Showing Posts For PrivateSoftcore.6291:
I totally agree with you PrivateSoftcore.6291 that they are shoving content at us every two weeks to makes us forget about the gameplay flaws. I think major is a bit harsh. But yea, there are flaws for sure. I have to disagree about the need for verticle progression though.
Why do people keep playing starcraft? I think they do because there is a semi complex game there that challenges the mind. Now the people that are playing that game are playing against other people and I know its hard to make an AI as smart as a person but I believe their resources would be betters spent at least trying to do that instead of creating unpolished living story and gear tiers.
Yes, but SC2 is a brilliant game and the designers spend nearly all of their resources polishing the gameplay. Imagine if the core mechanics were trash but blizzard released new units or maps every 2 weeks instead of fixing the core mechanics, bugs and imbalances. Doubt very many people would keep playing.
Now now, you are getting a little ahead of you. Who said only one model can work? That’s the problem here. I have little doubt VP works. Horizontal Progression MMO would work too. It’s just that maybe it’d work at a smaller scale? Profitable doesn’t require you to get all the money, all the MMO players in the world. It only requires you to get more money than it costs you to operate.
I’m not disagreeing with that. That’s why I play this game. I got tired of other models and this one seemed exciting (mostly the gameplay though, not necessarily the horizontal progression).
I just think this game goes too one extreme of the spectrum and would be better served to find its way more towards the center.
Think about AN’s business model for a second though – it actually hurts them to have players continue playing the game without buying gems. In a perfect world, they constantly turn over new players who buy the game, play it for a few months, then quit.
I think it’s cute that people condone the constant lack of originality in the video game creation market (outside of Indies).
“GW1 model cannot work today! Why? Nobody tried it and proved it worked, we got plenty of data that shows VP treadmill models work though.”
Right, let’s just spend decades polishing unoriginal copies. If we polish it enough, the shininess might attract some skritt.
Funny how people vote with their wallets, right? If people spend money on these games, it’s because they enjoy them. GW1 was out for more than enough time. GW2 has been out for more than enough time. People have voted with their wallets. This model does not work.
The minority who go against the mainstream models always pretend that their way is superior. It’s the same with COD haters. COD SUCKS MAN, THAT’S WHY IT SELLS SO MANY COPIES, RIGHT?
@PrivateSoftcore your almost there sir. And yep, your right. You only need enough levels to get you used to the mechanics of the game. 80 is too much. But its more tolerable than the recent things they have added because it doesnt take as long to achieve.
Now your probably not a game designer and you probably shouldnt be. It takes imagination and creativity. Im not one either and I dont believe I should be but its not hard for me to imagine a game that is fun to play without verticle progression. Imagine a game that were built around the invasions of the last content patch. Except the invasions dont just happen on random maps, and the enemies dont spawn in random locations. And they dont just stand there waiting for you to come along and kill them. They have a purpose, and theres a story behind them and that purpose. And there are consequences for not beating them other than not getting a reward.
If you can begin to picture that, and not think focus on the limitation and the reasons why it would be hard to do, then you are on your way to expanding your mind and starting to think out side the box your mind is currently in.
Lots of games are fun without vertical progression – for a few weeks. They are single player games that you beat and throw away only to pick up again a few years later when you are bored.
Very few games survive on mechanics alone – even COD, a game which is nearly 100% about gameplay, is forced to have a progression system in order to keep people interested.
Games like LoL are only able to remain profitable with constant evolution. New champions and a ladder system keep people playing the game. And that’s a game with very entertaining mechanics and gameplay which is easily repeatable.
Games like World of Tanks remain profitable only because they have a constant advancement grind, and that game has very entertaining mechanics and gameplay.
This game doesn’t have the mechanics and gameplay to survive on its own. Instead of improving the gameplay, they just shove new content down our throats to get you to forget about the major fundamental gameplay flaws.
I think it’s cute that people think the GW1 model is sustainable and profitable. There’s a reason AN can’t follow it and expect to stay in business.
Farming is a chore to some and isn’t fun. They try to avoid it as much possible.
In GW2 I’m thankful that farming isn’t the need-all-be-all to the game because if so it would be uninstalled quickly.
No kitten farming is a chore. Believe it or not, there can be a nice middle ground between forcing people to farm for years on end to advance and having no advancement at all.
That’s the reason WoW was so successful in vanilla, BC and WOTLK. It was the perfect mesh between casual and hardcore. Eventually casuals complained about the game becoming stale because they could not get epics without dedicating 3+ hours a few days a week to raiding, so Blizzard gave away epics. It ruined the game. I was in a major raiding guild while working a full time job as an attorney. I could get epics and raid the highest level dungeons while only playing 10-15 hours a week. It was a great compromise.
It doesn’t have to be EQ1 or a grindfest korean MMO, but it certainly shouldn’t be the stale stagnant game it is now.
Sure, and it is different – but that doesn’t mean you have to be 100% different. It throws away the core mechanic that makes MMOs successful. No vertical progression is laughably bad.
gw1 had no such stupid thing. But I guess you need a carrot to have fun.
6.5 million copies sold of a game that requires no subscription fees is supposed to be impressive? What’s a more important metric for a game like GW is how many people continue to play the game on a regular basis. This game has a very high turnover rate. That’s no secret.
I played GW1. I enjoyed it for a while until it inevitably became stale. GW1 had many many flaws which kept it from becoming a top of the line MMO. GW2 was supposed to expand on GW1 and become better than GW1. It’s actually worse.
It’s still a good enough game, but it does get extremely extremely stale after a short while.
If having no vertical progression is the way to go – why does this game even bother having leveling? Shouldn’t AN take it to the extreme and eliminate vertical progression all together? Do you really need to play 80 levels in order to become “prepared” for the exciting world of zero end game content?
My first run in a GW2 dungeon was through AC Path 3. First boss fight, everyone tells me stack in a corner on the other players. We burn the spider down in about 30 seconds with no real excitement. Just stand there and mash buttons.
We then proceed to kill the next boss, skip the third boss, sprint through trash mobs to the fourth “boss” (this one actually requires you to run around in circles, exciting!). Again run through trash mobs to the fifth “boss”, rush through that fight while ignoring all the trash mobs. Sprint to the final boss of the dungeon. Again everyone tells me to stack on the rest of the group, this time in front of a column. Boss comes up to us. We stand there for 30 seconds spamming skills, it dies without any hubbub.
I thought this game was supposed to be fun? I thought it was supposed to be skill based? I thought it was supposed to have dynamic combat? Standing in a corner stacked up, unable to see anything, while spamming skill buttons is not my idea of fun.
PvE in this game is laughably bad.
It is. It’s the core of MMOs. MMOs can’t survive on gameplay alone. They make sacrifices in gameplay and mechanics in order to be an MMO. The exchange is constant character progression. Right now GW2 has made sacrifices in its gameplay to be an MMO, but offers nothing in return. You get to the level cap and your progression for the most part completely ends. It’s a little silly.
Wasn’t gw2 suppose to innovate and be different than other mmos?
“If you hate mmos you want to check gw2” iirc was used in something called manifesto.
Sure, and it is different – but that doesn’t mean you have to be 100% different. It throws away the core mechanic that makes MMOs successful. No vertical progression is laughably bad.
Farm is fun, we get it.
It is. It’s the core of MMOs. MMOs can’t survive on gameplay alone. They make sacrifices in gameplay and mechanics in order to be an MMO. The exchange is constant character progression. Right now GW2 has made sacrifices in its gameplay to be an MMO, but offers nothing in return. You get to the level cap and your progression for the most part completely ends. It’s a little silly.
This is the result of having no “grind” or “treadmill”. You have to make your own fun. The game provides the tools, but offers no real incentive. The incentive has to be that the experience itself is fun. The moment running the dungeon for the 100th time becomes boring, you’ve lost PvE completely from the list of options of what to do. The moment WvW becomes boring to you, you’ve lost that completely from the list of options of what to do.
Grinds and treadmills will give you extra incentive to keep playing something that isn’t necessarily as fun as it used to be. If the gameplay itself was good enough to keep people interested for a very long time, this game wouldn’t have any leveling. However, that’s obviously not the case. You need advancement. That’s why there is a leveling period. It gives you incentive to keep playing your character even when certain tasks get boring.
Having no advancement post 80 will be the death of this game. There needs to be incentive to advance your character. As fun as PvE and PvP is in this game, it will get old if there is no “point” other than just enjoying the experience of completing the dungeon or pvp battle.
That’s not to say everything should be a grind, but to put up an arbitrary wall that says “the only advancement you get is leaderboards and cosmetic” will lead to people getting bored very quickly.
This is an MMO. You have to work to improve your character. Where is the kittening about having to level your character? Where is the kittening about having to obtain skill points to unlock your skills?
When you leveled your character, were you doing it because “gosh darn each one of these quests is just so fun, I can’t wait to see the next one!” or was it because you wanted to keep advancing your character?
Games get boring. You need carrots to keep you moving forward. End of story.