Guild Wars 2

It looks like the Waypoint bug is still active on Alpine maps. This is something Anet should look into. Waypoints to opposing teams locations become open and can be exploited. We have seen this in bay and yes it works. You can waypoint right into the opposing teams keep. I am not sure if this is happening with all keeps on Alpine maps, but I have seen it on Bay.

Gracious.4279:

Dragonbrand has no honor… We are outnumbered in Ebay BL, and they still feel the need to send someone to start fortify at our keep, and then drain supply by building rams. haha its pretty awful.

Lol I thought you were talking about me trying to build a way point in your garry the other morning when you broke in and i queued a few things just to eat the supply before you flipped it…

I was soooo close to getting a WP up in your garry Ah well maybe next time.

If someone is doing that crap every commander and player I know on DB would be happy to see said cheater get the ban stick. So please report that kind of thing when you see it. Some of us are in the process of trying to get an entire BP guild banned for zoom hacking. I wont mention any names, but you are not that hard to find.

What busts me up is people are acting like this is something new… Warriors have been able to do this since day 1. It is just becoming popular again.

I have seen evasive builds with a lot of escape ability from almost every class.

Its busts me up that even something that has been out since the beginning will find someone to bust out the QQ nerf cries.

I am not even going to suggest the standard L2P. I’m just going to shake my head in sorrow for the world being burdened with this kind of sadness.

I am just excited that you guys are doing actual public testing before releasing a big update like this. I hope the community gives you guys a lot of solid and constructive feedback to help make it an awesome release.

Some of us on DB are going to see if we can organize a under 20 upscale zerg to flip all the maps one of these nights.. Should be some fun stuff

You know what happens to an Asura when you hit them with a hammer? Same thing that happens to everyone else..

I think having a default mode would be a really good option though. People that like how their little drowned rat looks can keep that and people that would like to have animations that can be read and reacted to get what they want. Its really a win win for everyone.

I am sorry, but every time I see the results of the reward chest I just kinda lol inside.

All those guilds that jumped servers, and all the guilds that paid to have them jump servers just for the rewards kind of got what they deserved. I nice big chest of shut the kitten up.

This “WvW Season” was a great idea, but not locking down the servers and having mass migrations made it simply a very sad several weeks to be honest. I am not saying that It was not a good idea, but a bit more forethought needs to be put into events such as this by the development group. The net result was people flocking to the servers they thought would win so they could get an EZ card and free uber lewtz, and not locking down the servers to prevent guild poaching has resulted in the near destruction of several servers WvW population. Not just from transfers, but from guilds getting sick of being run over by 3 and 4 times their numbers simply because of greed.

Kikkah.2306:

Prior to my old post from a few hours ago i took some time to work everything out players asked here and some thing i trowed in for myself.

If you look at the images in this album it will give you a clear view of how it could look like (from my opinion)
http://imgur.com/a/O9WQP

• Supply Info & Squad/Player Info
  On the right side of the main screen image i added a ‘Supply Count’ & ‘Player Count’ this is a replacement for /squadinfo and /supplyinfo cause in the heat of battle you rather not want to type! (As extra i added a simple supply count on top that will show after your own supplies.)

• Create Squad
  On the left side of the main screen image you see the new and improved ‘create a squad’ here you can select if you rather be a General Commander which everybody can see, or you rather be a Guild Commander which only guild members see.
  As you can see on the left side you can select ‘General Commander’ or ‘Guild Commander’ by this you can decide who can see your tag or not.

• Colored Commander Tags
  You can also change to color if your tag if you bought the additional books for 10g each on the left side as well.

• Squad Boosts
  For players in a squad they get a extra 10% WXP boost this will make players join squads more and make more use of it. This is added on the bottom of the image.

• Team Warning (Raid Warning)
  I know this is a copy from other MMO’s but its same like the scarlet invasion give commander a change to use this in order to get people there attention. This can be seen in the middle of the image. Take in consideration that this can be abused so a good system has to be build for this.

• Simple Commander UI
  For players who rather not have all this fancy stuff they should be able to put it off in the options menu like Simple Party UI

Please give me feedback on anything you would like to add or see me to change. I will try my best with my limited photoshop skills ;D

I agree with about every point you make there, except for one. Being charged per color is simply not needed. After paying 100 gold you should have the color options by default.

My reasoning is this. In WvW or PVE the ability to assign different colors to different commanders makes everything run smoother, and will increase players experience with the game.

Over all the most consistent requests are:

Make commander tags Account bound. Commanders often bring different classes for different roles in an event. Personally I have already spent 200 gold on tags, and for someone that spends the majority of their time in WvW that is a fairly large cash sink.

In WvW enemy players should not be able to identify you as a commander simply by clicking on you and looking at your buff bar. Personally I do not think you should be able to see any personal information about the enemy player. Their buffs, Class or that big KILL ME commander icon. The only information you should see is Server Invader / Defender [guild]

Color or Icon options. Allow players to designate a commanders roll and make it easier for those in the event to identify the commander of a given task. If Icons will take a lot of work put that in the down the road section, but Color options at the very least would be a massive boon to the commanders and the community as a whole.

Much larger /supplyinfo range… or better yet a small window that shows the number of players in your squad and how much combined supply they have.

Changing the color of the squad members on the mini map to match the color of the commanders icon they are following. This would be another huge boon for commanders and player alike.

Allow commanders to designate Public, Squad or Guild visibility of their commander tag. Each of those options has its place, and would allow guild groups to do their own thing and not disrupt other commanders by drawing players away from them.

Server: DB
League: Silver
Enjoyed: No
Do again: I don’t think I will have a choice.

What do I like? The only thing I have liked about this is the concept.

What do I dislike? This might take a few….

The massive imbalance is match-ups.

The open bribery to transfer to servers. Our Server and many others lost guilds to gold league servers after being paid to transfer… Of course we lost a few guilds to other silver league servers as well, but in almost every case there losing them might be seen as an upgrade in quality for our server.

The self centered achievements that promote solo play that has NOTHING to do with any PPT objectives.

How about achievements like:
Kill X enemy players while defending a tower.
Upgraded X number of supply camps.
Escorted X number of yaks safely
X number of supply camps held against enemy attack.

etc etc. All of those would promote Objective play not OMG squirrel!!!!

But as for myself.. The imbalance of these match-ups combined with the guild piracy and population issues has really made me sit and think about even participating in WvW at all. What is the point of putting in all that time and effort when you know a 60+ man zerg is coming by when you only have 15 or so on to defend a map? People can argue that skill vs size will win, but that is simply false. If server A has 60+ and server B has less than 20 the 60 will win through pure attrition.

My server has had entire guilds simply stop being involved in WvW because there is no fun in getting rolled by 2 to 3 times your population week after week.

If Anet doesn’t do something about the population balance issues and keeps on with the same match-ups WvW will simply not be a viable option for players on my server to have any kind of fun with GW and for many of us the only reason we are here is for the WvW. So that leaves us with no reason to stay with GW2 at all.

Why not add some really simple base things such as gaining EXP from PVP? You already do this with Crafting. Allowing players to completely ignore all content to level a toon to 80. Why not give PVPers EXP for PVP. You might actually get more PVPers venturing out of the mist into WvW or PVE that way.

I think #1 needs a small damage boost, but not much.

2. I would love to see split blade not “split” or apply the 6 stacks of bleeds to all targets it hits instead of 1 stack per blade like it does now. If they changed it to applies 6 stacks on all targets hit that would make the axe far more competitive.

3. Is fine.

4. Needs travel time sped up a bit the return hit misses way to often. Or add a cripple effect to the out going hit.

5. needs the root effect removed and damage increased. 4-5K damage for a channeled ability that roots you? 100 bro’s (yes I know the proper name, but like calling it that instead) can be reduced to under a 7 second recharge and hit for over 7K consistently. At least make the skill compete with that.

Other than that Axe is probably the most solid group fight weapon we have atm. Gives range, hits up to 3 targets with auto and adds a bit of condi and CC.

Azure.8670:

I agree with you 100% on the spirit part, but not on the pets. I actually used to say the SAME EXACT thing you just said about pet but ive changed my mind over the months. A Ranger without the Pet system is just a thief without the stealth and half the damage. The Pet what keeps people moving. Honestly, the Ranger has improved leaps and bounds since release. At launch people didnt bother with anything other than sb/lb, now I see Rangers (myself included) take down guardians with a greatsword. Our pets are a great bonus. They are annoying to micro manage, but if you dont want that than play another class. <—- I HATE saying that, but in this instance its true.

I would strongly disagree with you on a ranger with out a pet is a thief with out stealth. Very different play styles. I play Ranger, Thief, Guardian and Warrior. In PVE, WVW and Spvp.

I Agree pets can be an asset, but they are also used to justify lack of action on many of the issues with in the class. There are many mechanics that really need worked on, and these issues have been beaten into the ground dozens of times so I will not go into them now.

I have seen and run the GS build for rangers. What it is really good at is catching people by surprise. They don’t expect a ranger to get in their face, but as far as rolling Guardians that is a bit of a surprise. The reason I say this is I have never had a GS ranger do more than 2K top end to my guard. One symbol heals me for 1.6K and does about the same amount of damage. Auto attack hits for about 900-1.2K and heals me for another 1,200. Every time I use a Meditation I heal for another 2600. And my Heal hits for almost 10K. In other words I heal faster than you can hit. It might work against a glass cannon Guard, but I find it difficult to believe against a bunker. Now with a SB you have a much better chance, but If you are talking about a power/crit GS build then better hope you are not up against a bunker.

There are many traits that really need to be reworked and moved around, and while I do not feel that Rangers are alone in this boat It is one of the classes I do play and so it is very much something I am aware of.

Here is my argument. Why should a player be forced into a play style because of the pet? On my warrior I can run power/crit, Condi/CC, bunker, bunker/condi, Shout or banner builds or CC/power builds and they are all viable. Ranger has?

On my Thief I can run high DPS/ Survival/condi/ranged and still pull better numbers with better burst than on my ranger with out having to micro manage anything.

So why should so many builds be really handicapped by a very choppy AI? Pet and mobs tracking/AI in the game are shall we say for lack of a more polite way of putting it.. Not on par with the industry.

Are there ways to fix it? Absolutely. They could start by making little changes such as changing melee range on pets to compensate for movement, and reducing the animation time on attacks. Increasing base HP on the pet especially now that they are not designed to hold agro, and several other small changes that would make it really worth having. If my damage is heavily based on the pet then it should not simply be one AOE from death all the time.

If they are not going to fix the issues with the pet at least give players an OPTION to not use it. I am not saying take it away, but if you gave players the option of a flat over all damage increase or keeping the pet as it is now. I think Anet would be surprised at how many rangers would be running around with out one.

What I am talking about would let you play with your pet. It would let people who do not want to micromanage their pet the freedom to play with out one, and in the end give more players a more satisfying gaming experience.

What is wrong with that?

Wiseman.4870:

Laiboch.4380:

This build isn’t new.

Yea It is, As i said it was isired on other Builds but there are some diferences.

No it really is not. I use to run almost this exact build with 1 trait difference. I didn’t use spotter.

I know everyone wants to think they came up with something new and exciting, but This build is neither new or exciting. I have actually seen this build posted several times since I have been playing.

20/30/20… Is not new. The traits you took in this build are not new. The weapon set you use is not new. Neither is using Rampage crit/condi gear.

The name is new though…

I am all for coming up with idea’s but please don’t take a Big Mac put it in a new box, and call it a Big Bob expecting that people will think you really came up with something new.

I (and many many others on these forums) have run about every combo you can think of just to see what happens. I have run spirit, crit/condi, power/crit, power/tough, tough/condi, bunker, and even rolled BM for about 5 min before I had to run to the bathroom and vomit… I just felt ill and dirty for rolling that build for even those 5 min. Mostly because it requires next to 0 skill to play.

Again Its really good to see people posting builds, but there is nothing, and I mean nothing original about this build.

The best thing Anet could really do with Spirit ranger is remove the spirit. I do not mean the ability, but the actual little tree spirit that is summoned. Instead make It like an Attunement. Lets Say the ranger takes the 10 point trait to improve spirits. Instead of having to summon a little tree every 60 seconds that lasts 60 seconds… The ranger Channels the force of said spirit through themselves. Making them kind of a banner so to speak. So should a ranger take Frost and Earth spirits the ranger and everyone with in range would receive the benefit of the Ranger’s attunements. They could still use the active ability on the same 30 second timer, but would no longer have a herd of little tree’s following them everywhere they go. Its all about synergy. Bringing something to groups and the ability to play with the same effectiveness as other classes with out having more conditions placed on them for equal performance.

Rangers have a lot of checks in place limiting what they can and cannot do. In all honesty more than most other classes. They have a check in place on damage having to micro manage their pet to keep it alive to keep their damage on par with other classes that simply do not have to worry about those things. Unlike Warrior Banners Ranger spirits can be killed. Why? Why is the Ranger the poster child for 2 steps forward 3 steps back? They cannot trait into their elite skills.

I am not saying rangers cannot be effective as a class. There are several people that have proven that, but what I am saying is that it takes way way more work to be almost as effective as other classes that do not have to invest nearly the resources into being effective.
Anet should also give Rangers the option of being a pet or non pet class. It would be incredibly simple. Simply make pets a 10 point trait in the BM line. Problem solved. Not everyone wants to micro manage a pet. So a player who wants and plays with a pet would get the benefits of having said pet, and a player who does not want the pet would get the benefit of being a “Lone Wolf” receiving a damage increase to bring them on par with the Damage they are supposed to have with the pet. With how much the pet misses a simple 15% damage buff would probably be more than sufficient.

Of all the classes the Ranger seems to be the most pigeon holed class.With its role being defined for the player rather than being defined by the players. The point behind having skill points and skill tree’s is to allow the player to create their own niche. Their own play style. Anet seems to release classes with out the intent of letting players create their own builds, but sill having the illusion of that freedom. One has only to look at the current meta to see that in action.

I really like being able to plant them instead of have them follow me around. They just die way to easy if you have them following you around.

This build isn’t new.

1. Each class is unique
-despite skill mechanics not being all that complicated, each class manages to be vastly unique in their own way, and the play style changes drastically. ANet has done a great job making them so special.

I can agree with that on a basic level. Although many abilities are simply copy/paste with a slightly different animation. Several classes have their traits very well placed and have far more options on viable builds than other classes. It almost seems that what ever the FOTM class is for the Dev’s that quarter gets OP while others are clearly neglected and in desperate need of assistance. Condition Spam has become the meta because it is simply to easy to build stacks and access to cleansing abilities are no where near as prevalent.

2. Combat is fluid and responsive
- Combat is fluid as heck, both PVE and PVP. I love how mobile all my characters are, despite many skills having mini channels.

For some classes more so than others. Several classes have excellent combat flow while others are fairly chunky and feel choppy.

3. ANet doesn’t crank up the numbers
- You think it’s really hard to beef up a class? It’s actually quite simple: you crank up the numbers. Rather than taking the short cut, the temporary way, I love how ANet takes a very in-depth approach towards balance

Here I have to politely disagree. Take the current condition spam meta. Because of Anet adding more conditions and or access to those conditions to some classes more than others they have effectively done exactly that. They have “Pumped up numbers”. Of all the aspects of this game the single most broken mechanic is Condition Damage. It has turned Team PVP into a who can spam the most conditions instead of strategy. Team PVP rewards Zerging. A Zerging team Can and Will get more points for a match even when they lose. So Anet rewards brainless zerging, and the team that plays objectives gets shafted on points. Vitality is supposed to be the “counter” to conditions, but several classes can pile up thousands of points worth of conditions in seconds.

4. PVP maps are varied
- You may argue that since they’re all conquest modes, they’re essentially the same. Many people don’t give ANet enough credit for their very careful placement of each box, cliff, each bump that they had meticulously thought out. You don’t see a single aspect of each map that doesn’t have a purpose.

Here I must politely disagree again. We have different maps, but the exact same base concept. Capture point A, B and C. Are there differences in the maps? Yes some small cosmetics and minor tweak in theme, but honestly after you have run one you have run them all.

The one map where some new idea’s were brought in received so much QQ they removed it from Tournament rotation because OMG someone might have to change a trait! Nooooooooo!!!!!! Not that! Anything but not being able to run your “I’m a Google rock star” build.

I mean Could you just see people not being able to run their Lolcondispam4tw build and actually having to play a build that requires more than one active neuron firing in that a A.D.D YouTube infested void many call their mind? What makes me truly sad is watching someone roll the DumbBurn Necro 30/30/10 build and trying to say it takes skill. Really? What takes skill is running a class that is weaker in every way and rolling said DumbBurn Necro FOTM fail.

5. ANet listens to the 95% rather than the 5%
- This can be seen as a good or a bad. I personally didn’t really like how most of the PVP gear is so easily accessible for most players. But most people – especially casual players – can really appreciate how you don’t have to be running from area to area, or having to hit certain rating in PVP to be able to buy high end looking armors (tPVP chests, anyone?). Same can be said about many other aspects of the game that are given almost as ‘freebies’ to players, while not in other games (lack of transportation, dyeing options, skin giveaways, etc.)

I agree with you on most of that. They do listen to people wanting more activities in PVE, but over all in PVP its run map A, B, and C where you capture point A, B and C and then look at the score after winning and see the zergers got double your score.

Honestly I have been getting bored to tears with PVP which is the only thing I am really interested in any game for. So much so that I have actually been playing a few other games that I have not played in a very long time. What I have found is that those games realizing how badly they were failing have been doing something that is almost mind blowing in the MMO world.

Conan.8046:

Bambula.3649:

Conan.8046:

Class concept is a long range class. Ranged should always be the best option for a ranger, otherwise your no different to a warrior.

this is not true..ranger is not for range -.-
the topic we got about 6 times?

and no the longbow should not do more dps than melee weapons

Now to explain concept – Which means general idea behind Rangers, It is not melee the general idea is you use a longbow and traps. Its in stone written by GW2 people if anyone argues with that, they are wrong.

Ranger
Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Nearly worthless archers, rangers are capable of bringing down chickens and other harmless critters with no hit points with their Longbow bows. With traps in their Precision line, Nature spirits and a stable of nearly worthless pets because of their broken AI Rangers tend to come in last in about any situation.

^^ Fixed that description for Anet

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

Here is what I don’t understand:

GW2 is probably the most Condition damage happy game I have ever played, but instead of streamlining conditions so they are easier to balance they add more…

Anet if anything you should be doing things like reducing the number of stacks of a condition a player can apply in PVP. Such as lowering conditions from 25 stacks to say 15.
Cutting down the number of conditions so they are manageable from a balance perspective. By adding more Conditions and giving classes more access to them all you have done is turn PVP into a who can spam the most conditions at someone.

I am sorry that is not PVP its Player VS bad design decisions. Players that run the OP Condi spam builds are rewarded while people who try anything else throw up their arms and walk away from PVP.

Really in Tournaments there is no reason to run anything but condi spam builds. This is for a number of reasons. First off its the most effective way to fight. Second It requires very little skill, and last its the current trend in GW2. I have watched some of the best bunkers I have ever seen melt in seconds because 2 Condi spammers show up and just rip them apart, and there is nothing that can really be done about it.

I really hope at some point reason sinks in and Anet realizes that they have gone way overboard with Conditions in this game, but till then I see very little actual fun in this game.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve taken Skyhammer out of the tournament rotation while we evaluate all of the feedback we’ve received over the last few days. The map may return to the rotation after we’ve made one (or more) adjustments to it.

I will say this.

Removing a map because a group of players are all running the single most powerful build their class has is sad. If anything adding maps where people cannot just run OP build 1 or 2 is a very good thing for PVP. It promotes players actually having to diversify a bit.

As soon as I target a player in any tournament I am in I can tell by the class Icon almost exactly what they are going to be bringing to the fight, and that is not how it should be. If I see a Guardian coming at me I know its going to be one of 2 basic builds and the weapons they have on usually give that away before they even attack. Same with almost any other class, and that is boring.

There are so many issues with Class balance I couldn’t even begin to get into it all, but giving in to a group of OP meta only players that demand people in their groups run cookiecutter class builds because they are “the best” is a very bad idea.

I know Why Necro’s are mad about Skyhammer. Their OP FOTM build can get aced by a smart player with a knock back so they can’t just run in and LOLspam conditions and win.

Players have to use utility skills with stability in them or they can get knocked off an edge to their doom, and that breaks up their Pavlovian attacks, but the worst part of it is Rangers that are not playing BM can actually win on this map. Not because of some new super secret build, but because of the difference in levels and more room to actually be able to use their weapons to a real advantage for a change.

If there is this much QQ about a single map because people might actually have to improvise and think their way through a fight. What will happen if Anet actually brings in real class balance where there is no FOTM ROFLstomp class/build?

I can honestly say that I had more fun running Skyhammer tournaments the other night than I have had in months on the other maps. My whole team was so busy laughing and having fun that we totally forgot about the score many times and were just playing to have fun. Heaven forbid people have fun playing instead of nerd raging over someone that has the wrong master trait in their tournament team.

The map is a blast, and you can easily avoid getting knocked off and killed simply by being smart enough to pay attention to where you are. I mean why should a player have to pay attention to their positioning while they spam conditions. They might actually have to interrupt their spam for .25 seconds while they dodge.

So I guess the QQ players get their way.

If you really want to get down to it. there is no reason at all to even have a map rotation in tournaments. Its all exactly the same thing. 3 points with a side objective. No real difference at all. At least with the new map there was some change.

I think the real reason for all the QQ was simple. Its the only PVP map where people actually ran from a ranger because they had a longbow.

It would also be nice to have the option to not use a pet at all. Giving the Ranger an over all boost in damage.

Many of OP’s suggestions on pets are great, but you still have the biggest issue with pets and that is the really, really bad AI. It would be nice if Rangers actually had the option of using the pet or not using it.

Perhaps switching out the pet gave the ranger a new F1 ability.

Best way to resolve the issues with pets…

Allow rangers to put them away and get a damage bonus equal to what the pet is supposed to provide.

Problem solved.

Prysin.8542:

IBountyHunterI.4601:

Prysin.8542:

RaO doesnt give might to you,, only your pet, it gives fury, stability and swiftness to you.

Rampage as One: Rampage with your pet, gaining stability fury and swiftness. You and your pet also grant MIGHT TO EACHOTHER when you attack.

Your pet attacks you get might you attack your pet gets might.

Unless it has been changed should be working as intended?
Learn how your skills work :P

the pet get might, but ive never gotten it from the pet as far as ive noticed

Look at your buffs. Typically I am sitting at between 9-12 stacks of might the whole time.

Prysin.8542:

RaO doesnt give might to you,, only your pet, it gives fury, stability and swiftness to you.

Ummm Wrong. RaO gives both you and your pet might. Or should I say when using RaO you give your pet might and your pet gives you might. Reading the full description would really help.

Rampage as One: Pet. Rampage with your pet, gaining stability, fury, and swiftness. You and your pet also grant might to each other when you attack.

Tumult.2578:

Xsorus.2507:

If Anet was a Car company, they’d make their sports cars with square wheels so not to overshadow their family sedans…

Actually, I suspect they would simple shrink the gas tank to nerf its range.

Quoted for truth….

I just think this is funny. comparing a Warrior Vs Ranger in over all DPS is like Professional gymnast Vs Special Olympics.

Warriors are better condi damage, better burst damage, better over all sustained damage. The only thing Rangers really are better at than a warrior is bunkering.

I really like that people are trying to bring to light just how much the Ranger class needs help, but seeing people argue about things being a L2P are simply sabotaging the class as a whole. Rangers need help. Our traits are jacked up and lackluster when you compare them side by side with other classes. Anet forces way to many pet related traits down our throat to be even semi viable. I would rather see the pet go away and have a class that can compete evenly with other classes than have that broken AI death magnet depict how I have to play.

I love my Ranger, and I play it all the time, but In all honestly I think I play it and try and nickle and dime every ounce of damage I can out of it in total defiance of Anet’s inability to balance the class. I also refuse to waste 30 points into BM and conform to this BS about being so pet dependent, and If I could just put my pet up and not use it at all I would.

Here is my issue with the reason stated for nerfing Short bow range. If they want to make longbow more attractive to players and used more FIX THE KITTEN WEAPON.

Rangers were not using it that much because it was simply a very infective weapon all the way around. Longbow was easy to dodge, Slow and did far less damage over time. A few of those things have kind of been addressed, but still the base issue is there. Every other ranged weapon in the game is simply better.

If you want people to use a long bow make it worth using. Don’t nerf a weapon to force people to use it. Anet logic seems to be cut off your nose to spite your face.

Or you could just use Axe/Axe and do the same or potentially more damage from Auto attack+bleeds+path of scars with the 10% crit damage while wielding an axe.

I can do at least as much damage if not more using Axe/Axe + LB with out burning 3 sigs and timing pet summon+combo fields.

I use RaO + Axe 2, 3, 4 weapon swap to LB 3, 4, 2 for the same burst, but with far more CC. Chill + drag from PoS then knock back and rapid fire. This can do close to 18-22K in about 6 seconds with QZ. Path of scars alone can hit for around 6K between the outgoing and incoming hits.

Although I will admit there is something really fun about slamming someone up side the head with a GS.

It just seems to me that Anet has decided at this point that rangers should be using Axes, swords and Longbow. So why fight it? Just go with it and let it happen its easier that way.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Attacking faster but far weaker is not enough. Just FYI.

If the devs thought ranger DPS was bad, they would have buffed it last patch, not nerfed it. You didn’t notice the giant nerfs to pet DPS? Or do they only serve to convince you that Anet is in the business of nerfing a class that is underpowered? Because I’m pretty sure they don’t do that. Because that’d be, you know, stupid.

They nerfed it due to PvP only, where a ranger could bunker down and still do ‘too much damage’ for a bunker build as the damage was coming from the pet instead of the ranger and the other PvP players never thought to kill the pet. That was a PvP nerf that affected all rangers. At the time ranger was about average in PvP due to that one build that was useless outside of PvP as point control is not necessary in PvE and plays a much lesser role in WvW.

So yes, they nerfed a class that is underpowered everywhere else as they were balancing it strictly for another game mode in which it was not severely underpowered.

As for the rest of your response? I’ll do some actual testing in the Mists later instead of useless numbers theorycrafting. Though I can pretty much guarantee it will show rangers well below in damage output.

And birds as your example? They can’t hit opponents in WvW/PvP and die in half a hit in PvE. Bad pet choice.

You are completely correct. They nerfed pet damage because of 1 build used mostly in Spvp. BM simply had far to much going for it, but instead of addressing and balancing out the traits that made it unbalanced they hit the entire class with a change that was simply not needed. This is whats known as a knee-jerk reaction. It also shows a serious lack of over all thought process on the part of the Dev’s.

Rangers over all are under powered. Yes LB got a tiny bit of love in the form of 1 additional attack every 5 seconds when using auto attack, but again this still puts the weapon below Warrior LB and Rifle.

The reason many people argue that rangers are fine is because of Spvp. A zerker Ranger can rain down damage on several targets at once and by doing this get a lot of points. So this must mean they are balanced out, but that is far from the case.

Short Bow. Solid over all damage, but the range reduction really hurt. Its also the only weapon with condition damage on Auto attack that requires you be behind or to the side of your target to add the condition damage.

Longbow. The increased rate of fire on the auto attack and the reduction of after cast (global cool down) helped a bit, but over all it is still the weakest ranged weapon in the game. It has no integrated condition damage. Damage on auto attack is reduced as the target gets closer. Over all when compared to Warrior Longbow and Rifle it comes in a solid 3rd place.

Sword auto attack can get you “Stuck”. The common response on how to fix this is turn off sword auto attack, but why should you have to? I don’t have to do this on my Thief, Guardian or Warrior. So why should I have to do this on my Ranger?

Great Sword is simply weak all around. It does have some nifty utility, but does less damage than Axe, Sword, SB or LB. This isn’t just over time. This is per hit. I have always been a fan of 2 handed weapons being a bit slower, but each hit being harder.

Torch is really fun till you play a Guardian with a torch and realize that your #4 and #5 attack are weaker than their #4 by its self.

Dagger is actually pretty OK, but the cool down on the abilities is a bit high.

Axe off hand is really good for the #4 attack and situational use of the #5, but most of the time I don’t really find being rooted to do the same damage as Auto attack really all that helpful. Yes there is the missile reflect, but mostly I use that to punk Spin to win Thieves.

Pets. Pet AI simply sucks. You can kite a ranger pet all day long and almost never actually get hit by it. But its not just PVP where this happens. In PVE if the target moves the pet just misses and takes time to seem to realize that the target has moved and start to chase it. But this is the case for all NPC’s in the game. They are slow to respond. Slow to react and the way they just stop in place to attack most of the time makes PVE kind of a joke. You can effectively kite mobs with melee weapons if you just move back or to the side at the right time.

So the long and short of it is that it seems Its OK for rangers to be penalized because we have pets, but the Pet AI gets them killed (even if you try and micromanage them) all the time and more than half the time they simply miss their attacks.

It would be really nice to see Anet man up and say they made mistakes with the class and are working on fixing them, but that doesn’t seem to be their style.

This was happening everywhere to me. Most noted was WvW and Spvp Including the mists. They happened at the same time for about the same duration for me and everyone around me. When you used abilities it showed them like they were queued, but when everything seemed to “catch up” they had all fired.

It was so bad for many members of my guild that we scratched out normal tournaments.

After checking everything I could on my side and with everyone in my guild talking about the same thing it really looks like a server side issue.

I can see some of the idea’s here working and some failing badly.

We have to expect that if they make changes to the long bow they will not be huge changes and will probably follow the same basic mechanics that are in game. That being said…

Change Eagle eye to include short bow, and increase damage bonus from 5% to 10%.

Swap Eagle eye and Remorseless . Make Remorseless actually worth taking as a trait.

Lb1 Remove range modifier to damage. Level damage at current max range damage. Integrate Vulnerability into the attack. Each hit adds 1 stack of vulnerability that lasts for 10 seconds. This will effectively remove the need for LB3 as it is with the exact same effect.

LB2 Rapid fire Reduce channel time by 20% increase damage by 20%

LB3 Pin down. Fires an arrow that pins the target for 3 seconds and interrupts casting .25 second stun.

LB4 knocks targets in front of ranger back (cone attack) and applies 2 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds.

LB5 Same effect, but reduce channel time by 50%.

Best build for a Ranger in the front lines is…

Roll a Guardian

I do have a few things I would like to see them answer..

1) Why doesn’t Rangers longbow have any integrated condition damage like every other classes ranged weapons? Warrior Longbow has both bleeds and burning. Warrior Rifle has nearly the same attacks as Ranger longbow, but also has bleeds. Engi, Thief all have some kind of condition damage built into all of their ranged weapons. Rangers how ever have no integrated Condition damage built into the longbow.

2) Why do many of our Utility skills have a much much longer recharge timer than comparable skills from other classes. Most noted are Rampage as One. It has almost exactly the same effect (although weaker) as the Warrior Signet of Rage.

Rampage as One gives: 20 Seconds of Fury, Stability and swiftness on a 120 second timer. You cannot trait to reduce this timer.
Signet of Rage gives: 30 seconds of Fury, might (5 stacks) and swiftness on a 60 second timer that can be lowered down to 48 seconds via traits.

That’s less than half the recharge rate with traits.

3) Will they be willing to add Short bow range back via trait and remove the facing requirement for short bow bleeds? Ranger is the only class with a ranged weapon that requires they be flanking or behind a target to land its bleed effect. The bleeds also have one of the shortest durations. With most other bleeds in the 6+ second range.

4) Will they add better traits for bleeds for the Ranger? Again looking at warrior they can increase all their bleeds by 50% duration. They also receive traits that increase their damage by 10% vs a target that is bleeding and or burning. Allowing them to do 20% combined damage to a target at range. Rangers receive only a 5% damage bonus. Period.

There are many other questions I have, but ill leave it at that for the time being.

To the OP Please stop arguing for mediocrity as a standard for a class.

Ranger Pets are kitten. Lets just be honest here. Its not that they should be. On paper their damage should be a really good over all balancing point to anything the Ranger class lacks in that department, but because of the basic issues with the pet its self that “balance” simply does not exist.

What are the issues with the pets? Well we could write a short book on the subject, but lets just say Pet tracking and Pet AI were done better in EQ1 than they are in Guild Wars 2.

Part of the issue is with pet combat animations. It is slow, easy to avoid and in effect roots the pet during combat for short periods at a time. What I mean by this is a pet will get locked into a given attack animation and once it starts cannot change its facing. This causes the pet to miss many of its attacks.

Another part of the issue is that the pet is far to easy to kill except in the case of one build. So 1 potential build gets a strong pet and the rest get …… kitten. I always though having the option to have more than 1 build was the point of Guild Wars in general. If i wanted to play the same build as everyone else I would still be playing one of several other games where X class is exactly the same as everyone else playing X class.

Many of these issues could be resolved by speeding up the attack animation and letting the pet travel during the attacks. Another part of the issue could be resolved by giving the pets universal stats that let them survive with out the rangers stats or build effecting that at all.

So a Power build Ranger’s pets would hit just as hard and live just as long as a “bunker” ranger. The only difference would be the Ranger. If the pet is intended to be part of a Rangers damage then only 1 build really gets that benefit. The rest are just kinda screwed.

On weapons. Please for the love of Kitten stop trying to argue over rangers being a ranged or a melee class because they don’t perform as well as any other class at either.

Lets compare them side by side with what could be stated to be the most balanced over all class in the game right now. The Warrior.

Ranged: Lulz… that’s all I have to say there.

Longbow. Warriors win here hands down. Their attacks and options here are better than anything the Ranger has. Warrior longbow has far better sustained damage. It has better attacks and combines not only solid direct damage, but integrated condition damage. Warrior Auto attack has higher consistent damage than Rangers Auto attack. Because of the 2 shots they will average out over 1400 damage a shot with a power spec. Rangers can hit from 700 to 2200. That is a huge range. Testing this with a power based warrior I have had 2800 damage crit’s with auto attack. You can stack more damage on there as well because warriors get traits that increase their damage against a target that is suffering from burning and or bleeding targets.

Then warriors second ranged option. Rifle. Again stronger than Rangers longbow or short bow. Almost a carbon copy of Ranger longbow, but with bleeds added to the attacks. Again integrating both condition damage and power, but with far better synergy than Ranger. Further Unlike ranger short bow Warriors do not have to be flanking or behind a target to apply their bleeds that last more than twice as long.

Long sword. Again Warriors integrate condition damage with damage far better than rangers. Rangers do have more avoidance on this department.

The Ranger Auto attack chain can cause a player to be stuck so to speak. It can be very hard to actually stop attacking and can get you killed because you keep trying to jump back to your target. It can actually interrupt a player trying to use a different ability. Such as spiking a downed player or even using a healing skill.

Axe: This is actually probably one of the few shining points behind the Ranger class. The Axe is probably the most group friendly weapon Rangers have. With the changes to Path of Scars it had some real punch added. Although Whirling defense really needs to have the “root” effect removed from the skill.

Off hand skills are fairly par for the course in all honestly. Except in the case of Torch. In this case I look at the Guardian off hand as they are the closest match. Guardian 4 skill is simply better than ranger 4 and 5 combined. Why? Because a guardian can set 3 targets on fire With out relying on a small ground effect for more damage than Ranger 5 skill AND throw the flame at a target hitting for close to the same damage as the Ranger 4 skill… All on a 12-20 second timer. The Guardian #4 attack hits up to 3 targets for close to 4600+ fire damage over 3 seconds and can be thrown do do another 1500+ over 3 seconds. Compare that with Ranger 4 and 5 combined…

There are actually a few simple things they could do to fix the bow issue.

Change Eagle Eye to:
Increases range of Short bow, Long Bow and Harpoon gun
Increases Short Bow, Long Bow and Harpoon gun damage by 5%

Swap it with Remorseless Moving it from X to XII

This change would put it on par with other classes as nearly every class has the ability to increase the damage of all of their weapons by 5-10% as it is.

Change the effect of the trait Remorseless from “regain opening shot when you kill a foe” to “Short bow no longer requires you to be flanking or behind a target to apply bleeds.”

No other classes bleed attacks with a ranged weapon require that you be behind or to the side of a target. At least with this trait rangers would be on even ground with warriors and thieves ranged attacks that apply bleeds from every direction.

Allow rangers to stow their pets and gain a buff for doing so. There are so many issues with the pet AI that we could write a small book about them. If rangers were given the option of a buff to stats and no pet or a pet I think Anet would be amazed at how many rangers would be running around with out a pet… They would exchange the “utility” provided by the pet for raw power and precision. Most Sigs add 180 to a given stat. Perhaps by putting away their pet rangers could receive 180 power and precision.

I thought [GASM] died, got eaten up by the DB bandwagon… (Just like Protocol [PRO])

Naw we are still up and running. We could have died if we had moved to Mag like 4 of your guilds were begging us to, but after a long talk in guild our choices were downgrade to Mag or move to a server with more options for our PVP and PVE members.

What happened with PRO is their business and has nothing to do with GASM.

BTW hows your boarder land looking? What cant zerg your way out of your Citadel?

<3 nothin but love <3

What I really find funny about all of this… Mag is a good server with some really good PVP guilds, players and commanders, and I have fought them several times on 2 different servers now.

SBI I don’t know much about them, but I have seen some really strong groups of them pulling off some smart squad tactics.

The thing that is very sad to see is people from Mag and SBI posting things about hackers to justify their losses. I would also like to say that It isn’t the people from the good guilds that I give full props to above. I guess there is always going to be someone that is just so uber the only way they could lose is because of a hack. I mean it wouldn’t have anything to do with them running a glass cannon build they got off Youtube and charging into AC fire…. So how does that go again… 25/30/0/0/15 then 22222 WTF im dead???? The guy on Youtube didn’t die must be a hack…

DB has been fighting servers with a full crew day and night with the same numbers that Mag and SBI can field for months. Through all of that there was very little accusations of hacking. Now bring in a new match up and suddenly all these accusations start popping up.

My question is simply this: Is it that there is actual hacking going on? Or are there just some people from Mag and SBI that can’t handle the fact that you are going to lose this week and, since you cant win in the game you have to come here and QQ to justify your loss? Yes this match-up is a very bad one.. Neither Mag or SBI has a night crew, and no matter how good your groups are every day you will walk into a map that is solid green, and honestly that is simply not fair to either of your servers.

If you see someone hacking by all means report them regardless of the server they are from, but don’t fill the match forum with QQ about it when every thing that all 3 servers have fought for and won or loss had almost nothing to do with anything but pure grinding of forces sometimes for hours at a time. Don’t take away the dignity of the attackers or defenders by crying hacker.

On a side note I would like to state that Anet screwed the kitten with this match-up. As well as the changes made to siege. Congrats Anet you have managed to change WvW from Squad tactics to a contest of who can turtle with 12 AC’s behind a choke point the longest.

I would just like to see them actually address class balance. As it stands there is none. Over all I rate the PVP in this game as a solid C. Egame? LULz

I run duel Bow and run a 30/30/5/5/0 build. I do very well in PVP and PVE with this build. Lots of dodging nice touch of regen and depending on what you use in the utilities its a solid build.

So most likely a glass cannon Warrior which is the worst PVP build for a Warrior…
A Guardian that’s trying to be a damage class… Worst build for a Guardian..
An AFK Elementalist…

Sorry if a thief won all 3 of those fights I would wager that the 3 people that got beat showed up on a short bus.

Bunker guardian = Dead Thief
Shout Heal Warrior = Dead Thief
DD Ele = Dead Thief

Or the thief uses stealth and runs away. Hate to break it to you, but C&D thief is a gimmick build and if you can count to 4 you can beat them. Why 4? because that’s how long stealth on C&D lasts before they have to use it again. If they use it to soon it doesn’t work. If they use it to late they appear. C&D owns nubs and that’s the long and short of it.

I have hit for 7-8K damage with them…

I love the OP’s suggestion as well as the suggestion on repairing etc. As far as making it part of the monthly Sure if it is made into a WvW monthly. I really do not wish to hear the pve kittens cry.

It always seems that a minority of the WvW population pays for the majority of the benefits enjoyed by the PVE population when they come to craft etc. Adding a series of WvW exclusive dailies and monthlies would be a great idea. Then WvW players can enjoy the same benefits that PVE players already get handed to them on a silver spoon.

On a side note… Bags…. Why cant you just have it auto loot into your inventory instead of leaving a bag…. In a fight you really don’t have time to say “Please Wait a moment good Sir and refrain from slaying me as I must first collect the loot bags I have attained through smiting your brethren. Ahh there we go I have gathered them all now smite away sir!”

twodollar.5193:

This is the BP way we cant win so we exploit siege up in spawn to treb the keep We where able to kill the treb and ran off but i stayed and died for the Screenshot think you guys should just be perma banned for doing that but hey not like your gonna win anyway right

As the the screen shot… Yea…. If you are daft enough to charge their spawn and get cut down by siege… well lets just say BP isn’t the one with issues…

What impresses me most about Magu is that their commanders seem to be masters at herding cats. Because when their commanders are not there…. Lets just say Lemmings have more common sense…

Arcadio.6875:

Go Maguuma!

It’s unfortunate we will not be getting a Maguuma vs. Kaineng fight next week as both are moving up one tier. Mag’s performance is more impressive and it would be great to see Mag end another server’s hopes and dreams.

I hate to break it to you, but knowing Kain before they got a solid night crew and fighting Mag I can honestly say they would be right there in points with Mag. Their AP crew would clean the floor with the Magu AP crew. That is if WM stays on Kain. Mag would win during the day and Kain would win at night. Thing is because of the difference between when they log off and the Mag crew starts rolling that would give them control of most of the map for about 14-16 hours a day.

P.S. To all the DR and BP guilds that jumped ship to Mag look I forward to seeing you drop tiers again, because all the guilds with any skill stuck it out and you will just jump ship again when you find the next free ride. do this a few more times and you will just be seen as the no talent leeches you are =D. As one of my friends in PRO stated… “Even Mag commanders think the DR and BP guilds that jumped ship are a joke.”

I see it as spring cleaning.. Cleared out the trash now we just need to build on what we have. Really you did DR a service were were getting tired of carrying you anyway.

nothin but love!

Atticus.7194:

Personally I think they should nerf thieves to kitten until culling is fixed but not for the reason you think. From experience thieves tend to be rather… vocal, so if the collective whole of thieves suddenly feel the awful pain of their class suffering they’ll raise one hell of a cry and maybe MAYBE convince the development team to get around to addressing culling with some semblance of urgency (come on, it does seem like this has been going on a LONG time and it is a game breaking (in WvW at least) issue)

Laiboch.4380:

Better sustained damage and burst on par with warriors and most other burst damage classes: Issue resolved

Why does everyone use warriors as the baseline for massive DPS, they’re not the highest DPS class in either burst or sustained, I don’t get it.

I really could argue the point that warriors are the highest burst damage class in the game, and close to the highest sustained damage as well. That is unless you can show me any other class that can hit multiple targets for close to 28K damage in under 4 seconds. In their “Glass Cannon” build a warrior can do upwards of 18K with a SINGLE ATTACK both in melee and at the same range as a rangers long bow to boot, and still has better damage mitigation, survival and 10K more HP than a glass cannon Thief. If Warriors are “Balanced” where they are at then thieves are clearly not even close to balanced.

People do not seem capable of understanding how the class works. What a Thief has to sacrifice to do the same thing many other classes can do with out having to sacrifice anything at all, but still not do it nearly as well.

Thieves are quickly becoming relegated to obscurity and are even flat out refused groups in some Dungeons because they die to easy and cannot compete with the damage of many other classes. Put them side by side with most other classes and you see:

A class with with 6 to 10K less hit points than any other classes “Glass Cannon”. Even when they are not running a glass cannon build……

A class that does less damage regardless of build.

A class that has less survivability, No invulnerability skill, One condition removal skill that takes 3 seconds to kick in only if the trait is taken. Which usually means you are dead any way.

Has to sacrifice almost all of its below par melee damage to deal below par condition damage.

And has had so many of its abilities nerfed that players are forced to play gimmick builds like C&D or glass cannon spam builds in order to have any value or success in WvW or Spvp.

Thieves have many abilities that cost 4-5 initiative that do LESS DAMAGE than their auto attack… Pistol whip is an excellent example of this. Death blossom deals less damage and 1/4 the bleed duration/damage than a warriors auto attack with a long sword. Yes a warrior does more melee and bleed damage with their auto attack than a thief using 5 initiative skill.

No other class in the game is required to sacrifice as much to accomplish less.

What we have learned so far in this thread.

Thieves can hit 1 button to go stealth for ever and kill 5000000000 people with the use of 1 other button while doing back hand springs and solving world hunger and poverty all at the same time…

OR

That Anet needs to resolve the culling and rendering issues involving stealth and Invisibility and learn the concept of class balance.

Again I am all for an alternative resolution to all of this.
Give thieves an out of combat stealth that does not drop till they take damage or enter combat. Then leave them with only Hide in shadows, Blinding powder and Refuge. A really good mechanic for this was from another game. If you take damage in stealth you had 5 seconds till it dropped. You could at that point chose to bug out or jump in the fight, but you couldn’t just sit there and do nothing. Of course that game also gave them an in combat stealth that gave them 3 seconds of invulnerability, and Thief like class in that game was definitely far from the most powerful class in the game.

Then to compensate give them about 2K more base hit points and increase their damage to match Warriors damage +15%…

No more perma stealth in combat: issue resolved.

Better sustained damage and burst on par with warriors and most other burst damage classes: Issue resolved

Less QQ on the forums? that issue will never be resolved.

Columba.9730:

Dual.8953:

Hospis.4607:

IMHO one change will balance thieves and reduce all the hate on them. Just make so that when a stealthed thief takes damage its puts them out of stealth, either by direct damage or aoe. They can keep all the damage and burst they have. WoW rogues have permanent stealth by default but are revealed when they are hit and WAR had the same mechanic. What were Anet devs thinking?

This has been suggested far too often. It essentially gimp pretty much every thief build that isn’t BS glass cannon. And effectively banish them from high level pve zones with lots of aoe, large scale fights in wvw and dungeons.
Thieves don’t survive off of armour, or protective boons, the survive by not getting hit, and they have to do it actively. No throwing up aegis or defensive stances, it’s either they use an evade skill, dodge roll or throw up a blind if they have one, otherwise even tanky thieves are taking the full hit.

Other games seem to do just fine with stealth breaking on damage or on them doing damage. I don’t understand why Anet feels the need to make stealth far more powerful in this game vs other games who have years of pvp experience, particularly since this game already gives extra stealth from culling. It just isn’t logical. Since this is a thread about thieves and their game play, I hope this isn’t deleted too.

What part of Its a rendering and culling issue is so hard to grasp? What part of its a game programing issue is so hard to grasp? You are asking them to nerf a skill because of a game bug. Why not ask them to FIX THE BUG. I know that’s really asking a lot from the QQ bandwagon, but that one thing would resolve 90% of your QQ in one hit.

The other 10% are just going to QQ because they have nothing better to do and are not smart enough to use dodge.

If they keep nerfing the Thief its going to become almost unplayable. Once that happens they will have to fix it and that will probably come in the form of increased damage then the same people that are QQing about stealth will be here QQing about thief damage.

You do realize that Mesmer invis does exactly the same thing and has the exact same culling and rendering bugs don’t you? The difference being a Thief can stealth them self or up to 5 targets using refuge. A Mesmer can do much more than that. When 20+ people come out of Mass Invisibility the issues caused there are 10 times worse than any Thief can create.

So how about we get more QQ about the rendering bug and culling.

Columba.9730:

that bow damage is better than ranger bow damage. sorry, perma stealth, best dps and highest run speeds makes this class stupidly overpowered right now.

No It really isn’t, but yes rangers do need their bow skills buffed up.

Few things you got wrong. Prema stealth does not exist in this game. A good C&D thief can stay in stealth a very long time, but each C&D lasts 4 seconds if they put the points into getting that extra 1 second of stealth. That means C&D gives them 4 seconds of stealth. Yes they can hit it over and over again, but to keep it up that means they can get in 1 maybe 2 hits every 4 seconds.

Thieves are not the highest DPS in the game. They have a good burst, but even their burst is not the highest in the game.

Ranger Short bow auto attack has a built in bleed.
Try using a 30/25/15/0/0 build. Weapons are short bow and axe and horn.
Traits are up to you, but make sure you pick shared anguish and traps are larger and use ground targeting. you can also go 30/30/10/0/0 and also pick condition duration from traps increased by 50%. I run the first with full power precision and the traps alone nearly level a thief. Worried about bask poison? no problem Shared anguish means your pet takes it for you.
Get rid of your stupid black widow and run jungle spider. Yes the widow looks cool, but jungle spider does the EXACT SAME ATTACKS and has double the hp.

You could also stop watching youtube for the next ranger uber build and figure out what the class can and cannot do on your own because I hate to break it to you any one that puts up a video that includes the black widow as a pet is an idiot.

Drop all traps on you. Thief comes in gets hit by all 3 traps dodge, Drop all three traps on you again, light up with short bow. Thief goes stealth pops up about 3 seconds later in a downed state. If there are 2 of them also pop Entangle. It does work I dropped 3 thieves by my self in a 3v1 fight in Spvp last night 1 running heart seeker spam and 2 P/D. Also remember your heal spring removes conditions. I drop it and fight in the area effect of the spring.

Long blow is also great in this situation if you do not like axes which hit as hard at thief short bow and have about the same range, but also get a chill, bleed, and that bird attack which will keep hitting a thief in stealth as long as you cast it before they pop stealth. Thief pops refuge? No problem toss your traps on that refuge bubble and use long bow to AOE them down. Inability to use the advantaged of your class do not mean that another class is OP.

Rangers do need some lovin, but if you are getting killed by a burst thief its because you are not running your traps which is one of the most powerful things a Ranger has going for it.

Now back to the real issue here that being the Thief class.

jan.9745:

@Binary rain, ok how many times they can use that immune damage in 1 combat? espicially to ranger? Maybe 1,2 or if lucky 3? Ok let just say thief only have stealth how many times they can use it in 1 combat? Maybe 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9…………..and so on?

C&D build is based around 2 basic things.

1 Being able to wait till the last possible moment to use the skill again. Dragging out the full duration of the ability

2 your target not using anything that allows them to dodge, block, immune or AOE.

C&D gives a thief up to 4 seconds of stealth. This relies on the Thief being able to get in and out of melee range with their target. A Good C&D Thief can maintain stealth for quite some time, but will run out of Init because the amount they use is greater than the amount they regen even when taking the right traits.

Further because of a built in mechanic if they use it again to early they get an immune notice and do not actually go back into stealth. So they have to time it at almost exactly the 4 second mark to stay in stealth.

If you are getting jacked by a C&D thief its because you are not using one of the many many utilities that allow you to either go immune, dodge, knock down or block incoming attacks.

A Full C&D thief might hit you for a top end of 2.5K damage a hit.. Thats 2.5k damage once every 4 seconds. If they put 30 points into precision they can get a bit more, but not much.

Even when I run a glass cannon build on my thief I can easily stop a C&D thief just by making them pick between trying to chase me down and running out of Init or trying to find another target that is going to panic and not use basic skills to avoid their one attack. If I can do that running a toon with only 12K hp than anyone can.

Traps, AOE, dodge, Invuln and many other abilities completly negate a C&D thief. Every class in the game has built in utilities that can stop a C&D thief with out a hassle.