Guild Wars 2

Logged in today, got a letter stating I had been given GWAMM title by mistake. To correct the issue they revoked my unearned HoM titles/rewards.

Ok. Good. I only bothered with the first 30 points, anyway.

Problem is it took my earned rewards with it. Namely the achievement points, titles, and my ability to get any skins/pets I didn’t already have in the wardrobe.

All the skins I had in the wardrobe stayed in the wardrobe, but I when I go back to the HoM with my portal stone to get skins or capture the pets. They are gone.

Anyone else having this issue/know how to fix it?

I completely agree. It seems each side is really just trying to base entire arguments off of what is available and there really isn’t a lot to go off of. My hope would be in the future, we have an event or back-story, something, that really fills in the personality gaps. I’d have loved to put this whole thing off another month and have Evon be a main force in say, the up coming Jubilee, being a rich and influential man(charr), he’d easily have box seats for whatever it is the queen is doing and be a perfect intro to his basic motivations outside the business world (If he has any). We would have a bit more to go off of, maybe a beginning to the rivalry between the candidates or some such thing.

Though I don’t have my PhD yet. I’m going to be starting college to try to get qualified to write the kind of stuff we’re arguing over for a living. Its the lore that I love, and I want to be able to bring a world to life enough that I have guys like us debating fantasy politics for a few days.

Anyway, as I said, it was good to discuss with you and I look forward to it in the future. Maybe next time we can both have a nuclear stockpile of hard facts at our disposal, and then we can really get into it.

’Til then, take care.

Honestly, and I know this sounds like the typical internet #$%-pull (Ex: “I have a PhD in [insert whatever we’re arguing about]”), I was going to type up a summary list of points and counter points to your previous post. That said, I’ve finally remembered why I stated I was not going to respond to my original post. Despite whatever list I had planned, I feel as though your door-stopper of a post has advanced your argument absolutely nowhere, and as snobby as this sounds, I really don’t want to put forth the effort to respond in full.

So as the time of reckoning draws closer, and the amount these posts matter means less and less as it is obvious neither of us is making any difference in the polls and you and I have gained absolutely no ground in convincing one another to “convert” to either of our respective views. (Though the final statement of your last post makes it all too obvious you’ve decided, it doesn’t matter if I have gained ground or not.)
I’ve decided to put this debate to a conclusion.

Well I suppose, as the only other person involved, the fact that I’m not going to respond to this anymore is clear enough, but I figured I might as well try to end it with at least a little formality.

Whatever the outcome of the election, I’ve enjoyed the mental stimulation having someone to debate against has provided and I’m sure, knowing myself, we’ll be doing this again sometime soon. Until then, I thank you for your time and effort. It’s been fun discussing with you again.

What upsets me the most about this whole thing is that Kiel has no credentials and no skills in the area to which she is being elected.
There’s no logic behind electing Kiel, and then they pull the “but Evon is evil” card. Name one thing he has actually done that is “evil”.
If you want Thaumnova thats fine, if not, then why are you voting against good content and a better candidate? Its ridiculous.

Once again, I will give A-net credit where its due. You really gave us a true election.

draxynnic.3719:

You’re thinking too much in terms of binary states: “will make everything better for EVERYBODY!” versus “pushing the people of Lion’s Arch into open rebellion”. There’s a middle ground, namely “making things worse for everybody while filling his own pocket without it being SO bad that people are willing to risk their lives over it.”

Evon’s too smart to push things hard enough to provoke a revolt, but he’s certainly smart enough to, and hasn’t shown the morals that would prevent him from*, making backroom deals through the years that allow him to get away with stuff that he can’t get away with now.

Ok so I’ve quoted the only part of this that’s anywhere even near worth discussing, as the tinfoil hat conspiracy was merely a covering of bases, and of course I’ve been thinking in binary statements when all you give me are these simplistic doomsday scenarios where Evon ruins Lion’s Arch. For Evon’s “shadiness” to be bad enough not to vote for him it would have to be bad enough for people to rebel. Why? Because the only way he can line his pockets the way you are so convinced he will would be to, for example: destroy all other trade in a trade city, tax the people to hell, prevent the council from doing anything about it, you know, things that when looked at in their basic forms look a lot like what led to Revolutionary War.

That statement aside: We still have no evidence that he will or that he won’t.

Obviously the only way to justify Kiel is to turn to some “Evon will do nothing but evil or shady scoundrel dealings” conspiracy. I have already stated he is for all intent and purposes Lawful Neutral, any argument to the contrary better have some better evidence than you have given me, because I see nothing wrong with his business dealings or his moral character thus far, I have yet to see any of his “moral” character besides his impeccable sense for the economy and good business.

Despite your enumerated list of things wrong with a theory that I myself dismissed last post as conjecture at best, and was only using it as a crappy doomsday example of what “could go horribly wrong with Kiel” like I needed something else besides her inexperience in every arena the candidates should be fighting in. (As well as the fact, to be totally honest I had a number of things wrong with that list as well, but it would just be more conjecture)

On that same string, you have failed to answer any of my previous questions of Kiel’s, competence when it comes to any kind of administration or trade relations. Unless I see some rational evidence behind any of your reasoning instead of poor attempts to dismantle mine, I’m going to have to dismiss your entire argument.

Once again I find what should be a political debate, has burned itself down to “I think he’s a scoundrel, so he doesn’t get my vote.” which in all honesty is just sad. I’m not saying Evon doesn’t have the potential for evil, I’m just saying that his possibility for good far exceeds Kiel’s on a level of raw potential and his permanent game content is something that I want. Those combined factors alone are enough for me to take the risk he “might be bad” over Kiel who “will be good” but until I have some evidence otherwise totally incompetent in the areas that matter most.

draxynnic.3719:

I think you’re underestimating how murky politics can be. It’s not going to be a case of Gnashblade standing up immediately and saying “I want to have a total monopoly!”. It’d be a series of you-scratch-my-back-I’ll-scratch-yours deals, Evon voting for something another councilor wants now so that that councilor votes for something Evon wants later, all the while solidifying his hold on the market.

As for this dingleberry about Kiel being stupid or in it with the bad guys… cite your reasoning please? So far, the claims I’ve seen on that basis have been based on people having missed most of what actually happened during the Secret of Southsun content. Admittedly, ArenaNet did make it very easy to miss, which is something their writer said they were going to do better in previous releases, but the fact remains it’s usually a misunderstanding of the content.

First off, I think you underestimate both my grasp on the concepts we’re discussing as well as the grasp of the other council members. The fact that he wasn’t going to march into the council chambers yelling for total domination was a foregone conclusion. To the point that I am honestly wondering why you brought it up.

I already stated that if he somehow managed to corrupt the entire council, knowingly or unknowingly, through bribery, intimidation, black mail, etc etc that it would force the citizens into rebellion for basic goods and services. However the council members are not idiots. They won’t allow one member to stranglehold their city, so if there are already safeguards in place then shouldn’t we be less worried about the election of Evon and more about the other members already on the council? Honestly if Evon can bring the whole council over a barrel that easily then what good are they anyway? I still see no counter argument as to why we automatically assume he’ll go directly to evil. Nothing he has done is evil, only good business. You’re construing inherently neutral concepts and making them look bad for your own purposes.

As for the second part, Kiel has no definitive leadership skills that I have seen in any of the dialogues I’ve been able to find. In addition, reading the letters from the previous content if E is Evon( as is briefly alluded to) and Scarlet is Ellen as is entirely possible then wouldn’t it make sense for Kiel to feign goodness, and put the blame for the previous council seats death on someone else to achieve her own ends? Conjecture aside. If not then she still failed to protect the previous council seat. That much is fact. On top of that she remains under-qualified, as I have stated repeatedly throughout the previous posts and as of yet has not been addressed. Honestly who would you want negotiating trade for an entire city? A seasoned head of an economic giant, or a would-be war hero who has yet to test her mettle in any arena besides physical combat, which by the way Evon is also incredibly skilled in. There is no reason to vote Kiel besides Thaumnova, and for those of us who want the logically better candidate sitting in the council chair, as well as the final piece to a story which meant a lot to those of us who played GW1, watching Kiel win(if she manages to win) will kill a little piece of me because honestly most of the reasons people are voting for Kiel are ignorant, under-thought crap, or questions of morality which in all honesty hold no water at all. I don’t blame you if you want Thaumnova, but Kiel is simply not whats best for the city, and voting for any reason besides Thaumnova is basically, as far as I can see it, ignorant or at best akin to voting your friend to a position they aren’t suited for because they’re your friend. I don’t want a morally superior choice if it isn’t going to make anything better. If Evon is “evil” then he is a necessary evil and I support him.

Also having read up on the lore bits I missed by being absent during the last month or so of Living story Kiel is obviously in it for herself even more than Gnashblade. Honestly she’s either totally incompetent or worse totally evil guarded by a thick bulwark of Obfuscating Stupidity. She’s literally one of the worst political candidates I’ve ever seen and yet she’s well liked.

Really you have a choice between a powerful candidate who can be either a force for good or evil, but has shown no signs of evil intent. Or the other candidate who is either a pawn, a fool, incompetent or a ruthless liar who cares only for her own goals. Where is her potential for good? Where is it stated that she would ever be a good leader or even have the knowledge or skills to be?

She doesn’t.

Arena Net I salute you for giving us a true political election. Complete with the uninformed masses ruining everything for everyone else.

You have my sincerest envy.

While that may be true, when the council is a group of people who, at the very least, are also in it for profit, they aren’t going to agree with his plan to bring all of Lion’s Arch over a barrel unless they are gaining something out of it. Then the entire council is corrupt and at that point the city itself will rebel. The point is since that, in all actuality will not happen, Evon is still a good choice for the council.

What I keep hearing about is his potential to do evil, but no one acknowledges his greater potential for good. Power and success are inherently neutral. Since we have seen no indication of his so called “dark intentions” for monopoly and ransom of the city’s trade already then why are we giving up a good candidate for a lesser one?

draxynnic.3719:

Mr Agony.1632:

What harm could he do by being on the council? Oooh he might use his economically successful business to bring more trade into an economically-dependent port city? The scoundrel!

Your assumption here is that he’d use his business to benefit Lion’s Arch, not the other way around. Being on the Captain’s Council would give him the opportunity to attempt to push through legislation that grants him a legal monopoly or otherwise makes it untenable for anyone to effectively compete with him. Once he has that monopoly, he has the opportunity to bend every citizen of Lion’s Arch that needs to trade over a barrel, raking in the coin at the expense of everyone else.

Think of the anti-monopoly suits that were made against Microsoft a decade or so ago, and then ask yourself how tenable it would be to keep Microsoft under control if Bill Gates controlled one-eightth of the Senate. There’s a reason most democracies require that people in office divest themselves of any investments that might represent a conflict of interest in their ministerial responsibilities, and LA doesn’t have such safeguards. If Evon was to be voted into office, the only thing stopping him from using his seat to benefit his own business at the expense of everyone else’s is the opposition of other members of the Council.

And given what we see in the candidates’ trials, he doesn’t have the moral center that Kiel has to prevent such behaviour. It’s possible that he’d see salvage rights as one thing and abuse of power to benefit his business as another, but at the moment we have nothing to reassure us that he wouldn’t use his position to build an unassailable monopoly.

Well since this post is only in one place now I’m going to break my original statement of no responses this once. Because I feel this post was covered in my original post but I may need to clear it up a bit:

In order:

1: He already has a basic monopoly if you haven’t noticed branches of his business in every city, many outposts including Pact outposts in Orr and the fact that all player trade runs through his auction houses. So whats the harm in granting him the ability and obvious incentive to benefit the city’s trade since its mostly his trade to begin with? Granted this doesn’t cover all merchants but do you honestly expect the council to let him do that? They’re pirates. They’re in it for a profit somewhere and if they let him take it all then what good are they? He’s being elected to council, not president. In addition, he’d negotiate good trade with other cities and Zephyr Sanctum because he’s already got people in the former and has more economic experience to benefit the latter. Kiel could abuse her council seat as well if so inclined. The only reason people worry about Evon is that if he wanted to abuse his power he’s both connected and intelligent enough to do so to some effect if not entirely. Kiel, as far as I’m concerned, doesn’t have the spine or brains to pull it off herself.

You want honesty from me? If Evon Gnashblade is as intelligent and as large a philanthropist as Bill Gates then sure he can have an eighth of the Senate, no complaints. Not like its getting better on its own and sometimes you just hit the Godzilla Threshold.

He’s a charr and a ruthlessly successful business man. I addressed his lack of a definitive moral center in the post above. We have no assurance that Kiel isn’t a pawn in a larger power bid by Magnus, or that she can handle the pressure or that she can lead or that she’s even able to understand the concepts that ruling a city like Lion’s Arch would entail. I would prefer to have experience and economic administrative success, not a democratic pirate remake of The Princess Diaries. With Magnus the Bloody Handed as Julie Andrews.

Hello. I want to state up front that I will not respond to this post. I have already been in many debates in-game with players and I’m not starting here. I will be posting copies of this post in every major Cutthroat Politics thread. This view is the facts as I see them, and my earnest plea to get you to vote for Evon Gnashblade, nothing more, nothing less. If you bother to read this at all I thank you for your time. So here goes:

I’m here to ask you all to vote for Evon. Not just because I am a GW1 vet and a lore-nerd and I want to see the Abbadon fractal because to me it represents the missing scene in a lore series which has been the highlight of a few great years of my gaming life, but because it makes the most logical sense, politically and I want to see a better Lion’s Arch. A stronger more connected Lion’s Arch. Most of the quibbling about who to vote for is morality and not wanting to vote for the villain. If you genuinely want the Thaumnova Reactor fractal, that’s fine, but voting Kiel for any other reason makes no logical sense.

I’m going to get this out of the way here. THE SHORT TERM REWARDS DO NOT MATTER. They will be gone in 4 weeks and no one will remember “how awesome the 1 gold I saved on travel was”. What truly matters is the long term reward Anet has stated on this forum and elsewhere I believe that they will not make both fractals. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying unintentionally or otherwise to get your vote.
Now on to the issue of “morality”: Evon Gnashblade is not a villain. To put this in simplistic D&D alignment terms he is dark gray Lawful Neutral at worst. He is a business man. He is a CHARR, business man. He is not a scoundrel or a cheat. He does his business deals fairly, but ruthlessly. As any successful business man should. He takes risks. He is best for Lion’s Arch, Which I feel I must remind people, is a city founded by pirates, run by former pirates, and based on the idea of fair judgment based on one’s actions. Did we really forget what they’re being elected for: A trade agreement? Who would be the best choice to set up a trade agreement that benefits Lion’s Arch and Zephyr Sanctum? The leader of a multi-racial, continent-spanning trade business, or an inspector turned war hero with no real political or business experience? Evon has done nothing wrong. So what if he overheard the council seat was going up for election based on a trade agreement? The fact that wasn’t common knowledge just makes Kiel and Magni look worse, not better. Kiel is a pawn. She is only joining the council at all to help Magni. While I agree Magni the Bloody-Handed is awesome, Kiel is not a leader. She is a good person, and honest and dependable person, but she has almost no experience being a leader or making tough decisions for the people. She is a war hero. That’s it. Evon Gnashblade runs a successful business that spans the continent as well as racial boundaries. What harm could he do by being on the council? Oooh he might use his economically successful business to bring more trade into an economically-dependent port city? The scoundrel! Is he susceptible to corruption? Isn’t every politician? Is he promising rewards to his voters? Doesn’t every politician? (Kiel included, or did we forget Thaumnova and reduced travel costs?) What I notice people seem to think is that Kiel, despite doing similar things and, once again, being a pawn in a larger bid for council consolidation by Magni, (Yes, electing your friends to help you stay head of something is bad but it’s politically sound and I don’t blame him.) is morally superior. The truth is: she isn’t. If ignorance constitutes moral superiority then I am a sinner and I wish to remain so.

What I guess I’m trying to say with all of this is even if you’re only voting Kiel for the “morality” that doing so makes no sense. If you’re voting for Kiel for the politics it makes no logical sense. If you want Thaumnova, then vote Kiel. I agree with you on that and I wish we could have both, but please don’t condemn those of us who want the Abbadon Fractal to lose it over misguided morality and bad politics. Evon may look like a “bad guy” but that doesn’t mean he’s the bad guy. Please reconsider your vote. I’m asking as a player. Don’t believe that crap about A-Net favoring Evon. Kiel isn’t an underdog story, it seems from my perspective to be a lot of misguided people voting for what they are being led to believe is a right, just or losing cause. It isn’t.
Vote for Evon Gnashblade. Vote for a better Lion’s Arch, and a story worth finishing.
Thank you.