Showing Posts For Miffinator.3046:
I still can’t understand you’re persistance and need to attack me personally because I disagree with you. Look this class is a fail all the way around. It’s essentially operating on a 15 skill condi combo if you’re running 2 kit set+rocket boots. The managing of these skills requires immense focus, and when compared to the relative ease of fighting that other classes have to do the Engineer falls short.
Also I’m not sure where you could assume that I didn’t understand the Bard from EQ. Bards had the fastest movement speed song. Pre Yeksha they could AoE kite better than anyone because they weren’t limited to 4 targets. Bards were given a set role in EQ which focused heavily around the group. But at the same time could perform certain functions that other classes could, but they were given one or two areas where they were the dominant I.E. Movement Speed.
I know many players first reaction to any type of criticism against something they like/enjoy/play as is to attack the person criticizing. However I’m objectively looking at this class. It lacks Condi removal, Engi is shoe-horned into Condi builds, and the Engi is sub-par in terms of effectiveness and ease of class. Again I think a rework is in order. But like always people will ignore that there’s a lack of Engis running around. They’ll just happily accept that Anet openly buffs Guardians, Warriors, Thieves, and Mesmers all the while giving Engis small buffs here and there.
This class needs more love. I will say this after the patch today I have seen more engis than I ever had. However I bet once the Tournament starts up those Engis will be put away for Guards, Warriors, Mesmers, Eles, and Thieves. Leaving the Necro, Engi, and Ranger to go to the wayside. Nothing really has changed here. But keep your head down and keep moving.
You must not be familiar with MMOs because versatility makes the engineer and ele great in this one. It made the Bards great in all the EQ series. Makes the Soulsong, Honor guard and other songcraft derivatives great in archage. (see what I did there. I stated my opinion as a definitive fact, same as you, only I reinforced with reasonably accurate information)
The only thing the profession is a bit lacking on is condition cleanses.
You picked a bad class from EQ to compare to my friend. Bards had the best Movement speed, Pre-Yeksha Best AOE kiting skills, and could wear certain platemail for higher AC boosts. The only downside was that they had to diversify stat allocation. Point being is if you have to compare the Bard to the Engi in terms of versatility the Bard had a huge significant advantage over the Engi. Verant made sure the Bard dominated in on-the-fly actions.
They tried to do that here with the Engi. I openly admitted they tried to give the Engi versatility. But instead of genuine combination versatility, meaning that we can do something in a way that no other class can do or repeat, they just gave us slapstick remodels of the other classes.
Case in point is that for all the versatility that the Engi brings, the other classes can perform the same feats in a much more powerful, and controlled manner that renders the Engineer class trivial. Again you work hard to get good at this class for what reward? What advantage does the Engi bring? Any advantages the Engi may have are performed better and easier within other classes.
Also side note: I’ve received PMs about this thread from players stating that they agree with me on this class. Guys I’m not arguing against you personally. I just think that this class needs a rework and honestly the Dev team should sit down and ask what Role does the Engineer bring to the game, or what style do they bring? As of right now the Engi plays like a MMO class that has 10+hotbars filled with skills that are purely meta speculation of what you might run into. I think it’s not very well thought through.
(edited by Miffinator.3046)
An engineer is only as good as the person playing it.
Solo open world pve, you’ll be fine.
The typical zerk 6/6/0/0/2 HT/bomb/grenade/whatever build will work throughout pretty much all of open world pve.
This is about as non-answer as you can get in almost any game. I’ll be blunt here the numbers don’t lie. There is a reason why people don’t play Engineer often. It’s a hard class to learn, and becoming good at it doesn’t yield the same reward as becoming good at Thief, Warrior, or Guardian.
Players will religiously defend this class and pat themselves on the back for being “better” than Warriors, or Guardians. Just look at the responses. But in the end the sad truth is there’s no thought behind this class outside “Lets give them a ton of skills”. At the end of the day Versatility doesn’t build a sound class in MMOs but sound class mechanics build a good class. That’s something this class lacks, and this class deserves a rework.
We should define good as what is required to be top-end in this game. Unfortunately Engineers aren’t on that list. This is a systemic problem the class has had since launch. Look even go back a year ago to a thread about worst class and Engis clock in near or at the bottom of the list.
Versatility doesn’t mean you have the upper-hand. I’d rather be really good at something and be really good than be mediocre at many things. That’s why this class is a fail. It doesn’t have a direction. It feels slapped together and just doesn’t flow.
One more thing. Popularity does not equate to how good a profession actually is. Believing that engineers are bad simply because they’re not popular is faulty reasoning. There are quite a few other factors that could also influence why this is not a popular profession. To most, engineers are simply unattractive (them hobosacks). Engineers play very differently than every other profession making them feel awkward. Engineers have no reasonable access to melee weapon (toolkit whacking… yeah, no.). And, this uninformed conception that engineers are “bad” or “suck” also deters people from playing them.
This is just untrue. This is a game—players often play the class that’s easiest to play for the greatest reward. Arguing that a silly back pack is the reason players don’t play as an engi is dumb. It really is. Players don’t play as engis because the simple truth is you have to work hard at an engi just to be as good as decent Guard, Warrior, or Thief.
Look want to know what the Engis have to deal with in order to play (granted I only do WvW so I really can only speak from that):
Everyone has 5 basic wep skills, a heal, 3 utility, and a elite. Engis in WvW usually have to use kits in order to compete and be able to use Cond damage. So from the current meta you have to either use Nades or Bombs. They give you 5 skills.
So Engis have to use a minimum of 10 wep skills while sacrificing a utility spot. In any build. Not to mention with each utility spot you get a tool belt and you get 4 of those (Including the heal spot). Arguably engis on any given day have about 27 different skills. Which sounds nice. But it isn’t. The kits are a joke. They’re flimsy and they really do force Engis to really think about what they can do.
You’d think with the massive amounts of skills this class gets we’d be pretty decent well played class. But we’re not. Lets not forget this is an MMO. Players are limited to what the purpose of the game allows. Imagine this Engis can fit any role. I agree with that statement. However they can fit all roles but when compared to other classes who are limited to say performing 1-3 roles exceptionally well the Engineer falls out because ultimately you’re going to want to do a set function really well.
Why roll an Engi for roaming when Thieves are unquestioned in that role? Why roll an engi when for Zergs guardians and warriors perform much better? Why roll an engi when a d/d ele is essentially the same thing just with bigger numbers and more survivability.
This class is a joke. That’s my opinion. The question was are they any good? I am saying no. The Engi community has maybe 4-5 player vids we can cite to follow. Compare that to the dozens for every other class. And numbers do matter in MMOs because players always go the path of least resistance to the top. Engis don’t come anywhere near the top (at least in WvW). If you’re looking for a good solid class I’d recommend Guardian, Thief, or Warrior. They’re forgiving, solid, and much more desirable than engineers are.
No. This class is pretty hard to learn how-to-play. Like hard to the point it can drive players away from the game hard. The class is very twitchy, you really don’t excel at anything, and most other classes do things better than you can.
Engi is a situational character. He’s not really suited to be the best in anything. The skills are bunk. As you’ll be forced to either use bombs or nades. Most good players will either dodge your grenades or out-range your bombs. This class really isn’t worth playing.
I started as a Engi from launch. Most on this forum will say we’re really good. Let me tell you something. How come if this class is so good, how come you never see many Engis running around? The answer is quite simple. If you’re good at this class, chances are you can be better at another. Engis make you work hard for minimal reward whereas other classes are far more forgiving, and sought after.
If you plan on doing WvW you’ll be running a Condi build. Good luck purging condis on yourself. They claim you get perma swiftness, but it doesn’t stack. Have to let the buff run out then reapply. They say you’re good at roaming. Again if that’s the case why are there more Thieves running around than you. Also there’s more Rangers than Engis.
Look this class is not easy. In my opinion it’s the hardest class in the game to play. It doesn’t offer any type of special rewarding ability nor do you have a special place to fill in PvE, or WvW. I think this class sucks.
Every class isn’t for everybody. I know I’ve tried certain classes multiple times that I just can’t get into.
I agree. I just deleted my engi. Lvl 80 Charr. Going to level my Warrior now.
Just did a flamethrower build died even faster. I’m just not going to play this class. I think it stinks. That’s my opinion. I’m not going to tout it as fact, but when asked I will say this class sucks =/
I have to say I’ve been playing an engi since launch and I absolutely hate this class. Literally it’s like playing an orchestra on my keyboard having to juggle a minimum of 3 kits. It’s absolutely frustrating and just not fun. I took a break from this game for a bit. Almost a whole year—however I came back hoping that my lvl 80 engi got a rework. Making the class easier to play. NOPE.
I just don’t understand the purpose of this class. We’re kind-of-tanky. We’ve also have to jump between 4 toolbelt abilities, 1 reg wep set, 2 full kit sets, and an escape. I should point out I mainly do WvW. It’s mind-boggling when I play my Warrior how the comparison is—it’s outrageous. The class is just too hard to play. Honestly if this was a viable class there’d be more engis running around. There aren’t, and there’s a reason for that. The reason is L2P just so you can be almost pretty good
I think that in order to make this class work better some minor things can be done to enhance play specifically for WvW. I think honestly there should be some need for Flamethrower in WvW. Almost all builds are built around conditions, and they rotate between Nade/Bomb—Bomb/Engi/Boots. Flamethrower seems so great for WvW because of the Jugg trait, but it’s useless. I’d say add a bigger toughness bonus, or replace the flame wall for a jump.
I just think that accepting the status-quo on this class will only harm it further. I pray for a rework, and hopefully the normalization of this class. Until then I’ll be playing a Warrior/Thief in WvW because they excel in both Zerg and Roaming and are much more forgiving and effective at what they are designed to do.
The fan boys will say it’s area denial. Not really. Truth be told I’m thinking of giving up on this class and going thief or guardian.
I’m telling you. I have a lvl 80 Eng and truth is running with a thief is 1000x easier and more rewarding. Engi class feels like it was just added in to have an even number of classes.
Most players who claim to love the engineer will play an engi to 80, play for 2 months, then go back to another mainstream class. Engineer is not a good class to roll. At lvl 80 you’ll see why and ask yourself how often do you see engineers compared to thieves. The answer isn’t because it’s harder for them to get to 80. It’s because at 80 they suck.
Go thief. Engineer sucks.
First allow me to clear the air, I’m not here to shout for nerfs, buffs, or any Dev work; what I am here to do is ask the simple question of “What is the Engineer’s role in the game.” I’ve been an Engineer from launch. I love the Engineer. I love the class so much I don’t have another level 80 anything. I love being my big white charr engineer. However I have noticed that in the time that I’ve played, and the builds I’ve explored the Engineer seems to always end up leaving me saying “So…what was the point of that ability.”. I’ll begin with turrets, then jump to WvW Nade build.
Turrets are without a doubt the highlight staple of our class. Turrets were a selling point in the promo video. Turrets are what an engineer uses. Yet what is the point of turrets outside of leveling? I’m a bit confused here. Turrets don’t really have a purpose at 80 (at least the dmg ones). The rocket Turret seems to be the most useful one considering it’s the only one with real damage. Not sure here but did they correct the ground targeting for turrets? If not it seems silly using them in a build at 80. Actually I’d be willing to wager that you’re special build usually doesn’t last longer than a month after you get frustrated with the lack of utility a turret brings. Lets consider the list of turrets we get
- Thumper (Not exactly sure what we do with this at 80. Can’t really Farm with it, PvE Dungeons with it, LOL at WvW with it) Yay we get a 40-60 cd knockdown.
- Flame (This turret is awesome…in the Supply Crate)
- Net (Now it’s not that bad actually. Quick CD, immobilize, but not exactly that great if someone can break stun which 70% of the lvl 80 populace uses)
- Rocket (Best turret, good range, good DPS, just a good turret)
- Healing(Overcharge is the best. Another good turret.)
- Rifle(Uhh fire faster?)
Overall the turrets just seem like a joke. I rarely see them.
The WvW Grenade build is arguably the most favored build for many engineers. However there are some major downsides to the grenade build. Yes it’s good DPS. Yes it’s condition dmg is really good. Yes paired with a rifle you have tons of CC and plenty of Utility. It seems like this is great. Yet, what is the downside? Skillshot. Some players will argue that it’s better this way. Imagine this I have 2 beers in 2 different refrigerators both beers are the same, however the refrigerators are on two different floors and one is behind a locked door (which you have the key to). The only benefit to the upstairs refrigerator is that’s a major brand name refrigerator comparable to all major brands. The downstairs one is a USSR model, still keeps your beer cold though. Getting tired? Well the point was to show that you have to put in a little extra effort to be comparable to other things. The point is Why. Why is that other people can simply click on someone and push buttons and we have to predict where they’re moving aim fire and push buttons all while on the run. It just seems so tedious and annoying.
Overall I’d say I’m confused on this class. When we find something that gives us some structure we lose it. This class when compared to the others is the class that requires the most effort to play well while offering an average reward. It’d be like working 45-50 hrs a week only to walk away with 300 dollars a week compared to a normal job of 40 hrs a week making double that. What’s the point? I’m convinced we’re all suckers for pain and punishment with this class.
**EDIT: Just wanted to add in here. The best question to ask is Why is it that you don’t see many engineers. That’s a great place to start. If you think that being the least played class is cool and we’re least played for a good reason that’s silly.
The logic of MMO gamers can be boiled down to a very “hands off” approach. Despite many bugs within the class, the under-powered turret design, and the “okay” kit builds players will swear this class is fine. My main point would be to examine how many people play the class. The game has been out for a while now and populations are a bit more trained. Within the community the answer is clear; I’m willing to bet that if a census were taken now we’d now be looking the least played class and with good reasons.
The engineer is a broken class. I’ve had a engineer since day 1 and he’s been 80 for a long time. I mostly play WvW, and I can honestly say that our class isn’t that great. We’re more of a assist machine, excellent at beating a dead horse, and horrible at being a point man. We can do a lot of things, and have a lot of combinations which allow us to do a lot of things. However we don’t really excel at anything. The issue becomes you are a jack of all trades and a master of none. In essence you as a engineer can be perform 4-5 abilities but really don’t master or dominate one.
I’ve found that in MMOs if a jack of all trade class doesn’t have one aspect to set them apart from the rest they will suck. In EQ the bard was the best AoE kiter because of speed and rapidity of song twisting. In WoW the druid was a solid healer for a long time because of the speed and HoTs. In GW2 the engineer really doesn’t have a kit/turret/gadget that makes them worth playing. The combination of being able to do so many things doesn’t even meld well. It seems we’re lacking on all fronts.
Recently I took a small break from GW2, before I left I started to notice this at high-end WvW. The engineer players retired their characters and swapped them for Thieves, Guardians, Eles, and Warriors; they’re arguably the 4 best WvW classes. The engineer at high end doesn’t offer anything useful to a group in WvW outside of our Elixer Revive toss (and even that is debatable on effectiveness). Can a turret bunker build help hold a point? Not really because any AoE will eliminate our turrets and because they’re slot abilities you’re looking at a 20-60 CD where you have lost 2 slots and have 1 left (which is usually for me an escape slot). When I cam back I came across a D/D Ele and my god did I get melted. Now I’m not blaming our class mechanics solely for this. However I do have to wonder why our class doesn’t have more players playing it.
I truly believe that our class suffers because we don’t have a good synergy within our class. Our kits are often spread out through different traits. Want a bomb kit to heal players 30 in turrets/ 20 in explode/ and now only 10 left to spend on whatever. Which is only for one path. Ultimately our class needs a total rework. Or it needs to be eliminated all together. I personally think that in any future content add-ons I’d like to see the Engi fill the role of a Siege-Wep master. But that’s my fantasy.