Guild Wars 2

makes spvp pretty much unplayable.

on the upside it gave me incentive to give in and buy MoP which is much better than expected, so thanks for that at least.

I really don’t care which one they choose, either balance thiefs or fix stealth.

It’s been enough time now…

yeah nice new bug. thumbs up.

totally justified, I am playing mostly mesmer atm.

however the thief nerfs are ridiculous. Thief and guardian need rebalancing quickly, the patch notes are quite insulting in that regard to be honest.

thieves werent nerfed at all.

just something to add to the patchnotes to soothe the masses. they need severe rebalancing asap, it’s quite ridiculous how people even refute that.

mesmers are kitten annoying to fight, I am currently mostly playing mesmer and I am happy to see some nerfs. Surely more will follow, looking forward to it.

thieves got away with a slap on the wrist though. they need some severe nerfs quickly.

didnt read the OPs apologist wall of text.

thiefs are OP. severe nerfs needed. that’s all.

didnt read the OP apologist post.

thiefs are OP. severe nerfs needed. thats all.

I mean I expected things to be bad but THIS bad?

Every single matchup across all EU realms horribly broken beyond repair? That’s just sad.

But Arenanet said night capping is a great feature and everyone should be able to experience “the same content” even when it’s just the empty and desolated WvW zones + PvEing the gates part of the experience at nighttime.

Any player expecting mass scale pvp to be anything other than a complete failure in any game ever should recognize it’s his own fault for having unrealistic expectations. I have been waiting 15 years. I am absolutely sure now beyond any doubt – it will never happen.

contrary to popular belief a widespread field of “nerf” cries does not signal great balance but horribly messed up balance way beyond just one class falling out of line.

thief and guardian need to be balanced asap. They require significant adjustments. Mesmers need to be balanced as well but this is one class where they have to be careful with since a lot of adversity players face is because of how much mesmers profit from clueless enemies and the general annoyance of fighting a mesmer.

The game is not well balanced, which is to be expected with so many different more or less viable builds for all professions and so early after release.

While some professions are more obvious than others because of how easy they are to play, resulting in a lot of players doing very well with one prof when they wouldnt with another (thief comes to mind) it’s just really a mess in general.

people like to claim that if the nerf cries are directed at a lot of classes simultaneously it must be balanced. That’s not true at all though, it just means balance is screwed up way beyond just one class overshadowing all others.
to be fair, almost all MMOs with a class based design were horribly balanced in pvp, so gw2 is not an exception or stands out particularly badly.

but if you feel better about yourself with it, please continue to put the blame on the feelings of entitlement of the general playerbase.

the only games that will ever truly be balanced are shooters and RTS where every player is exactly the same (except unlockables ofc). A sad but definite truth.

L2P issue….. w/e.
Found it for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJPL3_uEyGM

HILARIOUS. thanks for posting, mate.

An interesting, yet very disheartening read. The base for WvW in GW2 is so much better than other recent attempts, yet it seems the devs dont want to capitalize on it… sad.

Let’s take a look at the official statement.

First of all:

This is simply saying that we will not be changing WvW based on some players’ idea of off time hours.

It’s not “some players” idea. It’s the VAST MAJORITY of all players, like literally 95% of all gamers who will ever play this game – or more even. Because that’s the number (I have that on good authority of my buttocks) of players in this game being forced to sleep at night.

I have never played a game with region-specific servers(EU-servers) where more than maybe 5% of the player numbers that were parsable during the day, were active during night. Never.

And this

How we’ve came to this conclusion is that no player’s time is more valuable than another

is just an insult really. Because in reality playing at night is MULTIPLE times more valuable than being just one more meaningless guy during the day-time stalemates. The battle is decided during the night/early morning, little by little day after day…well, night after night rather.

Everyone has different off peak hours for whatever reason.

True, and during the day those peak hours will overlap enough to guarantee a waiting queue on most servers at almost all times. Peak hours are a non-issue – the issue is that almost nobody has their peak hours during the night time, at least on european servers.
It’s just a fact, I have been playing MMOs for a long time, in other games you could easily parse the population at any given time by simple /who commands.
While this is not possible to do in GW2 (why, btw?) there is no reason to believe this game is any different.

Players should not be punished or unable to experience and view the same content as everyone else because they play at a different time.

But they are. If they play during the day they are being punished greatly. Their efforts during the day dont matter, it’s a constant back and forth. The battle is decided during night when one server just steamrolls the other 2.
And content wise this argument does not even make sense since nighttime-players DO NOT EXPERIENCE THE SAME CONTENT anyway. Playing at night makes you unable to experience the real WvW in this game by default. All you do is fight NPCs and initiate fierce battles to the death with the mighty keep gate. It’s quite insulting to try and sell all the players adversely affected by night capping for fools with wishy-wash reasons to justify a horribly broken system.

They too are paying customers.

Interesting, so in order to maximise profit and consumer satisfaction, alienating the majority of consumers to satisfy a minority is the typical M.O. for most corporations now? Must be new.

This is not saying […]

So what is this saying other than – better make use of the free transfers while you can, find one of the few “good” 24/7 servers – by now everyone knows their names.
Further aggravating the issue for all other servers.

The sharks are a great idea. The real problem is underwater PvP isn’t fun. Even though it’s the best under water combat I’ve seen in a MMORPG, I still want to keep it out if PvP?

This is exactly it. The underwater combat in GW2 is about 10 times more fun than any other game – ever.

It’s a huge steaming pile of crap though that is not fun in the most remote meaning of the word fun.

It’s a little unlucky for GH and AR to be matched with a much more populated server like Desolation, there is no way you can possibly win this matchup because you will be outnumbered greatly during the night which is the deciciding factor in WvW in this game unfortunately.

I was matched with Desolation a couple of times when they were still in the top bracket, they couldnt defend against our superior tactics and quality army though.

They do have huge player numbers that should put them in the top tier bracket, however they are just not that good and not well organized. So smaller servers will have to continue to fight them until Desolation has steamrolled enough by bruteforcing with much bigger armies and nightcapping so they are put back into the top bracket – where they will be quickly put in place by the real top servers to be matched up again with much smaller servers – a vicious cycle. Sorry for you guys! :-D

what does the mesmer have to do with that thief instagibbing you?

Mojo "Mr Magoo: I respect that you don’t like MOBAs but the fact remains that it is a widely played genre that many people enjoy. It would work well in GW2 as a PvPvE option for players."

Absolutely, I recognize they are popular. Justin Bieber is popular. Trashy reality TV is popular. There are games, records, tv shows to satisfy those needs though. No reason to let them contaminate other entertainment products made specifically for people with different taste :-P

I wouldnt worry about people not trying it.

This third party addon gives a measurable advantage and if more people use it, there is no way to play without disadvantage without using mods like this.

It makes using grenades so much better – agreed. Because it makes it easier. Kind of sad to say Anet is allowing things like this, then again I would not exactly call it surprising.

You forgot to add that you are mainly playing thief guardian and mesmer which is why your conscience is extra extra clear.

I think mobas are horrible,possibly the worst genre in modern gaming. I’d rather play a truck driver simulator. So no, not missing that crap at all

And so it begins

Either install third party tools altering the gameplay or be at a disadvantage…sigh. Really hoped it wouldnt happen in this game with Arenanets e-sport ambitions and the overall competetiveness of the game. A sad thing, very sad.

Fred Fargone.3127:

For anyone considering this, I would like to point out something:

If you think, that EU servers are less laggy than american servers would be for EU players, think again. EU servers are probably hosted in the same room than the American servers. (Judging from the “Server time” being GMT -8 or something (don’t wanna do math atm) for Desolation) so it doesn’t actually make any difference whether you’re on EU or American server.

EU servers are located in Frankfurt/Germany

Unfortunately there is no way to really check latency ingame, its not very feasible there will not be any delay though. Which in my opinion is a bad thing seeing how the timings are so tight in this game.

Rawdll.2915:

Presence is a aspect in wvw if you cant keep it thats not any1’s fault but your own.

‘your’ fault… whose fault exactly?

Like his, personally? His fault to be forced to sleep at night for whatever reason? Or his guilds fault, a bunch of people banding together for various reasons that connect all of them, like similar online times? (and unfortunately most of them being productive workerbees in their underpaid 9-5 jobs and/or fathers/mothers) Or “your fault” as in entirety of the server he is playing on that happens by pure chance to not have a lot of players able to play videogames during nighttime?

If his server is getting night capped his only fault is not having transferred servers yet.

No, this issue is not going to magically solve itself. The way it’s going right now is how it will be going. For every player joining the underdog there is at least one joining the sunnier side…

This is what happened before in other games and I actually cannot think of one exception. And it did not exactly do great things for the WvW-esque game modes in those games…..

I wouldn’t say its a server imbalance, I think you read it wrong.
It’s obvious FA has more queueing up than your server. That is all the graphs show.
It appears your server isn’t interested in WvW (player to player). Tell the PvE’s to get out there and stop running dungeon loops.

The fault with this system lies in what the reality looks like. Instead of fighting the uphill battle people will just transfer over to the steamrolling side and enjoy themselves. The only hope would be to have players interested in WvW transfer to the server and reinforce the existing population. If that doesnt happen it will always be that uphill battle.

Yes, it can feel great to prevail against the odds but there have been many games in the past to show us what reality actually looks like. If there is an imbalance in large scale PvP, people will flock towards the side with the advantage, further exacerbating the problem.
Tight battles are amazingly fun. But if the battle is lopsided it’s much more fun (and much more rewarding in terms of actual virtual rewards you get for putting so much time into the game) to be on the side steamrolling the enemy instead of getting rolled.

Lucubration.8361:

There are actual exploits related to server transfer and WvW; recruiting off-peak players for your server is not one of them.

WvW is not about ‘keeping it even’. The team with the best strategy, organization, diplomacy, and tenacity should win, and it should be an inspiration for others to do improve.

What exactly is inspiring about that? lol

I fully agree with this statement

he team with the best strategy, organization, diplomacy, and tenacity should win, and it should be an inspiration for others to do improve

right now the only organization needed is make sure you steamroll the entire map during nighttime. GG

Defend it all you want, it’s broken. And while WvW really is not about keeping it even, if you want to see what great imbalances, in whatever capacity(mostly just great population disparities) do to WvW-esque game modes just look at, oh I dont know, maybe almost every single other game ever attempting a game mode like this or large scale PvP in general…

WvW is uneven enough without night capping.

But why is playing during the day par for the course? I mean, what about the working population, or rather, just the people who have a [i]limited[/] amount of playtime at their disposal? E.g. – a huge chunk of the player demographic will be able to play only for a few hours in the evening. Their ‘blind spot’ is even bigger than just the night. For some it might be some hours in the morning or even only every other odd day.
Point being, that being able to play daily and for long stretches of time (up to all day long) is already a deviation from the norm. Essentially, the Vizunah players are beating you with your own weapons. If you cry injustice on them playing at night, you seem to forget this, you know?
What if there was some kind of mechanism, that would alleviate your situation? Could the situation be called fair then?
I’d say no. It would just be in your favor…food for thought maybe.

That’S not really a valid argument at all. And based on a common misconception about the issue at hand, which is assuming this is a personal issue of a specific player and when he gets to have his cake and eat it too. It’s not.

It’s not about his guild and his friends either. It’s not about people working unpleasant hours and being only able to play at night and it’s not about nationality.

This is about the reality of how games like this are played. While you are right, that many people have very small windows of opportunity to get some free gaming time in their schedules, this is not at all an issue because of the healthy server populations, mostly.

During the day you will have hundreds of players trying to get into WvW at all times, obviously it’s a steady increase little by little from the early morning hours up to the sudden surge at prime time. But there will be enough people queuing at all times of the day. The day. During night literally 9.5 out of 10 people HAVE to sleep.

Unless they don’t ofc, which is the case on only a handful of servers where people migrate to because by now everyone knows the WvW matches are being decided by who has the bigger force at night, thus accentuating the problem even more.

Seeing how having the bigger force at night in the top EU bracket for example means 50+ on VS and not even half that from the other 2 servers combined it’s not hard to see why the system does not work.

This is not an issue of being “more determined” or putting more time into the game, something that rightfully should players give an advantage, albeit not a disproportionate one.
The issue is you dont even have to put more time into the game to prevail, you dont have to apply the better strategy against your opponent to win, just make sure you put the time you do have in at – for most people – prohibitively late/early hours, where the vast majority of most servers is forced to sleep wether they want it or not. It’s broken. Once the novelty of the game has worn off, there is no reason at all to join a match 7 days in progress already, 7 days to go, that has been decided within the first two nights already.

I dont think the kids are the problem really. The kids are raiding the zones at night.

It’s a very adult problem having to sleep at night. Edited by moderator: Edited, since the previous message does not exist any more; thus, the last part of this is unnecessary

Do you really needed such explanation? Isnt it obvious? why do you keep defending something that is clearly flawed?

He benefits from it. That’s why.

If looking at the score as the goal for your fight – then you’ll never receive ‘balance’ matchup as there’ll always be some who can field more players at given time than you.

nobody expects perfectly balanced matches. It’s not a necessity thanks to the 3 faction WvW. In fact during daytime almost all matchups are very balanced across all servers.

The only difference in who wins the fight is nighttime capping by one server while the other 2 are asleep. leading to a mass exodus to that server.
Arenanet needs to fix it quickly before things are broken beyond repair once server transfers are closed.

Unless ANet caves to the people who want WvW to be sPvP and/or removes the 24/7 aspect of the game.
In which case I think they’ll loose many players who came here for the WvW game.

They will not lose but KEEP players playing WvW because the enjoyment is retained. Not everyone who came for the WvW enjoys the horribly broken system that is in place. You are giving all the WvW players who enjoy real fights a bad name. Stop it.

In fact I would say it’s a minority (maybe a majority of the population on some servers french or otherwise ;-)
Maybe they lose some of the 24/7 no lifers and US/EU timezone emigrants who are PvEing the zone during nighttime, sure. They are the root of the problem though. What a nice solution then! :-)

night time capping is bogus, because genghis khan didn’t fight aussies and his army didn’t disappear when they went to sleep.

Well they were having a war.

We are playing a videogame.

Reality check needed.

If you want WvW to resemble war I am fully in support of it. Please Arenat start by introducing realistic troop movements. Before any fighting starts let us travel a few RL days towards the enemy forces. And please perma death as as well!!

2) What about all those people that work during your precious primetime? they dont have the right to play? they dont count as much as your school/office timetables?

WvW is about fighting each other. The oh-so-poor “night time players” do not have any opposition anyway, so where is the fun for them to do WvW at night?? Exactly there is none, so there is no harm done in preventing night caps.

The nighties can still join the zone, enjoy the jumping puzzles and vistas and whatever. If they want to participate in WvW maybe they should try to join at a time when there is actual WvW happening (during roughly 18 hours of the day).
If your job prevents that – tough luck.

Think of all the waiters, shop atendants, service workers in general that work in your primetime and come home at 23:00 and expect to play all night their game because they dont enter work untill 15:00. We punish them? they count less? dont be ridiculous.

Oh yeah, you’re a good samaritan. LOL as if you care about those guys one tiny bit. But nice tool to push your agenda, for sure ;-)

The amount of people in that situation is tiny.

So because a literal handful of people needs to be allowed to potentially have a fierce battle to the death with the reinforced gate – we all know how much fun that is – the 98% of a servers population that does not play at night should in turn be punished for having a 9-5 job and other responsibilities that require sleeping at night, by losing 14 day matches during the first night or two of the match cycle?
That’s nonsensical.

According to your logic maybe those shop attendants coming home at 23:00 should be able to go shopping during nighttime as well? So have some other poor attendants work 23-7 to satisfy the needs of roughly 2customers/hour leading to higher costs of operation, in turn leading to higher cost to the 99% of the customers shopping during the day?

You are being ridiculous. But you know that.

If you want to be succesfull in WvW in this game you better LEARN 2 PLAY THE GAME! Quit your job, give away your child, say kitten you to your responsibilities.
then proceed to succeed at the gamez

The game is 3 weeks old. mesmers rely on their enemies ineptness more than other classes. That’s why they are doing so well now.

I should know, I was inept :-)

After playing a mesmer myself I am now prepared to face them. They rely more than other class on the element of surprise and unorganized opponents or better yet incompetent opponents. They are sokittensquishy when you lock them down though.

I have to partially disagree with this thread.

First of all, Mesmers are a l2p issue. I am sorry, dont mean to offend anyone but I can tell you this from personal experience. I used to get frustrated so I rolled a mesmer and played around a while to get a feeling for the class, the various abilities and animations and their timings.

Know your enemy – it really does work.

Now, thief was actually my first character created , I have since abandoned her though. It’s too easy to faceroll to victory on a thief, that is true but potential power is not really completely out of balance to other professions. It’s just easier to achieve decent potential on the class, fixes may be difficult to implement.

Guardians are mostly fine and I agree their survivability seems a little high for the amount of group utility and still decent dps they provide. Some adjustments needed.

But the only classes that can really complain are elementalist and necromancers, every other class is FINE! If you come here and cry about the injustices in class balancing make sure you are maining a necromancer or elementalist otherwise you have no merit whatsoever

so because you are losing ground when you are sleeping arenanet should implement it that you dont lose as much points because of that?

No. What Arenanet should look at and implement is a way to ensure a smooth experience for literally 95% + of the the entire player base. He may be asleep at night but so is almost the entire rest of the server.

i also work nightshifts, i also am more awake at night then during daytime, so i should be punished because i do…

It’s not about punishing you. It’s about the greater good. The overwhelming majority of players has a busy life outside the game, with a steady job, a family, responsibilities that prohibit nolifing it out during night time.

Literally 98% of a servers population is asleep during the off hours 2AM-6AM at least. Well, most anyway.

It sucks if you’re in the 2% but for the greater good, the other 98%, the game should put mechanics into place that provide an enjoyable experience to MOST players.

Because this IS just a game. Remember that. If you have fun fighting and beating the gates and PvEing it out that’s just sad. Listen, I have been called a nolifer myself at times, I just never lost my ability of objective and rational thinking.

WvW is almost impossible to get right, and if things continue the way they have been going so far it will be dead in this game before too long – just like any other game that ever attempted this kind of mass scale pvp and failed (except DAoC which was just as bad but people were more forgiving due to the novelty)

You can buy gold with real money so instead of hoping for less moneysinks you better prepare yourself for even harsher money sinks in the future to come.

That’s what happens when people want to play MMOs without subscription fees.