, and heals.

As someone who really enjoys the diversity offered by the other 3 abilities our pets have, in addition to their variation in stats, attack speed, movement, etc. I would be disappointed by this change. I would much prefer a fix to pet pathing so that our pets aren’t so easily avoided and don’t always miss their attacks on moving targets. They shouldn’t be unblockable, but some improvements to pathing, accuracy, and responsiveness are needed. I don’t think this fix is easy, but I’m not convinced this suggestion is any easier.

tldr
What you’re suggesting is nothing short of a class overhaul: every weapon skill, every trait, every learned skill would have to be revisited. With the move away from a corporeal pet with its own stats, “weapon skills,” and activated abilities that provide a wide range of boons, conditions, combo fields, tanking ability, etc. much of the depth of the Ranger class would be lost in the process.

Again, it’s not a “bad” idea, but it’s simply unfeasible at this stage in the game. It would upset more people than most here might imagine and the workload is out of proportion to the possible benefits, especially when improvements to pet AI/pathing/responsiveness would have the same result without abolishing the unique interplay of pet combat.

Bikazig.2496:

It seems they added a new pet Juvenile Reef Drake. It’s in the pet list in game atm.

Well that’s nice at least, my guess is we can tame this pet in Southsun Cove, the new zone.

Thanks Travis, I’ve edited my OP to reflect this. My guess is there’s at least one change no one has noticed yet (bullet point #16), perhaps a pet skill?

I’m just posting things I’ve heard from other posters so I appreciate confirmation or debunking, thank you (I’ve never been a SB user myself).

Sounds like the only undocumented change was the trap CD then?

Hrm, guess the other poster was incorrect, making it much less likely that it’s a bug. That really is frightening. I was sort of upset before this but I can live with waiting, but if it turns out the nerf to trap CD’s was intended…

Any chance you can test to see if the cooldown is actually 24 secs, or if the tooltip indicates so but is incorrect?

Thank you John for your response. One thing I do think needs addressing right away is the stealth-nerf to trap cooldowns which are now all 30 seconds, regardless of traits. I assume this is a bug, because I can’t imagine you nerfing one of our more useful, unique skills w/o also significantly buffing us in other areas. Some clarification that this is, indeed, a bug and will be fixed soon would be great.

If this is intended and simply wasn’t included in the patch notes, then well, not sure what I can say about that w/o liberal use of kittens.

As much as I can appreciate flailing ones arms in the air while screaming, I feel there are enough threads along those lines and a constructive thread for reporting bugs and unreported changes is in order.

So far, I have heard the following:

• Traps now all have 30-second cooldowns, and trap potency does not decrease them as intended. Trapper’s expertise, on the other hand, does decrease them but is not actually supposed to.
• New Pet “Juvenile Reef Drake” listed, likely available in Southsun Cove, the new outdoor zone.

Lets try and get a list of these so when (I refuse to say “if”) a dev comes to check on us he has more information to relay.

This is actually good news. It sounds extremely likely that it’s a bug, which increase the chances of a dev visiting this forum to report this. It’s also possible that if something this huge got overlooked, there may have been other intended changes that weren’t implemented or reported. At the very least, they can’t entirely ignore us.

Is there a working trade interface in the game yet? One possible way to avoid this so-called market manipulation (via monopolies on items with very limited supply) is this:

If you have that item and are wishing to sell, sell it to someone you know wants to use it via a private trade. You could setup a forum for people looking to buy and sell wares, maybe exclusively for things like precursors, and require people to post screenshots of the item soulbound afterward if they want to use that trading forum again.

Sure, there are ways of getting around even that (i.e. if someone already has that item soulbound). That said, my guess is it would be more trouble than it’s worth, and bot owners/trade moguls using the forum would be pretty easy to spot.

Perhaps that’s a bit extreme, but the basic concept I think is sound: selling to buyers you know are purchasing the item for use. This can be as simple as trading to your friends/guildies, or something as elaborate as a specific online trading forum used expressly for that purpose. Of course this would require a working trade interface, and I thought I heard one doesn’t exist currently (maybe that was only shortly after launch though).

Kana.6793:

@ Focksbot

The point that you’re missing is that it’s not about people being unable to do the puzzle. It’s about their reaction to being unable to do the puzzle. Coming onto the forums and complaining that their whole Halloween is ruined because they can’t fill the achievement pane in the first year is childish. Making the poor guy who designed it feel bad for upsetting people because they can’t accept the fact that they were unable to do it is wrong.

There are plenty of other people posting here saying that they couldn’t do it and that either they’re looking forward to trying again next year, or that they weren’t that fussed so they just went to do something else.

The puzzle is not impossible. Many people completed it. If you couldn’t, it doesn’t matter. Just try again next year. There’s nothing wrong with being unable to do it, or being new to gaming and lacking experience with such puzzles. It takes practice and you’ll get there eventually.

But no-one is responsible for your moods other than yourself. People demanding it be removed because they felt too stressed, angry or impatient is wrong. You choose to be angry and impatient with the puzzle.

Here here! It’s alarming to me to see people blame their moods on the designer or the content instead of taking some personal responsibility. Really, controlling your anger/frustration is as simple as choosing a more humble outlook in life. It’s not “self-help waffle” as one other poster put it (though that does sound delicious) it’s common-sense.

Focksbot.6798:

No one chooses to be angry and impatient. That’s self-help waffle. You have some limited control over your emotions, but it’s foolish not to look for the exterior source of them and try to confront it.

Uhh… what? How is being an adult and taking some responsibility for your emotions “self-help waffle”? People do have the capacity to adjust their emotional reactions to events, but it requires humility, which is where the most fervent jumping “haters” seem to be lacking most. If you could simply say to yourself:

“it would appear I am incredibly bad at jumping. If I can’t find any way to improve, then I should probably go do the other Halloween content instead to avoid needless frustration.”

You wouldn’t end up getting angry, or trying to place blame where it doesn’t belong. Of course, this requires admitting to oneself that you have a below-average capability in something, to the point where it would be unreasonable for devs to design around your disability. It’s a video game, not a public building: they can’t guarantee access to content for everyone without completely watering down the game.

If you value “accessibility” above all else, you end up with a game where content is: a series of stationary, black/white (wouldn’t want to offend the color-blind!) loot pinatas that don’t require any textual, auditory, or visual cues (can’t alienate the illiterate, deaf, or blind!) on a completely flat surface. Requiring dexterity or puzzle-solving intelligence is also out of the question. Since some players will be unable to click the screen/keyboard to target the pinatas due to a physical disability, you can also just shout “LOOT!” into your microphone and the loot will automatically be opened and deposited into your character’s backpack.

Note that I’m not directing my criticism at people who complained about the actual jumping puzzle, only those saying the jumping required in the MK dungeon was “too much” and unfair. I ran that dungeon 50+ times in dozens of different groups, and never once did I encounter someone who consistently couldn’t make the jumps. Anyone who may have initially had trouble learned how to drop down correctly after a single try.

As for the actual jumping puzzle, I think it was great, and really the only thing Josh has to apologize for is not making it clear that completion was completely optional for the halloween meta-achievement. There were some technical issues that arose due to having 10+ players completing it at once, but anyone truly dedicated to completion, patient, and humble could learn to manage them. It was only the people who insisted on blaming their failure on norns and charrs who never completed it, because they focused their energy on blaming others instead of managing the added difficulty.

I’d also like to add that this accidental dynamic did encourage empathy and altruism, at least in my case: I formed bonds with many of the players (even Norns/Charrs) that were failing around the same spots I was and we gave each other tips and encouragement until we had all finished.

Wow, people in this thread are really overreacting. I was there pre-nerf and opened 6 chests. From 6 chests, I got 3 level 76 exotics. People were linking exotics they found and I never once saw anyone link a level 80 exotic. I also never heard of anyone getting a halloween-themed exotic from them. As others said, you really didn’t miss much: the gold/hour was slightly better than Orr, but only very slightly. Legendary precursors and halloween weapons were not dropping from these chests. If they were, they were incredibly rare drops as no one on my server got one over the course of a couple hours. Even if someone did and kept it secret, I was in a group where we would link our findings from each chest and plenty of people never got an exotic, let alone one worth more then 30-60s.

Human Ranger
No Speed Boost
2ish hours, kept failing at the two beams before I realized you had to jump down. While I initially blamed my failure on a very large Charr in my instance, I eventually realized I was just not making optimal jumps and the Charr and I gave each other tips, eventually completing it within a few minutes of one another.

Jia Shen.4217:

Seriously why would they design something that they would expect only 5% to complete that is just insane!!! Why go through the effort to make content that so few will enjoy/benefit from.

This is a very easy question to answer, actually. It is good to have something in-game for people of all skill levels. This puzzle was made for platform enthusiasts that want a real challenge. We may be a minority of all GW2 players, but that doesn’t mean we can’t sometimes have content made just for us. The vast majority of content in GW2 is made to be completed by 100% of players, but any MMO with depth will have a wealth of side-content designed to appeal to specialized interests.

GW2 has embraced this philosophy by offering a robust structured PvP system, siege PvP, and a normal PvE game. Very few will like everything the game has to offer, but the variety means they will probably find something to like. There are already games out there that essentially only design content for the broadest section of players, we don’t need more. If Arenanet started to only design content that they expect only 5% will complete, then that would be a mistake. Having a very, very small % of content that presents this sort of challenge though is completely reasonable and gives the game depth it might otherwise not have.

Cheers.

sonicsix.5713:

Caelib.2497:

7 page forum thread on Clock Tower. Conclusion: design fail.

Don’t forget the LARGE number of post about this on Reddit. An no kittens there. I think Anet really ticked off a very significant portion of the player base. The elitests can go back to WoW, please.

Huh? I would think it would be the people that want the difficulty lowered because they can’t stomach the idea of a small % of content being too challenging for them that would be best served by going “back to WoW.”

In any case, the volume of complaints doesn’t mean the design is bad, it just means the unhappy people are very loud. Even if they are a majority, it only means that Anet failed in communicating that this puzzle is meant to be an extreme challenge, not something that everyone should stroll in and expect to complete within an hour. Of course they did do that, so ultimately all it means is too many gamers nowadays feel entitled to content, and will demand things be handed to them on a platter. For the puzzle to be a challenge for players with any dexterity whatsoever, it’s going to be “impossible” for those players that lack any dexterity whatsoever.

99.9% of GW2 is easy, and doesn’t require precise timing or dexterity. Heck, even 95+% of jumping puzzles don’t require precise timing or dexterity, and they’re a part of the game you’d think would cater to those that want to challenge those skills. I find it very small-minded to ask for the difficulty lowered because you feel entitled to completing this one puzzle, when 99.9% of the game and most of the update is equal-opportunity. Why can’t you let people that want a challenge have a single bit of content just for them? You already have the entire rest of the game tailored to your skill level…

Question for those that want it easier: is it actually poor game design to have a variety of different challenges in-game to cater to all skill levels? Having a variety of difficulty in activities, by nature, means there will be some things some people can’t complete. Having no variety of difficulty (i.e. all content in-game can be completed by everyone) means that there will be no content that can’t be completed by someone, but it ALSO means there will be no content that presents a challenge to anyone.

Take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eCzRcwXJE8

It’s very doable to just orient yourself by your camera position instead of looking at your character. In fact, focusing in on your character is a bad habit as you want to constantly be eyeing the next ledge. It’s sort of like how new drivers want to look right in front of their car because they’re nervous, which makes them less accurate instead of relaxing their eyes and taking in the road from further out.

Bravo BluHaze! You conveyed in a few sentences what I probably failed to convey in a few paragraphs.

I am also very curious, for those having trouble:
Do you use your keyboard to turn, or your mouse?

If you use your keyboard, then I can understand why you’re having so much trouble. Use your mouse to turn and once you get used to it, it will be much, much easier. I’m not positive, but I think this is probably the root of most of the complaints, when you have a constant need to turn quickly and accurately as you run up, keyboard turning just isn’t good enough. It’s a bad habit learned from games like WoW where reactions didn’t matter as much, so you should try to learn to mouse-turn even if you don’t plan on finishing the puzzle. It’s essential to being effective in PvP, even in PvE it can make a huge difference: especially in dungeons (another area where we’ve seen lots of complaints…)

As many others have correctly pointed out, you are not entitled to finish this puzzle. It was explicitly designed to be the most challenging jumping puzzle they’ve done yet, to please the most fervent jumping puzzle enthusiasts looking for a challenge. It succeeded in that and then some. If it had been so easy that anyone could complete it, then the designer would have failed, because he specifically stated that he wanted to implement a nightmarish puzzle only the most dedicated will complete.

Nothing terrible will happen to you if you can’t complete it. Just move on, this puzzle is like 1-2% of the total halloween content. If it was the only thing they added, or one of a few things, I could understand the complaints. It’s not: it’s a tiny fraction of the overall content, and you don’t even need to complete it to get the kitten title people seem to want so badly. If Anet ends up caving in to these complaints from people that simply can’t accept the idea of content that’s not for them I’m going to be incredibly disappointed.

The puzzle is very doable, for those who are having trouble I suggest taking a break and trying again tomorrow or in a few hours. Watching a walkthrough on youtube is also a big help. If after that you still can not complete it, then move on and enjoy the rest of the patch. It’s mostly rote memorization so even the least agile players should be able to learn it eventually if they are calm and patient, but telling yourself it’s impossible or blaming it on Norn’s/Charrs will only delay your success, since it will distract you from focusing in on your own mistakes. Yes, Norns/Charrs can make things difficult for small characters, but it’s not close to impossible: you don’t need to even see your character once you’re used to it, your eye should be on the next platform anyway. Again though, if after sincerely taking that advice and looking to your own mistakes instead of blaming others/Anet you still can’t complete it, then you lack the basic dexterity needed to do reasonably challenging platforming of any kind.

If Arenanet structured all jumping puzzles around your skill level, the rest of us would be bored to tears, and I’ve noticed the people bad at jumping puzzles don’t even LIKE doing them: they just want the loot. It’s just selfish of you to ask Anet to ruin content that jumping puzzle enthusiasts LOVE simply so you can get your loot/achievement from the content you don’t even like doing. I have to say, after reading this thread I’m really disappointed in the GW2 community. I liked to think our game didn’t have as many “I want it NOW!” types as that other game, but it seems I was sorely mistaken.

p.s. I do recognize that there are some issues making the puzzle more difficult than it should be, and these should be addressed: namely, too many charrs/norns can make visibility somewhat difficult. Might be better to have different instances for each race, or resize everyone in some flavorful way (turn us into skeletons or something). I don’t think it will make as much of a difference as people failing are hoping though: I have a small character and once I figured out a consistent path, it didn’t matter if I couldn’t see my guy. Beyond that, it really is a very reasonable challenge: it seems impossible at first but you need to map out an efficient path in your head, taking the same route each time and improving upon it when needed. It’s also important to turn with your mouse instead of your keyboard, once you do these two things you will get it eventually, and you’ll feel GREAT when you do!

I like the idea, and collections of various sorts have always been popular in other MMO’s. I’m guessing these types of additions aren’t a high priority for Arenanet, though hopefully we’ll see something like it in the first expansion pack.

Verteiron.8734:

Remember, the idea here is NOT to change the overall drop rate of Precursors. The idea is to hide the random number generator behind activities that feel like you are accomplishing something. If at the same time, player effort can be redirected into a wider variety of areas and tasks than Orr, all the better.

While I appreciate the intent, I fear it may not work out this way in practice. I’m certainly not against giving boss mobs more identity or unique loot, but people determined to get their legendary will be just as upset grinding dungeons/bosses and failing as they are now dumping items into the MF and failing. The players for whom legendarys are the be-all end-all will not feel as though they are making progress until they actually get their precursor, because generally these types of “chase” items inspire tunnel-vision.

For that reason, I like Sir Ryan’s suggestion of keeping the MF mechanic and the current difficulty/rarity, but obtaining pieces used to craft a precursor instead. These pieces could also be sold on the trading post to mimic the market-bolstering effects of precursors. Even though they wouldn’t make legendarys easier to get, they would reduce variance, give players a clear sign of progress, and also make the average cost more visible to help dissuade players for whom legendarys aren’t a reasonable goal.

edit: Note that despite preferring Sir Ryan’s suggestion for legendary weapons, I do think more emphasis on unique weapons/armor from world bosses/events would be great. It’s no fun taking down a champion with a large group and getting grey trash loot.

Horheristo.3607:

As one mentioned already – it’s all a conspiracy to make you buy more gems.
Just understand it admit it and move on.

Conspiracy implies secrecy :P. I don’t think it’s a big secret that Arenanet would want attractive money sinks in-game because it helps keeps inflation under control which maintains demand for currency. These things are good for the health of the game and for Arenanet’s business, there’s nothing really sinister about it. If legendary weapons were the best weapons stat-wise, I’d find more fault in it because then it would be a little close to pay-to-win for my tastes, but that’s not the case.

Brave Sir Ryan’s suggestion of precursor precursors, while a bit of a silly concept, could actually work. While I do think much of the legendary fervor is misplaced and based off of incorrect perceptions that they are the best weapon or the primary PvE end-game, I do agree that the current process may have too much variance. This ends up leading both to frustration and players thinking a legendary is a reasonable goal for them. Often, the thought process seems to go “all I have to do is combine 4 rares/exotics and get lucky, how hard can it be?” w/o regard to just how rarely this happens and the amount of money one will have to spend.

The call for less variance/RNG generally seems to be tinged with the hope that precursors are cheaper/easier to get overall, but Sir Ryan’s suggestion simply reduces variance w/o reducing difficulty/rarity. It just softens variance and allows players to make visible progress w/smaller investments, instead of the current all-or-nothing result. Best of all, it would reinforce just how expensive it is to craft a precursor from the MF once people realized how much it would cost for their first 1-2 out of 20 pieces, and would hopefully encourage these people to set more reasonable goals.

Suddenflame.2601:

Verteiron.8734:

Suddenflame.2601:

They already randomly drop from monsters (the precursors). Its extremely low drop rate but its there.

Are there any screenshots or dev statements to that effect? Rumors have real staying power in MMORPGs, but that doesn’t make them any more than rumors.

No but do you have any screenshots or dev statements to say that they are not? I have rumors that they do drop from monsters but you have nothing to support that they dont.

At the very least I think it’s likely they drop from the big event chests that pop after the raid events, since I have seen claims of this countless times and the amount of these chests opened is low enough that it’s understandable there aren’t videos/screens. Believing that they drop from any world mob though is a bit more difficult, unless the chance is something like %.000001 because you’d think there would be more first-hand reports/screens. Then again, it’s entirely possible they do drop with a 1-in-ten-million chance but that means it’s not relevant for those pursuing them.

On another note, for those that want a non-random way of obtaining a precursor, this is already in-game. Arenanet made them tradeable in part so that gambling in the mystic forge, or hoping for a drop w/a ~.001% chance aren’t the only avenues of obtaining them.

Grinding gold to purchase one off the market is about as straightforward as it gets, but the price convinces people to gamble on the MF instead since they could never afford simply buying it. This is, by and large, a mistake and often just leads to wasted gold that they could have spent on alternative skins or saved towards a precursor. If the gold price for a precursor seems out of reach, it is very likely that so too is gambling for one in the MF (unless you get very lucky) and your gold/time could be better spent elsewhere.

While this would certainly be a good addition if you’re talking obscenely low drop-rates (otherwise there would be too many legendary weapons), I don’t think this would solve the dissatisfaction/depression/madness I’ve seen from people trying for a legendary. I have played enough MMO’s to know that people aren’t any happier running a dungeon dozens of times trying to get a single item than they are throwing items in a forge. If anything, it’s even more of a grind and it’s still random. Yes, you get other awards, but you get other awards from the forge as well: just not the ones you want. Having anything other than a precursor drop from a boss isn’t going to be what those people want, and you can bet they’ll be just as unhappy.

Besides, this is already in the game to some extent. I have heard multiple times that there is a small chance for precursors from the big event chests that pop when you kill an elder dragon, and I’ve even heard tales of people getting precursors as random world drops. The poster above me that said “don’t you think people would have said something?” is right, and they have. I’ve seen many reports of this on fan sites and in-game. It’s often met with skepticism from people that haven’t got one off an event/drop, but that’s to be expected, regardless of the truth of their claims.

Ultimately, this legendary madness comes not from bad mechanics (though there is some of that at work) but from players treating them like the primary PvE end-game. There seems to be a widespread misunderstanding that the stats are slightly better than normal level 80 exotics, thus pushing players that don’t care about the skin grinding so they can have the “best” weapon. I too thought this until discovering that this was a misconception based on data-mining, they may have intended for higher stats at one point, but in-game legendary weaps have the same stats as normal exotics. They are not the primary PvE end-game, they do not advance your character, they are there as a very long-term achievement for dedicated players who really want to stand out, guild leaders who have financial support from their guilds, those lucky enough to get a precursor drop, or the very-rich w/more money than sense.

I could understand the complaints if there were no other skins to go for, but that’s simply not the case. There are dozens of unique, hard-to-get but not impossible skins out there to work towards. Some are bought with dungeon tokens, others from Kharma or PvP, and still others from static MF recipes. If players realized their legendary fervor was misplaced (they are not the best, or even best looking weapons in the game unless all you care about is making yourself a visible target in PvP) they could set more realistic goals that would still occupy their time in-game across a number of locations and varieties of gameplay.

This message will likely fall on deaf ears because it’s human nature to want that which you can not have. If arenanet makes legendaries much more easily attainable, they won’t be near as desirable or prestigious. Those people that thought getting a legendary would make them content, prestigious, etc. will quit when they realize they forgot how to do anything but grind and that no one cares about their dime-a-dozen legendary anyhow. Luckily humans aren’t slaves to that instinct and we can easily adapt our goals to be both more realistic and more fulfilling, though I fear far too few ever realize this.

Well, after seeing the latest replies, I’m going to duck out for today. I can only take so much verbal abuse, accusations, and hasty assumptions. Clearly, I’ve touched a nerve without intending to. I realize my message is not necessarily pleasant to hear at first, but I do think it’s what some people need to hear. I have nothing against people doing what makes them happy, and achieving their goals.

When what you are doing is making you unhappy, however, and your goals are unrealistic, the best thing to do is set different goals. I know I can be long-winded, but that’s the gist of what I’m trying to put out there, it doesn’t have to be a bad thing. In fact, you might find it liberating if you changed your outlook on legendary weapons as more of a dream than a goal, because I doubt Arenanet is going to make them any easier to get w/o reducing the extravagance of their effects for performance and aesthetic reasons.

Cheers.

azazil.9541:

Jihoko.3927:

Heh, not surprised to see a passive-aggressive reply like this but you couldn’t be further from the truth. ……

Well first we are talking here about Legendary Precursors and not for Legendary Weapons.

Do you have any idea of making Legendary Weapons from Legendary Precursors ?

How to Craft Legendary..

hide spoiler

Please read this before….

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/64363-legendary-weapons-guide/

If is it not enough for you i don’t wanna say anything or you have no idea what you are talking about.

Since this topic for climbing prices of Legendary Precursors and etc… not about Legendary Weapons.

I am aware of the basis of the discussion, as I am also aware that getting a legendary is a LOT of work even apart from the precursor. However, the precursors’ are the best way for Arenanet to limit the # of legendary’s in circulation. It’s hard for them to limit people from achieving time-based grinds as they are now, so their best avenue is making precursors absurdly hard to get. They have data on how many monsters are killed a day, how much loot drops, etc. so they can know exactly how many legendary weapons can be made on each server over a given time period since precursors are the current limiter. The alternative would be making precursors easier to get but greatly increasing the other grinds, which would also make people upset. They really can’t win.

I will say that it’s possibly a design flaw in this day and age, where gamers can’t accept the idea of items that are only meant for a very small % of all players. However, it seems pretty clear to me that is the intention for legendary weapons, as there are a # of other skins players can go for that still require effort but that won’t break the game if too many people have them. I personally am fine with items that only the top 1-3% will ever get, even though I am decidedly not in that group.

I enjoy games where there are haves and have nots, even though I am always in the “have nots” because to me it adds to the feeling that I’m in a virtual world. It would be silly for more than 1-3% of players to have legendary weapons that drastically alter the appearance and effects of combat. I might think one person shooting giant rainbows or leaving a trail of flowers in a battle is pretty neat, but it would get really tiresome if I saw dozens of rainbows shooting from all directions and the terrain was covered with flower decals every battle.

Rainshine.5493:

Jihoko.3927:

The reality is that as they are “legendary” weapons, only a small % of people are intended to have them, or it would defeat the purpose.

It’s in Anet’s best interest to have the biggest long-term goal actually achievable by people who want to work toward them; otherwise the game is kind of lacking in long-term goal departments if PvE is your only thing. GW1 had Obsidian Armor; took a heinous amount of gold/materials, some dropped only in two of the “elite” areas of the game (probably on par with the drop rate for the GW2 lodestones, except with harsher penalties if you died because you had to pay to get into the zone and you got kicked out if you died). The difference is you COULD learn the builds, you COULD learn the pulls/runs and farm them yourself eventually without having to have gotten in early or learned to play the market.

I’m not sure why you presume to know Anet’s intent with these things.

Jihoko.3927:

I think what people are missing is that if they changed it to a fixed recipe, it wouldn’t be any easier than it is now to simply farm the gold. It would just be more obviously, outrageously out of reach for most players than it is now.

Absolutely not, because there are no moving goalposts with a fixed recipe. With the market, that’s absolutely NOT the case. One could take the “easier” route, learn to play the market and buy them still; or one could expend one hell of a lot of effort to slowly gather/purchase materials themselves. EDIT: With a fixed recipe, that is.

Well, the name of the weapons themselves gives a good hint as to their intent. More importantly, the nature of the particle effects and appearance changes is such that if any more than a small % of people had them, performance would suffer greatly as would aesthetics. I mean, imagine a WvW battle where everyone was shooting off rainbows, leaving glowing trails of flowers as they run, etc. leading to this giant cluster of light, particle, and decal effects that would make combat not only look completely absurd, but would slow performance to a crawl. They are not your average hard-to-get end-game item, they are very, very special in how much they transform how your character looks, which is what makes them so desirable, but also what makes it necessary for only a small % to ever get them.

There are other hard-to-get items w/special skins in-game that are more reasonable that I’m guessing people going for legendary’s could go for instead. You have all the unique skins for each dungeon as well as honor badge items, and they all take quite a lot of time to achieve. The difference is that while they offer your character a unique skin, they don’t turn you into a bonified superhero of awesomness that lets you stand out from the crown, so people don’t crave them as badly. However, if they were easier to get, the irony is you wouldn’t want them as badly and honestly they would just look silly instead of special. They are extravagant, some might say overindulgent in the glam aspect, and it would be extremely undesirable for more than a small % of players to walk around w/them.

Killface.1896:

@ Jihoko last time I knew this was not a Koran grind fest game so yeah I believe Anet will fix this insane gold amount you need to buy stuff like Rage,
it not like you need skill to farm gold just stay in orr and farm events + buy low /sell high in trade post.

It’s not a Korean farm game if you never attempt to attain the legendary. It is not needed for end-game content. Getting geared out in exotics is all you need to do, and it is a very modest grind for end-game gear compared with most games.

I do sympathize and I’m not intending to anger or upset anyone, truly. I really think many would be happier and enjoy the game more if they simply abandoned this intense lust for a legendary weapon. Their names would not make sense if more than a small % of people had them, and the particle effects and things like flower-path footprints would lead to performance issues if too many did. It comes down to math and common sense:

1. of people grinding towards legendary weapons – # of legendary’s meant to exist = # of unhappy people whose time could be better spent on more reasonable pursuits.

Unfortunately, the current situation is there are far more people working towards legendaries than the # of them meant to exist, so there are a large # of unhappy people.

Cerise.9045:

@jihoko I’m sorry you typed up such a huge post, but ChairGraveyard

Your post is aimed at “people who want a legendary base weapon with no effort”

These people do not exist, at least none of them have posted in this thread so far. So your whole argument is with people who don’t exist.

His post was directed at me, and the insinuation was that I was directing my statement at people who expected a legendary w/no effort, which as you rightly pointed out do not exist in this thread. I never said people were expecting them w/o effort, ChairGraveyard wrongly inferred that. My argument is directed at people who expect a legendary for an amount of effort that, while extraordinary in itself (I don’t expect to complete even the non-precursor components any time soon, if ever) is still less than what is intended for weapons that only a small % of players are ever meant to have.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

I stopped reading your post at “your are not entitled” Jihoko.

Your entire post hinges on the straw man argument that we are expecting a precursor for no effort, which no one in this thread is saying at all.

You should have read the rest of my post, because I wasn’t saying that at all. Nowhere did I insinuate that people are expecting it for no effort. Clearly, even if the cost/time were reduced ten-fold, they would still require a large amount of effort to achieve. My point is that people they think that if they put in X amount of time/effort, they should be guaranteed a legendary.

The reality is that as they are “legendary” weapons, only a small % of people are intended to have them, or it would defeat the purpose. By feeling entitled to them based on X amount of effort, you are missing the point. They are not GW2’s end-game, they are a curiosity for the very rich, very lucky, or very, very, very determined. As I’ve pointed out multiple times now, there is a direct path to legendaries that does not require luck: buying them from the TP. That price, by definition, correlates exactly to the intended effort required to obtain one (namely, more than a large % of the server are willing/able).

I think what people are missing is that if they changed it to a fixed recipe, it wouldn’t be any easier than it is now to simply farm the gold. It would just be more obviously, outrageously out of reach for most players than it is now where the mystery surrounding the mystic forge and luck-based component lead to unrealistic expectations. My best advice is to simply look at whatever it costs on the trading post, and think of that as the recipe: if it is simply too far out of reach, then using the mystic forge will not be any easier (on average) now that people know how to create precursors.

azazil.9541:

@Jihoko… Sorry really i’m so sorry but you sound like another gold seller at this forum or at least you are after your own little fortune from TP or something like that. Since there is a enough adventure ( for money and time etc… ) after Legendary Precursors for Legendary Weapons.

Heh, not surprised to see a passive-aggressive reply like this but you couldn’t be further from the truth. I just hit 80 the other day on my main, and I have a total of maybe 30s on my account. I have not benefited from any of the exploits nor have I profited greatly from the trading post. I’m not sure why you think my reply means I’m a gold-seller though. The point I am trying to make is that people should temper their expectations: everyone wants a legendary, but by their vary nature they are something only a small % of people will ever have. This is leading to a lot of (unnecessarily) frustrated people.

By encouraging people to simply abandon their extreme desire for a legendary in favor of more realistic goals, achievements, or activities, I’d be hurting my business if I was a gold seller. I just wish more people would enjoy the game instead of chasing an unrealistic goal simply because they are locked into the mindset that end-game is grinding for the “best” item, and nothing else. I am a concerned player and member of the community, only trying to appeal to the common sense of other players. There is no “angle” I’m trying to work here.

My only vested interest is in Arenanet not making legendary weapons easier, because I enjoy there being virtually unattainable but spectacular items that truly wow you when you see someone running around with one. This may seem bizarre to you, but I’m actually able to appreciate someone else’s achievement/luck/support/craziness rather than see something someone else has that I don’t, and going crazy with jealousy.

Tomcat.8375:

Because it’s based solely on luck, rich specific people are in 100% control of the TP’s supply of these precursors and the price is simply out of hand. In short, there needs to be a specific recipe for precursors.

A good example for Dusk:
Gift of Dusk – Karma (one for each precursor to make the recipe unique)
E. Scroll – Skill points
100 Mystic Coins – rewards for completing achievements
250 Ectos – luck from salvaging

With coins and ectos, yes they will increase in price, but they are also easily obtained through salvaging rares and completing dailies and monthly achievements.

I’m not against still selling precursors in the TP, but give us a static goal to shoot for instead of some ever inflating, luck based, component.

The price is based off the supply and demand. Your suggested recipe would lead to legendary weapons being much more common than they are now, likely much more so than Arenanet intended them to be. When there are only meant to be a few of a given item on a server, to make them worthy of the “legendary” name, it is no surprise that they go for hundreds of gold. Hundreds or thousands of people wanting an item there are only a few of is what is skyrocketing the price, not market manipulation.

This may be hard to hear, because for most it will lead to the realization that they do not have the time nor wealth to attain a legendary, but there is already a non-luck based way to get a precursor: buying it from other players. It is a simple recipe with only one ingredient: gold. That cost is likely unattainable for most players, but this is intended.

If the legendary precursors were driven above their true value, then they wouldn’t be sold. Since people are buying precursors at those prices, that means they are priced correctly. An items true value is derived only from what people are willing to pay for it.

I feel this is simply a situation where the “solution” is a change in expectations rather than action from Arenanet. The alternative is they make them much easier to get, and in a month we’ll see everyone running around with legendary weaps lagging WvW to hell and covering the ground everywhere in trails of flowers :\.

I’m not trying to be insulting or condescending to anyone in this thread, but many are in need of a reality check, so here goes:

You are not entitled to a legendary weapon. The name itself suggests that they are something only a small % of people will ever own, whether it’s through guild support, luck, spending tons of real life cash, or in some cases exploiting: they are not for every, or even most players. Many people are setting themselves up for disappointment and becoming disillusioned because they have unreasonable expectations. These are not “typical” end-game weapons that everyone should be able to get in a reasonable amount of time.

What makes them special, and desirable, is they are designed so that few people will ever have the time/money/luck to get them. If every dedicated 80 was walking around with legendaries, it would be completely ridiculous and would ruin the appeal: they’d be just like exotics are now, and the special particle effects and footprints would really mess with performance/aesthetics in high player-density areas like WvW or LA. I personally would be overjoyed to get one, but I realize it is very unlikely. I might gamble some rares/exotics here and there to try and get a precursor, and I’m sure I’ll try and make some headway now and then on the other ingredients just in case, but it’s not something I expect to ever get, and you know what? That’s just fine. I’m glad there are items in the game that few people will ever attain, even if I’m not one of those people.

The entitlement issue with MMO players nowadays is a huge issue. Certain games I won’t name here have led to the expectation that everyone deserves to have the same things and it just takes all the prestige and mystery away from top-end items like legendary weapons.

That said, I agree there is an issue w/some players who have attained legendaries through dishonest means. Playing the market might be sleazy, but it isn’t dishonest. People who actually exploited the game to achieve them should be punished, whether that’s a ban or deleting the item because it cheapens the achievement for those who earned it.

Overall though, there are far too many people who expect a legendary that really shouldn’t. It’s not even based on luck as much as people are saying: you can buy them off the TP. If you want a guaranteed shot at a precursor, worry about farming the gold instead of depositing endless rares and exotics hoping to get lucky. The request for a guaranteed recipe that’s a huge grind is redundant. There already is a guaranteed recipe that’s a huge grind, and there’s only one ingredient: a huge sum of gold. The price in general will reflect the difficulty of doing so, the most sure bet is simply saving the gold. If that price seems unattainable for you, then that means legendary weapons are unattainable for you and you would be much happier accepting that and appreciating the depth and mystery they add to the world.