Guild Wars 2

Based on 34 pages of WTB Cantha posts, I think a great many players would throw money at Anet to get Cantha back.

Anything Cantha-related would be instant-buy for me, whatever form it came in.

That said, I wholeheartedly miss the expansion model…that thrill of discovery and feeling like you have a whole new game in your favorite world to enjoy at your own pace.

gurugeorge.9857:

But then the garbling of European mediaeval and 17th century and various European cultural types in Asian MMOs is an example of Asian “Occidentalism”, and we ought to be offended by it.

Hahaha, exactly. If we want to accuse Anet of anything, then it should be stereotyping everyone. Anet’s real crime? Tropes everywhere!

gurugeorge.9857:

It’s a fascinating topic, but I think the foofaraw about “Orientalism” is more a case of Western breast-beating, egged on by Said, who himself is about as Western-enculturated as they come.

Great point. If we really want to have a discussion about Orientalism, we have to have a discussion about Said’s argument too, where it does and does not hold up, and how influenced it is by the very cultural preconceptions he’s trying to critique. His views are quite controversial, and we can’t talk about whether Cantha is or is not Orientalism unless we wade into that sticky debate. We could start outlining what aspects of Said’s theories we agree with and which we don’t, but I think that’s a little beyond the scope of this thread.

Edited for clarity.

Ratphink.4751:

Doctor Edward Said’s theory of Orientalism. Lookit up, because Cantha is a textbook example of it.

You must not have read my earlier posts in this thread, when I replied to you before. I have read Said. (What lit major hasn’t?)

I’m not really debating here whether Cantha is an example of Orientalism or not…that’s a separate discussion, one we already had as a matter of fact in those earlier posts.

What I’m pointing out is that Cantha being a negative stereotype of Asia has not ever been part of the decision to remove Canthan elements from the game, based on all the information we know from reliable sources.

The decision to avoid Canthan themes was based on cultural sensitives between Asian countries. It had nothing to do with Western countries’ stereotypical portrayal of Asia, which is a separate issue.

Sorry, missed this post when I was replying earlier.

Chopps.5047:

I’m American so I can’t explain it any better than I did, guys, sorry. I wish someone knowledgable about culture would post, but I’ve heard it described as “imagine making a digital representation of New York City where the Canadian flag is flown and The Sears Tower is on the cityscape.” I wouldn’t say it’s being politically correct…it’s a little deeper than that. And when you’re talking millions of dollars, you better make sure you’re not offending your potential customers. I hope that helps.

I like your example. Add on top of that centuries of history, politics and cultural complexity, and maybe we can begin to wrap our minds around why the Canthan district means something different to the Asian viewers who were uncomfortable with how it was designed, than it does to us.

BUT with one important difference. It’s actually like making a digitized cityscape designed to resemble the United States but actually is not the US, but a totally fictional country populated by made-up characters involving magic and technology that doesn’t really exist.

I think it’s important to remember Cantha is a fantasy world. Making a game and saying, “This takes place in Korea” is a LOT different from making a game and saying, “This takes place in a fantasy world inspired by various Asian cultures.” Anet is not trying to pass off Cantha as the real Asia here.

Anyway, I’m still convinced Anet can find a design that will respect these cultural considerations while further developing the Canthan lore we love.

Shanna.4762:

Sobiech.9613:

If not mentioned before, there is a nice article that points to this thread.

Hope restored?

I was just headed here to post about this, hope is somewhat restored! People need to keep asking, though

/cheer /dance !!

What a wonderful article! It’s working, folks! Let us be inspired to continue our efforts!

Best news I’ve read all day. XD

Ratphink.4751:

So yeah, people have the right to care about how their culture is interpreted, assuming that that was the case anyways. I don’t think any confirmation was given to the theory.

There had never been any mention of Asians being unhappy because Factions, or the Canthan designs originally present in GW2, were stereotyping them. I’m not sure what theory you’re referring to.

What has been confirmed by devs is that “feedback from Asia” indicated unhappiness with different cultural styles being mixed to create a hybrid Japanese/Chinese/Korean amalgam. Josh Foreman stated that the origin of the problem was mixed cultural designs.

That’s not really the same thing as being unhappy that the game portrayed Asians in an unrealistic, oversimplified and stereotypical way. The problem Josh discussed appears to be more of a “We’re Korean, not Chinese, get it straight” sort of scenario. And “how dare you mix my nation’s architecture with that nation’s over there.”

I’m all for defeating stereotypes and representing people fairly, and of course people have a right to care about how their culture is portrayed. But negative Asian stereotypes has not ever been cited as part of the Cantha veto issue.

In fact, Asian or Asian-American players have stated here and elsewhere that they’re more offended by Cantha’s exclusion than by how it portrayed their cultural heritage.

Just chiming in with my two cents. I agree, I would prefer if the Living Story was permanent content too. Obviously some things would need to go away—open world spawns like holos, for example—but story instances and dungeons could stay. Also the instances should be replayable per character, not per account.

In short, I wish Living Story worked more like Guild Wars Beyond in GW1. Honestly content that sticks around makes the world feel more “changed” to me than something that happens, then disappears, out of sight out of mind. War in Kryta and Winds of Change gave me more of a sense of time passing and history unfolding than any of the GW2 releases have yet.

I have really enjoyed all the releases so far, but just think how much more excited we would be for each chapter if we were getting not just new content, but new permanent content every two weeks!

This would be great for people who can play often—they have more content that’s always there to enjoy, like the challenging Aetherblade dungeon. It would also be good for those who don’t have as much playtime because the content would remain there for them to do at their own pace.

I’m happy to hear Anet is taking this feedback on board.

Psst…there is a big thread on Cantha that has gained dev responses, in case you guys are interested. It’s linked in my signature.

I think an expansion, especially a Canthan expansion, could be a long time in coming but is definitely not out of the question, especially if we ask for it enough.

Devs have recently confirmed that Cantha is not cut from the game, although they have also said it may be a long while before we get to go there.

That does suggest to me more Canthan elements trickling in via living story!! Hooray!

When I saw the concept art, Kaineng City was the first thing I thought of, too.

All of us over at the Cantha thread (linked in my signature) are certainly eager to see some kind of Cantha connection here. If you want to see more Canthan elements in the game, and you haven’t already posted there, please join us! The devs are following the thread so it’s a great way to give your shout out in favor of Cantha.

We did hear originally that negative feedback mixed architectural styles led NCSoft to veto the Canthan district (ffw to ~1:43:00) in Divinity’s Reach. (Since it was the 11th hour and there was no time to modify it to address the concerns, the devs simply had to take it out.)

The rumors that NCSoft vetoed all Canthan content forever, though, was a rumor based on an unsubstantiated YouTube comment.

Devs have more recently said that Cantha is definitely not gone from the game. Josh Foreman wrote in our thread that a Canthan expansion could be a long time in coming but we should keep asking for it if we want to see it.

So we are left to wonder if we will see more and more Cantha being organically added through Living Story, with the eventual possibility of getting back to the continent proper in a future expansion. That’s what I’m hoping for, anyway!

You guys may already know all this but if not, I wanted to share some of the latest Cantha-related news.

Well I hope everyone here enjoyed their Cantha fix over at Shing Jea Monastery in GW1 this weekend for the original Dragon Festival. Did you notice the new NPC who announces the weekly bonuses, “Foreman the Crier”? I wonder who that could be named after, hmm… And he stood in the monastery all weekend shouting, “Long live Cantha!”

Ffw to GW2, so who is now proudly sporting a jade weapon from Dragon Bash as an advertisement for future Cantha content? I hope you’ve all been lucky to get a ticket or three!

And if the jade weapon skins haven’t given us enough Cantha, check out the concept art for the new Bazaar of the Four Winds. Is it just me, or does that make you think, “Floating Kaineng”??

After disappointments over sky pirates who were not Canthan, I’m not assuming anything…the Bazaar may not have anything to do with Cantha. But I couldn’t help noticing some definite influence of the Factions visual style. Maybe we will see the scrapped Canthan elements built into the game more and more, the way we see designs from the cancelled Utopia campaign in Eye of the North and GW2.

Very nice, but I’m still eagerly waiting for the day when Anet stops teasing us and gives us something more than these tide-overs!

Thanks for seconding the question, HawkMeister. Yeah, for various reasons I will probably not be able to complete the dungeon either, so I’m curious whether this will be available to all. That would make the mini achievable without the dungeon or WvW, I believe, which would make a lot of people happy.

Just a quick question about the “Questions for Mai” achievement, which I know won’t be available until the next part of the story is released.

Will Mai Trin appear in Fort Marriner for everyone, including players who haven’t completed the Aetherblade dungeon? Or do you have to finish the dungeon to make her spawn for you?

I’ve looked through posts and achievement guides and found conflicting answers on this, so if anyone has an official answer that would be great.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I browsed through the last several posts, but didn’t see this :

Straight from the Dev’s mouth this past Sunday –
(Q:) Will we ever be able to go to Cantha?
(A:) (Paraphrasing) Cantha is definitely not cut from the game, you will just have to wait and see.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1g0zqb/tc_fireside_chat_with_former_lead_producer_in_la/

Oh happy day. Rejoice!

OH MY CELESTIALS.

It took a minute for the full meaning of this to sink in.

This means we have gone from, “Probably never” to “Maybe if you ask hard enough” to “Yes, it’s definitely coming back.”

CANTHA THREAD PARTY, RIGHT NOW.

We’ll never know exactly what went on behind the scenes, but it sounds like to me we made a difference!

Okay, I have to stop typing, otherwise the rest of this post will be a wall of ecstatic fandom text and I’ll get infracted for overuse of capslock.

XD XD XD

Just chiming in with OP to say I’m really interested in hearing more about this as well. I main an engi but am currently leveling a war alt who I’d like to use mainly in dungeons. Always fun to get the hang of a new profession.

For some reason, I was under the impression the legendary Zerker Warriors we hear about all the time run with rifle. The warriors I’ve done dungeons with so far mostly did. So is there a rifle variation of zerking, or is it always GS/axe and I was just mistaken about my teammates’ builds? It does seem like ranged weapons would work really well with this kind of high damage, low defense setup, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Any tips on how not to get downed while playing glass cannon in melee range? Is it just a matter of smart movement, like dodging and using GS3 at the right moments to get out of the way, or are there any particular utility skills that one should use?

Or do you just try to kill them before you die and rely on your team to get you back on your feet? ;P I just want to play as smart as possible and not be one of those zerker warriors everyone complains about, who run in blindly and spend most of the time on the ground.

Thalador.4218:

Kain Francois.4328:

Say “NO!” to Dragon Bash! My Canthan ancestors pray to the Celestials on this day, so shall we Canthans today!

HECKLE HECKLE RABBLE RABBLE HECKLE

I wholeheartedly agree with you! Shall we organize a protest event coinciding with the shameful, greedy Captain’s Council’s tour on the finale?

Indeed! Let us protest! And as part of our resistance, let us petition the Council to reopen sea travel to Cantha forthwith!

For those of you who haven’t already, check out the recent dev post about the Dragon Bash:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/dragon-bashers-welcome/

There are a few very brief mentions of Cantha—they basically state this is a makeover of the Dragon Festival. :O The article even mentions Kuunavang.

On the one hand, I’m so sad they have to downplay the Canthan lore elements and relegate them to a blog post, rather than in-game elements. On the other hand, I’m happy to see them acknowledge it here and really glad we still get to have our dragon festival, as different as it is. I’m excited for the bash!

If the living story somehow led into the rebuilding of the Canthan quarter in DR I would die happy…. I am fine with an expansion being in GW2’s long-term future, rather than right away, but if we could just have our Canthan quarter back sooner rather than later, that would be very vindicating.

gashu.8275:

I met my husband while playing Minister Cho’s Estate

WOW that’s wonderful. Amazing. Well you definitely have even more reason than most of us to have great memories of Cantha! If anyone wonders if Factions meant something to people, there is the answer.

Even for those of us who did not meet someone as significant as a spouse, the way it brought us together with friends and family has not been forgotten. So many good memories with good people!

I like Trahearne, too! And for the record, I thought Kormir was an AWESOME character in Nightfall.

I can understand why Trahearne annoys or bothers some people, but I’m not sure he’s deserving of all the full-on hate, you guys. ^^

I agree there is a gap between concept/execution…they could have introduced, explained and presented Trahearne’s character A LOT better, but I think the essential concept is good. This seems to be a problem with lots of personal story characters. Take Faren, for instance—there are hints he is a well-developed character, hiding an interesting personality and backstory under his ridiculous facade, but we are only given hints of that, never see it come to fruition. Maybe the Living Story will change that.

I am not being sarcastic either when I say I think Trahearne’s voice actor did a great job. A, he has the most amazing accent (from the point of view of flat-accent American me). B, his delivery is totally believable for Trahearne’s character. Why?

Trahearne is a scholar and a loner, not a leader. He is not supposed to be a charismatic general. He is the absolute unlikeliest general ever, thrust into that role.

It would actually be less believable if he suddenly developed compelling oratory skills overnight.

I found Trahearne’s humility and unlikely hero theme sympathetic. (Keep in mind it’s everyone around him, not Trahearne himself, who gives him all the credit…after being initially totally unimpressed by him. He did have to prove himself. Also there’s a lot of cheering for our character too, running past Pact NPCs at the end of the story.)

They pick him because of his a) one-of-a-kind knowledge of Orr and b) magic. Although the Priory and the Sylvari PC who retrieves the sword of awesome also contribute, it’s Trahearne who has the magic ritual woo-woo ability. I found it believable and I never felt like I was playing second fiddle.

Heck, would you really want Trahearne’s job? Sitting around in meetings trying to get the Orders to agree, except for a few missions he gets to go on with us? We get to have more fun by virtue of not being the coordinator who has to deal with all the annoying details. We’re free to go out and risk our necks a lot more, blow stuff up, and generally kick undead kitten.

Edit: Undead kittens? That’s…terrifying. :O

Wow, what an amazing video by Wooden Potatoes! (As usual!) He and the others who worked on it have made a fantastic tribute to Cantha. It’s great to see how many people have come here to support Cantha thanks to their good work! Thank you all for supporting the cause.

Let’s keep spreading the word here and on Reddit, YouTube, and Guild Wars 2 Guru!

On the subject of the upcoming “Dragon Bash,” which some of you have already mentioned… I do wonder if it gives us reason to be optimistic. I’m still hoping it’s our Dragon Festival, but maybe they are changing the nature of it to be “politically correct” because dragons are now seen as evil in Tyria. (Hmm changing Canthan content to please people who might offended…that’s not Anet sending a message at all, is it? Ok tinfoil hat off…) But if there are any vestiges of Canthan tradition at all, I’ll be happy.

Ideally it would be great to see the Dragon Fest/Bash lead into a living story plotline centering around the Great Collapse in DR. Maybe this is a leap on my part, but with all the NPC dialogue about a hidden threat lurking in the wreckage, it seems like prime material for a living story chapter. I can see it culminating in the rebuilding of the area like the rebuilt lion statue in LA. Maybe now that Anet has teams vetting game content for China it would be possible to use those resources to come up with a design for a rebuilt Canthan quarter that would meet with approval in Asia.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

It won’t end in a dungeon. We have however included an instance that will open up that has a single player version, and a more difficult multiplayer version.

I just have to chime in here and say a huge THANK YOU to the team for this decision! It is so hard to please everyone, but you have come up with a way. Heaps of kudos to you all at Anet for such a great solution.

I’ve been a mostly solo player since hero/henching my way through GW1, so this makes me very happy. But I absolutely agree there should be a healthy group dungeon community too and for the players who enjoy that, I’m very happy they get to enjoy their preferred content style in the Last Stand update, as well!

Jack of Tears.9458:

I would love ta see what they could do with the city in the new game – a whole zone as just one city? That would be awesome.

Yes it would! Or even about five maps that are all city, its own region about the size of GW2 Kryta. This vast urban sprawl always fascinated me in Factions. It was such an amazing departure from your typical fantasy game, but also not urban fantasy in the sense we think of it as in, modern urban world with magic stuff. Such a creative blend…like a martial arts movie with wizards and fantasy creatures. XD

I think with GW2’s Z axis, a lot of the city areas would be much less punishing than in the original game. Also, keep in mind when we first slogged our way through Bukdek Byway and Wajjun Bazaar, we only had henchman. After the introduction of heroes, things did get a bit more sane as far as difficulty went. Until Winds of Change, of course. Haha. Those WoC mobs…. >.<

Rebound.3409:

Cantha is still up and running otherwise he would say something at past tens or similar.

I think they forgot to delete this character lolo

From a lore perspective, that’s quite true. Cantha still exists but is simply cut off from the rest of the world by the continuation of Usoku’s isolationist policies and the small matter of a pesky elder dragon. Somewhere it mentions that Canthan castaways still wash up on Tyrian shores from time to time, proof that Cantha has not simply been wiped off the face of the earth.

I’m so glad NCSoft’s gripe with the architecture of the Canthan district did not lead to them requiring Anet to purge all Canthan characters and other evidence of Cantha’s existence from the game. NPCs like Hao Luen give me hope!

It’s not a remix, it’s the original. ^^ That’s the Norn Theme from Guild Wars: Eye of the North.

Makes me nostalgiac. <3

grifflyman.8102:

I almost feel like quitting knowing that my favorite zone won’t ever show up.

Take heart! The devs have not yet stated Cantha will NEVER return…just that it could be a long time in coming, and may need a lot of support from fans to make it back into the game. (You can check out the posts linked in my signature for Josh Foreman’s exact words on this…they are in this thread but not always easy to find among the many replies).

So what we can take from this is that it is up to us to keep the lines of communication open between us and the ANet team and keep up the energy and momentum behind our requests for Cantha in a constructive and positive way.

On that note, thank you to all the new and returning contributors to this thread. It is so great to read your posts and see your support for Cantha. The devs are listening!

Shanna.4762:

WTB more information on Cantha news!

Yes indeed! It would be really awesome to get another red post right about now… Maybe when Mr. Foreman is done with his vacation and the Super Adventure Box for this month, he will return to us.

Oldbugga.7029:

Analyzing why the OP needs privacy is not the issue….it is that his/her privacy has been compromised through game inadequacies that is…regardless of whatever consequences ensued. Focusing on those consequences will not resolve the issue.

Bingo. Why are so many people here criticizing the OP’s feelings about privacy? That is completely irrelevant to this thread. Come on, GW2 friends, we all learned this in Internet Kindergarten…it’s called “derailing” and in the same species is that organism called “flaming.”

The only relevant thing to discuss is whether or not the feature should be added and why/why not. Criticizing the OP’s personal feelings has no place here.

Please, let’s all be friendly and support each other, even when we disagree.

Hello again, fellow Canthan revolutionaries! So happy to see our megathread still thriving. ^^

Nick.6972:

We must keep this thread going.
Who remembers this song – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I17ZUalbY9s

Oh I do I do…I adore the Factions music so much. Jeremy Soule’s stuff is some of my favorite music ever, from anything, and his pieces for Factions are at the top of list.

VaileCearo.3819:

Sarys.6520:

My dear canthan revolutioners.
I’ve finished my fan-made music ! It will buff you for the pacific/lovely fight over here !

=> https://soundcloud.com/lzn02/gw2-dream-of-cantha

Take care !

O.o I see another musician. All the cookies sir! All the cookies. XD

Ah, you guys are so talented! Please keep inspiring our movement with epic themes to march to!

I was running around Divinnity’s Reach the other day and heard the dialogue that goes something like this:

“It’s so hard to find good Canthan cuisine anymore.”
“What do you expect? After 100 years without trade, it’s hard to keep things authentic.”
“My grandma used to make the best red bean cakes. I’d kill for one of those. I bet you think I’m joking.”
“I hear the, uh, Commons has some… I’d show but I…have to be…somewhere else! NOW. Good day!”

Yes. Cantha is just that important.

I totally support OP’s recommendations and the reasoning behind them. Snow White, you have made great suggestions here and done a great job explaining all the excellent reason for their inclusion in the game (in a very nice, rational and friendly manner, I might add!)

Real privacy controls are very important to some players, it’s probably safe to say many players.

These features are a huge benefit for everyone, because they a) protect privacy and b) protect the feelings of our friends we don’t want to hurt.

I don’t see how they can possibly disadvantage anyone, even those of you who feel that invisible status has no place in an online game. Surely it won’t hurt your game if those of us who want to log on as invisible are unavailable to you for a few minutes or hours. I bet there are lots of other people on your friends list who would be happy to hang out with you during that time.

Specifically, the ability to truly log in as offline is a staple of many social online gaming communities. Two examples off the top of my head — Guild Wars 1 and Steam. This is a standard feature that should not only be in GW2 (which it already is) but also function correctly so that invisible status functions like invisible status, instead of a “Do Not Disturb” sign.

Haha just like many of you here, I also created “descendants” of my GW1 characters. I envision my GW2 ele and necro as the descendants of my two Canthan mains from GW1, an ele and ritualist. (Alas, my rit had to make a career transition. :P)

Shanna.4762:

The thing about Cantha is it isn’t an “Asian stereotype” it’s based off the many Asian cultures, and is in no way the stereotypical “kungkittenpanda, crouching tiger hidden dragon, anime” kind of Asian ‘stereotypes’ you may see in other games.

darkace.8925:

Kaineng was a massive wooden slum, Eschovald had Gothic-esque architecture, and the Jade Sea had a Polynesian feel. Only the emporer’s palace and Shing Jea Island featured much stereotypical Asian architecture (pagodas, etc).

So true, on both points! This kind of goes back to the Orientalism debate earlier in this thread…while we all agree stereotypes are bad, I believe you cannot make the argument that Cantha or the Factions campaign was stereotypical! There are so many ways its originality really shines.

What other computer game, ever, featured a devoutly religious aristocracy with Eurasian aesthetics that lives in a stone forest full of evil plant guardians and builds Gothic cathedrals? What game ever featured a nomadic tribe of seafaring warriors who wander across a solidified ocean on the backs of giant turtles and crabs? (Okay, okay, I know you’re dying to crack a giant enemy crab joke. But I think you get what I’m saying.)

The cultures of Factions were so complex and beautiful, just like all the awesome worldbuilding that has gone into the current Tyria of GW2. Cantha is such rich material, just imagine if it got the GW2 treatment and became even more fully developed & realized.

@ensoriki, I’m so glad someone mentioned Tikark Orchard! I ADORE Vabbi and miss it so much. I was just replaying the first step of the noble human storyline in GW2 the other day, where you are at the party Faren throws and go around talking to all the intriguing NPCs, and I had a sudden flashback to Tihark. One of my favorite GW1 missions ever. I still run it in HM every time it’s a Zaishen Mission.

Shanna.4762:

Either way, I don’t think it’s going to do much to bury this topic as much as we wish we could get definitive answers on Cantha, it’s important that we still continue to discuss it and ask for Cantha. We can add this to the discussion, though!

I definitely agree this by no means buries the topic. If anything, the news that Anet is hiring an Asia-oriented developer only serves to raise more interest and questions about the Cantha issue. What will this mean for future Canthan content? A designer who can resolve the issues that kept Cantha from being included? (We can hope.) Hard to say.

That is certainly fascinating news though, bettadenu, thanks for sharing. I’m glad you agree with us that we must go back to Cantha. ^^ It will certainly be interesting to see how this hiring situation develops. With the devs being so visible in the community, we may see the very person they hire showing up here on the forums or in YouTube behind-the-scenes videos…maybe we will get a chance to ask him/her one day about what approach to Cantha might be taken for the Asian market.

Saogai.9105:

The problem with the negative reaction with the Cantha district was the fact that the original area appears as an East Asian “ghetto” towered over by Europeans walls and castle spires.

Thank you for sharing your perspective as an ethnic Chinese person. This point makes SO much sense and is really an interesting insight. It saddens me, because I certainly don’t think Cantha was ever meant to be portrayed as a ghetto, but I can definitely understand how the district in Divinity’s Reach could come across that way. Your post makes me think about the culturally complex situation underneath the seemingly simple “no” from NCSoft.

While I wholeheartedly disagree with the decision to exclude Cantha, I also feel it’s important to acknowledge that there can be meaningful political and cultural considerations involved that we simply can’t see from our cultural perspective. From the perspective of many of the players here, the removal of Canthan content seems like blatant and misguided censorship. Especially since the game seems willing to engage topics that are controversial in “western” society, like same-sex relationships, racial conflict and religious questions. Why shy away from backlash over architecture? But in the context of other cultures, in this case Asian, the sensitivities and expectations are different, and we have to try to understand that, as frustrating as it is.

Gele.2048:

i wanna kill kurzicks again xD

You arrogant Luxon! This proud Kurzick will meet you in the arena any day! fistshake ;D ;D

darkace.8925:

jheryn.8390:

Some may have already posted this, but I think Cantha would be very easy to do.

It’s not that it’s hard to do, it’s that they don’t want to do it (for whatever reason). They destroyed a finished, functional Canthan district in Divinity’s Reach; I’m guessing the same driving force behind that decision is the same driving the decision to abandon Cantha altogether.

Actually we have dev feedback on these very points.

First, they have not abandoned Cantha altogether!

They do want to do it (if you mean the devs), they said so in this thread.

Josh Foreman explained in an interview that the Canthan district was destroyed only because NCSoft (based on feedback from Asian audiences) said it could not stay as it was—so close to deadline apparently that Anet had no time to make changes, only take it out completely.

So the “driving force” appears to be this negative feedback from Asia about mixing different influences and architectural styles, a “cultural consideration” as Josh called it, but again, this is an issue that could be solved through design changes or might not be a problem in future. It does not mean Cantha has been ruled out.

Shoyoko, thanks so much for your detailed response! I was really frustrated by the kit refinement change just days after I discovered and learned to love your build. It’s great to hear you haven’t given up on it! Yes indeed, that is the mark of a true engineer, determination, adaptation, improvisation! ^^ We always have a new trick to pull out of our toolbox!

The detailed advice is great and I’ll do as you say, relying on good ol’ medkit 4 to supplement KR condition removal. That’s also a really good point about how medkit can work as a timer for the global cooldown! It would be great if we got a fix for the bugs in the new KR, but oh well, in the meantime we’ll keep being creative!

Just one more question, this time about gear. What accessories are you using with the knight’s armor and rampager pistols? Am I right to assume Berzerker to get that 55% crit damage you listed in the stats?

Thanks again for all the great info!

Zappix.7928:

Anyone remember the giant rat that would run on a wheel and it would take you to another part of the Kurzick forest?

Haha just had to add, found this on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwfhSrjyrbU

Nostalgia!

Also, Mhenlo. <3

@Zappix, thank you for your support!

Shanna.4762:

psyt.9415:

“ArenaNet isn’t going to develop a traditional expansion for Guild Wars 2 any time soon. “Expansions are definitely something that we’ll potentially look at in the future,” game director Colin Johanson told IGN. “We don’t have a timetable on it. We’re open to it, but I think our major focus as a studio is making the living world concept as strong as we possibly can for the players that we’ve got.”

Yeah, but he also said they’re working on other updates as well and considering Southsun was a new region in an update that will also have lot’s going on in the relatively near future, it’s not too far fetched to imagine we could get at least some Canthan content in a free update. In some ways it is actually exciting that they haven’t begun official production on a paid expansion yet, because that leaves open the possibility Cantha could come sooner than later in the expansion timetable when they do have one. Also, they could end up working on stuff that amounts to a paid expansion organically, some of that could be content they’re already working on! Who knows? That’s part of why it’s so exciting

Great point, Shanna. There are so many exciting possibilities for how Anet can deliver content for us. I love the organic, immersive approach they’re taking. Just imagine a Canthan living story! Canthan artifacts begin washing up on shore in Lion’s Arch as teaser content…fans hit the forums to try and decipher the meaning behind them! As Anet rolls out more updates, new NPCs appear to recruit players for an upcoming voyage of exploration. Before you know it, a fleet is heading for Cantha with groups of players aboard, and a new map opens up….

Psyt, you might want to check out the dev posts in this thread if you haven’t already. Josh Foreman said the team does want to work on Cantha again eventually. As he put it, it is “worth asking for” and I would add to that, “worth waiting for” however Anet chooses to pull this off. My excitement for it sure isn’t going to wear off in the mean time!

Maybe not every GW2 player agrees with the love for Cantha expressed in this thread, but I would hope that anyone who dislikes Cantha would still support bringing it back for the sake of players who do love it and the ways it could make the game stronger.

Case in point: I can’t stand PvP or WvW. At all. Do I resent the use of Anet’s resources to develop them? No way! PvP and WvW are really important to a lot of players. I want them to get the high quality PvP experience they deserve. I want my friends who are PvP fans to get to enjoy their favorite part to of the game. And a happy PvP community makes the community as a whole stronger, and the same goes for a happy PvE community.

So if you don’t like Cantha, I invite you to have a positive attitude about it in support of your fellow Guild Wars fans. Tell me what part of the game is your favorite, and I will do the same for you. There is room for Guild Wars 2 to grow and embrace what many players want, even though it may take a long time because Anet has to prioritize their use of resources.

That said, I think this thread is actually very strong evidence that people care about Cantha and support its return. These forums are full of people who just love to disagree with what’s been posted in a thread. More often than not, an OP’s message will be buried under a crowd arguing against his/her opinions. And yet, the majority of the people came to this thread to support Cantha, not express their loathing for it. The positive tone of the thread and the ongoing outpouring of support, which consistently appears on the first page, is really impressive, and wonderful to see.

Edit: I would also like to point out the very significant fact that many of the devs want to bring Cantha back, which is a pretty strong argument in its favor. ;P

First of all, thanks for posting this build. I tried it out in PvE the other day and had a great time! I play engineer and ele mostly, so all the kit switching felt pretty natural to me, and I enjoyed the active play style a lot. Made a nice change from my usual pistols and elixirs condition/support build!

My question to OP is, have you tweaked this build since the recent change to kit refinement and if so, what do you suggest to make up for the new cooldowns on FT/EG condition removal?

Thanks again for sharing the build and any post-update tips you have.

I completely agree, OP! I love the new dailies. The daily achievement has always been something I really enjoyed, and I think the changes only made them better.

I think you all are right about the problem being how people approach the daily, which is a shame, really. It’s important to analyze our own attitudes toward the game ask ourselves, about our own approach to playing, “is it fun?” I think we all get too driven sometimes (myself included).

I challenge anyone to sit down, play the way they normally do, and then see how close they are to finishing the daily by the time they’re ready to log off. It’s almost always possible to get it without specifically trying, if we let ourselves do it the fun way instead of looking at it as more check boxes.

Have you guys read the new official blog post about the living story?!

“In order to make this easier on ourselves, and on you, we’ll be introducing a set of characters specific to the Living Story, at the end of March. Hint: one’s a norn, and one’s a charr. I’m not going to tell you more than that right now, but know that you will soon be meeting the first two of these characters, and we hope you like them as much as we do.”

IT’S TOTALLY TYBALT COMING BACK FROM THE DEAD!!

Okay. Probably not. But we can have our wishful thinking. ;P

Just want to say a BIG thank-you to the Anet team for taking time to fix this bug when they have so many higher priorities on the to-do list. My ele is now rocking her exotic, transmuted flame eye.

Thanks for your continued replies, Jason, and for working on these small concerns that we players care about. ^^

Yay, another thread asking that world completion be about exploring the beautiful, immersive world of Tyria instead of killing your fellow players!

I agree with you OP and have been saying the same thing since launch. Hopefully we will eventually be heard.

There are so many reasons why it makes no sense for WvW to be included in this achievement. World exploration is geared toward PvE-oriented players who are unlikely to enjoy PvP, and requiring us to enter WvW doesn’t inspire us to try something new, it just makes us frustrated.

And WvW, which is in the mists, isn’t even part of Tyria, so it doesn’t make sense lorewise either. ;P

I say, give badges and other good stuff to players who love WvW if they complete POIs and vistas in the mists! And let us PvE folks stay where we can face off with monsters instead of our fellow members of the GW2 community.

BioFringe.7945:

I believe that that would be what the check-boxes within the monthly tab suggest.

That’s what I’m hoping too! But it’s hard to tell, since you can use the check-boxes on other achievements, too, like mini-pet collector or slayer… Is it just a choice of what you can display in your achievement tracker? Or is it a hint of great things to come?

Shanna.4762:

Zappix.7928:

Thank you, I liked Komir’s character and the whole Sunspear thing. She’s a newish God perhaps her more human side could become emotional and take an approach at rebuilding the Sunspear army and your character could be the bridge to do that?

It would be pretty neat, I like Kormir because of that very reason, she was human at one point and is the newest out of all the gods she would be the most likely to take a more proactive approach to the mortals plights than the other gods are, going forward. I hope to see more done with her both in Elona, and other regions. Maybe Anet can do something that makes her more popular now. I’m also interested in seeing worship of Kormir has spread to other regions of the world, like Cantha, or anywhere else outside Kryta.

Same here, that’s also what I found so appealing about her character. She’s not like the older, more distant gods, she’s one of us who now has cosmic power to intervene on our behalf! I also love her “truth and knowledge” theme (that’s why I picked her for the patron goddess of my human Durmand Priory character ).

That’s a really interesting question about whether her worship caught on in Cantha, too!

I’m really curious to see how she is handled in light of the fact that the gods have all but disappeared. Were they beaten back by the elder dragons? Or did they leave on purpose? If so, wouldn’t Kormir be the goddess to not back out of human affairs so willingly? Wouldn’t she go down fighting for what was once her own kind?

I can’t say enough about how much I love the new structure for daily achievements and the way it supports the “play your way” philosophy.

I was wondering, do we have any word on whether the same structure will be applied to monthly achievements eventually? Getting to choose whether you wanted to do dungeons instead of WvW kills or events instead of fractals would be awesome and, I think, make a lot of people happy.

Shanna.4762:

Zappix.7928:

As for Elona? The orders of Tyria band together and receive an urgent warning from the Whispers contacts in Elona asking for an alliance to other throw Joko, take down a Dragon or help rebuild the Sunspears. Maybe Komir could have some kind of role in this?

I also would like to see more built on Kormir, as well both in Elona and Cantha, as well as everywhere else.

It’s really nice to see someone supporting the idea of Kormir being involved, and I agree. I am always kind of surprised that some fans didn’t like her character. That was really news to me, because I thought she was really interesting and complex, especially for a female computer game character (let’s face it, not everyone is as good as Anet at making female characters sympathetic and non-stereotypical ). It would be awesome for her now-goddess self to be involved in some way. I mean, on the list of GW1 characters that are still alive, she’s one of the few! It would be nice for her to be around somewhere!

ScribeTheMad.7614:

I would honestly push for them to be fired for crimes against world building.

That is an awesome way of saying it, honestly. There may not be a real law in defense world-building, but there is in the minds of fans, and we are determined to enforce it! ;D

As you and others have said, with Zhaitan out of the way, it makes sense for us to go to Cantha next. In fact, now that you mention it, it wouldn’t make any sense at all if we didn’t go back to Cantha. I know they are isolationist and determined to keep people out, but when did that ever stop humans on the Tyrian continent, Asura businessmen, or enterprising Norn from doing whatever they pleased? It would be hard to believe that no on on Tyria would take advantage of the new chance to get to Cantha, whether to exploit the trade opportunity or simply reconnect with the land of their ancestors, or to earn renown for ambitious exploration. It would be hard to come up with a logical explanation why this wouldn’t happen.

Yes, aversion to mixing cultures doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, but then, I live in a country where “melting-pot” is the natural habitat. Still, the Kurzicks were German/Russian/Asians…wow, what an epic combo. O.O And Europeans don’t complain. Kryta is in no way “pure” Europe, it’s a formerly South American/jungle culture-turned-pseudo-European. The Sylvari are vaguely Celtic people who live in a jungle. The very creative, sometimes illogical, but always appealing blend of influences in this game set the stage for Cantha to draw from all kinds of Asian aesthetics and history, and it makes me sad that the Asian players/CEOs/whoever were not comfortable with it the way everyone else in other countries apparently is. It’s hard to judge other people by our cultural standards, so I am trying to look at it from their perspective, but I don’t understand yet. I just hope Anet can come up with a solution that will please everyone, so we can get Cantha back!!

Sinifair.1026:

Personally, I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of Tyria’s map opening up (the Crystal desert and Ring of Fire islands especially) and the two other maps, Cantha and Elona, as well.

Same here! If you support Cantha and Elona coming back, you might want to chime in at this thread that the devs are following. We would also really appreciate your support on the petition linked in my signature!

I’m totally optimistic about the direction of the game, aside from that discouraging news about Cantha. GW1 only got better with each update and expansion, and I expect the same of GW2. I’m glad the devs released the “skeleton,” so to say, of the game and are improving it in a live environment with player feedback, rather than sitting on it for months longer and releasing what they considered “perfect” without the benefit of the give and take between community and developers. I enjoy the game as it is (for a skeleton, it’s kitten amazing!) and agree with their approach to making it better. It’s like an ongoing work of art that we get to watch them build…and even help them sculpt.

Shanna.4762:

I remember when the game was launching and I was roaming around the Sylvari lands that I had a feeling some of the mystery of the Sylvari and Pale Tree would be in Cantha. It would be really cool if that were the case!

Definitely! I can see many Sylvari being called on a Wyld Hunt to use their nature/growth magic to restore Echovald as it “thaws” from stone. The folks over in the Cantha lore threads could probably come up with more details about this, but it seems like there are tons of possibilities. I wonder what connections there could be between the magic of Echovald itself and the magic of the Pale Tree? Are there other life-giving trees in existence in Cantha? Could any of the plant beings of Echovald be related to Sylvari in any way? So much potential here.

I’ve never stopped playing GW1. Like others have said here, I had tons of fun during Canthan New Year getting the new ranger pet and collecting Celestial minis. I also finally managed to locate and buy an undedicated mini Yakkington, which has been one of my goals forever. <3 He is so squee! As long as there are no mini dolyaks in GW2, I will have to keep playing the original.

Really though, my reason is mainly that my love for the first game is still there. After spending so many years and thousands of hours, it would be too sad and nostalgiac if it was completely in the past. I prefer to keep the memories current. I’m lucky that the community aspect hasn’t changed for me, really. I always soloed a lot or played with only a few close friends/family members (they all still play GW1 too). I did everything solo with heroes/henchman even when it was easy to find PUGs, lol. Or played it with my tiny group of best guildies.

Also, Cantha is my favorite continent, and there is no Cantha in GW2. So as long as that’s true, I will have no motivation to move on from GW1. Sometimes I just have to make myself feel better by visiting Old LA, Drok’s and all the other places that are underwater ruins and especially going back to Cantha, since it’s now been cut off. I need to see everything bustling and not destroyed and all our favorite characters not reduced to gravestones, otherwise GW2 gets me down. I adore the new game and agree that I’m sooo spoiled on the improved gameplay, but storywise I think they went a little overboard with the “everything you loved in the first game is GONE! Weep for the good old days!” Some people find that elegiac sort of lore very appealing, but what can I say, I’m sentimental like that and find it very sad.

Completely agree! Mr. North does a fantastic job! When I found out Mhenlo’s voice actor from GW1 was doing the male human player character in GW2, I already knew who my main was going to be.

I love it when my engineer tosses down a turrent and says, “Another fine example of engineering!” or, after a combo, “That went better than I expected!” It’s amazing how Mr. North infuses so much personality and “cool factor” into those one-liners. Not to mention all the cutscenes, where he sounds like he is really invested in what’s at stake in the story. Makes you feel like your character is a real hero and a darn awesome guy.

Stormscar.5489:

(I still get chills when I go in Vabbi:D).

Me too!! When I read the early press releases about GW2 saying Vabbi had been destroyed and Cantha was cut off, I was convinced I would hate the new game. Years of waiting, many BWEs and hundreds of hours of gameplay later, I’m happy to say I was very wrong about GW2! But I still miss Vabbi and Cantha and the thought of them still makes me sad.

Safer Saviour.9685:

the sylvari (Echovald = Pale Tree?)

I think my brain just exploded with the lore implications. :O Awesome idea!

Not to mention the eternal question…is Kuunavang in any way related to the elder dragons?

Out of curiosity, do any of you guys have or know of a video of the old Factions login screen? I would love to see it again! I searched but only found screenshots so far, not a video of the full animation.

Shanna.4762:

A lot of people feel left in the dust when it comes to revisiting places from GW1 in GW2, I agree, I also would rather go back to the places I loved in GW1 and see them now 250 years later in lore years. As I’ve said before, I’m open to new places but it can be hard to remember it’s the same world most of the time, until you happen upon a small area from the first game and usually a lot of it is destroyed and ruins. I would rather see more of the old places fully in tact even if they’ve changed or evolved to varying degrees and I think Cantha is a good opportunity for this. It’s an ancient culture, and it’s been in isolation for two centuries. It’s entirely possible & most likely that it would not have changed much aesthetically, they may not even be industrializing yet like some of the other areas are beginning to, and there could be less poverty due to the reforms of the past..

Well said, Shanna. This is exactly how I feel a lot of the time. I love GW2 but the loss of connection with many GW1 places and characters is often saddening. I wish Drok’s and old LA and all our favorite places weren’t in ruins…although I’d rather them be there at all, even in their current sad state, than be completely forgotten and left behind.

You’re right, Cantha could be a great opportunity to preserve even more of the feeling and maybe even locations of the original game. Cantha is very old and, for all those reasons you’ve stated, is unlikely to have changed very much. I don’t know if that’s the direction Anet would choose to go, but I would hope they would. I could easily see Tahnnakai Temple, Raisu Palace, and Shing Jea still being there, as they had for a long time already in GW1, and coexisting with all the awesome new elements the designers come up with to make the new Cantha game revolutionary.

Thanks also for reminding us what Josh said in regard to Blade & Soul. I had forgotten he addressed that specifically, you’re right!

Good points about a) NCSoft, not Anet is the problem here and b) about competition for Blade & Soul. I could definitely see NC not wanting GW2 to steal attention from the new “totally Asian” MMO.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

“NcSoft was adamant to keep it universal”.

Also, we don’t know for sure if this quote is true. Our source for it is a YouTube comment by someone reporting that a dev said it to them in-game (no screenshots). It could have happened, of course, but we don’t know for sure.

What we know for sure from devs is that the Canthan district of Divinity’s Reach had to be taken out and a Canthan expansion “could be years away.”

We are left to wonder just how firm NC’s no-Cantha policy is. Maybe I’m being too optimistic but that gives me hope NC hasn’t totally vetoed it.

nolop.8095:

There are sheer endless opportunities to expand and improve the open world experience. And thats just Kaineng City.
Echovald Forest and the Jade Sea would be even more awesome. What happened to the Luxon vs. Kurzick Fight.

I know! When I read that Kurzick and Luxon culture has been totally assimilated and our “Factions” essentially don’t exist anymore, it made me sad. We spent so many hours of gameplay building those allegiances, and now it’s all in the past. I would love to see both these cultures on the GW2 scale, so I hope they aren’t totally gone. Kurzick cathedrals…Luxon armadas…what is the GW world without them?

Absolutely, Shanna. Yes, let’s keep the positive, constructive feedback coming! Seeing the momentum of this thread is very encouraging. It’s been on the first or second page of the forums for days now, and it’s great so see all the outpouring of support and love for Cantha.

Zhaneel.9208:

A GW2 version of Cantha would be a dream come true for many people here, I think.

Well said, Zhaneel! It honestly would. I think everyone here understands how much the worlds and stories in a computer game can mean to people. Sounds like Cantha is that way for a lot of us.

Reading everyone’s speculations here, I want this game so much. Jumping puzzles in Wajjun Bazaar and Bukdek Byway? Underwater battles in the Jade Sea? The beauty of Shing Jea Island and Raisu Palace in the new game engine? Please, NCSoft, please!

When (optimism!) we get to go back, I hope Tahnnakai Temple still exists and is still home to the spirits of the great heroes of Cantha,
especially...Master Togo and Vizu. This would be an even more awesome moment than getting to meet Ogden again in the Durmand Priory.

I would also love to see the Ritualist profession return. One of my mains was a Rit, and although my main is now an Engineer, and I do love the similarity of playstyle, there is simply no comparison of the aesthetic. Turrets and guns are no replacement for shiny blue spirits channeled from the Mists.

I have to say I would love to see Elona again too. Vabbi was my favorite place in the game after Cantha, and hearing what Palawa Joko has done to it make me want my chance for revenge! Maybe we’ll find the Hidden City survived and there are still some vestiges of the beauty we saw there in the first game…

Keep up the great feedback everyone!

ThiBash.5634:

So basically, you’re saying we cannot add it to the game because we don’t have a proper understanding of the Asian culture?

Hi, ThiBash, I’m not sure if you’re addressing Ratphink or me since you’re quoting us both. But if you were writing this to me, I want to point out that if you read the rest of my post, I actually argue the exact opposite of what you just said. I want Cantha back and believe Anet will do a great job. I think leaving Cantha out is just as bad as putting it in and portraying it in a way that is stereotypical or insensitive. I also don’t think the original Factions game was an example of Orientalism. I thought Elona and Cantha added depth and multiculturalism, not stereotypes, to the original Guild Wars.

I do think it’s worthwhile to discuss the problem of Orientalism in context of fantasy games, just like it’s worthwhile to talk about sexism, racism, prejudice against the GLBT community or any other real-life issue. Computer games do reflect real-life attitudes and they do influence people’s opinions about real life. If a game is sexist, I don’t give it a free pass just because it’s not about real women in a real culture. If a game were to endorse one race oppressing another, I’d call it racism, it doesn’t matter if the people are fantasy races instead of real human ethnic groups.

I love that Anet has made a game that is complex and sensitive and leads to meaningful conversations about these things.