Guild Wars 2

thanks for the update. c: at least i know i’m not going to lose the eight levels i got on my mesmer last night. too bad for other people losing progress though. but, at least it’s only 2 hours. that should be easy to get back.

I’m kind of amazed at how many people are actually surprised that they didn’t take any of the player feedback into account. I mean, when have they ever? Does anyone remember town clothes, back when they wardrobe changes were a thing? They assured us over and over that they were listening to us, and then when the wardrobe was actually released, nothing had changed from it’s original proposed model. Or the New Player Experience and all the changes there. The same thing happens here. When a company like Arenanet asks for feedback, they have already made their decisions. They know what they are going to do, what has been programmed, and what is being released. The only reason they ask for feedback is to give us as players some small illusion of control over what happens to this game. They don’t actually care, and no amount of kittening and moaning on part of the player base is going to change anything.

I have a lot of characters in mix and match town clothes, but this is the one I’m going to miss the most. My sylvari engineer, Vanda Smokebomb. It should be a crime to take a way such a cutie’s booty shorts. Dem curves and dat butt… they need to be properly cradled in small leather shorts forever.

Nike.2631:

Mochi.7083:

…or it was stated/could be surmised from information provided earlier in the thread. :/

Alright, I see how you’re getting there…

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Outfits give us a way to create highly stylized looks that aren’t constrained to armor slots or weight class. In addition to armor skins that are easier and cheaper to collect across characters and the account dye system we do believe the options across a players whole account are much more attractive now.

Which pretty much has us all rolling our eyes at how little we give a flying skritt’s butt about “highly stylized” with NO flexibility or individuality…

Curtis Johnson.8456:

You’ll see more outfits coming out this summer and additions to the game more often usable by your characters. We try not to allow too much ‘hoarder’ design where we just keep stacking more and more options on leaving lots of unsupported things hanging around. Yes, we do have to give up some of our current closet space and clothing to fit the new wardrobe in. Again, apologies for that.

As always we ask you to try out the new system of customization and see what’s available to you. I think many people will be surprised by how many pieces have become armor compatible. We hope the benefits to the outfit system and wardrobe in terms of future support and additions will be clear, and you can look forward to more new outfits coming very soon.

You interpret that as all the new outfits will be single-piece hard-locked looks. I’m looking at “I think many people will be surprised by how many pieces have become armor compatible.” and thinking ‘they cannot possibly be so stupid as to do any of the new stuff as hard-locked single-piece outfits when there is so much seething hate that such lackluster, boring, and lazy items exist at all…’

My TARDIS is currently in the shop for repairs. Sorry I can’t give you a definite answer on which way they’ll jump .

Clearly you have more faith in ArenaNet than I do.

Nike.2631:

Mochi.7083:

Narthexia.1836:

Are they going to be bringing out new individual pieces or will they all be costumes?

They will all be costumes. Every item that would have been considered ‘town clothes’ that they release after this patch will be a one-piece, all-or-nothing costume that overrides all of your gear. You won’t be able to wear mixed pieces because there will be only one slot for the whole outfit. The only thing you will be able to change is the colours and whether or not to show the hat that came with the outfit.

Either your crystal ball is amazing, you’re a corporate spy, you’ve recently stolen a TARDIS, or you’re talking out your butt about a future you have no actual knowledge of.

I’m going with D.

…or it was stated/could be surmised from information provided earlier in the thread. :/

Narthexia.1836:

Are they going to be bringing out new individual pieces or will they all be costumes?

They will all be costumes. Every item that would have been considered ‘town clothes’ that they release after this patch will be a one-piece, all-or-nothing costume that overrides all of your gear. You won’t be able to wear mixed pieces because there will be only one slot for the whole outfit. The only thing you will be able to change is the colours and whether or not to show the hat that came with the outfit.

I’ve been thinking more and more and I’m… pretty much on board with everyone else who is saying they won’t be buying from the gem store again. I know I will be far less inclined to buy anything changeable, like skins. There are some purchases one can’t get around when you play as many characters as I do (such as transmutation stones), but… if this is setting precedent in terms of how changes and complaints of this nature are handled (secrecy, hand-waving, unclear, infuriatingly vague, and self-contradictory responses) I will be hesitant, if not unwilling, to buy anything that this new ‘wardrobe’ system brings about. I have spent the last of the gems on my account, and I am doubtful I will be buying any more in the near future.

Ezekiel.1985:

Mochi.7083:

The sad thing? That scenario Twyll just put together is basically exactly what’s happening here. It might seem ridiculous, but if you switch a few words around, you get the same tripe they’ve been feeding us for the last two days.

They’re feeding it to you with tape

Tripe taped to more tripe wrapped in more tape and some shiny paper that hopes to detract from the fact that what they’re really giving us is, in fact, just a cow stomach. That is to say… tripe.

The sad thing? That scenario Twyll just put together is basically exactly what’s happening here. It might seem ridiculous, but if you switch a few words around, you get the same tripe they’ve been feeding us for the last two days.

BeardRex.6739:

If you truly believe there is an issue with weight classes and town clothes, then you shouldn’t be allowing costumes in combat, unless you plan on adding a light, medium, and heavy version of each costume.

Thank you for pointing out another thing that doesn’t make any sense at all.

Alfador.7649:

Town clothes always existed as a way to step outside of the armor weight system, and now it’s going away because it…. steps outside the armor weight system? What?

Exactly. This is what I’m struggling so hard to understand. From what I can tell, town clothes do their job. I’d even go so far as to say that they add an element of realism to the game.

ASaturnus.4980:

Twyll, your dismissal of Curtis’ whole reasoning was really funny to read and spot on.

Curtis, thanks for answering in this thread. It is good to know that the devs read our concerns. But honestly your explanation seems to demostrate that you – and I mean ArenaNet with that – are confused about why you had town clothes in the first place and what you wanted to achieve with them.
You say town clothes don’t help people to form the light, medium or heavy look. Yeah, of course, because that’s the purpose of town clothes. They ought to help form people’s town clothes look.
The main reason I bought town clothes was so that my warrior could wear something else than heavy armor while visiting a city or so that my necro could wear trousers.

Look, other games which have much, much, much better costume systems than GW2, allow players to wear alternative armor or costumes for visual effect only, therefore increasing the incentive to get a variety of skins. The only thing GW2, a game that supposedly centers on skins, had as a comparable feature was town clothes. And now you’re scrapping that feature for confused reasons, while other games expand and improve such features to the enjoyment of their players.
This is just… not reasonable.

Bolding that point for emphasis. I think that’s pretty much what a lot of people are trying to say, here.

Sir Lysander.9842:

Thank you for your response. Given in mind everything you have stated, I am interested in exactly what the justification was in creating and releasing for sale mix-and-match Halloween and Wintersday town clothes when the loss of functionality of those as separate, mix-and-match pieces was in jeopardy, as the changes to the town clothes system in the upcoming release and loss of town close was undoubtedly in the planning stages when those items were offered for sale?

You raise a good question, sir. They say this system has been in the planning stages since the wallet dropped last year. If I recall correctly, the wallet dropped in the spring. BEFORE the new town clothes were made available. Honestly, I was hoping for some sort of compromise or something, but I’m back to wanting to pull my hair out over trying to understand why, in wanting to offer more customization options for our characters, you would take away the chief avenue of customization we as character creators had to begin with. Believe it or not, a troupe of characters all wearing the same outfit but dyed different colours is still a troupe of characters all wearing the same one-piece, all-or-nothing, cookie cutter outfit. Just because it’s in a different colour does not mean that it is unique. Also, by making it so that costumes such as the cooks outfit, the pirate outfit, and the halloween costumes are available as armor skin, you adding less variety, especially since they will be made available for each armor class. This is ridiculous. You seem to be convinced that you are moving foreward, but all I can see is regression.

1) Make us feel invested. A lot of the Scarlet story was pretty easy to ignore. The only things, in the end, that felt like they were “real” were the aftermath of the Tower of Nightmares and it’s still-lingering affects on those living in Kessex Hills, and the attack on Lion’s Arch. It would be good to pay more attention to what the payers are invested in. We saw more camaraderie in Lion’s Arch than we had seen in a lot of the Living Story up to that point, because to may of us Lion’s Arch was a sort of “home” for our game play, more so than a lot of the other cities tend to be (with the exception of Dwayna High Road in Divinity’s Reach).

2) More cause and effect and topical discussion would be nice as well. It’s nice to see that what the ‘big bad’ does has a lasting effect on the world as a whole. For example, the changing of some of the Renown Hearts in Kessex Hills to reflect the impact of the Tower (such as the fishermen in Triskell Quay). NPC chatter about the events transpiring in the world beyond the Heralds who get posted outside the gates would also be nice. It’s kind of hard to believe that no one in the cities or surrounding maps is really talking about the hundred-storey tower of death that magically appeared in the next province over, or that Lion’s Arch has been almost completely wiped off the map.

3) More well-constructed ‘bad guys’. With Scarlet it felt as though a lot of her ‘tragic past’ and other elements of her character were thrown in for the heck of it. Though her motivation and her endgame were eventually made clear, she was a Mary Sue 90% of the time. A Mary Sue being a term referring to a character that is given accolades that aren’t really necessary, who exists simply to exist. An example of a (really, really terrible) Mary Sue would be “this is my character, she’s tall and skinny and pretty and all the boys love her, and she’s really smart, and also she’s a princess”. Scarlet can be summed up in this fashion quite easily. The bad elements of her outweigh the solid ones, which is poor character design all around.

Palador.2170:

ChibiSeiai.3940:

So hold the kitten on, here. These multiple outfits I bought to mix and match with… I won’t be able to mix and match with.

If they are non-head item town clothes, then that’s true. I’m not sure about the head items that came with full set costumes, like the pirate hat, but the rest of it will no longer be mix and match.

Head items (apparently, from what we know) and normal armors are still mix and match, with the head items becoming skins that can be put on any helm, much like Scarlet’s helm can.

Town clothes that become outfits become all or nothing. You can’t wear your pirate hat with your wintersday clothes, but you can hide your ugly wintersday pancake hat.

Devildoc.6721:

Will Arenanet be offering Refunds for costumes for those of us who do not want to wear a costume as an entire set?

Only on clothing items that have been turned into tonics.

Serezenith.3501:

But we didn’t mind the fact that town clothing couldn’t be used in combat!

It’s no secret that you’re addressing mostly roleplayers in this thread. Town clothing is, as the name implies, used primarily in towns and defended settlements, and that is where most of the people who use it spend their time. They might wear their combat armour when they want to travel, or they could even hire guards to accompany them keep the beasts of the wild away.

I, for one, adore the fact that skins are now account-wide, reusable, and generally much easier to access, not to mention all the improvements made to the dye system.

But I don’t know if this is a trade-off I would have consented to if given the option.

The extra time to obtain additional skins, the inventory space required to house them, and the cost to buy dyes for every character would have been negligible to me at the side of roleplay customisation options, as that’s primarily what I play for.

Everything I work for on the PvP and PvE side of things contributes to things I want for my alts when I’m roleplaying, so you can probably understand why I and so many others feel slightly shunted by this.

This. This is exactly what I and at least 90% of the other people in this thread are trying to say. Roleplayers might be a small portion of your population but I can guarantee we’re a huge part of your profit margin. The only people who bought the hoodies, boots, pants, whatever that were in the gem shop are people who USE THEM FOR THIS PURPOSE. Not every toon’s characterization is befitting of a high-collared shirt and waistcoat. And let’s not forget that all the town clothes in the game except for the norn and human ones (and only human ones on rare occasions) are really godkitten ugly.

nGumball.1283:

Wubdor.5190:

nGumball.1283:

Wubdor.5190:

How is it fair to have 3 stones turn into 1 charge, though? I don’t understand.

Because the charges are even useable on level 80 items. It is the same price as before basically, you can mainly choose here to waste your charges on low gear or wait for level 80 which most people will do.

Then I shall ask again. How is that fair?
Crystals are way harder to obtain than stones. Can you imagine the outcry when they would simply state: “Listen, guys, we’re gonna go ahead and remove the Transmutation Stones completely. You’ll now only have access to the Crystals, which you can buy from the gem store!”

That is exactly what is happening now. Now, I will admit that we don’t know yet how we get these charges. Maybe we’ll get one charge upon map completion instead of three stones. Then that is a serious nerf, and is just a “subtle” push for people to buy more charges on the gem store.

Just that there is almost none who would waste charges on low level alts. Some people used it on low level chars becase you could find so many stones, they basically become useless since most valueable gear come after 80.

Wrong. There are many people who buy armor skins for low level alts. Just because you don’t doesn’t mean no one does. Not everyone is a power leveller. A lot of people buy clothes for characters who are at a low level based on appearances alone. Someone who has done so who has a low level character in reskinned armor is at a gigantic disadvantage here.

Can someone please just explain how any of this makes more sense than simply implementing the wardrobe system for town clothes as well as armor? Or how losing two-thirds of the item transmutations that I paid money for makes sense? Or how no one took a second to think that maybe these massive, sweeping changes you have literally sprung on us out of nowhere just might make a lot of people really, really angry? No? Awesome, lovely community driven thing you have going here. Obviously “community driven” means you ignore the community entirely. I am so angry right now I literally think I have go punch something to keep from breaking down trying to understand how any of this is a good idea at all.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Just because I have a lot of stones doesn’t mean I want to lose a full 1/3 of them. That’s ridiculous. If I have 180 stones, I expect to be able to use them to get 30 different outfit updates for my alts. Now, with the conversion rates I’m only getting 10 full outfit changes. This is crazy. People with leveling alts like to be able to change and upgrade their looks. Now we will get less. This was pointless and unnecessary. It’s just an avenue for people to run out sooner and buy more from the store than they would have before.

Yes, my point exactly. Some people, like myself, can have upwards of 20 alts at various levels, most of whom have a set outfit long before they even get close to level 80.

I have been keeping up with the Feature Pack updates with earnest. Most of the changes, I like. I am looking forward to see how some of these changes affect my experience, especially the changes to sigils, runes, and critical damage. But I feel like some of them should have been brought forward to the community first, and that we should have been given the chance to voice our opinions, especially on sweeping alterations like dyes and wardrobes.

I don’t personally like the idea that my stockpiled trasmutation stones are now only worth one of these new “transmutation charges” for every three stones. It certainly doesn’t take me three of these stones (most of which I paid real, actual money for) to transmute a lower level item now. I feel, personally, like I am being robbed here. If anything, transmutation stones should be the ones on a 1:1 ratio, while crystals should be worth more (for example, 1:3, or better yet the equivalent amount that it takes to transmute a level 80 item with this new system), as they previously were required only for level 80 gear.

Also, in the update regarding the wardrobe, I don’t feel like everything was explained correctly. If I have bought the same skin for multiple characters (which I know I have, an example being two pairs of tier 3 sylvari cultural gloves at 12g a pop, or some gem store skins, like the two sets of Phalanx that I paid full price for), will I be refunded for that, since I can now use that skin on any character? How will this affect cultural armor? And town clothes? What the devil do you mean by “some basic clothing items that are no longer available for purchase will be converted into endless tonics”? Which “basic items”? Are we still going to have specific town clothes outfits for each of our characters, or will town clothes be removed completely and replaced with these “endless tonics”? Why not simply have a “town clothes” section in the wardrobe? That, to me, makes more sense.

I also don’t agree with unidentified dyes being removed as loot drops. The drop rate for dyes is already rather low. Removing them as drops entirely will drive up already ridiculous prices. Currently a player will pay 15g or more for black dye, while some, like the Flame and Frost exclusives, sit at over 100g (I’m looking at you, deep glacial sky) and make dyes even less accessible to new players. Especially since it takes so long to actually make money in this game without buying gems and converting them to gold (the rate for which is also abysmal). I also think that if we have the same dye unlocked on multiple characters, we should receive that dye, especially if it’s one that’s rare quality and probably the least likely to pop out of one of the unidentified ones you plan to give us. And while we’re on that subject, how about some economy changes, like increasing the payout for events to more than a handful of coppers?

Another thing I don’t like is the trait points being reworked and starting at a later level, but I feel that’s been addressed in other threads, and I will leave it out of this one.