Guild Wars 2

GamerToukotsu.4219:

I believe that people are just lazy in today’s world, that is all it is plain and simple—LAZINESS.

This argument is so false.

Allow me to pose a hypothetical: You’re given the task of stapling 100 sheets of paper together in groups of 2. That’s 50 staples. Is it hard? Not really. Is it time consuming? Not really. Now, imagine you were asked to staple 1000000 sheets of paper together in groups of 2. Is it hard? No, it’s just stapling paper. Is it time consuming? Yes. That’s a lot of paper. Do you feel accomplished after all that? No, probably not. It’s just way more paper stuck together than you had before. Time taken != Reward

It has nothing to do with laziness. It has everything to do with the fact that they’re adding zeros in order to make it take more time, which takes away from the sense of reward that you’re supposed to get in a game. At that point, it’s no longer a game. It’s a chore. A boring, drawn out chore for a reward that’s a bunch of 0’s and 1’s on a server somewhere. It’s a game. It’s not supposed to be a chore, it’s supposed to be entertainment.

I’m sure the people you call “lazy” work hard in their jobs, or in school, or what have you, and will put effort into something that will reward them for it.

Valik Shin.9027:

deracs.1762:

Straegen.2938:

Its called WORLD completion which implies the entire world of GW2. Also this is a legendary feat which implies it should be difficult and challenging.

If this was the case it should include all dungeons and all sPvP maps. Of course it doesnt. if you are stuck in an undermanned WvW server you will likely wait months now for a chance at map completion, and personally I think that is wrong

Well I think it wrong that pve players get all the good skins and loot drops and leech off from the world bonuses we give you by doing well in wvw. So you can just deal

Those world bonuses are the most insignificant thing ever. I never even notice them.

Dranmarth.1982:

LunaNosCustodit.1458:

Did anyone else notice the silly amount of siege inside the TC Lowlands Keep on EB? Most of it wasn’t even useful. It was just rams piled up in one spot and ballistas facing walls. What’s up with that?

We’ve got someone who goes around placing siege on all the npcs, usually rams, they’ve been doing it for weeks now, we’ve got people that are in contact with Anet people trying to get it to stop.

Oh, okay. That explains it, then. Is it someone who has buddies on one of the other servers who is trying to sabotaging us, or just some guy being a jerk because he thinks it’s funny?

Did anyone else notice the silly amount of siege inside the TC Lowlands Keep on EB? Most of it wasn’t even useful. It was just rams piled up in one spot and ballistas facing walls. What’s up with that?

As long as it’s something retroactive (which the way they’re wording it implies) I’m welcome to whatever they decide to do with it.

lothefallen.7081:

LunaNosCustodit.1458:

I think you might have entirely missed the point of what GW2 is trying to accomplish.

Which is?

Sell cash shop items? Time-gate you with grinds? Inject vertical progression? Toy with the economy to encourage RMT? Trivialize GW1 lore and fandom to market to a larger audience? Sell out GW1 fans with braindead combat mechanics and fights like CoF p1 end boss? Destroy any depth that players enjoyed in GW1?

If by all that you mean make the game more accessible to the casual majority and make putting time into the game yield aesthetic rewards as opposed to gating new/casual players by a huge stat disparity, then, yeah. You’ve got it spot on.

I actually have a similar build to what you described, OP. I use a Shortbow/Longbow, and have maxed out the Beast-mastery and Wilderness Survival trait trees. My pet pulls most of the aggro, so, all of my armour is +Condition Damage, because Shortbow has a heavy focus on stacking bleeding and poison, and I’m not going to be getting hit often if things go correctly. So, if you’re going to main using that shortbow, I recommend specing in +Condition damage to maximize it’s output.

I think you might have entirely missed the point of what GW2 is trying to accomplish.

I pretty much define it as an artificial barrier that exists for the sole purpose of elongating an activity. For example, adding a couple zeros to the amount of materials needed to craft some item isn’t any harder compared to how hard it would be with less zeros — It just takes longer. Much longer.

Actual difficulty and artificial timesinks are a completely different thing, in my opinion.

I disagree, rather strongly, actually. I think that removing the fixed roles that a Trinity would force onto everyone is one of this this game’s best selling points. You can play your class in a lot of different ways, instead of “Oh, your a healer? Heal. You’re a tank? Sit there and soak up damage.” It allows for more freedom in each class, and makes it so that there’s more than one way of playing it. Bland classes have ruined a lot of MMOs for me, and it’s always because your forced to play every class in one specific way or you die.

While I understand that it sort of makes all the classes “Good at everything; great at nothing” that’s not really a big problem for me. But, I can see why people who like being told exactly what they have to do could be disappointed.

I’m a pretty casual player of this game myself, so, I suppose I’ll toss in my two cents.

I’ve pretty much never played only one MMO at a time. Granted, I’ve only been playing MMOs for maybe two years or something now, so. I suppose that could be attributed to me trying to find one that is the least bad in my eyes. Now, I am a rather firm opponent to grinding, as well, as I feel it cheapens the overall enjoyment of the game by tacking a few zeros at the end of everything. I like challenge, not tedium. But I digress. As a casual player, I feel that GW2 is one of the more approachable MMOs I’ve played. I play games that I find fun, and GW2? It’s pretty fun. Now, that isn’t to say that it isn’t without flaws. The “encouraging” of the playerbase to participate in WvW is a little annoying to me, but, I suppose if the game is supposed to be about PvP, then whatever. I can brush that off.

Now, I can kind of see why the more “hardcore” players with more time invested in the game could feel a little bit cheated. I play maybe five hours in a typical week or something, and I have achieved quite a bit compared to someone who puts, say, 20 hours a week or higher. Now, as a casual player, this doesn’t bother me at all. I don’t think people who have more time to play should be in any better of a position than anyone else in a purely gameplay standpoint. Games that have super-powerful gear that you can only get by wasting millions of gold on enchanting (ala TERA) end up creating a rather annoying kind of playerbase. Elitist, entitled “l2playnoob” kind of people that ostracize you for asking a legitimate question. I compare it to Communism, in a sense. Everybody is on the same level regardless of inputted time. I’m fine with that. That isn’t to say that I think that people who put insurmountable amount of time into a game shouldn’t have more than I do, but, I’m biased. I don’t have time to put into this game, and I appreciate that I can still compete.

Really, I don’t think anyone is “ruining” this game besides some sort of perceived entitlement everyone has to having the game completely catered to their demands. The Developers obviously have some sort of a goal in mind, so, I say just let it play out. You’re not ruining the game for anyone but yourself if you constantly complain about everything. Just have fun. It’s a game. That’s the point of games, right?

So, if our characters are supposed to be wearing armour to, you know, protect them? Why should it be revealing?

Most MMOs I’ve played ( TERA was really bad about it ) had this strange receding armour the higher level you became, so high level females went into battle in metal bikinis. If heavy plate armour looks like a bunch of strings, you’ve officially ruined immersion. That’s the point of a ROLEPLAYING GAME, no? Immersion?

It’s not like people couldn’t handle the skin, it’s just not necessary and doesn’t make any sense.

While I agree that you shouldn’t be able to go back and change things on your story willy-nilly, I also think that the faction locked armour is kind of annoying.

Really, there isn’t a reason (besides an entirely RP based one) that you shouldn’t be able to get the other factions armour at some point in the game. Even if you could only get the skins, or something.

TWMagimay.9057:

Amm, no, not really. I played Tera since CBT3 on NA all the way to September(when the gear grind finally got to me and I moved to GW2). I had both mystic and priest at 60 in omnom gear. The basic lock-on skills are virtually the same for both classes(except mystic has a hot attached to it but that is a topper). The strongest heal in the game was the priest lvl 60 lock-on. And between those 2, ground targeted heals for priest were precisely hp/mp toppers and the occasional very situational moment for the short range burst heal. And Tera isn’t even remotely competition for GW2. Just like Civilizations w/e-number-they-got-to isn’t. The 2 games are so completely different….

Anyway…I miss being a pvp healer so darn much…if GW2 had trinity combat, it’d be my ultimate dream MMO. It’d at least be more challenging and less boring….

LunaNosCustodit.1458:

You don’t have to think about what’s going on beyond the confines of health bars and cooldowns.

Very very bad healer alert.

In all the MMOs I’ve played, that’s all I had to do. Especially TERA, where I literally blew through every instance by standing back, watching health percentages, and pressing hotkeys when I had to.

No, I wasn’t a particularly excellent healer. But I also never caused a wipe, so.

You are wrong, in this case.

Kakeru.2873:

LunaNosCustodit.1458:

Kakeru.2873:

And this is the problem with western gamers, they want instant gratification, the reason games are losing quality and becoming worse and worse and the reason hardly any western devs decide to make an mmo because of the demanding community that what everything and they want it now now now, it’s already happening with Gw2.

I understand that there was a grind, thought personally i didn’t feel any grind because I came from korean mmos where the level caps where something like 120 and it took years to level to max. Thoguht what you forget is with aion, leveling wasnt’ the only thing to do, like in Gw2 , pigeon holeing the game saying oh well its grindy is a weak point because there was more to do than level. Pvp, the reason Rifts existed in lower level areas, Player housing, Arenas, Abyss content like sieges, Flight race challanges, crafting.

Like in every other game the main goal isn’t only to level, so stop using it as an obstacle because it isn’t.

This is an extremely unfair generalization; and a biased one at that. You stated yourself you “came from korean mmos [sic]” and you’re used to how grindy they are. The Korean market enjoys grinding, the Western market does not. Go play Korean games if you want a grind, go play western games if you don’t. I’m not sure why that’s so hard for people to understand.

Now, I personally find grinding to be a cheap gimmick to lengthen the overall time spent on a game, especially where Subscription Fees are a factor. The Developers can make a lot of money by adding a few more zeros onto things, so why not? To me, it ends up feeling like a chore. Games are supposed to be fun, right? That’s part of the connotation of the word. I personally (and I emphasize “personally,” there, because I’m not turning this into an attack) find games with a heavy grind not fun, therefore, I do not play them.

GW2 is a game with no subscription fees, and therefore no incentive for the Developers to add those extra zeros onto XP requirements; It cheapens the game and that’s not what they’re aiming for. Hitting level cap feels good, and being able to hit cap in a few months is great for that. It’s a goal that you don’t have to set aside some insurmountable amount of time to attain.

And now your generalizing and misunderstanding. You realiseright all game well more so all mmos have a grind and a grind is a repetition of content which believe it or not GW2 has so GW2 does have a grind but it’s not a leveling grind per say it’s a dungeon, instanced grind which is a grind.

Saying extended play cheapens the game is also a weak concept as it allows players to actually view or experience content where as in games like this where people get to 80 without having visited like 30% of the map. If anything it helps players experience more the game has to offer rather then rewarding them for running to a way point or a point of interest they actually do it themselves to experience what the world has to offer not what rewards they get for it.

Any your saying this game’s end game content doesn’t feel like a chore to some because it does, grinding instances, farming constantly to raise gold is a chore. People didn’t come to this game to play trade broker simulator did they.

So we both need to stop generalising.

You just made a counter-argument with generalizations and then dismissed everything you said with your last statement, by the way.

Assuming you didn’t render your argument moot, however, yes. All MMOs have a grind, GW2 included. However, during my entire expedition from 1 to 80, I never once realized that I was grinding. Not noticing the grind is something that screams good design. If you can get players to do the same thing, over and over, and not have them realize it? You’re doing something right. Sure, the end game requires farming, and blah blah. Whatever. That’s really only if you want top tier gear, which really doesn’t even matter anyway. I was doing fine on an 80 with level 60 gear I got from story quests.

Also, I’m perfectly fine with not being able to see the entire game in one run. Think of great games like Skyrim, or Fallout. Experiencing EVERYTHING the game has to offer is impossible in one run. So I missed 30% of the world? I’ll start another character, pick a different race, a different class, and go explore that missing 30%. I don’t see your point, here.

That last chunk I addressed up there, so.

Kakeru.2873:

maddoctor.2738:

Kakeru.2873:

maddoctor.2738:

Kakeru.2873:

Blast through all the content?

In Aion i played it for a year and never reached max level. In GW2 i played it for 3 months and reached max level. I didn’t blast through anything I even took a month and a half break from the game in Oct/Nov.

That’s not very good for Aion, isn’t it? Also, yes in Aion reaching max level meant something, Guild Wars 2 it means nothing. Aion didn’t have ANY content compared to Guild Wars 2… just a boring/endless grind, that’s why it lasted so long, not because it was full of content, that’s nonsense.

That’s why it lasted so long……. Points at 4.0 and looks as 3.0 with player housing, mounts, skills, new classes, new pvp, new flight mechanics and being the biggest mmo in Korea……………..

Yea really didn’t last long did it?

And it’s free to play everywhere else, so it didn’t “last” much anywhere else. Aion “lasted” up to max level just because it took an insane grind to level up, no thanks I wouldn’t want that in any way.

And this is the problem with western gamers, they want instant gratification, the reason games are losing quality and becoming worse and worse and the reason hardly any western devs decide to make an mmo because of the demanding community that what everything and they want it now now now, it’s already happening with Gw2.

I understand that there was a grind, thought personally i didn’t feel any grind because I came from korean mmos where the level caps where something like 120 and it took years to level to max. Thoguht what you forget is with aion, leveling wasnt’ the only thing to do, like in Gw2 , pigeon holeing the game saying oh well its grindy is a weak point because there was more to do than level. Pvp, the reason Rifts existed in lower level areas, Player housing, Arenas, Abyss content like sieges, Flight race challanges, crafting.

Like in every other game the main goal isn’t only to level, so stop using it as an obstacle because it isn’t.

This is an extremely unfair generalization; and a biased one at that. You stated yourself you “came from korean mmos [sic]” and you’re used to how grindy they are. The Korean market enjoys grinding, the Western market does not. Go play Korean games if you want a grind, go play western games if you don’t. I’m not sure why that’s so hard for people to understand.

Now, I personally find grinding to be a cheap gimmick to lengthen the overall time spent on a game, especially where Subscription Fees are a factor. The Developers can make a lot of money by adding a few more zeros onto things, so why not? To me, it ends up feeling like a chore. Games are supposed to be fun, right? That’s part of the connotation of the word. I personally (and I emphasize “personally,” there, because I’m not turning this into an attack) find games with a heavy grind not fun, therefore, I do not play them.

GW2 is a game with no subscription fees, and therefore no incentive for the Developers to add those extra zeros onto XP requirements; It cheapens the game and that’s not what they’re aiming for. Hitting level cap feels good, and being able to hit cap in a few months is great for that. It’s a goal that you don’t have to set aside some insurmountable amount of time to attain.

Kakeru.2873:

beren.6048:

Kakeru.2873:

beren.6048:

TWMagimay.9057:

beren.6048:

Let me disagree. In most games the healer targets the person in need of healing and press his skill. In Tera the priest needs to ground target the person in need of healing just like ground target skills in GW2. People are running and jumping around and ground target based healing is much more difficult because of it. So very often people see a circle and jump out of it. Ofc a good player sees the difference between a healing circle and a damage circle quickly. But the healer will still take the blame, as always. Not enough players want to play this essential class as an consequence. Good healers get still so much cursing that they reroll etc. etc.

Never actually played a healer in Tera, have you… I played both mystic and priest. The primary heal skill is a lock-on, ground targeted skills are hp/mp toppers. A party’s survival doesn’t rely on those. And a thing about good healers. We tend to get good parties that appreciate us instead of blaming us. The last time I was blamed by smb…he was a pug who replaced our mia slayer. The very second he called me “noob mystic”, a kick pop-up appeared and as soon as I confirmed, he was out. Good parties don’t let anybody abuse their healer. If a healer is getting cursed at all the time and there is nobody willing to defend them…that healer ain’t good. In 9Dragons we griefed a guild into disbanding because their leader insulted one of our healers.

The mystic has better lock on skills, the priests heals consist mostly out of ground targeting. The last time I played Tera his lock on (priest) skill was inadequate as you get closer to max level. I don’t play Tera because of fees and because questing was annoyingly boring, not because of the healer/trinity. But enuf discussion about the competition, don’t you think

Fees? Tera is free to play.

Next week, not when I played

Not next week, it’s actually playable now, as i’m playing it and have been for a few days, created a NA account as im from EU.

It’s free for all users until the 16th, and then there’s going to be a waiting period until February, when the actual free-to-play model gets implemented.

Don’t expect to stay for very long, however, because after level 30 that game goes downhill forever until you have nothing left to do at level 60. I guess since it’s free now, you are getting what you’re paying for. I saw someone up there in this thread say it requires skill, which is entirely false. You move your mouse more, sure, but. It ends up being as skillful as any other MMO.

On topic, though. I can see why someone would miss healers. Knowing your role in combat is nice, and it makes things easy. You don’t have to think about what’s going on beyond the confines of health bars and cooldowns. I think it’s that that GW2 is trying to avoid. They’re forcing everyone to pay attention and work together because now you don’t have an infinite supply of full heals to fall back on.

Again, the trinity system is nice because it allows you to know EXACTLY what it is you’re supposed to be doing. GW2’s system is nice because it encourages working together. Depends on what you prefer, in the end.