Guild Wars 2

dchsknight.3042:

I do perscion on my armor and weapons and toughness on my rings and relic item. The seems to balance it out. I use vitality on my inserts o weapons and runes on armor.

What kind of sigils defense or offense?

Servanin.5021:

Its not just about HP though; Cataclysm brought standardized health pools, and any boss attack that hit the party instead of just the tank was all magic damage, so plate was meaningless.

That way, the difficulty of the encounter was pre-set, rather than ranging from impossible because you have to eat an AoE that does 20k damage when you only have 17k max HP, to trivial because you can just ignore that AoE and heal through it.

In GW2, it can be easy and slow by being an AoE weakness spammer with high vit/toughness, or it can be extremely painful but less slow with berserker set.

How many people actually play high survivability as their playstyle? People just wanna see big numbers and rage when they fail….and it seems most people won’t try anything new.

Dark Savior.7589:

The problem with adding vitality to eveything is that it really is only in some areas that the problem exists, dungeons and for some pvp. Adding vitality to everything would kill the balance of the regular mobs in the open world and in story missions. It would be better to look at how hard mobs hit in dungeons, especially since, IMO, the problem there is that everything is just inflated to create the challenge, hits harder, more HP, more immune to CC, as opposed to, for instance, being more clever AI, or using bigger monster packs of regular or at least less inflated enemies.

Less inflated as in over-tuned?

Bruno Sardine.2907:

Malas.9425:

Bruno Sardine.2907:

The toughness or vitality debates varies a lot based on class and circumstance. What I’ve seemed to distill from trying to find a good source is the following rules of thumb:

+ Total armor value should be at least 1/10th of your total health value. Just an FYI, vitality = +10 health/point whereas toughness = +1 armor/point.

+ If you generally take more direct hits, consider toughness over vitality but don’t necessarily exclude vitality altogether.

+ If you take more condition damage and get directly hit infrequently, consider vitality over toughness.

I think it really depends if armor is linear or does it have Diminishing returns. If so, we need to find out where the DR starts and that will help uskitten a good armor level to health.

Yeah I should’ve mentioned that… armor does have diminishing returns but there’s no real consensus (and Anet has not given us) on the damage reduction formula. My 1:10 ratio rule of thumb was based off of what I gathered from discussions in terms of having a decent defensive mix of health and armor to overcome any situation. The further investment in toughness or vitality makes you more resilient to a certain type of damage dealing; more toughness = taking more consistent hits, more vitality = absorbing more condition damage and big hits. It seems that if you’re generally close to this ratio to start, investing in toughness isn’t going to be too detrimental, but you shouldn’t invest exclusively in it.

I think it maybe time for me to invest into a website. Maybe something like elitist jerks lol.

Bruno Sardine.2907:

The toughness or vitality debates varies a lot based on class and circumstance. What I’ve seemed to distill from trying to find a good source is the following rules of thumb:

+ Total armor value should be at least 1/10th of your total health value. Just an FYI, vitality = +10 health/point whereas toughness = +1 armor/point.

+ If you generally take more direct hits, consider toughness over vitality but don’t necessarily exclude vitality altogether.

+ If you take more condition damage and get directly hit infrequently, consider vitality over toughness.

I think it really depends if armor is linear or does it have Diminishing returns. If so, we need to find out where the DR starts and that will help uskitten a good armor level to health.

Nevermind, now I can’t view it…..

dchsknight.3042:

Toughness>vitality

As for this whole toughness>vitality debacle I would LOVE to do some testing on it. Just need a couple people to help with information, you can message me for more information.

Edited by moderator: Quotes deleted since the original messages are not there any more

If you don’t like my thread then leave nothing compelling you to sit here and troll, plenty of QQing elsewhere.

Smackjack.5071:

Another : but but this is not how WoW does it.. thread.

Another ignorant post that didn’t even read what I wrote. I will sum it up. WoW puts STAM on your gear for a reason and Guild Wars 2 doesn’t. It is a MECHANIC thread not a WoW does it better thread. I think Guild Wars 2 has a perfectly fine system in place and I was just trying to relate the games for some people.

Please READ my thread before POSTING.

LiuliRenai.3928:

Actually WoW doesn’t do this and nor does LoL or DotA2 amoung many other popular games. It’s is total crap what Anet is pulling. If I make a guide for their dungeons and people watch and watch the ADs for my guide(aka intellectual property) why shouldn’t I get compensated

You are seriously misinformed.

Here’s a breakdown of exactly what the situation is, and what it has actually always been, given by a youtube person that does a lot of GW1 and GW2 videos, WoodenPotatoes:

http://youtu.be/byg3emEocio

Well problem is still there, and honestly it is setting GW2 up to fail. People don’t do things (for very long) when there is no reason to do it. Just a fact deal with it. People who make good videos all the time are making money off of it. They aren’t doing it purely because they want to.

marianitten.1247:

Malas.9425:

WoW kittys everwhere! This is a terrible post, hope it gets deleted. Try reddit?

Relax man… this post is to make fun. Nobody is talking about wow. But we know what happens that day, and we know what they did a similiar thing in launch day.
User your imagination!

I just don’t think this is the place for a post like this is all, although I due appreciate the humor.

Artorous.8573:

I use Knight gear with Soldier runes. I am going to go after the Invader gear though as it has Soldier stats. I might swap the runes around then to give more Precission so I can crit. Need to check but if there is a Pre/Tough/Vit rune then i’ll probably pick that one.

Now in terms of Invasion gear I will say something should be done to increase badge drops in WvW zones. I killed around 40 people in 2 yours of playtime last night and got 2 badges. I don’t mind taking a month or two to save up for T3 Cultural Armor or Dungeon sets but my luck has to be quite bad for getting 2 in 2 hours when each piece is 300. Maybe make it where ever kill grants 1 badge? Still need to kill a couple thousand players to get it, but at least RNG wont screw you over. At least I get 20 or so from the jump puzzles.

Mind asking what class you play???

Mastermind.3169:

Malas.9425:

…can’t NOT…

^^

Thanks, and Edited.

WoW kittys everwhere! This is a terrible post, hope it gets deleted. Try reddit?

Hickeroar.9734:

The idea in GW2 is not to stack vitality. It’s to avoid getting hit in the first place. Stacking health and toughness won’t save you if you just stand there whacking the mobs with your sword.

I think you need a health combination. In short, you aren’t perfect and you will not be able to dodge everything.

nastyjman.8207:

Swagman.9013:

I could but I would just use my current livestream channel that I’ve been showing off the bwes in the past.

The thought never occurred to me to record my dungeon runs. I guess I can start doing it.

I’ve been searching youtube for any clean runs on dungeons with commentaries — there are none.

Maybe cause you can’t make money doing it, I was gonna start a website and make YouTube videos but really no point when Anet is just gonna say no go to kittyheaven!

evilbottom.2186:

Their (or rather, NCsoft’s) view is the same as just about any other games, with the exception of certain indie games throughout the gaming community. Everyone overreacted to what should have been common knowledge.

Actually WoW doesn’t do this and nor does LoL or DotA2 amoung many other popular games. It’s is total crap what Anet is pulling. If I make a guide for their dungeons and people watch and watch the ADs for my guide(aka intellectual property) why shouldn’t I get compensated.

Swagman.9013:

I could but I would just use my current livestream channel that I’ve been showing off the bwes in the past.

The thought never occurred to me to record my dungeon runs. I guess I can start doing it.

Don’t expect any monetization of your work!

tertle.4621:

Toughness is much better for dungeons as it improves your sustainability whereas vitality is good for stopping burst damage (hence it’s great in pvp).

I haven’t tested toughness enough, and In my opinion it is hard to see the effects immediately just cause you can’t see how much damage it is mitigating.

cosmatman.9306:

@ OP

WoW isnt a very good comparison. A lot of the gear in WoW had your main stat along with stam. Only a very very small portion of blue or purple gear had straight agi/int/str on it. I dont even think they have gear like that anymore (greens not included).

I saw this problem when i started playing TSW too. You had to choose between health, power or healing pieces. I would say that both new people and wow vets alike go for the stat that fits their role. New players do it, because it makes sense, vet MMO players may do it because they think they can get away with it or they want to min-max. Of those though, new players will be easier to convince that you need to have some health and that you cant just stack 1 stat.

I am more using WoW as a comparison Guild Wars 2 in the way of stat customization and how WoW forces you to have Stamina(health) and Guild wars 2 doesn’t.

Apotheosis.3786:

CharrGirl.7896:

This isn’t Blizzard, this is Anet. They have a different design philosophy.
And this isn’t WoW this is GW2. Two completely different games.

Dunno, I like the dungeons are hard. Challenge accepted

They aren’t hard at all. I haven’t failed any dungeon I’ve done. Story or explore.

Teach me your ways! Must have a really good guild!

Feranor.2053:

The reason is rather simple. Blizzard didn’t profit from player deaths. AN/NCSoft does.

Actually, the more you die in WoW the longer it takes for you to get the gear that you want, so that will make you stay SUBed so they do profit from death. Your point is invalid.

CharrGirl.7896:

This isn’t Blizzard, this is Anet. They have a different design philosophy.
And this isn’t WoW this is GW2. Two completely different games.

Dunno, I like the dungeons are hard. Challenge accepted

That was kind of the whole point of the post….one company allows FULL customization of stats and one gives you set stats, and barley allows room for adjustment.

Apotheosis.3786:

Not everything can be dodged. There is constant radiating AoE damage that doesn’t even have a spell effect. I tried glass cannon, and I was constantly 1 shot by things that you cannot see. I tried a healing power build, and my heals were a joke. No, your only option is to balance our your stats so that you can simultaneously heal tank and dps. Trying to focus on one is a recipe for disaster.

Exactly! You decide how much of each though, it is all up to you weather you do just slightly more damage then someone else or are slightly more survivable. It is a amazing design.

Painking.4703:

Skolops.2604:

Rizzy.8293:

Um… we call it vitality
If you want HP and defence try going for Carrion gear.

And stack your traits on vitality and toughness lines.

Carrion gear is the glass cannonist of glass cannony gear. No toughness at all.

Berserker’s gear is glass cannon incarnate. At least Carrion increases your HP total, Berserker doesn’t have neither vitality nor toughness, just raw power, precision, and crit damage.

I am almost positive that Warriors are the only class that can sort of get away with this. Considering they have huge innate health pools and are in heavy armor, which makes them OP imo….but that is for another discussion lol.

Apotheosis.3786:

Malas.9425:

Rizzy.8293:

Um… we call it vitality
If you want HP and defence try going for Carrion gear.

And stack your traits on vitality and toughness lines.

I was just trying to put things in perspective to WoW, and yes I know it is Vit. Just seems no one has it lol.

Some people want to play the glass cannon role. The game kinda forces you to play like everyone else though.

Glass cannon works if you can dodge everything lol. You see Anet wanted YOU to make the choices of how much of each stat you have, I view pure class cannon builds as PvP builds for the simple fact that you are going to get hit in a dungeon.

Stark.1350:

You forget, Malas. Some people here want everything handed to them in a day while being able to produce giant crit damage without having to worry about all that other stuff. It’s just too complicated.

Which is fine, but you better be sure that you can dodge EVERYTHING and know every encounter like that back of your hand to do so.

Rizzy.8293:

Um… we call it vitality
If you want HP and defence try going for Carrion gear.

And stack your traits on vitality and toughness lines.

I was just trying to put things in perspective to WoW, and yes I know it is Vit. Just seems no one has it lol.

So, as many of you know I see tons of complaints that dungeons are too hard and the mobs hit for way too much. I am here to shed a little light on the situation. First and foremost you can NOT do DAMAGE when you are DEAD! This is stressed in so many MMOs that it should make your head spin. Secondly for all those World of Warcraft players I bet you remember there being STAM on your gear.
Let’s take a look at why:

*You are GOING to take damage and no health=ONE SHOT

*Everyone makes mistakes, having a higher health pool will help to mitigate you being human.

Now this being said Blizzard made it SO EASY for you! You never had to say well I wanna do more damage but I know if I get hit by X I will die, so I guess I will sacrifice some damage so I can get hit by X. Anet DOESN’T hold your hand for a reason! They want you to feel as though you have MORE customization and MORE control over how your character plays.

In the end it is all up to you on how well you want to succeed and dungeon. Is sacrificing even 25% of your damage output really that bad, that you absolutely can’t and you would rather be face down. Just a little insight. Hope it helps.

It really comes down to how hard people are trying to solve problems they encounter in the dungeon. Are they coordinated killing one thing all together, or did they think that they could just faceroll through the dungeon. Gear also plays a part as well as not everyone being speced like a glass cannon.

Seras.5702:

The OP posted his take on how enjoyable the game is to him, how even after 350 hours he’s not bored….and he gets ripped on. A positive post meant to inspire those QQers that whine about nothing to do in GW2 and he gets torn up for having no life and being a liar. He posted a screenshot. It even says he played that current character for 25 hours over 2 days.

I for one wish I had more time to play GW2, but am not concerned with not being 80 yet. This is a game to enjoy the scenery along the way and I’m doing just that. Trying multiple professions out, exploring for map completion, experimenting with various builds, etc. Have fun with it.

It’s funny cause most of the people who "rushed’ through the game also complain they have no money and can’t buy anything in the game. I know for fact if they were to go slow about it and clear zones and take a look around it wouldn’t even be an issue for them.

P.S Thanks for having my back.

Stukov.9504:

Malas.9425:

Oxe.6142:

The fact that you feel the need to make a post like this just points out in neon lights that there is a huge problem.

Actually I REALLY want people to enjoy this game, but I guess that is a problem.

Why do you care if other people enjoy it or not? Do you need other people to enjoy it in order for you to enjoy it too? If peeople start leaving, will it make the game less enjoyable to you?

I think we can all agree that the better the game does the better it will be. The more amount of people the better WvW matches, you will have ease finding a group, and among nothing else it will pump money into Anet which will help expand the game. I know you are gonna say it is sub free but let’s face the facts that people do buy gems and the more people playing means more people buying gems.

Oxe.6142:

The fact that you feel the need to make a post like this just points out in neon lights that there is a huge problem.

Actually I REALLY want people to enjoy this game, but I guess that is a problem.

Hickeroar.9734:

I call BS on the 350 hours of actual play though… Musta just left the game logged into a player or something like that. (there are programs you can get that will simulate “hits” of movement buttons every X number of minutes to keep games from auto-logging you). For 350 hours, That’s almost 16 hours of playtime a day since the game launched. Either this guy is a HS dropout living with mom and no job, or that number is fabricated in some way.

Even then, that only leaves 8 hours a day for combined sleeping and eating for the last three weeks…

Yes it is probably more of 300+ hours, I would leave the game on while I did stuff. I am unemployed however it’s a bad economy and I live in a swamp so jobs are really hard to come by. I actually live with my GF who also plays GW2. I have never ever ran a bot or macro to keep me logged in really don’t see the point. As for sleeping I sleep 3-4 hours a night I have some issues I would rather not discuss. Number is hardly fabricated and I was just trying to provide some insight on the game from someone who has played a long time.

souldonkey.9534:

Malas.9425:

Well there is a way to fight every boss, most people just aren’t looking deep enough into the mechanics of the game. There is so much more groups could do to coordinate but they don’t.

Agreed. Most boss fights do have interesting and unique mechanics. The only problem I’ve seen in dungeons so far is that it’s too easy to just cheese the boss by traveling to a way point and running back to the fight. If they took away that ability alone, people would be more forced to learn the mechanics of the fights.

To be quite honest I think it is in there for the casual players or people who would super rage at the game because they simply just couldn’t beat a dungeon. I wish I could find people willingly to experiment in dungeons.

Hostar.1390:

It never gets old seeing these threads so soon after a launch.

You’ve basically blitzed, inside of 3 weeks, the content that will take 90% of the community the next 3 months to do.

I’ve done the same thing. Tons of gold, exotic gear/weaps on two characters, two sets of full dungeon gear and 3 level 80s. I’ve yet to do 100% map completion but don’t really care. However: I know exactly what i’ve done and now I have to accept it and enjoy things like SPVP/WvW/Dungeons/Event farming (the repeatable stuff, basically)

I don’t see how you can come on a forum and get angry about the way you decided to play the game. Expecting there to be enough content to satisfy 14 hours a day for the next year is just unrealistic.

Not complaining there isn’t any content, I am saying there is plenty of content.

Soothsayer.9476:

You have played around 14 hours every single day for the past 3 and a half weeks. You know that’s unhealthy right?

Thanks for your concern, but when I do something that I enjoy and take pride in I get a little obsessive. Also smoking is bad but people still do it. :P

Tiresias.6473:

The problem here is that you have played 350 hours in less than a month.

There is no subscription fee so you don’t have to feel like you are wasting money by participating in another activity for a while.

I am actually not bored after 350 hours, but you are right.

Valkyrie.2678:

I’m under 350 hours and bored. Details are below:

I have two crafting professions leveled to 400. You might say I should level all professions to 400. Here is my answer:

It cost me 7g to level weaponsmithing from level 1 to level 400, ‘without any gathering, farming’. So I’ve bought all materials from TP and it still cost me 7g. I have 25g atm so I can have four other professions maximum leveled if I farm 3g more. I wouldn’t do this, because this is repetition.

I have 100% world completion.

I have full exotic gear. Armor, weapons, accessories. You might say I should start collecting skins. I already have a bunch of dungeon skins and I don’t wanna get more, because it is nothing but just repetition.

No need to mention level 80.

You might say I should do all dungeons’ explorable modes and I say no, because it is nearly impossible with casual players. Not blaming them though, dungeons are designed for leets only.

You might say I should craft a legendary. I already have bloodstone shard and two gift recipes, as well as two gifts of exploration. I can farm 525k karma for obsidian shards but I wouldn’t do that because it is repetition. I can’t farm 350g because CoF got nerfed and even if it weren’t, it was still repetition.

Luckily for you there isn’t a Sub fee! Oh did you by chance check out WvW or SPvP???

Death Aggro.9602:

Malas.9425:

Orbys.4895:

For one simple reason: Better/Structured Dungeons.

My friend said guild wars 2 is a pretty good game, and made a lot of improvements, but the one thing that WoW has that he loves is what he called Structured Dungeons. Particularly the boss fights. He said they are not just “large hp pools” that drag on for 30 minutes.

There is technique, and design that must be done to defeat bosses other then just whacking away. Using intractable things like cannons, vehicles, and trap switches.

Now I never played wow and dont intend to, but that does sound pretty neat to me. I wish my friend would come play Gw2 with me, but he refuses until they “polish” the game he says, and create good dungeons, not just zerg rushes.

Well there is a way to fight every boss, most people just aren’t looking deep enough into the mechanics of the game. There is so much more groups could do to coordinate but they don’t.

Plz tell me oh wise one. And post videos and screens. But im guessing your just talking out of your kitten.

Well I can tell you in the seer path Arah EM boss fight there is a simple fight that we figured out just needed it us to stack and use condition removal AoEs and rotate them and it made the boss too easy. Also the abomination boss in Arah EM is really easy if you just stack in melee and have a tiny bit of condition removal, or a Guardian with Aegis. There is always a way you just aren’t looking.

Manifoldgodhead.2356:

The sad part is the only reason dungeons are not fun is that most people are not willing to invest time in learning the new mechanics of the new trinity.

I remember back in the day I used to hate Wailing Caverns. It was bullkitten, the mobs hit too hard and no one knew what they were doing and we wiped and wiped and wiped. The reason was that that game had brought a lot of new people, including me, to MMO’s so we did not know how the trinity worked.

Of course, once we figured it out, it was a joke. All the fights in the game turned into the same 3 or 4 basic mechanics. That’s where we got the traditional “tank and spank” strat from back when it was new and shiny.

I know its hard. There is so much new in this game. So much new when you haven’t played anything new in years. The dungeon strats make no sense because they are all fresh to you and the rewards don’t feel rewarding because even the reward system still has the cellophane on it.

So there is going to be some transitioning, but honestly tough nuts! I hated the Tier system and I am not only one that is happy to see it go the way of the dinosaur. If you can’t handle it, then too bad for you.

I tell my buddies, who hate the dungeons right now, that we need to actually break down boss encounters and figure out ways to use our class abilities to cure conditions, give a certain boon, deflect projectiles, etc etc… Most people are either too lazy or just don’t find it possible but there is always a way if we would just look. The game has barely been out a month.

Temple of Balthazar, from the beginning to the end of the chain. The “meta event”.

Orbys.4895:

For one simple reason: Better/Structured Dungeons.

My friend said guild wars 2 is a pretty good game, and made a lot of improvements, but the one thing that WoW has that he loves is what he called Structured Dungeons. Particularly the boss fights. He said they are not just “large hp pools” that drag on for 30 minutes.

There is technique, and design that must be done to defeat bosses other then just whacking away. Using intractable things like cannons, vehicles, and trap switches.

Now I never played wow and dont intend to, but that does sound pretty neat to me. I wish my friend would come play Gw2 with me, but he refuses until they “polish” the game he says, and create good dungeons, not just zerg rushes.

Well there is a way to fight every boss, most people just aren’t looking deep enough into the mechanics of the game. There is so much more groups could do to coordinate but they don’t.

Well I think Chaos Storm works pretty well and there are 3 zones in Orr, so if you hit DR in all 3 zones without making tons of money, then I would agree there really isn’t a clear cut way of making money. In addition, 100% the map will get you tons of gold but I assumed you already did that.

Death Aggro.9602:

Malas.9425:

Death Aggro.9602:

Manifoldgodhead.2356:

Dungeons are like raids in other games. They are supposed to cost you money in exchange for better gear. Since the only better gear in this game is aesthetic many people don’t want to run them since they cannot get out of the mindset of bigger numbers = fun.

In short, if you believe that the only reward in a game is bigger and bigger numbers then this game is not for you.

I dont believe a single person said anything about wanting bigger numbers in this thread.

Then what exactly do you want? I do the dungeons for the skins and they are fun. I get a huge sense of accomplishment when I finish them, just like when I finish a brand new console game I bought. In the end it comes down to why are you gaming if you need a reward?

That made zero sense. You just said you game for a reward. Now your asking why i play if i want a reward? Last i saw. prior to buying this. Anet nvr said anything about deflated gold rates and anti farming for mats/money. They nvr told me i would be playing a game that has no reward. Players play for rewards. Some for beating challenging content. Others for making money. Some like grinding. EVERY SINGLE PERSON plays for a reward. Including you my friend. As you so stated.

/thread

You say that there isn’t a point to doing dungeons I am saying there is. It just must be a matter of difference of opinion. You obviously don’t like the dungeons so you don’t have to do them but at the same time you don’t have to tell other people they are wrong for liking them, maybe to them it is rewarding. Now this is my thread don’t try to act like you are some kind of boss closing it.

Personally I find Orr events more profitable then one could think. For the simple reason there are so many mobs and you loot so much you can make 50s in one event easily.

Cik.6479:

Read it. Was reading it supposed to magically make running a dungeon rewarding?

Maybe magically you would remember why you play videogames. In the end they are suppose to be fun and make you feel accomplished. Which Arah EM made me feel.

Death Aggro.9602:

Manifoldgodhead.2356:

Dungeons are like raids in other games. They are supposed to cost you money in exchange for better gear. Since the only better gear in this game is aesthetic many people don’t want to run them since they cannot get out of the mindset of bigger numbers = fun.

In short, if you believe that the only reward in a game is bigger and bigger numbers then this game is not for you.

I dont believe a single person said anything about wanting bigger numbers in this thread.

Then what exactly do you want? I do the dungeons for the skins and they are fun. I get a huge sense of accomplishment when I finish them, just like when I finish a brand new console game I bought. In the end it comes down to why are you gaming if you need a reward?

Manifoldgodhead.2356:

Dungeons are like raids in other games. They are supposed to cost you money in exchange for better gear. Since the only better gear in this game is aesthetic many people don’t want to run them since they cannot get out of the mindset of bigger numbers = fun.

In short, if you believe that the only reward in a game is bigger and bigger numbers then this game is not for you.

It was the same thing in GW1 PvE you did the hard endgame dungeons/zones for cool looking gear that showed prestige and skill. I hope we can get back to that actually mattering and not huge 100k numbers.

Cik.6479:

Not bored either, but not rewarding at teh same time. As many traverse through the learnings of the game and experience many of the little things, one big thing remains; those terrible dungeons in which THERE IS NO POINT and NO REWARDS.

We’ll see where it goes, but as a capitalist player at heart, that expects to be rewarded for engaging in greater challenge and cooperation, there should be a greater reward commensurate with it. That as opposed to being more socialist-minded where every player is handed-out the same measly reward regardless of effort.

There is a reddit link which you need to read and if you honestly still have the same opinion then you probably shouldn’t play this game anymore. The link is just a few short posts above. Have a good day.