Guild Wars 2

Hamish.1384:

Sylpheed.8163:

Makoto.9647:

We don’t really sacrifice that much for a dps build, I run zerkers with 16k HP and find myself being just fine. The only type of warrior I even struggle to fight against is pure regen tank condi warriors in a 1v1 situation, and it just usually draws out into no one dying. If you want to have pure zerkers with the same amount of survivability we currently have + more HP then what’s the point of playing a Warrior? Our DPS spec is viable, and I addressed the need for more soft CC (Which is cripple/chill/snare/etc if you don’t know the terminology). We have a good amount of leaps and blinks and utilities that give movement speed. (Which we won’t need to use if we get more soft CC). You keep saying that we sacrifice too much survivability to go dps spec but most of our needed traits are in the valor / honor lines anyway, and again.. If you want to maintain the survivability we have now with more damage, that’s just broken. There has to be some kind of give and take balance, you can’t have it all.

I would seriously like to know how you have 16K HP in “zerkers”? I assume when you say that, since you did not specify otherwise, that you mean full zerkers, armor, weapons, and trinkets. If you are running a DPS setup, then you don’t have the extra vitality either, so you “should” have about 13,500 HP. Now, as an example, I can run full zerkers with my Warrior, and Im sitting at about 19,500 HP. That’s with nothing traited for vitality, and I guarantee you, I am outdamaging any Guard on the field by about 3 times what they can individually put out. Now, Guardians have burst, yes if spec’d full DPS I can burst a warrior down to about a third of their health in one go.

However, that means everything goes on CD, what happens next is all too familiar for us, they escape – Bulls Charge, Sword #2, GS #3 or #5 whatever you name it. Yes you touched on the fact we need better soft cc, I posted above I think a good fix for our sword #2 and JI to be more efficient they should be area targetable, but you know what, even then a warrior will gain distance on us if they are using the 25% speed trait, unless we are using Traveler Runes. I’ve run a Signet build on a guardian that maximizes vulnerability stacks and Mighty Blow hits hard but the CC you get from our Bane Signet and…the condition damage one is nice but the cast time is too long on them imo.

You also talk about abilities that provide speed, so you are talking about Retreat, and Save Yourselves which are shouts, and if you are running a “Guardian DPS” build you should be using meditations in which case you won’t have either of those on your bar. Can you have DPS with a shout build? Of course you can, but you won’t be able to maximize your burst potential.

I posted above my thoughts about our condition damage being a Guardian only condition not shared with other classes, also someone posted above an idea in the zeal line that converts power to vitality which I think would be a great idea then my idea of giving us base 3500 HP, which BTW still puts us well below that of a Warrior, only one class in the game has less HP then a Guard and that’s Thieves. I think class balance is great, obviously, but ANET needs to address this condition meta, simple fix, add immunity timers. What is the point of condi removal if it gets reapplied instantly, and for a class like us HP is what saves our you know what’s when it comes to conditions, which as pointed out, are second lowest pool in the game. So all that protection we get, don’t mean jack you know what.

Well full zerker is impossible to run with good survivability with any class.
But i run valkery and zerk gear, with rune of speed runes they are much better than travelers in this meta. Traveler dont give that muc dps, but speed give massive hp.
Then i have a 10/30/30 build. I run with around 16.300hp, about 60%crith chanse with RHS and 80%with fury. I have around 110% critdamage with food, 3400 power.

Sylpheed.8163:

Makoto.9647:

Sylpheed.8163:

Makoto.9647:

Sylpheed.8163:

Okay, first of all Anet has stated that they don’t want Guardian to be another Warrior class. Each class should bring something to the table, and they’ve said countless times that they want Guardian to be more of the support role, but also be able to perform in other areas (DPS, etc). Yeah, a lot of these buffs are underwhelming but they’re buffs regardless, and it shows that they want to make more builds a bit better. They’re not going to give us 3k+ health for DPS builds, or other broken stuff that many people have suggested.. That’s ludicrous. We practically have the best support and insane sustained healing / survivability /tankiness. Our DPS builds and damage are fine, and all we lack really is soft CC to help stay in melee range of targets and maybe a bit of condition damage. So many complaints and counter suggestions in this thread would just make Guardian even more broken. We are by far the most balanced class, and I’ve enjoyed it being this way since beta. I’m sorry, but you should go play Warrior / Thief / whatever other classes you can’t handle on your guardian if you want to be “OP”, not that they even really are.

Thats just dumb. I mean warriors can support as good as us. We wouldent be “just another” warrior class because we can do damage.
There is no contradiction in the “lore” of a guardian to be able to either do damage or be support.

I’m glad to know you can’t read, and that you really don’t know much about either class. Warriors can support, but in a much different way with -some- similarities. Just like other classes can support, too. (Not to mention guardians get support skills on virtues, on weapons and many utilities.) And guess what? We can do damage, just like warriors other classes. If you think Guardians can’t do damage you’re greatly mistaken, please learn the class before posting. Also, no one is even talking about the lore of the game. Stay on topic please.

Ill pass your childish remarks.

You seamd to have taken offence. But I didentcall you dumb it were directed to arenanet for having the attitude that a guardian buffed offensivly would be a new warrior. And thats just dumb.
Second of all I know the class pretty well so I know what im talking about. Third, what I meent with “lore” were not the games lore but more arenanets view about the guardian clas of some slowmoving support class, with dps traits that aint viable. There view on classes is a part of lore.
Fourth I know a guard can do damage, and I know it can do lots of damage. But it aint viable as a damage dealer in many acpects and one is movmentspeed and the other is the low healthpool and the fact we need (in different to warriors) sacrifice so much of our survivability.

We don’t really sacrifice that much for a dps build, I run zerkers with 16k HP and find myself being just fine. The only type of warrior I even struggle to fight against is pure regen tank condi warriors in a 1v1 situation, and it just usually draws out into no one dying. If you want to have pure zerkers with the same amount of survivability we currently have + more HP then what’s the point of playing a Warrior? Our DPS spec is viable, and I addressed the need for more soft CC (Which is cripple/chill/snare/etc if you don’t know the terminology). We have a good amount of leaps and blinks and utilities that give movement speed. (Which we won’t need to use if we get more soft CC). You keep saying that we sacrifice too much survivability to go dps spec but most of our needed traits are in the valor / honor lines anyway, and again.. If you want to maintain the survivability we have now with more damage, that’s just broken. There has to be some kind of give and take balance, you can’t have it all.

I run a similar one. But i agree we do need cc because i do massive damage on none moving targets. Our burst is to easy to dodge imo.
But when i talk about more hp i feel like in bigger fights 10 v10 in wvw we have a bit of a problem imo.
And not to talk about the spiritweapons (who i would love to run) is bad right now…. The posibilitys for a roaming build in wvw with spiritweapons and even support are so good. Why arenanet….

Sylpheed.8163:

Makoto.9647:

Sylpheed.8163:

Okay, first of all Anet has stated that they don’t want Guardian to be another Warrior class. Each class should bring something to the table, and they’ve said countless times that they want Guardian to be more of the support role, but also be able to perform in other areas (DPS, etc). Yeah, a lot of these buffs are underwhelming but they’re buffs regardless, and it shows that they want to make more builds a bit better. They’re not going to give us 3k+ health for DPS builds, or other broken stuff that many people have suggested.. That’s ludicrous. We practically have the best support and insane sustained healing / survivability /tankiness. Our DPS builds and damage are fine, and all we lack really is soft CC to help stay in melee range of targets and maybe a bit of condition damage. So many complaints and counter suggestions in this thread would just make Guardian even more broken. We are by far the most balanced class, and I’ve enjoyed it being this way since beta. I’m sorry, but you should go play Warrior / Thief / whatever other classes you can’t handle on your guardian if you want to be “OP”, not that they even really are.

Thats just dumb. I mean warriors can support as good as us. We wouldent be “just another” warrior class because we can do damage.
There is no contradiction in the “lore” of a guardian to be able to either do damage or be support.

I’m glad to know you can’t read, and that you really don’t know much about either class. Warriors can support, but in a much different way with -some- similarities. Just like other classes can support, too. (Not to mention guardians get support skills on virtues, on weapons and many utilities.) And guess what? We can do damage, just like warriors other classes. If you think Guardians can’t do damage you’re greatly mistaken, please learn the class before posting. Also, no one is even talking about the lore of the game. Stay on topic please.

Ill pass your childish remarks.

You seamd to have taken offence. But I didentcall you dumb it were directed to arenanet for having the attitude that a guardian buffed offensivly would be a new warrior. And thats just dumb.
Second of all I know the class pretty well so I know what im talking about. Third, what I meent with “lore” were not the games lore but more arenanets view about the guardian clas of some slowmoving support class, with dps traits that aint viable. There view on classes is a part of lore.
Fourth I know a guard can do damage, and I know it can do lots of damage. But it aint viable as a damage dealer in many acpects and one is movmentspeed and the other is the low healthpool and the fact we need (in different to warriors) sacrifice so much of our survivability.

Sylpheed.8163:

Okay, first of all Anet has stated that they don’t want Guardian to be another Warrior class. Each class should bring something to the table, and they’ve said countless times that they want Guardian to be more of the support role, but also be able to perform in other areas (DPS, etc). Yeah, a lot of these buffs are underwhelming but they’re buffs regardless, and it shows that they want to make more builds a bit better. They’re not going to give us 3k+ health for DPS builds, or other broken stuff that many people have suggested.. That’s ludicrous. We practically have the best support and insane sustained healing / survivability /tankiness. Our DPS builds and damage are fine, and all we lack really is soft CC to help stay in melee range of targets and maybe a bit of condition damage. So many complaints and counter suggestions in this thread would just make Guardian even more broken. We are by far the most balanced class, and I’ve enjoyed it being this way since beta. I’m sorry, but you should go play Warrior / Thief / whatever other classes you can’t handle on your guardian if you want to be “OP”, not that they even really are.

Thats just dumb. I mean warriors can support as good as us. We wouldent be “just another” warrior class because we can do damage.
There is no contradiction in the “lore” of a guardian to be able to either do damage or be support.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

We don’t need more HP. We’d be unstoppable. We could use some other stuff. But not more HP.

I agree with you when it comes to the healwaybuild and support AH builds. But the problem is that there alot of us also who dont like warriors but want to play more dps-offensive guardians. And we need a bit of a fix tbh. There is no contradiction in making a guardian good support and good dps depended on how you gear and spec them. But now we have 1 option if we want to viable.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

TereuS.1436:

dude, really? do you really own a guard and say they dont have speed?

1. staff
   2 shouts

with that you get perma speed

Yep, we can chase down every class sans necro with that. /s

Yes and it also demand that we go support to have speed.

Because of the meta with heavy condition builds i use rune of speed due to the increase in hp. The loss in dps from traveler aint that big.

Aza.2105:

Makoto.9647:

And this is a bit disappointing. They made the game and said that the classes would be able to fulfill many roles. But in contrast to other classes Guardians are forced in to a supportive zerg class. We who picked the class and were thinking of going other routs promised by Anet possible for all classes?

This applies to every class in the game I believe. Most are forced to run a few builds because others just don’t work well.

Also, I wanted to add for Jon a brief summary of what I understand about Guardian’s design.

Guardian is a melee oriented class, who is slow and defensive. Not meant to be fast since their presence is strong in group settings like wvw. Their range attack options are inadequate yet they have nothing to consistently stay on top of targets while using melee skills. I just do not understand the design philosophy for the class. Why isn’t guardian a primarily ranged class with heavy armor? It would make more sense due to the fact that they are slow and stationary.

There was a stream several months ago, were one of the developers specifically stated that guardian is meant to teleport to their target and stay there. This is sort of true, when you teleport to a target in pve mobs stay there with you. However in pvp, when you teleport to a target they are unlikely to stay there with you.

I’m not trying to be sarcastic or anything. I just want to understand what the devs imagine for the class. Once again I state from my perspective a melee oriented class that can’t stay in melee range consistently makes no sense. A slow, defensive class with poor access to mobility who has inadequate ranged options doesn’t make much sense.

Out of all the classes, guardian is the only one who seems to have this issue.

Tbh thats not right.
Warrior for example are good in wvw both solo, zerge and minigroup and in different rolles like support, tanky and dps.
Same with theif, elementalist, mesmer etc to make some. But the Guardian is stuck with 1 role and that is support both in zerge and in small groupplay. For example when we are in need to carry a staff to get a speedbuff for smallgroup or solo roaming we then are forced in to support.

Aza.2105:

Anet’s vision of guardian is some what hard to understand, a few things I have gathered from what I read from Jon’s post’s in regards to guardian is:

1. The class isn’t suppose to be mobile, its suppose to be slow.
2. The class is a defensive class, its not suppose to do as much damage as the other classes.

Both in my opinion are at odds with being a melee oriented class. Especially the first. As a melee class if it can’t be mobile, how can it keep pressure on anything? Which is dps guardian’s primary problem.

The second is understandable to a degree but only a bunker guardian can fulfill the term being defensive. But then it runs into the problem of not being able to do damage at all. While a offensive guardian has no defensive characteristics of the class. It shows that theories on Anet’s papers aren’t exactly playing out in game.

If we are indeed suppose to be a melee class, who isn’t suppose to be mobile, who doesn’t suppose to do as much damage as the other classes then do not punish guardians for not being in melee range and for not being able to dish out as much damage as the other class.

Because for now both strengths of guardian are severe weaknesses. I personally feel guardian doesn’t need a damage boost, in the long run it will either be ineffective or possibly overpowered. The class doesn’t need that.

What it does need is a rewarding experience of being defensive and being stationary. The class initially had retaliation, which some what dealt with kiting problems and put purpose on being a stationary class. It was nerfed to the ground.

Offensive guardians just need better access to defensive capabilities. Likewise defensive guardian shouldn’t be so polarized to were their damage is completely insignificant (perhaps rebuff retaliation?). Spirit weapons could also help guardian’s ranged problems if they worked.

At any rate, something needs to be done. The class doesn’t need to become warrior 2.0. Yet, the class shouldn’t be severely punished for working as intended: being defensive and slow. Anet has said it themselves, they do not want to create a dedicated healer in gw2. Yet, guardian feels awfully close to that.

And this is a bit disapointing. They made the game and said that the classes would be able to fullfill many rolles. But in contrast to other clases Guardians are forced in to a supportive zerg class. We who picked the class and were thinking of going other routs promissed by Anet posible for all classes?

I still wonder when Anet will give spiritweapon some love for wvw. They are totaly usless in both wvw and pve due to the aoe damage. Then there is some problems with the comands. And the fact it takes 1.5 sec to summon so it will take you 3 seconds just to get sword and hammer ready. And thats a longe time if you are in a fight. And you cant summon them before because then the timer for them being up will run out…

When will they fix the Spiriteapons so we can actualy use them. I would loveto build my guardian with them…

I like the idé of a permanent spiritweapon.

1. The bigest problem for me is that it cant last aoe damage and is there for usless in pve/wvw.
2. The other one is the summoning time. If they don´t make them permanent atleast make the summoning instant.
3. The mecanic are not that smoth. Hammer command works nice but sword should chase the target before use its command. It can be raly hard to hit with.
4. The power of them Shield and bow are so suless. WoR are better than shield and i would take alot of other skills to use bow.
Bow should target guardian imo with heal and heal for more to make up for the fact you dont have AH or med healing on the build

Nice matchup against Blobadon mouth and Underworld. Pretty cute when Blobadon somtimes run with a blob in ruins….

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I think it’s past due time to evaluate the spirit weapons on a serious level. Most of the discussions about it thus far, that I have seen anyway, have been mostly raw complaints with little constructive ideas. So I will start off and add things as I come across them:

• The non-combat weapons run into melee range and get obliterated by aoe as soon as you summon them. Also both the bow and shield refuse to perform their jobs outside of combat (I know it’s not as important that the shield bubble-up, but it is worth noting since even if you enter combat it sometimes won’t bubble unless you are already being hit- although it would be nice for it to begin bubbling after summon, but out of combat condition removal should be priority of the bow)
• Sometimes both the sword and hammer will fail to activate their command skills even when a target is selected ( and even less often often when a target is not selected)
• Summoning time is not an appropriate ratio to upkeep time, meaning the risk/reward ratio for how long it takes to summon them does not reflect the reward of having them out doing the damage. Especially for the defensive ones. I can see keeping the longer summon time for the offensive ones, but you need those defensive ones at your command when you call, not having to wait for a long cast before they even appear, then again wait for them to recognize you’re in combat before their effects even take place. Pre-summoning isn’t really a viable option because of their short duration and long recharge. They may very well expire before they can even perform a single action.

These are som solid suggestions. They need o fix spiritweapons for PvE and wvw. They are totaly usless right now. I rather take CoP instead of bow for conditions and the heal is totaly usless, it need to scale. The shield as stated are so muche worse than WoR. The sword command is so bad should seek up enemy like hammer does.
Then also the spiritweapons need to have the same speed as the user and if you use speed buffsthey get far behind you….

These changes are needed NOW. Bump

They should atleast make the summoning spells instant. And if not imune to damage atleast highten hp ALOT.

Well i agree that it may be a big problem in spvp. But i should have stated that were i like to play (WvWvW) spiritweapons are usless. First of all it is to long to spawn them. Second is the hp is way to low. So easy to burst down and in a bigger fight 10+ they are destroyd in seconds.

Realy need to make these instant and indestructible to be viable at a start. Mor ethings is needed but I think that would be a start…

dbgamer.3407:

I’ve read a few things about people asking for new weapons and classes etc. and ANET responding with “it’s mote likely to see new skills” and thought I’d make a suggestion.

I think people would appreciate the addition of at least one new weapon skill per class while we wait for net new weapons. By that, I don’t mean additions to CURRENT weapon sets, I mean the addition of a NEW weapon wielding ability.

My recommendation for new weapon wielding abilities, allow:

Elementalist:
- allow them to use Greatsword

Engineers:
- Shortbow

Guardians:
- off-hand sword

Mesmer:
- Main hand pistol

Necromancer:
- off hand axe

Ranger:
- Rifle

Thief:
- Longbow

Warrior:
- Torch

I think it would be an easy update, and would allow players to explore new play styles with their current characters, or start a new character because they can play new classes with new weapons

As a Guardian i dont want off-hand sword. I feel that if all can use the same weapons they be to much alike. I would rather se they change the torch-skills so it more worked like a melee weapon. Now its more used at range.