Showing Posts For Monagan.6925:
I was going to read this thread in depth, but then noticed that within two posts, we were referring to Anika Sarkeesian as some sort of “leading expert” on the problems with video games and….I stopped reading after that.
This is where you should have paused for a moment, thought about what you just wrote, and stopped writing your reply. You just literally said you didn’t read more than the first two posts, then went on to “analyse” (wrongly) the types of people that are posting in this thread. If you don’t actually read a thread, your reply will contribute nothing to it. You’re just stroking your own preconceptions. Even if I ignore the fact that my first post was pretty well researched by admittedly lax scientific standards your classification of people in this thread is nonsensical, and your other points have been made several times before. You may as well not have posted at all.
Also, @ Akame.1073:
There’s literally no way for this to not sound rude, but I don’t think there is any point for me to argue with you.
In fact, this thread’s pretty much done. Everything at this point’s just bickering. I’ll try and refrain from posting any further.
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Maybe just maybe a talk can do more to someone view of the world, by increasing his knowledge & thus making him more aware of his decisions than limiting ppl the right to chose.
While the gist of your post about letting people choose what to wear is sound, may I interject there and say that no, most likely just talking to someone and “increasing his knowledge” will not change their views? Changing someone’s held beliefs gets more and more difficult the longer they have held them. You usually will not be able to make even a dent in it. Which is one of the reasons you shouldn’t argue on the internet in hopes of convincing a lot of people – you won’t.
This argument…makes no sense. There’s no logic in this at all.
As a male with a nice build, you want to flaunt it. That’s only natural. In particular to pixelated avatars, people spend good effort combining colors combinations, designs and accessories that often are just covered up by armor.
Actually, I don’t want to flaunt it if it doesn’t fit my character. I don’t want a scantily clad guardian, or thief. In fact I spend a great deal of time on my outfits to make them look the characters. It’s not always easy.
I never said male characters shouldn’t also have a choice of sexy armor. I said the majority of armor choices for both character genders should be nonsexy. Unless it’s some sort of sexy game.
I am a woman. I am a female gamer. I take huge exception to the pedestal you’ve built for yourself. Get down. We can take care of ourselves. Are you stuck in the 18th century?
I want more skimpy armor! I want my character to look nice and pretty. I don’t want her trussed up like a nun. I don’t want her looking like she lives in an igloo. (not that there’s anything wrong with living in an igloo).
Give me dresses, show skin, make it sexy, pretty and lots of areas to dye different colors so we can be creative.
Give us all the S’s. Skimpy, Sexy, Sassy, Skitteny, Snazzy, Stylish, Saucy, Spunky.
But do not give us prudish.
Oh my. I guess this is what you call third wave feminism? Women saying “We can take care of ourselves, no need to stand up for our rights”? Hogwash. If you want to dress like a kitten (and I’m using that word deliberately because it’s mere existence denotes a double standard in how women who dress sexy are treated), by all means. But don’t claim anyone who points out that women get objectified is being full of themselves. Don’t pretend being a woman and a gamer somehow makes you the authority in what women want in games. It does not. It makes you the authority of what you want in games. If you prefer to believe that the majority of male gamers regard you as an equal in terms of skill and “cred” (They don’t), and that wearing revealing armor is some sort of female empowerment, that is your right. But please refrain from barging into conversations and accusing people who tell scientifically proven facts that they are being arrogant, merely because you happen to disagree.
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Second Quote by Lenneth
“It’s. A. Game.
People play games to escape reality, in one form or another. "
Sorry to barge in there, but might I suggest that there might be some women out there who are playing games to escape from the reality of being objectified?
(had to use Quotation marks because apparently this forum doesn’t support multiple quotes)
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Right, so you freely admit to not bothering to read up the rest of this thread before launching an attack on me, yet you still think your point stands?
Actually, don’t bother replying – I seriously doubt you bothered to read this post anyway.
Call me a fool again, and I WILL report you.
I actually read all your responses before typing my first one, and I found it somewhat amusing how you started off with saying something foolish, then backpedaled immediately by pretending you were trying to make a counterpoint so something OP never said. I also notice how you keep getting hostile for no reason. But hey, keep on truckin’ on
I’m sorry, but a very small part of the population wants to see men in skimpy armor while a very large part of the population wants to see women in it. It’s just how it is. It means if they make the effort to balance the genders it’s ultimately going to equate to more concealing armors all around to compensate for the men, which is going to mean less revealing armors overall for women.
I think the argument for more skimpy male clothing is silly as well. I wouldn’t want to play a guardian in a plate thong. That means I have to consider women might not enjoy having to do that either. That is the problem here. It’s not “there’s not enough sexy armor for men”, it’s “women don’t like being forced to wear sexy armor”.
Strange how my female friends don’t seem to have a problem with the skimpy armour in this game. Guess they’re just normal human beings rather than pseudo-intellectuals.
Well, if being pseudo-intellectual means I use actual instead of anecdotal evidence then you may call me that. Unfortunately your friends are not a representative sample of the gaming community. Good thing I’ve come along for the ride and am about to lavish you with some pretentious but comparatively well researched information. Unless you are too busy feeling self-satisfied, but when do I get the chance to use data I just researched in a post here? NEVER! Lucky me. Here goes.
Beforehand I apologize for only adhering loosely to academic standards, but I think the exact formalities can be neglected in a forum post.
The majority of women does take offense to the skimpy clothing choices in games (Yee 2008, p. 92). It’s a symptom of the male-centered gaming culture (Fullerton 2008, p. 139f.) that only furthers women’s reluctance to engage in games. They’re considered foreign bodies by the largely male (Yee 2008, p. 85f.) communities and have to justify their existence, are constantly propositioned or not taken seriously (Yee 2008, p. 93).
Is this going to change anytime soon? Probably not. Only 11.5% of the gaming industry in the US are female, the majority of which works in marketing or human resources. When it comes to programmers, it’s only 5% women. That’s because it’s a very stressful job in which women aren’t taken seriously, not that they’d care because women generally aren’t enthusiastic enough about games – which they would be, if more women were working on them (Fullerton 2008, p. 139f.)
And it’s not as if women only care about “pink” games or the Sims, and getting them interested into MMOs is a futile task to begin with. Women share the majority of motivations when it comes to gaming, and the ones that DO differ can be explained by the higher average age in female gamers. It’s game design, not game mechanics, that could interest more women (Yee 2008, p. 86).
So there you have it. Women don’t like the skimpy clothes. In fact presentation is a large factor in keeping women out of games.
Now for the less well researched part about Guild Wars 2 itself: The game has some problems with the armor design. Not to step on any toes but a lot of it just looks dreadful. Medium armor is all trenchcoats. Heavy armor is all metal skirts. I’m exaggerating, but there is a pattern there. The revealing armor can make that even worse: I’ve had real issues finding a “kitten” looking armor for my female sylvari because what little leather armor I like usually only looks good on male characters – like the level 80 exotic drop armor. The heck happened there for the female version? It’s terrible.
I’m not saying revealing armor is bad, period. I do quite enjoy the more revealing tier 3 cultural armor on my female Norn. Not just because it’s sexy (just because I know it’s an issue doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy it) but because it fits a barbarian looking warrior with a huge sword.
Personally, while there are some shady areas, when it comes to skimpy armor for females, Guild Wars 2 isn’t all that bad. I’m actually more concerned with how they are either boring (trenchcoats) or ridiculous (burning gloves and train shoulderpads) and there’s seems to be a distinct lack of solid “cool” looking armor. Or maybe that’s just my taste. By the way, if anyone actually makes it this far into my post, congratulations. You might be the only one.
TL;DR: While it can be an issue I’d rather see AN put in more, better looking and more diverse armor choices rather than trying to fix the few existing skimpy ones.
Now if you excuse me. I have to renew my subscription to several feminist magazines, go to some bra-burnings and eat my muesli.
//edit: Silly me! I forgot to include my source material:
-Fullerton, Tracy et al. 2008. “Getting girls into the game: Towards a ‘Virtuous
Cycle’” in “Beyond Barbie and Mortal Kombat– new Perspectives on Gender and
Gaming”. Published by Yasmin B. Kafai et al. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT
Press.
-Yee, Nick. 2008. “Maps of Digital Desires: Exploring the Topography of Gender
and Play in Online Games” in “Beyond Barbie and Mortal Kombat– new Perspectives on Gender and Gaming”. Published by Yasmin B. Kafai et al. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT
Press.
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I picked Bear and I got a female Bear Shaman help me out at one point in one of the final missions.
However, I have not done that on a character that has not picked Bear so I can’t really tell if that’s why she showed up, or if she always does, even to non-Norns.
Sorry this is over a week late, but that bear shaman always shows up. I recognized her on my silvari because she is part of one of the early Norn missions (I think defending the mysts choice) that I had done on another character and, like many other NPCs from the early questlines, makes an appearance towards the end.
Tbh it probably has something to do with how artificially husky the voice sounds. If it weren’t so artificial it would probably sound better for light builds / Ele/Thief types.
I agree on it sounding artificial, which is more an issue with how stilted the female Norn VA is. If they were more organically stereotypical, like the overly cheerful, quirky Sylvari females, it’d still be rather unfitting for characters that aren’t, as you put it “husky”. I’d also rather my Sylvari thief didn’t lay on the glee so thickly, but I’m trying to be realistic.
It’s not unusual that dance is loathed by everyone.
It’s not unusual it’s no fun to anyone.
I’m exaggerating, but I’d have preferred the Human dance, or most other dances, to be honest. Maybe we’ll get a dance studio in the future, har har dy har.
On a related note, what’s up with all the huffing and puffing while dancing? It sounds like my character is having a stroke.
I’m not sure I understand the people in this thread that are complaining that the female Norn voice doesn’t suit their character. You cannot possibly expect the devs to record oodles of additional dialogue just so you can make a character that doesn’t suit the stereotype. Norn women are generally strong, tall and butch. If you want to play a character that goes against this norm you have to live with the fact that not everyone can be accommodated for and what we have right now fits the race and the lore best.
I’d be in the same situation if I wanted to play a butch sounding human, or Sylvari, or an Asura that isn’t quirky. And besides – the game already imposes a character onto you in the cutscenes. You have little to no say in it whatsoever, and for the character the game displays you as the voice is fitting. I’d say the fact that your feminine, slender norn teenager acts like a strong, fierce warrior in the cutscenes would be as much as a dealbreaker as her voice.
Now the quality of the norn voice acting can be pretty dead. Sometimes it’s fine. Sometimes it’s alright. Sometimes it’s no good at all. The warrior shouts have been mentioned, I was taken aback by how terribly woody they are compared to the rest. I’ve resorted to using signets now. The dialogue has some definite flaws as well.
So what I want to say is, the voice is fine as a standard voice, and I’d rather they improve the preexisting dialogue before adding more.