Showing Posts For Kamos.2897:
mcl.9240You’re working from the premise it never will, without proof.
And you are working from the premise that it will work, without proof. As you said, it is “a system that works on the basis of incremental improvement.”
However, this incremental improvement is a week long process that uses the score obtained by each team to create a new, supposedly “fair” match. It does not account for: server transfers, player populations across time, player morale and, ultimately, player skill, since night capping has now been demonstrated (by the graphs released by Anet) to be a major factor in said score.
So, basically, you’re asking us to trust that a system that observes and controls bananas to do a good job with apples. Forgive me if I remain a bit skeptical.
Ascleph.2147So is Kaineng the only world thats losing and still trying to win w/o crying in the forums and saying how evil their oponent is for winning?
Yes. You see, it is easy to do when your server actually is ’weak’* at any time of the day. Now, when your server has a fair fight during the day and then during the night PUFF all your territory gets overrun, things are a bit different.
There is a difference between losing stuff over, and over, and over for such a silly reason as server population, and never having had something to begin with.
- - With all due respect to Kaineng. It seriously sounds like the best server to be in and I’d go there, if it didn’t mean leaving behind the people in my current server.
Lasica.5068I haven’t seen anything so far from bracket 3 which is Crystal Desert vs. Gates of Madness vs. Blackgate but going from the queue times I’d say CD is winning there.
You are correct.
Also, this is funny (to me). “From the queue times”. Ho ho ho.
Tzash.5748So FA move up into a higher bracket next round.
Where is the problem again?
One imbalanced round, especially this early on, doesn’t indicate a broken system.
You can think that if you want, but you are wrong. The amount of people playing in each server will not remain the same, and the distribution of players across time will not remain the same.
Take a look at the graphs that we now have access to. Scores are obtained through territory domination across time. However, territory domination changes according to a) player skill, b) defensive upgrades and c) the amount of players in each team at any given point in time. So, what does it mean? It means that you don’t understand how to read a graph if you think that match making is enough to fix that.
Firefly.4165Actually… matching up servers with similar graphs may be the answer?
It might work for the next week, but don’t count on it to work for the next month. The people in that chart are from all across the globe and they will have different holidays, different behaviors, etc. Ideally, you don’t want one team to be steamrolled by another simply because suddenly it is holiday in country “X”.
Matching those graphs is the long winded, overly complicated way of doing what every other team vs. team game does – dynamic balancing of teams.
Of course, you cannot dynamically balance teams because this is “World vs. World” – i.e., you cannot take on person from that gigantic queue in Henge of Denravi and put him in a server that could actually use his help. It has something to do with “server pride”, whatever that means.
In the end, the granularity of the teams is simply wrong. In a game called GUILD Wars, you’d think they’d assemble teams using smaller cells, such as GUILDS. Using a subset of a server’s population (the people interested in WvW) sounds like a good idea in theory, but just look at how well it actually works.
(edited by Kamos.2897)
Estus.1726The majority of “solutions” for the so called fixing of WvWvW seem to focus on penalizing the winning server and rewarding the losing servers.
When the “winning side” is playing by itself, you can’t really say it is winning. It just decided to be winning. Like that sad kid playing alone with the ball.
Elusive.9162We want to not have queues. If your server does not want to participate – too bad.
Wait, so I paid for this game and I’m not allowed to play it? Or rather, I’m allowed to play, but I’m to be punished because I chose server “A” instead of “B”? That is absolutely ridiculous. If this is the case, then WvW server stats should be presented on the server selection screen.
Isn’t it funny that the boasting in this game is more about things happening outside the game (where you live, at what time you play) than inside the game?
This is awesome game design. Anet should give free copies of Gw2 to Israel and Iran.
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Kamos.2897
Eliteseraph.4970Now you’re just trolling.
Good, because that is how I feel about the whole above conversation.
Eliteseraph.4970Even on the most sparsely populated servers there are people playing during the off hours. It’s far more likely that 100% map domination is caused by players not even willing to try fighting back. Or worse, people doing the opposite and abusing the free transfers to jump ship to a side that’s already dominating.
It is pretty easy to see when there is no queue during the late hours and nobody is defending anything.
Eliteseraph.4970Again, over time the server match making and lack of free transfers will smooth out the issue.
This is not some small 32 vs. 32 game we’re talking about here, nor one that resets every 10 minutes. Server populations change over time, and the distribution of players across the hours of the day will change even more according to local events (i.e. holidays). Server match making might no be enough. Anet itself realized this long ago and they have tried to solve this problem with the undermanned buff. Currently this is not enough. That is pretty much all I have to say.
Xandax.1753If “you” want structure and enforced teams; sPvP in this game or perhaps something like CounterStrike would be the way to go.
If “you” want to play PvE in what should be WvW, “you” can go right on ahead. Have fun fighting mobs! ^_______________^
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Kamos.2897
Eliteseraph.4970Now you’re just trolling.
Good, because that is how I feel about the whole above conversation.
Eliteseraph.4970Even on the most sparsely populated servers there are people playing during the off hours. It’s far more likely that 100% map domination is caused by players not even willing to try fighting back. Or worse, people doing the opposite and abusing the free transfers to jump ship to a side that’s already dominating.
It is pretty easy to see when there is no queue during the late hours and nobody is defending anything.
Eliteseraph.4970Again, over time the server match making and lack of free transfers will smooth out the issue.
This is not some small 32 vs. 32 game we’re talking about here, nor one that resets every 10 minutes. Server populations change over time, and the distribution of players across the hours of the day will change even more according to local events (i.e. holidays). Server match making might no be enough. Anet itself realized this long ago and they have tried to solve this problem with the undermanned buff. Currently this is not enough. That is pretty much all I have to say.
Xandax.1753If “you” want structure and enforced teams; sPvP in this game or perhaps something like CounterStrike would be the way to go.
If “you” want to play PvE in WvW, “you” can go right on ahead. Have fun!
Oxzy.2376I don’t understand, completing a jumping puzzle gives you siege blueprints to contribute in WvW. It is as much PvE as taking a sentry point or yakslapping.
Actually no, it isn’t. Taking a sentry point or protecting a caravan are tasks with direct WvW significance.
Making the jump puzzle is the tiresomely long way to get a few random blueprints that you could have instantly provided for your team by buying them at the siege vendor. The money you use there you can get outside WvW; the time you spend doing the jump puzzle, on the other hand, is time someone isn’t using to do something useful for the team. And it gets even worse if said jump puzzle is being camped by a few of your opponents.
Also, there are lots of people queuing for WvW just to make the jump puzzle and then leave. There is rich orichalcum in there, you know.
I still liked the 24h battles better, at least everybody got a reset everyday.
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Kamos.2897
Eliteseraph.4970Ok, so you’re not interested in anyone competing against you at all unless they let you hang on to your conquered sites for more than 24 hours?
No, rather I’d like for there to be a possibility that my sites will be there for more than 24 hours. From this point onward I’ll just consider that you have somehow not read about this thing people call “nightime capping issue”.
Eliteseraph.4970What would you do if your server DID have lots of players on during the off hours, but they just sucked at WvW?
Well, if they sucked a lot, maybe we would at least have a tower or a supply camp in some map. Which would be better than, say, having nothing.
Eliteseraph.4970I don’t understand this kind of approach to WvW. The territory is there to be fought over, but you’re acting like you don’t want to have to risk losing it while you’re not on.
Oh? Is that how you see it? Interesting. Because I think I said I’d like to not have to face the same situation over and over. I’m pretty sure I’d be bored just as well if every time I went in the WvW I found my team occupying everything.
Eliteseraph.4970Points are calculated fairly often, and it’s not as though the other servers taking points nullifies your own accomplishments.
As you say. Points are calculated pretty often. Now, if there is no one to defend during 10 hours of the day, how many hours of 100% map dominance are my opponents getting, again?
Eliteseraph.4970only on the bottom-end servers where everyone gives up without trying will run into that sort of situation.
their own narrow view of selfish ‘balance’.
And very likely will have a large number of people who transfer off of them, re-balancing the skill levels, eventually.
Your logic is undeniable! Please provide me with your server ID, I’ll gladly join you and make your queue time unbearable.
Of course, I jest. I wouldn’t transfer out of my server – there is nothing wrong with it. But please, do keep boasting about your elite skill of being in a server with superior distribution of players across timezones. It is absolutely hilarious.
Tzash.5748Except the game mechanics DO support 24/7 battles, just go talk to any of the top 4 US servers and ask them how much of an issue night capping really is.
It would be extraordinarily pointless to ask someone in a server that does not face a “time vs. population” distribution issue how bad night capping is.
OH! I get it. That was a disguised way of telling me to “suck it up”, wasn’t it? Oh, you! So smart!
Firefly.4165What you would like is for the world to change for you.
While “changing the world” would be nice (for some hippie), I’d settle for this game having balanced server populations over time, or some in-game mechanism that allows for dynamic balancing of WvW matches. Surely it is not unreasonable to ask that 50 players play against about other 50 players?
But yeah, perhaps I should go “play something else” if the “rules of engagement that makes this GW2” consist of you playing PvE against the keep lord inside my WvW zone at my expense. Of course, as soon as you refund me.
Eathanskies.3817Oh yeah let me just switch to an Oceanic server. Do you even think?
Yes, I do.
Eathanskies.3817That won’t happen, because it’s unnecessary. You understand how match ups work right? Each match up has a server far ahead of the other two, those servers will move on to face each other, while the rest will be matched up and form more balanced WvW. It’s going to work itself out, people are just acting like it’s the end of the world because it’s a week long match. It’s ending soon, tough it out.
See? This is a reasonable response. I do not agree, but it is reasonable, unlike your first one.
Daxramas.1940The game mechanics ARE for 24/7 battles, you need to understand that it’s you that has a problem with the 24/7 WvW and that you should go to a server that has a larger player base outside of the US or harden up and wait till player come to your server. The server wasn’t made for just you, it’s for everyone.
Daxramas.1940, I invite you to hit the “back” button in your browser and to take a look at the other people (who I assure you, are not my clones) reporting night capping as a ‘problem’.
I assure you that I have no personal problem with you or anyone born in your timezone. See, I’m not an evil person. I just wish you had your own server.
(edited by Kamos.2897)
Daxramas.1940So you’d like the WvW to be closed off at a certain time, meaning anyone outside of the NA timezone would not be able to play WvW? yeah, nice logic there.
Yes, that is precisely what I would like. If the game mechanics do not support “global, 24/7” games, then the game should not be open 24/7 to a global audience.
If this is a problem to the oceanic audience, then perhaps there should be a server to accommodate their timezone.
How on earth is a bf3 game even closely related to WvW? You obviously read my apples vs oranges post and then came up with an example thats even worse.
Both games have:
1) Teams
2) Conflicting objectives
3) Unbalanced teams make the game skewed
There! I didn’t even have to think to find similarities.
Daxramas.1940What I’m trying to get across is that, these servers, NA and EU, are not specifically for NA and EU. They’re are named NA and EU servers purely for the location of the servers to designate latency, the NA servers are hosted in NA but the server in Guild Wars 2 are global servers, i.e the server you’re in is catering to everyone on the planet that gets a better ping on the NA hosted server rather then the EU.
And what I’m trying to get across is that, while these really aren’t NA and EU servers intended for NA and EU players, perhaps they should be.
WvW could be run everyday from 5pm to 1am and use a “snapshot of the battlefield” made at the last second. Problem solved. No night capping, no “population vs. time” balancing issue. I am simply, honestly trying to understand the design decision, from the gameplay standpoint, that led Anet to decide that WvW would be a 24/7 battle. How does the game benefit, exactly?
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Kamos.2897
Eliteseraph.4970So you’re only interested in combat where your server already has at least a decent level of control established? You log on, see that you’re at a low level of control and just give up and go do something else.
No, I am not only interested in combat where my server already has at least a decent level of control. As I clearly stated, I’m interested in playing the game without it being Groundhog Day.
Having everything you do undone by the next morning defeats the purpose of having week long matches. I don’t know why Anet would even bother with this if they cannot provide the players to properly man each team.
Eliteseraph.4970WvW is a game of ruthless unfairness and hard combat.
No, sorry. If things keep going as they are, WvW will be a game of people taking camps by themselves and epic sieges of deserted towers. Get a grip.
Daxramas.1940But complaining about Oceanic players undoing what you’ve captured goes both ways. When You go to sleep I’ll be playing, when I go to sleep you’ll be undoing what I’ve done. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Except the NA server you play in loses stuff during “prime time” because they suck. Mine loses stuff during the “night” because there is no one to defend while you attack. Congratulations.
Daxramas.1940So you think it’d be appropriate for NA to have an advantage over the rest of the world playing on an NA hosted server?
I think it would be appropriate for a NA game to be playable for NA gamers during reasonable NA hours.
I got this game to play WvW. I had no idea, though, that it would be required of me to play 24/7 to compensate for oceanic guilds strolling casually across the map and undoing everything we conquest, upgrade, etc.
No, sorry. I think of them as north american servers (as they are), and I’m not from the USA.
Daxramas.1940Your night is not my night, ‘nuff said. I could complain that when you’re playing, that for me, that’s considered night capping with the logic you’re using right now. Just play the game when you can and not put your timezone into priority. Thankyou.
I’d say that night in a north american server is when it is night in a north american server. You’re making this more difficult than needed by proposing that there is a different night.
Transfer to HoD. Take a trebuchet, start firing randomly. Read chat.
Pure fun.
inb4 HoD people with hurt feelings: if you cannot send real-life ninjas to keep me from doing that, your server is weak and deserves to go down.
Cameirus.8407Dont be serious about WvWvW its supposed to be fun, and people can play it how they like, no reason why “your” playstyle or objectives should be enforced.
VisceralMonkey.6128I love doing both those events while doing WvW.
I’m tempted to believe that these people would go into a Counter Strike server to play chess.
Davion.8754I’m amazed you made it this long. protip: Your feelings wont be hurt if you stick to fighting npcs
This is a ridiculously offensive thing to say. You do not get to tell someone that they “should be playing something else” when they present their opinion about something.
Melphina.9035First off the jumping puzzle is alot of fun and there is actually alot of pvp down there
Yes, it is a lot of fun, but perhaps you should read what he wrote again, since his point was that people who are doing “small scale PvP” in the jump puzzle are people who aren’t doing WvW, and that is a problem since some teams are undermanned enough as it is.
Phara Miu.2816so yes WvW isnt fair it was never intended to be fair.
Mog.1589Hey OP ya know an attitude like that is why your server is probably losing. People who “Just give up” because they are losing so much are a big cause of your servers troubles.
Veltoss.9135And no one said WvW was fair, since when is open war ever fair? If you’re the underdog, find a way to beat them, don’t mope and whine on the forums about unfairness.
albi.9518On the other hand, WvW requires organization, guilds, map-awareness, strategy, group-skill
Chronologist.9782War is not fair
Thrashbarg.9820An aside to all you ship-jumpers and bandwaggoners either not playing cause your team is losing or moving to a dominant server: you’re making your own beds.
runeblade.7514Since when did Arena Net said that WvW was balanced?
Cameirus.8407“You win battles by knowing the enemy’s timing, and using a timing which the enemy does not expect.”
All you people talking about how WvW isn’t “supposed to be fair” are missing the point entirely. You’re just boasting about having joined a server that has a night crew. Yes, yes. Hooray for you.
The silly part is that your great “accomplishments in strategy” (as you make them sound, and someone even had the gall to quote Miyamoto Musashi) could be countered by your opponents if they decided to employ some chinese gold farmers to just sit there holding the territory during the night. That is how DERPey it is.
But please, don’t mind me. Go ahead and enjoy boasting about winning a game when the other team isn’t even playing. You are big winnars. Herpkitten
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Kamos.2897
I honestly cannot tell if OP is trolling or not. I will answer as if he wasn’t.
Eliteseraph.4970“This is the kind of approach to gaming and PvP and WvW that so many players don’t even consider. They just want everything handed to them, and don’t even see the potential that a map full of enemy controlled points presents.”
I’m not completely sure, but it seems to me that you are saying that players shouldn’t feel “entitled” and that they shouldn’t be asking Anet to work on a plan to somehow mitigate real world issues that obviously detract from the full potential of this virtual world game (i.e. timezones & server population). If this is the case, in essence you are saying that it is OK for one one team to have tanks and the other to have slings. It seems a bit silly.
As for seeing the “potential that a map full of enemy controlled points presents”, I don’t understand what you are talking about. What I do understand is that some challenges and situations are more interesting than others. When I think of an interesting WvW match, I think of control points changing hands due to team effort and master strokes of strategy, or people collaborating to reinforce defenses and defend against sieges. When I think of a boring WvW match, I think of doing the same thing every day – i.e., going into WvW to find that once again my team needs to go from 0% map control to 33% map control. And then do the same thing the next day. And the next day. And the next day.
It seems like that sounds very interesting to you, but I’ve done it enough times by now and if this is the gameplay depth that WvW can provide (and I’m sure it isn’t, once issues are worked out), I’d rather go do something else with my time.
(edited by Kamos.2897)
Blackgate player here.
To me WvW feels pretty much like Groundhog Day. I don’t see the point of doing it anymore. Every night we go in there and fight hard to slowly occupy a bit more than 1/3 of the map. Then, during the night, we lose everything.
I’m sorry if this sounds harsh but the server ranking is useless. It matters little how many points each server has scored if you do not consider when those points were scored.
Actually, I’m still trying to understand why an american server does not operate only during ‘reasonable’ american hours. And I’m not even from the USA or residing there.