Guild Wars 2

Aquin.3192:

Hey! I recognize the name in that screenshot…

The only way I’m doing that dmg to you is if you let me go into stealth. That’s right I need to be close to you and hit you to go into stealth to kill you. If I miss that attack I’m in trouble.

Keep an eye out for the stealth hit inbound and dont let it happen and I’m out of luck.

I only have so many dodges… you can regain initiative faster than i can dodge. when it comes to culling i have to guess when to dodge sometimes.. other wise I never see the thief on the screen before it is ready to disappear again. I do not let thiefs disappear easily.. I’m saying Anet either needs to fix the culling issue or fix thiefs ability to do so much condition damage. I guess if it is not fixed by the next update then I will just have to figure out the build and post it on the forums and eventually it will build up to enough of a problem then it will have to be fixed like thiefs stun capabilities were in the past updates..
I really like thiefs, but there are a few things that need to be fixed about them. and the culling is the biggest one i have run into. Even when i play thief, I use a glass cannon and rarely stealth for other peoples sake, but the biggest issue i ran into with a GS thief build was culling/burst from other thiefs…. 2nd biggest was AOE damage from eles, so yes, i know thiefs need stealth to survive, but the culling/condition combo will be a huge issue in the future if it is not fixed now.

Jumper.9482:

MyFe.1398:

and NO as a necro you can not counter EVERY single thief stealth skill. it is impossible. 2 fears and 1 daze vs 3/4 stealths that can be spammed much quicker than my skills can recharge..

2 stealths. Unless he steals from another thief.
Shadow Refuge (fear him out of the area or just nuke it and laugh)
Or Hide In Shadows (the heal). Three seconds of that on cooldown is more than enough time for your bleeds to do the job. Especially if you reflected any of his own by tanking caltrops purposefully.
Now listen closely, I’m gonna tell you a little secret. There’s this skill on the offhand dagger not many new/casual players know about. It’s called Cloak and Dagger and eats HALF of the thief’s initiative bar regardless of if he hits or not. Dodge at least one and you win, pretty much.

I know there are more than 2 skills that give thief steal, I have played thief to see all their skills… you obviously don’t know how thief stealth works..

Jumper.9482:

MyFe.1398:

and NO as a necro you can not counter EVERY single thief stealth skill. it is impossible. 2 fears and 1 daze vs 3/4 stealths that can be spammed much quicker than my skills can recharge..

2 stealths. Unless he steals from another thief.
Shadow Refuge (fear him out of the area or just nuke it and laugh)
Or Hide In Shadows (the heal). Three seconds of that on cooldown is more than enough time for your bleeds to do the job. Especially if you reflected any of his own by tanking caltrops purposefully.
Now listen closely, I’m gonna tell you a little secret. There’s this skill on the offhand dagger not many new/casual players know about. It’s called Cloak and Dagger and eats HALF of the thief’s initiative bar regardless of if he hits or not. Dodge at least one and you win, pretty much.

I have played vs many thiefs and i know how easy it is to kill most, it is hardly a laughing matter for them. when you face a good thief then let me know how you lost to them…

Vile.5678:

If you only ran into 2 or 3 Thieves who do this, don’t you think it’s a bit silly to be calling it out as OP already and wanting it to be nerfed?

I’m saying it is OP in a good players hands. I have run into many thiefs who try to do something similiar to this build and they all die easy.
But once the build is widly used it will be way overpowered. Im just saying I have run into 2/3 thiefs who could beat me every time 1v1 with this build. The culling or condition damage needs to be fixed..

Juan Ignacio.8903:

are u just standing on the caltrops?

No Juan. you are very good, I know it is very hard to kill you in spvp. but no i am not just standing on the caltrops, i am dodging and consuming conditions while he shoots me at a distance with his pistol and then disappears.

Jumper.9482:

You do realize you are playing a necro right?
And you can counter every single one of his stealth casts with fears/daze?
And yes, you can transfer your condi’s by skillshotting it if you do so happen to screw up and let him stealth.
Not only that, but that particular thief build can only clear 1 condi per 3 seconds in stealth outside of their heal and shadow return (easy interrupt and long cooldown, respectively). Necros should have 4+ condi’s running. He won’t even shake half of them off with a normal stealth.

yes i know. but I can’t change all of my skills based on this one thief build that i’ve only vsed 3 competent opponents. normally as necro i can bring down any class 1v1, especially easy are melee thiefs or noob condition thiefs who stay visible long enough for me to cast fear and stay close enough while invisible for me to spread conditions. However vs this thief build I can do nothing in the long run… I may get lucky and hit them with a fear and a bleed and poison, but then they are invisible for a long time and only reappear when they have full health and my heal is still recharging… and NO as a necro you can not counter EVERY single thief stealth skill. it is impossible. 2 fears and 1 daze vs 3/4 stealths that can be spammed much quicker than my skills can recharge..

I have only run into 2 or 3 thiefs who play this build, but each time i faced them i was not able to get their health below 50% without them disappearing only to reappear shortly after with full health. I could do nothing to heal myself enough or transfer my conditions to them since they were invisible most of the time…

I am not a noob, I can beat most thieves easily but vs this particular thief build there is nothing i can do when a thief plays it well. The only times i beat them is when i was paired with a good engineer or an elementalist.
Solutions needed- fix thief culling issue or reduce thiefs condition damage ability.

Zatria.5783:

Just my opinion here, but all of these changes that have to be made to fight a different class is further proof this class needs further refinement. I’m glad you have the patience and micromanagement in order to pull it off enough of to have fun.

You sir, are the minority.

Ya all the changes in the build take a while to get used to, but i think to play any build really well you need to be able to adjust on the fly. however the TPvP no longer allows this… I have found that the build i posted here is still the strongest for the majority of situations you will face in tourneys. the only thing you really need to know is- since you can not give your minions more life when facing a bunker ele you will need to be ready to retreat from his damage temporarily (about 10 secs) while you minion skills recharge.

Also I don’t think i mentioned this, but to use your minions effectively, you need to lead them into battle most times… especially the bone minions if you want your clouds to hit(and whoever they hit when they explode adds up to more healing for you so you get longer survivability if you need to retreat.)

brickforlife.1364:

This build sounds as reliable as “world’s best cup of coffee” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUPDRnUWeBA

It sounds great in theory but a good player will rip through your minions in 2 seconds and be straight to you. Besides, minions can’t help you if you get backstabbed by a thief.

Haha,
yes I know what you mean, but it is not theory. it is tested by me. in pvp thiefs are only a problem when you are 2v1(but then you are usually dead in 25 secs in any 2v1 vs good players) and any pvp player that focuses on your minions in this build will have to deal with a ton of poison clouds+your extra conditions….

ThCakeIsALie.5306:

MyFe.1398:

@TheCakeIsALie- I started with a ranger in pve- switched to guardian and got to level 40- i found both ranger and guardian lacking but i had an idea that guardian/necro would work perfect together. guardian can do decent damage but they can also buff/heal a necro minion army – so you would end up with an awesome guardian leading an army of undead into battle with a necro throwing down conditions… I never found an awesome guardian to play with, but this MM build can do way more than a guardian/ranger can by himself so i stuck with it.. and I am sick of seeing so many complaints about minions on the forums. I know they don’t attack a lot of times, but if you learn what they do do and you keep an eye on them during battle you can still make them useful enough to win most 1v1s.

You didn’t answer my question. I asked if you were or weren’t trying to make a pure minion master build?

Oh, and this build is for sPvP? Then plz do us a favor and make the title say it that way. PvE and PvP are two different ball fields and I don’t run minions in either, but I do run different builds depending on if it’s PvP or PvE.

I’m not sure what you mean by a pure minion master build. I just wanted to make a build that works and that’s what I got.
If you would read my post through you will see that the build works GREAT for PVE, i’ve already stated that in my other post as well. I am on the last mission in the game and am about to go solo zhaitan right now.

@TheCakeIsALie- I started with a ranger in pve- switched to guardian and got to level 40- i found both ranger and guardian lacking but i had an idea that guardian/necro would work perfect together. guardian can do decent damage but they can also buff/heal a necro minion army – so you would end up with an awesome guardian leading an army of undead into battle with a necro throwing down conditions… I never found an awesome guardian to play with, but this MM build can do way more than a guardian/ranger can by himself so i stuck with it.. and I am sick of seeing so many complaints about minions on the forums. I know they don’t attack a lot of times, but if you learn what they do do and you keep an eye on them during battle you can still make them useful enough to win most 1v1s.

@TheCakeIsALie – just copy and past the link into your browser. This build works well for both pve and pvp. if you read through my post you will see how you will need to make minor changes depending on your environment.

@Leadfoot- in regular spvp i can get away without a stun breaker with this build 90% of the time. you have deathshroud which can eat a bit of damage+ it gives you retaliation and a fear to deter an enemy.(DS might actually work as a stun break sometimes. not sure if it is a bug or what, but i can often move when i switch to it.) If you are facing 2v1 a lot or if you are facing a warrior with a lot of lock downs then you will need to change bone minions(if there is no thief) or shadow fiend(if you are going to possibly face a thief) to flesh worm. it gives you a stun break as long as it is alive and it does good damage. But the damage often is not as important as the stun break in that situation. In WvW you will need flesh worm all the time, i wont destroy it in WVW even if i have to run half way across the map. it will still save you from a lot of surprise attacks half way across the map.

You have good condition removal too. staff 4 removes all conditions and transfers them to the enemy. also since you are being healed constantly and can focus more on kiting/dodging you will not feel the effects of a few conditions.

@Luke- Read through the post and try the build. The only thing i think you are right about it the blood fiend being weak healing, but it also does consistent damage so it works really well with this build. The only situation where consume conditions might be a better option is vs an invisible condition thief. Your minions never get to attack him so you have no healing without consuming your conditions…

Possible improvements/substitute- i have been trying this out since the update- replace shadow fiend with signet of the locust. it gives +25% movement speed! this frees up your daggers second hand since you no longer need the WH #5 skill! It definitely makes the build a lot faster so you can cap more points or back up allies more often. but at the same time it cuts damage output down significantly. I will update when i have more experience with this setup.

I have tried bloodthirst and i think it is about equal. if you are 1v1 more then it is better, but if you are vs more than one opponent and need to heal allies or you encounter AOE damage and you need to heal your minions then “transfusion” is better. I have found that transfusion is better in more situations and makes you more sustainable. Also BloodThirst does not effect minions life transfer to you, so it is only really noticed when you use your dagger. i think that one is better if you want to run a life transfer build with minions.

the only thing i am wondering about now is signet of the locust. if you replace it with shadow fiend- it gives you and your bone fiend/flesh golem +25% movement speed. It will let them hit moving targets easier and and it makes the build more mobile. I do not know if it is a fair trade off for the healing/damage that shadow fiend offers…

Warriors- They are usually easy to counter 1v1. but i have run into a few that will lock you down with a stun and then do a lot of damage. If your DS is not 100% ready then you are probably going to die. I have found this situation mostly in tournaments and the best solution to it is to switch either bone fiends or shadow minion with the Worm! Just lay the worm down and if you get locked down use its 2nd ability to get free. however i have found in tourneys in this situation you will most likely be 2v1 for some reason and you will not survive much longer, but at least you are a distraction for so the rest of your team should be able to win…

Rangers- your weakness. they have a lot of health like you and apply decent damage- fight them from long distance and let your minions engage while you pretend to be a ranger with your staff.. i often end up on the ground vs a good ranger, but at then necros do more damage while down so i win.

Strengths of this build- it is versatile. the minions do great melee damage while you offer strong condition damage
Weaknesses of this build- it is weak verse ranged attacks since it depends 90% on the minions to heal you and they have a hard time reaching ranged enemies before they disappear or run off.

Hi all,
I have been playing Necro as my main Character for the past 2 months. I have won several free tournaments with him and have about an 80% winning streak in spvp hot join. I am also on the PVE “kill Zaihtan” story mission but haven’t tried it yet since my brother said it is bugged.(is it still???) I have had not a problem in any of the pve areas. Even Orr which i have seen many necromancers complain about…
I typically don’t believe in sharing my best builds. If every one knows my build and uses it then it will become quickly countered and I will no longer enjoy the advantage I have when I decide to PvP(or it may become nerfed…) but since i will no longer have much time to play GW2, and because all I usually see on the necro forums is complaining about how weak us necros are, I decided to share my build so other necros can enjoy the game without complaining so much!

1st off- there are 3 viable ways to play necromancer- one is to be a conditionmancer, two a minionmancer, three a power/lifesteal daggermancer. or the 4th-DeathShroudMancer- which just tries to see how long you can stay alive….

I have tried a little of the 1st and 3rd builds and quickly found i do not like them, they both lack versatility. A conditionmancer ALWAYS relies on another teamate vs any competent pvp opponent/s. and a dagger/lifesteal is great 1v1 but it is no good vs more than 1 opponent at a time.

BUILD- ok on to the good stuff-
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBmQDbkQrVvUzWjePBI945rneSR3gDpYXpB;ToABXUNZaS0ktJXTymWiMWY3B

This build works great and is very versatile. Yes I know that minion AI is not the best when esp. compared to mesmer illusions, but it is good enough to beat mesmers 1v1..

How To Use It-
-This build depends on minions for healing while they also do a lot of direct melee damage. you do condition damage/and regen heal(staff 1) the majority of the time until you switch to dagger. Dagger will grant might which will bring your condition damage up and your actual dagger damage.
-bone fiend is great since it does 2x hit from ranged- thus healing you consistently
-blood fiend does decent damage and can also explode upon command creating a poison cloud.
-The dagger is usually only needed to finish an opponent off. ( especially if they are invisible or if they are at 25% health and you want to throw in a quick surprise burst)
-Minions will move as fast as you do. When you use the horn #5 skill all or your minions will speed up, making it easier for them to hit a fast moving target.
-this build works coherently. You can do almost anything a conditionmacer can do, while your minions can do as much damage as any thief can do if attacking
-some times you will need to lead your minions into the thick of battle in order to make them useful but at the same time you can usually get out of the mess while your minions heal and/or you use death shroud.
-PVE change the deathmagic master trait from 11 to 10. you will rarely need a long duration of poison to kill pve mobs, what you will need is extra healing and absorption. minions with more life help you do this.

Remember to keep an eye on your bone fiend and blood fiend when fighting vs thiefs and guardians! bone minions/blood fiend/jagged horror when they die can stack 60 seconds of poison on an enemy very fast and that is very effective vs a glass cannon***

PVP-
-when you are fighting a thief- lay your marks while kiting/try to keep them in front of you since they deal less damage if they are in front of you. lay staff skill “2” 2 times and then blow-up your bone minions and blood fiend while kiting/rolling towards them. this will lure the thief to them when they explode. Usually after this the thief will be dead, unless they are good they will be running away until they heal, by which time you will be ready for round 2.(All the awesome thiefs i have faced just avoid me after the first encounter unless they have backup and its 2v1:()

-Guardians- They drop fast when you use all of your staff skills/minions skills at the same time. Just make sure your bone minions are close to them when they explode. if the guardian is doing a lot of AOE damage like spinning his sword then just blow your minions right away to be sure you get the extra damage before they die. Some times you will need to wait until the bone minions recharge before you can get them. Guardians require a very syncopated spike damage to bring down.

Eles- In the tourneys I have mostly encountered bunker eles. They are fast. do lots of AOE damage and heal a bunch. So i have learned vs Eles you will want to change your GM deathmagic trait. instead of depending on poison you will need to depend on your minions surviving in order to heal you and do damage while you kite. when vs an ele change the GM DM(30 point) trait to 10 and do not blow up your minions. all you need to do then is kite and lay your marks and you will usually win without needing to switch to dagger..

Please DO NOT GET RID OF REANIMATOR! I really like the skill, it only needs 2 changes-

1. Switch it with the 25 point minor trait since it is really only useful with the top death magic traits like exploding in a poison cloud or removing boons.

2. Make it live longer and give it better AI.

I really like thiefs, their play style makes the game exciting. however there are a few things that need to be fixed.

Stealth is good- but a thief should not be able to bleed me to death while i can do nothing to them. This can be fixed by making thiefs bleed skills cost more initiative. if they have to use a lot of initiative to cause conditions then they will not be able to spend so much time in stealth which would make it fair..

Culling- if this bug can’t be fixed then at least make it so they can’t go into stealth as fast as they do to… if they had skills that gave stealth for longer, that would be fine. its just not fair that they can continuously pop in and out of it with 1-2 secs of real visibility. they should have to use it a lot more sparingly.

other than that i really like how they can do a ton of burst damage. if they couldn’t do that then there would be no point in having them around. when compared to a warrior with heavy armor and the damage they can do.

I am on a mac mini so I am using an external RAZER mouse. So i Am not sure your computer will work the same, but make sure you are changing the actual speed of your mouse in your computers settings, not just the in game settings.

Having the same Problem. Thanks!

I had this problem the first time i tried it on Mac, I fixed it by changing the mouse “tracking speed” settings in the “System Preferences”.