Guild Wars 2

Oh. Okay, thanks. I forgot the pistol auto stacks bleeds too. Good point.

Jumper.9482:

Meyrink.6792:

Any experience trying this with D/P or S/P?

Just as good, worse, better?

In theory, doesn’t sound very good, no.

You’re just spamming #4 though, right? What’s the difference? The ranged auto basically?

Valin.4527:

@Meyrink – thanks for the input – that is great stuff. Gear wise since I’m on a T1 server should lean towards pvt/knights I’m guessing?

@Lanny – yeah I know, they are great at support it’s just the playstyle is kinda “meh” for me hence the search for something else. Thank you for your input as well.

Actually, my understanding is that you should always pick berzerkers on a thief, or maybe mix in some valkyrie pieces, but try to run as much berzerkers as you can and get used to dodging a lot or avoiding damage in the first place. Personally I use some PVT but that’s only because I already made a big investment of karma into a full PVT temple set without first doing some research on what I needed to be wearing, but now I’ve learned from these forums that it’s zerks or nothing pretty much.

Although, if you are doing a condition build to get the most out of your venoms, you might want to ride with carrion gear instead of zerks because venoms don’t crit, so having a high power, crit, or high precision doesn’t matter. But that’s just if you want to max out your venoms, and this is just theorycrafting from me because I’ve never played a condition thief build before. I much prefer roaming in small groups and ganking people with backstab.

There’s some other gear set I can’t recall the name of too which is like, condition, toughness, and healing I think. Maybe apothecary? I’m not sure, but that might also be useful for condition spam and getting the most out of leeching venoms because of the healing power bonus.

Any experience trying this with D/P or S/P?

Just as good, worse, better?

Incurafy.6329:

Just a quick note on your question about which utilities, the three you mentioned (Step, Refuge, and Sig of Shadows) are pretty much standard in WvW for most Thieves. I’ve been running them with BV and Hide/Withdraw for a LONG time and they’ve never let me down. With your build you could use Withdraw with Centaur runes and Vigorous Recovery for near perma-swiftness and replace SoS with Blinding Powder, or do the same but use different runes for less swiftness up time.

Thanks. Yeah, actually what I did was I swapped in Fleet Shadow for that 50% speed bonus while stealthed and I dropped signet of shadows, so with my build I am using refuge, shadowstep, and assassin’s signet. Although I realize most thieves run with the stealth heal, I’m actually using signet of malice instead here but only because of my specific build which is designed to milk signets really good, but let me explain that.

Every 12 seconds I can pop signet of malice for x5 stacks of might that last 10 seconds and I also get 2 initiative as well as a big heal. That means I’m getting 175 additional power with only a 2 second CD, on top of the x5 stacks of might I get for popping assassin’s signet. That’s 10 stacks of might, plus I have might on dodge which stacks even more. I can easily get around 14~15 stacks of might up before a fight, which is pretty hardcore when you crit on a backstab from hidden killer while assassin’s signet gives you the +15% damage buff on top of everything else.

When I need to go places I just use shadow refuge to stack stealth and away I go. The 50% speed bonus from Fleet Shadows is better for me than Signet of Shadows because with D/P you have stealth on demand. I can pretty much stay in stealth forever if I just swap my one shadow arts trait from shadows embrace to infusion of shadow so I regain initiative – plus I pop my signet of malice every 12 seconds for more initiative. Once I get close to a fight I just swap back in shadow’s embrace for the condition removal, but I have shadowstep as well so there’s also that.

One way you can play a thief that is really useful to the zerg is if you go down trickery at least 20 points and take thrill of the crime and bountiful theft. Both of those will stack tons of buffs on your allies, but leeching venoms with venomous auras is by far the best team-play thief build I have seen because your allies benefit from the leeching venoms, which means that they heal themselves when they apply the venoms that you share with them, so not only are you stacking a ton of conditions on the enemy, you are healing everyone as well.

I would go shortbow main + sword/dagger or pistol/dagger and 20 points into trickery for thrill of the crime and bountiful theft, and then after that it’s up to you how you want to play it. Probably 30 into shadow arts for venomous auras, leeching venoms, and master of deception, and then probably 20 points into deadly arts for mug and quick venoms. For utils I would do spider venom, ice drake venom, shadow refuge, and dagger storm.

You’ve made the right choice, OP.

D/P or S/P are probably the best choices for thieves right now.

And of course, shortbow. Always shortbow. Erry day I’m shortbowan.

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Meyrink.6792:

TY. I use assassin’s signet active all the time actually. It is the one I use the most. With D/P I usually stack stealth from smoke screen and then I pop the signet for the huge damage buff on my next 5 attacks. Backstab, and then HS spam while evading. I should get rid of the precision-to-vitality trait for one of the signet buffs then?

Also, I will look at valkyrie gear thanks. But generally speaking, thieves should always run full zerks gear right? It seems like the consensus everywhere I look that nothing else is acceptable but 100% zerks in every situation for thieves.

The general consensus is straight berzerker’s, aye. Valkyrie is simply something you can weave into a few pieces to trade a little precision for a little health, if you find that you need the extra damage buffer. Defensive stats are only useful if you get hit. Offensive stats a) are always useful and b) ensure things die faster and have less of a chance to hurt you. Since stuff in dungeons hit hard, you really don’t want to get hit, even if you’re durable. But, we don’t all start out as dodge gods, and a little extra health during the learning phase can alleviate some of the growing pains..

For Assassin’s Signet, there are some threads on here doing the math on what builds benefit from clicking it and when. But without breaking out the thinking cap, it’s obviously better for burst than sustained damage.

The Signet of Power trait does have good synergy with it. 5 stacks of might is +175 Power, which almost completely makes up for losing the 180 from Assassin’s Signet, giving your 5 burst attacks more for their money. That’ll last for about 12 seconds with your boon duration. Assassin’s Signet will be down for 45 seconds (36 seconds if traited with Signet Use), cutting it down to only 33 seconds (24 seconds traited) you’ll be without a Power buff.

I like having both signet traits, but Side Strikes is a really good trait too. It’ll be up to you to decide what feels best to you.

Wow, thanks a lot for the help again!

I +1’d your posts for what it’s worth. I really appreciate the advice.

Oh, just one more question.

What about Shadow Trap for stun breaker?

When you place it it lasts for 2 minutes and you can destroy it early. If you do you will shadowstep back to it and the range is 10,000 and it breaks stun. That seems very useful. It also breaks stun if someone triggers it and you use it normally.

Excalibur.9748:

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

I just wanna talk a bit about 4 signet build cuz I use that for PvE.

I think 4 signet build for PvE is okay, but situationally you may want to swap in shadow refuge or smokescreen or maybe shadow step as the situation demands.

I don’t think it’s okay for WvW. Shadow refuge is pretty much a must if you want to get out (used defensively can evade from zergs, offensively used can basically guarantee a stomp). You should also bring at least 1 stunbreaker.

What should I use for a stun breaker?

There are 3 choices. Roll for initiative , Shadow step, infiltrator’s signet.

Personally I like infiltrator’s signet but shadow step is popular as well. They’re both pretty popular it really depends on your taste.

What I like about infiltrator’s signet is it’s instant cast, can be reduced to 24s cooldown, synergizes really well with most builds because of the passive initiative regen. The con is it doesn’t remove 2 conditions like shadow step on return and if used for stun breaking you should maybe combo with a dodge immediately after use since it teleports you TO the target rather than away, also beware to use the stunbreak after you’re already on the ground when it’s a Knockdown otherwise i think it will fail to stunbreak.

Most sword builds will take infiltrator’s signet. Most dagger builds will take shadow step. (for obvious reasons)

I don’t understand the last part. Why is sword = infiltrator’s signet and daggers = shadowstep?

Sword has built in shadow return, dagger doesn’t.

Oh, okay.

I was wondering about condition removal actually. It seems like in WvW the only signets worth using are signet of malice and signet of shadows? Should I use shadowstep and shadow refuge for the other two utilities if I am using D/P?

Thanks for your help.

Excalibur.9748:

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

I just wanna talk a bit about 4 signet build cuz I use that for PvE.

I think 4 signet build for PvE is okay, but situationally you may want to swap in shadow refuge or smokescreen or maybe shadow step as the situation demands.

I don’t think it’s okay for WvW. Shadow refuge is pretty much a must if you want to get out (used defensively can evade from zergs, offensively used can basically guarantee a stomp). You should also bring at least 1 stunbreaker.

What should I use for a stun breaker?

There are 3 choices. Roll for initiative , Shadow step, infiltrator’s signet.

Personally I like infiltrator’s signet but shadow step is popular as well. They’re both pretty popular it really depends on your taste.

What I like about infiltrator’s signet is it’s instant cast, can be reduced to 24s cooldown, synergizes really well with most builds because of the passive initiative regen. The con is it doesn’t remove 2 conditions like shadow step on return and if used for stun breaking you should maybe combo with a dodge immediately after use since it teleports you TO the target rather than away, also beware to use the stunbreak after you’re already on the ground when it’s a Knockdown otherwise i think it will fail to stunbreak.

Most sword builds will take infiltrator’s signet. Most dagger builds will take shadow step. (for obvious reasons)

I don’t understand the last part. Why is sword = infiltrator’s signet and daggers = shadowstep? Also, would it make infiltrator’s signet worth it with D/P if I pick the trait Signet Use for the -20% CD and +2 initiative?

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Just my thoughts:

While PVT is the blanket “safe” gear for just about anyone, it’s not the first choice for a lot of thieves. Generally, Valkyrie (PVC) is the preferred training wheels gear for most direct damage thieves. Vitality winds up being a more useful defense than toughness, thanks to thief having such a low base health pool. There’s also the common belief (not sure how true it is) that lots of toughness will make you pull more agro. In harder hitting dungeons, a durable thief that’s getting hit is probably still a dead thief.

Signets are well and fine, though you’ll get the most out of them if you’re comfortable clicking them where appropriate, rather than just riding the passive train. The exception to this is possibly Assassin’s, though that’s a theorycrafting discussion all its own. With 30 in Critical Strikes, you’re also wide open to take Signets of Power and/or Signet Use, to make clicking them more worth your effort.

TY. I use assassin’s signet active all the time actually. It is the one I use the most. With D/P I usually stack stealth from smoke screen and then I pop the signet for the huge damage buff on my next 5 attacks. Backstab, and then HS spam while evading. I should get rid of the precision-to-vitality trait for one of the signet buffs then?

Also, I will look at valkyrie gear thanks. But generally speaking, thieves should always run full zerks gear right? It seems like the consensus everywhere I look that nothing else is acceptable but 100% zerks in every situation for thieves.

Excalibur.9748:

I just wanna talk a bit about 4 signet build cuz I use that for PvE.

I think 4 signet build for PvE is okay, but situationally you may want to swap in shadow refuge or smokescreen or maybe shadow step as the situation demands.

I don’t think it’s okay for WvW. Shadow refuge is pretty much a must if you want to get out (used defensively can evade from zergs, offensively used can basically guarantee a stomp). You should also bring at least 1 stunbreaker.

What should I use for a stun breaker?

Before I start, let me say I’ve already read all the guides posted in the stickys (big props to Lowell’s Guide) really excellent advice in those. I usually lurk and read posts, but I’d like some feedback on a few questions I have. I’m kind of a newbie so I’m open to any advice.

First, am I correct in assuming PVT gear is the best for me to use while I am still learning the ropes in PvE/PvP, and I should get into zerks gear once I feel confident? Right now I have almost a full temple set, all PVT except for two pieces which are PTC. I am really poor so I can’t afford runes of divinity yet and instead I am just using runes that give toughness and condition damage. All my accessories are zerks but they are just elite with exquisite rubys and not ascended yet.

Second, I am using D/P + Shortbow and my traits are 0/30/15/25/0.

Practiced tolerance/side strikes/hidden killer

infusion of shadow

power of inertia/fleet of foot

Third, I use signets for my utilities because I don’t have the best gear right now and it really helps bring up my stats. Malice, Assassins, Agility, and Shadows. I use Dagger Storm for my elite. Is it okay to run four sigs?

Is this setup okay for a newb? Anything I should do differently for now or anything I should focus on for the future?

I’m not a pro thief, but for what it’s worth, I use D/P + shortbow because it just seems so much better in almost every situation. The only time I switch to my shortbow is for zergs and PvE when I’m fighting a group of enemies.

I’m sure D/D is useful in some specific circumstances that people have already mentioned, but like, just in general I find myself always swapping out that off-hand dagger for a pistol because stealth-on-demand and a gorillion blinds is just so kitten good. It brings my survivability up a lot.

Not to mention there is this really cheezy gimmick build going around right now using runes of perplexity (it will probably get nerfed) which makes pistol #4 spam insanely good. Easily countered by pros, but most people aren’t pros, so it’s really good most of the time.

Really I could just list so many reasons why D/P is freaking amazing, but I’m lazy, and my vote doesn’t count for much anyway because I’m kind of a newbie really. IDK, I just feel so lackluster using D/D. Like others have said, #3 is barely useful, and #4 is only just “okay.” On the other hand, every single skill for D/P is top. I would say it is probably one of the best weapon combos in the game hands down. Maybe not THE best, but definitely in the top 5 imo.

Yeah, I might drop ambush and replace it with shadow refuge. Good point. I’m still kind of learning the ropes.

I really like shadow trap though. It’s beastly. Free shadowstep + 3 second stealth + 10 stacks of might and 5 seconds of fury. I’m definitely keeping that one.

I don’t see too many people running with traps. Not sure why.

I’m playing high crit D/P stealth: 0/30/30/10/0 with assassin’s signet, ambush, and shadow trap.

Thoughts? Anyone else playing something similar?

Oh.

Yeah I just noticed that.

Well, kitten.

/thread /build I guess. Would’ve been awesome though. I guess there’s no way to salvage it.

Needs moar Asura. :P

Xulna, Tarnished Coast

Just echoing what others have said, I usually use retreat and a staff in WvWvW.

Bane Signet was a good suggestion as well.

I run meditations myself so I feel your pain.

DeathPanel.8362:

Is this an elaborate troll post? I’m asking this seriously.

No.

Basically, I got bored of always running your standard builds like AH, so I decided to do something fun and crazy and it worked. Keyword here is “works” – it’s not the best, it’s just “okay.” I won’t say it’s better than your standard builds though, because it’s not. Full zerkers is definitely better. In fact, a lot of builds are better, but I made this for fun not to top charts.

I just really like being able to stack almost 25 bleeds on a foe… as a guardian. It’s funny. If you party with a venom share thief it’s even more silly.

I already wrote a long post explaining it here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Hybrid-Guardian-Burst-Sustained-DPS/first#post2643535

This is my Guardian Hybrid DPS build, which is excellent as both a burst and a sustained damage build, capitalizing on an enormous critical chance rate, as well as monstrous burns and bleeds.

PART 2

Exposition:

The base chance of a 5-second bleed from Sigil of Earth is 60%, and since your base critical chance with a sword is 100% from precision and traits, that means you will stack a bleed on your foe with at least every other blow. In addition to this, Virtue of Justice procs every 5 attacks, and your basic auto-attack with the sword hits five times in a row. This means that every single time you auto-attack, every blow will proc a critical hit, and so you will stack at least two bleeds and one burn on your foe. With Zealot’s Defense, you gain a 3-second block which has a 100% chance to proc another burn from Defender’s Flame (if you take it), as well as 4 bleeds from Sigil of Earth and another burn from Virtue of Justice because it hits 8×. I simply cannot stress enough how absolutely devastating this is to single-targets.

Your off-hand torch brings even more damage, capitalizing on all your condition damage and high critical chance rate to stack more bleeds and burns on foes. If you use Zealot’s Flame to set yourself on fire, this will proc Inner Fire and give yourself fury. This will cause your critical chance rate to well exceed 100% if it is at least 85% to begin with. If you use Cleansing Flame immediately following this, it hits 10x, and thus it will stack 5 bleeds and two burns on your foe by itself.

In order to bring some much needed AoE, long-ranged firepower, and excellent support to the table, I recommend Staff for an off-hand weapon, with either a Superior Sigil of Earth to go along with the main focus of the build, or a Superior Sigil of Corruption to stack up even more condition damage from kills. Staff will also be your go-to weapon of choice in WvWvW play, as it is hands-down one of the best weapons in the game for it. An effective strategy here is to mainly rely on your staff in large groups, and switch to your main-hand sword and torch in order to pick off single targets that get separated off and isolated.

You can also bring a Greatsword and a Scepter in your inventory and swap either of those for Staff whenever you need it. If you do this, I recommend you switch the Zeal trait Shattered Aegis for Zealous Blade, to improve your damage and add a bit of healing to your attacks with your greatsword – or Scepter Power if you use a scepter instead. If you bring a scepter, I recommend you put a Superior Sigil of Earth on it.

One added benefit of an auxiliary scepter is that it will gain the 15% critical chance bonus from Right-Hand Strength, making it a very viable ranged alternative to staff against single targets. This means that Smite (which hits 15x in an AoE) will proc 3 burns from Virtue of Justice and at least 7 bleeds from Sigil of Earth. This is an excellent opening attack before a fight. Simply cast smite, and then swap into your sword and use Flashing Blade or Judge’s Intervention to teleport to the target, apply a blind, and start bursting conditions.

Introduction:

The idea behind this build is to capitalize on the way the trait lines of the Guardian are laid out, which is similar to other classes (such as the necromancer, ranger, and warrior). The key to doing this effectively is going to depend upon a lot of synergy between the 30 point trait in Radiance giving you an additional +15% critical chance with a one-handed weapon, sword and torch to apply fast and powerful burns, as well as a Superior Sigil of Earth to stack lots of bleeds from your near 100% critical chance.

Traits:

You’ll start by investing 30 points into Zeal and Radiance and your remaining 10 points into Valor in order to maximize your condition damage as well as your chance to proc critical hits.

In Zeal, you want to take Fiery Wrath (10% improved damage versus burning foes), Shattered Aegis (burn foes when aegis is removed), and Kindled Zeal (add 10% of your power to condition damage).

In Radiance, you want to take Inner Fire (when you are set on fire, apply burning to foes), Radiant Fire (torch recharge speed, also improves burning), and Right-Hand Strength (add +15% to one-handed critical chance.)

In Valor, you can take whatever you want, but I prefer Defenders Flame (100% chance to burn foes while blocking) because it works well with the overall theme of the build (applying conditions and bursting).

Utility:

For your utility skills you can take whatever you need depending on the situation. Utility skills are not going to enhance or degrade the effectiveness of this build all that much. Some compliment it well, such as Judge’s Intervention or Signet of Wrath (because we will be doing a lot of condition damage), but these are largely a matter of preference and you should not feel as though you must adhere strictly to a specific set of utility skills for this build. For your healing skill, this will depend on whether or not you use the 10-point Valor trait Defender’s Flame. If you do, I recommend you use Shelter for the 2-seconds of block, as this guarantees a proc of burning on your foe every time you are hit while healing.

Gear:

For gear you will need to balance yourself because by taking both Zeal and Radiance you will not have a lot of survivability from traits. For this, I recommend to wear Knights gear, in order to greatly improve your toughness (which allows you to mitigate damage) as well as your precision and power (precision is important for improving critical chance, which is the primary focus of this build). With enough Knights gear, as well as the inherent durability of the Guardian profession itself coming from virtues and heavy armor, you should be able to improve your survivability enough to get by easily.

However, we also need to to bring Rampager’s gear to improve condition damage and precision as much as we can in order to capitalize on burning and on bleeds from Sigil of Earth. To do this you will have to figure out exactly how much precision you actually need on your gear. Because there is no point in exceeding 100% critical chance, and because your 30-point Radiance trait Right-Hand Strength improves sword critical chance by 15%, that means that you only need enough precision to have at least 85% critical chance. Anything more than this is not necessary. Therefore, it is up to you which items you will wear to improve condition damage and precision. Personally, I use trinkets for this, while my body armor is of the Knights variant.

Runes & Sigils:

For runes, I recommend you take Superior Runes of the Undead in order to further improve your condition damage and your damage mitigation from toughness. Both of these traits will help you stay in the fight long enough to burst lots of conditions.

Finally, as I mentioned at first, the key point of this build is to take Superior Sigil of Earth on your main-hand sword and torch, as your very high (100%) critical chance rate means you will proc the bleeding effect from Sigil of Earth.