Guild Wars 2

Replace “more difficult to survive” with “made out of yoghurt and paper” and then this build won’t surprise people when you are pounded into the ground by a trash mob.

Not that it matters, you said this was a full DPS build, and that’s exactly what it is. But it’s like fitting too big an engine to a car – sure, it’s a lot of power, but if it’s too much then the wheels will just spin and smoke and you won’t go anywhere.

Power is useless if you can’t put it down, and I very much doubt you’ll be able to put this power down, because you’ll be too dead.

I highly doubt ArenaNet bases their class balancine on lower-level hot join play.

But saying that, Thieves are really hard to keep track of at the best of times. I personally don’t feel TOO overpowered on my Thief. High damage output and mobility, sure, but it wouldn’t be a Thief if it didn’t have that.

But obviously, in hotjoin play, Thieves (and by the same logic, Mesmers) can be complete pubstompers if you know what you’re doing, and playing against people that don’t. It’s pretty much free damage for both if you can keep moving and keep hidden.

Oh yeah, and the Thief nerf was really needed. Seriously.

My set-up in sPvP is D/D and P/P. Generally I pew-pew at someone until I decide I’m in range (or they got in range of me) for the super crit Cloak and Dagger/Backstab/Heartseeker combo, or I use them to help in fights where my help is needed but me going in face-first is just going to get me killed.

Yeah, I suppose the short-bow does that as well, and probably better, I’ve yet to try it. But Unload just feels nice to do and Head Shot can stop an execution in its tracks, I’ve saved many a teammate that way

So, some people think dungeons are too difficult, others think they’re fine, yadda yadda yadda. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion and so forth, but the obvious reason for all the tooth-and-nail arguing is that “hardcore” players don’t want the challenging dungeons changed to suit the “casuals”.

Let’s get one thing straight here: The dungeons aren’t hard, you’re probably just doing it wrong. But that’s OK, since this is a brand-new game with brand-new systems, and I imagine a lot of people need to unlearn some old MMO habits that don’t apply to GW2. If you learn the mechanics of GW2 well, you’ll fine dungeons quite reasonable, yes, maybe even challenging, but at a good balance of difficulty.

The problem is AC is a bit of a tall order for what is essentially the “entry-level” dungeon, especially if you’re going in at level 30 and still have a lot to learn about the game. So, to solve this, for lack of a better word, “ignorance” problem, I have a suggestion that will allow the “casuals” to learn more about the mechanics, while leaving the difficulty of the dungeons unchanged for the “hardcores”.

The suggestion is this: a new entry-level dungeon that could serve as a tutorial. A proper explanation of how you should carry yourself in a dungeon, and how to work as a team, so newer players can learn the finer points of team and combo play. You could even work this into the story. You and four others have been called up to some barracks to train under some army when OH NOES centaur attack! First half can be messing around in the barracks with some instructors, second half can be using the new skills you’ve learned to fight off dungeon-like enemies.

If we had something like this, then “casuals” wouldn’t hit a brick wall at their probably first dungeon experience in AC, instead having a tutorial dungeon they could practice in, and “hardcores” would be able to enjoy the unchanged difficulty of the current dungeons, with the option of completely ignoring this tutorial. Everybody wins.

This isn’t me calling out to ANet to make this tutorial, I’m sure they’re still busy doing post-launch stuff right now, but I just thought I’d throw this out there on these here forums to see if you guys think it would be a decent idea.

evu.9081:

Why can’t some games just be difficult? Tetris is. So is Super Meat Boy. Just because every other mmo spoon feeds you with “Epics” after successfully bashing 123 for 10mins doesn’t mean Arenanet has to follow suit.

This is what they make it, it’s you that has to beat their game. No one whined to Nintendo that Super Mario was too difficult.

Super Meat Boy is stupid-wtf-nochance hard. It’s still one of the best games I’ve played.

The difference between GW2 and the games you mentioned is that the dungeons in GW2 don’t start off relatively easy. Mario was easy in world 1-1, as was Super Meat Boy, and Tetris at level 1 is easy as pie. The first dungeon in GW2 is super duper punishing, especially if you’re at its so-called recommended level.

Like I said in a bunch of other threads, there’s an easy way to keep the difficulty up for those who like it and help less skilled players flourish – tutorial dungeon. A simpler and easier dungeon than AC built to teach players the finer points of combo and team play. You could even tie it into the lore, you and a bunch of new recruits are training in some barracks when OMG CENTAUR ATTACK QUICK USE WHAT YOU’VE LEARNED.

The problem is less about the difficulty and more about the lack of education the game provides about just how different your playstyle needs to be in dungeons. A proper tutorial would sort things out for noobies, and people who would rather learn by doing can skip it and just jump straight into AC. Everybody’s happy.

REFUSE to learn? It’d be nice if there were anything in game other than death after death after death after death that could teach us.

Disclaimer: I love this game, this is my only (minor) gripe with it so far. Good, now we can debate properly

Well fair enough then Thanks in advance, code monkeys.

Just a quick, friendly request to ANet if they’re skittering around here

Love the addition of being able to craft straight from your collection, that saves time and takes a lot of the monotony out of it, but will we ever be able to do Discovery with itmes straight from our collection? I’m a cook, and I have about 100+ different ingredients knocking around my collection, continually moving them from the collection to the inventory is a bit of a pain.

This is really nit-picky, I know, but what with the emphasis on finding your own recipes rather than buying them, it might make for an easier system.

EDIT: It strikes me that Q+A mode might not’ve been the best choice for this, but ah well.

Damocles.5430:

MiloSaysRelax.1597:

I would like nothing more than to “Learn To Play”. But it would help me, and EVERYONE who is having troubles, if the game made more of an effort to teach us how to play properly. The only tip given by the game covering ANYTHING that we should apparently know for these dungeons to work for us is “Combos are things that happen when you do a finisher through a field”, and that’s it.

No mention of “maybe you should be level 60 or so before trying this”. No mention of “it is advised that you adjust your spec in favour of survival before entering”. No mention of anything like that. Maybe we do need to learn to play, but don’t yell at us for going into a dungeon, getting owned, and complaining about the difficulty. You can yell “It’s a different set of rules in dungeons” all thekittenday, and that’s fine, but do remember that NOTHING IN-GAME TOLD US THESE BLOODY NEW RULES.

Like I said before, a tutorial dungeon before AC which teaches newbies the finer points of team and combo play would be the best way to solve this. That way first time dungeoneers have at least a CHANCE to survive past the first lot of trash in AC.

What mmo tells you how to play it? Sure, tooltips in this game need to be way more clear, but no game walks you through anything holding your hand. No good game anyways. Its common sense to want to be survivable. Give this game a month or two, and guides will start popping up like they do for every other game. Then you can have your hand held.

I’m not saying I want it to hold my hand, I just wanted a bit of warning about some things that are different in this MMO than, say, other MMOs. I play DPS in game like WoW and there, survivability is NOT the main thing you want, you obviously want damage, and that’s how I built my Thief right here in GW2. Top two trees for Precision and Power, full glass cannon build go.

I realise now that this is the wrong approach, but I would rather have learned that through a quick tutorial than getting facerolled in AC.

Like I said before, this system is new to a vast majority of the populace, so ANet should’ve put a bit more effort into giving us a bit more guidance, ESPECIALLY when lots of people (including myself) have a lot of older MMO knowledge on muscle memory that needs to be unlearned. My point was never that the dungeons were too hard, my point is that there are other options that ANet has to just give us a bit of extra knowledge other than letting a lot of us learn by getting ourkitten kicked.

Tutorials are a big part of a lot of video games these days, and I don’t see why MMOs think that they can skip them just because “Oh, the community will write guides so it’s all cool”. That’s not good game design.

And just to repeat and/or clarify: I don’t think the dungeons are too hard, I think that there is just a bit of ignorance about how they should be done, and it would do nothing but help the community if more tutorial like things were put in for newcomers, and since it wouldn’t affect the difficulty of the existing dungeons, I can’t see why the pro-dungeoneers would have a problem.

Or, in a sentence: yes, we suck. But the game didn’t try very hard in educating us how to not suck.

I would like nothing more than to “Learn To Play”. But it would help me, and EVERYONE who is having troubles, if the game made more of an effort to teach us how to play properly. The only tip given by the game covering ANYTHING that we should apparently know for these dungeons to work for us is “Combos are things that happen when you do a finisher through a field”, and that’s it.

No mention of “maybe you should be level 60 or so before trying this”. No mention of “it is advised that you adjust your spec in favour of survival before entering”. No mention of anything like that. Maybe we do need to learn to play, but don’t yell at us for going into a dungeon, getting owned, and complaining about the difficulty. You can yell “It’s a different set of rules in dungeons” all thekittenday, and that’s fine, but do remember that NOTHING IN-GAME TOLD US THESE BLOODY NEW RULES.

Like I said before, a tutorial dungeon before AC which teaches newbies the finer points of team and combo play would be the best way to solve this. That way first time dungeoneers have at least a CHANCE to survive past the first lot of trash in AC.

So, after completing my first run-through of AC, I can kind of see what the fuss is all about. It was a bit of a slog the entire way through, and I personally didn’t get much reward in the way of gear (I was level 45 at the time so maybe that’s why).

I can see why everyone is knee-jerk reacting to it. It is a bit of a bit of a difficulty wall. My thoughts are that the difficultly shouldn’t be lowered, but steps should be taken to ease the transition from the random happy-slapping of normal play and the tactical synergy needed in dungeons.

Perhaps a more thorough explanation of some of the games finer mechanics should be given whilst in-game. ANet were peddling the fact that this game is different from the normal MMO from Day 1, the responsibility that comes with that is that they should make more of an effort within the game to educate players about systems they may never have seen before. Using combos as an example, the only thing the tips say about it is “do a finisher through a field to do a combo”, but doesn’t give any information on what fields and finishers give what effects. Something as simple as a table on the Hero page that fills up as and when you discover different combos would do this well, it means you have a reference in game to plan things with your team.

Long story short: it’s not the difficulty that’s the problem, it’s the difficulty CURVE. More needs to be done in-game to educate people about it’s finer mechanics.

My idea would be this: have a new first dungeon before AC, and have it entirely as a tutorial about fighting in a group. Have NPCs tell and demonstrate, etc. etc. That way, people new to the game can actually have some knowledge rather than go into AC with none and get rolled to high heaven.